My Best Guess at the Where and When for NHL's Next Round of Expansion

I get asked a lot about expansion in live streams, so why not make another video on the topic?
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[@peterroberts4415]

If Toronto got a second team, it'd be guaranteed to win a cup before the Leafs. Do it for the lolz Gary. Please do

[@clydeblair9622]

Lol

[@Polytrout]

I heard talk over the past 35 years of the NHL going to Hamilton o😅r a second team to Toronto. One of my co-workers argued against both stating, "EVERYONE hates Toronto and NOBODY likes Hamilton. 😅😂😊 But seriously, regarding Quebec City, I love the thought but sadly, Quebec City = Hamilton 2020. I would love to see both Hamilton and Quebec City get teams but ... it's a pipedream. As for games in Quebec City, do people remember Canada Cup, NHL exhibition games and neutral site games in Hamilton? They sold out except for when the Sabres played (it was an unofficial boycott). It was concluded that a team in Hamilton would be viable. Games "au Centre Vidéotron" would be history repeating itself (Hamilton history). Give Utah's history up to 1996 to the current Winnipeg Jets. When the NHL goes back to Arizona, call them the Phoenix ROADRUNNERS! Third time round for Atlanta? BE VERY CAREFUL (plan carefully and cautiously and be slow and deliberate.😮

[@eggsbruhnadict4298]

It’ll never happen. They pay into rev sharing so that small market teams stay and they don’t move to markets that could take fans away from the big teams

[@InsignificantNick]

MLSE would never allow that to happen.

[@gordm3527]

100%!! Why not a second Toronto team, Shannon?

[@bartsanders1553]

I think they should consider Cleveland, and then ultimately decide against it, because it's been a while since they've done that.

[@XaviRonaldo0]

No more room for another team in Ohio. Columbus is the biggest city and it's a small market. Also, a team in Cleveland would infringe on both Pittsburgh and Columbus' territory

[@jaceking5938]

I think Jim Ballsillie should make another bid to put a team in Halifax so the NHL cam tell him no again

[@r.giuliano]

Lol

[@evanschris103]

​@XaviRonaldo0 Cleveland is not considered Penguins territory by the NHL; Iy is exclusively the Blue Jackets TV market and only their games are blacked out in every ZIP code in NE Ohio

[@bartsanders1553]

@@jaceking5938 See, this guy gets it.😂

[@Shadow12aven]

One alternative is moving Nashville to the Eastern Conference if NHL finds itself with too many Western Conference teams.

[@hughjass1044]

Central time zone which throws TV start times out of whack among other things. It could be done but there'd be a lot of pushback.

[@closethockeyfan5284]

I've been shouting this to him for years, among other things. He doesn't seem to care about the idea, but I find it very likely. Houston, Atlanta, KC, Arizona

[@Shadow12aven]

@Julia_Hammels_ you probably would have to restructure the divisions because Carolina is in the metro yet the Florida teams are in the Atlantic.

[@KensterFox]

@@hughjass1044 A Central Time Zone team playing in the Eastern Conference is not nearly as problematic as an Eastern Time Zone team playing in the Western Conference, which is why Detroit and Columbus forced their way East during the last realignment.

[@hughjass1044]

@@KensterFox I know that. I'm just saying that there'd be opposition to the idea and that it's not something anyone would want. It's a thing which could be done no doubt, but it's not a thing anyone would want to do if it could be avoided.

[@67JLBlues19]

Wake up babe, THG uploaded another expansion video

[@KellanMarr2]

AHL Houston drew over 10k per game. They only left because the former Rockets owner forced them out. If not, they wouldn't have moved to Iowa.

[@hockeybabble8326]

BUT the new Rockets owner is receptive to the idea, but Gary still has a hard on for Arizona. Aeros will work with the right owner

[@jeffreym.8957]

Wow. That's impressive.

[@alexhoffmann8881]

If the NHL does return to Arizona, the one connection they should retain with the Coyotes is retiring Shane Doan's number.

[@Envra]

Bless you for even writing Saskatoon on the board. Saskatchewan would absolutely love our own hockey team and to even be continued to be brought up in the conversation is half the battle.

[@Envra]

@Julia_Hammels_ now use that same logic to explain Roughriders and Rush merchandise sales. Remember Rush moved from Edmonton to Saskatoon.

[@Envra]

@Julia_Hammels_ I'm simply explaining how it is a much more hardcore sport market per capita, with a lot of spending money, a growing market, and a historic market. Green Bay is small for an NFL team but it works for the exact same reasons.

[@jamespark6416]

@@EnvraHow is Saskatoon a viable TV market, how are you gonna get enough corporate spending in a city with less than 300k ppl. Winnipeg has 750k and still has trouble getting proper corporate support. NHL is still a multibillion league not some niche league with part timers that no one really cares that much about.

[@jamespark6416]

@@EnvraNo Green Bay only works cause it’s a city adjacent to Milwaukee with a population of 1.5 which is more than all of Sask. Wisconsin is also alot smaller than Sask in Size but with 6 times the population. Not to mention they were grandfathered into the NFL from a different time. Thinking NHL is viable in Saskatoon is delusional when markets with 20 times there population are still untapped.

[@ktowniecity7269]

they need skin in the game tho. The Quebec Government is paying the LA Kings 5 million just for the opportunity to host two preseason games at Videotron centre in September.

[@LSA30]

Milwaukee is the dark horse candidate I’d like to see get an NHL team. Even better if they can keep the awesome Admirals brand/name!

[@jackpastor7147]

@LSA30 I like the Wisconsin pick but I feel like Madison would be the preferred city. Feels like more of the direction of the kinda city they want to get a team into. I would like a team in either.

