My Experience With A Golden Dawn Cult

[@itswhatyoumakeit6950]

You seem very genuine and kind Jeremy, I appreciate ya!

[@joycekoch5746]

Finding real Golden Dawn groups actually working like Yeat's or Mather's Golden Dawn is difficult as many are not Golden Dawn at all but versions of Crowley's various orders. Back in the early 90's I was able to find a group that was working off the Builders Of The Adytum material. Though B.OT.A. is a excellent surviving tradition, I fault it for being so overtly Tarot focused and so cautious in it's work that one can be stuck on outer order material for years before learning anything worthwhile. Though Tarot and the Tattva vision is excellent for path working, it is no substitute for real astral travel and many other aspects of learning real hard core Magick. If you find a GD group that does not impress you with it's members go with your gut feeling. Real magicians have a presence and real magical orders have a aura of power around them - if the people don't resemble that you can rest assured you are wasting your time.

[@allisonkaspersky2339]

agree with you. the BOTA is excellent but far too restrictive as you state. Getting the Cicero material and working the system on your own is an excellent way to go and will advance one without an order. Zink is a manipulative asshole and very dishonest.

[@JeremyCrow]

The GD group I'm referring to in this video was very much anti-Crowley. They were almost afraid of him. I did end up joining the BOTA for a while and I enjoyed their lessons, but I never got into the real magick stuff, just as you said. It helped that I am personally very interested in Tarot and use it quite a bit in my esoteric practices, not just for divination. I had one friend who was somewhat of a mentor to me who was heavily into BOTA before I met him but had split off to form his own group using the same material but less restrictive. He felt like the new head of the BOTA after Paul Foster Case was actively discouraging members from having real experiences. We had a lot of long conversations. Great guy and actually a professional touring musician from a band that had a moderate amount of fame in Canada. After leaving BOTA I did briefly join a different splinter group, FOL, I believe it was, and they did something similar with the lessons as BOTA but perhaps slightly better. Ultimately I left because I wanted something more than just regular lessons mailed to my house with the occasional long distance interaction with someone who was grading my work. I don't currently work directly with the Golden Dawn based material anymore, but obviously they've had such a huge impact on the magickal scene that it's near impossible to avoid their influence. I've explored a bunch of different groups over the years, beyond just GD based ones, and the overwhelming majority of them have some major issues. I consider myself a Gnostic Luciferian these days and work with my own system that I've developed and am teaching others. My group is called the Novus Ordo Luciferi. I'm also slightly active in one other group that focuses on dreamwork inspired by a symbolic interpretation of H.P. Lovecraft's stories. That group goes by the name of The Esoteric Order of Dagon. I'm aware of two different active groups using that same name. The one I'm a member of is the non-thelemic one. So far it's pretty decent, but it's a quite small group and I haven't had the time to get too deep into it yet.

[@thenowchurch6419]

The fact that instead of answering your question they sent an application form, was a big red flag. The dude trying to be like Mathers is an even bigger red flag.

[@JeremyCrow]

Yes, lots of red flags. I was a lot less experienced back then and didn't recognize all of them at the time, but I did manage to eventually get out of that situation.

[@thenowchurch6419]

@@JeremyCrow One Love.

[@linobianchi8865]

Hi I've just come across your video, and I must say that you are right, Morning Star was the first GD Order I joined as it was the most convenient option for me at that time. Apart from being very catholic, which is ok, they had this "promotion" approach which maybe works for an American culture, but not for an European or at least Italian mentality. Orders don't need to be secret anymore nowadays, but I'm convinced that they should not look for members, as religions do, being discreet is still part of the hermetic fundamentals, after all occult means hidden

[@drivebyninjastar]

Not a legitimate GD temple.

[@larryloucks8329]

Jeremy thanks for all of these vids. I've seen what you described in many "spiritual" and "religious" settings - where one person takes offense at some thing unknown to the other and walks away from what was a valuable relationship or friendship. It always seemed to me to be petty and more importantly no in line with some of the most basic ideals of spirituality (i.e. "If your brother has offended you go to him and if you are reconciled you have regained your brother." This is Life Lessons 101. Always a bit mystifying to me.

[@williampatchen]

I appreciate you sharing your story . I would have latered also . However It’s also important to acknowledge that golden dawn books are available. So you can just learn in and hopefully enjoy it and maybe find a couple people to learn and practice with . I am involved with a magical order and the people In my group are very chill and respectful of each other. I wouldn’t put up with any guilt trips or bullying either . Not all golden dawn groups are bad .

