My Honest Thoughts On The Software Engineering Market In 2024

[@stevo728822]

When he says software engineering is not dead. Remember he sells software interview courses.

[@Darkpill-2]

His courses are also 80% odd everyday with a “flash sale” so things are probably very bad.

[@AndreyMakarov-i7h]

It's not dead, but it's not worth it if you don't have experience.

[@hamsandwich123]

It’s not dead. I don’t sell SWE interview courses. Layoffs have declined, and I’ve seen a big uptick in recruiters reaching out to me over the past few months. Will the market ever be pandemic good again? No, bottomed out interest rates aren’t coming back, but it will be a healthy market nonetheless with more time.

[@marcinkarpinski9163]

thx, u saved me half an hour of my life

[@sagitswag1785]

Software engineering is only dead in the US. Here in Europe the market is very good for it.

[@mrmack678]

Companies are also cutting cost by outsourcing to India, Pakistan, SEA. That's far more dangerous than AI.

[@violin245]

True I’m the last US developer on my team. All outsourced over the years. I’ll be gone in a year.

[@rafael.damiani]

US companies are hiring Brazilian engineers and paying 5 times less, so with the salary of a American Mid Level engineer, they can hire a Brazilian Teach Lead or Staff Engineer...

[@kantonio1000]

@@rafael.damiani That's what we did for my company (I'm the CTO). Outsourced to Sri lanka for 10 times less the cosst. People also just work way harder there

[@funicon3689]

that's been the case for 20 years

[@alexandr6178]

@@kantonio1000What should USA developers do if jobs are getting outsourced?

[@E_Crypto]

TLDR: After the easy money disappeared, the SWE market went from excessive to rational. There...saved you 22 minutes.

[@gerritlikestohike]

Thanks man

[@andresstreetpunk]

Less than rational, it's wild. I don't see med graduates requesting five yoe a portfolio and a masters.

[@user-mr-m12312]

@@andresstreetpunk I don't see dev graduates requesting this either.

[@andresstreetpunk]

@@user-mr-m12312 I am actually seeing it.

[@Gguy061]

You mean TLDW

[@PowderedToastMaaaan]

6 years of experience here as a front end developer. Got laid off in Feb of this year (~6 months ago). Since then I've applied to 961 jobs as of writing this. I've gotten around 20 interviews. about 20% of those I've gotten to final rounds, and haven't landed anything. It's ROUGH out there right now to say the least. I'll be perfectly, or just over qualified for the job and someone is out there that's just better than me. Good luck to anyone out there going through the same thing.

[@JA-gz6cj]

are you homeless now?

[@nagyzoli]

Same. 15 years experience, laid off in december. Rejected from every company in EU that has PHP in job title. I will be broke in about 1 month

[@JA-gz6cj]

@@nagyzoli what's the plan, onlyfans?

[@JA-gz6cj]

@@nagyzoli you homeless now?

[@nagyzoli]

@@JA-gz6cj I own my house, but I will not be able to pay the bills like electricity, internet, etc.

[@BigStupidTech]

No software channel wants to talk about this because it discourages people from even watching. Thank you for following the data where ever it leads ❤

[@VadelGame]

My dude, there are tons of jobs. People think software development is just big corps and the biggest mistake these youtubers make.

[@logan4179]

@@VadelGame My problem with comments like yours is that they lack all necessary nuance to be useful. The question isn't simply if there are a lot of jobs, in aggregate. The question, is if there are a healthy amount of jobs in comparison to the sheer number of people we've pushed into this field. The amount of millennial and Gen Z men we've pushed into software development is staggering. I can understand why someone would come to the conclusion that it's an oversaturated field.

[@alex_lll]

​@@logan4179even this video makes an argument - faang hires less == software engineers are doomed. Like there's nothing beyond faang. While reality is very different.

[@mrbobbilly]

@@VadelGame have you ever heard of fake ghost jobs? Employers have admitted they posted tons of fake jobs to make it look like theyre growing but have no intentions of hiring. It's absolutely terrible for entry level, these entry level jobs are posted as entry level but requires 5 years of work experience plus a bachelors degree paying 15 dollars an hour to even get an interview thats not entry level

[@soycrates]

@@logan4179 It's supply and demand. Nobody gets pushed into pursuing software engineering. People expressed their desires freely in a marketplace. That's life, and the cost of freedom. Videos like this and other FUD will drive new potential recruits away, and so the cycle renews.

[@georgioszampoukis1966]

I graduated in 2020 with an MSc in Electrical and Computer Engineering and since then I have been specializing in computer vision and machine learning. During the past 10 months I have been part of more than 20 interviews and the experience, simply put, is BRUTAL. For entry level positions, companies ask you to be an expert on your field and be ready to deliver at 100% from day 1. There is no onboarding period anymore, no room to adjust and grow. Also, they have raised job requirements to ridiculous levels. On top of asking you to be an expert (for an entry level ML position), they ask you to also know cloud engineering, MLOps, DevOps practices etc. One day, I politely asked one team lead if he knew all these technologies when they were applying for their first industry position, his reply was: "Absolutely not. It is brutal right now.". Take that as you may. From what I understand so far, there is no such thing as an entry level position anymore. All positions are senior level, they just put the "entry level" tag on some of them to justify a lower salary. Sad times.

[@sajiretto]

I don't hold a MSc and I'm not an engineer, but in my field (ops, networking, "devops" (Let's not even discuss this word...), general development) I've seen this ridiculous adverts for the best part of post year 2K. "We are looking for YOU! We believe you are between 20-25 and match our qualifications for a junior ## Minimum qualifications - 2 master or bachelors degrees (that require that you started out university in middleschool) - 5 years knowledge of software released 2 years ago - Know every cloud in existance, including our obscure cloud no one has ever heard of (because it suck) - Know every unix dialect including the linux dialect (yep, seen this one) and Mac. (Bottom line, you will get a windows shitbox) - Be proficient with "military-grade" encryption (oh yes, the military grade, love this one) You will administer our network, our clients, our cloud and work with our developers (you are the developer) to create PRODUCT. Salary is (insert equaling; You can't really live of this) with annual reviews. We use the latest technologies (have no clue) and the best tools (90% chance you get a used busted up windows machine without local admin that is most likely unusable). For us, security is paramount (ie. we are only using microsoft products that doesn't work and leak stuff worse than a contaminated toothless streetwalker on meth) , our network is protected by "military grade" firewalls (custom off the shelf ASUS router) and top line software security (most likely norton antivirus, no secrets management anything) We move fast (high workload) and you have to be stress tolerant (we will run your ass into the ground). ---- The biggest red flag is when they write: "We are a family". Then you know to stay the F--- away.

[@Altatechofficial]

a couple of years from now: "wHy dOnT wE hAVe eNgIneErS aNyMoRe?"

[@programmerBoi]

​@@sajiretto 😂😂

[@starsandnightvision]

@@sajiretto Hilarious.

[@Lamar-n6t]

We can all blame Elon

[@mermaidcodes]

I have 5 years experience in python and I remember few years ago when I was less skilled it was super easy to get jobs . I got phone calls as soon as I applied! Now I'm just trying to survive like a squid game . I'm so happy I started working when I was in college . It's almost impossible to get a job now

[@tongobong1]

I have 20+ years of experience in Europe and I was searching for a job for more than 1 year. After more than hundred applications I finally got a job that pays a lousy salary.

[@palmwineguy]

​​@@tongobong1what is your specialty? that makes a difference...

[@tongobong1]

@@palmwineguy I am a java programmer.

[@tongobong1]

@@palmwineguy my specialty is java programming.

[@phyokyaw7020]

@@tongobong1 Oh Man,,, making me, 8 yr of .net in Asia downnn 🥲 Now looking for a job in Eu since 6 months ago . And Still hunting . . . Show I proceed ?

[@ElliottTheUnicorn]

instructions unclear, watched the first half only and gave up on life

[@clem]

🤣 Oh no...

[@HelloThere-xs8ss]

My man ❤😅

[@mostofamojlish8255]

😂😂

[@rahuldwivedi4758]

🤣

[@aa-vb3vh]

Let’s make AI summarize the instructions😂

[@guitarmetalcovers]

Have 7 years of experience in web development and e-commerce fields and now I'm unemployed for 6 months already. Only couple of companies reply back to my application. The worst thing is not the competition and small amount of open positions, but the absolute unprofessional behaviour from some hiring managers and HRs. This includes not showing up on an interview on time, violating agreements and verbal promises, ghosting and most of the time no feedback whats so ever. And I am not talking about some startups or small organisations, I mean big brands and companies too. So frustrating and brutal, but the hope still exists and I wish those who seek a job to find it soon!

[@doloreslaflipoflopo2746]

yeah you going to find one, but you wasted 1 year of your life having 0 income. that's the hardest part, we don't have much time.

[@TheTariqibnziyad]

Lol welcome to the average 3rd world unemployed experience

[@TheTariqibnziyad]

​@@doloreslaflipoflopo2746nah not everyone is finding a new job in Software engineering

[@charliedallachie3539]

@@doloreslaflipoflopo2746yea that burns. In the same boat but what else can we do? This world is just getting more and more dystopian

[@guitarmetalcovers]

@@TheTariqibnziyad well, maybe you live in 3rd world country, but I don't. Good luck there🤞🏼

[@ericlee5638]

I’ve survived 4 phases layoffs that my company had in the past 3 years. Most who were let go were high paid seniors. Maybe being an underpaid junior isn’t a bad thing at times like this haha

[@clem]

Haha, perhaps! I've definitely heard of some very senior folks struggling right now, because they essentially have to accept much more junior titles and compensation packages.

[@tallahondro]

Yes same here, Have watched 3 rounds of layoffs at my FinTech company in last two years. Most were directors and seniors. I was upset I came in as mid-level but I think that band has kept me from becoming unemployed!

[@pablitocodes]

True.

[@wassamness]

I think the only the reason am at my job is that am criminally underpaid.

[@couldntfindafreename]

Yeah, they fire the people who do the most valuable work, because they are the most expensive. The negative consequences will follow, it just takes time to mature. It explains why so many software/online services (YT, Android, etc.) are getting worse, less reliable, more buggy. Enshittification is coming for the software industry. Congrats!

[@Nocare89]

I have 10 years work experience and get rejected by jr positions with pay competitive with pizza delivery in this market. I wouldn't go back to 18yr me and tell him to work his ass off to get paid scraps while also having to be a part-time salesman/politician. I'd tell him to be a plumber or welder where experience and expertise is more directly translated to compensation.