[@Nikki-fz8dd]

@@jackpastor7147Madison is way too small. Milwaukee metro is 1.5m compared to Madison 513,000

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

A wisconson team would be pretty fun to see.

[@jackpastor7147]

@Nikki-fz8dd do you think the market of the Chicago and Milwaukee clash to much. I have heard that as reason but personally don't believe that.

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

@@jackpastor7147 No one's in Illinois the other is in Wisconson, and even if that were'nt the case New York has two teams.

[@JFreitas0937]

The Quebec Bouledogues

[@TheScotian82]

The Quebec Doges would have a great logo

[@buriedintime]

"Okay, you can't speak French, but can you play hockey?"

[@oilersridersbluejays]

Nordiques. Same logo and jersey. Use the Husky jersey they were planning as a third jersey.

[@neeltheother2342]

@@oilersridersbluejays That husky looks tacky and awful though

[@doubledouble4g379]

Why would we want another team in Canada? Aren't the 7 we have disappointing enough?

[@DaveAlbright-yt4et]

It should be noted in Houston's case, that city has a ridiculous amount of humidity from April till October. If the ice in Florida was bad, this will be just as bad, if not worse.

[@Veniguiribici]

Argument here in Kansas City has been that the arena is massively profitable as a concert venue, and an NHL team would take 41 dates off the calendar.

[@dustinbird9170]

Have they even bothered considering how badly I want hockey though?

[@StephenConantJohnson]

San Diego and Portland come to mind. Both were strong franchises in the old WHL back in the '60s where the Vancouver Canucks came up from. I figure southern California can support two teams if metro Toronto can, and nobody talks much about Portland despite it's perfect geographic location for a completely West Coast division and associated rivalries.

[@jimybourassa4369]

I live in Qc city and I've been to the Quebec QHMJL playoff hockey in the Videotron Center buidling, it was a great experience. I think a group of owners would form itself very little time after the NHL signals it's expanding once again, I think there would be enough companies in Québec city and neighbouring regions actually to affiliate with the Nordiques if they came back. It's just a matter of will for the NHL commissioner. For the name, I don't see another name. Bill 101 could be a limitation but putting an English name in a city where 98% is French speaking would be very weird anyways so it's not that much an issue. Bulldogs tough has been integrated in French dictionaries so it would be okay but the culture around the Nordiques is still so alive, if you go downtown Quebec city, you'll see many tourist shops who still sells Nordiques stuff. It's still very much alive in people's memories and I don't see how this new team could be called anything other than the Nordiques. If, however, for rights reason (I think the Colorado avalanche are the owners of the Nordiques rights and stuff) it didn't work, "les Citadelles de Québec", which was the name of the AHL club between 1999 and 2002 in Qc city eould be plan B. It refers to Qc status of the only walled city in North America that dates back from the 1759 war between the English and the French. To me, this would make more sense than the Bulldogs... It's also the name that was brought up the most when we were talking about the possibility of getting a PWHL franchise (since NHL seems to be giving up on Quebec city). As a Qc city fan of hockey, I just wish the new market will give a damn about hockey. People here wants to have hockey back, it's our national sport and to see expansions in some southern places where hockey is the fifth or sixth place as a sport makes me bitter. Women or men hockey I don't care. Just bring back our national sport in the capital.

[@bjdon99]

When Les Bulldogs played in QC there was a much bigger Anglo % of the population than there is today. I believe the team was a team that mostly catered to the English speaking fans there. That’s why it would be unlikely the new team would adopt that as its name. Let’s be honest, theee is a 95% chance the new team would be called Les Nordiques

[@jimybourassa4369]

@@bjdon99 Also true.

[@ktowniecity7269]

@@jimybourassa4369 The Avs have the rights but they'll be worthless if QC gets a team back. Everyone will want the Nords name back and I'm sure they can buy the rights back for a few million. Wearing a Nords jersey to an Avs game with the Quebec team in the league would be a bad look and I doubt even Avs fans would be happy at the cash grab. If the Jets got back their name so can and should the Nordiques and as would the Whalers in Hartford despite the Canes wearing the iconic Whale logo. And, I agree the city desperately wants it's team back. I'm in Levis and I'd easily sign up for season tickets despite the commute. This wouldn't just be a city's team but much of the province's team. The money and team support will never be an issue unlike places like Winnipeg with a tiny arena.

[@Eknashik]

I have a problem with the "we can fill a building" argument and it's that since covid, the NHL has deliberately moved away from ticket sales as their main income stream. Selling merchandise, tv rights and advertising rights favor a big metro area.

[@gordm3527]

Ticket sales still accounts for 44% of NHL team revenue. Largest percentage in sports. Butts in seats matters which is why WPG, BUF & SJ are scared.

[@Eknashik]

@@gordm3527 Yeah but if the NHL wanted to continue shrinking that percentage then expanding into bigger markets that can take advantage of more eyeballs and wallets out of the building is more in line with that.

[@jeffreym.8957]

@@gordm3527 Pegula (Buf) and Plattner (SJ) are two of the richest owners, though. It's not like they need revenue sharing.

[@ktowniecity7269]

bad take. still a gate driven league. much more than any other league

[@ktowniecity7269]

@@jeffreym.8957 you obviously dont know many wealthy ppl. they all hate to lose money. that is why they are wealthy in the 1st place.

[@redkobold1]

Once again putting my hat in for Milwaukee. Fiserv Forum is a newer Arena, which the NHL tends to look for the most, as well as an already extremely strong rivalry with Chicago and Minneapolis. Would be extremely easy for that team to establish itself and make money (as Blackhawks fans would pack the arena for away games).