[@JeremyCrow]

@@williampatchen Oh, I absolutely agree. The story I shared in this video happened at least twenty years ago. I no longer practice Golden Dawn style ritual but it was certainly valuable to learn at the time. My practice has evolved and changed over the years and at this point I've developed my own unique system of occultism that I refer to as Luciferian Alchemy. I've also launched a new Esoteric Order called the Novus Ordo Luciferi. We've got members in at least 8 different countries already.

[@derekmckenzie1055]

I love the videos you have where you use stories like this. That group definitely was a cult and not occult, a lot like a strict church. The guy obviously thought he was a God like person and being enabled by some of the other members. You did what I would do and question their practices. The "final straw" would have been trying the exact same for me. Great video!

[@JeremyCrow]

Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. I've been meaning to have more videos where I just tell stories from my experiences in the occult world. I've seen some wild stuff in my life, often as an active participant! haha

[@Alien-Earth1]

They say the only difference between a cult and a religion is how my real estate they own.

[@Mtzrlein]

Frater... my experience was short lived with that same order. There were some things I didn't understand concerning a fracture in the order almost immediately after I was initiated by the order. I was very sad to see things go that way as you probably feel the same way. Keep your eye open and work through what you know is right. But it eould be good to have a conversation if you'd like. - MTZ

[@hellogornto]

Hey I just wanted to say whenever I get down on myself and I think I need to go join a group I watch what I just watched

[@JeremyCrow]

I'm glad I could help! I've been involved in a bunch of different groups over the years and finding a good one that doesn't have issues is damn near impossible. Right now I only have interest in two groups. One is a small Esoteric Order doing advanced dreamwork based on symbolic interpretations of H.P. Lovecraft's stories. Seems pretty decent so far but time will tell. The leadership of that group recently changed hands, while the previous leader is still involved. That kind of thing tends to be a good sign. The other one is a Gnostic Luciferian Esoteric Order that I created with the intention to share the occult system I've developed in the 30+ years of working with this stuff, while trying to avoid the many issues I've encountered in other groups I've been involved with in the past. It's called the Novus Ordo Luciferi.

[@Alien-Earth1]

They say the only difference between a cult and a religion is tax exempt status.

[@adamjondo]

Dear JC, My Orders attempts to evoke Santa Clause keep backfiring. Please advise.

[@JeremyCrow]

What Order are you involved with? What method are you using? What are you hoping to achieve by evoking Santa? Also, when you say "backfiring" what exactly do you mean? Like it doesn't work, or you get an undesirable result? Or are you just trolling?

[@adamjondo]

@@JeremyCrow Look to the 'Deck of Thoth' for all those answers.

[@Jlpyoutube]

Good video. So, from your point of view what is the best order?

[@JeremyCrow]

Excellent question. I guess it really depends on what you're looking for. I learned a lot from each one that I participated in, but each one also had it's issues. Ultimately I became inactive in every Order that I didn't create myself. Maybe if you tell me more about what you're hoping to get out of an Esoteric Order I can give you a couple suggestions on ones that you should consider.

[@etiennebarnes8330]

pulled towards Thelma / luciferian

[@thetreeoflife6018]

Try to remember that : They did what they did because it was Magickal……

[@gesudinazaret9259]

There’s no difference between flesh and spirit

[@hellogornto]

I was never any kind of member at all

[@joycekoch5746]

Real Magick orders have an aura of power around them as do their members. If you find an order than looks like it is mostly made up of geeks, ageing hippies, Trump haters and people who like to paint themselves up like something out of The Rocky Horror picture show you are probably wasting your time. The best magicians I have ever seen tend to have a low profile and might be conservative lawyers or stock traders or judges by day rather than rock musicians or people who cut hair and do nails. This is not to say this is always true but it TENDS to be the case. It takes real work to find true Golden Dawn Orders as they don't advertise and they invite members in rather than advertise. If you are doing astral travel and meeting guides these real magicians will discover you and invite you in due time.