[@toonitee-ed1ss]

Or a nurse

[@jcriley7695]

@@toonitee-ed1ss Cause men wanna do that!?

[@toonitee-ed1ss]

@@jcriley7695 ICU, ER, Psych, Prisons CRNA etc etc, nursing isn't all Nurse Joy, super feminine work. I'd rather make a ton of money doing something with little competition as a male, AND HIRING INCENTIVES (and on the job appreciation since u can lift heavy and work harder), than be broke or dealing with applying to 1000+ tech jobs and getting nothing over the course of a year. Some people were born to lose though, so..... you do you!

[@toonitee-ed1ss]

@@jcriley7695 ofc youtube deleted my comment.... dude there are different kinds of nurses, its not all lolipops and kisses man. ICU, ER, psych, jail etc. Yeah it sucks but literally every single job INCLUDING TECH SUCKS. They get paid a LOT, can upskill and be CRNA ($200k/year avg), NP, PA and they actually are hiring unlike tech where you apply to 1000+ jobs over a year and get nothing.

[@alisjay9798]

@@jcriley7695yes

[@jerrykreutzer4326]

The industry was very unhealthy in 2021, after the boom you described. People working multiple 300k+ jobs, practicing Leetcode (or AlgoExpert) all day anyway, just to jump to the next company for 20% TC bump. Interest rates or not, AI or not, it just wasn't sustainable. After the bubble there must be a downturn, which is where we are now, and then things will stabilise. That also means that many people will leave the industry and the average comp will decrease. But that's all fine for those of us who are in it for the long term.

[@warriordx5520]

Or the fact that it's over because A.I will be there to reduce number of jobs. Huwawei has entire automated factories with 5 people overseeing it like a nuclear reactor. It's over, change careers.

[@nobbynob-mq2rn]

What do you consider long term? Tilll your 35 and burned out? That's long term?

[@Sean-fs1sg]

@@warriordx5520 Just picked up a new position with 20% increase in comp package, good work life ballance arrangement, and literally only looking for 2 weeks... I hope more people take your advice, makes life breezy for the stayers.

[@jerrykreutzer4326]

@@nobbynob-mq2rn No, that's literally the opposite of what I'm saying. I don't want to FIRE or anything like that, I don't need to work 12 hours a day for the most money possible. I'm sure it will always be possible to have a good job with software engineering background.

[@tuukka8803]

@@warriordx5520 There is a huge crowd of software engineers maintaining that thing, you must be talking about operators/controllers

[@igerstel]

I've been a software engineer for 11 years now and this is the most depressing I've seen the market. Like, I've applied to 80 jobs and only getting a handful of even initial phone screenings over the past 2 months. It's wild.

[@akuskus]

One problem is definitely the discriminative hiring practices implemented in companies, especially in larger ones, especially in the US. And you know whose applications are being put into the bottom of the pile.

[@oopsitsagame1766]

Hi man we're in the same boat! 've been applying that much and still nothing. The harsh reality hits after a decade! ;)

[@jmarkos]

same here

[@dongmingzhu666]

Yeah but the AI boom is gonna continue to require large number of software engineers 😂😂❤

[@nobytes2]

@@akuskusfor this reason you never say your race or ethnicity on these questions, if your name has another form use the English version like for example if you’re Juan use John watch your calls increase in a heartbeat

[@milandean]

🎉 Got an offer from Apple just two weeks ago as an ML Engineer! Less than 5 years experience in the industry too, though I have a Master's degree. Be positive guys, there is a path forward!

[@danh4538]

Really well done! Hope you onboard smoothly, learn a lot of things and, most importantly, have a cracking time!

[@Haz-Zzz]

Grats, hope its the start of a new life for ya after all that hard work

[@eduardaskuliesa8308]

What a G well done !

[@clem]

Well done! The Master's degree may have helped, though it's hard to say without hearing it explicitly from your recruiter / interviewers, but either way, the point is you landed an awesome job! 🥳 There's still hope! Hope you have a blast at Apple!

[@Chukozy]

@@milandean congratulations 🎊

[@brendangolledge8312]

I trained with the goal of becoming an electrical engineer and graduated in 2015. I had a crap time getting a job and it took me 7 years to eventually get a mechanical engineering job. I lived overseas for a few years teaching English because I couldn't even get a job as a garbage man in my own country. At the time I thought maybe I should have become a software engineer. But I guess the wheel turns around and smashes every profession in turn. Being out of work for 7 years because you chose the wrong profession has an enormous impact on your life that you might never be able to recover from. But it's not even like I could have known better because it sounds like it was a temporary phenomena. So much of your quality of life comes from the dumb luck of choosing a profession that's in demand when you are ready to enter the job market. Probably there are lots of other things in life that are like that too.

[@ogs_Boga1900]

Same shit happened to me with accounting back in 2011 and again now with animation in 2024. The great capitalistic lie, need to be born to the right parents.

[@jurassicthunder]

there are degress that needed to be had to actually find jobs and other roughly 95% of degrees are very dynamic and they might be useful and useless at any given time. like doctors will always need a degree to find a job but not graphic designers or software developers.

[@trip_t2122]

Sorry you went through that. What industry are you working in right now?

[@brendangolledge8312]

@@trip_t2122 I said in my original comment that I work as a mechanical engineer. I work for a dredging company right now.

[@trip_t2122]

@@brendangolledge8312 I missed that. Again, sorry for your experience but I'm happy you finally got a job. Most people want a smooth life but it rarely goes that way. I have an undergrad degree in Mechanical Engineering but for the past 2 years I have been learning software engineering in the hopes of becoming a back-end dev. But seeing such videos makes me question my decision.

[@davi_singh]

🎉🥳 I am actually getting interviews now, got laid off last year and 1 year was brutal with hardly any interviews coming my way but this year and specifically from the last 2 months I have been getting way more interviews

[@KillasStayFly]

Same, three interviews this week. I think most companies just finalized their budgets for 2025.

[@clem]

Good to hear! Best of luck with the interviews!

[@nehalpradhan2229]

Which country, role and level??

[@davi_singh]

@@nehalpradhan2229 Kenya and senior engineer, applying for remote jobs in the EMEA region

[@youssefel-shabasy833]

Because It is the hiring session

[@halbaloney4593]

In Canada, I got a Comp Sci MSc. I did ML algorithms for a living. Now, over a year later, I drive a van in the hopes that it delays/prevents me from needing to live in one. "Companies are still hiring" means nothing in an oversaturated market. Congrats on not needing to worry about it though 🥳

[@natgenesis5038]

So you got CS Degree and still not having a job ?

[@halbaloney4593]

@@natgenesis5038 I got 2 CS Degrees, then worked in the field for a little while, and then couldn't get another job. Now I do unrelated work to pay the bills.

[@censoredeveryday3320]

25 years of EXP with graduate degree and I basically retired from the industry. I also drive a truck now... mostly for something to do

[@Lolerburger]

Yeah this guy's idea of "look on the bright side" was literally to dress the negatives up as positives. "There's 70% less jobs now, but at least it's not 0!". Like what? "AI won't replace you, it'll just thin your numbers to 30% or less". Nice.

[@RAHULTMNT100]

how's the software job market in canada ? which tech has promise

[@johndlednicky]

25+ years experience - no CS degree (CS wasn’t a major in the 80’s). In Jan 2021, I sent 5 resumes, got to 3 final interview rounds, got 2 offers, one decent. All of these were out of the stack and sector that my experience is in (I was looking for a change). Last fall, I left that position when they returned to the office. I took a break (second long-ish recent resume gap) and started looking in June, 2024. In 60 days, I sent 15 resumes, got to the final stage with 3 of them, and got no offers (one of them i withdrew because of red flags). I’m going to spend some time doubling down on my main stack and plug my experience gaps with certifications. I don’t expect to see any results until 2025.

[@deckard5pegasus673]

I've been a software engineer for over 25 years. I started in the 1990's in a video streaming start up. After that I worked some years for another start up in the early 2000's that did mobile development for PDAs, Windows CE, etc. Then later on worked at another start up that made software products for television stations, then eventually ended up in government software job, etc. Looking back, I can see the writing was clearly on the wall. In all the start up companies I worked in, there were very few developers, like 3 developers, and we were able to compete with extremely big companies. When the start up companies I worked for, started becoming successful, they began hiring more and more developers. Almost none of these new developers contributed anything in terms of new products, or even programming. They basically were just taking up space, doing.. I don't know what. A few years later, I met one of my old team mates from one of the start up companies. He said shortly after I left, the company no longer did it's own software development, they gave up on it. And that they dedicated to buying up smaller companies and their software. In summary, I don't want to sound "elitist", but for example, with a team of 25 developers, I saw that many 3 to 4 developers were doing 90% of the work, and the other 10% of the work was extremely easy maintenance, not even development. Honestly, looking back now( hindsight is 20/20), I am not surprised at the state of the software industry, but rather I am more surprised that the party lasted so long.

[@JamplayJeff]

I think what you are seeing is the difference between someone who is a 'programmer' vs people who use programming to develop products. Ultimately, programming (as much as I love it), is nothing but the means to creating a product. If you think like that, it doesn't really matter what tech you use, or whether AI is a thing -- you'll always be using the tools to create and bring a better product to market.

[@andersbodin1551]

Maintenance is much more difficult then development. It sounds to me like you just devalue maintenance

[@tretortugas]

Yeah! What you describe there (a few core consultants/developers doing the heavy lift, while the other do ...well....sort of administrative work), I observed it as well!! This might also have been the reason why Elon Musk fired almost 80% of the developers of Twitter, when he took over this company. I guess most people thought (or still think) that this was a crazy action. But once the valuable developers are identified, the remaining headcount is just weight, which is dispensable. Gen-Z generation California based developers are now having a very bad time, because beside Twitter/X now many more software giants are also firing the useless staff.

[@sajiretto]

@@andersbodin1551 I don't know if he devalues maintenance, I've been on both part of the spectrum in this question, but I agree with you. It is harder to maintain stuff, especially if it's badly coded or not tested correctly. I'm sitting with Product X right now that has parts that should work, but doesn't and then you spend your time coming to the conclusion that it is a bug, and the developer of Product X just goes "ok, whatever" and you end up sitting there with the product not working. And you cannot fix it even though you have access to the source.

