My reaction to Chris Froome's team bike review and his comments on disc brakes

[@ashleyclarke3855]

Hi David - Your view is that Chris Froome “needs a better mechanic”. How would you advise an ordinary consumer to go about finding a better mechanic than Chris Froome’s, in order to avoid these disc brake issues ? All the best and thanks for your videos!

[@888julianman]

Perfectly summed up. If disc tech is indeed better for ‘the masses’, what hope do we have if a pro with his own personal mechanic struggles with them?

[@hogdog567]

@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj that’s no way to talk about Jesus.

[@okantichrist]

@@hogdog567 😂😂😂

[@juandelatorre5131]

Boooom! Mic drop. Periodt.

[@pantster9855]

Froome has yet to have his own mechanic during a race. He has had his new bike about 2 months now, the whole time he's been training without his team in California, so has probably just used a local shop just like us normal people.

[@mariofonseca9267]

Not sure why you watched Froome’s review from such a cynical perspective. I am wondering if I took that same perspective of yours while watching your videos which I so far have enjoyed tremendously. What attracted me to your channel was that honest perspective without an agenda that comes across as you share your view on a given subject. this was a side of you I did not imagine was there. Like you have a gripe against the guy. No need to go there in my opinion.

[@kwtnbe]

Obviously we need to see a David Arthur vs WorldTour team mechanic challenge.

[@MP48]

indeed i appears that not only know more about Chris's bike than his won mechanic but also more about the bike than Chris. What a guy, is there anything this god of knowledge doesn't know

[@Fixin-To]

Indeed I appreciate the jest

[@tman5634]

As a professional mechanic, i'm happy to show David Arthur the error of his ways. Chris makes some very valid points.

[@hogdog567]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that the winner of seven grand tours knows what he’s talking about.

[@donadams5094]

The limb you have gone out on is not a strong one. The opinion of one man, particularly when contrasted with all of the expert data that is out there, is not a basis for informed conclusions. Being a skilled rider does not make one a skilled mechanic or engineer. Further, he himself said that he has ridden rim brakes his entire career. He has no body of experience, no scientific or other credentials, and refers to no studies or clinical data. He just offers an opinion based on semi-technical jargon. I'm not even critical of him for offering his opinion. But I don't take his word for it any more than I would yours or anyone else's as an article of faith.,

[@pantster9855]

@@donadams5094 and he admits he’s only been on discs for a few months now. Other Ineos riders, like Ganna and Wurf show their training F12’s are disc versions (Wurf even helped develop the disc Bolide) but Froome doesn’t seem to ever be pictured on a disc bike

[@royhorslen9960]

Agree. Choice for the consumer

[@mbal4052]

@@donadams5094 haha quite the opposite my friend, Froome knows the equipment he needs to win tours. He also knows when rotors rub and overheat 😂

[@donadams5094]

@@mbal4052 He knows what he likes, but that's not the same as saying he is an expert more generally. Lots of pros use disc brakes, including descent specialists like Julian Alaphlippe and Marc Hirschi.

[@Roger101Watson]

Everyone is talking about this... well-done FACTOR PR you nailed it!

[@11-inch]

Just like the new specialized road shoes that got everyone talking about them.

[@countspokeula539]

Now they just need to get him on one of their rim brake bikes!

[@Solarsystem50]

Love Chris Froome. He is not getting in line like the rest of the industry. Rim brakes were fine just a few years ago, now everybody seem to be insinuating that you will likely die if you don’t go with disk brakes.

[@nojapier]

It's just a reason to get a new bike because we ALL NEED disk breakes

[@Gabepedaler]

I think your comment about the brakes not working and maybe getting a better mechanic was a little disingenuous. He was probably referring more to the rubbing issue not happening on the stand but then happening when he was back on the road and not that the brakes were not working.

[@cospinan]

Well for me was a very arrogant reaction from his side. Also when he commented that he thought that on long descents pros don't brake. There should be a company that came with an innovative rim brakes and / or compound. It should be interesting

[@jaredfontaine2002]

@@cospinan Pros brake on open roads Especially in Cali which is where he is training right now lol

[@jaredfontaine2002]

Dude! Who are you going to believe a guy that has won 4 Tour de Frances and multiple other Grand Tours etc or a bro bro on KZbin???

[@cospinan]

@@jaredfontaine2002 you meant Cali... mi Cali... or California

[@jaredfontaine2002]

@@cospinan Yes the People's Republic of California

[@feliperenaultcsp]

Totally agree with his opinions on the downsides of disk brakes: recently experienced the mysterious brake rub that only appeared in the road, not on the work stand, on a 6 month-old Supersix Evo. It was a nightmare until it got sorted, mysteriously too. I guess will just have to cope with some degree of rub

[@jaspreetsidhu5708]

I had the same issue, ended up retensioning my wheel/spokes had some lateral play which was causing the issue. it might be worth it?

[@feliperenaultcsp]

@@jaspreetsidhu5708 good point. I checked everything but the spoke tension. I’ll look into it if/when the problem arises again

[@robertofalkoni8544]

@@feliperenaultcsp Could be you overtighten through axle, too. Try to back it up a little and see how it goes. But always check afterwards the wheel is secure and not moving up and down or sideways.

[@PLN1999]

Had the Same problem. The Frame had to be changed

[@feliperenaultcsp]

@@PLN1999 also a Supersix?

[@JSC131]

I have to be honest purchased a focus cayo 105 disc 2 years ago bike was brilliant and felt so safe whatever the weather when braking.But the rub of the discs absolutely drove me mad no matter how many times I set them, so went back to TCR rim brake. Cracking vlog David again fair play.

[@channul4887]

I wanna know what rub is. I want you to show me.

[@PhiyackYuh]

@@channul4887 youtube will show ya. You just need to search for it like you search this video.

[@channul4887]

@@PhiyackYuh on the scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is not sharp and 10 is switched on AF, you are hovering around 1.

[@hanchesterman5661]

@@channul4887 I had a little chuckle🤭

[@channul4887]

@@hanchesterman5661 big up the Hanchester Mandem.

