My first big trip since I stopped flying - Stetind SW Face

[@joakimolofsson6581]

Hello Just for the accuracy. All walls of Stetind , have been climbed on multiple routes. I have climbed at least 6different including on the west wall as you did. Your route as my west wall route is just a another variation! The nice crack Callum climbed is just the normal west ridge already climbed 1936, and probably free after Naess West wall climb in -66. Our line was on the left of west wall but also independent at the top (where you followed the normal )with some grade 7R climbing! You should check it out next time. I love Stetind . Your addition looks nice and interesting those 3-4 rpl up to West for top! The problem on these walls is the lack of good documentation. Last year there where two swedes that also reported a new route 800m!?( Even AAC wrongly reported that,when it’s just a new variation/start.) That one is more to the right but was just doing the first 1/3 new then follows Goldfish route or maybe me and Johns variation and in the top probably the Swiss exit ( we climbed that too..). Fantastic mountain

[@paulmitchell5349]

Maybe paint some route names at the base ?

[@matteobecchi1210]

Man, your environmental choices are kind of mind-blowing. You show us that there are no excuses, we are responsible for our own decisions and way of living. Thank you so much.

[@TheBananaLoverorignal]

Some folk cannot afford to be eco anything. It is a collective action problem where the only change that will be effective is at the level of countries. However it's good to see what Dave is doing. But I can't afford an ev for my first car, but without a car i will have to give up climbing on rock, so i'm getting the petrol car.

[@Josh-i7w]

@@TheBananaLoverorignal "Some folk cannot afford to be eco anything." That's very untrue. Environmentally friendly choices are often cheaper, sometimes significantly. For example, modest housing options are usually both significantly cheaper and significantly less resource intensive. Home cooking is significantly cheaper than eating out. Buying used clothing as needed is significantly cheaper than being new clothing as wanted. And so on. You're right that some "green technologies", especially newer ones like EVs or fancy HVAC systems, can be more expensive upfront. But those are more exceptions to the rule, and even in those areas there are other things you can do to reduce your impacts. E.g., for transportation, you could try to carpool more and drive less (substituting some trips with transit, walking or cycling as practical). And of course, not owning a car of any kind of significantly cheaper than owning one. Doing that for a while (if practical) could be one way to save up for an EV. Many options.

[@niallmurphy2163]

CO2 emissions per person in a modern airliner are roughly the equivalent of driving the same distance in a car alone. Planes are surprisingly efficient now. I'm all for climate change action etc. but people limiting their experience of this world by limiting their air travel doesn't really make much sense in the grand scheme of things, especially if they drive to that place anyway. If people want to do these things, fair enough, but travelling from Scotland to Norway in big airplane is nothing to be ashamed of.

[@Josh-i7w]

@@niallmurphy2163 "CO2 emissions per person in a modern airliner are roughly the equivalent of driving the same distance in a car alone." That assumes a person is driving an average ICE car though. Driving emissions quickly become significantly lower if you drive an EV and/or drive with passengers. I agree with what I take to be your broader point to an extent. You don't need to swear off flying completely to significantly reduce your emissions, in the same way you don't need to become a strict vegetarian. But moving in those directions can make a big difference, in both obvious and less obvious ways. E.g., most people aren't going to make multiple long distance road trips per year because of the time and inconvenience. But plenty of people (who can afford to do so) take multiple long distance flights per year because of the convenience.

[@vividbla]

@@TheBananaLoverorignal It is true that some people cannot afford to be eco anything. But many can, and they do have a responsibility to act accordingly. In particular, the wealthiest 10% of the world's personal lifestyle consumption accounts for a full third of all CO2 emissions. So certainly countries must act, but so must wealthy individuals.

[@maximeferre6903]

Dave, you are by far one of the most inspiring climber in my opinion, on many levels !

[@loveroos627]

So happy to see legends like you guys enjoy Norway. There is so much good climbing to be had in Scandinavia. Cheers (skål!) from Sweden!

[@Mike-oz4cv]

It’s wet and cold which makes climbing difficult.

[@lewproffitt]

Absolutely stunning! The golden light and the drone footage really made this so special. Norway has just bumped even further up the list

[@Stu_2112]

Norway, the gift that just keeps giving. Probably my favourite place in the world. I've spent time out there testing and developing EV's in mid-winter.....stunningly beautiful.

[@sarahpemberton4089]

Love it! I admire your patience & positivity in waiting a month for the weather. Looks like great rock.

[@RobJohnson]

Superb - what a stunning place and awesome job of filming whilst climbing.

