A revelation I had after watching Shin Kamen Rider that made Build feel even more special to me: Despite looking like your run-of-the-mill modern Kamen Rider series on the surface, it still ended up being strongly faithful to classic themes that defined the original series/manga, was redefined in Black, and later deconstructed in Kuuga. It did an amazing job reinforcing the tragedy of being a Kamen Rider, and how the sadly thin the line between being a man and being a monster really is. What's more amazing is that this show was written by someone who've had zero prior Tokusatsu involvement.
@justinarzola45844 ай бұрын
W, Gaim and Build are my favorite Heisei Phase 2 for how they. Remind me of of older seasons, Gaim and Build feel like early Heisei and W has some of that classic Showa spirit.
@FordJohnes4 ай бұрын
While I have a largely different opinion on how I'd order the list myself, jokingly throwing 555 under the bus and still ranking it at 5 really hits the nail on the head.
@davez83464 ай бұрын
I dragged myself through watching it, but afterwards, especially after watching the movies, I couldn't get it out of my head. I think it'd benefit a lot from having more material in a shorter amount of time, which is why I love both movies.
@jouheikisaragi60754 ай бұрын
Faiz is that show that is genuinely terrible, yet it sticks with you because everything except the execution of the show is genuinely really good
@Ijustusethistocommentstuff3 ай бұрын
@@jouheikisaragi6075 The designs, concept, and movies are good, but the show sucks at executing on any of them. So, kind of like PR Operation Overdrive.
@Marcosatsu4 ай бұрын
Happy birthday Marcosatsu (it’s actually the 19th but I’m planning to be out all day)
@CalmSanity4 ай бұрын
Happy birthday 🎊🎉
@MonsterZeroLITE4 ай бұрын
happy M day
@Kai-td5xs4 ай бұрын
Happy birthday
@aoran934 ай бұрын
Happy birthday 🎉🎉🎉
@eugenestevenkong94304 ай бұрын
Happy birthday! Ayyy we have same birthday!!!
@NaikaVideo4 ай бұрын
Tons of passion here from you Marco. Great video...your number 1 is...suspect but it's all good. I really really REALLY need to see Build...
@Megaken-lw3epАй бұрын
My personal ranking and my reasons. 1. Fourze - My first series and definitely hits all my marks, fun characters, a balanced but fun power set, and a comforting story. 2. Blade - Compelling story with some of the best suit designs and gimmick items. 3. W - The gold standard of Rider story in my personal opinion, I love everything about it. 4. Agito - A more chill series about mystery that draws me in, the lore is something I adore. 5. Gaim - Amazingly well-written and captivating cast, as well as THE best Main Rider character wise. 6. Build - Enjoyed it a lot, some of the best casts in the franchise, as well as final villains. 7. Decade - I know this was a mess in terms of story, but it's a fun mess. 8. OOO - A relaxing setting and the most down to earth protagonist in the franchise, I love Eiji and Ankh so much 9. Ex-Aid - While some of the most out there suits, it makes up for it with a gripping story. 10. Den-O - A series that has an important message and relatable protagonist, and while overused later on, I still love the Taro's. 11. Kuuga - Might get some flack for this placement, but I genuinely like this season, very different from everything after it, as the first Heisei season. 12. Drive - A slow start I admit, but pulls through towards it's run, Chaser's arc is peak though. 13. Kabuto - A fun main Rider, and the best boy Kagami, also an insightful conflict, just a few things that I'm still confused about. 14. Ryuki - A good series, just a few personal pet peeves. 15. Faiz - I'll probably get more flack for this than Kuuga's placement, but I think this series is good, just brought down by some of the edgiest writing in Rider, turned me off multiple times because of how dark it gets. 16. Kiva - This series is actually really meh, all of it was carried by Wataru, music, and theming. 17. Hibiki - This is low because of how sad it's fall of was, which made it worse in my opinion, I liked it until it Kyosuke appeared. 18. Zi-O - Like Decade it's a mess, but this is worse because it messes up the impact of some of it's tributes, not helping with some of the ugliest suit designs for both Rider and Monsters. 19. Ghost - An idea that sounds so good in paper, some of the most lackluster and infuriating execution I've ever seen, so happy everything else about it is good at least. 20. Wizard - This one was personal to me, I have never felt so disappointed and underwhelmed in a season, coming after Fourze and having an interesting concept, and not doing anything of worth with it, this is the series I tend to forget about the most. This was just my personal opinions, everyone else's is different and that's a beautiful thing.
