MUST SEE: When is Bulk Fermentation Done? - Episode 3 : “The Bulk-O-Matic System"

How do sourdough bakers “read the dough?” This video introduces a unique tool for helping beginning sourdough bakers determine when bulk fermentation is done. The "Bulk-O-Matic" system uses nine criteria to determine when bulk fermentation is complete. In this video, Tom bakes four loaves with different bulk fermentations and demonstrates the cues to look for at each step and analyzes the crumb of the four loaves after baking. The results are interesting and surprising!
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Chapters in this video:
0:00 Intro
1:45 The Experiment
3:03 The Recipe
7:17 When is Bulk Fermentation Done?
16:22 The Incredible Bulk-O-Matic System
17:17 Mixing the Dough
20:19 3:00 Bulk Fermentation
23:07 3:30 Bulk Fermentation Loaf #1 Done
31:03 4:15 Bulk Fermentation Loaf #2 Done
35:38 5:00 Bulk Fermentation Loaf #3 Done
41:27 5:45 Bulk Fermentation Loaf #4 Done
45:57 Scoring and Baking
48:12 Comparison of Loaves
53:25 Cutting the Loaves
1:01:17 Slicing the Loaves
1:07:12 Conclusion
1:08:32 Recommendations

[@Eclyptical]

Can't believe you are posting this absolutely masterclass for free, but boy am I glad that you are!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. It is what I do.

[@rebchagas]

This guy deserves the Nobel Prize, for peace...my husband and I stopped fighting, I was always in a bad mood because I only managed to make a decent bread after learning by watching his videos... It was 3 months of anguish without any progress... But there was a light at the end of the tunnel... I decided to give fate a chance and decided to watch one of the videos, I witnessed a miracle... He saved my marriage! Big big big fan frim brazil

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. “Saving marriages, one loaf at a time,” could be my new tag line.

[@rebchagas]

Master, I don't want to disturb you, but instead of asking for your autograph, I would like to ask you a question! What's the maximum quantity of starter you've ever used in a dough? In my country there are many bad bakers who think they know something. There are those who promise a miraculous 'recipe', Including massive amounts of starter. Does it make any sense? 50%? 70%? I never tried it because it seemed ridiculous. I appreciate your generosity. Learning from your teachings was essential for me to move forward.

[@ataisa1]

After more than two years baking sourdough I understand now in detail mu successes and failures Wonderful lecture Congratulations

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@dukemd69]

"Tom the Thinker". I have learned more about flour fermentation than all of my Biochemistry professors, combined. Calm and cohesive presentation. Your series should be copywrited. Thanks for all of your scientific efforts. A true professional!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. (It is copyrighted!)

[@BrooklynZue]

Bro...why have you been hiding from me? Your content is gold! ⭐️

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@happybackchiropractic]

You blow your competition away with such a well thought out and caring approach to bread baking. Love your charts. So empowering. Thx again Tom 🙏🏼

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank your or the feedback! I appreciate it.

[@katieberberich826]

I am so happy I found your channel. Everything you say makes sense and I’m excited to implement it in my sourdough baking. Thank you so much. 🙂

[@gravitmewara6604]

You are doing phenomenal work by creating an open source educational course. It is rare that people put out such detailed information for free as it requires very long duration for creating such videos. Would love seeing you experiment with other breads and pastries - specially sourdough croissants and sandwich loaves. Why don't you experiment with 100% wholegrain sourdough loaves?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. I have been experimenting with some whole wheat loaves but have not made a video on that topic yet. I did a recent video on “Experimenting with Bread Flours” where I used some high extraction flour loaves which you may be interested in. They bake up very much like a whole wheat loaf.