[@sajiretto]

@@tretortugas When I was at Ericsson the RnD organisation was 5,000+ people. All had the status of "developer". They laid of like 10% at first and they were mostly secretaries of sorts. Most likely less than half of the RnD was actual developers.

[@liviutimar]

I would also add that AI is flattening out. It’s been 2-3 years and it hasn’t replaced anyone. And not just software engineers, but also designers, videographers, doctors, radiologists etc.

[@clem]

👆

[@MotivateHouse]

AI is overblown. My stock portfolio has seen a massive hit because of that.

[@jackbailin2588]

@@MotivateHouse AI is not overblown. People are way too impatient and think the impact to general society will come now and fast, but it'll go very slowly and gradually. The internet took 10-20 years to hit maturity and become life changing - the breakthrough happened, but there's still years of building out infrastructure to make it have the effect it's touted to. There is a solid 5-10 years of new infrastructure building and integration that needs to happen before AI feels like it's truly life changing to the average person. AI right now is where the internet was in 2001-2002. Peak hype. My educated guess is the AI stocks will all cool off for a while, then the few winners will slowly emerge as extremely valuable companies.

[@MotivateHouse]

@@jackbailin2588 I'm skeptical of this one to be honest. All it seems to have produced so far is clickbait content and misinformation.

[@jackbailin2588]

@@MotivateHouse That’s a fair assessment of current state, I agree (so far). I work in the industry, I’m lucky enough to peek at what big enterprise orgs are planning with respect to GenAI for the next 2-5 years. There’s some cool stuff coming. Personally I think the biggest impact to the general populous will be felt in a totally different domain - healthcare. GenAI has proven incredibly powerful for drug discovery. It’s likely that you or a close friend/family member will take a medication in the near term future that treats or cures a previously untreatable ailment, that was discovered with the help of AI. You’ll never know it was AI that made it possible, but it will positively impact your life in a really meaningful way.

[@jks1311]

just got hired by mc Donalds there's still hope out there guys

[@MukulKumar-pn1sk]

First developers used to do part time jobs in mcde n then they created AI n now jobless in their own field and now back to mcDe. Great evolution

[@diamondbeats2024]

i know for real.... i am studying swe and just worked at mcds.

[@LonelyRiderStonerBand]

if you want to be hired nowadays, you have to be pro in 20+ techs including AI (machine learning), those times when you’re a pro in react, coloring some buttons are gone. Plus there are at least 8000 competitors are desperate for a job as well, so it’s a great luck to get a job as a software engineer. I’ve been struggling to find a job for 8 months, gave up, got a TEFL certificate and now teaching English in Vietnam 😅🤦

[@AlBICIDI]

Interesting. How's life in Vietnam?

[@hrsbg]

Congrats on being a native English speaker.

[@LonelyRiderStonerBand]

@@AlBICIDI Mate, that's awesome. I've been living abroad for 8+ years. Most of the people are scared to leave their comfort zone. I'm an example, nothing to scare, traveling around the World is one of the best ways to observe the situation from a different angle.

[@LonelyRiderStonerBand]

@@hrsbg thanks lad, but I'm not a native one ☺️

[@Accuface2000]

You were humbled 🤣

[@jabroni-28]

I've been unemployed for 10 months. Laid off twice in 2023. I have almost 8 years of experience. It's rough out there.

[@diyoptics1387]

I was unemployed for 18 months and I have whopping 21 years of experience. But I was eventually hired/chased by three companies at the same time just once I realized the reason. Just gave up my ego and fears and focused on my strengths. Good luck buddy

[@pemifo260]

@@diyoptics1387 Hello sir. What was the reason according to you and yourself?

[@lynic-0091]

@@pemifo260 Good question, it may be because of his personality or another reason, not because of interest rates.

[@jabroni-28]

@@diyoptics1387 i start a new gig in mountain view in 2 weeks 🙂

[@diyoptics1387]

@@lynic-0091 and, why not interest rates? Seniors suffer more because of their higher salaries

[@JJSeattle]

I calculated, only 1 in 50 Americans employed are working for a large corporation like Microsoft, Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, etc. 89% of all companies in the U.S., 9 in 10 companies have less than 20 employees, so don't neglect the smaller employers who need you.

[@TheSuperBoyProject]

Working in a smaller company is honestly the best thing you can do. Even with a crappy boss it is infinitely better than having a lower management dude waiving his dick around because the cost of hiring is negligible. Small companies cannot have high turnover, so they value you more

[@dasaauploads1143]

I work in a multinational Fintech, we switched from hiring 50 new SWE every year to hire only 10 new SWE in the last years. We only have seniors with an increased workload using copilot by now.

[@nikhilsharma5233]

Well if the workload is increased company would see the quality decrease or the output , its high time they realise that maybe they do need some more devs as well as AI .

[@harmo2543]

"FOCUS ON WHAT YOU CAN CONTROLL" . I personally think if companies start relying completely on AI, that will create problems that will require more software engineers to fix.

[@TheBlackManMythLegend]

Copium

[@nobytes2]

That’s how I’ve always lived my life. I don’t care about politics or markets. I do my job and get paid and I live a happy life. Problem is people worry too much about what the news and social media pushes out.

[@JohnnyThund3r]

AI has the potential to make more Jobs then not. Right now A.I. has pretty much run out of training Data and has already pretty much consumed everything on the internet. Now companies are so desperate for more Data they are using A.I. to make it, which is basically incest and has all the same problems you get from that process. In the end, to get A.I. to work the way they want it to, they are gonna need to hire 1000X the amount of photographers, videographers and artists that the world currently has in total to go out and make new Data that is very specific to AI's training needs. Like several hundred hours of high quality video of the same spices of tree from all different angels and at different times of day.

[@TheRealTommyR]

And really AI is just another form of software development.

[@RealPolitik-dy4it]

AI isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. Case in point: The Amazon AI stores. A few years back, they touted this as the future. You could walk in, grab your items off of the shelves, walk out, and the money would be automatically deducted. Only one problem with that, it wasn’t AI in the sense that we are used to. It was AI in the sense of “Actually Indians”. Apparently, they just had 2,000 people in India just watching the cameras in the stores, following the customers, and manually inputting their items.

[@itismydump]

Its business, plain and simple. Older engineers in other disciplines have always told their lesser peers to learn the business side of things early and often.

[@ScreechOwlx]

Just quit my Amazon job, so one more job out there for someone who wants it

[@rushas]

Why did you quit and what plans do you have? Just wondering

[@johnsmith-ro2tw]

I saw a chart about turnover at big tech. It's very high. Amazon is 1.6 years in avg. Every SW engineer wants to join big tech, but quickly wants to leave shortly after joining. Why ? Is it that bad ? I imagine you're squeezed like a lemon until you burn out.

[@firstLast-jw7bm]

@@johnsmith-ro2tw big expectational build ups based on imagination usually lead to big downswings in mood after attainment e.g. if you excitedly expect a 100 for a long time and you get a 75, it feels terrible

[@Ad9911io]

Tech is draining your soul and drinking your blood with a straw ​@@rushas

[@Yugiohplayer5]

@@johnsmith-ro2tw firstLast isn't wrong, but Amazon in particular doesn't have the best culture from what I've read, people go there to get it on their resume and leave

[@markheight8291]

I just hired two amazing engineers last month. There will always be work for software engineers. The big companies just completely messed up their financials over the past few years and many development teams (its way worse for data science) didn't bring enough value

[@poetryflynn3712]

Do you have any other roles?

[@pomada9724]

​@@poetryflynn3712 same

[@markheight8291]

@@poetryflynn3712 yes. based in europe?

[@MnemonicCarrier]

For me the best times were the 1990s (COBOL on IBM 360 mainframes). 🎉 Back then, you could still buy a large house for 25K. I cleaned up so much, it enabled me to retire early 😊 The Y2K thing (from 1998 to 2000) was like a huge bonus!!!

[@properjob2311]

the rise of the Internet and Indian offshoring killed it

[@absolute___zero]

Today this would be equivalent to a blockchain dev, they make like 200k per year, after a few years you can buy a house.

[@OEFTF11]

Good for you, thanks for rubbing it in everyone's face that you got lucky. Now go back to being a reject somewhere else.

[@iverbrnstad791]

Man, I wish I was around back in the old days, when nothing was solved, and no one knew of any best practices. My company has in-house implementations for strings in C++ from before std::string became a thing, would have been a blast to be able to explore so much stuff for oneself.

[@Gguy061]

Tell us when you get that time machine code up and running

[@dnedya]

I remember watching your videos back in 2016 when I was like 12 years old and now I'm a cs undergrad! It was a serious struggle getting my first internship but I got an offer at fidelity and they've already offered me to come back full time, so it's definitely possible! 🎉

[@clem]

2016? I only started posting in 2019! Well done with the internship and the full-time position!

[@dnedya]

@@clem lol woops, I'm probably thinking of tech lead then. Anyway, thank you!

[@dimitarmargaritov]

Well done on being able to stick with this.

[@Sonyemman97]

I got a job after a year of being unemployed. I have 4 YOE. I absolutely love coding and I want this to be my career long term. However this experience really has me questioning whether to continue long term. I’m 27, I can afford to be laid off. I’ll just move back home. But I cannot imagine having a family and getting laid off. I personally know people with families and mortgages that got laid off with over 6 YOE. I cannot be in that position, especially if it can be prevented. Don’t really know what to do going forward honestly. Even now at my new job, I just have anxiety that my job is incredibly insecure. Also: 🎉

[@clem]

Well done for getting back on your feet! I'd say the best thing you can do is to keep your spirits high and to stay hungry and always learning. Living in constant fear that you're going to be laid off isn't healthy, but sitting on your laurels and assuming your job is a forever job isn't healthy either.

[@Sonyemman97]

Appreciate the kind words man! Long time fan of the channel. Definitely going to aim to be interview ready even while I have a job. A big part of why it took so long was just being ill prepped for interviews. **PSA to anyone considering interviewing for Meta** it’s a hard as fu**

[@togrulaliyev5619]

I'm in a similar situation. I'm 27 years old and have been unemployed for about a year, but I have a family to support. I also have 4 years of experience in software development and I also really love coding, and that's why I haven't given up. I'm spending my time practicing DSA, learning new languages and tools, deepening my knowledge, and making connections. These are the toughest times of my life, but I'm doing everything I can to land a job.

