My disillusionment of Veganism

I needed to rant , I needed to let off steam . here it is . Feel free to comment

[@Pjvenom1985]

Honest ole video GVG, I 100% agree on Vegans & activists being more supportive and definitely avoiding any public drama. Showing a genuine positive united front should be a nice easy rule of thumb.🖖 Take care and be good sir!🌱🌅🍀

[@nuqi]

love this grandad!! amazing video... totally agree, ur not alone

[@The40yearoldVegan]

Amazing how anyone would attack Joey. People have no clue how difficult it is and the toll it can have, we def need more paid advocacy. I’m consistently trying to avoid drama within the movement because its a waste of time. All that energy can be spent on influencing others. Get them in the room 100%

[@LouisGedo]

👋

[@jonahwhale9047]

Imagine all the financial income that the movement receives as if it was one, like a government's annual budget. How would you divide it between all the different elements that require funding, e.g. street advocacy versus government lobbying, versus legal activism versus direct action etc etc etc. One of the problems that the movement is certain groups, & certain individuals, receive disproportionate amounts of that budget, not because they are the best, the most effective, the most necessary, the most accurate & essential but just because they got there first, they are the loudest, they have no morals as far as exploiting people's emotions etc. I"m thinking of big groups like PeTA here, as well as unaccountable "rock star vegans" like James 'Crypto' Aspey, rather than the money going to small grassroots groups who are out there ever weekend in unglamorous situations. The other big problem is that we have allowed the movement to become financially untransparent & unaccountable to the degrees that those rock star cashtivists & actorvists don't even think that they have a responsibility to tell their donors what they are doing with their money.

[@The40yearoldVegan]

@@jonahwhale9047 in terms of scale we are nothing compared to other lobbies. Certainly like other non-profit or even profit groups theres checks and balances. There’s always going to be shady players when it comes to $. My idea if I had 3 of me is to have a website with all activists a snap shot of their bio and then who ever comes in and donates to them based on what they think is of value to the movement. But thats just one idea. I also think if I could pay 15 20 people for some of their transportation getting out to an event having a bigger impact that would be great. Not everyone is going to agree with how things are divided but that’s just how it goes if its animal rights or any industry. We don’t have enough of us and for better or worse $ is just one additional stressor that people will use not to advocate. Vegan activists are what the 1% of the 1% and as someone who organizes I’ve seen a lot of people burn out how do we prevent that from happening. I’ve seen organizers come and go its normal but it also puts pressure on others. James is just one person if you think Petas bad then just don’t support them. Donors look at value and reach, they don’t easily give away $ they do have a vetting process, we only hear about the bad but what about the good.

[@jonahwhale9047]

@@The40yearoldVegan I have read your comment. Big donors do vet but the many small time donors don't. Charities & influencers both depend largely on them, & their often impetuous or irrational donations. Hence the typical 'making people upset/angry, by showing them something nasty, to milk them of money. Unfortunately, it's not enough to say, "if you don't like them, don't donated to them" (re: the PeTAs, HSUSs, etc) because what you have is a limited 'crop' in the 'field' of donors, with a few orgs armed with vast money extracting machinery, & the rest of the kind of activism you are talking about picking up the crumbs they leave. And then, on one hand, the big money goes to property owners, legal & management fees etc; and, on the other hand, in the case of social media influencers, anything from 25% to 40% on taxes to the government, (e.g. with Tash Peterson earning into the $100,000s with her PETA-esque "get your tits out for the animals" stunts).

[@bonchidude]

Nothing wrong about making a living to promote veganism. It is the payment that moves the advocacy forward. Hurray for Joey.

[@friendsnotfood2709]

I just love you and everything you are saying! We also love the content you make, thank you for being a voice for the animals!!🙏🏽I’m 100% with you. I feel your pain and frustration on this. I’m almost 53 yr old grumpy grandma lol , almost 8 years vegan and I was very outspoken the 1st several years. I joined groups looking for my community, added vegans to my fb page. ..just to find out some of the “vegans” are the worst humans ever.. I went vegan for the animals. But I would promote other benefits occasionally just to try to appeal to anyone that might never consider changing for animals …talk about pissing some vegans off ….Yea I KNOW veganism has nothing to do with health… but if you are eating healthy vegan foods, it can and will benefit you, so those posts about vegan Drs talking about the health benefits might make someone that wouldn’t change for animals change for themselves. Sure it’s not ideally what we want but if it gets them on the right path then the animals still win! 1 year after I went vegan my husband changed because he seen my health benefits and wanted that…once he went plant based and started researching and finding other vegan men and athletes ….he was then vegan for the animals and has been a very proud and outspoken vegan since the 1st week. So yea people that come to a plant based diet for health can be easily converted vegan with a small amount of the right resources. We love Joey and Ed and the others that made this their life. They have made drastic impacts and have talents I don’t have, I’d rather them do this full time and get paid than work like I do and never have time to fight for the animals. Their time is better spent doing activism full time! I found Joey early on when he 1st start. I went vegan 1/2016. And I’ve followed him since day 1. He does amazing work and has stayed consistent can’t say that for a lot of the keyboard warriors talking trash about the full time activists.

