A Triple Time Rule Breaker (Bach Chorale Music Analysis)

A Triple Time Rule Breaker (Bach Chorale Music Analysis) - Inside the Mind of Bach

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Music Matters

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 74

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

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@GeorgeBletchly 2 жыл бұрын

Fascinating analysis and very eloquent playing, as usual.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

That’s most kind

@StephenB_LE9 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Gareth, Thanks again for discussing Bach - how he breaks the rules is a good way of learning "the rules". I also like Bach's ii-V-I s proving he was THE original Jazz musician!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

There’s more than a grain of truth in that!

@jayducharme 2 жыл бұрын

To paraphrase the old quote about stealing ideas: "It's not to break rules, but to break rules with genius."

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent

@rsablosky 2 жыл бұрын

In terms of the first three notes of the bass part, think about the words, "Weg, mein Herz" (the way, my heart). It makes a lot more sense to say "WEG, mein herz" than "weg, MEIN herz."

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

😀

@Benjybass 2 жыл бұрын

In my opinion, the 4th and 8th bars seem to be Bach's musical way of putting his "foot on the brake" at the end of the 2 phrases. The listener automatically knows that the end of the phrase has arrived. J.S. is known for doing this in many of his works, especially when he uses hemiolas.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely

@gwendolynkaren5933 2 жыл бұрын

Gee Benji you're a smart one.

@Benjybass 2 жыл бұрын

@@gwendolynkaren5933 Thanks! Bach is an excellent chauffeur and knows how to drive his audience safely through the hills and valleys of his compositions.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

@@Benjybass He certainly does

@AlessandroSistiMusic 2 жыл бұрын

2:43 Something I wonder is whether the melody did this hemiola rhythmic thing in the original version of the chorale that Bach had heard, or whether Bach modified the rhythm to make it this way. I know Bach wasn't afraid to alter the tunes to suit his purposes! I do agree that having that rhythm in the inner parts in the first phrase meshes well thematically with the same rhythm later-you are definitely on to something!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Certainly the rhythmic structure makes an impact on the piece.

@karlosed 2 жыл бұрын

Yes maestro, I have enjoyed this video very much, thanks a lot.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

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@Kurtlane 2 жыл бұрын

I can clearly see two phrases here. The first takes the first 5 bars, and the second -- the last 4 bars. This creates a strange symmetry-asymmetry in the piece. Very beautiful, subtle, and it makes the piece not chunky, not 4-bars, 4-bars...

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely

@jonasjohansen8287 2 жыл бұрын

Great content as always. 🎵 I’m studying music, and find this very useful. Especially the terminology!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

@carlstenger5893 2 жыл бұрын

Delightful video. Once again, Bach breaks rules that he (among others) established. It's not so much the rule breaking that bothers me so much as the fact that he always seems to have a good reason for having done so. I can remember breaking similar rules during my freshman year at university. Unfortunately, my only justification was that I wasn't paying close enough attention to what I was doing. Unfortunately, that explanation was not sufficient in the eyes of my professor. Thank you, Gareth, for another excellent lesson.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

It’s fascinating to see when and why Bach breaks the ‘rules’.

@NidusFormicarum 2 жыл бұрын

bar 4: I think there might be a third reason in that he wants the cadence to settle down a little bit. bar 9: He breaks another "rule": all four voices move in the same direction. But of course, when the third in the dominant falls to the fifth in the tonic, our ears peceive it as if it was going to the tonic scale degree instead.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Fair point

@Reino_X 2 жыл бұрын

I enjoy this series

@lornapenn-chester6867 2 жыл бұрын

Super helpful. Thank you! 👏❤️

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it’s helpful

@patrickcunningham618 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

A pleasure

@housethegrate6093 2 жыл бұрын

I love this channel. High level analysis.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

@bigpicturehero 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome as always. One nice to have: it would be great if you had the chords in the score, or better yet, the roman numerals of the chords. I could pick up on your meaning more quickly when you talk about progressions and modulations. In any case, thx!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Fair point.

@philipaggesen 2 жыл бұрын

Bach is a lot like oxygen - it never goes out of fashion!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely

@dnuma5852 2 жыл бұрын

oxygen is so last month, today its all about helium

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

😀

@randolphmitchell6851 2 жыл бұрын

I might have asked this before -- I am getting on!! -- but to what extent are the "rules" in Bach's time *descriptive* (we have determined after the fact that this is what composers did) vs *prescriptive* (authorities set out beforehand what comprised good voice leading)?