[@AutodromoF1]

Did you just say “pros don’t brake on descends”? You don’t watch much road racing do you?

[@okantichrist]

I couldn’t believe that either 🥴 Anyone who’s descended a mountain will know mountain roads don’t go straight down 🤣 Hairpins are a thing 👍🏻

[@Bellerophon17]

To be fair, the anti-disc brake posse (I’m thinking of Durianrider here) comminly comment that disc brakes for pros are necessary, because pros descend at far great speeds than your everyday cyclist. So pros brake, but perhaps with less regularity

[@pantster9855]

A pro will ride a descent, at a far greater speed than you and I will, even if we know it well and will brake far less than we do. Every time they ride a descent they are effectively riding on a road thats twice as wide as we get to use - they never have cars coming the other way so get to use the full width of the road even on blind bends. They only ever RACE on closed roads.

[@jessecumings4134]

they dont, they brake as little as possible

[@Krejza82]

@@jessecumings4134 But this "braking as less as possible" is obviously still too much for the current rotors.

[@rodneywilliams5526]

It's a breath of fresh air to hear the comments of a pro cyclist on their road bike, and they don't get any bigger than CF. He seemed to be honest in his opinion, while popping in a few digs about his old Dogma. He definitely has a future as a blogger...can't wait for the next instalment.

[@vaughanc4919]

As a bike mechanic I can say from experience that the one elephant in the room here is frame, or more to the point disc brake mount, alignment. If the ISN mechanics 'face' all of the mounts on their frames then the issues will definitely be reduced. On every road bike and gravel bike I build I face the mounts and while I get a couple of clients coming back to me with noisy brakes it's certainly a lot less than before I did this. In saying this I feel that I shouldn't have to spend the better part of an hour having to correct manufacturing issues on every frame, especially when you are paying thousands for these highend frames.

[@danc1829]

I agree so refreshing to see an honest review I've used disc on a tcr and rim and prefer rim brakes personally... Think it's such a shame they didn't develop more bikes with direct mount rim brakes as the brakes on the emonda for example work very very well

[@81caasi]

Right?! Direct-mount Rim brakes seem like the perfect technology.

[@danc1829]

@@81caasi nothing is perfect but they definitely bridge the gap...

[@mikeypalmer3977]

I have direct mount brakes on a Specialised. Think they are about as good as rim brakes get.

[@GS-pk9rd]

Well I thought it was a genuine review from CF. No reason to believe otherwise. I felt your attempts to discredit his experiences showed a little bias maybe? I mean perhaps it is a complex marketing ploy that sets up the 'big improvements' that might happen in future, but that all sounds a bit conspiracy theory to me. What people value from the cycling media is objective consumer advice, though of course you're entitled to your opinion.

[@tman5634]

Been told about this particular video. As a former professional team mechanic (now working freelance) & fitting/working on disc brakes daily, Chris Froome raises some very valid points that he is correct about.

[@paulround4691]

Try direct mount rim brakes, they are superb and easy to modulate!

[@markp353]

You are probably right, I could not afford a bike with that set up. Where discs are now available at all price points. I suppose that is the thing with these discussions, not everyone has had the same experiences or has owned a high end bike.

[@pantster9855]

try direct mount rim brakes on carbon rims on steep descents. In fact don't, you'll end up in the hedge

[@johnboyginger]

Pros will brake on descents on roads opened to traffic and at bends. I think Froome knows what he’s talking about.

[@E90bmw]

100% - Pros definitely brake on descents lol

[@rosem07]

Whilst there is good content in the video and informative, something about the tone felt very off to me

[@anthonyholmes1704]

I really dont see the point of your review, of Chris Froome's review as your opinion is consumer led for people who ride around the park on Sunday. All life long club/racing cyclist know that the disc brakes on road bikes is a massive con by the bike industry to sell more road bikes to 'soft joe public'. The Professional Peloton ride what they are told to get a contract, however it is refreshing to hear Chris give his honest opinion about discs on road bikes. What his words told me is that you can't take something off a mountain bike and stick it on a road bike and expect it to work they are different beasts. I have been a club/racing cyclist for 35 years and always embraced positive change and engineered development in any form. Most change is for the better like going from 531 tubing with six speed cassette to my Colnago C64 with direct mount brakes, Campagnolo SR EPS 12x and WTO 33 wheels....believe me that is real progressive change! But believe when I say Road Bikes dont need disc brakes, it is not progress in any shape or form, I have never ever not been able to slow down or stop using rim brakes. (Eddy once said 'If you brake you don't win) If you can't ride down a long switchback decent in the pissing down rain using Direct Mount Rim brakes then you should not be riding a bike. Leave Discs on MTB's and stop ripping us off Road Bikes Don't Need disc brakes.

[@openwheelracing88]

Point is, current disc brakes have a lot of room for improvement. I look at them as first generation. I ride it daily and yes I need to adjust it regularly, especially after removing wheels.

[@JibbaJabber]

Very little maintenance required on my 2017 Trek Domane. Once setup, just a matter of keeping it clean and lubed in the right places. Maybe I've been lucky🤔

[@openwheelracing88]

@@JibbaJabber do you take off wheels and it goes right back perfectly centered? My local mechanic with loads of experience can't replicate. He always has to adjust after wheels are off. I think we all have different level of expectations. My issues with disc may be total noneissue for others. Heck some people ride with airpods and will never hear disc rub under load off saddle. If one doesn't see it then better keep eyes closed. I was same way. I thought they were maintenance free. Until I realized otherwise.