[@gravitmewara6604]

@@thesourdoughjourney I have been following 90-95% of the videos you put since past two years. :)))) Have been binging the bulk fermentation series which I missed on. Got some wonderful insights which no blog or videos provide. Definitely experiment with other baked goods too made out of sourdough, especially the laminated kind. Ps you should suggest increasing the speed of the video to folks at start to 1.5x, makes it easier to consume specially for nerd like me, specially as it is a long format content. But you can definitely edit & chop the videos a tiny bit and make them shorter by 20 minutes, as some parts are repetitive at times. But tbh, it feels like I am attending a real-time class with you, which is dope. Hehe

[@Carissa72]

Tom. I can’t thank you enough for these videos. I’m finally understanding and untangling the misinformation I was given regarding sourdough and I’m making great bread now. I almost threw away my starter in frustration last week when I made another flat, sad, gummy loaf. So glad I didn’t! And I wouldn’t even have my starter without your videos. I failed at even that until I watched your starter video! A million thanks Tom.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@bluemaki1]

You should be given an award for doing these. Thanks you so much 🙏🏼

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@chrissaalexion8232]

Completely blown away by this experiment. Soooo helpful and eye opening. Took all the mystery out of sourdough baking. Your tips on what to look for were so simple to understand and implement. Feel so much more confident about my next bake. Thanks!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback! You can also download and print a guide on my website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@zaphirshamma9531]

I enjoy your video, methodologies and humor. I have watched a lot of vids and you are my favorite. Thank you for what you are doing!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@jeriatric2001]

What a great appraisal criteria! I’m on my first strong starter loaf and followed along as I near my bulk ferment end :). My dough jiggles nicely, couple big bubbles on top, a few small bubbles on the side, a little doming, and lovely window pane. Decided to wait out another bit of time because my temp is super low 73f, and I’m more of a flour than sour smell. Thanks for helping me figure out if it’s time to shape or not!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. This method is more tailored for 80F dough temps, but the similar principles apply to cooler dough. Your dough will just be stiffer than what you see here. And you should go for a much taller percentage rise.

[@sandycove777]

I have stepped into the light. I was so lost. Cook book info just skipped over the science. I needed this so much. But this video showed me truly how to diagnose my bread making. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you, Good luck.

[@gummybear91]

You sir, have the most thoroughly explained experiments in your videos! And most helpful! Best wishes

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@GloriaJTddd]

This video, this test and examination has shown me exactly where I was wrong. I saw it in an instant, with the crumb. I can't thank you enough for this! I once made great loaves, took a 2 year hiatus, couldn't get it back. Now, I recall what I used to do. Thank you so very much!!❤❤🍞

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@GloriaJTddd]

I just finished putting my loaf into the fridge, not too long ago, and I didn't have all of the signs. Close, but it's been a long day. Took 7.5 hours in bulk, and honestly, could have used probably 30-40 minutes more. But without the knowledge that you gave me, I wouldn't have had a clue!

[@bdempster44]

Dude. What a great job. You deserve far many more views, but I assume your style doesn't quite fit in the time window that gets the millions of views. Well done. I particularly liked when you mentioned about % rise with varying temperatures. I live in Taiwan where my kitchen was at 30C all summer long and I was bulk fermenting in roughly 3-3.5 hours. The AC didn't reach there. There's no insulation here, so now that we're in winter, my kitchen is now 18C. That comment about letting your dough rise to 25% in warmer temps versus 35+% in colder was just what I needed as I'm dealing with my first time making bread in temps that are lower than 20C.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. You might also like my series “Bulk Fermentation: Mastering Temperature and Time.” I cover many tips there for warm/cold weather bakers. I’m also working on a video specifically on bulk fermenting at 32C (for people like yourself).

[@phillissuper9084]

At first I thought you were quite boring, how wrong was I! You really crack me up, very informative too!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I have a unique style. If you like my sense of humor, check out my “ Preview Video.” It is a comedy. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4PRfIKQi9KAnck

[@rationit]

Snap I tried to watch this month ago how wrong it was . Sending the love.