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

The ‘rules’ have mostly been formulated since based on what works best in the music of the masters. However there were conventions established, for example voice leading in figured bass

@CalebePriester 2 жыл бұрын

When I follow the rules my harmonies sound good, but somewhat boring, predictable, because I follow the guide lines on Tonal Harmony (the book), but Bach manages to give to each voice a nice melody even to the tenor and the alto, the inner voices. His chorals sound lively and mine doesn't. My harmonies sound like exercises lol There was this time when I saw Bach using 8-7-9-3 between the bass and tenor, he did not resolve the seventh and went to a second, but it sounded good! When I first started I did not use similar motion into a perfect fifth or octave between the bass and one of the inner voices, but after seeing that even Bach does that I started doing as well. He doesn't use similar motion between the bass and the soprano when going into a perfect fifth or octave, but he does use between the bass and some other inner voice. I guess it's ok to use similar motion between the bass and some inner voice when going to a perfect fifth or octave, but doing that with the bass and soprano is a no no.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Keep studying Bach. Know the rules but soak up the music.

@newmancomposer 2 жыл бұрын

(With my red pen ready) - The first two rules are easily fixed, with far better voice leading and harmony. (Have a look at the tenor line again. See if you think it can be improved, without changing any other parts). The rules are there because they just sound better!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

😀

@dinglebop9558 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

A pleasure. Thanks for your support

@dinglebop9558 2 жыл бұрын

@@MusicMattersGB :D

@martinbennett2228 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting. - A question: are harmony rules more tolerant of crossed parts and doubled thirds in contrapuntal writing? In this example I could not see how to avoid doubled thirds and parallel fifths or octaves, while sticking to the same progressions.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

There is greater tolerance when writing counterpoint than there is in 4 part chordal writing but parallels are worth avoiding.

@malcolmledger176 2 жыл бұрын

You forgot the leading note in the tenor in bar 8, which doesn`t rise because Bach liked a full chord at the end.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Not forgotten but your point is well made.

@CalebePriester 2 жыл бұрын

Guys, imagine how Heaven will be like! Bach will be there! We will be able to talk to him! Maybe even have some lessons with the guy! We will have eternity to talk about music and play! It will be so awesome, guys! I hope we all get to be there!

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Sounds amazing

@TheClem2leq 2 жыл бұрын

Great.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

@abagatelle 2 жыл бұрын

Re doubling major third: maybe in Bach's time the instrument he played on (organ, harpsichord?) wouldn't have emphasised the note so much? Whereas on a modern piano it's more noticeable?

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Possibly but I think it’s more about the balance of the chord.

@eriksatieofficiel 2 жыл бұрын

What was the purpose of these very short chorals?

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

I’m just giving the opening pair of phrases but these were like hymns that were sung in the Lutheran church. Bach re harmonised them with genius.

@andrewlord3398 2 жыл бұрын

Was it also worth pointing out the 5 bar first phrase followed by a more conventional 4 bar second phrase?

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely

@andrewlord3398 2 жыл бұрын

@@MusicMattersGB And going further - it feels like he pushes the boat out in all respects in the first phrase, only to provide security, more predictability and relief in the second phrase to the tension he has caused in the first.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

@@andrewlord3398 Yes. One frequently sees that kind of balance in his music.

@Lambretta_G 2 жыл бұрын

I don't really believe Bach was composing by thinking rules. Or even felt bad when he was breaking those rules. I think Bach (and other composers of that era) were composing by what sounded right to their ears, based on their taste. We (in the future) took what Bach composed, and translated it into rules statistically, for our baroque harmony exercises. For example, if Bach had tritones in 1% of his pieces, then a tritone is a "mistake". If he had doubled thirds on only 10-20% of his pieces, then its a "better avoid" rule, etc. That's just my theory ofc, I cant prove or disprove it. Composing with rules sounds exhausting, so I think Bach just didn't like what we today consider rules.

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

There’s plenty of truth in that argument. Bach was thoroughly schooled in the art of composition. That’s what gave him the freedom to write as brilliantly as he did. To him it was all second nature. At the end of the day, any composer works with what sounds best - it’s the end result that counts.

@Lambretta_G 2 жыл бұрын

@@MusicMattersGB I didn't even think that they also had music lessons as kids! I am very curious now: Do you happen to know what they were learning at the time as music? Apart from notation and the instrument of choice, were they taught harmony? if yes, was it with the same rules we have today? Our baroque rules today would be the contemporary rules of their day. Similarly how composition is being taught today with some rules. If Bach grew up learning the same rules he applied to his own compositions, then my assumption is wrong. Did he follow the baroque rules of today (contemporary of his time) or did he "create" them with his colleagues by evolving what they were taught as kids growing up?

@MusicMattersGB 2 жыл бұрын

Most of the theory has been retrospective in terms of observing what the great masters did but there were certainly rules of engagement re the figured bass for example.