[@alext2k3]

Absolutely stunning footage

[@dominiclester3232]

Epic, thank you! I find this mountain mesmerising and I can now see from your climb that it’s even harder to summit than I’d guessed; well done both of you! This makes the Devils Tower in Wyoming look small...

[@DarkSkyMedia]

I've always thought Stetind is the perfect example of the kind of mountain you'd draw as a kid, such an amazing piece of rock! That hand crack Calum led near the top looks sublime 👌

[@joakimolofsson6581]

Yes that crack is part of the old original west ridge route. Short 5.10 bu mostly 5.8

[@TheSietch]

This was truly magnificent!

[@GregFeeneyPoker]

Epic video! Just pre-ordered the book. Hope the nighttime repel went smoothly although with your skills, I am sure it was a piece of cake.

[@xXBOBBAFETTXx]

Wow, such an amazing setting !!

[@teresacorti4111]

"very strong winds" definitely a deja vu moment. Looked like an amazing adventure and really cool drone shots now I can visually explain to my parents Vesteggen

[@4_loko_ono]

Dave as always, you are the man! Thanks for everything you share and amount of energy you put into making such high quality content. Your work and attention to detail is definitely noticed and appreciated. You have been a massive motivation to me in climbing and life in general.

[@ayuminor]

This was beautifully shot, produced and paced *chef's kiss*

[@lukesonnenburg5006]

Thanks!

[@climbermacleod]

Thank you!

[@linksgrunversifft4270]

I drove by Stetind on my way to Lofoten Islands, it’s absolutely massive! Wanted to climb it, but my wife was pregnant, so we only did a few 3-5 pitch routes😅

[@AndyOB]

Stunning footage.What a superb looking mountain.😎👍

[@thomashuber9212]

That’s what a I call a real ecopoint fa ;) Excellent route, hope to be going to climb in Norway soon. Greetings from Germany!

[@jonno67]

The first time I saw Callum climb I was struggling up Kubla Khan in the quarries. This really young kid seemed to be running up and down everything to my right. It was so impressive to see such a young lad moving so beautifully on such bold and hard routes 🙂

[@yesmanyannick]

We were on Stetind a few days before you arrived! Unfortunately it was too wet for climbing so we took the normal way :/ We’ll definitely come back for that one! :D

[@cr4zpokee]

Awesome to have you visit Norway, Dave! I'm a huge fan and I hope you enjoyed your stay :)

[@stevenvandijck2814]

I think we had 40 consecutive days without rain in the summer in North Norway, but quite a strange choice of you to come in Autumn instead of July.

[@climbermacleod]

I had shit to do at home in July.

[@hvitblikkdventure-photogra4644]

God job. Welcome back

[@martincholland]

I admire you for so much, but nothing compares to how quietly you have committed yourself to reducing your impact on the planet, and the way you are creating space for others to do the same by quietly talking about it. All of us can follow your lead in our own lives, and those of us working more publicly can learn from your approach to communication. Big love!

[@mikaelwerner1]

Wonderful! Now when you know the way, why not pop over to the swedish side of the border and make a first ascent on Skierfe in Sarek? Would love to see that.

[@robertcreer8826]

Such an amazing location

[@middle-agedclimber]

Stunning, absolutely stunning.

[@stretch8390]

You trad climbers are something else, the guts to take on the weather and a wall of potential. Also power to you for your environmental decisions.

[@thenorseman2804]

I hope you come back to Norway, you are the kind of people we want to come visit us here in the North! Respect to you guys!

[@Jaded-Wanderer]

Wow, what a place, what a route !

[@kevinw1129]

The winter (ice) climbing in Norway (Senja) is even better Dave.

[@paulgaras2606]

I strongly support the no fly approach. Maybe one day there will be a non destructive way for an American to visit Norway. Until then, thanks for letting us live vicariously through you!

[@olavgrttveit9560]

If you have more time than money, a sailboat will work ;)

[@robbieallen2923]

Whilst avoiding flying is clearly beneficial from a carbon footprint perspective, it's insignificant on the global stage. Aircraft make up ~2% of warming gases. If all flights stopped today, it would have almost no impact on climate change. Individual carbon footprint is just propaganda. Related, the absolute worst thing you can do from an emissions perspective is get rid of your perfectly functioning car for a new electric car.

[@Mike-oz4cv]

Per kilometer and passenger the CO2 emissions of planes are pretty comparable to cars. Considering how much CO2 emissions and resource usage producing a car causes, it can actually be *better* to fly than to buy and drive a car. Electric cars are better, but it’s sad to see how big and heavy many electric cars are, offsetting many of the benefits.