[@Kokeshiflower]

The Bulk Fermentation is such a tricky stage to judge, especially for an inexperienced sourdough baker. I always have trouble trying to work out 'is it ready yet?" This was an excellent educational video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. You can also download the guide at thesoursoughjourney.com.

[@user-qq2uj8mz4q]

Tom, thank you for your videos, in toto. I would say I'm a 'reasonably' experienced baker; I started when we lived in Canada with very little understanding and one 1/2 day course, and continued after we moved to Ireland in late 2019. I'm now on loaf #381. While I have learned a great deal in the intervening period (primary resources are Kristin D. of 'Foolproof Baking', Trevor J. Wilson, of 'Breadwerx', and Maurizio Leo of 'The Perfect Loaf') from time to time I still get 'stuck'. Most recently, I realised my inconsistent loaves were due to my not being really 'precise' with my starter and levain, and when I started being more careful about this my consistency improved. But I was still not consistently achieving the results I wanted and came to the conclusion that it was because I wasn't 'managing' bulk fermentation. Your series is unique in terms of its depth, and your monograph linking dough temperature to % rise really provided me with a 'eureka' moment. I'm still 'on the journey' but I really appreciate your helping hand!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@LynnKos]

This makes me feel So much better!! Thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Great. 👍

[@owenchen6576]

I missed my Science lessons and you Sir have given me the tools to analyse my sourdough bakes. Thank you very much.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Also check out Episode 4 of this series where I continue this experiment into overproofed loaves.

[@tammysusewitz3804]

This was absolutely amazing, Tom. I really respect your knowledge and input. Thanks for sharing this video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@pinnaclecomputersolutions8461]

Wow! Just WOW!! Thank you, Tom

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Also check out my website. Lots of great content there.

[@joshz6975]

This is exactly what I was looking for, I know they say baking is an art, but my mind can be very analytical and I love evidence based things like this that tell me what I'm doing wrong. Great content!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@jimfromri]

Another pure gold video. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@ThePhilbox]

Love the methodical systematic approach...tons to be learned here. You are doing great work!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@nroestroff]

Your videos are very informative and scientific. Wonderful 🍞

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@tracey278]

Fantastic! Iv printed the bulk fermentation chart and I’m going to try my own study, I recently did the German fennel SL from Food geek , did the mixing, did the stretch and folds the loaf from mixing stretch and 25% rise came in around 5 hours my kitchen was 21* then it was another 30 minutes for PS - shaping then it was into the fridge for up to 12- 24 hours, I made 2 loaves, the first one was taken straight from the fridge after 12 hours to the preheated Dutch oven , looking at the finished loaf and comparing it with your chart on crumb it looked like a kitchen sponge, flat dense, gummy definitely under proofed . On taking it out of the fridge before the bake I poked it , it didn’t feel airy, it was hard and didn’t look like it had risen in the fridge stay , I kind of knew it was going to be a dud but I pressed on anyway, second loaf 24 hours in fridge, came out looking a bit more puffy, I let it sit out in the bench 22*kitchen I poked it until it slowly pushed back baked it , kind of thinking it’s not reached its potential, and yes iv been disappointed once again , flat, dense, but the crumb was a bit more open, thank god you can still enjoy the bread toasted , my chooks and dogs will eat it. Back to the drawing board and now going to compare my dough to your bulk, a Matic chart , I will let you know how I get on in my next bake , hello 👋 from Australian love your research keep up the good work !

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. The 25% rise only works if your dough temp is closer to 27C. The temp and % rise are inextricably linked. Because the warm temp continues into the fridge and keeps fermenting the dough rapidly until it cools down to fridge temp.

[@juanjuan5314]

Great video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@mirazimi]

Truly appreciate the scientific approach.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@ataisa1]

Outstanding lecture Unique,scientific and precise I learned so much Thank you

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@neelams6828]

You are a awesome teacher 🥰

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@DANVIIL]

Another excellent video! Do you think that your starter is up to full strength because in an earlier video you said your starter was relatively new? It would be interesting to do 4 loaves with 30% rise and correct temperature and add no shaping, only preshaping, only final shaping and one with preshaping and final shaping to see the result on the loaves or have you already done that?.. Thanks for taking the time to develop what is now known as the world-renowned, "Bulk-O-Matic Sourdough System".

