How to Strengthen a Weak Starter

Proven techniques including the "peak to peak" feeding method for strengthening a weak sourdough starter. In this video we cover:
1. What is a "strong" starter
2. How does the daily feeding cycle work
3. Understanding 1:1:1 feeding
4. How to strengthen a weak starter
5. Common mistakes
CORRECTION: I indicate in this video that the Tartine book recommends a 1:1:1 feeding ration, but it actually recommends 1:2:2.
If you find this video helpful, please subscribe to my channel, The Sourdough Journey."
Thank you,
Tom Cucuzza
The Sourdough Journey
Cleveland, Ohio
==================== NEW WEBSITE =====================
CHECK OUT THE NEW WEBSITE thesourdoughjourney.com
======================================================
Sections in this video:
0:00 Introduction
0:48 What is a "strong starter?"
3:18 Who is the appropriate audience for this video?
4:09 How do I strengthen a weak starter?
6:35 7 Stages of the Starter Feeding Cycle
12:45 Understanding the 1:1:1 Feeding Ratio
14:20 How to Strengthen a Weak Starter
14:33 Method 1: Optimize Temperature
18:08 Method 2: Additional Nutrients
20:30 Peak-to-Peak Feeding
23:06 Common Mistakes
23:33 Mistake 1 - Overfeeding
25:34 Mistake 2 - Increase Feeding Frequency
27:12 Mistake 3 - Adding Commercial Yeast
28:40 Summary

[@rajulshah1113]

You're not just a genius at this, you're supremely funny. Learning a huge deal and love your sense of humor.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.

[@ChristopherJones-cjphoto]

Finally, a very detailed description of what we are all trying to achieve. Thanks so much!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Glad it was helpful!

[@flowerbomb333]

Isn’t that the truth ! Tom makes things very clear and understandable ....

[@snowbird6855]

My starter is completely rye flour and I've been learning sourdough bread baking using spelt flour recipes. The loaves are improving but I'm not fully there yet. Ultimately I want to transition to einkorn flour sourdough bread only!!

[@tinamcclenahan8775]

Thank you!! I know this video was years ago but I'm finding it incredibly helpful and appreciate it so much @@thesourdoughjourney

[@dave83x]

Fantastic creation! Finally something informative with peaceful voice without annoying hype, well done!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my website. Here’s one page thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-strengthening/

[@joelkorotzer8806]

Hi again Tom, Due to you video on strengthening a weak starter and your recent suggestions, Larry, my 25 year old sourdough starter, is a new man. I've done peak feeding for the last 2 days and can't believe how active he is. With my rejuvenated starter and your brilliant Bulk-O-Matic I feel confident t that I will soon be turning out excellent bread. Joel

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback. Good luck! I’ve found that my loaves improved, all around, once my starter was stronger.

[@tabathadominguez5515]

I am SO grateful for this video. My start went from being sluggish to more than doubling in four hours based on your tips from this video. Thought I should circle back and thank you for that. Much appreciated.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I am happy it worked for you.

[@kimwalker9506]

So question for clarity I feed my starter 1:3:3 and I feel it's getting too level 5-6. So from my understanding that is right where I want it to be correct? So in my case to boost it I should add a little rye every now and again. I currently store them in the microwave to keep them warm. They do double or more in size I would say by 8th hour tops if warm. Slower if just on counter.

[@daisyskippi]

You are a very good teacher. I learned so much by watching this video. Can’t wait to see the results of applying these directives. Thanks again.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Also check out my website. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-strengthening/

[@easilystartled2203]

I've gone through SO MANY videos and links and most of them covered the same square inch of advice and got me absolutely no where. This actually has information and clarity, thank you!!! I'll give some of these pointers a try and see if I can't get my starter into the 'robust' portion of the sourdough spectrum :D

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Here’s another one to consider. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2GygKl_nKiXr5Y

[@easilystartled2203]

@@thesourdoughjourney Oh wow, thank you!

[@lenaagrj]

THANK YOU so much. It's so hard to find reliable, clear, complete and high-quality information on sourdough! Thank you

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Also check out my website for more info. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-creation/

[@annielivingstone7613]

Tom, love, love, love your channel. Thank you for being so thorough! You are very generous with your knowledge and it is appreciated, regards from Oz

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback.

