My Honest Thoughts on Wilsons' Spanking Scandal

Nancy Wilson, wife of Doug Wilson, has received a lot of scrutiny over a viral clip depicting her spanking philosophy. It is abuse? And the Wilson kids took to streaming today to do clean-up, but some significant issues came up while they tried to explain things away.
#dougwilson #noquarternovember #parenting
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[@MrsCreole]

Hi Dean, hi fam. I have a prayer request in case anyone sees this comment. My mother in law died very unexpectedly 2 nights ago and my family needs prayer right now. Thanks yall ❤

[@Underdogtheology]

Oh no! I’ll definitely be praying. And I’ll pin this comment so others see it too.

[@MrsCreole]

@@Underdogtheology thanks Dean

[@ThisisPam]

Praying

[@MrsCreole]

@@ThisisPam ❤️

[@geographicaloddity2]

🙏

[@DCard-yw6ml]

I am from Vietnam. We don't spank in Vietnam and most kids turn out very well.

[@ArugaPH]

Are you a christian? Are your kids in a communist run school?

[@SleepyAnkners-ns3pk]

I was raised that spanking is good and they would have fully supported what Nancy said here. We did the same style of punishment with our son for the first 8 years. We've now apologized and are 2 years in to learning to discipline without spanking

[@nathanhimbeault8433]

And where did you learn about this being a sin? Did God tell you this in His Word? Or did you hear it in a pop psychology class?

[@SleepyAnkners-ns3pk]

@@nathanhimbeault8433 in God's Word actually. He commands us not to provoke our children to anger and spanking my son was absolutely doing that. We are also commanded to do unto others as we would have them do to us and to treat people with kindness, hitting someone isn't kind. Not to mention spanking isn't supported in the Bible. And even when someone believes it is I haven't seen them do it in the way the Bible prescribes (for instance a rod on the back) which is good, especially since that particular passage wasn't referring to a child as I recall it referred to a young man.

[@ryangallmeier6647]

@@SleepyAnkners-ns3pk wrote, "... spanking isn't supported in the Bible..." Prov. 13:24, "Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." Discernment is the key. Knowing when it's necessary, and when it's clearly NOT!

[@thomasprice3667]

⁠@@SleepyAnkners-ns3pk unfortunately you're misunderstanding the context of that passage in order to say spanking is wrong. Paul is telling us to not be overbearing constantly correcting every little thing. Think about it, By your understanding of the passage, you could never discipline your children because it will provoke your children to anger, even without spanking. Spanking is a wonderful tool when used with wisdom.

[@SleepyAnkners-ns3pk]

@@thomasprice3667 I understand what you mean. Obviously I disagree but I used to be a vehement spanking advocate so I understand that no matter how many Biblical arguments I present, you are likely to believe that I am not properly applying Scripture (although I would probably feel the same about you) so I have no desire to debate it. I was simply sharing my experience and what I had learned. I hope you have a very merry Christmas!

[@ThisisPam]

I was raised this way, though not as harsh. The impetus for spanking is always about how behaviour makes the PARENT feel, not about what the child did. The main focus in these people and their circles is keeping up perfect appearances.

[@Wren_Farthing]

I was thinking the same thing. Spanking is usually a quicker path to behavior modification. With other disciplinary methods, you're playing the "long game," which is inconvenient when you need to advertise a charming family with cheerful, obedient children.

[@carolinepersonius4664]

And also, thank you for talking about stuff like this and being consistent in standing up for treating everyone well, especially women and children. It’s sadly lacking in a lot of the church today.

[@dawnzimmerman6818]

Another example of heavy handedness in parenting… So unnecessary😢

[@ebullock1000]

Do they ever not talk in sarcasm? Rachel is the same one that tells women to get a grip and not be emotional… It runs deep.