[@JibbaJabber]

@@openwheelracing88 Yep. Never had a problem with the wheels remaining central on reinstallation. The only issues I've had is pistons failing to retract. But this was due to dust/crud build up. After realising what the problem was, proper cleaning and maintenance sorted this out. I'm very surprised that you local mechanic needs center every time. My bike has thru axles (12mm), which helps with alignment. Does yours have the 'old' style quick release? The only other issue I can think of are wheels/forks being too 'flexi' - meaning there's a greater requirement for setup precision. Discs do require a bit more technical understanding (and possibly maintenance), but this is all straight forward once you get into the swing. The only time I hear noises is when I get them cruddy going through a deep puddle, but this soon disappears. I use my bike all year round and found that a bit of knowledge and regular maintenance is the key👍

[@PhiyackYuh]

@@JibbaJabber im glad you have great experience with disc breaks. I myself still deciding on getting disc brakes for gravel riding. Im enjoying rim brakes at the moment. Do you need to have high end rotor and a big one so it doesn’t rub when you constantly taking out the front wheel and back for example putting the bike at the back of the car etc.?

[@carlosleyva4394]

That improvement is only possible with higher weight. Disc brakes aren't for road bikes.

[@tony2163]

Watching the video, I didn't really see him making and digs about his previous team bike. Sounds more like your digs.

[@dominicbritt]

Glad to see everyone is an expert on full speed alpine descents...

[@swordycow]

you saying "I thought pro's don't use their brakes on decents" and "I think he needs better mechanics" sums up all people need to know about your opinion

[@davidarthur]

I’m just amazed people are taking it so seriously!

[@swordycow]

@@davidarthur you're the one that made the serious video 😂

[@davidarthur]

Was it serious? I think people are taking it a bit too seriously but hey ho

[@CG-vb9di]

Dave, 1) a number of oversized pulleys/cages have adjustable spring tension which can be changed accordingly on installation. 2) Froomey hasn’t raced on the Factor yet and has been training on open roads and descending with oncoming traffic like the rest of us, maybe that’s where he might have experienced overheating? 3) Alex Dowsett rides for the same team.

[@gogoyoyo2404]

I agree, Here in the Malibu mountains the decents are technical and 15-18% with traffic and driveways witch cars pull out. So were on the breaks way more ( switching pads out every 3-4 weeks ) too stay safe. You could fry an egg on the rotors. Definitely switch to larger rotors. By the way he was doing intervals up a 17% grade and fly by like I was on a beach cruiser .. I'm excited to see how he performs this season....

[@MarkGeraghty]

"Pro riders don't brake on a descent ?" what about hair pin bends ?

[@SaintKimbo]

Real men don't even have brakes on the bikes.

[@Cerv3ra]

what about training in non closed roads? Really a weak argument from David.

[@81caasi]

@@Cerv3ra That's what I was thinking.

[@pantster9855]

you do not brake "constantly for 5/10 minutes" on hair pin bends or in traffic. Pro's do not train at race speeds when on open roads. Speed is the biggest contributor to energy (heat) in discs, energy = mass x velocity squared. Actually your argument about hair pin bends makes the case FOR discs: discs work better than rim brakes (especially so in wet), they allow you to brake later and harder. Going fast on a route/segment isn't just about being able to go faster, it is also about spending less time going slower which discs allow. This is the whole argument the pros initially used when they said they didn't want mixed use of rim/disc brakes in peloton as those on discs could brake so much later in to bends potentially causing crashing with those braking earlier in to bends. It's also a reason why disc brake TT bikes can be faster on more technical courses

[@Cerv3ra]

@@pantster9855 but heat does not disipate instantly, and on a long descent you can start to get problems with piston retraction.

[@hgrgrnd1206]

I'm running rim brakes, my gf on a top end 2020 liv with discs. I get plenty of stopping power and no squeal on cold days. Her brakes have gone out of alignment already a handful of times, plus pad replacement. Haven't had any issues with mine. Still going strong. Rim brakes please

[@rupertbaker]

I have 2x rims (2x road) and 2x disc (gravel and CX). Honestly for racing where you want to use your brakes as little as possible disc brakes aren't worth the hassle/complexity. Both my disc bikes have rubbing issues fairly often but they are great for off-0road and wet. Money no object I'd buy a Enigma gravel bike with discs and a rim Colnago, etc.

[@jtalley8191]

disc breaks outselling rim brake bikes?? possibly that is because disc break bike are all that is available, of course they would outsell. That is a really silly comment. If I were given a choice I would choose rim because I don't need a better solution, and I don't want the complication of losing quick release. Now I have to carry a allen wrench on every ride, which is just silly and feels like a step backward.

[@JamieTec]

I think you missed it when he said "when both brake options were available disc sold more." Which makes your argument moot.

[@damianlowe7808]

You really need to look into the engineering of disc brakes on road bikes! There definitely not perfect! Why don't you do a poll to see what most consumers think of disc brakes.

[@ralphdajao8547]

This is good. It will help the bike companies to work on disc brakes more and make them better.

[@thiscocks]

Or better still make rim brake versions.

[@borjagarcia6858]

Better mechanics? In an pro team? Come on man, are you kidding me? That happens a lot! And don't get me wrong: I just bought a TCR disc and I wouldn' t buy a rim brake anymore because of the resale value. But, as he says, the tech is not quite there as it is now in MTB.

[@larsborgman3443]

@@Incaensio exactly, looking for something racey right now but they are basically all at the same price from new

[@borjagarcia6858]

@@Incaensio where I live that's not the case: you can find a lot of second hand rim brakes wheelsets. It's almost like when MTB switched from 26" to 29"

[@aluminati9918]

Have been on Campagnolo Record Discs for a year now and have to say: that’s night and day. Smooth as silk. Certainly less maintenance than my Premium brand rim brakes. Wheel wear is night and day difference also of course... Never going back.

[@hogdog567]

Despite teething troubles, Campy seem to have nailed it and might be the most highly regarded of all the disc brakes out there 👍🏻

[@molfar9049]

it’s easy to go hard on rim breaks on carbon wheels when you have a full bus of spare wheel sets and you are not paying for them! i’m on disc breakers for the last three years and only had disc rub once, easily sorted without a trip to a bike shop.

[@onyong123]

Ya not sure what the fuss is about the rubbing. On brand new pads I may have a little from time to time but I’ve put 15000 on my bike in the past two years with no serious issues... and that’s with descending the local mountain quite a few times.... the same mountain which had a local guy with rim brakes blow up his front carbon wheel and end up in the ER...

