Muslim (Hassanain Rajabali) gets owned by atheist Richard Carrier

Clip from a debate ("Does God not Exist? 2") between Hassanain Rajabali and Michael Corey (Theists) and Dan Barker and Richard Carrier (Atheists). Moderated by Riyaz Datoo.

[@bloodgazm8891]

Is it just me or do Muslims talk in circles? They tend to avoid answering any questions and it's fucking frustrating.

[@sirkoenigsegg9463]

+Jack DeJohnette Really now? Trying to teach us about what Taqqiya means? What are you sources, hateful atheist websites or the source of islam? Go on provide it.

[@Antonpreis]

+Sir Koenigsegg Read all Mr. Roberto's comments above - he quotes chapter and verse, and others have also quoted from the Quran, so it is written down for all to see.

[@sirkoenigsegg9463]

+Antonpreis Are you blind? there's only two comments above my first comment and none of them are from 'mr Roberto'.

[@Antonpreis]

+Sir Koenigsegg No, which is why I know that the issue you raised has been addressed in earlier posts. Try looking higher up under " He says---" posted by B Ali.

[@sirkoenigsegg9463]

+Antonpreis There are only 7 posts in this comment including this one, there is no ali b. I could print screen it but there's no way to show you it. What's your point anyway?

[@beerhangover4779]

"Who could say that 1400 years ago!!".."its been said 2500 years ago".."It doesn't matter lalalalalala I'm right you're wrong lalalalalala"

[@Mahadonation1]

hahaha, he said the quran throws out mythology but the hadith says crazy miracles of mohammed, u cannot convonce them they have been brainwashed, tricked, indoctrinated from birth. lalalala oh is that logic? my religion doesnt allow logic ur still wrong lalalala

[@Mahadonation1]

no they are intelligent but their minds are stuck, they are brainwashed from childhood, the brain is a powerful whichever way it goes, stubborn habits from childhood, doing what the whole family does. it is very very hard to break free

[@HellNoKamala]

Mahadonation1 Their intellect is much lower than you're giving them credit for, their being inbred and all.

[@adhidwiyana2723]

beer hangover made you too la la la la la lazy to think

[@wingsweep1]

MASOODKHAN RANA ....365 days in a year is a greco/roman kalender.......an a muslim year has much lesser days in a year.......was allah drunk when he sent this knowledge to mohamed......your socalled miracles from the koran are turning into hillarius blunders

[@nathanter7622]

The muslim guy is a VERY PERFECT EXAMPLE of why you should not believe in religion if you don't want to be ridiculed in the 21st century by people who have working brains

[@cheber5690]

But nobody ever explained that why this world was created hahaha

[@FM-dm8xj]

?

[@FenriZz]

@@cheber5690 whatchu mean

[@ottomann5294]

​@@FM-dm8xj why do you think that is a "WHO" that created the world?

[@chrisharper7945]

@@cheber5690 Its a rock.

[@batman-yz5fx]

Look at all the hijabis celebrating that there spaghetti monster is real

[@soph-o791]

Comment of the year

[@lexi2706]

that's truly hilarious

[@donbrogan3158]

Nice one mate, thanks a lot. Spat tea all over my pc laughing so hard at that...!haha! Classic.

[@dogsandyoga1743]

*their

[@Undisputed_King]

They have to justify wearing that thing somehow.

[@HarbingerOfTruth1]

"It doesn't matter"

[@ParadoxalGradientAnime]

+HarbingerOfTruth1 now what happens I will NEVER give up the fiiiiight. There is no way I will run away from aaaaaaall of my frights. Long as the voice inside me says go I will ALWAYS KEEP ON RUNNING

[@elonmusk8245]

FUCK ISLAM FOR SCIENCE'S SHAKE!

[@elonmusk8245]

@Ismael Barrera *fuck islam*

[@lexi2706]

you can't argue with stupid because they can't understand reason and critical thinking in the first place. there needs to be a foundation and it's not there.

[@muhammeds7199]

have you watched the whole debate? no...

[@elonmusk8245]

FUCK ISLAM FOR SCIENCE'S SHAKE!

[@shroudedgrove4679]

@@muhammeds7199 Ok "Muhammad"

[@ldioticnuzhen99]

@@muhammeds7199 mahamud

[@tiaan7032]

People clap because their views & beliefs are being reinforced. The single most important we as humans can do is engage with differing beliefs, scrutinize them objectively & make a logical deduction. If you are constantly surrounded by agreement, applause & like minded people it means you are in a bubble not the real world. Its comforting to surround ourselves with agreement i get that - but it only serves to reinforce what you already believe. This goes for us atheists as well, there is a branch of theism called intelligent design which puts forth certain scientifically derived assumptions - we need to deal with it not on face value but with merits (which weve done fortunately)

[@shroudedgrove4679]

Yes, to further embed ignorance. This is the echo chamber effect. It's an important part in any tribalistic formation of identity. And in the growth of ego. Confirmation bias and denial when faced with challenge to ones beliefs. It feels good believing in God for religious people, so they still want to believe. Regardless of the absence of any proof throughout the entirety of recorded history.

[@WhoThisMonkey]

Confirmation bias Check out the silly bitch at 1:23 abouts to clap, she's not even listening to what's being said, she just assumes the Muslims is right. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@KalimaShaktide]

The interesting part is all these people applauding NOT because they understand what is being talked about but because they need to support their own beliefs and the speaker and will applaud at anything the guy says because no matter what he is right and Allah is with him so better to applaud him t reinforce my own belief and make me feel better... Versus knowing that what Mohammed said about life coming from water (which is false by the way as water is only H2O and non of the other elements needed for life can come from Hydrogen and Oxygen alone) ...so Mohammed did just repeat what he read from previous texts just like this belief that life came from water. It is sad really when uneducated people reinforce their own lack of knowledge by patting themselves on the back to help support their delusions of reality.