[@Sonyemman97]

@@togrulaliyev5619Good luck. I can only imagine what you’re going through. Praying you get to an offer

[@kooldoods6553]

@@togrulaliyev5619 Same situation here. 28, just got laid off. Have 2 years experience in software development. Also practicing programming, web development, improving on myself, keeping myself busy..

[@simonboland]

As someone who's worked in the industry for 25+ years, I've been able to stay gainfully employed. Here are my suggestions: * Think of software engineering just like commodities such as iron ore, nickel, etc. A bust will generally follow a boom. Even though the situation may be grim now, times will change. * Adapt and re-train. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you're too old to learn. Always try to pick up new skills. * Concentrate on being a better engineer, e.g. solve problems faster, learn what was right/wrong about a particular project you worked on, get better at the basics (an example: make your code more performant or elegant). * Steer clear of fads/faddish things. Beware of the ME TOO phenomenon when it comes to technologies. Everyone will jump on the bandwagon of AI and LLMs now. Just remember the same applied in the past with different technologies. * Take more ownership of things at a company.

[@stephaniejsmes8991]

Thanks for the advice.

[@TheWityful]

As a FE dev of 4 years, I’ve found it hard to land my next position. Decided to pursue my masters in addition to certifications from AWS as a last ditch effort of being able to stay in tech. If it doesn’t work out, I’m ready to go into the trades. I know folks making 300k+

[@angeleeshaw]

What trades are people making 300K in?

[@williamparrish2436]

Trades that take 10 to 15 years to get that salary and are highly competitive.

[@MrAnt-hh3bp]

@@angeleeshaw probably something like under-water oil rig pipe welding, where you're constantly in danger of being sucked into a low pressure hole and turned into spaghetti

[@j2csharp]

Ya, I mean, the Trades are just so ridiculous now. It's got me wondering if I'm in the right industry. I didn't think my next door construction worker neighbor would be making more than me as a SWE. Wow. The world is upside down!

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

@@j2csharp I know someone in the UK who runs a plumbing company and still occasionally goes out on jobs himself. He earns more than his accountant. Was able to put two children through private education, owns four houses and drives an Audi A6.

[@_nimrod92]

My CS degree is a waste so many years working on this only to confront this.

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

My backup plan was to study History. I could have had any job I wanted. Instead I studied CS/computing-related stuff and ended up pigeonholed. Meanwhile, other people can abandon their old careers to do some bootcamp to transition into tech, but I can't transition into their old jobs (marketing etc.) very often because the skill sets don't align. I've also discovered that some hiring managers will see you with tech qualifications sniffing around other roles and they'll think it's just plain weird. The whole thing was a mistake.

[@_nimrod92]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 ohh man I thought I was the only one that was experiencing the hiring managers being extremely skeptical onto why I am applying for non dev jobs. Before I finished my degree i worked in logistics and was thinking of just working in that for now while the tech market recovers but now more professionally utilizing my bachelors in more serious logistics roles only to get turned down because I might get bored supposedly and leave.

[@shawnfromportland]

@_nimrod92 stay long-minded for the long game. i graduated from cs directly at the 2008 financial collapse and it was very rough. given enough years, things got better. my advice for new grads is focus on ai. practice prompting, practice copilot development, follow ai trends. people with cs knowledge are still going to be needed at least for a while to orchestrate ai.

[@prtk_m]

@@shawnfromportland are you saying the projections from bureau of labor etc that software engineering will continue to grow despite AI (LLM based models)

[@boogeyman2868]

@@shawnfromportland even if utopia ever became reality - are you aware that would be the end of our kind? one solar eruption away from extermination? also what would we be doing all day long. social security receivers are not exactly known for being the most fulfilled people. im not saying everyone would have a problem (i certainly wouldnt) but the average guy, trust me, you dont want this. knowing to be useless, not needed, nothing to discover anymore cause its all been done already, you'd practically have to hook yourself up to an iv line loading u up with nutrients and heroine 24/7 until the end of days (power outage).

[@b-art6098]

Reminds me of the 2010. when I was first searching for an IT job after graduation. I sent something like 300 job applications to land the first job, and in the end it was via recommendation from a friend.

[@cellthegoat]

the world is going towards a way worse time

[@Souljacker7]

WOAH, we need an explanation on that hairdo first. Are you working as a truck driver now? Is that because of the market?

[@tugberkbastepe]

Lmaoooo 😂😂

[@scotttang6229]

woah, are you working on being a jack ass? Seems like you're making good progress.

[@ray.wilson]

ROFL

[@SacredCASHcow]

this is what happens when you don't have to work an office job

[@vjunloc1]

I think he's broke

[@mohammadhalipoto]

I've not yet see the vid yet but I also have some thoughts based on experience: 1. Software people in the US make twice that of those in the EU, yes, another 1st world economy 2. Companies are bloated with personnel who do 20% of the work but are part of the 80% of the employee pool 3. Companies are also firing many of the H-1 visa holders so they can get hired back home in Asia for pennies on the dollar

[@luxraider5384]

1. Depends on which european countries, and many things are paid by the employers: health insurance, retirement

[@captnmaico6776]

@@luxraider5384 Even with health insurance, retirement etc its nearly 1,3 to 1.5 times more. Because income taxes are higher and also the retirement option in most european states fucking suck. Iam from germany, you cant compare countries like switzerland, ireland, Luxemburg or parts of scandinavia with germany, let alone the US. All these countries combined have less people than some major US cities metropolien area alone or federal states in germany. If we compare PPP the USA is far above most big! european countries, thats the most accurate comparison. When you compare, you can only compare equals among equals. So the closest countries for the US are the G7 and its ahead of all G7 nations, with germany being closest. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

[@ksg7882]

You cannot outsource every employees. Some key roles at big tech companies needs a team onsite that could collaborate well. Outsourcing is not easy as people make it sound.

[@censoredeveryday3320]

Yup USA workers are the most expensive in the world.

[@QmdVJ4KrCjUk888]

Let's face it, the golden age is over. I became unemployed since Jan and had been actively job-seeking until July. Then I simply stopped, understanding it's been a complete waste of time applying for jobs because there is simply no jobs out there! So either you know somebody who's been working in a company with vacancy and he/she can refer you, or you should try something else. Let's move on before your savings is drained out waiting for those shitty interviews calls.

[@thomasjanssens788]

What are the alternatives?

[@QmdVJ4KrCjUk888]

​@@thomasjanssens788 Blue collar, online business, day trade whatever. Depending on your age, if you are over 35 the choice could be very limited. But you get to figure the shit out cos SE is really dying.

[@-Engineering01-]

Alternative, plumber ?

[@Altatechofficial]

me *self teaching web development for 2 years with the hopes to get a job* job market "Yeah, about that..."

[@j.manuelp.vicens3888]

Do not give up. I am teaching myself as a hobby. Lucky for me I am a Reg. Nurse so plenty of job security here.

[@ebichu8703]

Big tech recruiter here. I agree with most of what you said. I'm not too familiar with the intern and recent graduate space I have heard it's extremely competitive now to join a FANG company. For any senior level IC from a FANG company or similar (OpenAI, Databricks etc) they are highly sought after. The market is getting competitive again with Meta and OpenAI offering a ton of money. Also, if you have a CS degree from the top computer science schools - MIT, Stanford, Waterloo etc you're set for life. As for managers, they're a dime in a dozen and there are way less manager roles available. Same for directors. Companies are only considering managers/directors for their domain expertise and tech experience. If you're engineering considering a manager role, stay as an IC. You will be more valued in the industry. The market is bloated with managers and directors, and companies will continue to flatten organizations.

[@-Engineering01-]

So you're saying like bootcampers and CS degree holders from universities that no one ever knows are f.ked.

[@readdir]

It's over for people who landed jobs just by passing leetcode interviews. It's not as bad for people who have worked at startups and have strong practical coding chops building apps and evaluating real-world tradeoffs while doing so. And though interest rates have something to do with it, it's more about the companies realizing their talent pool is mostly over-hired and cannot be re-configured for the AI pivot, higher velocity for upcoming features, and for what they do are way too expensive. Big companies essentially realized they hired a bunch of people who didn't really know how to build anything practical end-to-end to save their lives. If companies are going to pay you 300k nowadays, they're going to expect you to be able to lead projects, lead other engineers, create a platform, be ok with unknowns, and talk the business domain. Thing is, that's what engineers working in startups have been doing all this time. Honestly you're partly to blame for this because your early "Expert" courses were just around algorithms and theoretical / performative systems design interviews and nothing that's really tangible when working in a real job.

[@joefortey4]

Exactly, companies want engineers that can actually deliver software. I despise leetcode with a passion because of what it's done to the hiring process. Luckily, companies are starting to see the light and are focusing on actual real world skills. A company doesn't care if you can invert a binary tree, what they want is someone that can take business requirements and deliver a technical solution for them, hopefully without blowing up the existing apps in the process. I feel I get noticed by companies and recruiters more now because I'm slowly moving into the DevOps realm. Cloud qualifications really stand out currently.

[@readdir]

@@joefortey4 Ops is all practical experience. Nothing theoretical. Even if you have infrastructure certs, it really doesn't mean you can support infra in most companies. And though the position is not revenue generating, it's a critical to hire for since you don't want your product engineers managing infra (they should be building features) and someone's got to make sure your infra doesn't go offline daily.

[@chrisdigiuseppe7717]

Great comment. There will always be a shortage of real software _engineers_. Bootcamps flooding the market with folks who don't think at the level you described, and *horrible* implementations of Scrum/Agile to manage them have poisoned the industry, and now we're experiencing the fallout.

[@readdir]

@@joefortey4 Yeah and it's even worse for people who have very little work experience because they decided to create leetcode courses. No one is going to hire them because you can just ask AI to explain an algorithm for you (which is how it should be). Most of them, including Algo Expert can't even explain most of the concepts well.

[@RogerValor]

@@joefortey4 tbh. I don't think it is leetcodes fault. I remember when I studied medicine, we had a knockout test after the first year. After the test, a lot of people said things like they learned all nerves and bones, deeply unnerving me, who did not have time for such islands of knowledge. None of those however made the cut, I did. People like to impress. Solving hard stuff is impressive. But solving real stuff is hard, because it is less about puzzles, and more about keeping your stamina up, accepting to work with bad code of your peers, and trying to make stuff work instead of impressive.

[@suleimanmamman7689]

Doctors can treat anyone regardless of their profession, and software engineers can work in any industry, adapting their skills to solve diverse challenges across various sectors. Let all be positive!