[@tinajacobs8068]

It wasn't about Nancy needing a "hooray" that she walked in. Nancy's kids love her and always have. She has great kids and grandkids. This is not abuse. I wish more parents would help their kids understand the world is not about them always getting their way. I love that she doesn't put kids "away" in time out. Time out is abusive. It trains kids "your bad, go away from everyone and be all alone over there". Spanking in training is a consequence that helps create a conscience and deals with the situation quickly and it's over. No separation from the parent that loves them. Nancy is not talking about abuse. Abuse is when a parent acts out in anger/emotions and is excessive. She is talking about disciplining a child in self-control. Again, hats off to her! Lord knows kids need more of this today. Loving parents giving spankings to teach, not relieve anger.

[@ameliacoburn4787]

I seriously hope you re-examine your parenting. The Wilson's (like the Pearl's) parenting advice is over the top and borderline abusive (at best). (And p.s. I do agree with spanking done correctly.) Time-out is abusive? Are you serious????

[@unapologeticbeliever]

My parents whipped us. We were raised IBLP and my parents were new converts. I have memories of literal terror, they were chasing me around the house and I was trying to hide...I don't know what that one was for. Another time I got spanked (these were close to beatings) for not saying "hi" to a stranger at my mom's friend's house. I think I was four or five. Apparently I embarrassed my mother. My poor parents have since asked both my sibling and I for forgiveness. It is one of their biggest regrets. I feel they were more indoctrinated in the 'cult' of IBLP than my sibling and I. I completely forgive them, but I am traumatized. (I know they are, too)

[@Wren_Farthing]

How wonderful that they realized the harm they did and apologized! I'm glad you were able to be gracious with them, and I hope you've been able to heal.

[@unapologeticbeliever]

@@Wren_Farthing honestly my heart aches for my parents! They were in their early twenties and wanted to please Jesus!!! They just did what they were told. They still feel so badly about it: unnecessarily!

[@Wren_Farthing]

​@@unapologeticbeliever I experienced far less than what you described with parents who were similarly trying to do the right thing. I was a sensitive kid who would crumble under a stern look, so a spanking was devastating to me. I didn't get many of them, since I was keen on avoiding them at all costs, but it led to some unhealthy hyper-vigilance. That's low-level trauma compared to what others have experienced, but it sure changed my views on corporal punishment.

[@ThisisPam]

I’m so sorry. Thank you for sharing your experience. ❤❤

[@Underdogtheology]

I’m glad they apologized.

[@heyyou9839]

So disgusting and abusive thank you for calling out this horrendous child violence

[@maemiller5746]

I am a survivor of child abuse. I put on a smile many, many, many days. No one know the extent of the abuse. Not even my grandparents who lived next door. The conversation the family was having is not helpful for victims.

[@ThisisPam]

❤❤

[@bykes187]

Wild that Doug says the key to separate an abusive family from non is whether or not they’re smiling and laughing together when LITERALLY the thing Nancy spanked Rachel for was not being happy and excited to see her! They are trained at point of pain to display or even to feel (on the surface) pleasure and fun with their parents - how do they not see the absurdity??

[@lornadoone8887]

BINGO! This mentality is not only absurd, it is satanic.

[@Middleagedmutantninjaturtle]

Not surprised they hit their kids into submission. They're such arrogant people.

[@reformedpilgrim]

The Wilsons put a heavy importance on cheerfulness. But I think of Jesus’ parable of the two sons. One son said he’d obey but didn’t. The other son said he would not obey, but did. Jesus said the second son did the Father’s will. If a child is disappointed about playtime being over, but comes away with the parent anyway, is that not obedience?

[@Wren_Farthing]

I had the same thought. There is a lot in the Wilsons' teachings that centers on cheerfulness, and while they work hard at differentiating themselves from the IBLP folks, this stands out to me as a way they are similar.

[@ameliacoburn4787]

Great point!!!!! I also thought that she was disciplining a child for a non-obedience issue.... so not appropriate.

[@rubenthompson5900]

It is disobedience because Colossians 3:23 says “Whatever you do, do it cheerfully as unto the Lord and not unto man

[@carolinepersonius4664]

31:06 Was raised with the motto that obedience is doing “what we say, when we say, and with a happy heart” in a home that relied heavily on spanking (for not “obeying”…with a happy heart). And we also laughed. Just because we had good times doesn’t mean we’re not also spending some years in therapy unlearning emotional suppression and a lot of baggage that came with fundamentalism. Harvard has some good published studies on the longterm effect of spanking, and you guessed it, ultimately it’s just not very effective in addition to having serious emotional consequences.