[@humblelad]

The problem is there aren’t many billionaires in Wisconsin

[@kyleweaver9830]

@@humblelad not a lot of fortune 500 companies either

[@dustinbird9170]

If I had to route for anyone besides KC getting one, it would be Milwaukee. The north deserves more love

[@Shadow12aven]

Pittsburgh Penguins were almost sold to Portland.

[@michaelleroy9281]

The Penguins never almost moved to Portland it was Kansas City

[@Shadow12aven]

@@michaelleroy9281 No, Paul Allen was going to buy the team and they were going to play in the same arena as the TrailBlazers. Allen always wanted a hockey team in Portland, but only a well established team. He didn't want any expansion clubs. Penguins almost moved twice, Kansas City the first time and Portland the second time. Awful fanbase if you'd ask me.

[@nn26376]

I could see Omaha trying to revive the Ak-Sar-Ben Knights name that was used in the AHL. The NHL had 1/3 of its teams in Canada in the Original Six era (2/6), from 1980 until San Jose (7/21), and when Ottawa joined (8/24). I never expected the ratio to go below 1/4 again, but here we are. I do think if the NHL had absorbed the six WHA teams and added Houston and Cincinnati in 1977 to go to 24 teams (as that would be before Cleveland folded), even if the Barons and Stingers both wind up not being successful, it would have been less likely that the Blue Jackets would have come into existence, and we might be talking about the Hampton Roads Rhinos again.

[@I_am_Gaith]

Texas can definitely support 2 NHL teams. I used to live in Houston, and went to my fair share of Aeros games. The last few years they were in the AHL the Toyota center had a lot of people. I think part of that is they were in the playoffs consistently, and the other part is that Houston is very much a transplant city. I would love to see the Aeros in the NHL. The Houston/Dallas rivalry games would be something to watch.

[@jaredpietron443]

Hey Shannon, Omaha resident here. We have a pretty strong hockey fanbase here but I'm not sure that we would be able to support an NHL franchise. We have 967,604 in the metro population (including neighboring Council Bluffs IA), and I don't think that would be the issue. However, we already have a D1 NCAA team in the UNO Mavericks and the Lancers in the USHL. Both of these teams can struggle to bring attendance when they aren't winning. We also failed to support an AHL team from 05-07 when we had Calgary's affiliate. It's hard to justify even though the owners of a large outlet mall may be interested in building an arena and making a pitch to the NHL.

[@seancomyn4610]

It sucks cause Omaha feels like a market that is trapped in the paradox of: they'd be able to support a team if they had one but they don't have a team so we're not gonna take the risk and expand there.

[@bjdon99]

The metro area is booming. The growth planned in Sarpy County alone over the next decade or two will grow the metro area substantially. It’s small but also would own a market as the only pro team in town. It probably could work but it is on the bubble.

[@THEREDHOTWRECK]

I think the AHL will expand there in the future when the NHL expands. If not, the ECHL would.

[@TheWatz05]

For the basketball team not wanting to share that was the old owner. Ishbia hasn’t ruled it out and could build a new arena for suns and hockey after suns current agreement runs out.

[@ilznidiotic]

The Nebraska Emptiness? The Nebraska Ennui? The Omaha Void? Go, Void, Go?

[@ProggaWoggga]

Nebraska Prairie Dogs. You heard it here first!

[@clydeblair9622]

The Atlanta Flames had good goaltending.

[@doaftheloaf]

the thrashers never did.

[@mattlabrecque7842]

Id love to have the battle of Quebec back.

[@yelling3874]

Can Texas support two hockey teams? Yes, absolutely. I've been living in Houston a while now and I've never seen a single piece of Stars merch being worn, never heard them mentioned, etc. They wouldn't be stealing support from each other. But that's because Houston's basically a 100% hockey-free market. An expansion team would be building a new fanbase from scratch. Is that doable here? Yeah, absolutely. Hockey's culture would do really well here, there's money here to buy seats, and a brand new major sports team would attract a lot of local attention. If the GM is smart and brings in players with personality and grit, hockey could catch on quickly. Houston would go CRAZY for something like that penalty shot exchange between Kochetkov and Brady Tkachuk, for example.

[@ilznidiotic]

I'm a Stars fan, but as a Houstonian, cheering for a Dallas team will always feel like I'm poisoning part of my soul.

[@nunya44288]

Agreed. NHL has shown they value growing new fans, and large national media markets. This is almost an inevitability.

[@seancomyn4610]

Feels like Houston and KC are the biggest shoe ins for new teams in the next 10 years. Too obvious to not happen.

[@PunkRockerPunk]

From the outside looking in that may be a case for "Texas can't even support one team". That said I think a Houston team would have a much stronger fanbase than the one Dallas has cultivated.

[@likeag1000]

Agreed! Although I will say that the fanbase wouldn't be built from scratch necessarily because Houston is a city where a lot of snowbirds have moved to and also a lot of oil expats live here (many of whom come directly from Canada). So the hockey appetite is there, they just a need a team to cheer for :). Being a Houstonian myself, I have witnessed how passionate the fans are here for the Astros, Rockets and Texans. They would fiercely support an NHL team too!

[@MbisonBalrog]

If QBC gets team the Remparts should move to Sept Iles. They need something.

[@jeffculbertson]

The only con for Houston is probably that it's a crowded market for pro sports. I grew up going to Apollos and Aeros games at the Coliseum and Summit. The fan base then was small (very) but passionate, and I think it was largely people who moved there from hockey-crazy east coast cities. The teams were never that good, but I did get to see an aging Gordie Howe play. I haven't lived in Houston for 30 years, but I'd love for them to join the NHL.