[@JD-vj4go]

All these people flocked to tech because of how bad jobs got in other industries. Good luck in other industries.

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

You're not quite right about doctors. They all have the same (or similar) baseline knowledge and can talk a little bit about things that aren't their specialism. They can also administer fairly basic treatments. But a neurologist can't put steel plates in your leg after a car crash. A rheumatologist can't do a heart transplant. A dermatologist can't treat your diabetes. A radiologist might be able to spot your brain tumour on a scan, but he can't fix it.

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

@@JD-vj4go This is the thing. We've basically created a seesaw effect where everyone has bumrushed into 'tech' and left other viable, worthwhile, truly useful occupations empty. We don't have enough cops so crime has exploded. We don't have enough nurses so hospitals are a disaster. But we've got another 14 gajillion Python bootcamp graduates. Yay?

[@JD-vj4go]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 Despite propaganda to the contrary crime is down. Lower than ever. The problem at hospitals is private equity has been buying them and understaffing to extract more profit. Where I live one company owns all but two hospitals. Many people jumped ship from medical to tech because their wages were stagnant or falling and they were getting worked to death. Now they are doing to tech workers what they did to autoworkers in the 70s and 80s. Are there still autoworkers? Sure. But fewer and they aren't doing as well as they used to. People flooded tech because investors were destroying other careers so they could make more profit.

[@SpiderKidoesMinecraft]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 You're spot on-while we desperately need more nurses and physicians, the barrier to entry for becoming a doctor is incredibly high compared to engineering. For physicians, it's 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, and at least 3 years of residency, all while piling up a mountain of debt. It's no wonder we have a shortage of doctors, and that shortage is a big reason why healthcare is struggling so much right now. On the other hand, the barrier to entry for engineering is much lower, especially during the COVID years. We saw mass money printing and a tech hiring boom, with thousands of bootcamps popping up (no disrespect to those who went through them). These bootcamps made it possible for people to quickly transition into tech, flooding the market with new engineers. Meanwhile, becoming a doctor remained a grueling, decade-long process with huge financial and emotional costs. The contrast is stark, and it highlights why we’re facing such a critical shortage of healthcare professionals while tech is overflowing with new talent. We need to address these disparities by making the path to becoming a physician more accessible, or we’re only going to see these imbalances get worse.

[@whitesoxrules]

I would express the same view for those in the Big Data sectors, such as Data Engineering and Data Science. Securing a position in these fields is also challenging. Despite having a Master’s degree in Computer Science and seven years of work experience in Chicago, I’m struggling to find a new role as I try to leave the consulting industry, which I dislike. Additionally, the excitement around Data Science is exaggerated-the media often portrays AI and Data Science as if they were newly developed, when they've actually been established for years. The only positive takeaway I can offer is that if you're considering returning to graduate school for a Master’s or PhD, you should go ahead and do so. Also pass certifications.

[@michaelpieters1844]

Data scientists is just Statisticians rebranded because the Computer Science departments wanted to bottle old wine into new bottles. A similar thing happened with quantum physics. Chemistry stole the discipline and started calling it quantum chemistry. I mean, what the actual fuck.

[@toddboothbee1361]

What should a codger in his 50s do? Write epic poems about the golden age of software development.

[@summerWTFE]

Depends on what you like the most. Writing code or poems?

[@SizarieldoR]

Tv series like Silicon Valley are the biggest poem about the golden age of sw dev

[@freelancerthe2561]

poetry in different programming languages \begin{document} \@to@be@true \if@not\@to@be@ Not to be! \fi \@to@be@false \if@not\@to@be@ Not to be! \fi \end{document}

[@BlockchainRealms]

🤣

[@Dav-jj2jb]

Start your own business?

[@Eugene.Berezin]

Love your reflection! Tech is not this easy money, get 6-figure type with ease doing almost nothing anymore. Who complains are looking for? Problem solvers and specialists.

[@alex_lll]

Tech, expectation: lotsa money, easy job Reality: lotsa money with never ending burnout

[@zamnnnnnn]

this man put JS and TS at the god tier of programming languages tierlist btw...

[@warriordx5520]

Very based.

[@nastymffs]

Valid

[@Turnpost2552]

Jesus Christ, this guy is gone

[@movement2contact]

@@Turnpost2552 Huh...?

[@Digger-Nick]

He sold pans during a gold rush and told people what they wanted to hear.

[@lak1294]

I've said this on other channels; getting into a trade may be the way going forward. There is a shortage of tradespeople of all kinds, be it in construction / renovation, electrical, plumbing, carpentry, HVAC, etc. This might extend to areas such as green energy services (e.g. solar panel or heat pump installation) and who knows what else. These fields usually pay well and they're not as susceptible to being replaced by AI.

[@notaplasticexistence]

Green energy will happen as soon as they do another moon landing

[@brunovaz]

If AI replaces white collar jobs, I assure you there will be no shortage of people in these areas. They will be flooded with new people and salaries will plummet

[@trip_t2122]

​@@brunovazThen it's better to get a headstart

[@dustinprince4527]

🎉well rounded discussion. I am 45 and 10 years ago I wanted to get into the industry, I even took an intro to programming class. Darn I feel I missed the window. But I don’t care, I’m going for it. It is something I want and I’ll do my best to make it happen. Here’s an idea for a video. Going into programming as a second or third career? Hmmm.

[@hv3115]

Nobody is going to hire a 45 y/o plus entry level programmer.

[@DevlogBill]

When I first saw the title of this video, I thought to myself "here we go again with the self promotions". But I must say I was completely wrong about this video and it was actually good video because you spoke honestly from your perspective on the market. I am actually happy to have watched this video because it had confirmed to me that now I am free, and I don't have to no longer learn things to find a job but now I get to choose things I really want to do for fun. Hope to see more videos like this one.

[@patrickchan2503]

i had the same feeling, I was like... this had better not be a clickbait, it's a good video.

[@miezeken]

I wouldn't worry too much. The returns software provides is still a 10x capitalism points multiplier. Demand will balance out over time.

[@ryanfortner145]

I'm a software dev and I want to mention one other major factor in play right now, which is the time of the year when companies hire. Most companies do not do hiring during the summer months. While the whole industry is really tough and will be for some time, the time of year still makes a huge difference. This is because managers who approve budgets are out on vacations. For those looking at the time of this posting, expect an uptick in the Fall.

[@ksg7882]

Do you think sept-oct will be peak hiring season for internships? I know that referrals does not matter a lot these days but anything that helps... I'm currently networking with meta employees and HM for a referral, waiting for their intern apps. Just applying everyday and waiting for that one shot at an interview. I pretty confident with the technical but not sure about behavioral.

[@censoredeveryday3320]

They don't hire during the hoildays either. They aren't hiring right now due to the election and they are waiting on how the markets will react. Honestly, I'm doing the same thing with my investments as well

[@ksg7882]

@censoredeveryday3320 yea it seems. But companies have been doing quite well if you saw the 2024 Fiscal Budget at Meta, Microsoft etc...I think there will be a good number of opportunities but same amount of competition since applicants who struggled getting jobs in previous year are going rollover.

[@censoredeveryday3320]

@@ksg7882 FAANG is in a category of it's own. I don't recommend working at those places tbh because the competition for jobs at those places is soul crushing, especially right now. My comment was more about midsized, small, and startup tech companies. Most having hiring freezes or still laying off people. Many are offshoring to outside of USA/Canada.

[@ryanfortner145]

@@ksg7882 September to November is when most, but not all, companies will hire for summer internships. Don't focus too much on a specific internship at a particular company. It's a numbers game, and just cast as wide of a net as possible. Good luck!

[@captnmaico6776]

Economic factors are far stronger than "AI" and always will be unless we discover true GAI (and then it does not matter anyway, because anyone can be replaced). We already can see a lot of diminishing returns from LLM scores, just take a look at the recent benchmarks between LLAMA 3.1 70B and LLAMA 3.1 405B. The difference is very small in performance, but training and cost are much much higher. The relationship is not linear and the improvemnts of LLM with transformer architecture show a clear sigmoid function. AI's effect is smaller than many think, but also bigger than some think. Human translation agents will only be necessary for obscure languages or correction, so less people will be needed. Same goes for boilerplate code, however juniors are needed in order to become seniors. Same applies to call agents etc. But interest rates, economic performance overall are 80 to 90% why hiring is bad atm, its bad in any position for some countries.

[@ksg7882]

Interest rates are at all time high in the US. And world economy revolved around US, specially in tech

[@nikhilsharma5233]

The underrated comment

[@stt.9433]

I think this is mainly a US issue because all the layoffs happened in America. In Europe, there are no mass layoffs so the market stays way more consistant throughout the years.

[@dsmogor]

I think it's because the US tech job market is at the whims of the stock market driven neurotic, hype / dépression waves, but that's the cost of staying at the edge of innovation. Europe slips further behind but on whatever is left there it's more stable. I wonder how it looks now in India and China (east Asia in general) for devs.

[@trytofindareasonwhy]

big us companies are run by mbas who love to cut costs.

[@Michael-it6gb]

I'm from Europe and there's been plenty of tech companies firing people. As well as most of them were never hiring to begin with for the past 10 years, while claiming a fake shortage of workers. It's all a big scam. And I fell for it.

[@hello_dayana]

I started applying and got an interview right away from a pretty big company. I was like “Wow! The market isn’t so bad!” I passed the technical interview and then went on to do the behavioral interview and unfortunately got rejected afterwards. :/ Didn’t land another interview since then!

[@ksg7882]

I wouldn't be able to bear that regret of getting rejected after interviews with big techs

[@gamefun2525]

@@ksg7882 failed 2 big techs one after another in 1 month. got to the offer stage of 2 decently sized startups but got ghosted. got offers from places with peanuts in increment, had to reject unfortunately.

[@BobKane-g6x]

There is an oversaturation in the market, especially in JavaScript front-end development. I’ve been searching for a year and a half with no luck.

[@ksg7882]

Front end jobs dropped almost 60% from past years... But data science jobs grew well.

[@nafisahmed6247]

why doesnt cutting costs doesn't start with the HR team first, they are the money leechers that are of no use all throughout the product/project cycle.

[@Tverse3]

because connections,you are a nobody to them.