[@richardwilliams9091]

If a carbon rim on a rim brake bike goes out for a pro during a winning move, the cost is much higher than simple a rim. It's probably not far to downplay the cost of a mechanic failure during a race or even training ride. The outcome can be pretty bad. The fact is, carbon rim brake wheels have gotten much better over the years.

[@carlosleyva4394]

@@onyong123 ask Remco Evenepoel why he crashed

[@pantster9855]

For a rider at 66kgs and with his skill level I refuse to believe there is anywhere where Froome has EVER ridden with “brakes on constantly for 5/10 minutes”

[@thomasvanassche5346]

Descents with a lot of cars and traffic? Pro's do more than kust racing they also train on open roads with traffic

[@pantster9855]

I stand by statement there is no way, in 2 months of use, in hills around LA (the only place Froome has ridden discs so far) he has had brakes on "constantly for 5/10 minutes". I would wager there wont ever be a time where he does with his skill level and weight. In traffic they are on/off, doesn't build up heat, even in USA's annoying block system with loads of stop lights. If there's a steep descent with lots of cars and traffic pro's would be overtaking cars not sitting behind them. SRAM sent test riders down steep hills with weighted backpacks dragging the brakes to test their HRD's and they continued to operate. Or, if you're saying that's an issue for discs then it would REALLY be an issue using a carbon rim for doing the same job, with the added risk the heat build up in the rim could burst the innertubes PS - Froome's ex team mates such as Ganna and Wurf, paid to ride rim brake bikes in races often use the disc version F12's for training, with those cars/hills you mention

[@pantster9855]

also, pro's ride slower in training than they do in races, for obvious reasons like not being in a peloton on closed roads and other reasons (see recent GCN video about this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fF7cln55i5eAqM0 ). As the amount of energy you put into the brakes is a function of mass x velocity squared it's the speed that's the most important thing. Slower speeds during training on roads with cars as you mention results in much less energy into the brakes - 2x the speed = 4x the energy (therefore heat) into the brakes

[@noellaukkanen84]

Pantster they are payed to ride disc brakes in training and post photos of them they ride rim brakes in races because it is lighter and you can do a wheel change quickly

[@pantster9855]

@@noellaukkanen84 then why don’t the whole team ride disc brakes in training, the majority use rim brakes for training and racing, It would seem more likely Pinarello want to continue with the team using rim brakes for some reason, it has been shown even their rim brake x-light bikes are heavier than other brand disc bikes now. In a similar way that Bianchi refused to let Jumbo visma use the specialisma (so Roglic etc ended up with bare carbon xr4’s instead) but now they allow bike exchange to use the specialisma if they choose Most other brands have pushed disc brakes for pro’s as it’s an easy way to sell more bikes to people who may not like to think they have ‘old tech’, even if they have only just bought a new rim brake bike

[@eddeking123]

Why should the pros not be able to have their own opinion? 90% like the discbrakes but everyone stomp on the people still likes the rim. They are downsides and upsides to both.

[@SaintKimbo]

No one stomps on people that still like rim brakes. It's the opposite problem, just check the forums, most disk brake users don't care about this issue, use whatever you like, but as can be seen here and on other forums, it's the rim brake guys that are going hysterical, "Froome doesn't like discs, we told you so...blah, blah, blah". No one really cares about this issue, apart from rim brake users, and they won't shut up about it.

[@TDZed]

I think the issue with disc brakes is similar to the issue with bottom brackets: the tolerances aren't there. I've noticed on a few high-end bikes that I've serviced, the mounting surface of the rear caliper is not perfectly square, so when you tighten the caliper down, it doesn't sit square and can be a nightmare to prevent them from rubbing. the fix: a bit of tape on the outside edge to level the mounting surface. But yes, disc brakes can be can super noisy when hot or wet. I still prefer them over rim, just cause the have better braking modulation and you can fit bigger tires.

[@maxab7e63s5]

As a recreational rider I would not see the need for disk brake, but at this point its not consumer choice anymore. With the new push for increase tire width, which I'm a fan of, most rim brake frames are limited to 25 - 28 mm width. Anything above 30 mm you are pretty much bound to run disk brakes.

[@angusstoneham]

I think you were being quite disrespectful to someone that has won the tour 4 times telling his honest opinion.

[@MichaelBoogerd]

He’s getting in a lot of excuses why he won’t be competitive - clearly the brake rub!

[@LordFata]

I've also had plenty of trouble with my discs. Uneven piston movement even shortly after maintenance. Thought it was a Rival thing, but seems like some of the Shimano fellas suffer from it too. Replaced the seals, pistons and reservoir yesterday, hope that improved it. Would certainly help not having to bother with DOT fluid and 2 syringes each time.

[@fergusdenoon1255]

I suppose if you're warping discs during the ride, that's something that changes from it being in the workshop, which means it's not a better mechanic that's needed, it's better brakes that's needed.

[@matthewburrows7158]

I’ll be watching all of his content when he releases it. Also your point about “clever marketing”... isn’t that exactly what you’re doing to boost your own profile by commenting on a “current” story from the most successful pro rider in the peloton?

[@stevenr5149]

The clever marketing is a great point. It is super-duper slick marketing! I admire that strategy. I bet more people will watch his promo than contodor's(and he set an Everest record to help with his marketing). LOL I appreciate David's perspective on it. I hope that this vid does put more eyeballs on David's channel.

[@edparry4656]

Hi David, really like the channel but why the skepticism for Chris Froome? Alex Dowestt was basically drooling over his Factor Bike in the review on his channel. I get that this may be a very clever ploy by Factor to show awareness of the rim/disc debate but I do believe they are two completely different opinions by pro's on their team bike. I think we can expect more openness by Froome given that he is nearing the end of his cycling career. Not trying to provoke a negative reaction from yourself or the viewers as I enjoy the content regardless. Always room for healthy debate. Cheers.

[@Dee-Ell]

You mean a clever ploy by Factor to attract attention to the bike. What better than use the emotionally-charged debate about disc brakes?