[@tradehut2782]

+KalimaShaktide Very true

[@mrlozmoore]

great comment!!!

[@MA2520]

Your objection is absurd The quran says "we made through water everything that is alive" people from the beginning understood that it means that water is essential for life not that it is the only thing needed for life.

[@ricksanchez1527]

Water here means semen that muslim speaker is fabricating stuff

[@HiHi-ek1dd]

Bull crap, sorry.

[@SciencePlusComedyEquals]

I love how he completely avoids the question in the end, and then asks a question that is already settled in response.

[@alikermali]

bait and switch

[@dushyantchaudhry4654]

What did he even say... made no sense

[@davidkonevky7372]

Respect to that one guy clapping at carrier when everybody else was silent 👏👏👏

[@octoberemp]

Whenever they show the audience, it makes me sad...indoctrination should be illegal, all it creates is a wall to truth...and that, if anything, should be a sin...or in the real world, a crime...

[@octoberemp]

It just goes to show how ignorant and brain washed people are by religion...specifically islam. You have a room filled with Islamic woman who don't even understand what it is to be a free human being. Ive heard arguments of muslim woman saying how much they love "allah" and that westerners are horrible..etc..etc...but the fact is they are the most brainwashed group of people probably in the world. Its kind of like a slave ratting on another slave because they did something wrong...they don't even realize they are being exploited and abused...its just reality to them. Its sad.

[@octoberemp]

***** truth

[@eddiejamesknight]

+Matt I agree, if there was one clip to convince Muslims its bullshit its this one, it shows how the truth bombs are dodged.

[@cedrichartz6426]

Religions are all indoctrination you see

[@elonmusk8245]

FUCK ISLAM FOR SCIENCE'S SHAKE!

[@REDCAP32X]

And the jubilant crowd goes quiet

[@roshanbaggio]

Love the way the vociferous clapping just died down immediately. I hope Dr Carrier and his team brought along their own security detail though.

[@Kapzter]

What is ridiculous is the reaction from the crowd. In intellectual debates, one does not come in with sides (although you might have a favourite speaker, or hold a stance initially) but one comes in open to the possibility of the good argument to sway's one's stance. The way the islamic women were cheering was in the form of any cheerleader, to any point made by their side, irrespective of if it was a valid one. This can be seen by the lack of clapping from them when his claim is refuted.

[@shroudedgrove4679]

Tribalism. It's not about truth - it's only about supporting your tribe. Most Muslims around the world are ignorant of science and non Islamic history. This is deliberate. So when their chosen champion goes into battle with an infidel, they want to cheer their hero on lol

[@stevecinneide8183]

proof that Islam is false: it doesn't produce good hairstylists.

[@logerbad19]

his circular reasoning is astounding

[@marksmtih5806]

Richard: "Actually someone said that 2500 years ago" hahahahaha LOL pwnage was so epic!! The other dude was just like "no... no..." He probably will never use that stupid argument again! LMAO

[@bavinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn1092]

Where does it say that, plus the Quran still got it right but what about these other scientific from the Quran. Iron within meteorites: “We sent down Iron with its great inherent strength and its many benefits for humankind” (Quran 57:25). The sky’s protection: “And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away” (Quran 21:32). The Big Bang theory: “Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them” (Quran, 21:30). Sun moving in orbit: And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming” (Quran, 21:33). Expansion of the universe: And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander” (Quran, 51:47). Tell me any of those scientfic facts before the Quran was revealed

[@avengers9784]

@@bavinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn1092 Atheist have no answer of these things😂

[@Blackman1000ify]

@@bavinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn1092 The ‘iron sent down from heaven’ proposition is not distinct to Islam nor was the Islamic version the earliest. The ancient Egyptians referred to iron as ‘iron from heaven’. Thus the concept of iron from outer space/heaven/sky was already known to humanity thousands of years before Islam.

[@Blackman1000ify]

@@bavinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn1092 The Quran also says the Earth is geocentric and the Sun revolves around it. This is inaccurate in modern astronomy.

[@Blackman1000ify]

@@bavinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn1092 There is no mention of the Big Bang in the Quran. The world is on a whales back with the land spread out like carpet with mountains as pegs to keep the land in place. Also the sky is like a canopy or roof like a tent. This is ancient mythology.

[@LionEntity]

I'm an arab, and I know what my people are most known for, and that is commerce. Jews are known for that aswell, as the word arab means what the word hebrew means. Amazigh means the same, and these are all merchants by historical standards. What is the nature of a merchant? To be slick, to find ways to sell his product whether it works or not, to make a profit (prophet lol), even if he has to cheat. These people have the art of cheating, convincing, playing with words, in order to sell their product. Islam along with Judaism and Christianity all use the same technique. No other religion tries to convince others that it is the right one but these three. This says alot about its people, because that's how they culturally are. And it is all over their religions, and fools fall for it just like fools fall for new stuff coming out in the market which claims to be better than the previous, and Islam is the latest model of that product of Abrahamic religion, this is why it's making such a big fuss about how better it is than the others, when it has come from the others and depends on the existence of the others. These religions should be banned, and at best left to the discretion of the individual believer but nowhere should it be encouraged or given any credit for. I believed in islam between the ages 9 and 12, then I dropped it because I became an adult at a young age, and to me all other adults who still believed in these things seemed so childish to me. I'm 29 years old now, and never did I go back believing in it, and I've still kept researching religion and studying religion in order to understand it better. And the more I did so, the more I understood how fake it is, and how potetially damaging it is. To me, nothing is greater than leading a life free of religious belief, a healthy and natural life, a life of love and laughter, of compassion and mutual understanding towards our fellow human beings and towards all living beings in general. I am the proof that you don't need any God whatsoever for this kind of life, which is an immensely rewarding life and an enlightening life aswell.