[@nafisahmed6247]

@@Tverse3 they will become nobody soon as AI guys develop the tools needed to automate the shit they do 5 days a week. Soon they will go to the streets for loosing their job. I have absolutely no empathy for these shits who reject a CV because the job requires cpp experience and they dont find it in your resume because you wrote C++.

[@gamemoves2415]

In economics this is called a perfectly competitive market. But the characteristic of this type of market is that it will correct itself after a lot of people leave. After some years (can be one, can be ten or even twenty), the market will bounce back and lots of people will come in again because there will be lots of openings. But for now, it's going to be brutal.

[@clem]

Well said. Only time will tell.

[@never_give_up944]

Incorrect. Perfectly competitive markets have no or low barriers to entry.

[@kingxerjsaeg]

Not sure about that "perfectly competitive market" with all the outsourcing. You can hire the same experience with twice the hands for a tenth or less of the money.

[@gamemoves2415]

@@never_give_up944 there was basically no barrier to entry a few years back. What are you saying? That's why everyone came.

[@coffeebreakchat2450]

We are seeing a correction of salaries in tech matching those in manual labour & retail jobs.

[@btm1]

Agreed to almost everything you said except the part where you try to predict the future and say there will be still a lot jobs needed in the industry for a long time. That does not hold any value because nobody can predict the future in the long term.

[@censoredeveryday3320]

India, China, Mexico, Phillipines have plenty of people to do the tech jobs. Inflation has priced out most western workers from anything related to engineering unless it's for the government and secret .

[@proviste]

@@censoredeveryday3320 India, China, Mexico, Phillipines have HAD plenty of people to do the tech jobs for DECADES.

[@George-Francis]

Software engineers need to look at what Mechanical/Chemical/Electrical/Civil/Structural engineer total compensation and hiring difficulty has been 2010-2024. Then you'll feel better. The gravy train of 2010 wasn't because people deserved it for technical skill, it was because there was a shortage. Hardly anyone enrolled in C.S. in 2010. In 2024 every other smart kid I talk to is doing into C.S. It's all reversion to the mean. I wonder which field will have a shortage next.

[@shekharrajput3379]

Civil, environmental and other core engineering I believe. Also if you see if anyone in the structural engineering field has 10 years of experience then that person hold a great value. Even people who are just out from the higher schooling are taking over some CSE jobs without even holding a science degree. So basically it says people in CSE will not have there value as their experience increases, what do you think 🤔 🤔 And AI is the other thing which can code the entry level softwares 😵‍💫 not sure what would it be capable of in next 3 years down the line.

[@Toulkun]

The same way in my country there's a shortage of blue colar workers now because most of youth left for better life to EU, but now are increasing wages to attract people even with low skill level to these jobs. It's a matter of supply and demand, that's how economy works. But we have also seen decrease in enrollments for IT fields in colleges and schools here.

[@aleksandarmilosevic6395]

I'm working in EU for USA company as Full Stack Dev. When I hear how much you guys are paid in JR roles it's crazy. To be honest I would prob outsource if company was mine.

[@Dana-wz8xr]

interested to work in the EU also. can you share the company you work for?

[@janlanik2660]

Yeah, the difference between Germany and the Silicon Valley is 2.5-3x when you work for FAANG. You still make an indecent amount of money in German context though, you might even be able to finance a 30 year mortgage on a house 😂

[@masterchiff6784]

Exactly man, they get paid 2x/3x what we get paid in Europe no wonder they can't find a job lmao.

[@clintpavl]

@@masterchiff6784 cost of living is also 2x/3x more, trust me companies wouldn't pay that much if they didn't have to

[@spkim0921]

🎉 It used to be that learning html css js react and node at a 6-month bootcamp were sufficient to get hired, but nowadays I believe you need to know more computer science fundamentals such as understanding of computer architecture, operating systems, data communication and algorithm analysis and design. Network security helps, and building more complex projects (whether personal or for a company) are also important I believe. The barrier to entry definitely rose and developers, with or without prior work experience in the field, should take the time to learn computer science and build projects that are more complex than a simple CRUD app (websockets, smtp, webRTC, etc.).

[@warriordx5520]

Or the fact they want to hire a Ph.D level of skill and pay him a highschooler salary. People like you need to tell the truth instead of cheap optimism.

[@jurassicthunder]

so basically pivot to network engineering. got it lol

[@WetPig]

@@jurassicthunder Or embedded.

[@OmegaF77]

At that skill level I might as well start my own software company.

[@readdir]

@@spkim0921 CS fundamentals is NOT what companies want or else they would have retained all the leetcode code monkeys that they laid off. They would actually prefer bootcamp grads who know how to build practical projects. Even your comment contradicts itself as your examples are all practical and have nothing to do with CS.

[@MohammadAbdalrazzak]

As a computer science student who will be graduated in the next year i think i made the wrong decision sadly

[@psycongroo171]

its far better to know the truth earlier than you came to market thinking everything is perfect.

[@persiathiest1963]

where? US?

[@MohammadAbdalrazzak]

@@persiathiest1963 No, Middle East

[@MelonPython]

The problem with the job market today or in Tech is very simple. You're in a very popular industry. Usually companies only have 1 vacant position for the role. This leads to thousands of people applying to that job and hence why they just pick someone random. So if you're wondering why you aren't getting a job, just know that you're competing with thousand others. if you were to get into like construciton or become a nurse, you'd be competing with about 10 people.

[@coffeebreakchat2450]

Yep, and the supply of capable tech people goes ever up!

[@Rppiano]

🎉🎈 Its a demand and supply issue. This is a senior only market now with 8+ years experience. Starting now from scratch would be like jumping in a burning building.

[@DevonBasketball2211-xs7rm]

So as a guy first year in college for CS, what should I do lol

[@TNVR69]

​@@DevonBasketball2211-xs7rmprobably change while you can. I wish I was still in college.

[@GoonCity777]

@@DevonBasketball2211-xs7rmeasiest question ever. Still learn what you’re doing, but go to trade school. Know both. Put less emphasis on classes that are useless for the working world. Honestly, a bootcamp and a trade school is the better solution. Or college and a trade school. Trade school being truck driving or airframe/powerplant or plumbing or welding

[@kamel3d]

I think it is mostly an economy issue, not necessarily AI or companies don’t need devs. Now, money is expensive to borrow, so companies are cuting down on costs. The economy always works the same way-when money becomes cheap to borrow again, the industry will return to growth mode. I am sure there are a lot of inefficiencies in tech and in many other industries, but it is part of the game. Having a larger number of employees often attracts more investors than having fewer but more efficient ones

[@apricotmadness4850]

I completely agree with every point. It’s definitely more of a normal job, and while much harder to get into; the benefits still far outweigh those found in practically every other career.

[@Trizzi2931]

Companies are hiring but they are mostly hiring for experienced people. For new grads it’s still really hard to get into job.

[@thejoblesscoder]

Ive been out of school for 6 years and I still cant secure a long term job in the career so the only logical option is to just spend the rest of my life in school collecting credentials I guess

[@Michael-mr3ig]

@@thejoblesscoder Become a plumber or an electrician! Those look the most AI proof. You can also be your own boss. All you need to do is save up for a training course. I'm doing that now.

[@thejoblesscoder]

@@Michael-mr3ig Sure I will just do that and throw 22 years of working towards a job in tech into the trash. Be faster to literally delete myself and be reborn into the next life at that rate

[@brndnblck]

The value of a good software engineer hasn't changed. The salaries and earning potential haven't changed. What's changed is that now tech companies are no longer able to run at high loss / high burn forever, detached from reality. Most of the "magnificent 7" that run the whole market now are all big tech companies. More and more market is forcing them to justify their existence. Jobs are more competitive, but it's otherwise not fundamentally unchanged. The BootCamp coders and mid-level down will be most impacted.

[@andre-le-bone-aparte]

@14:00 - 🎉 It's the best time to start a software business (not a solo-coder) - because costs (developers) have gone down. If you have a niche software business that can run on 1 to 10 people, you can be lean and prepare for the boom times after 4 more years. Similar to 2007-08 "Financial Crash" - it took about 4 years (2010 to 2012) for things to really ramp up again!

[@Macatho]

True so true. Now is the time to start a company, in 3-4 years money will be cheap again and then your evaluation will sky rocket. Though the coming 2-3 years are going to be rough.

[@jez9999]

You don't just "start a software business", you need some kind of USP and some way to make money.

[@andre-le-bone-aparte]

@@jez9999 #microSaaS

[@lincolnmcloud8460]

🎉 The beginning is so bleak that it’s funny; but I think it’s also important to hear because a lot of people get into this industry just for the money. It’s definitely a reality check.

[@slunkmiester]

This is one of the most cohesive pieces I've seen on this topic. Just landed a new job a few weeks ago after wondering what was going on in the market, very different from the covid hiring boom I experienced a few years ago. Low Interest Rates: "free" money to grow your company, High Interest Rates: growth is more expensive --> less overall hiring, experience is a safer bet on hiring candidate's success

[@ericnunez984]

They won't get rid of all software engineers, but they will definitely get rid of most that you consider a "software engineer", the role will change and become more high level

[@kevinstefanov2841]

Everyone picked the low-hanging fruit of Web Development, that's why this tech-job-pocalypse happened. On the job, I regularly write C, C++, Assembly Language and other systems-oriented languages and not only have I never been out of a job, when I did change jobs in 2022, the very first company I applied to took me within a week (operating systems dev), on top of all this, I've had even more job offers that I've rejected while already being employed. I have less than 5 years of experience, not a senior dev either. The grass is greener in system software - virtual machines, compilers, operating systems, graphics engines, embedded systems, etc.

[@Tanjino2]

Don’t you have to be a Computer Engineering / Electrical major to successfully land those jobs?

[@kevinstefanov2841]

@@Tanjino2 No, i graduated computer science and what's more, they never even taught us C, i learnt all low level programming by myself

[@absolute___zero]

Assembly is currently very required for writing GPU kernels. Imagine you write an algorithm in python (Tensor flow) for a cluster of GPUs worth 100K. They run your algorithm for months and complain it is too slow. Now, imagine you rewrite this algorithm in say RNA3 assembly (or say PTX for NVidia) you would speed it up 3x , so instead of spending 100K on GPU hardware they would only spend 30K, do you think they would hire you? Of course! Software engineering is not about coding , it is about applying technology to provide benefits for your users.

[@diamondbeats2024]

im exactly 22 days into studying. how do i study what you do? can we chat? id like to switch and do this then before i even lose faith in swe. system software....id like to always have a job!!!!!