[@richardwilliams9091]

Froome... this is the guy that sat on the start line during stage 11 of 2020 Vuelta and refused to start because he didn't like how race organizers changed the rule. I love Froomey's commitment to the truth at whatever cost. Great bike review!

[@edparry4656]

@@Dee-Ell Exactly! This is what I meant to say.

[@bikeman123]

Agree with everything froome said about disk brakes. The brake pistons are prone to sticking and don't move evenly. The problem is exacerbated by winter road crap which makes them a bit of a pain but better than changing rims every season.

[@joeswright86]

If a world Tour rider needs a better mechanic what hope is there for the rest of us. Gen 1 hardware, it will get better. Nice to have a sportsman not afraid to speak.

[@igorvmakarov]

Ineos and Team UAE are only two WorldTour teams using rim brakes. The latter actually use both disc brakes and rim brakes... However, in 2020 all three GCs were won with rim brakes (with LOTS of GTs stage wins with disc brake equipped bikes).

[@mudbone59]

Thanks for the video. I've been running hydraulic disc brakes on my road bikes for several years and have never had his problems. Although I'm not a world tour rider, i am a heavy rider at 90kg. One thing he can do to avoid most of his issues, and anyone else with these problems, is to use floating discs. He seems to have a one piece rotor on his Factor instead of the Shimano rotors. One piece rotors do not have the heat dissipation properties and tend to warp as apposed to a two piece, floating rotor.

[@LordFata]

Dumb question: How do wheel swaps during the race work with discs? In my experience even similar hubs will have slight differences in brake rotor position, meaning adjustment is required after the swap. Do riders just live with it for the rest of the race?

[@okantichrist]

This is one of the biggest reasons some riders hate them and Ineos don’t use them .

[@doodahmc]

They don't = they do a bike swap instead. Changing a disc wheel would take too long, especially with thru-axles

[@LordFata]

@@doodahmc ty, haven't followed races in the recent years

[@costasmandylor1565]

Damn David, tell us how you really feel! 😂😂

[@alfonsplasil]

Exactly

[@wemorgan]

His brake thermal issues will be more prevalent than yours I suspect as he rides/races on closed roads down the fastest and highest mountain roads in the world. We all have our own requirements based on individual needs.

[@albertwang1391]

Let’s don’t forget Bike industry is out there to make money. Disc Technology is a safety feature and sells, but need time to mature for perfection. It is a working in process. Now, it is up to consumers to find out when one needs to be in that process and deal with issues that come up.

[@LDBCFC]

This is a bad look mate. Wouldn't have put this video out myself.

[@tonycrabtree3416]

Not an issue in my eyes.

[@adamsouthard1155]

One huge thing to remember. Skyy/Ineos typically rode Dura-Ace wheels which have an aluminum brake track. One of the biggest reasons I choose disc brakes is that I can get really cool wheels without worrying about the carbon wheels either getting wet and braking poorly or getting warped from heat. Rim brakes are indisputably easier to set up, easier to align, less expensive, and would be my overall choice if it weren't for the fact that carbon wheels and rim brakes just aren't great friends.

[@OVOCNYCHECK]

none of the pro team is riding aluminium wheels at the race majority of them are riding carbon tubular wheels which have different construction at the outer edge of the rim

[@trin08201]

Dura ace tubular wheels have long had carbon brake tracks. It’s the clinchers, which they don’t race on, which are aluminium.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

Ain't nothing wrong with aluminum rims. If you aren't trying to win races, why do you need carbon rims?

[@freebird61885]

My main beef with rim brakes have to do with using carbon rims: 1) wet braking performance is trash, 2) just decimates the rim after a while. I really don’t like using rim brakes with carbon rims.

[@markwells8798]

Don't use carbon rims🤣

[@DirkDierickx]

he needs to use ice tech discs and pads to avoid overheating, also use at least 160mm (instead of 140mm) when doing long descending.

[@howardj2433]

The OVERWHELMING number of comments under Froome’s video are positive. It’s amazing! And, it might be less about the brakes than it is about his refreshing honesty. People are STARVING for honesty. When I watched your video, I thought you made several defensive comments with an “I know better” attitude. When commenting viewers called you out on those, you replied that you were “just joking”. That rings FALSE. You make nice, informative videos, but I’ve never been drawn to them for the jokes. Perhaps we can all learn something...

[@eto2352]

David Arthur so salty. Throwing shade for Froome being on yt, then talking down to him on technicalities. Such a negative take on everything Froome said. Froome didn't say his the oversize jockey/ceramicspeed is needed for chain retention. He said the larger pulley helps to minimize the see-saw action of the chain with the osemetric chainrings.- marginal gain, but what he is saying is TRUE. Simple geometry. Also can't believe you're trying to negate his opinion based on his riding experience. Are you telling Froome he doesn't know how to descend? 9:15 now who is the one blatantly shilling for the bike industry? Bottom line: The equipment will improve with feedback from professionals like Froome. They will not improve with sycophants that defend whatever is put in front of them.

[@leaveonlytreadmarks3964]

Clever marketing ploy by Shimano, can’t wait for the new Dura-ace with changed lever throw, dual piston callipers and reduced heat build up.

[@paolocapozzi927]

I've come down the Grossglöckner Hochalpenstrasse in a single go, down to the first village with a 10Kg gravel bike carrying 15Kg of luggage (I weight 70Kg myself). Not the single hint of rubbing, or noise or anything else than nice stopping power. True, the issues he mentioned can be present but they can be solved. Especially if you take care of your bike. I think one issue the pros might have is the pursue of light stuff. Which means you want a 140mm rotor. But then you want to stop yourself and the bike when going down at 80Km/h. Already using 160mm rotors makes a huge difference in cooling off. Better cooling also means less warping and the reduced heat also does not affect the pistons. And let's not forget that if you have rim brakes on carbon clincher...you are potentially riding on a disaster waiting to happen if you overheat your braking surface.