[@angelod.pizzullojr.8971]

A city and surrounding area that large would have no problem supporting an NHL team. The fact that they're in the top 5 for markets and don't have teams in all 4 major sports leagues is a head scratcher.

[@gothpredatorsfan1972]

Agreed, I also Think Texas could definitely support two teams, Honestly, I’d like to see teams back in Quebec, Atlanta and Phoenix as well as a team in Houston, although I’d also like to see teams in Portland, Hamilton, Cincinnati and Milwaukee. (And BTW, as I said before many times, if I were to start a NHL from scratch I’d put teams in all those cities (Phoenix Included BTW)

[@gothpredatorsfan1972]

And BTW the reasoning for me keeping a team in Phoenix it’s a major market with lots of people from up north moving to it, , (and yes I know it’s in the desert but that’s not the reason why I’d put a team back in Phoenix) but unlike the dumpster fire coyotes which failed, this would be a expansion team with a different name (Possibly Scorpions)

[@gothpredatorsfan1972]

And yes I know there will be some disagreements on where I’d put teams in my NHL from scratch, but that’s ok, people can have differing opinions, And also BTW I’m so sorry I forgot to say this earlier but your NHL from scratch video inspired me to do my own. and like yours, I’d go with Atlanta and Phoenix (even though I know Phoenix wasn’t in yours, but I did include it mine) over Vegas, since Atlanta and Phoenix are much bigger tv markets than Vegas is (even though I have absolutely nothing against Vegas, and yes I am well aware Vegas is a success, but for me, that’s how I’d do it, And mine is indeed pretty much similar to yours anyways, And also another thing I’d also do is not put second teams in cities, (even though I’d keep the islanders, but I’d put them in New Jersey instead)

[@Ste_Va]

I'm still hoping we see a team in Portland mainly because i think a Seattle/Portland rivalry would be alot of fun. As someone from the Chicago area its always been a bit weird to me that the only major sport Chicago has 2 teams in baseball considering how New York and Los Angeles have done supporting multiple teams in the same league. I'm not saying there should be a 2nd NFL or NHL team there I'm just saying I think it would do better than most expect.

[@Pyrospriter042]

The most likely cities would seem to be Houston and Atlanta for sure. Which means it'll actually be like San Antonio and Jacksonville somehow.

[@jamesboley573]

I’m continuing to be thankful the Blues never left.

[@XaviRonaldo0]

8:19 could put 2 teams in the west. Nashville wouldn't mind moving to the eastern conference.

[@jacklong9619]

Nashville really should be in the East. Would love to see a souther division of Florida, Tampa, Nashville and Carolina in the same division

[@XaviRonaldo0]

@@jacklong9619 the only hiccup is they'd be the only team not in the eastern timezone but I don't think that would be a problem

[@chrismdb5686]

Don't see why Chicago couldn't come East either, they're really not all that far from Detroit.

[@ozzydo2314]

The golden horseshoe in ontario is nearly 10 million people and have 1 team.

[@xavierjackson8788]

I'm a Hamiltonian born and raised, I love my city but I don't trust city council or the market. It's a leafs market but things can change

[@moose7454]

THG, the Aeros had FANTASTIC support when they were AHL

[@gabrielrockman]

As a resident of the Washington DC area, I know that we had the Washington Senators two different times, both left, and then MLB gave the area the Washington Nationals a while later. And the Nationals are doing just fine at drawing fans (especially considering they're in a rebuild). There was a pretty big time between when the second Washington Senators left, and when the Washington Nationals arrived. It might be a bit soon to go back to Atlanta, but I do think it will happen.

[@srgraham9172]

Not saying the NHL would ever do it. I also don’t have any personal experience with the area. But Jacksonville, FL seems to make sense if you opt to not go to Atlanta. Hear me out, the U.S. military has around 75,000 active military personnel that are stationed in the area. All those people represent the entire U.S. look at Tampa Bay, they have what, 15,000 active duty military it took a while, but look at where they are at now. Florida, NYC/NJ/Boston’s southern extension (you can also add Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal in there too, drive up and down I-95). Look what a little bit of screwed management has done finally. Houston and Hamilton makes loads and loads of sense to me. Milwaukee also could make an argument, I just think there hasn’t been a ton of hockey related success in that area. Kansas City, Cincinnati, and Cleveland also could have some say at what goes where at the end of the day too. No dig at Quebec City, but I don’t see it happening. Maybe I’m wrong, but knowing that the NHL wants suites to be sold. Does the city have the deep pockets in any industry? I honestly don’t know. Maybe they could make it work. THG, you’re doing great bud.

[@jacklong9619]

As a Floridian, would love to see us get a third team. They also have no winter sports team to compete with

[@jotaemept99]

Realistically and preferably: Arizona Coyotes (Pacific), Houston Aeros (Central), Atlanta Thrashers (Metropolitan), and Quebec Nordiques (Atlantic) Expansion could have happened earlier if the Coyotes got an arena in the east valley of the Phoenix Metro Area and then SLC Utah would take its place for expansion candidate.

[@KevinJL]

This.

[@dustinbird9170]

Kansas City is a great sports city that is shining bright right now thanks to the chiefs. That momentum and good feeling I think could easily carry people enthusiastically over to another pro sports franchise. We would be a gateway to the prairies and would sell merch and fill seats constantly. I know I'd have at least half season tickets every year. There is also big money here and across the border in Kansas. Houston will be as good an idea in 10 years as it is today, they can wait. But it's a perfect time for K.C.