[@kevinstefanov2841]

@@diamondbeats2024 Are you on discord?

[@robfielding8566]

i lost my job last year, that i had been in for 8 years; i was a super-star when we were building the foundations of the startup. my only goal is to get my daughter through 3 more years of college. now my health is falling apart. i am going blind. i now feel like dumping my 401k into my daughter's account, and disappearing. i can't afford to do both; and i feel like i got moved into a death-march project.

[@Zer0ultimas]

things can get tuff my friend, but there is always a way. its not gonna be easy but thats how we grow as persons, keep it up dont lose it and you will see a path in front of you at some point!

[@manyes7577]

go serving table and drive uber. tons of jobs there.

[@amitpadgaonkar8830]

@@manyes7577 Please don't insult someone in case you can't help.

[@robfielding8566]

@@manyes7577 i did get another tech job in two months. but being diabetic, my health insurance is very costly. i was on my wife's health insurance for a few weeks, and it ate half of her income. i would literally die in a physically taxing job. if i can't make enough to send my daughter through college; then my life is totally over. i don't need a super-high paying tech job, but it's probably the only one i can actually do.

[@robfielding8566]

@@manyes7577 i probably can't do an uber, because i got major vision issues. $6k/yr for car insurance already.

[@kevian7781]

I've lived in silicon valley for the past 15 years and have seen the demographics completely change to H1B land, and most of it Indian IT workers. The problem right now is that they occupy so many key hiring positions and they almost always go for their Indian compatriots when interviewing. It's very sad to see this type of discrimination...in addition to all the H1Bs, companies are outsourcing like crazy so good luck finding a job in software.

[@avery_IO]

🥳 i have a parasocial relationship here, and i have liked your videos for years and years. Through school, and through all the recent eras of the software job market. 😄 Coming out and saying all of this while it may not be the best possible marketing for your business - huge respect. I really appreciate you coming on here and "talking to us like adults." For real. As dumb as it sounds in a youtube comment section, thanks for making and posting this one. you look and sound so mature compared to when i first found your channel haha. in a good way! have a great day clem.

[@clem]

Haha, I'm glad you enjoyed the video; thanks for this comment!

[@janine_codes]

Did a career change into software engineering almost 6 years ago and it’s definitely tough out there atm but I’m still so grateful I made the change! Thank you for your honest thoughts and I agree completely with what you said 🎉💗

[@itskittyme]

For the ones who love coding, love software engineering, this is the most beautiful era to transform into. I personally have had the most fun coding in the past 1.5 years than I've ever had before. For the ones who are just in it for the money, yeah, that's not gonna work.

[@thejoblesscoder]

I eat sleep, breath and live coding. It's all I care about but because I can't secure a job anywhere doing anything for anyone for any amount of pay I'm suicidal AF every day and am ready for life to just end at the age of 27

[@ronsn8071]

I was looking for such comment :D

[@dsfarag]

Great take on this. I anticipate an improving market soon. Things fluctuate, hence the term "cyclical market".

[@jackblack1801]

keep dreaming. The market is never ever coming back. Software engineering as we know it is dead

[@Qosm0s]

Anyone saying AI will replace programmers have no idea how software enginnering actually works.

[@JakeCollinge]

and if it HALVES the size of a team, giving those left larger workloads, will you say the same? Company saves money...same work volume gets done...they don't need to ramp staff and spend the savings

[@mikeb6383]

One thing I don't understand is, why is the 'obsession' around programmers? If AI will ever get so good to replace programmers, then other easier office jobs are more than cooked.

[@hanchi8710]

@@JakeCollinge very good point. The 10x engineers along with ai will flourish

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

@@mikeb6383 well, my line of reasoning is that we programmers have tons of data already digital. Mainly code but also documentation and story descriptions and tests. I know I know, those laast ones more often than not are not in a good enough state to actually have AI learn from that but still, its more than in some other. But maybe I am off on that entirely. Problem with good AI is that you have to work very closely with the other industries. I guess that goes for everything software-related but especially AI.

[@shawnfromportland]

ai will replace programmers. I've been a programmer since the 90s.

[@lewisburton1852]

I became a business owner first and then learned programming, a journey I’m still on. The value I’ve been able to bring to my businesses through my tech skills is incredible. If I can do this, I can only imagine what people far more skilled than me can achieve. Stop waiting for opportunities-create them! There are so many industries untouched by technology where you can be both a business owner and a tech innovator. Seize the opportunity and make it happen!

[@daljitgill7030]

What sort of business?

[@jez9999]

Name a business that's untouched by tech. As far as I can tell, everyone's done everything already.

[@lewisburton1852]

@@jez9999

[@lewisburton1852]

@@jez9999 People often overlook the potential of their local markets, focusing too much on building the next unicorn startup. There’s an entire economy right in their area. Take cleaning businesses, for example-many don’t even have a decent, converting website. The same goes for plumbing, construction, and other service-based businesses. With the right mix of tech optimization and sound business principles, these local businesses can thrive and be just as profitable as the roles software engineers are chasing. Plus, they offer more freedom. If I can make it work, I know others can too.

[@OEFTF11]

@@jez9999 He's just self flagellating pointlessly, ignore him, I can guarantee you that there are literally zero industries in the Western world untouched by technology. Guy's an idiot and probably doesn't have a business either.

[@emirrozerr]

The most undeniable truth in this video is that 'Software Engineering' has become just another regular job. It’s not the super high-paying, chill, and cool gig as it used to be during the pandemic and before.

[@edward-f9b3p]

Its a lot more than just interest rates. PC sales are falling since covid so if you're a Windows developer there's nothing much there. Sames of mobiles have also peaked. The industry in the US in particular is highly fad driven. Once a successful market is found companies pile on it, when it levels out everyone rushes for the exits. Its 100% per year or out the door. The current fad is AI, so many companies have cancelled graduate recruitment in the expectation that they won't be needed. Less programmers means less new programs and so the demand for them falls, its a vicious cycle. Game developers are all rushing for the exits even though actual sales are still rising, they're just not rising as fast as investors demand. Its like the videogame crash of the 1980s.

[@rszollosi92]

IT needed this purge. I know I'll be hated for this comment, but there are so many people who were hired in the last five years who have nothing to do with this industry and know barely enough to do the job properly. They don't know the basics, nothing about data structures, algorithms and so on, they can't think about problems at different levels of abstraction, and so on. This industry, this profession is HARD. I'd say that in some positions, it's even harder than law or other demanding professions. It was absurd how many unqualified people made so much with such a small amount of skill and knowledge. If you're good, you will have a job, if you're not, then learn and improve. As it told in the video, control what you can and be GOOD.

[@joehavermann7729]

I could buy this comment if the executive suites were also purged. Some developers are incompetent, sure. But in my experience, upper managers are a 1000x more likely to contribute nothing. I could regale you for hours about my personal encounters with the depths of their stupidity.

[@RSKriegs]

I know it's a YT movie of a guy who's into algorithms, but requirement for A&DS knowledge is insanely overrated. Yeah, I think everyone in IT should know what big O notation is, some basic algorithms, but the prevalence of algorithms across interviewing is bollocks.

[@SchachKartoffel]

@joehavermann7729 you are definitely right! and it's the managers who hire incompetent coders in the first place. why? they usually don't have a clue about what the company they work for really does except for those managers who ascended from the pool of engineers. the business people never fully get what the company is about.

[@nolimitsREAL]

It’s not about the hate, it is what you are saying is stupid.

[@andreypopov6166]

nowadays devs. practicing DSA all the time, despite the fact they do not need it in first place(mostly), just to pass an interview. So i am not sure they do not know the basics. What i see is that because of leetcode many devs know how to invert a binary tree (if they have been preparing for it recently :)))) ) but dont know nothing about how to write readable, maintainable code which doesnt have many things in common with deep knowledge of DSA.

[@beaticulous]

Here's a strategy for 2025 and forward: - Become an underpaid senior software developer. Hey, it's still good pay and work life balance is awesome. - Never ask for a raise. Take what they offer. Let them decide. - Switch if you can get better things to do by that. Don't think about the money. - Nag about not having a "tech lead" or some other kind of middle manager... and when they hire one... you're protected. The useless middle-manager will be the first to go when SHTF. - AI threat is BS. More code is just more liability. People will burnout even faster in the future. For younger people: - You need to do a ton of sh!t. You need to first amaze yourself before you can do it to others. - Forget FANGs. Look for smaller companies. OR: - Forget what I just wrote and take the Lottery ticket of Making Games. Eat noodles and crunch on.

[@Qosm0s]

It was much worse as an IT consultant, programmer, in 2001-2002 during the IT-bubble. It was impossible to get a job. People laughed at you if you mentioned you were into software engineering. Back then I went back to University and finished my computer science degree instead of trying to find a new job. I recommend the same to junior colleges.

[@juliet_burke]

How long did it take an it job market to recover back then?

[@Qosm0s]

@@juliet_burke 2-3 years I would say. I was hired back in 2005 after finishing the exam.

[@lycan2494]

Your new hairstyle actually suit you 😆more mature or experienced looking

[@clem]

Haha, thanks! 😎

[@lionjark]

I agree but only partially. Since it's tougher than before to be hired as a SWE, you should only commit to it if you're truly interested in this line of work, otherwise you're just wasting your time , effort and money to whatever bootcamp or learning website (wink wink).

[@clem]

Fair enough!

[@colinrickels201]

Senior Apple engineer here. Anyone like this that tries to convince you that a 120-300k salary band is “easy entry” is selling snake oil. These interviews require a decade of knowledge that can’t be accumulated by simply doing the job. You have to be habitually inquisitive, you have to be studious, it takes sacrifice and a lot of experience. You have to know multiple languages well enough to know which is righ for the job at hand. You need to understand system design not just in theory but in practice and be able to solve complex problems on the fly. The leetcode solutions might not translate directly to the work but the need to think critically does. Having done this long enough, you come to understand how cyclical trends are and are able to determine what is a distraction and what is and opportunity. Time and effort lend the dev to implement different patterns, use different design paradigms and understand what works best. I won’t even discuss database needs of a senior engineer. Anyone that says 4 yoe is senior does not understand, simply put. Love the platform this guys created but his opinions so flawed. This work takes serious grind

[@diamondbeats2024]

what should i do ? i spent 2k on a course to teach me html, css, and js. but im so defeated watching youtube videos. everything is saying theres no jobs in this . i dont want to waste years of my life and not even be able to get a job... the bootcamp advertising makes it seem so possible.....but nothing on youtube makes it seem possible, without 2 degrees ...maybe.