[@blaablaa1718]

haha sooo true.... perfectly set up on the stand, one mile into the ride and a screaming banshee turns up. The worst thing is i can't stop any faster on my disc bike. They need to make it so WHEN the rubbing starts it plays a cool tune, like a wind up music box

[@SeeYouUpTheRoad]

David -- Regarding - 7:50 why is he holding the brakes on descents I thought pros didn't brake on descents - keep in mind he has been riding in the Santa Monica mountains of Los Angeles for the last few months -- there are many MANY steep climbs and descents over double digit grades with sections of 15-20% and tight all of a sudden "10 mph caution signs" hairpins with crappy pavement or many times you get stuck behind cars or slower riders and you have to be on the brakes. Check out climbs/descents like Deer Creek, Decker Canyon or Las Flores. These climbs are easily accessible and extremely popular because you come right off the Pacific Coast Highway into a double digit climb with amazing views of the ocean. I'm sure he has been riding the aforementioned climbs. These are not long flowing Alpine climbs with closed roads to vehicular traffic. It's LA - one of the most densely populated cities in the US.

[@pantster9855]

exactly, so he can't pick up the kinds of speeds on those busy roads as he could racing. Energy (heat) = mass x velocity squared. As he's going slower in training on busy roads the amount of heat build up is considerably less. I've ridden all of those climbs (& descents), if riders are being held up by cars they pass them, they dont sit behind them dragging brakes

[@adrivdw7093]

I recently bought a 3 year old S-Works SL6 Tarmac with rim brakes for less than half of its original price. Why? Because nobody wants rim brakes anymore. That's marketing. I have disc brakes on my mountainbike already for years and together with 29inch wheels it is the biggest improvement to MTBs in years. So I'm all for disc brakes in the mud and when you really need the stopping power. But on my race bike, living in a flat country called the Netherlands I can perfectly do without. Saves a lot of money.

[@paulround4691]

They make a rim version! Phil Gaimon uses one...

[@danc1829]

Yes but froome isn't able to use it... As they want him marketing disc

[@jasonsteven3861]

The ostro vam is only in disc, the 02 vam which is there lightweight climbing bike is rim or disc thats the bike phil gaimon uses, which I thought chris froome would be using..

[@richardwilliams9091]

He has an older frame. I don't think they make it anymore. I could be wrong.

[@jasonsteven3861]

@@richardwilliams9091 the 02 and 02 vam are still current and they still do a rim brake version as well as disc..

[@davidcole6893]

Very surprised when I viewed this yesterday. Chris immediately brings up the old disc v Rim debate when he hasn't even raced the bike. I am awful at bike maintenance but even I have been able to eliminate disc rub 95pc of the time by cleaning and adjustment. As David says be interesting to see if Chris gets a rim before main races start.

[@joskes123]

David Arthur looks to be me like a disc brake fan boy. But at least he honest most of the time. But I don't like him thinking disc brakes are one size fits all

[@love2wheels748]

I think coming soon factor will release new Super lightweight Grand tour style rim brake Froome edition bike?

[@love2wheels748]

I see his comments about the width of gap is a big Shimano plug! You wait! Shimano's new Dura Ace 9200 will have a 1mm larger gap and servo wave technology! So lots of movement to close the gap then the servo wave technology to increase the leverage for braking power 🤔

[@pantster9855]

Froome confirmed this bike will be 6.8kg's for races, that's the lightest they are allowed to weigh and considerably less than his old Pinarello. There won't be a rim version of this bike, he could use the o2 VAM rim brake if he really wanted which will be the same weight during races. I suspect it's more to do with only having disc wheels on team cars

[@love2wheels748]

@@pantster9855 I think your find this is actually a very well played game by shimano, during this new season Chris will suddenly be on new shimano 9200 series with new Servo wave action brakes that have more clearance at the rotors and floating discs with rotors that are less prone to heat warping etc etc. Basically a new shimano braking solution to all of Chris's issues 😉 but still provides all the pro's he mentioned first.

[@pantster9855]

@@love2wheels748 couldn’t agree more. Except the discs - ISN are sponsored by Swisstop for discs (& pads I believe)

[@love2wheels748]

@@pantster9855 so as long as Swiss stop keep the rotors the same width and shimano creates a Servo wave with extra travel and a caliper with the ability to fully retract the pots evenly then it's a win win brake set. Whilst I know its the 12 speed n wireless people are expecting I think its the potential evolution in brake tech that could really separate shimano from the rest on the road!

[@DrunkieCat]

I'll said it again and again. THERE SHOULD BE A RIM AND DISC VERSION!!!

[@cmacd8879]

Factor do make both versions....

[@noellaukkanen84]

C Macd no

[@cmacd8879]

Huge numbers of riders live and ride in flattish, if not dead flat, terrane, myself one of them. On most of my rides that start on city limits, I use my brakes once after 60-100 km of riding, when I gently come to a final stop. To say disc brakes are overkill for this, is an understatement. And, one reason my newer bike is indeed a Factor, is that they were one of the few higher end framemakers, that give you the rim brake option.

[@lynnebarkas6906]

No matter what bike he’s contracted to ride, he’s not going to be totally negative. Any bike will have positive and negative points. Perhaps manufacturers need to listen to pros to produce better bikes. Perhaps they do. They need to keep changing things to keep sales going.

[@jpnw3272]

I noticed the Factor bike did not have Shimano rotors. That might dissipate the heat better, but as you said, why are you dragging the brakes so much? Also. The stiffness might be because it is a disk specific bike. It doesn’t have quick releases - less flex around the axles. I again agree. Maybe better mechanic skills? Maybe they need to be bled better? That’s my two cents. Great critiques on Froome’s video. Thanks for sharing!

[@twiggyinc1]

The priorities for professionals and the majority of people's big purchase is different. Professionals are looking for lightest and fastest option. They are less bothered about maintenance, versatility or cost of use (rubs on carbon wheels). Whereas the benefits of disc brakes for the majority of people are reliability in different weathers, the weight difference is significantly lower than previously (as well as majority won't notice the difference) and doesn't wear wheels. Horses for courses.