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I feel like this starter is about 80% full strength now. I really tended to it between the last video and this one and strengthened it substantially. It still has a little more to go, but it performed at average to above-average performance in this this video. And that prior mishap was more likely to using the starter well past peak when I made the leaven versus the inherent strength of the starter. I have a 3 part series on your other question - "In Search of Open Crumb" 1) Impact of Final Shaping on Open Crumb kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOyqpysnah_apI 2) Impact of Pre-Shaping on Open Crumb kzbin.info/www/bejne/maWmf2p7lNCqpKc 3) Impact of Bulk Fermentation on Open Crumb kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXKxand4qMRnrpI Those are really fascinating videos. Part 4 of the The Impact of Bulk Fermentation on Open Crumb is particularly interesting. That was the last of the series and I do a good recap of everything I learned.

[@ydhb6169]

I seriously don't know what to say. Thank you so much for this amazing information. It really helped my life since I am a baker. Thank you so much sir.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@CiarliBraun90]

Thank you very much for taking the time and running the experiments! This was very well put together and really helpful. My last batch of sourdough was very disappoint (I baked two round frisbees, sigh) and after watching your videos I realized that it may be because I left my dough bulk fermenting for ~8h.. I will try again this week, this time I'll be more precise with the temperature and volume. Thanks again!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. Good luck with your next loaf. Please report back on how it goes.

[@pseudosourdoughscience]

Thanks for all the great content! I wondered if you ever considered the "poke-test" as part of the Bulk-O-Matic system?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. The poke test is typically used for shaped loaves, not for bulk fermented dough.

[@barrychambers4047]

That loaf #4 looks really good to me! Tom since sourdough cultures vary the world over doesn't make since that they all are going to behave a little differently- like, different fermentation speeds? Maybe we should just throw the timing chart out the window. My sourdough never even rises anywhere close to on time!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. The timing guidance is a good starting point for beginners, but is secondary to all the other variables, as illustrated here.

[@lauracooper6549]

Need to print this off!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Here is the guide. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Bulk-O-Matic-V1-04_25_21.pdf

[@lauracooper6549]

Thank you! I printed off all of your available downloads yesterday.

[@ckrs478]

Great video Tom! Can you say what the hydration of the dough was that was used in this bulk fermentation comparison video?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

75% hydration.

[@lolajacomino6574]

One more time, THANK YOU!!! Just to reiterate, so, bulk fermentation starts once the flour, starter salt and water are added? Right? I wish you had a video where I could see you incorporating the salt and why not to incorporate the salt since the beginning? Thank you!!! Would like to hear from you 🤷🏻‍♀️🥖

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. The bulk fermentation clock starts when you add the starter. Shock out my “Art and Alchemy” series. I explain and show all the steps in detail. Salt slows down fermentation, so by delaying adding the salt, it jumpstarts the fermentation.

[@KateGirl90]

Love this structured approach with the bulk-a-matic. Will try to implement it during my next bake. How would this scale translate to 100% strong whole wheat (13g+ protein) using the same method?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

It will ferment faster, and may not quite “show the rise” as much. I’d still try for 30-35% rise the first time and see how it goes.

[@franciscocarlini3336]

Thank You, so helpful! It would be interesting to see what happens in 40% to 60% rise

[@thesourdoughjourney]

That will be in Episode 4 next week.

[@franciscocarlini3336]

@@thesourdoughjourney I can't wait! Also you may try using an aliquot jar to monitor the real rise without the folding

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@franciscocarlini3336 Good recommendation on the aliquot. I'll incorporate that into my next video. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@aksourdough4890]

Aha!! That's what has fooled me, the folding does give a very false measure of rise particularly the two hand lift and fold over.