[@adiohead]

All we need to do is educated others to go vegan. That's the solution.

[@VeganKnave]

Thank you, Dan. I think a lot of people need to take this message to heart.

[@RogerYates]

I agree. It is a mistake to go "too deep" into veganism and we should not "correct" anything anyone says. When the Vegan Strategist says that people who eat fishes and eggs are vegans, we should not attempt to correct that. When Peter Singer says that he cannot see an ethical issue with free-range egg production, we should accept that from "the father of the animal rights movement." When Earthling Ed tells everyone that veganism is simply about "reducing suffering" just like the RSPCA says, no bother. When Reasonable Vegan keeps calling other animals "it," say nothing. When Melanie Joy says that eggs and dairy can be obtained "without violence," don't object to that. When PeTA give "visionary" awards to designers of slaughterhouses, who can argue with that - why *would* we argue with that? Tobias Leenaert is right, of course. If there is no gatekeeping in the vegan social movement, the movement will be absolutely massive. He wants to redefine veganism to make it more "flexible" and allow "exceptions" when people can eat other animals now and then. As Reasonable Vegan says, all the people who oppose punching cows in their faces are essentially vegans. We're almost there, folks. Most people are vegan already. Mind your own business and let animal exploiters tell people what veganism is.

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

So you miss the point and go straight into exactly what I thought you would do. Maybe it's the way I express myself in my neuro diverse way that gives you the wrong idea . My problem with people like reasonable vegan is that they are putting that message out there so are damaging the vegan message instantly along with others you mention . My problem is new vegans that I see asking for advice and getting it a little wrong just like I did . What these people need is guidance . But what they get is ridicule or history lessons of which I've seen so many times . Not once have I suggested that it's acceptable for anyone to claim they are vegan for environmental or health reasons and should be guided , but the initial motivation of environment or health as a reason for someone to even consider veganism is not a bad thing. You can spin my words any way you want Roger Dodger but what I say here is the reality of the situation . I see you havnt commented , however, on public spats between vegan influencer channels such as yours?

[@RogerYates]

@@GrumpyVeganGrandad Well, perhaps I heard you wrong, then, Danny. Apologies. If all you are saying is that people new to the vegan movement need guidance and it doesn't matter why they began so long as they run into the ethics asap, I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I must have shared a 2015 blog entry by Ginny Messina (The Vegan RD) entitled "Preventing Ex-Vegans: The Power of Ethics," hundreds of times over the years. She cites research saying the same essentially. In relation to the person you mentioned who tragically has suffered a burnout and, therefore, cannot answer for himself, I would be very surprised if he didn't also agree with that research. I will say, finally, that the language of "correcting" is not particularly useful. I prefer what Ronnie calls "inreach" or what academics would call social movement reflexivity.

[@freshairkaboom8171]

Right, I agree with this. It's not bad that they start with health or environment at all. Vegan curious people should not be shouted at, but it's important that we are allowed to speak the truth about veganism of course when lies about it is being spread, probably deliberately by the meat and dairy industry, in order to minimize veganism. Veganism being referred to as a diet or even as an allergic category is one of the many ways the meat and dairy industries have convinced people to not take the movement seriously. You have no idea how many times I've seen memes that go like "vegans can't tolerate milk? Weakness disgusts me." And similar...@@GrumpyVeganGrandad

[@jondapom8051]

First time seeing your channel and you came up with some very interesting points in this video. I’ve been vegan just over three years now and would love to try some activism but like you my life is full on ( not in a glamorous way ) and my free time is quite limited. I have often felt guilt as I tell myself I don’t do enough advocacy. So thank you, I shouldn’t pressure myself, I hear that now. I’m looking forwards to checking out some of your other videos. 😊🌱👊

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

don't pressure yourself, but if you feel you need to do something then create an anonymous tiktok . you can repost other vegans videos anytime , it takes a minute to do anytime of the day . Wear a vegan tshirt with a message or get some leaflets and leave them in shopping trolleys when you go shopping. But yes , thank you for being vegan .

[@JoshReeves1985]

I have seen a lot of dissagreements within the Vegan community but I don't know why it needs to be also made public like it's some kind of competition as to who can do better. I personally don't deal well with criticism especially having anxiety already. I started to feel like my content wasn't worth it in the end and then i had my hands full with my family too. I have much respect for you and anyone who is still making content and it is amazing if you can get support too.