[@manju331]

Thanks so much for all your videos Tom. As a new sour dough home baker I really do appreciate your generosity. 💜

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@DANVIIL]

A very cogent and valuable explanation of how to strengthen your starter, thanks.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@masterkimmen]

Best video I have every watched on KZbin about yeast starter. The video is really simple and straight forward. Full of logic and reasoning without the bullshit for clicks you see on other channels.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com.

[@markbraxton1289]

Best coverage of sowdough starters ever...thank you Sir 😊❤

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Here is an updated video on this topic. NEW!: How to Strengthen a Weak, ACIDIC Starter (A Barnyard Tragedy) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnPLdIuiiNZpfZo

[@margaretstaples6374]

You are the best, most informative sourdough teacher for someone like me trying to learn all I can while waiting for my starter to mature. Your humor is a great blessing as well in a world so fraught with bad news. I wish you lived next door! Blessings to you and yours! 😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the feedback.

[@topdocwbrepair]

Mr Tom, (Yes you have earned the title of "Mr) your demeanor, disciplined patience, learned humility, your transparency, academic approach, organization of digital “Mise en place” all have earned you the title of “Mr Tom”. You mentioned you are from Cleveland Ohio. I have a best friend in Marion Ohio and his brother, has a law practice in Columbus Ohio. I consider them as members of the “Mr” Club. Notice, no period after the Mr, because no-one gets an automatic definite until his obituary is written. All that to say much more than a big thank you for your excellent approach to teaching. I am learning and practicing. and will be sticking to one Mr Tom for my beginning journey into sourdough bread baking. Just like what you say about sticking to a recipe until you got it ingrained into you, so it must be with the teacher in our lives. Find a teacher that resonates with you and extract all the yeast in them and when you become a healthy starter you can start mixing with other teachers. (Leaving 25% yeast in you so that you can be fed with compliments and bake more students). THANK YOU!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@cristiansebastiancontreras7191]

Thank you so much for those amazing tips

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You’re welcome. Thank you for the feedback!

[@ESSPY61]

Your detailed and clear explanations are a delight !!! Thank you so much for doing this.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback.

[@bobsheridan6692]

I just came across your video and it makes so much sense. Thanks for your explanation and suggestions of strengthening and maintaining a strong starter.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@scmarih]

Great information! Thank you for sharing.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@valeriya105]

WOW excellent video! I bake and sell sourdough and ran into a problem this week and could not figure out how to get the strength back to my starter! I baked amazing loafs until they didn't rise anymore and that threw me for such a loop, thank you for this video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@broma3974]

Love this! Thank you for the extensive video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@boupartac]

Way to go! Good job and thank you Tom!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@marilynwharton1916]

Great video. I learned a lot, and can’t thank you enough for sharing your time and knowledge with us.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@recipeswithjay]

Thanks for this! Just just what I needed to see on my sourdough starter journey

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@tereservsherman4318]

Thank you very much for this excellent video! I definitely learned a lot of things!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@ankaracatalca]

Such a clear mind.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@michaeljohnrizzo6643]

Hi Tom, I just discovered your channel and I am thrilled! The thing I have truly missed from many of the other sourdough tutorials by some great bakers are the “details”. Sourdough baking is so much about the science and so many bakers either skim over these details or refuse to discuss them at all because “they don’t care about that stuff”. Your videos have given me a lot of insight and since I have only been on my sourdough journey for 3 months, your tutorials have given me many opportunities to improve my game and have armed me with many more questions, which is a good thing! Thanks again!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@cyklandetidsoptimisten]

Thank you for great information. Many things got clear to me now 👌🏻

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Good luck!

[@samuellam5614]

Thank you! I frequently make the first 2 common mistakes you mentioned, especially in winter. Very useful video.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@shirleydtaylor6846]

Thankyou so much for your info.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@eloisajose-baquet1413]

Very enlightening. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@elizabethlowrey1976]

Great tips! Much thanks.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@mishajones2635]

This was immensely helpful! Thank you so much for this video.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Also check out this related video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXeyZmZoeJh4d68

[@catmintable]

Great information, thanks.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@clairbellatv]

Just the video I need! Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Everyone seems to be struggling with this right now as temperatures have changed with the change of seasons.

[@teslarex]

Thank You Professor!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You are welcome!

[@pattyinsandy]

Very good.Thank you Tom❤

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@danac2491]

Thank you Tom, I found this so interesting and informative, so much so I had to hear more and listened to several other videos you have shared. And will continue to do so. Thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@achil19]

what an amazing video. so much value. thank you so much.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Also check out my website. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-strengthening/

[@davewatson3833]

Excellent, thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

You are welcome!