[@josegomezgil1924]

The Incredible Bulk-O-Matic System ™ © Patent Pending by The International Academy for Sourdough Baking, Arts and Sciences of Cleveland, Ohio ! 🙌 🙌 🙌

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@aksourdough4890]

Act now! Supplies are limited!

[@keithgrima5271]

One remark, rather then increasing/decreasing bulk time, why not just go directly with rise %? The formula can even be simplified, for example bubble visibility can be ignored all together as rise comes from gas bubbles, thus making the "prediction" even easier. So my point is, if rise is the ultimate metric most monitoring such as temperature can be ignored, ofcourse fermenting at high temperatures will make it challenging as it will make it harder to get enough S&Fs in. Please correct me if I am wrong and thanks for your video, extremely informative and scientific.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. See Episode 8, it disproves this theory of % rise as ultimate measure. I also believed it would work until that experiment. You will also see in some other episodes that the bubble activity subsides and the rise stalls out but keeps fermenting. Particularly with a weak starter or warm temperatures. % rise is still probably the best indicator but has proven to not be foolproof.

[@judysstudios]

Thank you for the Bulk Fermentation Done series and the Bulk- O -Matic System. The bulk fermentation has been clearly explained and demonstrated, yet I'm still NOT sure about the FINAL proof. Is there a Final-Proof-O-Matic System?? I understand that almost every sourdough expert final proof in the fridge for 8-12 hours. Nonetheless, I'm not sure WHAT signs to go about if final proof in the room temperature, even though Tartine method does indicates the few hours. Nobody on the internet really offers a clear explanation of the SIGNS, CONDITIONS, or system for FINAL proofing. Would you mind looking into making a video about the final proofing?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I have that on my list of future videos. I’d you are doing a cold retard in the fridge., you won’t really see any visible indications in the dough, in fact the dough often shrinks in the fridge. That is why it is so critical to get the cutoff for bulk fermentation correct. If you cut off bulk fermentation correctly and your refrigerator temperature is consistent and reliable, you can get very consistent results without worrying about final,proofing. It just works anywhere between 12-24 hours in the fridge. However, I’d you are doing a countertop proof at room temperature, the best test is the “poke test.” It is quite reliable but takes a little practice to read the reaction of the dough. Flour your fingertip and firmly poke the dough. If it fully spring back quickly, it needs more time. If it slowly and partially springs back it is ready to bake. If it doesn’t fully spring back and a deep indentation remains, it is overproofing and should be baked right away. You can probably find some videos on this topic. I don’t use it often because I almost always do a cold retard. But I will do a video demonstrating this technique. Note, it does not work on cold dough coming out of the fridge. Only on room temp, final proofed dough.

[@judysstudios]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you so much for your prompt and detailed reply! I had watched quite a few finger poke test videos, before posting the question here. Nonetheless, my finger poke tests don't seem accurate (almost always show perfect fermentation done, no matter what). Thank you in advanced as well for the incoming video about it. You've been very helpful. Thanks

[@NikoOkamoto]

Tom, thank you so much for this video and especially the whole mini-series "When is Bulk Fermentation Done?" I've been baking sourdough bread fairly regularly for over three years now and still find myself mystified and frustrated by bulk fermentation. My crumbs are all over the place! So my big question is: using the Bulk-O-Matic system, when do you call it? Like, when more than 1/2 the markers are in the zone? I'm not sure but I suspect I could be consistently overproofing, based on my looking for bubbles and an airy wobble, rather than % of rise. If you had to weight the Bulk-O-Matic factors, is there a pecking order?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

% rise is the first thing always look for, and lately I’ve been pushing closer to 35-40% with that recipe, then all the other indicators are “confirming” indicators. The smell is also a big one for me. But that takes some practice. And putting your hands on the dough helps, so I do the windowpane often too. Bubbles and such are less important.