[@freshairkaboom8171]

Thank you for your perspective, I totally see where you're coming from. I come from another perspective however, and I see it as just as important to gatekeep veganism as gatekeeping good. If someone can say "I am good because I go fishing" then I dont think that's right. Now, the time and place for gatekeeping can be discussed, I would never shout gatekeeping stuff in people's faces who didn't deserve it. Correcting people is also not something you do out of the blue, it's a teaching situation, and nobody's going to listen to some rando they don't respect. When I say gatekeeping, I don't mean "you're not vegan because you have this and this reason for not consuming animal products", I'm more than happy to call anyone who doesn't consume or purchase or participate in any form of animal exploitation vegan, even if their reasoning is arbitrary. What I am concerned about is the dillution of the animal rights movement. Veganism has a meaning, just like vegetarianism used to mean not consuming animals. Now even people who eat fish are calling themselves vegetarian, it's a joke of a movement. So the only time I feel the need to gatekeep is when people say they are vegan while say, going fishing with their parents because they don't know how to say no. Or calling themselves a vegan while deliberately (not by accident) buying cosmetics that were tested on animals. Or calling themselves a vegan while taking movie roles where they exploit horses for unnecessary entertainment. Because you can always find healthy or environmentally neutral/positive ways to exploit animals. It's not by accident or because of history that veganism is about ethics, it's because it's the only reason that covers all of the ways to not be vegan. We wouldn't call someone against child abuse if they still abused children, right? That's my point. Someone is not against animal exploitation if they still exploit animals. I appreciate your anger and I understand it, however I cannot in good conscience not respond when you insult those I call friends and tell them to fuck off, they do have good reasons. I'm going to chalk that up to your ADHD, so no hard feelings. Also I'm not trying to put you down or anything, I love and respect what you do, you are a brother in arms against these vile industries and I would bleed for you. I simply wanted to point out my perspective, as well as the perspective of a lot of other activists. If I didn't make myself clear on that I apologize. Summary: There's a time and place for gatekeeping, and a time and place to not gatekeep. I don't care so much about people's mental reasons as I do their actions, and ethics just happens to be the only mental reason that covers all of the ways to be non vegan. It has nothing to do with history or how it started. I love and respect you for the work you do for animals, and I ask you to please be kinder to those activists I respect and love too, instead of telling them to just fuck off. I understand your anger, and I'm not trying to put you down over this video. We are allowed to be angry over this topic because the results of our actions here have such impactful results on innocent animals' lives.

[@MostlyLoveOfMusic]

respect man, you're about as real as it gets, and your heart is in the right place, as painful as it is for any of us to make ourselves vulnerable to the truth

[@JJ-zf1nq]

Hey Danny, Julie here from mps. With you all the way. Spot on with everything you said. Anyone infighting has forgotten what it’s all about. You carry on being an amazing activist and inspiring other’s, making history and changing the future. ✌🏼

[@oluwaliblue8684]

Woke up to the grump side of the Grandad. I'd say going vegan for health is fine, as long as they stay vegan and don't start "incorporating fish to clear the brain fog" haha. Gatekeepers on the internet probably aren't indicative of the norm. As for activism, if a person that cares about making a vegan world wants to see change then it's probably imperative that they be the change they want to see and speak out or do SOMETHING aside from just taking pictures of vegan food and such. If a person just doesn't want to contribute to crimes against animals then yeah boycotting is enough, but i figure activism and spreading the message to many people would make more vegans faster.

[@VeganKnave]

💯

[@ethicallybasedexomnivore]

Thank YOU for this, Dan 🙏💚🥗🤠💯 Veganism isn't about clout and at the end of the day all that matters is that we have enough people viewing other animals as the individuals they are and aren't supporting the holocausting of innocent victims. Unfortunately in fighting is an aspect of any group but we've got to make sure we're putting our time into getting people to stop supporting these industries and the commodification of other animals. As long as they possess the moral baseline that's all the animals would TRULY give a shit about! You're awesome and the victims are damn lucky to have you on their side💚💚💚🥗🥗🥗

[@LouisGedo]

👋

[@wobblybobengland]

Love this Dan. Whereas I love and respect fellow Vegans, I'm happy to not worry about being involved in a cause, I'm comfortable with that.

[@seedygreen]

'kin right on! True words well spoken!

[@leonkootstra6301]

yeah, infighting sucks 🤢 it's something that apparently is common in all political groups though, especially online. if it makes you feel better, after 8 years of veganism i finally became an irl activist a month ago during one dam week from anonymous for the voiceless 😤 at the first day i choked up completely, but after 5 days i went in hard and made several people vegan 😤 i still need a lot more experience and unfortunately i wasn't able to copy the results of those days later on, but despite my limitations i'm still improving and optimistic about the future.

[@LouisGedo]

👋

[@VeganofCourse]

Really good video. I'm sorry you're feeling bad about the movement. There's still a lot of work to be done.