[@WorldWeezy]

You fool, you ignorant ignorant fool. "I am the proof that you don't need any God whatsoever for this kind of life, which is an immensely rewarding life and an enlightening life aswell." spoken in the 2000s language of Satan , you're ignorant, i am happy that you didn't fall into the evil cult called" islam" but that makes no difference now, you have done the unforgiven sin. but let me tell you something - why do you think people like you, are doing exactly what Lucifers want? you are doing exactly what was written down 100 of years ago in a book. you think that's just random? you are doing what he want you to do. Ephesians 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. John 13:7 Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but afterward you will understand.” “I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.” - Mark 3:28-29 Satan's solo Job is to make you belive exactly what you belive and behave how you behave, to be your own "GOD" to belive as you ,yourself said , don't "need GOD to live a good life" you fool, Job 1:7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” Ephesians 6:11-16 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace

[@LionEntity]

WorldWeezy oooh...I'm scared....

[@WorldWeezy]

LionEntity i'm sure you aren't because you don't belive, but that's your problem not mine, you have choosen to live a sinfull life with "YOU" as the "GOD", and you can and will do that , GOD gave you free will to do WHATEVER you want, but you will then also have to stand "trial" for what you have choosen to do in this short life. don't be scared of what i tell you, be scared of GOD's wraith

[@LionEntity]

WorldWeezy That's your belief, my brother...not mine.

[@WorldWeezy]

LionEntity yes sir, now you go back to your little dream world. and live there like a 9 year old. and then when your final day comes and you lay on your death bed, you moste likely scream out for GOD and be scared, and then you will realise how much of waste your life hsa been without GOD but then you realise, it's too late. Enjoy your "life"

[@9829798297]

I love it!!!! Look at the muslims face expression when the gentlemen stated the pre islamic theory of water. Muslims hate anything that pre-dates their religion lol

[@9829798297]

A quran that jews created which is based on mythology.

[@InitialPC]

@@9829798297 the jews had nothing to do with the creation of the quran, the jews in medina were wiped out by the early muslims for their perceived "rebellion" against allah the early muslims were pagans who already hated the jews, not the other way around

[@maritderks23]

The first thing I heard when I clicked the play button was ''the belief in science''... You know, from that point on I am not even going to take anything that comes out of someones mouth seriously. It just shows that he has absolutely no idea what science is. It is a system of acquiring knowledge. It is not to be ''believed in''.

[@twitchic1753]

Speaking in a foreign language to your opponents is incredibly dishonest and rude.

[@aviadeloi498]

+Twit Chic he was reciting the Quaran and after he fineshed he translated it into English. Dishonest and rude?

[@muhammeds7199]

are you serious! he TRANSLATED what he said after! he was simply reciting a verse from the quran

[@brotherben4357]

When the crowd applauded Hassanain my heart fell. Is this still where humanity is?

[@gxbenzi]

Unfortunately, yes. Take comfort in the fact that these people who're applauding aren't the ones programming the prones to mars, and the religious people who do aren't stubborn and ignorant like this muslim debater

[@basti_marr]

"It's been said 2500 years ago" BOOOOOOOOOOOM! he should have just dropped the mic lol

[@abczyxone]

Dear, that is the claim of Islam that there are 124000 prophets before Muhammad and all of them telling the same believe. There are glimpses of truth here and there in different civilizations. But Islam added them together (because last message) that is why all the unshakable scientific facts are claimed by someone living far in desert and have not even a teacher. Question yourselves, how he able to collect all the scientifically correct facts in Quran? (Look at this theory, how Muhammad choose this theory out of many at that time, then it is not only one scientifically proven fact but many which were scattered around the world and hidden in history) Think!!! Mic dropped and life after death started :) Enjoy now!

[@avengers9784]

@@abczyxone Well said brother, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[@wisamchmeis9243]

The Quran states (surah 21:30) that everything living is made from water; Thales says that everything is made from water including matter. A clear line of difference.

[@Wishbone4evr]

All I hear from Hassanain is "A derka derka dakka dakka ding dong!" XD

[@Fuck_Anime]

+Smile.DOG baka laka daka street

[@Wishbone4evr]

Nibnob MEGA LULZ!!!!

[@ICECREAMK1NG1-jw8ig]

+Smile.DOG lmfao, me too, me too

[@stuarthill1124]

Yuo ar a racist remarks to all Muslim but nott true as ther ar ova billlllion Muslims and some ar safe for the working with children and so

[@Fuck_Anime]

Stuart Hill Rip english

[@nadhirmazouni8853]

Everyone talks gibberish when their words are cut out or they are not allowed to finish or only segments of a whole are shown. This sentence makes no sense if you take away the two ends, for example.

[@cod5291]

Completely debunked. And the stupid crowd did not even notice it.

[@tradehut2782]

+Cod 52 They dont want to hear it

[@nargisjafriofficial]

He translated too

[@nargisjafriofficial]

@@tradehut2782 he translated tht

[@BelloBudo007]

Am I detecting a cheer squad a religious debate? Imagine how excited this lot would get at a sporting event.

[@TheFourNobleTruths2]

Lmao

[@kalomanifesta6172]

This is my favorite video on the Internet. I love Dr. Carrier.

[@NK-nx3qq]

The Aggañña Sutta (Buddhist scripture) presents water as pre-existent to earthlike planets, with the planet forming with water and the life moving from the water onto the earth. The Buddha does not talk about a specific earth, but about earthlike planets in general

[@yussuqmadiq5274]

The Muslim here is diverting when it was shown that Thales already know that life originated from water hundreds of years before Mohammed was born. He tried to divert the issue by asking the atheist if he rejects the notion that life originates from water, when the point was that non-prophets already knows things about reality, and their knowledge did not came from an omniscient being. The probable argument for the Muslim is to make Thales, Archimedes, Socrates and other Greek philosophers as prophets too.