@G2Quiznos0254 ай бұрын
So glad to see the love for Build. It's not only my favorite Kamen Rider season, it's one of my favorite shows of all time. ♥️💙
@BramTheDemon4 ай бұрын
I can't say much on the Rider franchise since I'm relatively new, having only completed Geats, Zero One, and currently finishing up Gotchard while watching Ghost in the side, but out of all the suits I've seen from series I've both watched and haven, Ohma Zi-O is my favorite by far. The gold and black, the shoulder armor, the clock hands that look like wings, so good. And yes, I already know about Ohma and who he is. I'll probably be getting to that one after Ghost.
@MonsterZeroLITE4 ай бұрын
its not like oma is that deep or even a spoiler despite his design and role, they literally cover this in episode 1 alone
@BramTheDemon4 ай бұрын
@@MonsterZeroLITE Yeah, that's one of the complaints I've seen. For as cool as he was in the first episode, he's not that deep or frequent in the story.
@MonsterZeroLITE4 ай бұрын
@@BramTheDemon hes at best a decent villian with a ok premise, i actually think the time jackers are better, but don’t have enough weight to sustain themselves
@BramTheDemon4 ай бұрын
@@MonsterZeroLITE From what I've heard of and seen of the overarching plot, I feel a better story may have been to recycle Decade's plotline of traveling to other rider world, gather ride watches exclusively to fend off an alternate evil variant of himself that has his eyes set on conquering his own universe. In fact, that's what I thought the season would have been about until I heard about the time jackers later on.
@davez83464 ай бұрын
I recently finished Build and man, I really feel Marcos' review. What a good show. Had me crying at the end. "Are you ready?" "Damn right I am."
@justsplash71854 ай бұрын
I started on Ex aid, but truly fell in love with kamen rider due to build. ITS LITERALLY THE NUMBER 1 AND BEST KAMEN RIDER EVERY, I LOVE BUILD SO MUCN AND IM SO GLAD THAT ITS YOUR NUMBER 1 AS WELL
@MonsterZeroLITE3 ай бұрын
build is everyones number 1, its not a hot take and normal to expect it as anyones favorite, its the opposite that is
@Scorbunzx4 ай бұрын
At first i didn’t like kiva that much but it grew on me and it’s in my top 5 rider shows.
Decade is surprisingly higher than I thought it’d be
@FordJohnes4 ай бұрын
A lot of the fondness I personally feel for it comes from particular arcs or moments that really showcase what the show could have been. The core dynamic between its two main characters was very strong early on until randomly one of them gets sidelined for Kaito.
@spoogtastic2 ай бұрын
Gaim is my #1. And im not entirely sure its close. I love W, drive, geats but gaim is just built different. Especially the ending. GOATED.
actually shocked my list isnt too disimilar to yours besides Ryuki, Fourze, and OOO, otherwise i agree with everything, mad respect having ex aid so high, peak
@rodimusprime16224 ай бұрын
happy birthday, glad im not the only one who love amazons. They are best 🙂😊
@guster-animations4 ай бұрын
this video was a wild ride to listen to while driving. when it got to #2 and i realized that hibiki hadn’t showed up yet i nearly sped into another car
@theodorejohnson66454 ай бұрын
i actually love kiva IT's my5th fav rider season of all time full stop heisei reiwa and showa.Also 3rd fav heisei season.My list 5:gaim 4:double 3 kiva 2 geats 1 build
@The_Eclectic_Skeptic4 ай бұрын
Happy birthday! And no way Faiz is 5 😂 Not that I’m complaining
@StarKaiser24 ай бұрын
Wow Double and Den-O didn't crack the top five looking back I assumed those would be high up with how well you praised em
@geeshep48364 ай бұрын
Kuuga, Ex-Aid, Kabuto, Den-o W, OOO, Gaim, Drive, Ryuki, Blade, Decade, Agito, Hibiki (1st Half And Movie), Faiz, Build And Kiva. It's A Damn Shame That We Didn't Get a Ryuki 20th Anniversary Movie.