[@vegancrue13]

11 years vegan for the animals. I refuse/resist this selfish, gluttonous animal agriculture. People forget the golden rule which SHOULD apply to ALL animals. Peace, love & respect to all vegans. Subbed! Love the content.

[@TheVeganMooncat]

Great video mate I agree with so much you said ❤

[@biancat.1873]

23:15 Great points! And conditioning through advertisements is also really, really strong! Everywhere & every day the meat egg & dairy industry tells us that we NEED their products to be healthy. And tell a lie often enough, then people start to believe the lie & even defend it. Because admitting to being brainwashed is out of discussion. Nobody wants to be brainwashed and/or conditioned like a non-human animal in behavioural testing or studies. But we are. And it takes guts to admit this to yourself. Idk... maybe you also mentioned everything I wrote here, I haven't finished yet because I had to stop there to comment first. Will continue watching now. 💚🐾🌱

[@LouisGedo]

👋

[@LouisGedo]

22:40 Even though I *VERY STRONGLY DISAGREE* with lying or doing anything similar regarding Veganism and anything related, I agree that there are toxic people in the broader vegan community......... lots of toxic people in this community. 😔 *Thank you for all that you do to help those in need, especially the animals.* 💜

[@davidryan0808]

people are people, history shows us that. Interesting share and gives myself insight into other humans head who takes meds now. It matters little though, you are a thinker in my view. good egg and we have minds so we can change and learn

[@TuftyVFTA]

NIce one Dan, from one GVG to another! Took me 60 years to make the connection. Know that you're not alone Dan... ❤ Much respect.

[@williamwestmill6915]

While I agree that not every vegan needs to be an ethical vegan right away, ethical vegans are more likely to stick with the diet, so the sooner people become ethical vegans, the better. Non-ethical vegans are also free to buy leather and animal-tested products, so that's another thing

[@WalkingAwayFromOmelas]

Great video! I agree that all focus should be on minimizing the total amount of suffering, which means expediency is the most important factor.

[@Victoria-qb3dr]

I once asked on a vegan group about a good milk replacement to have in tea and got attacked by a vegan saying that I should put up and shut up. Luckily a lot of the other vegans in the group came to my defence against this person and were very supportive and helpful.

[@dobrickgenevo]

Yeah that one person was not representative of the community generally they would be supportive with that. Just ignore those types they could've even been a nonvegan troll. I'm glad you feel supported overall 💚

[@GG-mu4wg]

Well said. This has been a problem for the movement since the early 2000's. I partly blame social media which makes it much easier to patronise people with essays on being the perfect stereotypical vegan, rather than treating each person individually as you would in person. One size doesn't fit all

[@MostlyLoveOfMusic]

have a hug big man, let's keep pushing, we are the ones in the right, and it's amazing that we are still a minority

[@veganpundit1]

🎯🙏 💚🐾✊🏼💚

[@practicalplantlife]

This is good stuff, I think alot of people resonate with you more than you think, you got fire in your belly, keep making content and ring that bell.

[@mariohashiba1500]

I think it matters why people go vegan because we need to separate who's factually vegan and who's not. Think about the plethora of ex-vegans who gibberate about their health issues (without professional assistance), without even mentioning animal ethics (especially those cringe "raw vegans"). The majority of people think that veganims is a diet, including many people who call themselves vegan. This confusion is terrible for any social movement. Being plant-based has good consequences for animals, but it's a dietary motivation. It matters because veganism should place the (sentient) animal interests in first place, and not your health or any other selfish interest. It's a fight for justice, but extended to non human beings. Plant-based diets can be arbitrary and flexible but justice shouldn't. I personally think that principles should dictate our actions, not the other way around. If we regard that sentient animals should have the same negative rights as humans, then the rejection of veganism can be claimed as a moral absurd. But if we also regard veganism as a diet, then the absurd becomes vegans judging others' non vegan diets (because people have the right to choose what they want to eat). I appreciate your opinion and passion though. I agree with many parts.

[@MrTrevisco]

Superb Dan, gate keeping can wait until we have very many more vegans, of course we can suggest to educate where someone does not know about a specific vegan issue, do so and leave it, do not argue it, most who have become vegan will make changes when they know the detail eventually. You are needed as a voice Dan, try not to feel to down about controversies they really do happen in all movements, just pick any religion or political party, even local councils of only a few. We can weather them. Yes we must focus on the ones not yet changed, in any one of the numerous ways we already do so.

[@PigsDream]

Well said GVG!

[@LouisGedo]

👋

[@djcat64]

Love you honesty and passion Dan. Everyone is good at helping the vegan cause in a different way. Do what you are good at. I see the whole thing like a strategy game (with much higher stakes obviously) These industries need to be attacked on all fronts, every type of activism as often as possible. Support each other, finance it if you have the money to throw around and celebrate the guys and gals making a huge impact. How many people went Vegan thanks to a Gary Yourofsky, an Earthling Ed, a Patrik Baboumian, a Rich Roll, etc etc? Shitloads. And i know what you mean about trying to do anything like this while still working and maybe trying to keep fit/healthy and have a family or relationship. I cant imagine having time for it. So id rather work hard and support folks who i know will make an impact.

