MUSLIM LANTERN HUMILIATES JAY DYER - FULL DEBATE

[@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebi]

What I learned from this: 1.Christians shouldn’t debate Muslim Lantern, they are too afraid to let him even speak for a minute while he destroys every argument in pure calmness. 2. Jay loves "fallacies" and "circles" that first one is his favorite word probably

[@th4_h0ff10]

Jay is right. Trinity and Allahs Foot and Attributes are the same Problem.

[@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebi]

@@th4_h0ff10 absolutely not the case 😂 this is such a sad try

[@th4_h0ff10]

@@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebi Sure, islamic Scholars are fighting about this since centuries. Also, the trinity is no problem. There is nothing but god. So the world, you and your mind/spirit can only be god, although they are different from each other. Is Something more god than the other? No, god cant be divided. If you deny any of this, you would say, that something other exists next to god, which is, blasphemy.

[@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebi]

@@th4_h0ff10 there is a difference about how we interpret certain attributes of Allah but they still consider each other ahlul Sunna for the most part and yes we do have some scholarly difference of opinion on smaller things that we don’t have a direct revelation for, that’s completely unlike the early church history who didn’t have minor differences in creed (I mean every Muslim believes in Allah, that he is one and that he has those 99 attributes there is already not much be disputed about) but who had entirely different god concepts, Unitarianism, binitarianism, trinitarianism, tritheists, Arianism and countless more, we have a small dispute over certain attributes of allaha nd a lot of these scholars who debated these topics even said that lay people shouldn’t worry about this and that this is something advanced for the scholars, the early christians on the other hand had no clue what even their god was. They needed 300 years to make something canon (without any revelation or anything just the church fathers trying to make sense out of confusion that was going around) and somehow they ended up with the most illogical and unbiblical concept out of all of them and call everything else a heresy. The problem with the trinity comes mostly out when you try to make a comparison to something that actually exists, you fall into exactly these heresies, like partialism. You claim that his consists of 3 parts, the mind the soul and the body, well if I compare that to me than neither my mind nor my soul or body makes up 100% of me, they are all just a part let’s say 1/3rd each, the problem is that you claim these parts are all 100% god and completely distinct from each other, that’s what we call blasphemy, Allah is indivisible and all his perfect attributes are as well. If you are angry you don’t see yourself and your anger as two different persons, do you? Somehow you came to the conclusion that that is how god functions. You need a complete philosophical education to be able to choose your words wise enough to make it seem like this makes sense, this is the god concept that we were literally created to believe in? Than why does it go against human nature and intellect

[@th4_h0ff10]

@@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebi @TheOneAndOnlyJinglebi your intellect is Limited, god is unlimited. How does the Limited understand the unlimited? First of all. I never said he consists of three parts. Lie. The Trinity is a concession to speech. Speech is Limited, it cant say anything true about the unlimited. The father, son and the Spirit shows how there can seemingly be multiple things or persons, all different, but same in their unlimited undividable essence. Thats a relative concession to the relative human intellect. In absolute Terms, there are no Humans, no world, no Spirit, no you, etc...there is only god, who appears to you as multiple persons and objects. So you dont understand, that the question: "how can Jesus be god" doesnt make Sense from the absolute Perspective: there is no Jesus, there is only god, so the question is the Problem, not the answer. If you think there are persons, objects that ARE next to god, you are the blasphemist, because you deny his unlimited nature. Everything is in him, nothing is, but him.

[@ShreddedGenius]

Let me get this straight jay provides a precise definition of the trinity but that definition doesnt allow muslim lantern to use his fallacious arguments so he asked for another definition which allows him to use those fallacious arguments which ignores what jay previously said. He also pretended to be ignorant on issues such as the debate upon allah's attributes yet muslims think he won🤣

[@1sosukeaizen1]

That wasn’t a definition. That was the biggest waffle, just fun fact the definition given by Muslim lantern was what your church come up with after many councils so if you don’t like it leave your religion

[@roxas4587]

can you repeat what Jay defined & what Muslim Lantern defined?

[@1sosukeaizen1]

@@roxas4587 haha he will tell you the Muslim lantern definition 😂

[@issaaabella1225]

Jay doesn’t provide any definition .. just a contradictory explanation .. the son is subordinate to a king but they share the same essence .. they are both human .. YES I AGREE . BUT 2 DIFFERENT PEOPLE 😊. That’s what Lantern sess saying it’s not one God but three gods . Polytheism ! Regarding Allahs atttibutes , Jay didn’t understand the simple definition .. a man has love, fear mercy in him .. are they separate from him ? Simple and concise .. but the Christian’s like you try to make this into something it isn’t , as you have nothing you can attack 😁.