[@cstephens4387]

Appreciate the image and detailed descriptions of the stages and indicators. Thx!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Check out more info here too. thesourdoughjourney.com/encyclopedia/

[@ltfuzz1]

Good information! Just what I needed for Sunday afternoon, trying to figure out my baking schedule when I have to be gone far away on Wednesday and then Friday and Saturday.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@sharynlindsay7069]

Wonderful video! Very concise, sensible and thorough. I am a formally pastry chef in dire need some direction having not baked sourdough in a few years, this was a tremendous help- THANK YOU! :)

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. You may like my series “Tartine Bread: The Art and Alchemy.” It is my most detailed instructional series for intermediate sourdough bakers.

[@alessioboscarino1644]

Incredible and detailing explanation of what and why happen to a sourdought. Thank you very much for these information express in such a good and calm way, you help me a lot.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@moemanm1202]

man, you are like a godsend. you answered questions i didnt even know i would have

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@Gwar7]

That's exactly what I needed, Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@valeriepagendarm6376]

The photos of the stages is genius! Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@tracey278]

Tom I just would just like to say thank you 🙏🏽 for your knowledge- dedication and humour , I’m so happy to have found your channel, iv been baking sourdough for about 7 years now and I’m still learning! Your in-depth studies are going to definitely help me , I know most of my issues are because I’m not organised and are fermentation issues , but one thing you have repeatedly mentioned is fermentation is the key and that is a area I do need to work on , I have been using the fridge most of the time because we live in Australia and it gets very hot here ,,, and can I also say I’m so happy to know I don’t need to heat my oven to astronomic temperatures to get a good rise ! Iv been wasting so much Electricity! I’m going to give the cold oven and cold Dutch oven a go and see what happens, man you really get into the nitty-gritty of everything sourdough but hey I get you a lot of other channels that are very scientific. I just don’t get it but I get you! Cheers from Australia 💙🇦🇺

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. I appreciate it and I’m available to help at any time.

[@elianeporfirio8663]

Wow!! What a lesson. Thank you so much.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@pattic200]

Thanks Tom, I appreciate your knowledge and science in this sourdough journey 😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@barbaracattell6765]

Thank you so much for your videos, love how easy it is to follow your instructions, have been wanting to do this for a long time...

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@eneal2056]

This was an excellent tutorial that was very helpful and informative. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@valjalava1951]

Yes thanks so much

[@thesourdoughjourney]

🙂

[@brittse]

Im starting a starter-its a month old- I inadvertently found this looking for something in my new bread life great video! I rewound to rewatch the dime bag a few times 🤣 made my morning 🌅🤣

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Good Luck. Also check out my video on how to create a new starter.

[@beevees1636]

Thank you Sir. I will never stop to thank you for every video you make.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback.

[@sophielee4499]

OMG, this channel is like a life saver for my sourdough starter. I love the details and academic explanation. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com. Lots of good info there also.

[@rapatsaa]

Great video, thank you so much for this.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@humblesense]

Thanks a lot for picking up this topic.Really appreciate the thorough explanation ❤❤️❤️

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Here is a newer video on this topic. NEW!: How to Strengthen a Weak, ACIDIC Starter (A Barnyard Tragedy) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnPLdIuiiNZpfZo

[@jbridgehall4]

Thank you! Now I get it!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Great!

[@alwynn2233]

Hands down, this is the best video I’ve seen to explain to me why my starter has been behaving as it has (that time I was sad and mystified when I went to use my starter and it was completely flat and runny) and and how to manage my starter. I’m now filled with joy. I can now continue confidently on the path to the perfect loaf. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my new video on the impact of premature discarding. Similar topic.

[@thomassievers5889]

Great hints! The boost with rye was just what my starter needed 👌 Tnks!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@roki5337]

I appreciate your thoroughness with the s ience of starters.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks.

[@brendabarrett7327]

Your video saved my sourdough starter (and my sanity)! I’ve never made a starter before. I was getting frustrated and didn’t know what I was doing wrong. I tried multiple things but couldn’t get my starter to rise at all. I was about to give up when I found your video. I followed your advice, discarded all but a small portion of the starter, then fed 1:1:1. Literally the next day my starter began to rise and by day two it was more than doubling in size! I’m four days out now and my starter is tripling in size in 4 hours. Yay! I can’t wait to make my first loaf of sourdough bread and I will be sure to watch your videos on that. Thank you Tom!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Good luck.