[@SuperVente]

Love you Dan x

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

ditto bro

[@veganvaudeville309]

You are conflating plant based with veganism. It is extremely important that we correct people who do this. It is not self righteous or virtue signalling but fundamental to the ARM. When people go plant based for the environment or their health, they are far more likely to give these stances up as soon as something else comes along that may be better for the environment or for their health. The damage to the ARM is done when these people tell other people that they were vegan and that it didn't work out for them, they then influence other people not to even look into veganism. Vegans stay vegan, plant based people don't stay plant based in general. Short term, I agree that allowing people to call themselves vegan and also to be active would be helpful. Long term, I believe it to be disastrous. The same goes for welfarism (happy exploitation) as oppose to abolitionism. Short term gain for a massive long term loss. If people don't make a connection with the animals, they won't stay vegan. I, like you came across veganism by one of these back doors and I agree that that does work. I would say that I was a plant based environmentalist and you were a plant based health advocate, until we both made a connection with the suffering and then went vegan. I understand this sounds elitist and may seem to be a big reason why the ARM is moving slowly. It is slow, but it is exponential and these small numbers doubling and tripling don't seem much till they are big numbers doubling and tripling. I agree that there is too much infighting. Thank you for your advocacy.

[@vietnamd0820]

There’s a friendly way to correct someone who’s on the right track, and then there’s a belligerent way to do it…if someone gives up eating animals, they deserve a conversation, not a scolding, as to why they should also stop buying things like leather and goose down jackets and stop going to horse races

[@hiking1388]

A lot of people wanna win the battle, but lose the war. It's really just about understanding human nature: for 99.9% of people, they will become defensive when faced with aggression. So, we have to communicate with them in a way that won't put their back up against the wall. And fun fact: most people don't like to be made to feel bad about their actions. So it's frustrating and slow, but most people will need a lot of coddling and encouragement to ...finally... maybe stop paying to abuse animals. Not just vegans, but most leftists are terrible about this as well. Though...I think the worst anti-vegans are the leftists. Many conservatives will just say, "yeah I don't care about the suffering of the animals mmm bacon" whilst the leftists need to twist themselves into loops to justify supporting factory farming and slaughterhouses. (And the dead zones / deforestation / general ecological devastation that comes with animal agriculture.) Tbh I think vegans should focus on the environmental benefits of going vegan because most people just have such limited empathy. Most people have kids, and love their kids, and yet don't think twice about buying chocolate created with the help of child slaves. I went vegan for the animals, though I pretend it's for the planet (though that's important too!!!). Seems to make people (especially leftists) a bit less defensive. Long story short: people need to stop saying mean shit to others and expecting the other person to be thankful for being told they're a terrible person.

[@dobrickgenevo]

Absolute legend. Really appreciate what you said. I don't want to come across as the people you described. But just wondering if someone who is vegan for health is really boycotting all the oppression etc if they're still supporting other industries like leather for example, and whether that's really enough. I agree not everyone needs to be an animal rights activist but should they not be fully vegan? A vegan/plant-based diet seems to be the only aspect of veganism that impacts one's personal health (directly at least). So "vegan for health only" would imply still supporting other animal exploitation since boycotting the other industries other than food would have to be for reasons other than health. Just speculatin'. Thanks for all you do and wishing you the best of luck 💚💚💚

[@dobrickgenevo]

Of course it's a step in the right direction and we should encourage that rather than doing nothing. I just meant I'm not sure if plant-based diet (vegan for health) is an endgame goal for people to strive for rather than complete veganism.

[@dobrickgenevo]

Put in other words, I like that you said I don't care why you're vegan as long as you're vegan. But if I'm being honest, I do care if they're not vegan, and vegan for health *only* implies not being fully vegan outside of their diet...

[@dobrickgenevo]

Which is a positive step, not an end-goal for individuals as a bare minimum requirement which would be boycotting all animal exploitation not just in diet (being an activist being additionally positive but not necessarily a requirement). My thoughts, I hope I didn't annoy you. I agree mostly with what you said. And I support your work immensely

[@Veganlife100]

Thank you for this, I loved hearing you speak from your perspective. Sending love 💚

[@pepperpig649]

On one hand i think we should educate people that veganism is more of an ideology rather than a diet. But on the other hand, people really have no clue what's going on and even when they do it's like telling a child that they are adopted like you said. But even worse. I see too many activists yell at non-vegans that they are cruel or that they are just a hypocrite or other passive aggressive remarks. We need to talk to non vegans with compassion and understanding and not gatekeep and judge. Encourage any approach to veganism.