[@hahathatsgreat2]

Thanks again Tom. You understand a lot about this process. Have you thought about experimenting with the flour composition in future experiments? I think one major confounding factor in my baking is trying to use rye, spelt, or even oats. I made a really nice tastings variant of the Tartine load using 20% oat flour. It never really rose much even after 5 hours at 84 F.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Great idea. Yes, I've been working on some test batches with different flours and plan to do a video in this series showing the impact of different flour on bulk fermentation.

[@hahathatsgreat2]

@@thesourdoughjourney Awesome, I'll keep experimenting on with my own blends and look forward to your thoughts! People I give baked goods to are often impressed how quickly I was able to become proficient at baking with wild yeast. I always tell them the all the credit goes to KZbin channels like this one.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@hahathatsgreat2 thank you for the feedback.

[@nancypeterson2489]

Nice scientific explanation of the process. Quick question. Are you putting the dough in a proofer between stretch and folds or for any extended length of time during the process. Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I put the dough in my oven with the light on. 80F/27C. If it exceeds 80F, I leave it on the counter until the next S&F. I check the dough temp every 30 min.

[@boomster57]

Do you have a version of the Bulk-O-Matic that has a white background not black? Or is there a software version with sliders like you show? Great video as always.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Black and white template is on the last page of the bulk o matic printable guide. No software version yet.

[@boomster57]

D'oh didn't scroll to the bottom, thanks!

[@lisataylor9600]

Tom - I love your videos - thank you for this. I do have a question. I'm in the process of a pretty basic recipe - the KA No-Knead. It calls for 2.5 to 3 hours of bulk fermentation (with S&F) then up to 48 hours in the fridge. I was tired and it was late when I put it in the fridge. Now that I'm watching this, I know it wasn't fully fermented. So, what can I do now? It's been in the fridge for about 12 hours. Can I take it out, let it get to room temp and continue that BF or is it too late? The dough looks good and had a decent window pane when it went into the fridge but I'd like to give it more time to ferment and not sure if that will happen in the fridge or if it can come out for that.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes get it back up to room temp and keep going.

[@erikamarie2787]

This is a very good video. I recently started paying more attention to the dough and not at the clock, and I came across the same observations as you. I ended up bulk proofing close to 6-7 hours (when I usually bulk ferment for max 4 hours) with a cold retard of close to 13-14 hours, and surprisingly it proofed well.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I have three videos on the shaping topic in my Open Crumb series: 1) Impact of Final Shaping on Open Crumb kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJOyqpysnah_apI 2) Impact of Pre-Shaping on Open Crumb kzbin.info/www/bejne/maWmf2p7lNCqpKc 3) Impact of Bulk Fermentation on Open Crumb kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXKxand4qMRnrpI The shaping definitely can impact the crumb, and what I found in these videos is that in many cases the shaping makes the crumb worse than what it looks like coming out of bulk fermentation. It is a fascinating, educational series.

[@rollingboil]

Hi Tom, thank you for making these videos, I find them very informative! I am very surprised at what great results you are getting in these loaves without any shaping whatsoever! Have you considered that some of the slight irregularities in the loaves (such as the dense strips along the bottom), particularly in the ones that are closer to fully proofed (3 and 4) may be remedied by shaping? My guess is that it could help distribute the bubbles a bit more evenly. I am new to your channel so maybe you have investigated this in another video, but just wanted to share my thoughts and thank you again for your experiments.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Good question. That strip along the bottom is a very consistent sign of underproofing even with shaped loves. I’ve tried it both was and find the “crumb autopsies” are more true without shaping than with shaping. If,you watch episode 1 of this series you’ll see the Sam experiment with shaping. I believe it introduces more irregularity than not. And I have some other videos where I isolate the impact of shaping on the crumb (pre and final).

[@rollingboil]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you! That makes sense to me, especially after watching those other videos.