[@alexandersabadus8923]

@@issaaabella1225seems like lantern put Jay on mute for his opening statement lmao. His definition made plenty of sense and ML tried brushing it off to try to use his dawah script lol

[@koshurpheran9191]

Christian theology in a nutshell : god sacrificed god to god in order to save god’s creation from god. god prayed to god for help but god didn’t help god and god killed god with help from humans, while god is all powerful. And that god is the father of himself and a son of himself at the same time. He is also eternal but his birthday is celebrated on 25th of December. god is all knowledgeable and is ignorant too. And that 1+1+1=1, so says god.

[@amara7734]

Hi, if you want to learn about Christian theology and the trinity in particular, I would like to have a conversation with you about it. It's usually ineffective to just hurl insults so let's try to keep it respectful. First off, explain to me your understanding of the Trinity, in the most logical terms you understand, and why it does not make sense to you. Thanks

[@000ohm]

the only thing I learned from all this is that the moderator has no clue what moderating a debate actually means.

[@johnogrady_]

When someone knows they are being exposed they do there utmost to talk over and disrupt

[@unicornshereen2316]

The patience of brother Muhammad Ali is next level. You cannot debate Jay without getting extremely dirty and disrespectful. Can’t debate without him making you stoop very low to his own level. These people are best left ignored. May Allah reward you Muhammad, this bafoon was very hard to listen to without cringing.

[@thecossackcrusaderofholybr8448]

Jay only fights dirty when his opponent does the same. Throughout the debate Lantern strawmanned and did not understand the argument at all. Instead he used circular reasoning without even knowing.

[@unicornshereen2316]

@@thecossackcrusaderofholybr8448 the irony. I see the exact opposite of what you just said. Who started to interrupt who? And who started using insults first? The answer is right there for you to look at again. You seriously must be coping rn.

[@thecossackcrusaderofholybr8448]

@@unicornshereen2316 Jay only does that when his opponent is being stupid/dishonest and that’s exactly what Muslims Lantern was start to finish. But, because Islam is a lie you no longer can recognize when a lie is told or when a fallacy is made because that is the basis of your belief.

[@thecossackcrusaderofholybr8448]

@@unicornshereen2316 I don’t deny, Jay did not conduct himself really well here however your Lantern lost and was spouting nonsense from start to finish and you‘re to blind to even see it.

[@unicornshereen2316]

@@thecossackcrusaderofholybr8448 listen ‘Cossack Crusader’ , The Muslim lantern is a very respected and well spoken individual. I’m case you ain’t seen his videos, he likes to set the foundation for a normal human conversation, which Jay has no clue of. Lantern likes to speak and then let his opponents speak. You know, like a normal person. But Jay however, just spoke over him the entire time, make the whole thing so difficult to even listen to. He acts like a child. And yet, you still haven’t singled out 1 point that Jay made, that made him “win” this so called debate. Learn to cope . It’s okay to lose . Your always losing anyway. Just like your crusades 🤣

[@vwoify7705]

I understand Jay's frustration bro is twisting words lmao

[@johnogrady_]

There is no where in the Bible that says it has to be interpreted

[@100PercentTaxes]

3:36 Sneako mutes Jay's opening Classy

[@ibbio3628]

Jay also interrupting every 5 seconds

[@alexandersabadus8923]

@@ibbio3628 yeah he doesn’t let bs arguments pass by lol

[@collisions4615]

24:00

[@brendanmassie9586]

ML says he doesn’t know what Aqeedah is yet has lectures on aqeedah. Lmao what a weasel

[@BarbaPamino]

Typical Arab trickery

[@Haze_in-bw7ff]

He was making fun of Jay's pronunciation of AQEEDAH, which eh pronounced as AKEEDA.. ML is well aware of AQEEDAH as he defends in against Jay when Jay tries to take a dig at Allah's attributes.

[@anthonygeorge8560]

​@Haze_in-bw7ff no he didn't. He didn't defend anything at all. He kept saying that they don't use these terms and there is no discussion about that in his schools. Yet that's a big fat lie l. Making fun of his pronunciation is nothing but weasling around and try to deflect from the questions. Also if he makes fun of Jay's pronunciation of akeeda then by all means ML should just close his channel off cause all his followers would pronounce akeeda the same way. Also ML literally has a video called "what akeeda teaches" so he suddenly knows what akeeda is ? Lol what a joke

[@anthonygeorge8560]

​​ @Haze_in-bw7ff also lol. It's not even Aqeedah. It's عقيدة by all means there is no equivalence to عقيدة its neither aqeeda nor akeeda both are wrong