[@user-nw5te4mo1q]

I am not sure if that would work since the ancient Greeks are known to be polytheists. The opposite of monotheism.

[@yussuqmadiq5274]

Ultimate Bleach You should also hear on some Muslim apologists claiming that Buddha endorses Mohammed.

[@avengers9784]

Islam says that there are 124000 prophets before Muhammad and all of them telling the same believe. There are glimpses of truth here and there in different civilizations. But Islam added them together (because last message) that is why all the unshakable scientific facts are claimed by someone living far in desert and have not even a teacher. Question yourselves, how he able to collect all the scientifically correct facts in Quran? (Look at this theory, how Muhammad choose this theory out of many at that time, then it is not only one scientifically proven fact but many which were scattered around the world and hidden in history)

[@avengers9784]

This doesn't mean that I want to say Thales was a Prophet,I am just saying that All the Prophets had came and said the message of Allah to everyone.The Prophets were came a very long time before Thales.You already listen in this video that Adam was the first Prophet

[@yussuqmadiq5274]

@@avengers9784 Take note that Arabia was once part of the empire of Rome. And Rome was heavily influenced by the Greeks. So of course many scientific facts of Islam came from the Greeks. On prophets who came before Thales, can you name one who advocated the same theory before him? And how about the scientific errors in Islam? Anyway who said that Adam and other prophets were prophets of Islam? Isn't it Islam itself? Seems that your sources are biased and self-promoting.

[@marcostation1000]

Jajajajajajajaj the claim of Islam having scientific facts is ridiculous . Te Quran say the earth is flat.

[@emanshehadeh5462]

No, it doesn't. Where did you hear or see that? Find the verse that says that because I can find the verse that says that it's "egg-shaped." Sure, it's not egg-shaped but can you give me a more accurate guess from a man of his time?

[@marcostation1000]

والارض مددناها والقينا فيها رواسي وانبتنا فيها من كل شئ موزون Waal-arda madadnahawaalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli shay-in mawzoonin And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. Qur'an 15:19

[@marcostation1000]

الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا وسلك لكم فيها سبلا وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرجنا به ازواجا من نبات شتى Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wasalaka lakum feeha subulan waanzala mina alssama-imaan faakhrajna bihi azwajan min nabatinshatta He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others. Qur'an 20:53

[@marcostation1000]

الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا وجعل لكم فيها سبلا لعلكم تهتدون Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wajaAAala lakum feeha subulan laAAallakum tahtadoona (Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way); Qur'an 43:10

[@marcostation1000]

والله جعل لكم الارض بساطا WaAllahu jaAAala lakumu al-ardabisatan And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out), Qur'an 71:19

[@rspaz7359]

Hahaha i laughed at that muslim hard hahaha the scientist nailed him.

[@eleventythymes8360]

Aww that's just hilarious. Dude was hitting the brakes, the gas, burning oil and doing a hairpin turn all at once.

[@Reddust86]

cognitive dissonance hit this guy really hard...

[@gbcxroz3258]

😅😅😅

[@hyperiterite818]

But didn't Thale said that everything originated from water, not just life. If not, can someone provide me a source?

[@pallaeon]

Yes because no one 1400 years ago noticed that if you withhold water from anything living, plant or animal, it dies and could not conclude from that simple observable fact that maybe water is a prerequisite for life.

[@Jima1234567]

Owned by a man with an education

[@mithi9]

Lol the clapping imo reaffirms their insecurity. They felt vulnerable by the truth and when presented with comfort they revered it.

[@gumbydizz7182]

You negated my point and made me look like an idiot but it doesn't matter! what? lol.

[@JemmetGK]

Is the whole thing somewhere on KZbin?

[@Demonizer5134]

Yes, it's a very good debate. Search "Does God Not Exist". The atheists won in my opinion.

[@ragavan50]

It took me quite a while to figure out where the claps were coming from. Had to pause the video to see there were alot of ninja's in the audience, nothing's getting past me.

[@alimousa1909]

very unfunny

[@E101ification]

At 1:12 the flapping and stuttering starts! "B-b-but....it....no....that....doesn't matter!"

[@NK-nx3qq]

Also 2500 years ago the Buddha said in the scriptures that all life originated as single celled organisms in the water and evolved over a long time into complex organisms.

[@chrischow9085]

When Muslims say the word Science it really means Islamic Science where sun has a setting place on earth.

[@SomeofThisSomeofThat]

Thales hypothesized that “all matter was made from water” The Quran corrected him and said “all living things are made from water”

[@shiz777]

The nerd destroyed the Imam

[@saintpine]

"Do the disbelievers not see that the earth and the sky were one and we opened it" Why didn't Carrier criticize this part of the comment? 1. No one could have SEEN the big bang occurring. 2. the earth and the sky were never together, the earth was formed billions of years later. This phrase is more likely the desert dwellers understanding of the horizon expanding forward continuously while you move towards it, due to the earths curvature.

[@avengers9784]

It's talking about earth and sky which are together not earth and space

[@ma1la2z54]

@@avengers9784 lol keep denying

[@TheHandymanQld]

Looking at the crowd you can see the culture of tribalism.

[@yeovil50]

Why do Muslim debaters always have to quote something in Arabic before he gets to what it means - we don't give a shit..a lie is a lie in whatever language you put it in!!

[@Sluj666]

0:51 It was at this moment he realized.....his argument was about to be dismantled!

[@wesamalshaif]

Thales even said that the world floated on water…the only naturalistic explanation for the Quran's statements would be that the author actually knew which parts of Greek science were wrong and which were right, which given the nature of science in 7th century arabia is complete nonsense.