[@VikashKumar-ok6gi]

@robbieallen2923 Your comment about buying a new EV is not really true. After about 3 years of driving, the EV makes up for the emissions related to its production by offsetting the emissions that you would have otherwise emitted by driving your perfectly functioning gas car. These numbers are based off of the US grid which is considerably dirtier than most European grids. This video goes into more detail kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmOsfHaao9-fa80si=U0KOMklrOsFX3aUa

[@robbieallen2923]

@@VikashKumar-ok6gi That's fair enough, a good video. You're right, it's better than I thought. However, just some thoughts: a) Using Tesla's data for combustion cars is questionable because of the natural bias there. Using their electric data is fair, and I liked his penalty. b) Those are rather pessimistic mpg values for European cars. c) Second-hand electric cars sell less than second-hand combustion cars, which means higher new car manufacturing demand. However, European, and particularly the UK grid, is much cleaner than the US, so that will trade favourably for electric cars. I think for now, it's largely a toss-up. I'm not getting a new electric car to save emissions 7-10 years down the line. With future EV development, EV's will become much more favourable, however.

[@plastikmaiden]

Awesome stuff!

[@johnm9709]

Brilliant Mr MacLeod. Your environmental decisions are very commendable. I wrestle with the same dilemas and stopped flying 14 years ago. I am not deluded enough to think my own actions make any difference but if thousands of us or millions in the west did something it all helps and all the more so if they have influence as you do. I enjoy a lot of mountain bike and climbing KZbin stuff but the amount of flying involved is complete madness.

[@SWISSPOWERJET]

because of you i ve got all climbing clothes of Mountain Equipment - thanks alot

[@Elwood-wh6sv]

MacLeod is a fucking bad ass and an amazing human. Truly inspirational.

[@torgrimmy]

Absolutly brilliant!🤩

[@jonny1903]

Great stuff Dave

[@BlueOnRS]

I admire your commitment to not fly. I rarely fly, but struggle with our small personal influence vs. 'real' but lagging country-level impact. I'm unhappy about driving a petrol car, and really hope to afford an EV soon - looking forward to hear your experience of using an EV as an outdoor enthusiast and someone who takes our environment seriously. Also, amazing views at the top after a solid climb!

[@AlexeiDrummond]

I stopped flying for a while for the same reason. I then planted trees instead to offset my flights. But it is an impressive commitment to not fly for more than 10 years! I admire it, as with so much that you do.

[@christopherwells4768]

Line dancing...brilliant! 🤠

[@thom-novi]

What a beautiful route.

[@sueedenjin]

Looks like it could soon become a classic!

[@thewildcroft]

Really good vid Dave, what a mountain! Nice Tesla too, look forward to your thoughts on EVs.

[@theoutsider6191]

What a view at the end, now off to Maccas for some paty diet 🙂

[@climbermacleod]

Indeed!

[@MarcoClimbsClassics]

What a beautiful mountain

[@ZoniacMan]

Damn, thats around my neck of the woods :D

[@maxwhiteley7667]

Epic. Coincidently I just listened to you on careless talk discussing not flying an whether there's a responsibilty to share that choice on social media

[@finnmillard6564]

I'd be interested in listening to that. What episode number is that?

[@slurm-n-burger2292]

@@finnmillard6564 E28, I believe.

[@michelemaio8399]

Dave you are a great human being. No doubt about it. You are doing great in this strange experience called life.

[@kallebackeus1777]

Great effort and what looks like a great route up a beautiful mountain. But why choose to grade it with a UK grade rather than the local grading system?

[@kenjifukuda9997]

much respect for your commitment to not fly! The route also looked gorgeous!

[@paulmitchell5349]

Tremendous fun.

[@WMD116]

Pretty cool that two climbers and a drone can produce footage in a day that used to require a whole helicopter crew.

[@MichalPuncochar]

When you bailed on the first attempt, did you leave behind any gear? I guess you went without bolts, also without pitons? Amazing scenery and mountain

[@climbermacleod]

Yes to abseil down you need to leave gear behind, but can pick it up on the next attempt.

[@TheRunescape09595]

Beautiful !

[@heighRick]

Stoked for you to get back to Norway. Inspirational. Thanks for a great video, helps a lot!

[@NeilStrongarms]

Very cool video! Inspiring to see beautiful climbing on unknown terrain. When you bail on a new trad route like that, do you leave behind gear? Did you go back and retrieve it?