[@jeremykraenzlein5975]

I appreciate you keeping the conferences balanced, and I would be the first to strongly object to any expansion plan which adds more teams in the East than in the West. But is there anything wrong with a plan that overloads the West? I don't want to speak for another team's fan base, but if any Chicago or Nashville fans see this, what would you think of an expansion which adds more teams to the West, forcing your team to realign to the Eastern Conference? Would you be happy? Angry? Indifferent? Personally, as a Detroit fan, I would love to see either or both of your teams join us in the East. That would give us a buffer in case a subsequent expansion forced someone to realign back the other way. Also, if Chicago came to the East, we would have all of the Original Six teams in the same conference again.

[@cbi-ju5mi]

Did the Nordiques not move to Colorado, not bcuz of the lack ticket sales , but they did not get enough corporate sponsorship/support? Will the corporate support be better this time?

[@clydeblair9622]

The Quebec Bouledogue

[@RobertHarridge]

I think a dark horse that no one thinks about is Indianapolis. It’s a growing metropolitan area, and a city/state that would introduce fans to the NHL in a new market. Indianapolis does have an ECHL team that plays in the suburb of Fishers, and they averaged nearly 4900 in attendance for a 7500 seat arena. Not bad considering it’s not in downtown, and it’s an ECHL team. It seems like there is interest there although there hasn’t been an ownership group to step up to the plate. Also, an outdoor game at Indianapolis Motor Speedway would be super cool. I also don’t live in Indiana. I live in Tampa, and Tampa was seen as a completely new market when the Esposito’s made the franchise.

[@geoffroi-le-Hook]

When they borrow the Pacers' Gainbridge Fieldhouse, the fieldhouse has to take out the seats at one end. They might be able to use one end of Lucas Oil Field or Stadium, but the NFL schedule in Indy might be prohibitive (playoff run, Super Bowl, Combine; also permanent backup location for the Final Four in basketball).

[@jacklong9619]

As an IU grad, I think Indy is an exceptional sports market. However they already have the Pacers there in the winter. I think the better move for that market is to get an MLS or other summer sports team

[@kejavu6403]

@@RobertHarridge The Issue with Indianapolis (and Indiana as a whole) is it's reputation as a "basketball state." Basketball is to them what Football is to Texas and having another winter sport competing with Basketball is going to be a tall order.

[@jeffadventures1]

it will 100% be the Coyotes when AZ gets their team back... the uniform and name is iconic

[@JFreitas0937]

The Nebraska Wheat Kings or the Nebraska Wheaties with a built in sponsorship

[@MatthewArnold-gb8cs]

@@JFreitas0937 the Brandon Wheat Kings (also referred to as the Wheaties) of the Western Hockey League might have a problem with that name. Brandon has pretty awesome jerseys too.

[@shivanhaven]

For Atlanta, the Gathering at South Forsyth I think will be a winner. What this ownership has done, is build out plans similar to the extremely successful Atlanta Braves ballpark within Cobb County. 18,5000-seat arena along with hotels, 150 homes, 1,800 multi-family units, 1.6 million square feet of office and retail space. Georgia's department of transportation has also jumped on board with building a new Ga. 400 interchange to help with traffic flow.

[@SuperRavensfan101]

Feels like the expansion talks will come back again around 2028/2030 I agree with you, but Atlanta really seems like they have multiple parties that want a team back in that city, good news if you're a resident of Quebec City I suppose (I kid). Overall I think the clear Next 4 options are heading back to Arizona/Phoenix as well as Atlanta, and then Houston/Quebec City maybe in the next official *Expansion* process but beyond that I think that should be as far as the NHL stretches itself for the near future (15-20 years). and making sure those franchises operate properly and build them well before moving on.

[@michauvanspeyk8753]

The hockey guy you could put a second team in Toronto. You could put a team in Markham or Thornhill or Richmond Hill

[@THEREDHOTWRECK]

Sad how Portland doesn't get mentioned more often

[@thunderhammerx2966]

Would like to see Hartford return someday. The region has grown, and it's now a larger market than Buffalo.

[@anthonyrousseau8050]

Hartford is stuck right between New York and Boston. Wishful thinking, but sadly not happening.

[@thunderhammerx2966]

@anthonyrousseau8050 The Whalers were a great rival for Boston despite having a mediocre to bad team 95% of their time in the league.

[@bignugg3104]

@@anthonyrousseau8050 Connecticut has a huge hockey fanbase. Plus whalers merch still sells alot

[@anthonyrousseau8050]

@@thunderhammerx2966 Like I said, the geographical position of Hartford puts it right between not one but two of the NHL's biggest juggernauts, which gravely dilutes any potential crowd. You'd also need a new arena up to regulations and a potential owner/buyer. The Whalers deserved a better fate and I really wish they were still around. I take solace in knowing its fans still bleed green and carry on their memory. But compared to other cities, Hartford has too many factors against it.

[@thewhale9527]

@@anthonyrousseau8050 What Hartford really needs is the arena to be fully renovated to modern standards one or two of their corporations to become involved in the funding. Regardless of the geographical positioning, the NHL is about finding billion dollar opportunities.