[@thewraiths8963]

Very clear and understandable video. Thank you very much

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com.

[@stmarypaul]

I've been looking for someone to take me through the nitty gritty science of it so I have a solid understanding & can improve my process. Thank you so much for the excellent video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! Also check out my website. thesourdoughjourney.com

[@ginaooi6522]

Enjoying your videos. Thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@larainehaswell2471]

Thanks for the science love your videos

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback.

[@MyAlbertC]

Very nice, I appreciate the science teaching methods. 😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my website.

[@leelaplay8480]

I'm new to sourdough and just found your informative and entertaining videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge in such an accessible manner. What a treat. Breadmaking is a touch of a challenge for me as I'm mostly bedbound so getting up to monitor the starter or bread as bulk fermenting isn't always possible. I'm baking one loaf at a time for myself. Have been trying keeping the starter in the fridge as even the time standing up to feed the starter daily can be impossible. I know you prefer the daily feeding method, but hope you'll consider a video on keeping starter in the fridge and all involved with that - feed at what ratio; then how long later put it into the fridge; any temp requirements; when to take it out before baking and what to do....... I have always loved sourdough and am not finding much acceptable bread to order online from the stores near me so really want to make this work. Besides my specific needs, I know many people want to use the fridge method for various reasons so you could help many of us.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Once you have a strong starter, you can definitely keep it in the fridge. Most people do a 1:1:1 feeding per week if they are not baking and just maintaining in the fridge. If you plan to bake, take it out a day before and do 1 or 2 feedings before baking. Some people do not even do this and they just use the unfed starter straight from the fridge. You might also want to look into overnight sourdough recipes which require less handling. Here is a popular one. cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018028-sourdough-no-knead-bread

[@Bassbarbie]

I have watched two of your videos and have learnt so much. I have a fairly new and seemingly happy starter, and I now feel prepared to keep it that way. New subscriber 🙂

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@solomon1052]

Great work the real illustration helps allot

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@chimanchoi7069]

Revisiting your videos. Still find it very informative! You should write a book. Looking forward to your next videos.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@brendaleetaylor9566]

You Are Awesome. Such a scientist!! Love your videos!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@danielnichols3594]

Very helpful. I've made a few of these mistakes including feeding at higher ratios (1:2:2 or 1:3:3) when the seasons are changing, i.e., summer > winter. I'm going back to a 1:1:1 and see how this affects the strength of my starter.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I always recommend starting with 1:1:1 and monitor your temperature and the 7 stages to really get a consistent cycle. Then if 1:1:1 is just not enough food to make it to the next day, then go up to 1:2:2 if needed for daily maintenance. For strengthening, go to peak to peak rather than just giving it more food.

[@anaconnors3490]

Great video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@ecs5809]

I'm a little late to the party, but thank you so much for this incredibly informative video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. There are some additional tools here now too. thesourdoughjourney.com/research/

[@kaylynnosburn4305]

Wow you sure know how to make a helpful video! God bless you! Thank you

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@MilahanPhilosophersCorner]

Educational. Thank you.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney,com for more info.

[@janetdarrow6406]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. Also check this out. thesourdoughjourney.com/how-to-strengthen-and-deacidify-a-weak-starter-the-peak-to-peak-method/

[@janetdarrow6406]

I did the peak to peak and it worked wonderfully!@@thesourdoughjourney

[@tskstar]

Congrats from Brazil, Tom. These videos you posted are really helpful and make everything clear. It's not just a "cake recipe" like we usually see in the youtube, it's a masterclass to make you walk with your own legs and understanding all the yeast behavior. Thanks for investiment your time producing such a good material!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it. I am trying to help beginners understand how and why things happen.

[@carolinetrieu7701]

My starter is a one year old one. It used to be super reactive at the beginning (at peak, it would go to 3-4x the initial volume), but now it doesn't go beyond 2x its initial volume. I'm gonna try your tricks to get it back on track, thanks a lot!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Good luck. Also check out my video, “How to Double Your Starter Strength in 6 Days,” for a demonstration of some techniques.