[@climbermacleod]

Yes. In the second half of the video, we had another try and obviously retrieved our anchors from the first try.

[@Vic626-of1qh]

The no-fly approach is common sense. I think being open about it is the right choice as well. Thanks.

[@IagreeY3pp]

Hope you make vid in advance if you drop by the bergen area :D

[@Situbusit]

Total respect for the non-flying approach! How do you square this up with your red meat and dairy consumption? I think I've read that cutting out meat and dairy is the most effective strategy for individuals to reduce their climate footprint?

[@climbermacleod]

It squares, since it’s incorrect. These calculations are derived from global average figures which are not even close to accurate in the part of the world I live in.

[@angusmclellan3506]

How do you get down? Rap in the dark to bolt anchors? I’d love to know.

[@climbermacleod]

No bolts here. Scramble and walk off the back ridge.

[@JustmeQuinn]

Assuming most viewers of Dave are climbers, it blows my mind that you can be a climber and not also be an environmentalist. Obviously driving an EV has some environmental impacts, duh. But flying has huge impacts, especially with the amount of flying most pro climbers do. The important is to do what Dave is doing - consciously choosing to reduce his impact as much as he can. Short of living homeless in the woods, that's all we can really do.

[@jonny1903]

You’d be surprised some climbers are climate change deniers so to speak or would fly from London to Glasgow instead of getting the train back and forth etc

[@Sepp2009]

and how did you get down? sun already setting..

[@user1756]

Same question. Did you sleep up there?

[@rolfnilsen6385]

It is arctic Norway, and probably during summer judging by the leaves on the trees. It does not get dark then. The midnight sun is a real thing :-)

[@climbermacleod]

I walked down, just needing the headtorch for the last hour.

[@Sepp2009]

@@climbermacleod oh alright, just didn't look like there was a path leading down that rock pillar

[@WorldOnWheels666]

How did u rappel without leaving too much gear behind?

[@joshgrunsell8371]

Are the state of the cobalt mines used to make batteries for the EV’s much better for the environment?

[@souslesbombes]

We need more role models like Dave that choose not to fly planes and show us we can still live a full meaningful life without this. We are bombarded by influencers, and our own friends, sharing pics from around the world. Sometimes the FOMO is big. Having people we look up to practicing critical thinking and living by it, makes me try to be a better person.

[@ercle88]

It is very admirable! I would be interested to see the numbers behind the impact though, since driving only seems perhaps marginally better than flying (except when the car is full of passengers). Even when using an EV, a sizable portion of UK electricity still derives from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, this sector remains frustratingly opaque, and relies on certificates (making determining the true source of our energy challenging). Coach and train are undeniably great options, but within the UK are sadly unreliable. It is great to see the subject getting discussed and addressed however.

[@climbermacleod]

I buy 100% renewable electricity. As you say, you have to be a bit choosy with provider to make sure you know what you get. I would disagree with your comment on bus/train though. That may be true in some parts of the UK, but to generalise may be going too far. I got my driving license when I was 28 and before that spent fifteen years travelling all over Scotland climbing on buses and trains and reliability was no issue.

[@ercle88]

@@climbermacleod I live in the south east, and put off buying a car until becoming a father in my early 30s made it essential, and I made do with public transport before this. This choice meant I needed to limit my options of where to live and work around public transport, and my personal quality of life has notably improved since I started driving (driving has enabled me to pursue a better career, improved my work life balance, and allows me better access to hobbies such as getting to the climbing wall). It's really unfortunate, but I just couldn't sustain anywhere near the same quality of life without my car. My experience has been, despite my best efforts, that public transport is sadly just unable to meet my needs where I live. I'm sure you habe already researched this and are aware, but for anyone else interested in sourcing renewable electricity at home, be mindful the majority of advertised 100% renewable energy companies use REGO certificates, meaning they supply the same fuel as everyone else but buy certificates to offset their carbon footprint. The majority of this energy will be sourced from fossil fuels, and the scheme is particularly opaque, and heavily criticized for green washing (as it doesn't lead to a reduction in carbon emissions). Hopefully regulation will catch up in this area, but until it does, many 100% renewable plans are available - but the majority might not be what you think you are buying. I won't name any specific companies, but thankfully one did publicly criticise these certificates in 2023 and no longer uses them.

[@weekendbikingwarrior360]

how did you film that!!! amazing. ( drone?)

