My heart cannot ACCEPT what my mind REJECTS - Dan Barker

Today I spoke with Dan Barker, who grew up in a Christian home, got very involved in missions, and became a pastor for many years, but ultimately deconverted as the truth claims of Christianity fell apart.
We touched on many topics, including:
• Growing up feeling meaning and purpose through god and the Gospel.
• Feeling comfort and pride as he thought he was growing up growing up in the "right" religion and denomination with the "right interpretation" of the Bible.
• At age 15, accepting a call to ministry, leading to him focus on evangelism, missions, itinerant preaching and singing, and being a pastor.
• Realizing that there are many kinds of Christians with many divergent interpretations of the Bible, including the idea that some characters may have been allegorical.
• Needing to make the active choice to reject the path of fear and to choose the path of open inquiry and integrity.
• Realizing, as part of the deconversion process, that we are grieving the loss of things that we never actually had, like an afterlife and a heavenly father.
• Learning to radically change our perspective through the process of "contraduction."
• The importance of being involved in political and social change to help our country and world move past mythology-based worldviews and to support the separation of church and state.
Many thanks to Dan for sharing his story and for all he has been doing for the community for many years!
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The video of when Dan and Annie met on Oprah:
• Dan Barker and Annie L...
Dan's Amazon page:
www.amazon.com/stores/author/...
Freedom From Religion Foundation
ffrf.org/
FFRF's KZbin channel:
/ @ffrforg
The Clergy Project
clergyproject.org/
Godless Gospel KZbin videos
/ @ffrforg
The Freethought Caucus
huffman.house.gov/freethought...
_________________________________________
Check out the other projects I'm working on and find other ways to connect with me:
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Tim may be reached on FB (preferred) at: harmonictim
Or by email at: [e-mail]
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Thanks!
--Tim
_________________________________________
Ending music by Kazuya / Eyal Raz, "Friends"
artlist.io/royalty-free-music...
• Friends
_________________________________________
If you are facing emotional distress, please call 911 or the National Suicide Hotline
1-800-273-8255.

[@BeccaYoley]

Oh my non-existent God, you got Dan Barker! He's one of my very favorite Atheists! Can't wait to listen to this😀

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

thank the god I don't believe in.

[@merbst]

I say: Oh Their God!

[@AveriesMiranda]

I love him

[@tinyshepherdess7710]

Yeah that was my first thought - wow, Tim, you've hit the big time!

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

OMNEG! 😂

[@zach2980]

“Any system that’s based on threats of violence is morally bankrupt.” My most used quote. Dan is awesome!

[@radosawszmid7822]

Dan Barker! WoW! The man you wouldn't want to sit next to on the bus when he was a Christian😀

[@DrPaoloR]

OMG. Yes! One of his funny lines that also stood out to me. So grateful for this interview. 😊

[@dagg310]

why would u want to sit next to any christian ? lol

[@DrPaoloR]

Top of my must-watch interviews. The first time I heard Dan speak, I felt that someone really understood the nuanced complexities of working our way out of unfounded indoctrination. From there, countless other stories by people from all over the world proved that I was not alone. Thank you for hosting this remarkably honest and decent man. I’m sure you will get a ton of views.

[@karlu8553]

Dan telling his deconversion story at an atheist convention in Australia is one of my favorite faith deconstruction videos still to this day. As Dawkins said about him - such an eloquent testimony of what it's like to be deluded and all the way in....and then to find your way out. I so related to his journey through different stages as well, letting go of more and more while trying to hold onto some imagined core

[@amygrowls]

Gosh! Dan Barker is like my atheist hero lol this is incredible. Ok, settling in…

[@agcidentallyagnostic1247]

DAN BARKER!! So excited to hear this!!

[@DrPaoloR]

I loved the question about peace. I used to value the promise of peace that passes all understanding until I discovered the peace that comes from understanding.

[@rebeccaringler1265]

Like if love is our highest calling, why all the indoctrination and belief systems, except for control of the masses. I have learned to trust no one. Only watch.