[@Izakokomarixyz]

I'm pretty sure most people knew that if they don't drink water they will die. Same with pretty much every other life form. It wouldn't be the biggest stretch to suggest that biological life is mostly water because it depends heavily on it. You don't need a god to tell you that. He probably didn't write down what Thales said about the world floating on water because it's not something people can actually see, unlike absolutely knowing the fact that humans and all other lifeforms cannot live without water.

[@wesamalshaif]

Izakokomarixyz it's amazing the length which people go to in order to justify something said by someone of their belief system...the fact is, this guy Carrier misquoted Thales, and fooled people into thinking that the Quran copied that statement when in fact they are two completely different statements...Thales said EVERYTHING is made of water, including planets, fire, wind, metals etc..the Quran says that every LIVING thing is made of water...now you have to put aside your bias and ask mr.Carrier why he misrepresented what Thales said...even if it is obvious that everything NEEDS water, which is not obvious to a man who lives in the DESSERT, it is still different than stating that water actually makes up biological entities.

[@Izakokomarixyz]

wesamalshaif I think that it would be even more obvious to a person who lives in the desert to know that water is absolutely vital for survival... Like I said, humans and other lifeforms sweat, shed tears, urinate, bleed, and salivate liquids, even ejaculate is liquid..., and they require water many times a day... it's not a huge stretch to assume that lifeforms are made of water, it's just not...

[@wesamalshaif]

Izakokomarixyz i can respect that assessment although i can make a case for the contrary, however, that doesnt explain why mr.Carrier misquoted Thales like that.

[@ricardojames1168]

@ wesamalshaif It's not necessarily a misquote. Nothing in the video demonstrates an intentional need to omit more information about Thales. Rather, Thales spoke of life being part of, and or having its fundamentals to linked to water. This is demonstration that primitive men of a time beyond, were capable of hypothesizing as such, demonstrating it is not beyond the mind of men to come up with such ideas. He does not have to explain how Thales spoke of water being linked to other substances, only that there was a person capable of formulating that water was linked to life. Hasanain's case depends on the weakness of the human mind to come up with this sort of information about the world. However, carrier demonstrates if non-prophets can hypothesize the same, then it not necessary for it be a prophetic act requiring divine intervention, negating the conclusion that Muhammad ( or those of his clique), must have been given divine knowledge, as there exists the naturalistic possibility of it being explained by simple observation, reflection and creative thinking. Of the 2 hypothesis, the naturalistic account will be probabilisticly more likely because we already have cases of ingenious thought and creativity before its time ( Democritus and the Atom; Leonardo Di Vinci and planes; Anaximander and evolution), before we go to the least probable supernatural explanations ( of which we have no recorded instance) Nothing necessarily means here that Muhammad is being accused of co-opting Thales's work in particular. On the assumption that he may have: It is still possible given that a great deal of time had passed since, to have relied on intelligent and educated input from peers, doctors and wise man of his time ( during his travels) to take aspects of Greek and Roman antiquity while discarding others that seemed to be aberrations from the truth. This is still probabilisticly more likely than the scenario where magic inspired him. Why? Because we don't have a recorded instance of Muhammad actually being communicated to by this supreme being. It is a conclusion reached by inference. Similarly, even if we don't have recorded instance of, perhaps, Muhammad taking input from certain intellectuals of the time, it a conclusion we can reach by an inference making the same moves as the theist. This inference is more LIKELY than one predicated on magic. You focus on alleging that Carrier lied, and above I show this does not have to be the case, yet you ignore the blatant dishonesty from Hasnain. His contradictory remark of "It doesn't matter", when it is essential to his case, his proceeding blabbering about something irrelevant and incoherent regarding 'Infiltration', his persistence in pretending to be obtuse as a misdirection right to the very end "Can you deny that scientifically" - When that was completely beyond the point. So you ignore it in case of your hero to preserve your faith, but attempt to spot blemishes on others. Be fair and focus on the actual person making the error here. Hasanain got rattled, and like you, began searching for excuses. You guys are not sincere searchers of the truth. A truthful person would have made admission of a mistake, not dogmatically defend the Quran like an arrogant liar.

[@cameronalexander7018]

I love the burden of scientific proof in religious texts. The koran probably says something extremely vague like "there was water and there was life in the beginning". Funny how these idiots can never make any scientific PREDICTIONS based on their koran, they can only point to vague passages AFTER THE FACT and try to interpret them as science. RIDICULOUS.

[@Evaese]

"all life evolved from water' that's based on our current knowledge, things can change in an instance - we haven't even tapped into our own system yet, let alone the neighboring galaxies.

[@RealLife-dp9dd]

That is what indoctrinated do not understand what if life starts from gas on other planet what will they do then?

[@RandomMe93]

The should make a new debate format that audiences should not be able to interact with the speakers until Q & A session because this religious "speakers" are just performing for the crowd and not discussing the topic at hand.

[@MarvelGamer2023]

The Bible says that life originated from water 2,000 years before the Qur'an so it's not even an original concept.

[@jamaldaone]

Owned

[@metalpunk89]

Carrier's face at 1:56. Priceless XD

[@craighorton9398]

Thank you for the clarification Dr.Carrier.

[@domloz3130]

When the koran was written people thought the world was flat. How can anyone believe a word thats written in it or any religious book for that matter.

[@AgonArts]

Thales of Miletus actually said it wrong Thales observed that water was important in everyday life. Most things were moist. Life needed water for nourishment, and many things lived near water. Thales believed that water was the origin of all things in Nature. The quran says all "living" things and Thales said "everything " which is terribly wrong since we have materials that have not been formed by water. So the atheist lied just to make it look like he owned him.