[@trip_t2122]

Sir if you could just help me out. Even as a mentor, that would go a long way. I'm 2 years into learning software engineering and I'm about to transition into back-end.

[@RJRobinsonX]

Just my thoughts. AI will be a tool, just like syntax highlighting. And once the tooling gets better, it will simply augment software engineers. No need for fear mongering. I hope that Im right, but there is a chance that could be wrong. However... function qaplaHochbe'(ghojmeH, ghoj, Hoch) { var qaplaH = (ghojmeH & ghoj) | (Hoch ^ ghoj); var Hochbe' = (ghoj & Hoch) | (ghojmeH ^ Hoch); var ghojmoH = (ghojmeH & Hoch) | (ghoj ^ ghojmeH); return (qaplaH ^ Hochbe' ^ ghojmoH) & (ghojmeH | ghoj | Hoch); } function batlhQapla'(batlh) { var qapla' = qaplaHochbe'(batlh, batlh >> 2, batlh 3); } function batlhQaplaHoch() { var batlhHochmeH = 0; for (var batlhHochHoch = 0; batlhHochHoch < 10; batlhHochHoch++) { batlhHochmeH ^= batlhQapla'(batlhHochHoch); batlhHochmeH = (batlhHochmeH > 31); } return batlhHochmeH; } You still have to understand the code to be able to get it to do what you want. And if you cant work with Klingon TypeScript, there will still be a need for SWEs.

[@warrenarnoldmusic]

Is this the mystical Linux kernel code!?!?😮

[@shaikhhar6911]

Yeah, but not as many developers are required anymore because of AI

[@apricotmadness4850]

@@shaikhhar6911 At what company?

[@nosam1998]

@@shaikhhar6911 I disagree. If anything, business people will finally be happy that we can deliver quicker and on time. The running joke is that when the boss asks for an estimate, it's always going to be wrong (not by a small amount, either). This is, of course, the best-case scenario for AI to reach its potential. My hypothesis is big tech has backed itself into a corner, and it knows this won't pay off, just like every other boom and bust cycle. However, stock prices are going up, and they can just lay off more devs to keep going. Lots of money has poured into AI, and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if people think, "It just needs a little bit more time to get there!" because once investors say, "Times up! We want results!" that's it. Sure, it's a cool thing that seems to add value to mundane tasks and can solve a few publicized coding problems. But that's not enough for investors to get their ROI, and they aren't going to be happy. My prediction is as simple as this. The investors will start to slow their roll as they still aren't seeing results that can get them their ROI, and tech stocks will subsequently crash. This won't be good, as the rest of the market tends to follow when this happens. Plus, everyone (not just tech, I mean anyone with a retirement account, savings, etc.) will see a massive hit to their assets as we're all exposed to tech either through index funds or other adjacent industries. Take a look at the S&P500 and how much of it is only a few tech companies. I'm a SWE and I'm just trying to see this from a realistic POV. History has shown that things like this get overhyped, and settle down or even crash. That doesn't mean AI is bad or a failure. Just like VR and blockchain are both still around and have their place, it's going to be the same thing with AI (LLMs). They'll be used for what they're built for "Language," not "The Keurig Coffee maker shown at CES that claimed to have AI inside (LOL)." One thing is clear as day, though, in my opinion: AI *HAS* passed the Turing test. People have even been fired for thinking AI is sentient. Also, can we PLEASE STOP saying "AI" and say "LLMs"?! AI has actual use cases, including in the medical field, but whenever we hear "AI" these days, it's 99% going to be "LLMs" that they're referring to.

[@haha7836hahah]

Try graduating in 2023 and 2024😂. Atleast seniors have their experience as their badge

[@simonebilla4126]

Try graduating in 2027 lol

[@JegErN0rsk]

@@simonebilla4126 you will likely be better off than the gratuates of 23, 24 and 25

[@UberEverywhereSKRT]

@@simonebilla4126 just switch major wtf u doing.. i dont understand people seeing a wall a head of them but just pushing on the gas

[@thejoblesscoder]

@@UberEverywhereSKRT and for the people who got into it for passion and not just a paycheck? I guess we arent allowed to live our perfect happy lives. Throw our dreams into the dump and walk away?

[@UberEverywhereSKRT]

@@thejoblesscoder life is not happy land, goota make compromises.. but yeah u can be a artist and live by ur passion but dont feel entitled to life, it can be cruel. Some people starve yet you expect a "perfect happy life" ..

[@ultimaz100]

Despite outsourcing hundreds of thousands of software engineering jobs to underqualified workers in India, many highly skilled U.S. engineers remain jobless for years.

[@zb2747]

IMO the market is just more competitive. There will always be a place for someone for a particular job. My advice is too market yourself, have great projects, and go above and beyond in regards to applying to jobs. For instance, don't just apply but submit a cover letter, reach out to the recruiter, or better yet call them. This field is interesting because it is ALWAYS changing. Just stay positive and ask yourself would I hire me based on my skills? Also, reach out to other devs - sometimes it's about who you know vs what you know

[@clem]

Good advice!

[@squirrel1620]

Many developers are extremely talented, but lack the ability to market themselves. On the other side of that, there are lots of devs who market themselves really well, but are just lying about their experience. It's a huge waste of time. My company hired a guy who worked for Google but lied about his SQL DB experience and could not perform his job duties. He lasted about 3 months

[@sen5106]

@@squirrel1620 Same here. I never rely solely on someone's experience written on some paper called CV. Simply having a genuine conversation and see how the candidate approach and solve a given problem tells a f*ck tons of thing rather than not-confirmed experience.

[@alexdomin2986]

When you got to the part about pockets of industries doing well; I'm a SWE at a mental health company and business has been really good for us (obviously with all of the chaos in the world). I think there will ALWAYS be a need for devs in various capacities to perform and oversee business processes in any vertical. Especially one that people actually need like health care or mental health care. Regarding AI, I could go on a very long winded rant about it not replacing SWE but tldr: if we go, LOTS of corporate jobs go. It's not about the work it can perform. It's about it's ability to construct and accurately work within large and complex models of the world around it (for which we need artificial general intelligence) and it's absolutely nowhere near that ATM.

[@MetricMelon]

as someone who is graduating my computer science degree at the end of the year, this is all terrifying. When I started the degree in 2020 a lot of people made it sound like a guaranteed opportunity to get a high paying job once graduated. With how the markets been looking, I'm worried if I'll ever get a software engineering job.

[@DevonBasketball2211-xs7rm]

I’m going to be graduating 2028-2029… do you think the market would change by then?

[@MetricMelon]

@@DevonBasketball2211-xs7rm I want to say yes, but honestly I have no way of knowing. I'm just trying to remain optimistic

[@lilbank2521]

Same bro I started college this year and majored in comp sci but switched to engineering with a minor in business. It was either business, medicine, or comp sci. Which is crazy because each one of those industries has their own issues with employment rn. So I think it’s just the economy itself tbh

[@ricardocastelbon3964]

I finished my full stack developer program in june 2023 at the same time working in a restaurant, I didn't get a single interview in 8 months. After getting a promotion to restautant manager I stopped searching. Looking at the actual market, if I got a junior developer job tomorrow I would get 1000€ less per month of my actual salary. No, thank you.

[@danielsameh8873]

As a computer science student in egypt I need alot of advice on how to become market qualified, should I focus on problem solving(codeforces and leetcode) and to what extent and should I focus on technology and what are the most wanted fields right now in the market... (I have too many questions 😭😂) It would be great to do a video talking about this.

[@gustavstreicher4867]

It all depends on where you are trying to get a job, which is most likely right where you are at (Egypt). The chances of getting a job overseas is much harder than universities make it sound. A lot of countries purposefully make it hard for employers in those countries to hire foreigners. If you already have 4 years of experience (actual professional experience, not tinkering or university time), the chances of being able to migrate to another country (usually with a sponsored work VISA) increases significantly. This means you are most likely going to get your first years of experience right in Egypt, unless you find some miraculous way to go straight overseas. This is usuall reserved for kids who's parents have some serious contacts and wealth, or if you are some super genius that manages to get sponsored or poached by a big company like Google. My advice would be to just land your first junior developer job. Whilst interviewing for this job, continue learning and making digital notes of what you are learning (because you will forget). What should you learn? Whatever is next. This could be learning HTML, CSS, and JavaScript (and maybe a framework like Svelte or React) if you are intending to enter into the web development space. If you aready know those, then start learning a backend language. If you already know one, start learning how to setup an API with that language. If you can do that, start learning how to setup servers (the best place to start is to learn Linux). If you can already setup a Linux server, learn computer networking (IP addresses, ports, sockets, subnets, etc.) and how to inspect and configure networks. If you can do that, learn how to host your own services (locally and on the cloud). If you know these, start learning about security how to secure your services (SSH, TLS, UFW, fail2ban, etc.) Other things you'll need to learn as well is how to setup and configure a database. The most used ones are relational (and they use some variant of SQL). Start there. You need to know how to install it, configure it, and query it. SQL by itself is not enough. This is all easier to do if you already know Linux. At the end of the day, you are hired as a problem solver that happens to use code and code frameworks to solve those problems. Become extremely good at both. Ideally, you're first employer will have other mid-level or senior developers that take the brunt of this responsibility, giving you more freedom to learn on the job.

[@unclejoe6822]

youre cooked LOL

[@danielsameh8873]

@@unclejoe6822 Right? 😂😂 but for the bright side, I'm one of the top 10 on my batch and I have a very high gpa 😅

[@GoonCity777]

@@danielsameh8873go to both trade school and continue computer science. Trade school consisting of welding, airframe/powerplant, plumbing, truck driving. Insulate yourself in both cyclical waves. Don’t just rely on computer science to take you through life. Maybe trade school after college. Or bootcamp + trade school.

[@KagayaitaTamashi]

I'm not a software engineer, but everything you said is 100% applicable to the animation industry right now. You're right about just worrying about what you can control, becoming the best candidate you can be, and just trying to snag the few jobs that are open. Thanks for the motivation

[@tripnils7535]

Got my first swe job 6 months ago and I am happy as a pudding, even survived a layoff round in may. There are entry level jobs out there but it definitely helps when you know someone at a company which hires.