[@DrPaoloR]

I just love his humble honesty. Feels like sitting around a table listening to friends share from the heart. So relatable.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

"So nice being an Atheist, I don't have to hate anymore."

[@DarqueSyde66]

“You don’t have to hate anymore.” That is DEEP! Thank god for Dan!!! 😂😂😂 This was GREAT!!! Thank you for all that you BOTH DO!!!

[@jamesjon1500]

I was listening at work absent-minded and my brain kept saying that voice sounds familiar until boom Dan Barker!

[@MissOne]

same 😂

[@ShAySlIm130]

Believers say hell isn't the motivator, yet whenever a non believer chastises the religion or the book, the go to response from them always involves the threat of Hell.

[@lepidoptera9337]

Absolutely nothing stops the Pope from taking Revelation out of the bible. It barely made it in, anyway. ;-)

[@fogsmart]

I deconverted but unlike the vast majority of religious apostates I’m not an atheist. It’s the BibleGod that was the problem, not the concept of a transcendent entity that might be a causal agent. My other issue with my faith was my loss of autonomy and the spiritual hubris that intransigently held certainty plays with our mental faculties. I rate the existence of a god and the possibility of Jesus being Truth as extremely low on a probability scale. Therefore I call myself somewhat of an agnostic. And the best part of my new found self-agency is I couldn’t give a hoot what anyone else thinks.

[@Jimyblues]

Same - things have happened in my life that were scientifically impossible- there is a mystery that neither organized religion or atheism fully explains .

[@FoursWithin]

​ @@Jimyblues Technically atheism doesn't explain anything except an individuals response to a single question.

[@Matira269]

I love this interview. Dan Barker is fascinating. His book. "Contraduction" sounds like a must read for me!. The out of the box thinking will go a long way in disrupting the matrix of assumptions that we live within and take as truth. Tim, your guests are getting more and more exciting with each passing episode. Thank you for two wonderful and enlightening hours!

[@Akindmind-oe7ol]

Wow! I’m feeling starstruck!

[@oldbiker9739]

Good to see you again Dan , after listening to you I left the cult of Jehovah's witnesses , thank you I'm free .

[@donaldlawson1334]

Wouldn’t streets of gold be meaningless in a realm where gold holds no value?

[@Matira269]

That is so obvious, but still, seldom acknowledged! ☺

[@FoursWithin]

Yeah . That was another thing that really struck me how often these material items that are claimed to be worthless in the big picture of the bible are at the same time praised as such valuable aesthetic.

[@donaldlawson1334]

@@FoursWithin totally! Pretty obvious they’re appealing to pretty base human desires

[@donaldlawson1334]

@@Matira269 I was a Christian for basically 30 years and only just now realized this lol…

[@Matira269]

@@donaldlawson1334 Yeah, we were all roped into this matrix. We laugh when the narrator laughs, we cry when he does, we admire, and approve what he admires, we hate what he hates, and we adore and long for what he says is valuable! We all never saw the huge elephant in the room.

[@The-Doubters-Diary]

Love Dan!

[@dorothyhusen6718]

I am a member of freedom from religion and have attended a couple of their conventions. Love ffrf💜

[@stevenbatke2475]

I love Dan! But I don’t want to go into his basement ;)

[@merbst]

Dan Barker is one of the GOATs!

[@jfarr206]

Dan Barker was one of the first people to open my eyes once I started watching various debates about Christianity. Thank you, Dan! - and thanks Tim for having him on.

[@johnkerr762]

This was wonderful. It was so pleasant to see that decent, genuine peaceful people are alive and kicking outside of religion.

[@SCP-SAM]

Well done!

[@user-md6qw6qc9r]

This was one of my favorite interviews on this channel. Such an interesting man Dan Barker is and so humble as well. I am going to check out his channels and KZbin videos now. Thank you Tim, you nailed it again!