[@geecee8864]

I have no idea why Dan doesn't get more views, all I can think of is the length of the vlogs might be too long for some people and they shy away. Maybe cutting them a bit shorter and more episodes? Either way thumbs up to Dan and thanks for your efforts 👍

[@vegangames3468]

❤

[@Meathead-10810]

24:00 I will agree that milk is not so good, it has too much sugar and is meant to grow baby cows into big cows fast. Once you start out on the carnivore diet you begin to see how addictive sugar/carbs are.

[@titovalasques]

You’re so inspiring! I’m 54 years old, been Vegan for more than 7 years now and I need to speak out more while showing compassion remembering who I was before I went Vegan. How did you find out you were neurodiverse??

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

I knew and pestered my gp for 10 years

[@indef2def]

Am I listening to the same guy who was shitting on ethical consequentialist vegans a few months ago? Glad you came around, anyhow. Subscribed just now, and looking forward to your future content.

[@vfta7906]

Casn you expand on this please?

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

I dont understand what you mean

[@reesecarr2105]

💚

[@omrxblah4572]

what happened with you and Those Vegan Guys? you all seemed really down-to-earth, but it sounds like you fell out a while ago :/

[@miguelmiguelbcostasantos7897]

real legend

[@amberize9213]

Subbed, coz of your wonderful words 😊

[@SpookyVegHead]

Thank you ❤

[@experty84]

💪🌱

[@Rockin23]

Vegan Power!!!!!

[@camillachristinenorveganus161]

❤✌🙏

[@keeshea6718]

if they're really vegan then of course that is good, although I do believe that you are first really vegan once you understood the moral urgency. but so many of the environmentalists or healthies say things like i'm 90% vegan or they are reducetarians and claim to only eat meat on Sundays. Isn't it important to explain to those people why they should be 100% vegan and be so for moral reasons?

[@asmrpillow457]

thank you, we love you

[@biancat.1873]

💚🐾🌱 💚🐾🌱 💚🐾🌱

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

Nobody takes an issue with someone making a living at a food bank helping the hungry humans. Nobody takes an issue with a doctor or a vet making money on helping the sick. But if a vegan makes money spending their full life's work focusing on animal rights that's a problem? I'll borrow an expression from across the pond and say to those people that have problem with it "Sod off!"

[@jobloggs8022]

good on ya mate I love your honesty

[@3CVeganHuntSabs]

Some good points, don't agree with everything but honest, passionate X

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

I'd love to have the answers ..but yes I think we all need to be honest with ourselves and others

[@jonahwhale9047]

Starts about 4:34. 11:41, it's not about "making a living out of veganism", but taking money out of the vegan movement as personal income, rather than it going to the animals. Making money out of ideas that other vegans developed at their own cost. I wouldn't bundle in everyone you did as one, but a more transparency & accountability about how much money they are taking out of the movement would be a good thing. No one should be taking more money out of the movement as personal income than Donald Watson did, unless it is part of honest, ethical business providing a service or product. Some of whom you mention do, others are just cashtivists or actorvists. What's Gary Yourofsky been doing since the money stopped coming in? There are additional problems with doing advocacy for a living to the extent where acting up for the camera becomes more important than actual effectiveness, & self-promotion become damaging to the greater cause. If it's true that "power corrupts", the media is even better at it. You can't make people go vegan. Most vegans can't even make their family members go vegan. People only become vegan when they are ready within themselves. It requires a basically unknown & uncontrollable combination of factors leading up to the realisation. The vast majority of advocacy, especially online advocacy, is an absolute waste of time, energy & resources. People like Ed & Joey etc don't make vegans. Vegans make themselves. What they are doing is essentially reaping the benefits of decades worth of other vegan activists work. Harvesting, i.e. taking wealth out of, the rich fields that others have laboured over, at their own expense, & created the opportunity (which is why, e.g. Joey's donors are paying to have him & his girlfriend fly over to the UK to run his business there rather than, say, Nigeria or Rwanda, where not only is so much more foundational work required, but also where the money in the movement would buy x100 times more influence).

[@ImPickleTwitch]

Love this!

[@TuftyVFTA]

Can I ask you a very serious question Dan? Do you 100% believe that when you went plant based - as you did for your health - if you'd NOT come across Joey and Ed, do you think you'd have been thinking 'vegan' for 7 years? Or do you think - as you said - that when you got into Joey & Ed, that that's when you really became vegan? We tell people all the time 'veganism is not a diet', because it's not, as you quite rightly say it's about abolishing the exploitation and abuse of other sentient beings. I totally agree with you that we need to all get 'in the room' but I've so often come across so called 'vegans' who don't give a fuk about animals, and in a short time they'll be doing something else that's popular or 'the in thing' I guess I'm a bit confused about what it is that you're calling 'gate keeping'? Would you have really appreciated an animal rights activist pushing you to watch Joey & Ed and to learn that being vegan isn't about food or health or the environment. You said about plant based dieters : "if you're not advocating for animals that's fine, just don't go back to oppression murder, rape, just don't go back to it." I think the point is that an awful lot of plant based dieters DO go back to animals products, because they were never vegan, they never made the connection with 'oppression murder, rape' They weren't vegan, they were plant based. I 100% agree with you that it's wonderful for anyone for ANY reason to go plant based. No one would argue with that. But of the people that are living a plant based lifestyle, those who are doing it for health, or the environment are NOT vegans, they are plant based dieters. I think that's really important to understand.