[@SWISSPOWERJET]

wow another very cool movie of you. Dave i love your climbing and movies thanks. i wanna tell you as well - honest - only positive feedback in an other case i have had the same look as you with my less hair but now i make myself bold - and i fell much more better with it i had e only positiv feedbacks - i think that would be something for you as well :-)) here my first time bolded at 11:30 :-)) Watch Ice Climbing Adventure in Live Action - Multipitch and Tips

[@stephen8468]

Would have made for a good base jump back down 3,2,1 see ya

[@climbermacleod]

My feet would have loved that. But I have a young daughter and some limits to risk, so I’ll just take the path.

[@pauljepson1249]

Already clocked up your fair share of air miles on Rhapsody

[@satanaz]

super cool

[@fastasasloth]

Presume you stopped off enroute to give silence a go? :)

[@vnderrr]

🧡

[@lowskillcamper]

Arguably not owning a car but flying a couple of times a year is by far environmentally friendlier.

[@nicktaylor1902]

Uphill argument

[@jonwatson6138]

It’s such a minefield when you post such a good film of a new route on a stunning mountain but link it to climate…….i would be interested to understand how this committed climate pledge could be widened to include your animal protein based nutrition lifestyle and whether you’ve done the sums on that impact as well? I’m genuinely interested and not usually a comments type of person!

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

I'm afraid that Dave has taken the red pill on diet and health, but keeps the blue pill for climate. Life goes on.

[@aalove2010]

Check out Dave’s ‘I ate McDonalds patties for one month’ video starting at 19:26. You can also listen to episode 28 of the Careless Talk podcast, or read his series of detailed IG posts starting Nov 19, 2022 on the topic. Dave has addressed this extensively.

[@climbermacleod]

Yes of course I look at all aspects of my impact. Unlike flying using fossil powered planes, eating animal protein can easily be done with no climate impact. Flow and stock climate gases are not the same.

[@stretch8390]

I don't think it's a minefield at all - don't make perfection the enemy of progress.

[@jonwatson6138]

@@aalove2010 Thanks, I’ll check those out 👍🏽

[@eia14]

The only sad part about the no-fly choice is that we'll never get to see you climb in other continents 😅

[@saulsarry]

Or you could watch "the hardest line"

[@MSchon-qf3fl]

Where do you think the electricity for your car comes from? Hint: it’s not wind or solar.

[@climbermacleod]

It is.

[@Chris-bg8mk]

That ferryboat probably has a massive carbon footprint...

[@billking8843]

Braw!

[@davecowan6430]

While not flying is to be commended, what did it actually save emissions wise this trip? The plane you could have flown on still flew and a 2.5 tonne car was driven for a lot of miles. This isn't meant as a criticism just an observation, where is the line drawn when you are going to do the trip anyway?

[@davecowan6430]

P.s the location looks stunning.

[@JoachimMilan1]

Plus the ferry from Denmark (I suppose)?

[@paulgaras2606]

The thing about the co2 emissions of electric vehicles is that since the vast majority of their emissions is in production, the more you drive them over their lifetime the lower your net emissions per mile actually is. This one trip may have been no net environmental benefit, but the choice to stop flying and save up for an EV is a huge net win for the planet. I’ll bet this particular trip only saved about 50 grams of co2 per mile (depending on how you figure it) but it’s a long game.

[@davecowan6430]

@@paulgaras2606 saved 50g per mile compared to what? The other option was flying in a plane that flew anyway so in effect you have created emissions by not flying. There are many ways to skin a cat and apart from not going at all I am not sure what the best way would be.

[@JoachimMilan1]

@@davecowan6430 Planes only fly if people wanna fly, so the fair calculation is to look at the emission of the flight and divide it by number of passengers? I for one rarely get on planes with loads of empty seats...

[@alexdietz9765]

Anyone else think Dave actually has a phobia of flying?

[@stuartmyles4499]

A great looking route, however the whole EV thing….I agree they might stop the smog in cities but the overall process to produce them is still pretty detrimental to the world. Not to mention the recycling process, which is still in the pioneering stage. At least with older cars we export them to help developing countries. Can’t imagine there is a rapid charge in rural Africa! You’d be better off with a push bike and the odd flight.

[@climbermacleod]

Well, I'm going to use a car, so it is far lower impact than constant mining of fossils through the life of a petrol car.