[@kristinkarnes9514]

I just wanted to say thanks for the (obvious/not so obvious) tip to discard 2/3 and not just 1/2 the starter before feeding. It had never occurred to me about the appropriate discard ratio, but it makes so much sense, and ever since I took your advice my start has never been happier! Thanks so much!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@jacobosborne972]

Thanks Dad!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

👍

[@jenniferbowman7813]

I just commented…and magically you started talking about adding wheat flour or Rye…..thank you, I’ll keep listening!! Peak to peak! Got it!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@jenniferbowman7813]

Do you sell starter?

[@KM-xr5gg]

Thanks 🌸👍!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@creativeplanetjanet]

@The Sourdough Journey, 27:46 You made me laugh out loud! 😃 And then the aliens, hahaha. You're good with word pictures. Thanks for helping me get this sourdough feeding stuff in my head enough to wrap my mind around it.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@donnabailey929]

I have had my starter given to me little over two weeks ago Couldn’t talk to the person who made it. It wasn’t doing a lot except bubbling. So this past Sunday I gave her a combination of bread flour and dark rye. Holy Moly she went crazy. In just a few hours she doubled and more. Then I fed her regular bread flour for 3 days. She doesn’t do much except bubble again. Should I keep giving her a combination until she doubles every four hours for 3-4 days? Love watching your videos. Learning so much

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. Starters react to different flours. But I’d try to go of up to full strength, then you can wean it off of that flour, sometimes and feed it bread flour or all purpose. But do the transition slowly.

[@LookitCrows]

This was exactly what I was looking for

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. You may also be interested in this kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2GygKl_nKiXr5Y And, please check out this page on my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-strengthening/

[@newtboys]

I love this channel, particularly as a fellow geek.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@redhen689]

Thanks for your very helpful videos. I’m a very informal keeper of starter. I started it more than 5 years ago. It times it’s been ignored in the fridge for months at a time. My starter is currently fed with 100% dark rye flour. I rarely make a loaf of bread, but sometimes make sourdough pizza crust or some rolls from a Danish recipe I ran across several months ago. I sometimes cheat and add a bit of yeast. I generally use 100% whole grains when I bake.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@tothpianopeter]

This is such an incredible channel. There are many videos on KZbin on various aspects of how to make sourdough bread, but none of them are as thorough as your videos. I find the When is Bulk Fermentation Done series particularly useful, as I think that's where most people, including me, make mistakes. I would love to hear your thoughts on methods of different levain preparation and their relation to how sour the final bread becomes. For example, some bakers, including Trevor Wilson, say that using a younger levain that is only 2 or 3 hours old and was fed at 1:1:1 ratio results in a less sour bread than using a levain that ripened overnight, using a ratio of 1:10:10, even though the latter has a much smaller amount of seed starter in it. Apparently, it is not the seed starter amount that determines the sourness of the bread, but it is the amount of time the levain ripens for. Acidity develops over time, so even though at the 1:10:10 feeding ratio there is just a very small amount of acidity at the beginning that comes from the seed starter, a levain fed in such way normally needs about 12 hours to mature, during which acidity develops. On the other hand, if we create a levain using 1:1:1 feeding ratio and an active, recently refreshed starter as seed, we can use that levain in 2 or 3 hours already, and there is no time for acidity to develop. I am truly curious what you think about this theory. Perhaps you could make a video on it? I personally love sourdough but don't like when it is sour, so I am trying to find ways to create a sourdough bread that is very mild. I have a stiff starter that I maintain and use to create levains, and it can double in size in 2 hours when fed at 1:1:1 ratio. So I am wondering if using a young levain of only 2-3 hours fed at 1:1:1 would result in a less sour bread than using a levain that fermented for 8-9 or more hours with a higher flour-to-seed ratio.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I find a 1:10:10 leaven to be less acidic than a 1:1:1. I believe the amount of starter carried over into the leaven has a greater impact on the sourness/acidity than the rise time of the leaven - more carryover = more acidic. If you are seeking a milder, less acidic loaf, the best option is to do a countertop proof for a few hours rather than an overnight cold retard. I’ve found that a 1:10:10 leaven and a 3 hour countertop final proof produces a very mild loaf that does not even taste much like sourdough. I believe a stiff starter, especially if kept at cooler temperatures, is more acidic than a liquid starter.