[@KrissySaturday]

I'm deep into Dan's audiobook, Godless. His voice is so sweet and comforting to me in this deconstruction journey, and I love hearing him again on this podcast. All this honesty is so refreshing. 🤓

[@wizquinn8021]

Wow! Dan Barker on your channel! 🎉

[@lh1673]

Wow, critical thinker I admire, known him from the debates channels! And 100% agree of the title😊

[@joycesky5041]

Love 💕 love love Dan Barker! I have some of his books that are AWESOME!!! Dan & Jerry Dewitt helped me greatly to deconstruct!

[@daheikkinen]

Dan Barker is a legend.

[@madmartinline6]

I don't know about living forever but I would like to live long enough to master blues guitar. Maybe another 100/200 years ! I would also like to go back to my childhood & teens knowing what I know now about Christianity so to be in a position to defend myself against all the religious nonesense thrown my way by my family & our local church. It's all so obvious now but when being brought up in a Christian home I thought it was all normal even though something inside didn't feel it was quite right. It never crossed my mind to rebel & so I just went along with it for an easy life & to not upset folk. Not a very healthy way to live your life ! It gives me so much peace & happiness now that I am in my seventies to be open & honest with people about my beliefs & views. Just wish I had when I was young & had spent my time seeking the truth & learning about reality & not at church meetings.

[@offgrid405]

Thanks Tim for having my favorite man on. Great show. Great new word - Contraduction! Love it. Makes sense. Fantastic!! Thanks😀

[@Jimyblues]

The joy of learning- as Dan said, it keeps me going

[@petermetcalfe6722]

I had the pleasure of meeting Dan in Liverpool, England 6 years ago and he was a perfect gentleman and came to the pub with us afterwards. He only drank Coke though.

[@michaelgarth7077]

Another interesting talk. Well presented thank you.

[@Lambert1386]

I love listening to him.

[@juba9575]

Two great men. I could listen to you both all day ❤

[@ABooTubeProduction]

You are visibly excited to be interviewing Dan and it's kind of adorable! I think we'd all fanboy over Dan, to be honest. Great work Tim!

[@PurpleButterfly-mf4hn]

Dan Barker AMAZING !!! Been listening to him for years and he made a big impact on my deconversion journey. Fantastic interview Tim...keep um coming! You are doing a fantastic job 👏 You are a wonderful human being, a truth teller, helping set people free my friend 😊

[@antondresucks6055]

1:23:54 listeners should stick around for this, the idea of “contraduction” puts to words to a phenomenon I’ve always struggled to describe. Excellent examples given with the borders/rivers comparison and eyeglasses/nose. I have one of my own: when I was younger, I noticed my legs were a slightly different length and I thought constantly shifting my bodyweight to one leg was making it slightly shorter. Then, a nurse friend at the time suggested my leg was already shorter than the other, and I was shifting my bodyweight to the short leg because it’s more comfortable than standing on the long leg. Blew my mind

[@russell311000]

Look at you bringing out the big dogs.

[@user-ic6ql2wz9w]

Great job of your interview of 'Dan Barker'. A good listen.

[@CartoonArtLover]

I have to thank Dan Barker for pushing me away from religion, specifically Christianity. His book God, the most unpleasant character in fiction, is one of the things that helped me out of my faith.

[@user-zt5gp3br8y]

Wow, it's so good to see Dan Barker on your show.

[@FoursWithin]

Great, cant wait to hear rhis interview. Dan was one of the very first atheists I heard on KZbin ! 😍

[@Eyesopeningheartrealigning]

Dan Barker, instrumental and vocal with understandable, brilliant communication skills 😅 Thank you for bringing him to us Tim, lovely to see Dan and listen to his journey and unfolding of his faith. His book, Godless, is the only one read so far but definitely going to listen to another. Thank you BOTH ❤️🥹🤩😁👌

[@kenhoover1639]

The questions that you asked Dan are questions that people who are deconstructing are concerned with. Good stuff!

[@davidredinger5938]

Love Dan... Great interview.. much love!