[@joycekoch5746]

@Assoluto Cosmico Academics and professionals are very much in to Magick. You wouldn't know it as they don't talk about it or walk around wearing Aleister Crowley shirts or covered in tattoos of an occult nature. The serious magicians of today don't dabble and they are usually well up in years and highly disciplined in their work. When I meet my first real Golden Dawn Order in the 80's I was taken in by their high academic achievement and impressive bank accounts -they had clearly already proven their ability to be very successful in the world and in their professions to be considered successes. Most were white men in their 40's with some white women in their 50's. I suppose I was lucky to have found the real deal and was very much impressed by what I learned and their ability which was proven to me on several occasions- especially in the ability of astral travel and creating and using elementals. It might well be that such Magickal orders no longer exist but I got to know the real deal. Examinations were hard and you had to know Hebrew up and down and master a great deal of dry material before they would start to teach you anything - that usually meant 18 months of study before you could even apply to join the inner order and many people were simply never invited to do so.

[@thenowchurch6419]

Golden Dawn real magicians ? LOL !

[@joycekoch5746]

@@thenowchurch6419 They exist - The thing is one doesn't have to join an order - if one does the work and one starts to do astral travel it is just a matter of time before they will learn about you. Of course, if one is such a person as Woody Allen once said "I wouldn't want to join any group that would have me as a member" than one shouldn't.

[@thenowchurch6419]

@@joycekoch5746 Fair enough. I personally feel that an order based on the Golden Dawn is redundant in this day and age. A group of adepts who just come together as a team of friends is more my cup of tea.

[@jodiecollins1546]

This makes sense. I have no idea about any of this stuff really, I'm a Christian yet always been intrigued in magic yet when I would unknowingly astral travel I would meet guides and on one particular occasion was told I wasnt ready in my travel. Here I am 5 years later for SOME reason interested again. I feel like they are calling me back

[@electromagnetic]

Wait wait wait, so this is an Ishtar/bel cult?

[@Mtzrlein]

No it wasn't

[@germanshepherd9982]

When you get heavily involved in church,,,,,, It is very similar to what you're stating........ Starve the flesh,,,,Feed the spirit,,,, Same principles,,,,,, If People were getting involved in the supernatural,,, Well there are plenty of gifts of the Holyghost.... There is a supernatural side of the Bible and Christianity found in 1st Corinthians chapter 12,13, and 14.... These are some pretty awesome gifts too.... But anyway this golden dawn sound similar to the real deal church...... Not a Mickey Mouse church,,, But a church that teaches The Bible and""""""" holiness"""""""""

[@blathermore]

The Catholic/Orthodox Christianity believes in self restraint and the commandments.....not that the 'flesh' is evil or the 'spiritual' is good......that's basically Manichee teaching and Christian they never were. The core teaching of Orthodox Christianity is Mercy and forgiveness, not condemnation. Besides, Paul said "Marriage is honorable and the bed undefiled' in rejection of those of his own day who despised even marriage and a family.

[@PROTHAMASENGUPTA]

I didn’t know cult and occult are different

[@JeremyCrow]

Completely different words. Occult literally means "hidden" and in practical use it refers to esoteric knowledge and practice. Cult is a word that means a small religious or spiritual organization and in common practice usually refers to a group that uses coercive and manipulative methods to extract resources (time, energy, money, sex, etc...) from it's members.

[@vhfraterdn7617]

Yeah bro you should do your homework before you join any group and make sure they are in alignment with your beliefs. When you don’t this is what happens.

[@frankjimenez4601]

I think that Jeremy should of stayed in the Order. The statement to him wasn't anything but an encouragement to him to focus more on his spiritual ambition. He could of shrugged it off and still go on a date or hang out, and remain in the Order. He got an advice and decided to leave. It wasn't a command to not go. It was a good spiritual brother looking out for you, no harm. I would leave a group if they are abusive (i.e. physically, emotionally, mentally, monetarily). If they show to be fake having no proof of lineage, authenticity, or certificates/charter etc. Remember we come in as rough ashlars, we are around other rough ashlars, so no one is perfect or great when you are at lodge. I love those who apply fraternal effort in and out of lodge, as I also try to do as well. Think it over and perhaps return on the path.

[@JeremyCrow]

Did you watch the whole video? That incident was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I was seeing so many red flags I thought I was in China. We were told we were the only legitimate Golden Dawn because our leader, Robert Zink, was the reincarnation of Mathers. His portrait done up to look like Mathers was hung in the local Temple and Zink was practically worshipped. We were told that there were other competing Golden Dawn groups that were trying to literally kill us, with stories of drive-by shootings targeting our temples, and the ever constant threat of magical attack. They had us doing protection rituals constantly to protect the Order from these supposed attacks. I recently spoke with a guy who stayed longer than I did and he told me they started pressuring people into signing legal contracts agreeing to give the order hundreds of dollars every month. Stop making excuses for them, Frank. They were a cult. I'm not saying that the Golden Dawn in general is a cult. I'm saying that the organization which I was a member of, who happened to use the Golden Dawn structure to organize themselves, that they were a cult. The Golden Dawn is a powerful system, but in the hands of bad people it can become a cult.