[@Omar-gr7km]

@@anthonygeorge8560You seem to be doing a lot of squirming and grand standing. Do you have a case of the worms? 😂 There is no difference in opinion that the attributes of Allah are ATTRIBUTES. If you can’t comprehend basic English or logic all good brother may God guide you and all of us

[@colorsstones8957]

speaking from a neutral prespective ,the muslim lantern got demolished here ,it's not a fair debate

[@asafbartov9809]

Jay destroyed him 😂

[@mr_divel-4]

Only in thé comment section😂😂

[@alsammaniahmed2371]

😂

[@FREEPALESTINEFTRTTSEA]

How can a trinitarian win when they push falsehoods.. even the bible shows that you have pagan beliefs.. Jesus said God is One God.. John 17:3 Jesus is speaking to God and says God is the Only True God John 20:17 Jesus says God is his God.. See pagans setting up partners with God even though Jesus clearly taught God is One God.

[@diego1590]

You can quote these parts but what do you do with for example when Jesus said "everything that was from God was given to me"?

[@Spectre8702]

No wonder people are leaving Christianity.😊

[@vwoify7705]

Funny you say that when Islam is losing as many people as how many are being converted to Islam lol

[@TunerMud]

LMAO This is so rigged, they literally muted him

[@ibbio3628]

Bro cope 😂😂 he was interrupting so much

[@100PercentTaxes]

@@ibbio3628 Then why did they mute his opening statement?

[@HuziVert]

when muslim lantern smiles you know your end is coming

[@alexandersabadus8923]

Funny enough his own end came

[@unicornshereen2316]

@@alexandersabadus8923 pffft Straight troll ya are mate

[@Logician81]

The Christian guy loves the word fallacy, yet that's all he did the entire team.

[@anthonygeorge8560]

Lol. Even that would be more than what muslim lantern did the entire debate. Which is nothing but lying and weasling around

[@brendanmassie9586]

@@Logician81 name one fallacy Jay used

[@vwoify7705]

You probably don't even know what a fallacy is, and also at what point did he use a fallacy? I would like time stamps

[@Bigbyte-007]

Theyre fools just looking for a win. All of Lantern's presumption are basic Dawa crap easily refuted by junior apologists ​@vwoify7705

[@benk769]

Lmao how?

[@omerkhan7724]

Whats this Sneako brother doing, watching it and doing nothing. Bro, come on.watched till 26 minutes and its ridiculous of Jay.

[@misticky2693]

islam thrived by the sword, dies by the internet lol

[@FREEPALESTINEFTRTTSEA]

Islam brings the truth. Internet the fools.

[@OriginalQuranOnlyChristian]

How?

[@ttta-s3r]

This Christian just interrupts the conversation and says illogical things

[@anthonygeorge8560]

Define "illogical things" = anything that I don't agree with. That's your logic right there

[@kakarote100]

@@anthonygeorge8560 He's got a point. You need christian theology to make sense of the trinity, the Bible on its own undermines the concept of hypostatic union and trinity.

[@brendanmassie9586]

@@kakarote100 there’s no such thing as any text on its own. All texts must be interpreted through presuppositional worldview. This is basic epistemology and you guys are ignorant.

[@dinguskhan56]

@@anthonygeorge8560 an example of illogical is calling color attributes as separate being. This is basic preschool knowledge!

[@anthonygeorge8560]

@dinguskhan56 if I remember correctly, jay never said it's a separate being. His argument was that he gave an analogy to Allah with a created thing which is a shirt in this example. And there is a verse in the quran that nothing is like Allah, so ML shouldn't be able to give an analogy

[@TwistedBlood-cb5wi]

1-how are Jesus and God the same being if they have different wills at the same second? (Jesus praying to be saved but God want him on cross) 2- ONLY father knows hour not son nor holy spirit ; so father is not son 3- son on earth was praying to father in heaven; how one being and in 2 places at same time?

[@alexandersabadus8923]

This is common of people who have never studied Christianity

[@TwistedBlood-cb5wi]

@@alexandersabadus8923 where’s the answer then? This is common for biblical God who never knows maths :- 😂 8=5 😂 1 chronicle 3: 19 And the sons of Pedaiah were, Zerubbabel, and Shimei: and the sons of Zerubbabel; Meshullam(1), and Hananiah(2), and Shelomith(3) their sister 20 And Hashubah(4), and Ohel(5), and Berechiah(6), and Hasadiah(7), Jushabhesed(8), five. numbers 3:39 (7500+8600+6200= 22300 not 22000) !! Ezra 1: 9-11 the sum (30+1000+29+30+410+1000) =2499 not 5400 Matthew 1: 17 (last group is 13 not 14) Also Matthew deleted 3 kings from the second group(Ahaziah & Joash & Amaziah ) check 1chronicles 3: 11 😂😂

[@1sosukeaizen1]

The scary thing about Muslim lantern is that he will sit down calmly listening to all kind of waffles then come with one point that will destroy and make the other part regret in the worst possible way 😂

[@th4_h0ff10]

The scary Thing is that He is so camply and lying and deceiving at the Same time. Are the Attributes distinct? Are they dependent? Same Problem Like the trinity.