[@edwinf4524]

I love to listen to Dan Barker. Greetings from Germany

[@Sological]

Oh! I can't wait for Godless Gospel! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@johnmonk3381]

Dan is also a gifted musician. He is probably and quite humbly the finest specimen of the human race

[@darrenwilliams4938]

Excellent interview - I could listen to Dan Barker talk all day.

[@presentfuture7563]

Hey, cool! I'm reading his book right now.

[@Matira269]

I am going to get it.

[@carletharochelle2362]

Wowww!!!❤❤❤❤ U got the GOAT to join!! Congrats. Excited to watch. Im a bit star struck😁😁

[@glenanderson6153]

I love you both ❤. Keep up the good work. Some days I need the strength of others to carry on. Thanks so much for being true, beautiful and strong!! Much love.

[@johnjohnson1657]

GREAT show. GREAT guest. Kudos.

[@AveriesMiranda]

I will always tune in when Dans on 🙌🏼

[@ffigwit]

Another really interesting interview Tim! Thanks 😊

[@Zaza-eq4ss]

Legendary!!🤩

[@athena3865]

A moral god would not deceive anyone.

[@Chris-op7yt]

i know it's pre-recorded and edited, all the same, a seamless and enjoyable listen and watch of these discussions, and they dont get boring

[@philmabarak5421]

Love Dan Barker! So happy you had him as a guest! Both of your similar and different perspectives are so appreciated. Dan's philosophical insights has helped me tremendously.

[@anthonycostine5067]

Wonderful interview, thank you!

[@barryrichins]

Atta Boy, Boys!!!

[@itkirk]

The legendary Dan Barker!! Awesome interview, Tim!

[@cindiballard900]

Dan's book "Godless" was instrumental in the early days of my deconversion. Being in gospel music myself, I was drawn to his story. I can relate to having to pretend to believe something because it's your career. I am so appreciative of Dan and his wife, and admire everything they are doing with FFRF, and for non-believers and those who are experiencing the painful process of deconversion. I wish there were a Clergy Project type organization for musicians. I will immediately check out "Godless Gospel!" Great interview! Thanks, Tim and Dan!

[@jon.skeptischism]

Just great!

[@unkolawdio]

Good for youu

[@donnyowens4347]

Bro!! So awesome you got Dan on your show! Great to see you growing Tim

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Donny! And thanks for being a part of the early stages of the channel!

[@donnyowens4347]

@@HarmonicAtheist can you shoot me an email?

[@BlackDeath920]

Dan was huge in keeping me out

[@say10..]

I love Dan's "You don't have to go into my basement" bit. 😂

[@ItsSageof]

An excellent addition to this marathon of stories!

[@Maya_Ruinz]

Great guest, an atheist legend

[@bernardofitzpatrick5403]

Awesome interview 🎉legend. Nice to get to know Dan better.

[@MissOne]

Let someone tell HIM, "He wasn't really a Christian' 😮😢😂

[@Apaulshi]

55:26 I would love to see a video of such as well. Wonder if this type of scenario has ever been captured on camera?

[@totonow6955]

A wonderful dialectical thinker. Here's to Hegel! Cheers but suppose that dialectic is both together rather than either or dualism. Perhaps Slavoj Zizek's Parallax View?

[@dh1329]

I love the godless gospel choir! ❤❤❤

[@zach2980]

Maybe it’s my misunderstanding, but the universe seems as fine tuned for me as I am for an HIV.

[@lizhoward9754]

1:35:15 - it is sooooo good to hear him say that it is going to be more common and much more acceptable to be atheist/agnostic/free thinker and run for political office and that the younger people don’t give a fig what religion you are. Yes! I have never understood why a politician’s religion matters. It is stupid. While I never supported or voted for Mitt Romney I always fiercely defended him against anyone who had a problem with him just because he was Mormon. Who cares! It is irrelevant. And kudos to Colin Powell who once said he saw nothing wrong with a Muslim American child wanting to grow up and run for US President. And Colin Powell said that while everyone was bashing anyone Muslim. Who cares if a person is atheist, Muslims or whatever.

[@cousinbuzzin9060]

Dan and Tim, have you ever considered "The Third Possibility"?