[@tothpianopeter]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you so much for your answer. What you say makes total sense to me, I have to try a countertop final proof because I have been retarding the dough for the final proof, mainly for practical reasons. It is so difficult to fit a room-temperature final proof in my schedule, the whole process takes up the entire day. There are many debates regarding a stiff starter being more acidic. If you are familiar with the website The Fresh Loaf, there is a very interesting discussion there my microbiologist Debra Wink, who argues that an often fed stiff starter is in fact less acidic than a liquid starter. I am not sure whether or not she is right, but it is certainly a discussion worth to read. I keep a stiff starter because I find it easier to monitor its maturity. It really domes up and increases its volume, whereas sometimes a liquid starter is just too runny to be able to hold the gases in itself, and the bubbles escape, therefore it's more difficult for me to judge when it is ready.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I will look into this topic, do some research and add it to my list of future videos.

[@alvarovaldemoro]

Thanks! Cool high quality content! I would love one about autolysis, why usually is around 30 min? Also seen some doing hours! Should it be done differently for different flours?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I will add that to my list of ideas!

[@steffenp6554]

Excellent explanation and tips! Thanks a lot!! The peak-to-peak method is a very good advice. Just a thought on feeding ratios. In my experience increasing the starter feeding ratio even up to 1:4:4 a couple of days before baking boosts yeast fitness and reduces the acidity (which can somewhat inhibit yeast growth). The hypothesis is that unlike bacteria, yeast (e.g. Saccharomyces strains which divide by ‘budding’) ages in two distinct ways. Besides its chronological lifespan it also has a replicative lifespan - i.e. it can produce only a finite number of daughter cells (15-30) before the mother cell becomes quiescent. In an active starter, young daughter yeast cells with a high replicative potential may compete not only with bacteria, but also with older yeast cells that have low replicative potential. Decreasing the inoculation (i.e. increasing the feeding ratio) likely lowers the burden of older cells in the population and favours actively dividing cells. Of course, things are complicated in complex co-cultures of sourdough starters. Btw a very nice study of the sourdough microbiome found that Saccharomyces cerevisiae was indeed the dominant yeast species in most starters analysed (Landis et al., eLife 2021, DOI: 10.7554/eLife.61644).

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for the additional info. After making this video I also started experimenting with higher feeding ratios and agree with the acidity reduction and starter strengthening with higher ratios. Also, check out the first 20 minutes of this video for an interesting experiment I did on this topic. kzbin.info/www/bejne/enqTn6yHpdatpbs

[@PickingPhotography]

Very informative. I have done all the mistakes except add commercial yeast. 😂 Tomorrow we start the strengthening process. Your video is very helpful.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out the first 20 minutes of this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/enqTn6yHpdatpbs

[@kevinkimball715]

The video is very informative and I really appreciated the visual of what the starter looks like at the different stages. As noted in an earlier comment, I too have a cold kitchen (~68 degrees F). At a 1:1:1 feeding ratio, my starter rises, but only about 30%. That makes it hard to see a peak. I get more of a noticeable rise at higher feeding ratios (e.g., 1:3:3), but as expected it takes 24 hours to reach that peak. I’ll try rigging something up to put the starter in a warmer environment (at 1:1:1) to see if I can get it to double in the 4 to 6 hours, then adjust feeding time for the kitchen temperature.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks! A slow-rising starter is not necessarily weak, just cool. The temperature really impacts the rise time, not that is not a true indicator of “strength”. Strong starters will rise slowly if they are cool.

[@kevinkimball715]

@@thesourdoughjourney I think I'll take some discard, feed it at 1:1:1, and put it in my oven on "proofing" and see how it rises. I believe my proofing cycle is at 80 degrees. That may tell me if I should bulk proof my sourdough bread in the oven. If the starter doesn't rise much, then I'll need to strengthen it.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

80 is a good temp for bulk fermentation and proofing. If your oven can hold that temp, that is good.