[@d.b.624]

"Happy heart"...don't remind me. Bad memories of having that laid on me by authoritarians who couldn't stand that I merely complied with them. Not enough to get things done, AESTHETICS must be maintained. When I joined the military, I felt so much freer (Lots of arbitrary rules, but no one cares if your heart is happy, or even sober).

[@DCard-yw6ml]

I love your channel. What you say in your channel is often insightful. I hope the Wilson followers will listen to your channel.

[@sampaigemusic]

Everything she’s saying is 100% Gothard influenced

[@lornadoone8887]

Bill Gothard, Scripture twister extraordinaire and creepy sexual predator covering up for his equally creepy sexual predator brother. This evil Gothard system also created the Josh Duggars of this world.

[@sampaigemusic]

You don’t need to know someone’s heart to be able to recognize if something they’ve said is wrong or not

[@Star-dj1kw]

That clip is outrageous on multiple levels. For one, it is developmentally inappropriate to expect a preschooler to even REMEMBER his/her response to mommy 20ish minutes later when the spanking is being administered. What happened to swift justice? But really, since when is parenting a popularity contest? This lady’s ego is just TOO FRAGILE; she’s gotta be propped up by her kid 🤮. Enmeshment 👎🏼this kid’s gonna need THERAPY.

[@ebullock1000]

This kid is now telling women to stop being emotional and do this same thing to your kids.

[@Star-dj1kw]

@@ebullock1000 GENERATIONAL crazies don’t fall far from the tree 🌳

[@Ashley_jd]

Re this spanking issue - My brother and I were spanked as a kid with belts - my dad was the disciplinarian and it seriously affected my relationship with him - I think my body associated dad with pain. At 30 I still flinch when he tries to give me a hug or show physical affection, and hearing the clinking of a belt or seeing a man remove a belt still makes my body tense up like a spring. My dad is a great dad and I don’t blame either of my parents for it - both of them were spanked probably worse growing up in the 70s - it was all they knew. But at this point there is so much empirical research showing that it has serious negative effects on kids over time I find it hard to hear parents and others defending it today. Re her needing her kid to get excited when she comes into a room like she’s santa claus is ridiculous - how insecure a person do you have to be to need validation from your child?!

[@dawnzimmerman6818]

Thanks for calling this out as manipulation

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks Dawn!

[@r.j.miller]

I think the scariest part to me of Moscow is how “close” to the Mormon last days and proper movement in Rexburg ID that has 2 people on trial for murder of lots of people. The more I learn about Moscow the closer to Mormon it gets.

[@lornadoone8887]

There is a really beautiful true story from the life of St. Nektarios of Aegina, who was a slandered Bishop in the 19th century Greek Orthodox Church. A very godly, humble and gifted Bishop, he was was forced to take a job as a school headmaster because of the slander of envious peers (from which he was eventually exonerated) which left him without a diocese or means of making a living in his ordained office. Two of his students were caught fighting and brought to him for discipline. The discipline he imposed was three days of no food-for himself! and extra prayers. The boys were deeply convicted by his grace and humility of taking all responsibility for their bad behavior on himself and they quickly mended their ways despite receiving no punishment themselves. This is the true grace of the gospel at work. This is how it is done.

[@crueltyfreemusings1696]

I was spanked as a child, did not experience it as abusive and am not philosophically opposed to it (though I do think it depends on the child). My reaction to that first story, though, was, dang, that seems not okay.