[@vfta7906]

Agree 100%

[@freshairkaboom8171]

Thank you, you explained my feelings a lot better than me. For me, it doesn't matter so much what people are convinced about in their head, as long as they don't exploit any animals. I just can't think of another reason that someone would be avoiding all animal exploitation.

[@TuftyVFTA]

@@freshairkaboom8171 I think it matters because people who are plant based for health or environmental reasons, are not in touch with or aware of the exploitation. It just happens to be a knock on effect of their environmental or health regime that the animals don't get exploited. So when they decide they can change their diet to animal products again for more - equally valid - health reasons, they start exploiting animals again. And people do this in their thousands. They read that the food a vegan eats is nutritious and healthy, so they start eating a plant based died, but the word 'animal' has never even been mentioned, so as soon as they get sick of their new vegan style diet, back they go to animal products. Similar with environmentalists, one month they are deciding that it's better for the environment to have a plant based diet, the next it's an electric car, that's better than a plant based diet, AGAIN no mention of the word animals. So they drop the plant based diet and buy an electric car. It's ONLY ethical Vegans who are living a plant based lifestyle BECAUSE they are making a stand for animal rights. Veganism is NOT, and never will be a dietary choice, it's all about animal rights.

[@TuftyVFTA]

@@freshairkaboom8171 The problem is with the word 'vegan' it now has many different meanings and corruptions from it's original meaning. That's why I'm more of the time using the label 'sentientist' for myself. I do what I do because I care about all sentient beings. Food doesn't need to be mentioned. But someone who is a sentientist would never consider forcefully breeding other sentient beings into a captive existence, to fatten them and kill them at an early age for food and clothing. So a sentientist is by default an ethical vegan and an anti-speciesist. Nothing whatsoever to do with human health and environment, even though those things improve indirectly because of being sentientist.

[@mariohashiba1500]

There's not exactly a single right way of being vegan because, despite the official definition (which I disagree with, as an animal right advocate), there are different moral theories that can be applied to animal ethics. However, regardless of your moral compass, it's entirely different than being plant-based because the motivations are different. It's not a simple linguistic or semanthic matter. It's about logic and facts. Throw those out of the window, and everything becomes futile.

[@Meathead-10810]

Vegans do not take into account that the seed oil industry supplies almost all of the dry animal feed which is fed to factory farmed animals. Yes, our plant based diet is promoting and causing the suffering of factory farmed animals. I would prefer it very much that my food was pasture raised but all the plant matter waste enabled the animal factory farms.

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

Wrong . You have that completely the wrong way round . It's the soya feed industry that enables the oil

[@Meathead-10810]

I was on a plant based diet for 2 years for health but unfortunately I found that those are all lies, plants are the opposite of health and now I eat a carnivore diet. The vegan movement creates the most carnivores ever. At least we are finding out that saturated fat, cholesterol and meat are very healthy.

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

enjoy your heart disease

[@treewitch666]

I heard the word JOURNEY and knew this was click bait lol

[@vfta7906]

Listening to this, I can understand where you are coming from. However, if your goal is to stop people permanently engaging in animal exploitation, it is absolutely paramount that people go vegan for the animals. A vegan for health or a vegan for the environment is nothing more than an ex vegan in the making. Vegan education starts with the clear definition that this movement is about animals. Nothing more nothing less. I never deride a vegan activist for their activism and the way in which they want to approach the subject. I definitely do not want dissuade good people from doing good things but making people understand this is about ending animal suffering has to be and is the only reason why you are vegan.

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

I totally agree . And I am definitely not saying we let people off the hook because they have switched , I'm saying we shouldn't go in too hard if their reasoning is anything other than AR

[@vfta7906]

@@GrumpyVeganGrandad fair enough.

[@jonahwhale9047]

Unfortunately, a) that's not what the founders of the movement thought, & b) "the environment' is "about the animals" as without it, other species are even more fooked than human beings are. Thee founders were very much concerned about the environment, & proving veganism could be done healthily.

[@vfta7906]

@@jonahwhale9047 no the “founders” explicitly define the none exploitation of animals. The environment is simply promoted as a benefit.