[@Michael-ti5nf]

Thales’s ideas were made known in Aristotle’s “Metaphysics,” where he says… “[The philosophers] do not all agree, however, on the number and kind of such a starting-oint. Thales, the one who started this sort of philosophy, says it is water (because of this, he also declared that the earth rests on water), perhaps reaching this supposition from seeing that the nourishment for all things is moist...” - Aristotle, Metaphysics “All life” is part of “everything.” The word “nourishment” relates to life. So Thales’s ideas would have certainly been interpreted to include all life. The Quran was written about 1000-1200 years after Thales, so the idea that EVERYTHING came from water would have already been challenged (recall when Carrier says the view was not commonly held but still cosmological at the time). It is most certain that the Quran rejected the idea of everything coming from water but took on the idea of life. This is in line with other instances of Quranic plagiarism from the Greeks (instance, Galenic view of development of flesh and bones).

[@account_nameonline6420]

How humiliating and cringeworthy for this Muslim guy.

[@LuciusAugustusRomanusInvictus]

this really should have more views, you can really see the brain rot that descends upon people with strong religious inclinations and I'm not even going to say anything about all the muslim women in the crowd except who let them out?

[@mo39fhn]

The Quran isn't trying to take credit that it is the first source to describe water as the origin of all life. But it asserts and certifies that water is the origin of all life... meaning that should this somehow get disproven, the credibility of the religion gets shook. That's quite a risk to take when such a fact was not commonplace knowledge back then. So for the Quran therefore to boldly assert such a thing is quite exceptional.

[@theironknight597]

1:23 He starts talking about the Quran rejecting the idea of original sin of Adam and Eve to an atheist, an ATHEIST.

[@TheIlluminated0ne]

how do you boil an entire debate into 2 minutes? That is a nonsense attempt at refuting anyone's claims. this idea of "owning" does not exist in the realm of debate. Mark, what he stated afterwards was that, its fine if it was stated 2500 years ago; Prophets have been given this knowledge from the beginning. The point he is making is that the Prophet made many claims within the Quran that are scientific and science has revealed them to be true. He is not only aiming at the statement, rather the validity of it.

[@syedshamrezrehanshahkazmi3324]

None of the atheists like being told they are wrong, they want to mock anyone who claims they are wrong; it's narcissism

[@arvydussibonus1712]

1:22 After Carrier roundly falsifies this guy's claim, he starts flailing badly trying to move the goal posts way off.

[@royalzak2670]

Those poor sheeple in the audience.

[@woahwhite4530]

Any god that would need violent, religious enforcers to go around judging and cursing, and in the worst cases, physically harming non-believers, would be an extraordinarily weak entity, and not a god that would ever inspire allegiance in my heart or mind or soul if indeed we have such a thing. But then again, I'm always striving to be a kind, giving, honest and non-violent individual, so can't say I fit the god who encourages such hideous violence and savagery that is the 1st Testament, the book that Islam, Christianity and Zionism all have so deeply in common. So many cherry pickers out there ignoring the nasty truth in religion. Read the 1st testament from front to back and then defend it as the rational, non mentally ill human being that you are. The Koran, the Bible, the Talmud... All swear they are the truth... It all depends on where you grew up and with whom. Rarely otherwise.

[@patrickbaxter1849]

After Carrier eviscerates the Rajabali's statement, I have no idea what in the blue hell Rajabali is talking about here: 1:21

[@gcpgcp7617]

The science u guys are talking, it is so elaborately and graphically illustrated in Srimad Bhagavatam 5000years ago.what prophecy has been left? everything could be found in Vedic literature w/c today's scientists did not discover yet.

[@184ktmdm]

"That doesn't matter". Actually it does.

[@sorenmedia7134]

Thales believed that the earth floats on water and that earthquakes happen when waves cause the earth to rock. If the Qur'an was copying Thales, why would only the correct belief(s) of Thales be copied? Why wouldn't these also be mentioned? The Qur'an does mention earthquakes in general but never says that it's because of waves. Furthermore the example of Surah 21 Ayah 30 is only one example, there are plenty of others, for example Surah 25 Ayah 53: "And it is He who has released [simultaneously] the two seas [i.e. bodies of water], one fresh and sweet and one salty and bitter, and He placed between them a barrier and prohibiting partition."

[@alhaqq258]

I was watching this video on a public transportation train on my way to work with my friend who happens to be Saudi-Arab and obviously a devout Muslim who works at the same 7/11 as me and I showed him this video and he was in shock... He didnt know what to say so he just said "Okay fine.. You win.. Just leave me alone and let get to fucking work!" which is not common of him lmaoo. He generally responds with very strong arguments and tries his best to make counter my argument.

[@avengers9784]

Hey man, there is only one thing which Thales discovered.Many much thing is in Quran which is written 1400 years ago

[@adamlimalia]

Thales got 1 thing right...how does what affect islam in anyway

[@black-xenomorphalien8576]

@@adamlimalia it debunks the argument from that Muslim guy and gives an example how "islamic miracles work. E.g. embryology allegedly prophesied by mohanmad was also stolen from another ancient Greek scientist Galenus. 😁

[@unhingedconnoisseur164]

the problem with the Thales comparison: Thales said that water was divine, that the Earth floated on water, that earthquakes were caused by the waves in the water that the Earth floats on. You could say "but Thales didn't claim divine revelation to claim that life originated from water", yeah, but he also made many mistakes such as the aforementioned issues. With all this being said, I'm not actually a fan of using scientific miracles to try and prove Islam (as a Muslim), I think that they end up being blown way out of proportion, I think that they lead to skewed interpretations of the Qur'an to try and force science into it (though I do think there are a couple things that are interesting like the water and embryology) , and overall our main points of argument end up becoming undermined. What are they? Off the top of my head: The Qur'an is a sui generis (one of a kind) text, as in, in terms of content and style, it's one of a kind. It makes this claim for itself too numerous times, the first one you'll find is in Surah al Baqarah where it challenges mankind to bring forth a surah like it. Even its Wikipedia page describes it as the best work in the Arabic language (check for yourself). No other work has ever done this. Even Alexander the Great, who conquered all of these lands, was the product of an already very sophisticated civilization (ancient Greece) People who watch Qur'an recitations online, for the first time in their lives, who aren't Muslim, most of the time end up feeling really moved, even overwhelmed. The Qur'an essentially transformed an economically insignificant desert dwelling community into what would become the farthest reaching empire in history at the time 'overnight' , and even when the Mongols broke this record, the Mongols themselves became Muslim.