[@granthooper4264]

spanking absolutely works....just not like this. spanking is reserved for blatant defiance. it is rare. and it is never fun, or in anger. i dislike doing it very much. mostly firm voice, timeout, removal of privilege's. i only had to spank a few times for a few month while spending time with her afterwards and explaining and loving her..... and the behavior was night and day. in this case, yes doesnt work. i believe when done properly you shouldnt have to do it but a handful of times, then never again

[@BillWalkerWarren]

That’s a good and tough subject. I do think it’s a more cultural thing than a religious or fundamentalist thing. I was raised in the 60s to the early 80s . My dad did spank me once . It was after I went into mom and dad’s room and touched his revolver. He caught me and sent me to my room and was told to think about what I had done and after 30 minutes I received a talking to and got two or three swats . I wasn’t raised in a Christian household, I did receive more swats in school than ever at home . The mindset back then was very different. Most people would say spare the rod and spoil the child. I don’t swat my kids for one thing they are girls, and second I think sending them to their room and asking them to think about what they had done and then after a few minutes talk about what happened and what the consequences are for their actions. Can have a better effect. Usually it’s added chores or loss of privileges. Is what results. One funny thing my youngest has a bit of a rebel streak. She once said that the only reason her mother and I give her things is so we can take them away when we want to punish her . I had to leave the room immediately, as not to laugh at her comment. Good video Dean, hard topic Prayers always

[@Wren_Farthing]

I am on the same page as the anti-spankers. That said, I am willing to give Nancy Wilson- all the Wilsons- the benefit of the doubt that she wasn't acting out of personal hurt in that particular situation. What I take issue with is the broader agenda of controlling emotions. "Control" is a loaded word. There is a difference between teaching our children how to navigate their emotions vs. punishing a child when he/she displays an inconvenient emotion. That punitive response puts the parent in control of the child's emotions. It doesn't teach children how to parse through what they're feeling, how their emotions may affect others...lessons that give children agency, but also personal responsibility for how they behave while they are experiencing complex emotions. I have a feeling this "controlling emotions" teaching has a lot to do with optics for the Wilsons. Their children need to be seen as the best behaved, so as not to spoil the brand. The world must see that the way they do things is "working." I realize that's not all it's about, but I bet it figures in.

[@d.b.624]

Hitting one's children out of sociopathic "the rules say so" duty is even worse than hitting them out of anger; in the second case, there's a chance the abuser may realize their behavior is wrong.

[@thomasgolden4537]

Dean there are so many reasons you and I should be friends in real life. The bourbon seals it. Thanks for all you do on this channel!

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks man!!!!

[@joeyrose1245]

I like your take on this. I like how you keep it real. Doug Wilson is what I call the “Cult Leader.” I heard he and Webbon talk about their Christian nationalism and how they thought blasphemy laws would be cool and such. They both snickered about it. It’s really a shame because Joel Webbon is a really smart guy and has great potential but having Doug Wilson as his mentor is not doing him any good.

[@barbshuster7954]

Bad mom, bad parenting! Brain washed and controlling in the worst way!

[@lornadoone8887]

Rachel Wilson’s approach to discipline reminds me of the Delores Umbridge character in the Harry Potter series. These are very twisted, wicked people.

[@marchosch3876]

I'm not against spanking per se, but this does not look good. To give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe there's more to this story than she told, and she left out the context. It reminds me of the old Joel Webbon clip where he said he tells his kids when to go to the bathroom with no context whatsoever, then follows-up with a clip the next day and says "guys, they're toddlers". We had absolutely no way of knowing that!

[@donnaoscolaighlange]

Read about Debi and Michael Pearl’s legacy on disciplining!

[@unapologeticbeliever]

Absolutely horrifying. Breaks my heart.

[@Underdogtheology]

Uh oh

[@andyz3225]

My folks had multiple copies of "To Train Up a Child" and followed its methods. This was long before we got sucked into the CREC/DW cult.

[@lornadoone8887]

⁠@@andyz3225Sincerest condolences! Heartbreaking…

[@turbofun998]

The headline pic for the event is the kids and their father holding a flamethrower. That’s not threatening in any manner 🙄

[@ameliacoburn4787]

The Wilson's parenting advice is very similar to the Pearl's.... yeah spanking over disappointment on having to leave a friends house is borderline abusive at best. I personally am OK with spanking - but only done rarely, VERY carefully, only when calm and with a lot of grace (my parents also did it very well, not perfect, but they were really balanced). It's so easy to wound our children with our words or actions.... And each kid is different and different methods work on different kids. There's no "one way" to parent. Taking it so extreme and harshly as the Wilsons or Pearls do makes me so angry. Those poor kids. I have a 3 and 5-year-old... they are still learning how to handle their emotions.... I'm not going to discipline them for being disappointed about having to leave their friend's house. I might talk to them about it, but it's not active disobedience. Good grief!