[@jonahwhale9047]

@@vfta7906 You've clearly never read anything that they wrote then, e.g. in the early Vegan magazine & you find them concerned about the exploitation of the soil. Read Watson & Cross on the balance of nature. Looking into Kathleen & Jack Jannaway, & the early conception of forest gardening, & what nature/the countryside in a vegan world would look like. Read up on the early anti-pesticide positions etc. Bear in mind that Watson cleared off after 3 years & basically wasn't heard of again, & ask who else was discussing what. If you're depending on the much copied internet only material, you're only seeing a small fraction of what exists. There is an archive of correspondence & material that has not yet, & probably never will be uploaded. All species depend on the environment, & so the environment is a major concern, as has been since the beginning.

[@bonchidude]

Yeah, vegans should NOT be attacking other vegans. If there is a disagreement between if keeping leather items around the house or not or the exceptions then do it privately. If it was a gift be4 becoming vegan you can dump it but if the person died then i say keep it. Your thoughts? I have one leather item that was given to me b4 I decided to stop eating animals. The person that gave it to me died of a disease. I kept it because it is something they gave me. There are no other items like that.

[@philddlesticks]

you could start a meth lab lol... j/k i think the reasoning matters in the long term because without the morals, ethics, people may not be fully onboard with veganism being a justice movement which is important

[@VeganBrianAnimalActivist]

Maybe it is time to change the name "Grumpy" to "Activist" HEADS UP we all feel that stress you feel......................

[@Vegan.Veteran]

I love the moustache mate, very sexy ❤

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

I'm sex on legs, I'm vegan 🤪

[@BearTechNation]

I've stopped calling myself "vegan" in favour of "Wholefood Plant-Based" as I can't stand the vegan movement. It's too fucked up. Too many egos. It's too negative. Is that a leather couch I see in the background? If it is, how do you feel about it?

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

I think you should call yourself vegan . I think being afraid of being proud of your compassion for animals because of the few is unfair to the good vegans . The leather couch is over 12 years old, when it needs replacing it will he a vegan couch, I don't have an issue

[@BearTechNation]

@@GrumpyVeganGrandad Well, I didn't make that decision lightly (to stop calling myself "vegan"). My decision has nothing to do with being 'afraid'. It has everything to do with wanting to distance myself from vegan extremists, and wanting to be approachable to anyone interested or thinking about making a transition to clean plant-based eating for a lifetime. Sadly, the word 'vegan' has become very negative, and I do not want any part of it. With regards to your leather couch... I get it... I had a few vegan extremists telling me to burn or bin my leather gear from a past phase in my life. To me, this is moronic. Instead, I gave it to a charity shop. These vegan extremists would rather a homeless person die of hyperthermia than inherit an old leather coat. That's fucked up! Wholefood Plant-Based it is!

[@freshairkaboom8171]

You could always call yourself pro animal rights or similar,wholefood plant-based purely refers to a diet, not anything to do with leather or zoos, or animal testing right? Am I wrong?@@BearTechNation

[@TurningVeganese]

I have no problem with vegans making money, in fact I think all vegans should get paid just for being vegan 😎 but it seems to me that you've fallen into the trap of "let's bring more people to veganism" by lowering the bar and making veganism into something that it's not. Veganism is an ethical stance against human to non-human animal opppression in all of its forms, and if we dilute this message we run the risk of making veganism into nothing more than a fad. I'd rather be seen as an unhinged lunatic and be hated for standing up for what's right, than be seen as a "reasonable" person who makes a lot of friends by sugar coating the message and making the oppressors feel great about their choices.

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

no not at all . I am in no way saying dilute any message . I am saying firstly I'm happy people are vegan wether they are actively out spreading the message or not. Secondly I am saying if people come to veganism for anything other than animal rights they should not be attacked with long winded essays about the animal rights movement, they should be welcomed and then they will be open to being educated on animal rights and the true vegan philosophy

[@tylerwhitney3443]

The Dharma might help you friend. Thich Naht Hanh was vegan

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

😍

[@VeganofCourse]

First

[@tyke269]

.Haha, you really are a big kid at heart 😅. Don't change 🌱.

[@VeganofCourse]

@@tyke269 well I'm never first!

[@berniv7375]

Thank you for the video.🌱

[@a-bas-le-ciel]

Bro, I am _way more_ disillusioned than you: get on my level. ;-)

[@bonchidude]

GVG is in and on your face.

[@mazi2646]

You seem very negative. I think you are overreacting 😐

[@GrumpyVeganGrandad]

Maybe I am . But do I keep my negativity to myself

[@mazi2646]

@@GrumpyVeganGrandad Well that's up to you of course. 🙂

[@jonahwhale9047]

Nah, that's just what Northerners are like all of the time. It's the weather.

[@SeamusOReilly-xp3pr]

LMFAO cope harder

[@michaelhoile1369]

Great video 📹 👍 👏