@e2011ugdia4 ай бұрын
6:58 and all the Armor Times except kuuga and decade on screen are heisei phase 2 and i wish we could have gotten to see armors of more heisei Phase 1 riders aswell as attackrides and formrides for the heisei phase 2 ridercards becuase they're pretty barebones with only the base form, final attackride, secondary rider and final form
@ismaelsyahmi56694 ай бұрын
I enjoy Decade more than Zio that's for sure, but Ryuki and Blade actually good for me. The best one is Build, Ex Aid and OOO.
@maingamer68464 ай бұрын
Would love to see this with all of the Heisei Era Ultraman and Sentai Seasons
@aaroncross687429 күн бұрын
I like the way you talk about Kuuga here then in the actual review. I put it as my number one but that's my list.
@cyberhero55594 ай бұрын
Happy birthday! I just want to say thank you for making these Kamen rider videos! I like how you think each rider season has value and aspects that people like which is something I agree with. Anyways hope you’ll have a good birthday!
@NehemiaMelvern4 ай бұрын
Build is my favourite too, because the story it's feels like Heisei Phase 1, but the form & toys selling like Phase 2. It's like fusion 😅 And there's no character that not important, even the guest cast it's so important for the storyline And because of that, i think Build series is more suitable for the end of Heisei era than Zi-O 🙂
@BoomyShakes3 ай бұрын
Ghost is more like what you get, not what you need. The story might be messy but i love it.
@Donatas-rp5yf4 ай бұрын
This is getting interesting😊
@metalryancluste324 ай бұрын
I have checked out kamen rider agito it was pretty good to me and kamen rider ryuki was also very good too
@gegagedigedagedago20243 ай бұрын
I was literally on the edge of my seat when you were getting to the top of your list & saw hibiki on there since it’s mostly hated
@daneyal71624 ай бұрын
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MARCO! :D
@dr.balance3377Ай бұрын
OH MY GOD I LOVE KAMEN RIDER BUILD; I WOULD DIE FOR KAMEN RIDER BUILD!
@MrMakatoshi4 ай бұрын
Ironically i would switch Agito and Kuga for the same reason. I feel Kuga drags and Agito has more interesting ideas that pay off imo. Faiz is a great guilty pleasure except for Kaixa (i hate that character). Watching Gaim..... I'm sorry but Gen Urobochi is one note for me in terms of story progression, i much prefer Ryuki. Which goes into Ex-Aid, i like it but the story beats bleed into his subsequent series. Build is the best fusion of Toku and Sci-fi I have ever seen. Even watching a second time I got chills knowing what was coming. I like Drive over W. The first part of Drive is what allows the second part to shine, focusing on characters and paving the way for future plot points. Double is slow for me, I find the antagonists to be dull and the main cast to be meh, just not for me. Kabuto is the most okayest series for me. I actually like Ghost, i think people really wanted more dark horror instead of the celebrate life theme. BTW if you ever want to gush about build I would be more than happy to talk, that series is way too good.
@MonsterZeroLITE4 ай бұрын
fyi, Ghost "was" going to be dark, and his debut teaser shows it, full of weird supernatural mystery within Drive, backed by the heavy marketing Toei gave it and being the 45th anni, that is until soccer moms complained the usual "my kids are scared" and they were forced to redo absolutely everything from ground up, i agree ghost is overhated but i still understand the hate
@MrMakatoshi4 ай бұрын
@@MonsterZeroLITE first I have heard about that, I guess I could see that from the promotional material but I haven't seen anything else regarding that. Is there a link or something that isn't the wiki to look up?
@MonsterZeroLITE4 ай бұрын
@@MrMakatoshi i dont have any direct sort of source on hand no but its kinda common knowledge at this point in fandom, pretty sure marco has already covered it in his ghost video
@MrMakatoshi4 ай бұрын
@@MonsterZeroLITE I don't remember that from his video. I just like to confirm things and to say it's common knowledge I think is a bit ridiculous (been in the fandom since 2018). In discussions I have seen this has never cropped up but maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.
@Marcosatsu4 ай бұрын
It didn’t have a direct source so I didn’t mention it.
@36inc4 ай бұрын
Why are so many of my top 5 in your bottom 20 😂😢 poor ryuki that show gets refrenced so much the only one i like more in phase 1 was faiz or kuuga depending how i feel that day XD
@36inc4 ай бұрын
Though blade did bore me. I didnt finish it and my hubby struggled too and he loves rider way more. He did stick with it and said essentially the same thing about it.