[@CapsBrotha]

Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta & Quebec City, undeniable for the next 4 potential expansion markets. However Milwaukee is a dark horse market, Milwaukee was legitimately one of the main contenders with Seattle prior to the Kraken’s expansion. At this point when you consider what’s next for potential expansion, you really just have to channel ‘What does Bettman think?” …$

[@mikestoast]

While not a fan of the NHL expanding more, it is hard to see them not doing it at some point. That said, the idea of going back to QC or any other market here is no go. Expansion fees in American dollars are probably going to 1.5 Billion, add potential arena costs, facilities costs, AHL and ECHL costs etc.etc. In Canadian should the dollar stay as it has in that 73-75 range, it could cost 2 billion CDN. There are are more than a dozen markets in the US the NHL could expand into, not to mention Mexico City (Really curious which of the big 4 will go their first) Texas alone could have three teams. Basically the line has to be metro area over 2 million people. That is a lot of US cities. What I would rather the NHL do is stabilise the AHL, all these big markets, get AHL teams into them, and build up the AHL to the point where teams are selling out 18K arenas on a regular basis. AHL teams should not be located in the same city, and for the most part not the same state, expect for larger states like, Texas, Cali, Florida. This would also run out all but a few Canadian markets for AHL teams, say; Sask, Hamilton, Halifax, QC. Halifax and Sask i still think are tough sells. So 32 NHL teams and 28-30 markets for the AHL to get into. Subtract form that, the long term AHL franchises that are stable, and say 14-15 AHL markets that could be placed into large American population centres. Find the mid market cities metro ~500K and look to placing ECHL teams into them, and get that league stabilised.

[@jackpastor7147]

@mikestoast get the attendance to 18k is one if the most absurd things I have heard. Nhl doesn't average that this past season.

[@paulmezzetta6905]

Don’t forget, New Jersey Devils franchise started as the Kansas City Scouts, then Colorado Rookies

[@jdsmith1740]

Lets go Thrashers!!!!! NHL Atlanta!!!! We want it so bad

[@donellweaver5722]

I want Phoenix/Arizona and Atlanta to comeback as NHL expansion as the Coyotes 2.0 and hope it's the Thrashers 2.0 both teams had good logos and jerseys and I believe both teams can work better this time around with better ownership.

[@gtl81199]

Absolutely

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

I would'nt object but I think it'd be best for them to take a break from Arizona for now, so heads cool and they can come at it without baggage.

[@user-jb4gj9nx7l]

@@donellweaver5722 that's more likely

[@gtl81199]

@@Cloud-dt6xb Agreed but it depends Gary won’t be around much longer plus there’s pressure to get a team back the second best player in the league is from Arizona but the league needs to do a better job of doing its due diligence for the next ownership group you don’t want another AM

[@zackwilson1979]

fuck it make it a 40 team league

[@Kcman1827]

“Hell yeah, motherfucker!” -kool aid dude

[@splashnskillz37]

48

[@jcoats5529]

😂​@@splashnskillz37

[@mattlabrecque7842]

Shan has a video on a 40 team league.

[@BrendonBrooks]

You could have a frozen four: 4 divisions based on geographic regions. (Pacific, West, Central, East)

[@detroitotaku]

I think Tulsa or Oklahoma City should be considered for an expansion team. Tulsa has the BOK Center which is an NHL-ready facility, and seats 17,000+ for hockey. The Maple Leafs used to have a farm team in Tulsa as well from what I’ve read. Another idea would be Portland, to give the Kraken a rival team. Portland has a pretty big metro area of around 2.5 million as well. San Diego would be another. All of the California NHL teams (except the Seals) have panned out, and San Diego recently lost the Chargers, and the only game in town is the Padres. Which is kinda surprising considering that San Diego is America’s 8th largest city and has a metro population of 3.3 million. I’m sure they’d want more than one team to support.

[@dustinbird9170]

I think it would be kansas city OR Oklahoma, never both, and given the choice, the league would pick KC every time

[@georgenelson8284]

Houston is probably next. 4th lagest market in the US. Automatic rival with Dallas.

[@JPS47]

I can not see Atlanta or Phoenix/Arizona coming back and not being the Thrashers and Coyotes. The branding was the one thing that worked for both of them. Atlanta could come up with a different look but the Coyotes 90's definitely need have the 90's uniforms if they come back

[@shanelocke5504]

Bulldogs in french is "Bouledogues." Honestly? I could see it working as a name, but lets not kid ourselves, it would NEVER happen with the attachment folks have to the Nordiques name

[@zacksheets9726]

I view it this way, how difficult to pronounce would the name "Bouledogues" be for an english speaker who knows 0 french? Nordiques and Canadiens is not bad, but if a market chooses a French name that is too difficult for an English speaker to pronounce, it may be a problem for the league

[@oilersridersbluejays]

Nordiques should be the only consideration. Same logo, same jerseys. Maybe used the planned Husky jersey as a 3rd jersey.

[@PtiCaline]

@@zacksheets9726Bouledogues is pronounced the same way as Bulldogs, there’s no issue with it. English speakers can very easily say French words/expressions like restaurant, cul de sac, coup de grace, déjà vu, fiancé, cuisine, and even Nordiques. I would understand if the name was in Russian, because English and Russian have different alphabets and aren’t from similar linguistic branches, but English is heavily based on French, so I have a hard time seeing a French name English speakers can’t pronounce

[@shanelocke5504]

@@oilersridersbluejays Now THAT would be awesome! Those unreleased Husky jerseys were fire! If the Nordiques ever come back, they gotta get those in the frame

[@Montreal-Marc]

@@zacksheets9726 I doubt they would choose an "unpronounceable in english" name. By the way a quick info is to tell you that when the Nordiques moved to Denver, new ownership purposefully chose a new team name that was the same in english and french. "Avalanche" is both in the english and french dictionnaries. In doing that they were hopeful that many Nordiques fans would become Avalanche fans and they ended up not being wrong. If ever Quebec gets another team and are unable to purchase the rights to the Nordiques name, I believe they will choose a bilingual name. Even Montreal's new farm team name in the ECHL is bilingual...