[@stuartmyles4499]

@@climbermacleod and the mining for lithium and coal to produce electricity? Not to mention all the extra gold, copper and other materials needed for the electrical infrastructure of an EV car. There is definitely pros and cons to each aspect. As an avid petrol head (and lover of Tesla and what they do) I appreciate both side of the argument. I don’t think it’s as clean cut as EV’s are the way forward. I have a 2018 diesel pick up truck and it’ll still be going strong long after 2 maybe even 3 Tesla’s have come to the end of their lithium battery shelf life. Please don’t take this as an attack; I’ve got an immense amount of respect for you as a climber.

[@climbermacleod]

@@stuartmyles4499 I buy renewable electricity to charge the car. The point is, the mining is all in the initial manufacture with EVs, whereas the mining of fossils is constant with ICE throughout its life. So yes, EVs are the way forward.

[@stuartmyles4499]

@@climbermacleod It would be great if the entire infrastructure was based on renewable energy. And everyone did what you do; however they don’t. So the world will continue to suffer as a consequence; in relatively equal measures, as far as I can tell. So I really don’t believe they are the absolute solution. Hydrogen on the other hand! When that technology is advanced we will equally be left stumped and somewhat guilty. Appreciate your time and insight, it’s always good to learn something new.

[@climbermacleod]

@@stuartmyles4499 The entire infrastructure soon will be based on renewable energy. It's a transition - there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater because it isn't perfect from day 1. Even if not everyone does everything perfectly just now, that is no justification for just sitting back and doing nothing. Rather the opposite.

[@stigfloberghagenphotography]

Fantastic film but nothing for me 😲👍

[@dannygrout92]

Money saved up from not flying - then bought Tesla. How many planes were you planning to take Dave 😂😂

[@climbermacleod]

What do you think I paid for my Tesla?!

[@dannygrout92]

@@climbermacleod new, enough to make a person cry. Second hand in the region of £16-25K . So low end around the cost of 40 flights e.g Glasgow to Oslo ?

[@WhiterockFTP]

It was an obvious joke. Flying is dirt cheap - Teslas are still… well. not. :D

[@climbermacleod]

@@dannygrout92 Glasgow-Oslo isn't much of a trip!

[@rellify3]

Rad

[@edcunningham5562]

Instead of not flying why not just donate to offset your emissions... its very cheap you can even offset it 10x quite easily

[@aalove2010]

Offsetting fossil carbon with carbon in the biosphere isn’t a long term solution. Better to not fly if you’re concerned about climate impacts.

[@climbermacleod]

Unfortunately offsetting doesn’t work for sustainability.

[@edcunningham5562]

@@climbermacleod neither does 1 man deciding to not fly

[@climbermacleod]

@@edcunningham5562 If I shared that view, I would not have bothered mentioning it.

[@sirhenrystalwart8303]

Honestly man, this not flying thing is just silly.

[@sonisphere098]

I would be interested in seeing the maths if buying a new car and driving yourself was actually more environmentally sustainable than flying 🤔

[@aalove2010]

Generally yes, especially when you charge using electricity from renewable sources that are relatively plentiful in places like Norway and Scotland. Here's some data to consider: IPCC 6th Assessment Report, Chapter 10, figure 10.4 puts the median lifecycle carbon intensity of a battery electric vehicle (BEV) charged with renewable sources at 87 g CO2-eq per vehicle kilometer. The UK's 2023 GHG reporting conversion factors for short-haul economy class flights are 182 g CO2-eq per km (if you include indirect effects of non-CO2 emissions) and 108 g CO2-eq per km (without indirect effects).

[@climbermacleod]

It wasn't a new car, and yes, driving a used EV for the next however many years of its life instead of a petrol car and planes is more sustainable.

[@jimmarshall9945]

Dave please stick to climbing….you’re just virtue signalling. I take it the ferry was electric. Have you done any research on how much rare metals are being mined. Net zero net con. Driving a Tesla sure isn’t saving the planet.

[@LordFunzo]

I respect your commitment limit your hypocrisy regarding the environment. The narrative around CO2 emissions is questionable to say the least. Wind farms destroying habitats, marine and bird life, EV's weight, torque, human right's around Cobalt extraction and, if sold of the CO2 narrative, the carbon cost of production. Reduced C02 emissions is used to justify everything. Even if you accept all of the arguments around C02, the carbon cost of the infrastructure, the cost of storage (not currently even possible), transmission and generation is not factored, nor is redundancy which must be in place. Just because you charged your EV does not mean you have no C02 emissions regardless of the sunk carbon cost of the production of the vehicle and the particulates from tires and breaks with increased weight and torque should be considered. The real 'problem' is volume, when the middle class of China and India rise and expect the same fantastic experiences the affluent west has been so effectively marketed over the last 50 years, people will start to get an idea of just how many people there are in the world. Tourist spots are already becoming less authentic and more like Thorpe Park and that's with a comparatively light sprinkling of people. Every country worth visiting is going to have to drum up a policy to severely restrict tourism.