[@dagg310]

"god loved the world so much he gave up his only son" ...question for christians ...where is jesus now ?

[@LogicalKip]

Wuh ? Who's next, Richard Dawkins ?

[@soyevquirsefron990]

If religious rituals made me feel better, I’d enact them to get the real world benefit. But they don’t because I know there’s no truth to them. The Litany Against Fear from Dune has more value to me than the entire Abrahamic mythology. Dune isn’t true either, but the meditation is useful to the real world

[@mawhel]

49:00 But there will be endless, fascinating work just by judging the angels (1 Cor 6:3). Who knows what mischief they can get up to (1 Cor 6:3)? You just cannot trust them. I think it was Martin Luther who said that if all the angels in heaven tried to dissuade him of the gospel message, he would not believe them. And given that a full one third of them turned in an instant against the holy God they were in direct communion with, to become demons no less! Yes, it will be perpetually eternally interesting work just to be able to judge them. Sarcasm of course.

[@onceamusician5408]

Of course the heart cannot accept what the mind rejects. That is why, though a convinced Christian, I reject that preposterous flummery which is Pascal's Wager. As for the rest I do not propose to argue it here

[@lizhoward9754]

1:36 - let’s be honest. Trump couldn’t care less about any religion. He doesn’t even care enough to be atheist because I doubt he has given any religion or spirituality a second thought. He believes in the Trump religion. I could see him being the first US President to ban religion if religion became a threat to his power

[@domingosmsande9153]

Everything put together by thought is limited, be it belief, philosophy, mythology, scientific knowledge and all the rest of it. One can perceive the limits and the nature of knowledge. Without any invention of thought, who am I? Without resorting to any explanations - they are all limited - who am I? What am I? Without discovering this, am I not just an ignorant individual? Is it possible to make the discovery about who or what I am?

[@lepidoptera9337]

I can clearly see why high school science class was too much for you. ;-)

[@domingosmsande9153]

Knowledge, though limited, is necessary in daily life. "Episteme" (epi + histasthai) means "overimposition". Any theory is an overimposition to "what is". Beliefs, theories - illustrated ignorance. To really perceive this fact requires a great deal of intelligence. Few humans beings go as far as that. I understand your difficult.

[@lepidoptera9337]

@@domingosmsande9153 It's OK. You didn't have to prove it to me again. :-)

[@bigdomkook]

Its so ironic seeing christian ads on here. Wtf

[@HarmonicAtheist]

They specifically target their Christian ads to atheist content.

[@vimalneha]

Dan reveals the CORE of fear mongering!

[@ronwisegamgee]

Abductive reasoning is literally the thought process of a conspiracy theorist: starting with a conclusion and rationalizing the "evidence" in a post-hoc manner. It's an entertaining thought exercise and a great improv tool for Dungeon Masters/game masters, but it's terrible for discerning reality and is akin to superstitious thinking.

[@oliverclark5604]

Heart and mind are inseparable and qualitatively equal as one. "... the company of those who believed were of one heart and mind..." (NIV Acts 4:32). Heart feeling/having faith and mind thinking are not consequential on each other. In uncertainty of belief, I keep as is/does "God" as this inseparability and qualitative equality in the/a present moment. Church and state are inseparable and qualitatively equal as doing procreation gift roles and purporting presuming their separation is for economic advantage by tax exemption embezzlements and lower insurance cost by fraud. Dan Barker is biased towards thinking and compensates in uncontrollable oscillation that is "contraduction" by referring to "left the faith" when in uncertainty belief is keeping ("God") the inseparability and qualitative equality of doing thinking and being having faith. Remedy for atheism is to try this in uncertainty of belief keeping that withstands extreme tensions caused by self-groomed "contraduction".

[@ziploc2000]

Atheism is the cure to the disease of religion.

[@exvangelicarol5336]

💔🤍💙133:00. the Congressional FreeThought Caucus💙 good work FFRF. Our country needs to remain a secular democracy.

[@chrismartino3519]

same