[@ismailisakovic7840]

​@@th4_h0ff10 bro explained but you christians are smart for that💀

[@th4_h0ff10]

@@ismailisakovic7840 He didnt. We dont even have to Go to the Trinity. Easy example: You and me are. Distinct. There is ONLY god. The second excludes the First. Resolve that. I dont think you want to deny your own or the extistence of god ;)

[@ismailisakovic7840]

@@th4_h0ff10 look bro, that cant be true is because God is not the source of confusion, and if that was true, they wold be equal but jesus said father is greater than I. Muslim lantern said everything that makes sense, God is One and he isnt anything like his creation, and the arms, shins are attributes, and attributes are a part of him. Everything that is a part of God is uncreated, just like the words also. When we say that God has a mouth we dont say he has a mouth like we do, it is different from our mouth but we cant imagine them because God is unimaginable.

[@th4_h0ff10]

@@ismailisakovic7840 answer what i asked you. You and me exist. ONLY god exists. Resolve that.

[@theislamicfirewall7473]

SubhanAllah imagine being stupid enough to think you can misquote the Quran in front of someone who is an Arabic Speaker AND a haafiz 😂😂 Both Jay's and Andew's body language showed just how desperate and nervous they were in front of Brother Muhammad .. May Allah (SWT) reward him for his efforts

[@youtubeapp1910]

At 4:38 jay dyer says that the early church fathers' were unanimously teaching diety of christ and trinity but when muslim lantern brings it up at 13:00 he lies through his teeth and says he didn't say it and his argument is being stawmanned 😅.

[@vwoify7705]

Bro you just proved yourself wrong how do you do that, in 4:38 he legit named the many early church fathers that TAUGHT the triad, deity of Christ, and deity of the holy spirit, and legit repeats what he actually said in 13:38, also you misquoted him in the first clip he said triad not trinity lol, and in 13:46 he even says no they don't have a unified agreement in the trinity and they do in fact debate about it however he actually didn't mention trinity in the first clip again he said triad, triad and trinity are different. Triad is the belief in 3 different Gods while Trinity is the belief in 3 different persons being 1 God united. So no actually Jay was correct in what he said, and actually was consistent proving that Muslim Lantern was actually in fact Strawmanning lmao.

[@alexandersabadus8923]

@@vwoify7705bro I don’t think he has the mental capacity to read all of this

[@ashj5952]

I can't believe how someone can be such an idiot to continue to embarrass himself by bringing up the same argument after constantly getting refuted. Especially with the attribute example "But Allah is nothing like creation." Yes, dingus. M.A is using this example to explain ATTRIBUTES AS A CONCEPT, NOT ALLAH.

[@panaderiatecnica5922]

jay destroy lantern!!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@linesteinsland2139]

Really? By not letting him speak and breaking his calmness? They only thing he could break was his patience..

[@colorsstones8957]

@@linesteinsland2139 you won't have patience when someone lie to your face and twist your words ,lantern deleted his shorts from this debate after getting exposed editing this video to appear like he's winning plus the poll is 76% vs 26% to jye dyer who's much smaller youtuber compared to lantern

[@ashj5952]

M.A's composure during constant interruptions and insults, speaking style and the ability to call out bs is unmatched.

[@khalifatube9679]

should have debated on morning. jay getting so mad and childish at 2am lol

[@Bigbyte-007]

How is it possible that Lantern bring up these beginners presuppositions in such a debate is sad. Who here doesn't know that the father is the God of all flesh and christ himbled him self from the esteemed state to become man? My father is not more human than me, but he is above me in a sense. This is useless

[@onepath9363]

the bible has been changed there are many examples such as KJV Acts 8:37 is missing in the NIV

[@anthonygeorge8560]

The quran has 7 ahrufs (أحرف) and 25 qerats (قراءات) reduced to 10 later on or whatever. With difference in meaning between all of those that sometimes can affect theology significantly. Meanwhile changes in the bible doesn't change major theological conceptions that we have of the triune God

[@onepath9363]

@anthonygeorge8560 Sahih Muslim 819 a Ibn 'Abbas reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: Gabriel taught me to recite in one style. I replied to him and kept asking him to give more (styles), till he reached seven modes (of recitation). Ibn Shibab said: It has reached me that these seven styles are essentially one, not differing about what is permitted and what is forbidden.