[@climbermacleod]

Thanks for the comment. I'd love for you to make some sound arguments for using a petrol car instead of an EV. I'm hopeful that a clear discussion will be beneficial. I don't think anyone is saying there are no emissions or impact in production, just that they are far smaller than for petrol cars that require continuous mining and extraction of polluting fossils every time you want to fill up (with it's own human rights concerns). It's the comparative impact that I am looking at, and it is far smaller with EVs than fossils. I don't really understand your comment about brakes. In an EV you rarely use brakes! Also don't understand your comment about energy storage not being possible. The car is literally an energy storage device on wheels.

[@LordFunzo]

​@@climbermacleod The general point I think is that we have been made to think that there is a right and wrong answer when both must be weighed in all of their grand complexity, I have seen you do this beyond anybody else's analysis when it comes to diet for example. There are such great financial incentives to simplify and mass market, when a narrative is found which resonates, so much focus is placed upon it that the rest is forgotten. A good analogy of this is the focus on carbs and the ignorance of fat when the food pyramid and recommended daily intakes were founded. I guess the frustration is really felt when people with genuine concern wanting to do the right thing don't really stand a chance because certain topics are so complex and so much resource have been channeled into relatively narrow avenues. It might be that those avenues were beneficial at the time they were explored but now it's just a cost-effective exercice at the expense of a wider view which will eventually lead to some perhaps disproportionate backlash, perhaps total denial. As far as I can tell (and I am no expert) concerning energy production, nuclear, geothermal and hydro are it, it's done, mission accomplished, good job guys, all the energy we could ever need right there. The trouble with that is there is a hell of a lot of money to be made in oil, gas and coal and a hell of a lot in building green infrastructure and doing the former (+ some marketing and nice narrative) neatly moves you towards the latter. To caveat these statements and to segway on to batteries, there is a problem of storage. I am trying to think of a good way of putting it..... you put power in a battery whereas with oil, it's already there. Just in this, there is an explosion of considerations: how was the battery created? how long will it last? how much energy can it store? how was the power put into it generated? how was it transmitted? The easiest point to consider is that a power station is a pretty big unit with a lot of infrastructure around it whereas a wind turbine for example is a relatively tiny unit with a relatively large amount of infrastructure around it especially when power output is considered. The same questions can be asked again: How much energy? how long will it last? How was it created? How is it maintained? How is it disposed of? What is the environmental impact of all of this? How many birds did it kill? Obviously the same questions are levied against the traditional power plant, the kicker is that we need reliable energy and that is simply impossible with wind and solar which means you always need both if you go down that route but if that were the case, then why bother? Just take the less impactful over the more. Just to reiterate the point on batteries. Are they recyclable? Are we recycling them? I know that some batteries are more than others, it's hard to find information for the layman. If they are not 100% recyclable then green energy is not 100% green for all intents and purposes except direct usage of that power like grinding flour at a wind mill. The breaks thing is based on some articles about particulates I saw where it turns out that break and tire dust are bad. EV's are ~30% heavier than regular vehicles and have more torque and therefor would logically contribute more although they are obviously more modern so maybe not. The carbon cost of producing an EV is also much greater, one of the car manufactures published a paper at one point stating the number of miles you would need to drive to offset this and it was a lot. They did a few calculations based on how 'green' the energy of the economy that generated the power was and I don't really trust those figures. Sorry I am just ranting now really, I just wanted to state that C02 is 0.04% of the atmosphere and the world seems to be greening as it increases. We are still technically coming out of an ice-age so temperature increase is kind of par for the course. I love the natural world and feel the responsibility to protect it but I don't want to let that good intention be taken advantage of, I think that is true of anyone who is well enough fed and sheltered and I think it's being taken advantage of.

[@climbermacleod]

It's not that complex. No one is saying renewable energy is already perfect with no opportunities to optimise further in future. Merely that their adoption where possible is obviously better than burning more fossils. It's not complex to say an article that says 'EVs bad because of brake dust' is spurious, since you use region to brake, not a brake pad. It's not complex to say that a fleet of EVs and home batteries, programmed to change when renewables over produce and not when the wind stops works just fine. Your finishing paragraph is irrelevant. Scientific work clearly shows that dumping huge amounts of fossil carbon in the atmosphere is not good for plants, or us. The tree is not that happy it's a tiny bit greener when it's being washed away in a flood or burned in the wild fire. It isn't important what percentage CO2 is in the atmosphere. It's important what that means for the climate.