@thatman6664 ай бұрын
Jarring because what most of Ryuki did, I find Geats handled it better. Especially the Battle Royale aspect and Suit Design.
@AlexUnder355Ай бұрын
@@36inc Blade gets really good in the next episodes, but the first arc is a slog. I even took a month break from Kamen Rider because of how boring and drawn out the first arc is. But I finished watching it today and I can say it's worth it.
@36incАй бұрын
@AlexUnder355 my boyfriend said the same as he finished it when i dropped it its still my only drop and i still think the suits are the best element, but i got the plot run down cause problems i can forgive have to have something to grasp on too. If i have to wait 20 episodes in to get there ima be enotionally out of it. I can stick to ghost cause i like more than the cool gimmick i like the prince storyline the good guy monsters who flip to takerus side. And it has a lovely gimmick for the average fight. If you have some bumps but there lil history trivias and refrences to stories i can deal with makotos odd 3rd arc XD
@briansanders81224 ай бұрын
One reason not to start with Zi-O is because it's pretty spoiler-heavy.
@thatman6664 ай бұрын
Pretty much any season that uses Rider Anniversary as its main focus, you don't want to start with.
@kenzakiazuma61364 ай бұрын
i see kuuga on top 10. im happy.
@angreydoggo43574 ай бұрын
Saber is one of my favorites. IN the top 5 actually.
@evoltblackhole86774 ай бұрын
Lame
@GOGOAKUMAN4 ай бұрын
Wow, a totally different taste than me! Putting Agito and Blade so low is crazy to me.
@Dragon969Reviews4 ай бұрын
I'd definitely put Ex-Aid at the very very bottom for my list but the rest of the rankings are close enough.
@YOSEMITEVUE-fo9tuАй бұрын
I love kamen rider kuuga
@josephwilliams24064 ай бұрын
Happy belated Marco
@BizarreInterestsProductions4 ай бұрын
Happy birthday. Dammit I thought Dragon Knight would’ve made the list
@g.26584 ай бұрын
"spoiler free" immediately drops a spoiler for Kiva's second half
@Marcosatsu4 ай бұрын
? I gave the synopsis from trailers and Toei’s website
@Strike-hopper4 ай бұрын
Oh nah he ranking bug people now erm now that's a sigma move
@cyberproductions37364 ай бұрын
Dang Marcos like me fr when it comes to build 😅
@UNIWarriorThomas4 ай бұрын
Happy birthday!
@megatron21714 ай бұрын
Happy birthday ! IWAE
@elwinmarak52774 ай бұрын
My list would be 1. Build 2. Den-O 3. W 4. Ex-Aid 5. Ryuki 6. Fourze 7. Faiz 8. Gaim 9. Drive 10. Kiva 11. Zi-O 12. Decade 13. OOO 14. Kabuto 15. Hibiki 16. Ghost 17. Wizard 18. Blade 19. Kuuga 20. Agito
@elwinmarak52774 ай бұрын
The list is based on how much fun I had watching these shows
@MiXVoy4 ай бұрын
Ryuki, the original Squid Game. Den-O, more comedic, logic and charm than Doctor Who. Kabuto, Kronenberg-esque body horror with better disguises than the "V" franchise. Drive, better than the Fast and Furious franchise. Build, a reimagining of DC's FireStorm, even better than the ArrowVerse counterpart, and the 3 rival parties resembling actual political parties. Double/W, Half-boiled Holmes and Watson, but with an imaginary library instead of a mind palace. Ex-Aid, Scrubs meets Johnny Arcade from Video Power. Faiz, it has vampiric gargoyles and it's better than 2003's Underworld franchise. Hibiki, weaponized music battling actual skinwalkers. Kiva, overall a better vampire story than Twilight. Fourze, better teens with attitude than from Angel Grove. Wizard, if the Harry Potter franchise were using rings. Gaim, a better representation of a Samurai epic than Power Rangers Samurai. Decade, better anniversary than how Megaforce portrays. From the use of the cards, weapons and it's cliffhanger ending. Zi-O, a better 20th anniversary than Super MegaForce. From cameos, gain respect to past riders, and the crossover movie had a better plot than whatever the Legendary Battle supposed to be.