[@TheMetalGBG]

I would love it if the Hartford Whalers made a comeback! Fat chance but I can hope :)

[@timtwoface]

It's still amazing that Toronto #2 (i'll include Hamilton in that group) hasn't seriously happened yet. While I'd rather see Quebec City return, I think a second team in Toronto would be like a license to print money AND get good corporate sponsorship, too. If LA can have 2 teams and NYC has 3, the GTA can easily have 2 based on population alone.

[@timsmith428]

Note about Houston..Back in the day, the Colorado Rockies (NHL) wanted to merge with the Houston Aeros (WHA), and join the NHL..I don't know what happened as to how this idea died...

[@johnsolo74]

Shannon do you think the nhl would consider Milwaukee, it would move Utah over to the pacific

[@PDXKing99]

I’d argue that if Arizona does come back fans want the Coyotes name and the look especially with the kachina coyote. I understand the negative perception but with new ownership that cares and builds an arena first I think they could work plus the jets came back and I think the trashers will be back in Atlanta as well

[@anne6448]

as a dallas native and huge stars fan, i think expansion to houston would do wonders. now if dallas was called the texas stars (ignoring the ahl :P) it might be a different story. i know i would be making the drive to houston for a game! what a rivalry it could be

[@wildbillwilmoth98]

It will be an American market that gets the fourth NHL expansion team. Milwaukee or Indianapolis. With Phoenix as the third team just in Metro alone.

[@Bugattiboy912]

I do agree that Houston and Atlanta 3 are probably the next teams I don't think they'll ever do them in pairs. The NHL wants teams to be competitive immediately.

[@henryca03]

I could see the Nashville Predators move from the Central Division to the Metro Division if there are two Western teams in the hypothetical 2035 expansion. I can see San Diego possibly getting that fourth slot over Quebec City. The Pros: • Large metro population of over 3.3 million, with over 5 million when you include Tijuana. • The Padres of MLB are the only major pro team in the area (although an MLS team, San Diego FC, is scheduled to begin play next year). The Cons: • Pechanga Arena is obsolete by modern NHL standards; however, a new development, Midway Rising, is supposed to replace the current arena with a 16,000-seat modern arena, and Avs owner Stan Kronke became the lead investor in said development. • San Diego may be too close to Los Angeles and Anaheim. Can California support a fourth NHL team?

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

I'm always happy to see new teams added to the NHL, and I actually had a crazy thought that I doubt would ever happen but would be funny to see is Hawaii getting a NHL team, their part of the states so techinally they'd be elgiable so long as they pay the fees and such. Again doubt it would actually happen but just a fun thought I had, realistically the NHL will likely want the bigger cities not claimed yet. It would be fun to see them try to get Arizona but I think they need to let that situation cool off before trying again.

[@mike91mdk45]

Quebec (The nordiques are my favorite defunct team and canada could definitely use another dog in the fight), Houston (Texas is always big enough for multiple teams), and Milwaukee (Beer, brats, and blades. Seems like an obvious hockey town) would be my choices

[@ned6464]

For another Ontario team, yes Hamilton would be the better option but what about Kitchener. The KW region has around 600k population (small market but passionate) but if you call it the Grand River you can pull in Guelph, Brantford, and others and really pull a good team. Also great location for travel, being close to BUF, DET, TOR, and an airport.

[@jonathanwoods3136]

Currently Meruelo doesn’t have any rights to the coyotes brand anymore, but in my mind I see the suns ownership (who has fiddled with the idea) bringing in a hockey team and building a multipurpose arena for both teams

[@mathewthomason8397]

It's crazy to me Milwaukee doesn't have a team

[@mathewthomason8397]

@RJMRJM1972 If they have an MLB, NBA and NFL (Green Bay), it seems like they could support an NHL team. It just seems like a hockey fit to me. Cold weather town. I'm from across the lake so maybe I'm crazy 🤷

[@squidMB]

And the NBA is reportedly “going to earnestly look into expansion” in the fall and would be between 4-5 billion for each team.

[@XaviRonaldo0]

It's insane the NBA has been at 30 for 20 years

[@angelod.pizzullojr.8971]

Houston is the no-brainer, and would make a great rivalry with the Stars. After that my 2 cents says Quebec, Milwaukee, and another try in Phoenix but really, really do your homework on vetting the new ownership. If not, KC or Portland OR.

[@giac13]

Hamilton is currently renovating the arena and adding an LRT so if the NHL does decide to potentially expand in 2035 I think these fixes to the City and arena can significantly improve their chances compared to the last few attempts

[@homogenized]

I'm from Atlanta! (Ask me anything, lol!) The main issue with using State Farm Arena is that they remodeled it after the Thrashers left and focused it solely on basketball. Like when the Islanders had to share with the Nets, it wouldn't be ideal. It could work for a couple years maybe until a different building is ready or they re-remodel State Farm. But hey, hope springs eternal lol anything is possible

[@Digikid313]

My dark horse pick for expansion is Orlando. The two big factors for me are that they host a quite lively fanbase for their ECHL team, the Orlando Solar Bears, and they would likely benefit from the same Vegas tourism effect. Lots of people vacation to Orlando and would sync up a vacation to watch their team play Orlando. Beyond that, the metro area is a healthy 2.5 million, and though Tampa is not far, it's a similar metro size and would likely not see a drop in ticket sales from migrated Orlando fans, plus it would appeal to northern Floridians more. The city also has an NHL ready arena with an ownership group that likely would be happy to host the team. If a new arena is in the cards, there's plenty of space to work with, not to mention the theme park juggernauts may possibly have an interest in having the arena near their parks to expand their entertainment districts.