[@dutchvanderlinde4969]

where the sun go at night according sahih Bukhari 3199, sunan Abu Dawood 4002 & q0r4n surah al khaf:86??

[@hinafirdos6854]

husain gave a source from quran...while richard just said a fact but didnt mensioned the source. how can i belive that it was sayed before. and hisain said the first human was prophet thats wrong i am a muslim and in quran said prophet comes among ppl according to that first human wasant prophet.

[@bookishdreams200]

guys, he means it doesn't matter who said it, because it wasn't confirmed in the science at the time, but when the prophet came he confirmed it and gave it as a fact, and only recently did science reached a conclusion that its a fact

[@E101ification]

"...no....that....if he said it then why doesn't science take it today?" - What the hell does that response have to do with what Carrier said? Lol.

[@zakariyarazi8247]

The Quran does not say life comes from water. The Quran says that water has life.

[@dimalex8]

"If Thales wasn't a prophet" ahahhaa totally owned

[@Stellarspace95]

I did not know that Muslims take the sin in the garden as mythology

[@Jamieishere1]

To say that everything living was made out of water is simply nonsense anyway. Water is a pre-requisite for life as we know it. This doesn't mean that things are made out of water... it means that it is a component of them... the fact that it appears essential for all visible life forms to drink it would give a not-so-subtle clue as to this fact to anybody living millennia ago.

[@mufxsa3601]

I've seen yet so many comments which are founded in both arrogance and ignorance. Thales's main principle was that of the originality, and encompassing nature of the reality of water. The Prophet Muhammad is a messenger of God, who is a messenger of an All Knowing Being, the statements made by Prophet Muhammad are always true. If they are proven false, then he wouldn't be a Prophet of God. In the debate, the other Atheist states that if you throw enough spaghetti at the wall, some of it will stick, referring to the shared view of Prophet Muhammad and Thales. Though every piece of spaghetti which has been thrown by Prophet Muhammad has stuck indefinitely, he didn't think "I like Thales's notion in regards to the centrality of Water, I shall adopt it, spread it as my own, and use it to my own gain." The belief that Hassanain Rajabli was "owned" by Richard Carrier is false, and is partly Ad Hominemic Fallacy.

[@Hassib7]

He didn't own him because thales says everything is made of water while the Quran says everything LIVING is made of water. Obviously the first one is wrong while the second is right because we know not everything is made of water.

[@HellNoKamala]

I reject it because...Adam came from the dust on the ground not water. Also how would he be a prophet? Who would he prophesy to? He was the first man. Adam fulfilled no prophecy.

[@shi3i4lyf44]

How on earth was he owned. The oppositions were owned big time

[@flashmanharry1528]

The MUSLIMS man's basic knowledge got destroyed by a basic point. He got totally owned.

[@noosewrld]

actually you can claim that he was divinely inspired, so long as he was unlettered. He's simply referring to the fact, that an unlettered man began to preach what sounds like divine knowledge - and that in this particular case, the story of creation and the scientific understanding of water's sequence in the earth's creation, are coinciding. This may not be enough evidence for you, but to make a divine claim of divine knowledge and be right about CREATION let's emphasize that a bit, is an incredible achievement. One conveniently explained by God's claim to creation.

[@noosewrld]

Conditions for this argument; 1. Proof he was unlettered. If it says so in the Quran, and we have eyewitness testaments, this is enough to fulfill two of the three conditions of believe. 2. Make a strong theoretical claim through collective thinking to a process that explains creation. Muslims allege, that this occurred, with both science's validation today, claims of divine inspiration to a population as large as the roman empire, and Thales' writings in post-history.

[@cjunk351]

OOOO YEAH, what a SMACK DOWN.......Richard Carrrier is AWESOME!!!!!!!! See how the muslims guy then just IGNORES it and says it is IRRELEVANT, when he was just arguing how RELEVANT it was......what a DOOOOOFUS

[@tahasrori]

carrier's question will cause another question which is how would the prophet know what is wrong so he can avoid it and what's right so he can take it

[@jackdejohnette2810]

+taha srori The prophet is dead, and is mostly fiction anyway, but even if he was real and alive , he would merely be looking for the next 9 year old girl to rape

[@tahasrori]

First thing He married a nine years WOMAN His wife (aishah) was a WOMAN not a child and some females at age of nine become mature and that's a scientific evidence proves that there's a females who become women at age of nine www.m.webmd.com/women/tc/normal-menstrual-cycle-menarche-and-the-teenage-menstrual-cycle and you said My prophet is not real lol You're so funny And. there's something really interesting someone who doesn't have an objective morality would point the finger at Islamic morality!!! where's your source of ethnics ! And by the way you didn't answer my question How would the prophet know what's correct and what's not . Jack DeJohnette

[@jackdejohnette2810]

taha srori So you admit you worship a child rapist and that you get your morality from a book written by psychopathic ,primitive goat herding morons, this is not objective morality it is stupidity. My morality comes from the wish that all suffering ends, very simple, very objective. Now fuck off and get back to worshipping your fictional god and your long dead child raping, woman hating, warmongering , lying piece of shit so called prophet, piss be upon him.