[@danayo8852]

Tom, another well done and informative video! I’d love to get my starter to cycle to peak in 24hr on the counter. I’m lucky if the starter goes 8 hr before peaking. No matter what feed ratio the starters are fed, they mature (peak) in about 8 hours. Temps range from 76-84F. The reason I found this video is that I am trying to strengthen and establish a Lievito Madre. It is not rising to required 3x in 4hr @ 82F. I estimate I’ve gone through 12k of flour. A large portion of that was expensive Italian flour :-( . I plan to use between 10 & 20% whole rye as a one time shot to see if that gives it the needed boost. Again, THANKS, For your informative content. Danny Ayo

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks Danny. If I were trying to peak in 24 hours I’d try a 1:20:20 feeding at room temp (low 70s) Just guessing here but I’ve done 1:10:10 that peaks in about 8-12 hours at high 60s temp. It requires such a small amount of starter, I’ve never tried it. Maybe I’ll do an experiment today.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Danny, I ran an experiment on starter feeding ratios with some really interesting results. I used a well past peak starter at a cool temperature to stretch out the times so I could see it on a time lapse recording. I refreshed my starter at 5 different ratios, 1:1:1, 1:2:2, 1:5:5, 1:10:10 and 1:20:20. The times to peak (tripling) at 72F were 12 hours, 13.5 hours, 15 hours, 17 hours and 24 hours. It almost perfectly fits a linear formula. 1:1:1 Time to Peak + New Feeding Ratio Multiple x .6 = target hours to peak Here are the modeled times using that formula: [1:1:1] Baseline 12 hours [1:2:2] 12 hours + 2 x .6 = 13.2 hours (vs. actual of 13.5) [1:5:5] 12 hours + 5 x 6 = 15 hours (vs actual of 15) [1:10:10] 12 hours + 10 x .6 = 18 hours (vs. actual of 17) [1:20:20] 12 hours + 20 x .6 = 24 hours (vs. actual of 24) I'm surprised how closely it fits to the line. I'll run another experiment with a stronger starter at a higher temperature to doublecheck this formula. But this is really fascinating.

[@danayo8852]

@@thesourdoughjourney That is mathematically interesting. What do your think about whole grains, especially whole rye to strengthen the starter? Also, what about stirring the starter? I know that once the starter has peaked, it can be stirred down and in very short time it will exceed the previous height. Doesn't that indicate that more feed is available, but not metabolized by the starter. Why does the starter grow back so fast and why does the starter grow even higher? I am interested in your thoughts. I really like the fact that you don't accept things at face value, but test them to see if those commonly stated beliefs are valid. "the truth sets us free." It's not enough to believe, we must believe the truth, or else we believe in vain. Good on You... Danny

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@danayo8852 Good questions. I definitely see more strength/activity from whole grains, and then even more on top of that with rye. I try to do 50/50 bread flour / whole wheat, then I can boost the whole wheat percentage or use rye if I need a boost of strength. I have not experimented much with stirring. I will give that a try this week and see how it goes.

[@hstsyli]

Hi, I just found out and loved your channel and informative tips. Thanks a lot. Just a question! Isn't peak feeding that you suggested and increased feeding frequency that you said a mistake practically the same things

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Good question. Not exactly. Peak-to-peak feeding typically increases the frequency, but you can also increase the frequency by feeding your starter before it peaks which actually weakens the starter. This is what I was getting at and should have been more clear. Some people say "just feed it twice a day to strengthen it" but if you are feeding twice a day before it peaks, you are actually weakening it. Thanks for the question I should have clarified this.

[@emmaapplegate1970]

I really enjoy watching your videos because I learn so much. Is there one definitive book on sourdough baking that you would recommend? I am still a neophyte with just having baked 3 sourdough breads so far. I do have a strong culture already and I've been watching many sourdough baking youtube videos, such as yours, but I thought a really good book that explains its theory and application(s) would be nice to have on hand. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Tartine Bread by Chad Robertson is the one. I follow it in every one of these videos and it makes great bread.

[@ValerYoga]

Thank you so much for the illuminating tips. I bake only in the weekend and would like to minimize the maintenance of the starter. I use to keep my starter in the fridge (sometimes for weeks between bakes). Are you willing to make a video to maintain the starter using the fridge? Many infrequent bakers would certainly love 💟

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes, I will add that to my list of topics. Thanks for the feedback.

[@danbrady1685]

Tom, great job and, as always, a clear explanation. Another channel suggested that raising the PH of the starter by going to a 1:4:4 or even 1:5:5 would extend the time window available for bulk fermentation before the acids breakdown the dough and over proofing results. Any thoughts on this?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes, higher feeding ratios slow down the process somewhat but more when preparing to use the starter at its peak in a recipe. Just doing a higher feeding ratio but still allowing the starter to reuse and fall does not reduce acidity in my experience. So if you are preparing to bake or make a leaven go for higher feeding. If you are just trying to stretch the time, it is much more effective if yiu can just reduce the temperature to slow things down.