[@annlowry9841]

Take it straight to trans issues. Look...it's soooooooooooooo much easier to say that allowing children to transition than it is to defend what her mom did so let's deflect and throw up the hugest strawman ever.

[@davidxinidakis4119]

Wow...Nancy is so narcisitic and authoritarian....unfortunately peolpe parent that way because thats the way they see God and their relationship to him...Do what I say, its all about me, and what you want is not important.

[@nathanhimbeault8433]

Come on man. Grow up and read your Bible

[@sampaigemusic]

All I hear out of DW is straight ignorance, and that’s being nice. He’s either completely ignorant on abuse or he’s straight up lying

[@UnderTheFloor79]

Moscow sounds based.

[@thisguy2985]

I probably wouldn't spank if I had a kid, I don't inherently have a problem with it though. It was fairly rare and other forms of discipline were often used and they weren't used out of anger. Most of these stories of parents spanking their kids are horror stories to me as well. It's actually kind of funny because when my aunt was a kid and my grandparents used to give her a lecture about what she did wrong and she would specifically ask to be spanked instead because she didn't feel like having a boring talk 😂.

[@granthooper4264]

i like doug wilson, but this is super wack..... i hope she didnt tell the story well..... and i appreciate you wondering that too. because if its as is......wow. lol

[@andyz3225]

I used to like DW. Still have a bunch of his books. Went to a gathering of students at his house once when I was at NSA (attended his church as was required, too). Personally, as far as cordial interactions go, I felt like I kept getting a cold shoulder. While the NSA faculty took a great interest in my life (specifically concerning blog posts), he seemed like he couldn't care less, my family and I were just revenue sources. Another way to put it: Nate has a reputation for being a jerk (or at least used to), and my interactions with him were far more pleasant than those with Doug. Sorry to dump my life's story, just providing an anecdotal backdrop for my current stance, as well as express to you that I hope you exercise extreme caution and discernment when it comes to all things Doug Wilson. Fine if you like him, that's your prerogative, but you should be aware that people have been hurt either directly or indirectly by him and the church.

[@granthooper4264]

yep i understand. but if im being honest.....every church ive been to. and ive been to some good ones. it has been more difficult to make friends at then at my jobs, at crossfit or in the world. we are quite "cliquey" and comfortable in our circles..... and since i dont know doug. i just evaluate his teachings. his writings on loving my wife and empowering her by giving her authority over certain things and not meddling...... my wife is a stay at home wife fyi..... but like not getting involved in whats for dinner or rules about shoes off at the door..... making sure she gets to decorate how she wants etc .....since she is the one at home and thats her domain. essentially systematizing leadership and taking accountability for teaching my family and being an example......its been helpful at my stage in life. there are certain things like this, that i certainly cant fathom. but heck.....so much of this is a product of our culture. if you listened to any christian leader 100 years ago they talked like this. my wife loves elisabeth elliot and she talks like this. lol. i think God blesses our attempted obedience when we are trying to do so in love. but your experience does matter. i had a cold experience with james mcdonald.....lol i think im safe to say that isnt surprising now. and one with al mohler that i think i can give him the benefit of the doubt on. paul washer was by far the kindest, gentlest, and funny leader ive ever met. he spent the entire day with a group of us....and the next day despite having horrible pain from bone issues @@andyz3225

[@lornadoone8887]

@@granthooper4264Physical weakness can humble people and bring them down to earth. I’ve never been a fan of Calvinist teaching, finding that it bears a lot of ugly fruit, but the stuff I’ve learned about the bullying, callousness and narcissism of Wilson, McDonald, Driscoll and others has made my blood run cold.