[@tIhIngan]

The Québec French laws allow a trademarked English (or other language) name to be used, as long as the full name includes a descriptive name in French. Most English-named chains went this route, such as Wal-Mart ("Les Magasins Wal-Mart" is their official French name, literally "Wal-mart Stores") and McDonalds ("Les Restaurants McDonalds"). Only 2 English-named chains (that I know of) went what I would call "the full French route", and those are The Bay ("La Baie") and Kentucky Fried Chicken ("Poulet Frit à la Kentucky", and KFC became PFK). If they want to use Bulldogs as a trade name, they could call the team "Le Club de Hockey Bulldogs de Québec," similarly to so many soccer clubs who name themselves "FC such and such". The commonly used French translation of Bulldog is Bouledogue, but that is just a Francized version of the English name and feels improper. This may be due to Bulldogs only appearing in France around the 1850s (imported from Brittain), and therefore they probably just adapted the English name from then on.

[@Habebandebardown]

@Julia_Hammels_you could expand to dublin after to stay in the same spirit 😂

[@Habebandebardown]

@Julia_Hammels_ How did the british merch strore worked out ?

[@ominousflames14]

Speaking of Omaha expansion, I really liked the name the flames affiliate had when they were there. Ak-sar-ben Knights.

[@PenguinNote67]

Also, Houston, Quebec and Kansas City would have to pay territorial fees to teams in the same state/province

[@Christian_Martel]

No, exclusive territorial rights are only 75 miles from each NHL arenas.

[@PenguinNote67]

@Christian_Martel in the 70s the KC Scouts had to pay territorial fees to the Blues. I would still expect that because St. Louis would lose the KC TV market if KC got a team

[@BrickyMcghee404]

I live in houston, and us houstonians have been wanting a team for a while. People who say hockey isn’t popular in texas is wrong, sure not as popular as other sports, but still popular. We have ice skating rinks everywhere, a lot being named after the aeros. I’m confident we’ll be getting a team soon, fingers crossed 🤞

[@danielbiel9055]

Bettman did a visit to Omaha, owners in Omaha basically said they will outbid anyone when there is a team for sale next time, there will be an NHL team in Omaha in the next 10 years

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

maybe Houston and Quebec around 2030? Atlanta and Arizona later to build a more sure foundation? not a good idea to force it in Arizona and Atlanta, step back a little longer?

[@PrinceAnt722]

Now that Alex Meruelo is out, don't be surprised if the Coyotes come back in the next few years. Houston's AHL team (the Aeros) moved to Des Moines, IA and are called the Iowa Wild. Atlanta could work for the third time. The fact that they won't be playing in State Farm Arena (home of the Hawks) makes no sense.

[@vipeholmskolan6052]

How about Quebec French Bulldogs?

[@auzmo]

A new Atlanta team would be outside downtown and on the north or northeast side of town, possibly close to the braves.

[@scottgorski7541]

Nebraska Harvesters. Can do a scythe or a grim reaper play along with the wholesome fields of grain. Could be light jerseys for the fields and dark for the reaper.

[@lanceyatooma2331]

If in Toronto, have me play in Mississauga. Growing city with corporate presence and close enough to Toronto and far enough away from Buffalo.

[@toblujay]

Looking at population is great, but I encourage you to go another step and look at corporate headquarters of large corporations. Atlanta, Houston and Phoenix have lots of corporations who would purchase box seats.

[@jackdobrowolsky]

I think they should do Halifax. They would be able to add it to the Metropolitan since it’s very close to Boston

[@lawrencefrazier2044]

Hockey guy I like the way you think sir, you are a right thinking kind of guy. My expansion teams Houston, Atlanta, Quebec, Arizona, Hartford, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Cleveland, San Diego. Give everybody who wants a team and can afford a NHL team a team, of there very own. NHL go for It, We love expansion. Good for everyone, to have an NHL team. The more the merrier.

[@seancomyn4610]

Why Do You Type Like That?

[@1manX]

@@seancomyn4610 i dont know but i think that hockey guy is a pretty right kind of thinking guy myself.

[@tntrocketeer3478]

Why do you type like that?

[@BloodRider1914]

Les Bouledogues pourraient être un bon nom d'un franchise à Québec.

[@patch8376]

That is one high-flying word mark!

[@pierresoorden5975]

Imagine if Wisconsin had an NHL team

[@CS58420]

I don't think that Arizona has an edge on Quebec City nor do I think Hamilton does either. I do believe the NHL wants to try again in Arizona and if not expand to 4 more teams regardless. The main reason that Quebec City has a good shot in my opinion is to even out the expansion. Ottawa and Winnipeg have had the same struggles being smaller Canadian markets but are not in the situation Arizona was. Quebec City has a larger metropolitan population than Winnipeg and close to equal of Ottawa when they got the Senators. Edmonton and Calgary aren't very big either. The population is also likely to continue growing in all of Canada's major cities. The guaranteed passionate fan base makes it pretty solid but I don't see it without 3 American teams first.

[@jfitz2356]

I really wish Milwaukee got more love. They have passionate sports fans and love college and AHL hockey. They’d have great rivalries with the Wild and Blackhawks.

[@bobbypaluga4346]

I don’t know about Phoenix since a building has to be being built BEFORE they get a team and nobody is talking about building a 1.5 to 2 billion $$ arena with their cash. I live in Gilbert (Next to Mesa and Chandler) hockey talk is dead here. Hamilton and Quebec City would be great picks, Atlanta NO, Houston YES but after the two new Canadian teams. Super video, your depth of knowledge is incredible.

[@keithp2279]

I think it should be Atlanta Arizona Hamilton (or Greater Toronto area) and Huston

[@MuchNinija00]

I'm surprised that they haven't double dipped in Toronto