@ashtonclarke3713 ай бұрын
Are you still doing the history of kamen rider series? I lowkey wanted to see what you thought about the rest of them lol
Fusion form of certain items - wild rouse card - vanity rouse card - artificial joker rouse card - heisei rider 45 ghost eyecon - mighty brothers XX gashat - cross-z build can - zi-o trinity ridewatch - grand zi-o ridewatch - geiz revive ridewatch - geiz majesty ridewatch - unknown zetsumerisekey - grimoire wonder ride book - boost MKII buckle - X assemble chemy card - gokai christmas ranger key - gokai anchor key - go-on wings ranger key - new generation capsule alpha - new generation capsule beta - kiwami crystal Creatures fused into collectibles - X geats buckle
@quanganhvuofficial98263 ай бұрын
Objects converted into collectibles - kamen rider xross saber card - flame dragon wizard ring - special wizard ring - water dragon wizard ring - blizzard wizard ring - hurricane dragon wizard ring - thunder wizard ring - land dragon wizard ring - gravity wizard ring - eclipse wizard ring - hope wizard ring - kachidoki lockseed - kiwami lockseed - genius fullbottle - omniforce wonder ride book - tategami hyojusenki wonder ride book - superhero senki wonder ride book - legeiel alter ride book - zooous alter ride book - storious alter ride book - el dragon chemy card - tyranno dinomedal - mammoth dinomedal - tricera dinomedal - sabertiger dinomedal - ptera dinomedal - gokai galleon key - clear pteragordon zyudenchi - clear plezuon zyudenchi - shukyoku nin shuriken - ultraman hikari spark doll - ultraman exceed X spark doll - ultraman orb orb origin fusion card - ultraman mebius fusion card - ultraman taro fusion card - ultraman jack fusion card - ultraman zero fusion card - ultraman orb orb origin crystal - ultraman taro-let - tri-squad-let - ultra dual key - jirahs kaiju medal - ultraman belial kaiju medal - golza kaiju medal - melba kaiju medal - super C.O.V. kaiju medal - gan-Q kaiju medal - reicubas kaiju medal - glitter trigger eternity hyper key Creatures converted into collectibles - ride-player card - joker memory - taka core medal - rocket switch - flame wizard ring - orange lockseed - shift speed - touconboost ghost eyecon - aoninger superhero card - beet buster superhero card - kamen rider zolda superhero card - kamen rider den-o superhero card - kyoryu gold superhero card - gokai red superhero card - kyoryu red carnival superhero card - hyper toq 1gou superhero card - akaninger chouzetsu superhero card - kamen rider agito burning form SH card - kamen rider ryuki survive SH card - kamen rider decade CF superhero card - kamen rider ghost MD superhero card - el dragon chemy card - nijigon chemy card - orion kyutama - max ryusoul - dodongo kaiju card - magatanothor kaiju card - kingsaurus II kaiju card - super C.O.V. kaiju card - pris-ma kaiju card - maga-zetton kaiju card - peguila kaiju card - maga-basser kaiju card - maga-grand king kaiju card - maga-jappa kaiju card - maga-pandon kaiju card - hellberus ring - galactron ring - segmeger ring - nightfang ring - gigadelos ring - gorotunder ring - ultraman taiga key holder - ultraman titus key holder - ultraman fuma key holder - jirahs kaiju medal
@brentocsan86574 ай бұрын
Happy Birthday but isn't Kamen Rider Amazon Shoei Era which would mean that Kamen Rider Build is your favorite Heisei Rider
@rodimusprime16224 ай бұрын
amazons are heisei because they air in 2016 and 2017
@brentocsan86574 ай бұрын
@@rodimusprime1622 That was for a second season
@rodimusprime16224 ай бұрын
@@brentocsan8657 huh?
@FanofChowder4 ай бұрын
@@brentocsan8657Amazons is a separate thing, the Original Showa show isn't connected to the Heisei show.
@StarKaiser24 ай бұрын
Wow Blade beat out Ryuki
@kamenriderking64534 ай бұрын
Do one with the Reiwa era, brother.
@evoltblackhole86774 ай бұрын
Whic is darker? Black sun or Amazon? I haven't watched it yet but people did say it's for mature audience
@chip16404 ай бұрын
Good list! Though, Gaim is too high...