[@pantster9855]

Froome has said he can get this (disc brake) bike to 6.8kg. His old bike (rim) is quite a bit heavier - Egan Bernal's race bike (smaller than Froome's and so lighter) was 7.1kgs when GCN weighed it (kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIuoXoymnJpmosk ), so 300g's heavier than Froome's new bike, and Bernal was using the X-Light version which Froome didn't seem to use. Weight isn't an issue here

[@BikeLife154]

Disc brakes are selling because bike shops are pushing disc brakes more. If you go to a store they will push you toward disc brake bikes and tell you you need them which many new riders probably do. I own both braking systems and the only time discs are better is in the rain or off road. Saying that I don’t ride in the rain and I live in a very dry country. People like myself feel they are being forced on us because soon we won’t be able to buy a new rim brake bike!

[@jev2867]

For peloton the rim brakes make more sense. It is lighter and the cons far outweighs the pros (for peloton.) I do think he's very critical of the bike overall, kinda makes sense if he wants it dialed. I guess he knows well what works for him. There are some shameless plug thrown in there, and yea it seems like he was taking a dig.

[@Flexo_l]

They don't need to be lighter for pros. Bikes with disc brakes are under the UCI weight limit already. Disc brakes will only improve and get better.

[@davidmartin305]

@@Flexo_l But can't get a wheel from neutral service, as TA, disc rotor size and pitch vary so much, ask Richie Porte, lost a bucket load of time waiting for team car on the gravel section of TdF.

[@jev2867]

@@Flexo_l if they're looking to shed weight that is the first to go. They can use that weight for an even stiffer frame/fork. In no circumstances I see a disc advantageous in peloton. In worst conditions I can even imagine they lock them up, skidding, sliding to crash. I agree with some of Froome's views of disc but like what Arthur said, heat dissipation, warping shouldn't be one of them because after all they're always looking to go fast and not looking to slowdown even on descent which I'll circle around to the tiny advantage of disc. Begs the question, do they really need it? For my application as weekend rider, street and trail, century adventure rides, I need disc brakes.

[@aidanmasterson50]

Disk never warped with heat on downhills but I guess Chris does not have to pay for carbon rims when they are worn through.

[@Pillokun]

160/140mm vs 203/220 with quad pistons... and you can still overheat the brakes causing the brake pads to glaze up...

[@sparkvideos77]

Stop it. Rim brakes are easy.

[@MJarthur95]

RIP when riding during rains or countries with 2/4 - 3/4 of the time wet roads. Disc are far better, yes they are a pain to change/maintain but have more benefits than the rik brakes...

[@Montezuma0]

I love the ability to run 32mm gravel tires on my disc road bike for when I want to do a light adventure ride. Besides that I would go with rim brakes

[@rowerazzzzzeee]

100% agreed with From. The rubbing is so annoying. On my bike Dogma F it works perfect for hours until i have to brake strong on descent. The space betwen rotor and pads is to small. Sometimes after 20min of ride rubbing is gone. It is very difficult to set in the workshop .

[@mikeypalmer3977]

Disk brakes are ok but are far from perfect. Check out an engineers view of road disks on Peak Torque's channel

[@glennoc8585]

I had a spoke go at speed and I was glad I had disc brakes because i still had braking,even though my wheel was buckled enough to have rendered rim brakes useless. Chris could be just doing the PR spin on the new and improved' version Comng soon. It's odd very odd for a rider to critique equipment that they're sponsored by. Does it ever happen?

[@stephen4347]

I never ridden a disc brake road bike but I like it them on my commuter bike. I just want to have a high end rim brake road bike. There is a market it for them and if Factor makes the Ostro Vam rim brake I will be buying. #savetherimbrakes. I am with Mr. Froome on this topic. Give us our damm rim brakes or else I will have to buy one of those trifox bikes.

[@froggy0162]

You’ve never ridden a disc roadie but still think rims are better. I think I can see a small flaw in that argument...

[@stephen4347]

We the consumer should decide what break system should be on our bikes. Not having a rim brake option is the issue here. It is not about which one is better. It is the consumer’s preference and choice here. I understand the business side of things and having a rim brake mold and disc brakes mold can add up in price.

[@kennedystuart5685]

Cool video....great concept...always enjoy your reviews. I have one question for you....do you think ceramic speeds are worth the purchase and upgrade for us weekday and weekend warriors...thanks again.

[@williammcdowell1358]

I agree with most points people making it sound like he is saying they are really bad when he is just say they are good but still have slight issues ...an at the same time manufacturers need the likes of to pro riders on the disc brakes to find these faults ..the biggest problem I can see is the disc mount on the hubs seems to be carrying to much flex needs to be a better design of mounting points...frames will flex to ..I think the frames need to be made with some sort of floating mounting points for the calipers to be mounted to

[@danielt8960]

Good point about floating calipers might take away the rubbing he's talked about

[@foodbymark]

Amateur rider here, both my bikes 2020/2021 models have disc brakes which were totally new to me. Whilst i've problems with alignment once, it was a very easy 2 minute fix on my workstand, and out on the road, worked perfectly. I'm not a pro mechanic but...

[@robdavenport3188]

I agree with Froomey. Discs can work in the workshop then get them out in 30°C heat on a long windy mountain downhill and it all goes a bit tits up, (if you will excuse my french). Contamination of the pads is ever so common and when they are squealing they are not braking properly. Pads only last 6 months if you are lucky or not using the bike! And they are not cheap to replace. The general bike buying public have been well conned by very successful marketing manipulations of the big boys, and then wonder why their brand new Trek Domane disc feels like a tank. Fewer customers have had an opportunity to experience a sub 7kg bike so they “choose” a disc brake bike, mainly because there’s usually not much else on offer. Home maintenance is more of a pain and you can’t just remove your forks because of the hydraulic hoses. Ok , discs for winter wet and gritty/griming UK road cycling, but in the dry, in the summer, in Europe, I would well pleased with a 7kg rim brake road bike, if anyone still sells one that isn’t totally pro race orientated.

[@БабурЮсупов-э9ф]

And Also. Pros dont brake on descent they shave speed. they need to shave a little to make not 60km/h but 55. something like this please tell me how to do it on disc. and why Ineos Use rim brakes. The team which does not have limit on budget.