[@frankjimenez4601]

@@JeremyCrow I don't know what I was thinking, you're right.

[@Jason.1734]

Dodgy Rob Zink sorry you got conned

[@kylepatrickmurphy4058]

Thanks for the story…it’s hard to be interesting in the arcane and sift through the crazy🤣🤣🤣

[@odinsmeadhorn196]

Threatens date night = red flag

[@JeremyCrow]

If you can't have a personal life outside the Order, that's a pretty big red flag. Don't you agree?

[@odinsmeadhorn196]

@@JeremyCrow Please don't take the following statement harshly I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm only speaking from the heart. ​I think you might be over reacting. From the sounds of it this person you are speaking about is one of those 'I'm the better follower and I can prove it,' kind of people. Every church or organization I've ever been a part of has one or three of these kinds of people. Don't let someones insecurities spoil your experience, don't toss the baby out with the bath water.

[@CHRISTOPHERDIPAOLO]

Kinda weird lame video. But do what thou wilt I guess. 93

[@JeremyCrow]

@@CHRISTOPHERDIPAOLO What is weird and lame about it?

[@blathermore]

Thank you for sharing. The is nothing exclusive about Jesus of Nazareth. He shunned nobody. Reincarnation is contrary to Christianity because it is a self help religion progressing through lifetimes. Christianity is about the Incarnation of God and the need of a Savior who stays with us in THIS WORLD teaching us to be human beings of good will, forgiveness, and humility. It's almost the opposite of 'spirituality' and has no part with magic or the occult or the idea that creation is an inferior place. Didn't you find this cult a very unwholesome group tempted to the huge sin of intellectual and spiritual pride?

[@JeremyCrow]

I get what you're saying and it's an interesting insight. So these people were closer to the Catholic view of Christianity in which acceptance of Jesus as lord and savior is necessary but not sufficient for salvation. You also have to do good works. This Golden Dawn cult would be like an esoteric version of that idea, in which you need to perform ritualistic acts and monastic type devotion in order to attain a connection with God. Hope that makes sense. I didn't feel like their intellectual pride was what made them unwholesome, but was more about their manipulation of members in order to achieve their worldly goals.

[@roddor5301]

You chose flesh instead of spirit... Sinner! Haha

[@JeremyCrow]

Haha. Exactly! I grew up Roman Catholic and worked my way out of that cult of guilt and shame. I've developed an eye for that type of manipulation. Haha. Did he really think that shit would work on me? I was offended that he actually tried it! I should have said, "Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me." I actually don't remember what I said, but I sure as hell didn't go back to the temple to paint the walls! lol

[@roddor5301]

@@JeremyCrow "Your Jedi mind..." hahaha he's Just a vulgar preacher man; shameful.

[@dorfriedman9115]

I study Kabblah and understand what he was trying to do but without pre-knowledge you would have be sure to kick this lesson and this was his mistake

[@doppelganger9254]

You sound like a cool guy to hang out with... maybe you should start your own groupies

[@JeremyCrow]

I have actually started my own Esoteric Order called the Novus Ordo Luciferi. I encourage you to look it up if you're interested in learning more about it.

[@matthewalkman3735]

The guy was right. You don’t have the discipline to be a member.

[@Luelseditsandprojex]

Bro... just stop

[@JeremyCrow]

Are you talking to me? Stop what? I already quit the Golden Dawn years ago.

[@Luelseditsandprojex]

Jeremy Crow stop what you’re saying Bc you’re clearly out of your element

[@JeremyCrow]

@@Luelseditsandprojex Could you elaborate? You're not expressing yourself clearly at all. I definitely know my way around an Esoteric Order if that's what you're talking about. What's your experience in that realm?

[@THE_Secular_Conservative]

Golden dawn= snowflakes

[@ericallen7112]

weak minded fools are they.

[@blathermore]

According to old Catholic teaching the greatest of all sin is spiritual pride...being snotty about spiritual experiences is the road to hell.