[@LordFunzo]

@@climbermacleod I accept that in theory, usage of renewable energy is preferable to fossil fuels but it's stupidly complex the moment you start to think of the necessary infrastructure and corresponding supply chains. What I want to point out is that, as you know, just because you have an EV, does not mean the electricity in it is not generated from fossil fuels. The questions you should be asking yourself are: What is the environmental impact of a renewable energy grid? Is it even possible to run the country off of wind and solar? If it is not possible, we should not even be trying frankly because they are superfluous and do tremendous environmental damage. Is this statement incorrect? If we can never transition away from power stations then we should transition to using only nuclear power stations which have negligible carbon emissions. You would think that in this age of moral superiority and snobbery that we would have eliminated human suffering from our journey to net zero but here is how the Cobalt for our batteries are mined: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fp7Ul2OCapelepo The point of air born particulates in relation to cars is particularly important in cities where it is assumed that EV's are best but it's not as clear cut as it seemed (although I still think they are better). In the countryside, air quality is not a problem. I do not know how relevant my last paragraph is and nobody does. I accept that releasing carbon is having some effect, I am just not convinced it's particularly negative, the earth has been much warmer than it is today. We could obviously never hope (should we even want?) to stop climate change but I see the virtue in trying to have as little impact as possible. Tree's and plants are actually happier, that's why you are supposed to talk to your house plant. Wild fires used to rage unabated, the coal under our feet is a testament to that. The fact that mankind controls them to some extent is a new phenomenon. We flood the land for hydro electric and we plaster the soil for our roads and cities. If exponential rises in temperature were a thing, the earth would be a fireball already. Here is a good clip from RFK Jr. and Jordan Peterson's interview kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHzRmnqcq7SYhsUsi=vqoMMIXfQeD2LHNH&t=1530 it's well worth watching. I realise I am being lied to or the truth is being obscured, I am therefore remaining sceptical. The fact is, China is building power plants at a similar rate that churches are spontaneously combusting in France. I think the green agenda might be a bit of a distraction.

[@maybenj25]

Electeic vehicle considerations... mining the precious metals and diaposal of the materials are both massively damaging. Producing the power to charge the batteries often comes from dirty sources and is just as harmful as refined fules. These are items rarely mentioned. Anyhoo... rad video as always!

[@KelpandFern]

BEVs are not perfect but a drastic improvement over ICE vehicles. That doesn't even account for the current BEVs coming to market with sodium-ion batteries which are another huge step forwards in terms of environmental impact. You can choose a more eco-friendly energy provider here in the UK and know exactly what is powering your home and charging your car, or even better yet, like the many people here, install solar and charge from that.

[@coolguyASDQWEFEWFADSFAS]

Even if electric vehicles are powered 100% from fossil fuels in the power plant they still produce fewer emissions compared to gasoline cars due to the high efficiency of the electric motors, furthermore renewable electricity generation is now equivalent to approximately 97% of Scotland’s gross electricity consumption.

[@jamesclark6257]

​@@coolguyASDQWEFEWFADSFASthat's because Scotland cut down 14 million trees to make room to build wind farms.

[@maybenj25]

@@KelpandFern Ive been reading about the sodium batteries. Fingers crossed. Seems to be very promising w higher capacity, better charge rates, lighter overall weight and what’s best is the sustainability of it. At least there’s hope for it. Solar seems to be the most widely accessible alternative power source but even that has major drawbacks. The production of the panels in China is grim. Didn’t prevent us from installing but I guess it’s all about what you can do with what you have access to. Cheers and all the best.

[@maybenj25]

@@coolguyASDQWEFEWFADSFAS that’s quite impressive. Cool to hear good things are being done.

[@TadeoPontecorvo]

Virtue signaling at its finest

[@johnjordansailing]

There's nothing "green" about cutting CO2; it's what plants breath.

[@brettmeikle]

Aw, here we go. A scientist and his opinion. I'd like to read your paper on the subject.

[@climbermacleod]

Plants are doing just fine on the carbon circulating in the biosphere. Mining additional fossil carbon is not necessary, or beneficial.

[@bryced7126]

first

[@misia1291]

Dear Dave i thought you are sane person but the stress you put on the climate issue makes me think i was wrong. Nevertheless I wish you luck

[@brettmeikle]

What the hell has sanity to do with the climate emergency?