[@channul4887]

Thanks for the shoutout in the first second of this vid.

[@davidarthur]

😂

[@Pillokun]

Well as a late disc brake convert I gotta agree with many of the critics of disc brakes. my xt disc brakes br785 even with 203mm rotor up front is actually giving v-brakes with ceramic coated rims a run for their money. I overheat my disc brakes pretty easily causing the brake pads to glaze and then the braking is actually even worse than old school rim brakes with bare alu rims. With the ceramic coated rims and v-brakes I get super good feel and modulation and the braking power is immense even in wet conditions. The only issue is if there is like mud or something that sticks to the rim..

[@njm3211]

I don't own a disc brake equipped bike yet, perhaps soon but in the guise of a MTB hardtail. My newest bike has direct mount rim brakes which are superb. Disc brakes have without a doubt allowed the advance of wheel rim technology in road bikes: wider and more aero rims which are a great benefit. The greater stopping power in the rain is also uncontested. It's only a matter of time that the negative aspects, namely rubbing will be sorted out. For racers there is the issue of slower wheel changes and possible problems with neutral wheels.

[@chrisdunn8215]

In my opinion a bike reacts totally different when your riding it on the road as opposed to having it on a workstand, maybe its something to do with the additional weight of the rider on it or that you can put a lot more power through the pedals with your legs as opposed to spinning the pedals with your arms when the bike is stationary in the work stand. The disk rub could also be caused by the weight of the rider also the fact that the bike gets thrown left to right under acceleration with many watts which causes flex in the wheels a frame...may be!!!

[@rachidguemanou522]

I agree on a bit on the downside of disk brake. I used disk brake for a couple of years and I only experienced the rubbing once. with regular maintenance you shouldn't ' really have any issues. The reason I like disk brake is the instant breaking Froome mentioned. They do really work when needed.

[@casperixion]

I don't understand the comment about ceramic speed. Chris is completely correct that a longer cage will allow a better chain tension. Yes, a clutch derailleur will do it better, but that involves other trade-offs. A longer cage allows for a shorter chain with stronger tension, although with slightly worse shifting.

[@Phaidrus]

Well, then he obviously needs a pair of Shimano rotors with cooling fins. No warping due to heat.

[@Mxrobius]

Swisstop rotors are better. If you can't warp a road rotor you are not descending and braking hard enough.

[@Phaidrus]

@@Mxrobius Well, I'm doing almost 90km/h occasionally and don't feel like going any faster, honestly. No issues with my Shimano rotors. Froomey is just being too conservative - as he has every right to be if he so wishes, of course.

[@froggy0162]

@@Mxrobius I’ve had them smoking and turning purple. No fade, no warping.

[@richardggeorge]

Possibly it's an integration issue, he isn't using a full Shimano dura ace brake setup. He said he using "Swisstop rotors and discs" (I think he meant to say rotors and pads) - see here 3:23

[@christianrivero446]

Pros don't brake on descents. Theyll only need it uphill.

[@tomrachellesfirstdance7843]

I am glad to see someone saying something as not everyone likes disks. One thing about Froome is he is a GT rider and a flat could cost him so much time so much easier having a quick release rim brake from neutral service I find it shocking GT contenders on disks Richie got super lucky last year when he got his flat

[@dtmateo]

Froome was not complaining about his chains "flapping". His concern was that the chain is moving up and down because of the oval chainring. The RD will have to compensate for "constant changes" in the chainring "size" because the latter is oval. Even a RD with clutch mechanism is NOT going to help with that. The way you comment about "if it works in the work stand then it should just work outside" is very naive. Even simple derailleur indexing needs adjustments after testing in a real ride. On the work stand, you shift without pressure on the pedals but during a real ride, it's very different when you are exerting force and shifting. On the work stand, the rotor can be perfectly centred but in the real world, when you brake while banking around a corner, the rotor could shift ever so slightly to one side because forks are not completely rigid. This results in warping and rubbing.

[@nickw6175]

The real point for " normal " riders ( what ever we are) is when buying a bike is the significant price gap between rim and disc worth it ?

[@velolego]

Funny you cut it before he asks watchers to subscribe 🤣

[@chrisdagnall8666]

I think Chris Froomes comments and observation on disk brakes is correct, from his perspective, as a super human athlete who can output power and ride at speeds we mere mortals can only dream of. In the same way I think my cars brakes are great, put Lewis Hamilton in it and the pads will be on fire and brake fluid boiling within 3 corners. It’s the same here the disk brakes we mortals use are fine for us but the design does not work for the Pros, the same way an F1 cars brakes are different design to road cars, the only thing in common is they are round.

[@thegrizzlys]

think you've been a little keen here little fella. most people will have a basic understanding of a bike when they go to the bike store or more so now, buying direct they are pushed towards discs. Personally, I'd stick with direct mount calipers as for me they have all the stopping power i need and are lighter, and easier to maintain. Now I generally like your content, but this seems like you are pushing an agenda, doesn't work for you.

[@Dee-Ell]

Right, the agenda, that's why Mr Froome is riding disc now.

[@henrikerdland578]

Heart is no problems for a disc rotor. A carbon rim would delaminate much sooner than a disc rotor bend.

[@RyonBeachner]

“Is this the start of a youtube career? Hopefully not.” Who cares? More cycling content on KZbin is a good thing. Why on earth would this be bad? We know his success on the platform we be virtually assured, and it would allow him to continue profiting off doing what he loves. You know, kinda like you do? “I thought pros don’t use brakes on descents” Of course they do, just in a different way, and he’s been riding around Malibu where the roads aren’t perfect and cars are present. You know this. “straight out of the marketing playbook” So, his criticism of disc brakes isn’t valid, however he’s being insincere if he uses an old bike reviewer trope to describe his new bike? Who’s towing the marketing line here? You or him? Jesus man. Many of the comments you’ve made smack of jealousy and bitterness. You can do better than this.

[@davidarthur]

It was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, especially about him starting a YT channel. Jezze, why so serious? ;)