[@onepath9363]

@anthonygeorge8560 one big change in the bible is KJV "1 John 5:7 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. NIV "1 John 5:7 7 For there are three that testify:

[@anthonygeorge8560]

@@onepath9363 lol you can Claim that they are all essentially one but they definitely are not. And stating that they are one doesn't make them one. They are different.

[@onepath9363]

@@anthonygeorge8560 you clearly didn't read the hadith I quoted

[@nelsoncamachotirado6967]

Lights out for Muslim Lantern. 😂

[@Tislyfe]

Liking and leaving comment for algorithm. Muslim Lantern Masha’Allah demolished him and showed how childish the Christian was with no valid points or arguments!😂

[@luytluyt4529]

😂😂😂

[@Omar-gr7km]

There are clear contradictions in the Bible, even numerical contradictions which cannot be an issue of translation. Secular academics aren’t the only ones that state this, biblical scholars by and large hold the same position. Therefore even a layman knows it’s been corrupted.

[@luytluyt4529]

That goes against your Quran thus proving Islam is a devil religion

[@alexandersabadus8923]

The same secular academics who think the Quran isn’t a miracle lolol

[@whitecross_fc]

Jay is emotional and confusing

[@benk769]

"Confusing"? Is that your way of saying you dont understand his arguments

[@ajax1472]

Jay is embarrassing

[@dinguskhan56]

did the church fathers agreed on the trinity ? yes but actually no

[@2jz99]

ML easy W

[@ReturningRuh]

Al-An'am 6:115 وَتَمَّتْ كَلِمَتُ رَبِّكَ صِدْقًا وَعَدْلًاۚ لَّا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَٰتِهِۦۚ وَهُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلْعَلِيمُ The Word of your Lord is perfect in truth and justice. None is there to change His words, and He is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. Al-An'am - 6:115 Ibn Kathir وَتَمَّتْ كَلِمَتُ رَبِّكَ صِدْقًا وَعَدْلاً And the Word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. Qatadah commented, "In truth concerning what He stated and in justice concerning what He decided." Surely, whatever Allah says is the truth and He is Most Just in what He commands. All of Allah's statements are true, there is no doubt or cause for speculation about this fact, and all His commandments are pure justice, besides which there is no justice. All that He forbade is evil, for He only forbids what brings about evil consequences. Allah said in another Ayah, يَأْمُرُهُم بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَـهُمْ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ He commands them with good; and forbids them from evil... (7:157) until the end of the Ayah. لااَّ مُبَدِّلِ لِكَلِمَاتِهِ None can change His Words. meaning, none can avert Allah's judgment whether in this life or the Hereafter. وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ And He is the All-Hearer, Hearing, His servants' statements, الْعَلِيمُ The All-Knower. of their activities and lack of activity, Who awards each according to their deeds

[@mor3eb937]

Bro destroyed jay😂😂😂

[@goodbye1056]

Captain cope.

[@unicornshereen2316]

@@goodbye1056talking over your opponent doesn’t make you right 😂 You people are the copers here🥊

[@th4_h0ff10]

Bro doesnt understand. The question, "how can Jesus be god?", shows his blasphemy, not the one of the christians. The real question is, "how can anything not be god?" Which is obviously his Position. So he is saying that something exists next to god? How? It exists behind the Limits of god? THAT would make god limited. He worships multiple "gods" by saying things and persons can exist next to god.

[@EricAlHarb]

lol 😂 nope

[@Diom_des]

How though, I'm genuinely curious because Jay actually won

[@abdulamto9324]

Jay got cooked

[@SA-dl1lm]

Rip jay😂

[@thomasmalacky7864]

Where?

[@goldenratio8838]

I understand why pagan christians always gets frustrated...If I ware a christian I would be too...but El hamdu li Allah for ISLAM!

[@thomasmalacky7864]

Where did Muslim Lantern win. Cope stone licker

[@alexandersabadus8923]

Nothing more pagan than the Kaaba

[@FREEPALESTINEFTRTTSEA]

​@@alexandersabadus8923 the Kabbah isn't even an idol it's literally a cube shaped building 😂😂😂 But I know churches have blatant idols in them.. says enough.

[@alexandersabadus8923]

@@FREEPALESTINEFTRTTSEA origins of Kaaba?? Pagan worship building built pre-Islam in Arabia. You could literally never find a single hint that Abraham was ever in that region lmao