[@TheJamesOutlaw]

So interesting! I do wonder when it shows the temperature range though. Does the dough heat up during fermentation on its own too? For example if I am bulk fermenting in a 70F environment I would think the dough would stay in that range. But would it heat up due to the microbial activity to 78 when the fermentation is near done?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Good question. I am using a proofing chamber per this specific recipe which calls for warm fermentation a and a shorter time. The fermenting dough is exothermic, meaning it creates its own heat, but the impact is very small. I've see 80-degree dough pick up one or two degrees at it nears the end of bulk fermentation, but generally speaking the exothermic effect is not material. At least not in any of my experiments where I monitor the temperature very closely. If you keep the dough in an enclosed space, like the oven with the light on and door closed, you will find it heating up after, maybe 6 hours, but by then it is probably overproofing. Some of my later videos on this series (Episode 7) looks t different temperatures.

[@user-rk9ci8sd7z]

Thank you so much for these videos-they are SO helpful! I have a quick question. What if my temperature goes down during bulk fermentation. For example...if the dough temperature starts at 77 degrees and then measures 73 degrees a few hours into bulk fermentation. Should I look for a % rise based on my initial dough temperature or the current dough temperature?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Good question. Use the ending temperature. That is what carries forward into the downstream steps.

[@user-rk9ci8sd7z]

Ok-great. Thank you for answering!

[@joestubbs3138]

I am intrigued with your results - understanding that Temperature and Time are significantly important during Bulk Fermentation for the development of the Crumb than the Artistic pre/final shaping has on the crumb ...joe

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I’ve done many tests on this topic. It is all about bulk fermentation. The shaping steps have very little impact on the crumb.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I first experimented with this in the video series “In Search of Open Crumb” where I isolate the impact of final shaping, preshaping and bulk fermentation on open crumb. Then in my “When is Bulk Fermentation Done” series, in all 8 episodes, I bake loaves with not pre or final shaping. Lots of examples showing that it really works.

[@werguitar]

Totally agreed. I think that the "feeling" argument is justified because of the lack of sistematization.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback. Totally agree.

[@RowanReed-ml1pb]

Can I still use this system with 100% plain ole bread flour? Or does BF need to go longer since there's no wheat? Love your videos, thank you so much!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes you can use it. Time is the last indicator to look at. All other factors would be the same with or without whole wheat. Thanks!

[@BF40JOE]

So if I am following your guidance, using Tartine method, achieving these fermentation markers, and STILL getting gummy/flat loaves.... likely a starter issue ya reckon?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. It sounds like a starter issue. Assuming you are keeping the dough temperature in the bulk fermentation temperature range.

[@dreyno64]

I have to ask: what is your day job? NASA? Some type of engineer? I’m really digging this forensic analysis! I will make a major effort to resist Wishfulness or Lying to Myself….(I am a luckless serial starter starter so my expectations are generally pretty low)

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I recently retired from 30 years in business consulting and finance. But I’ve always been more interested in science and experimentation, so this is a great fit for me.

[@dreyno64]

@@thesourdoughjourney I knew it had to be some sort of analytical job. I’m tickled you found sourdough for an outlet. Your videos give me hope that I might just get the hang of this….and IF I don’t I just might figure out why!

[@klaskristian1]

I always go by look, not time. You mentioned the smell. Very intresting. Thank you for learning me this!. This seems pretty obvious when i think about it. Fermented foods smells sweet. I will incorpiate this. I go buy volume increase, bubbles and wobbling of the dough. The overall feel and look of the dough. I tend to take the dough from bulk little early if i proof it over night just cos it still ferment in the fridge. I still struggles with thus even when i have baked for some year. My belief is that the condition of the starter is very important. It should not be too sour. It should be young and i think it should be used just before it peaks. Also, clever not shaping it? If there is good gluten maybe it is nit necessary? I will defenatly try this

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes, I agree. I don't recall when I realized the "smell" test. But it has proven to be very reliable for me.