@DuMaExpansion3 ай бұрын
Please do a video on the Gao Rangers!
@StarKaiser24 ай бұрын
Where is this build video, build had my favorite balanced Kamen Rider team
@somefin2934 ай бұрын
@Marcosatsu could you link where i could watch kamen rider ryuki and any other ones from the series that are free to watch the official ones ? 5:23
@NearingLostLight4 ай бұрын
5:35 spoiler free my ass
@Marcosatsu4 ай бұрын
Spoiler free
@Kepin1514 ай бұрын
It literally happened on the 1st episode bruh. It's like u get mad cause Marco spoils Takeru's death 💀
@yellowyetionyt3 ай бұрын
anyone know what happened to sentai guy? he hasn't posted in a while
@stevenflores88143 ай бұрын
Curious what do you think of Gai's orbinca from ultraman orb
@theworthams62794 ай бұрын
Where can u watch build
@5spec4 ай бұрын
Happy M Day
@gatinhadepresiva4 ай бұрын
Great list! Why gaim so high tho Why ghost so low tho
@metascrub2854 ай бұрын
Im probably the only one who thought kuuga was boring as. It might of been just me someone starting with reiwa era before going to watch phase 1 hesie but the slice of life drama from juuga is kinda just boring to me.
@Kepin1514 ай бұрын
No way he put Agito below Wizard 💀 No offense though, opinion is opinion.
@derreckjenner9533 ай бұрын
I have a way different opinion on Heisei KR but i'll just summarize it as this with the best and worst for me Agito - Such an incredibly done premise, The mystery behind the Akatsuki was phenomenal the characters are outstanding especially Ryo and Makoto, that's not to say Shouichi wasn't great as he was. The issue is that the ending kinda made me lost a bit for it felt lackluster, not to mention almost every episodes builds upon a greater story. Zi-O - an absolute shit stain of a season with tributes that feel disrespectful to the shows it had portrayed and some of the most awful concepts in KR being the half assed Mirai Riders and how 80% of the characters are absolute morons in the context of the series, not even Woz saved this show and there are good tributes and it is fun when it has zero context, Still its a massive plot holed piece of crap. Another Fav is Ryuki, all i can say is the Rider War aspect was a fresh and amazingly done premise as well with phenomenal characters. The frustrating thing was not advertising all 13 riders in the main series which is something that Dragon Knight did better.
@stardustplasma4 ай бұрын
One year older and you still have bad takes smh
@MunchaBuncha4 ай бұрын
How does he have bad takes?
@stardustplasma4 ай бұрын
@@MunchaBuncha isn't it obvious? they aren't mine 👍
@MunchaBuncha4 ай бұрын
@@stardustplasma ignoring your narcissist, what is your list on the heisei Kamen Rider?
@stardustplasma4 ай бұрын
@@MunchaBuncha my list is the best and only correct list 👍
@MunchaBuncha4 ай бұрын
@@stardustplasma than what is it?
@Strike-hopper4 ай бұрын
Ermmm actually kamen rider G is the best heisei rider your wrong for picking mid as frick amazon
@tokusatsunerd94854 ай бұрын
You have horrible taste when it comes to Kamen Rider. Having the golden shows be on the bottom while the more overrated Phase 2 crap are there except Build.
@Marcosatsu4 ай бұрын
Your aggressiveness over opinions tells more about you than me.
@tokusatsunerd94854 ай бұрын
Oh boohoo, im a sour fan when i am not the one praising overrated shows or trash
@tokusatsunerd94854 ай бұрын
the length of your videos are like sleeping pills
@tokusatsunerd94854 ай бұрын
dont at me
@Marcosatsu4 ай бұрын
@@tokusatsunerd9485 ???
@steffenbauer12223 ай бұрын
Please rank sentai
@TR0VEX.4 ай бұрын
*why he on a horse*
@beyyyblade32184 ай бұрын
First
@julianpaparelli72034 ай бұрын
agito is better than kuuga
@jammY84 ай бұрын
No
@Kepin1514 ай бұрын
Yes
@Doffy2k13 ай бұрын
No
@aaroncross687429 күн бұрын
No! No! No! No!
@vedanthkamath3 ай бұрын
I must say that I love Heisei especially phase 1 and some phase 2, but Reiwa was good until Gotchard, it started degrading