[@tahasrori]

Quote " So you admit you worship a child rapist " Wait a second do you think that I worship Mohammed peace be upon him ! Like Christians who worship Jesus peace be upon him! Damn man , you're beyond stupid! uneducated person He's a prophet not a god . and believe I explained to you scientifically that she wasn't a child " that you get your morality from a book written by psychopathic ,primitive goat herding morons, " Disrespecting my religion will not prove your pathetic atheism ". My morality comes from the wish that all suffering ends, very simple, very objective. " That's mean incest with contraception is not wrong according to your morality which is not objective btw "Now f**k off and get back to " like I thought you can't even prove any of your points that's why you running out from the discussion Jack DeJohnette

[@Antonpreis]

+taha srori He actually married a six-year-old child, and a nine-year old is not a woman, even though she may have started (erratic) periods, as her hips are still very narrow, and child-bearing at that age can be very harmful. Mohammed insisted on the marriage - something he wanted, but neither Aisha nor her father wanted.

[@steammonir2053]

Islam is the only religion on earth that tells you how to get through your life better and have a reason for waking up. But I wonder atheists argue that there is no god only nature power does that mean that there is no reason for you to wake up or does that mean that when you die there will be nothing only dark screen for eternity. while atheists keep wondering about that islam easily tell you that if you live your life in a good way without harming anyone nor harming your self you get to the best place that no one ever saw from this universe and its called paradise (Jannah) while atheists still wonder what will happen to them and thrive to live thousends of years old but no running from your death lol

[@JohnJones-ky6ki]

"that if you live your life in a good way without harming anyone nor harming your self you get to the best place that no one ever saw from this universe and its called paradise" Beside there is no evidence for a god, what u said aint true. In the quran it says, before your born its already decided whether you got to heaven or hell. So it doesnt matter if u live your live good or bad. "and have a reason for waking up.' And we atheist dont have a reason to wake up??? U wanna live your live and provide for your family. That is one reason enough. "while atheists still wonder what will happen to them" We dont wonder what will happen? we know what happen!! U die and thats it!! Like a insect, like a animal, like a plant, like a tree. Like every living thing. You just die. U stop living!!🤣

[@Mrcitizen833]

There maybe a supreme creator / god but it’s definitely not Allah !! When you have little knowledge about everything other than your religion you might feel brilliant and confident just like this guy but for the rest of the world you’re just fools !!!

[@jonathanjrgensen6774]

"in scientific evidence today, can you reject that life did not originate from water" why on earth would he say that - Why would Richard want to reject that? What does that have to do with anything?

[@razamirza835]

hes saying that claims in the quran are being proven by science. Which begs the questions: how did Islam know about this, science at the time (specifically in arabia) wasnt as advanced, these views where not prevelant, prophet Muhammad pbuh didnt research this, so, where exactly did this notion come from, the only logical answer is that the quran is the word of god.

[@jonathanjrgensen6774]

​@@razamirza835"the only logical answer is magic" 💀 No, there's naturalistic explanations for literally every "prediction" in the Quran. And like Richard explained, the Quran wasn't the first to suspect life originated from water. Do you want the naturalistic explanation or are you content not having your infinite wizard theory challenged?

[@razamirza835]

​@@jonathanjrgensen6774 to begin with I was simply explaining what Rajabali was tryin to say (ill agree he wasn't very eloquent with it, however that is what is understood). Here's some quick information regarding Thales. Thales's most basic beliefs were rooted on the notion that almost everything was made of water. Therefore, this stance is different than that which is found in the Quran. Coming to the naturalistic explanation for the predictions in the Quran, it's essential to recognize that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) emerged from a society where academic pursuits and scientific advancements were not the norm. He himself was known as a merchant, not a scholar, scientist or researcher. Furthermore, he wasn't located in a place where he would be able to mingle with those of the academic background, other places such as the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) and the Sassanian Empire (Persian Empire) were much more advanced than the Arabs. Despite this, many of their theories and predictions have been proven as invalid. As such the accuracy of Quranic predictions are unprecedented. I would like to challenge you, to bring a historical figure who didn't have any academic background who brought forward such predictions. Unlike other individual ( who may have had scientific acumen or exposure to academic environments), the Prophet's revelations transcended the limitations of his time and societal context. The Quran encompasses knowledge that could not have been acquired through conventional means, thus proving a divine origin. Indeed those who don't want to believe will not believe, and will come up with excuses. Ultimately, the truth of these revelations withstands the test of time and cannot linked to a naturalistic explanation.

[@flashmanharry6763]

Absolutely Owned ! But he still thinks he's right.

[@Sahil-ev3mv]

This guy rlly just said “it doesn’t matter” lmao

[@ACCAS]

Lol, @ 1:16 That guy is not sure what just hit him. You know how when a boxer really gets rocked and he looks all confused and is just punching at the air? That is what that guy reminds me of as he fumbles around for a rebuttal.

[@cod5291]

+A.C. CAS Yeah me too, that was a knock out punch. Best response possible from Richard. Then H. sounds very insecure and directly moves to standard bla bla talk about I don´t know what. Notice he becomes angry, whereas he started off arrogant. Beautiful!

[@junehudson6147]

Thales himself was not an atheist: Thales posed "the independent pre-existence of God from all eternity, stating "that God was the oldest of all beings, for he existed without a previous cause even in the way of generation; that the world was the most beautiful of all things; for it was created by God."[59]

[@ZingSnips]

1:22 He said something smart right? Clap now? oh ok.

[@RealLife-dp9dd]

🤣😂🤣😂

[@sebmikkelsen4356]

The audience is a family guy episode

[@AllySmiles201]

The Kor'an says the you can married a 12 year old. THAT"S FUCKING SICK!!!!!!!!!!

[@Thutmosis7]

Actually the ancient egyptians were the first one to save that water is the origin of life. Cuz the nile was the source of life to the ancient egyptians. So it was the africans who thought the greeks these stuff. Nothing came from greece that was new to the african world cuz we already knew these things.

[@xdaantihero]

Ancient Egyptians said that they came from the primeval waters 🤣🤣🤣