[@klaskristian1]

@@thesourdoughjourney Can you make a vudeo hiw you feed your starter days before baking bread. That should be intresting

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@klaskristian1 Yes, I've done quite a few experiments with this. I'll add that do my list of future videos.

[@Spillane001]

This may be off topic but how do you clean your pastry mat? I have one and used it when I started making sourdough bread but ended up on formica counter because the mat never felt clean because it flops around the sink and I don't put it in dishwasher. It always seems like one side or the other has some water or flour water on it. And then it won't fit in any drying rack and drips all over counter. What do you do?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I scrub it with a scrubbie sponge after use, rinse it and stand it on end in my sink to dry. It is awkward to wash and dry. And if you don’t wash it thoroughly it loses its grip on both sides.

[@aksourdough4890]

Tom, have you considered the size of loaf as a variable in crumb result? I.e. making four loaves vs. two out of same amt of dough.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Great question. Yes, over the course of my many experiments, I can say that it is harder to get a really nice open crumb on smaller loaves and it gets easier as the loaf size increases. The small loaves don't have as much room to open up as larger loaves, but the crumb patterns related to bulk fermentation are identical and unmistakable. I've probably baked 100 or so loaves of different sizes under controlled experiments and can say this with confidence. But, yes, I'm also also quite sure that I could generally get better looking crumbs on larger loaves in general. I assume that the crumb I'm getting on these small loaves is slightly less open than on large loaves, but helps build my skills at the same time so the large loaves seem much easier. There is also the possibility that the small loaves heat to the center of the loaf more quickly than larger loaves, but I have not seen any evidence indicating that it is impacting the nature of the crumb. But is a good question. I can do an experiment where I just vary vary the loaf sizes and see how that looks (250g, 333g, 500g flour weights).

[@aksourdough4890]

Thanks Tom. I'm now doing three loaves instead of two so as to keep smaller loaves fresher. Have not noticed much difference. After seeing this, I'm going to play with little longer ferment times.

[@ricanrod8258]

Just curious. Are you using a CDK deck knife? If so, where can I get one? I heard that they were coated with silicon, or something, so bread dough doesn't stick to it.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes, I do use the CDK bench knife, it does have a nonstick coating, it is slightly better than my old stainless steel one. I bought both the 6” and 8” sizes. I use both both for different sized loaves. I probably use the small one a little more often. I bought it online here. www.rackmaster.co.uk/product/campbells-dough-knife/

[@ricanrod8258]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thanks for the link. And your video's on fermentation, are great.

[@dharm9902]

Where do you get the bulk o matic tool from? I want one. I wish Santa brought me one for Christmas mi may have had more successful loaves

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback. I’m still perfecting it over the next few videos.

[@nesschap]

Help! Help! What if it is not going in the fridge. Sandwich Bread. Should I increase the rise?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. It needs to go a bit higher rise in bulk fermentation if not going in fridge.

[@nesschap]

@@thesourdoughjourney thank you so much for answering!!

[@happyplank]

what is the ambient temperature in the room?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Usually around 72-74F.

[@GertJanKuiper]

One of the breads we make suffered too often from insufficient over spring and we couldn't find a reliable fix. So, long story short, after investing several hours watching what you methodically experimented and the help of the nifty Bulk-o-matic way of thinking the problem seems to be solved. A good bulk rise is king ;-) The question I have is: there are lots of recipes that state the temperature, bulk rise % and time, but for example Hamelman only mentions time. Even with a ciabatta there is no indication of the % rise. Do you have any idea why that is? Or should a professional baker just know when the bulk rise if finished?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I am not sure why. I believe they think you should be able to “read the dough.”

[@cakewhite]

What is your percent of starter in this test? Thanks

[@thesourdoughjourney]

20%. Same in all experiments unless otherwise noted.

[@cakewhite]

@@thesourdoughjourney thanks!

[@ohnajat]

Hahaaaa intro made me laugh so much

[@thesourdoughjourney]

😀

[@troyheald77]

AAA+++Bedford, Texas

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!