My Sephiroth Theory that Changes Everything

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[@PhilipHarts]

What do you think? Will Sephiroth "Save" everyone?! Subscribe here and Follow me on twitch.tv/philiphartshorn Join my discord to help me choose my next video: discord.gg/J85mKhG Watch my film work here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fILKZpVsl8aafdU Follow my Twitter: Twitter.com/philipharts

[@aocerna2004]

So, Sephiro would probably kill Genova when he realizes he's been Genova's puppet all this whole time.

[@MrFox21121]

He’ll try but it’ll turn out to be Jenova Emergent, and since she has the high ground he’ll stand no chance…..bummer

[@kevinburke1325]

Wrong. Sephiroth is OP. Plus, this is literally his redemption game.​@@MrFox21121

[@The3rownie]

I hope we get good guy Seph back! 😭

[@FreeFlow__]

Dude, sephiroth is the one playing with jenova in og, thats no secret. He needs jenova for the reunion.

[@tonymaccaroni1683]

If anyone could save Sephiroth it will be Aerith. I can see her forgiving him even after what he did to her in her endless empathy. And that act of forgiveness, a concept completely foreign to Sephiroth, will probably crumble his paradigm so far that he may start to reconsider his ways and allows Aerith to help him out and lead the way to his redemption.

[@The3rownie]

I mean she does mention forgiveness in her speech and she even questions Sephiroth in the final battle about why he would want an eternity of loneliness and he doesn’t answer so here’s to hoping that there’s a chance to redeem him

[@tonymaccaroni1683]

@@The3rownie Exactly. From the beginning of the Remake I got the feeling that they know eachother for a long time (that's why I think this is a sequel) but never that they really hate eachother. Even when Aerith told him that he is wrong, she sounded more like she pittied him more than anything. She would try to redeem him in a blink of an eye if she had the chance. Let's see if the devs ever took this scenario into consideration.

[@xizilionyizzexeliqer3897]

you can't trust him he's too manipulative. He would randomly kill anyone. The only reassurance is a test like Dr. Sheiran or someone working with Sephiroth until then Cloud is like I don't trust you or something like that. A test confirming something extraordinary like his Jenova cells are weakening after seeing the library of lifestream and his real mother and what Hojo did.

[@xizilionyizzexeliqer3897]

@@The3rownie that would be silly as every cell of his body since birth is shared with a monster from a different world with a violent appetite and approach to everything however knowing his real mom might be more powerful and biologically he could try and fight it within first.

[@federicamacchia1656]

Sephiroth knows very well the concept of forgivness....he forgave more times Genesis,even after his hostile behaviours..he tried till the end to find and save him.He forgave Glenn,that in a Moment of rage kicked his necklace,the only Memory of his mother Lucrecia,in the mako...But i think too that probably Aerith can make her part to help Sephiroth to regain enough lucidity and emotional health to free himself from the grasp of that Monster.....And probably,somehow,somewhere,this Is already happened.Aerith has Lost some very important memories,and now it's crucial to know what was in such Memories...

[@FVD]

I just started Chapter 5 of The First Soldier where Young Sephiroth has in possession, a photo of Lucrecia believing that she's Jenova. What could happen if he finds out who she really is? Seems like so much of a tragedy and maybe he'll go on more of a rampage if he learns the truth. Finally finished the game about 8 hours ago too, btw. Oh, so much content to pick up - but I'm excited!

[@phrofile3613]

This video aged well after first soldier episode 8 lol 😂

[@rsoxboy]

Interesting theory. There's some credibility to it because Sephiroth thinks the screaming of the planet is actually happy and joyous cries, and Aerith even says that he'd tell you he only cares about the planet. But it all began when he started to believe that the he was Jenova's son and the planet is his birthright. It comes from an incredibly selfish core of his own ego, with the roots in his Jenova genes. I doubt we'll see Genesis in part 3. It would be hard to introduce a new character close to the conclusion of the story and have it resonate emotionally with the audience. Everyone is way more invested in Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Zack, etc. I think your idea of trying to connect with the human side of Sephiroth is good though. If anyone plays a part in such an arc, it will be Vincent.

[@0909Alz]

Genesis in part 3 would make perfect sense as he reawakens to protect the Planet like the weapons do, there's an entire game to build him up anyway but he could also just be a superboss.

[@rsoxboy]

@@0909Alz It's not so much about making sense, it's about 90% of the players not knowing who Genesis is. Almost all of the players will be concerned with the tension surrounding the main characters. Genesis is just not a popular enough character to be given any significant screen time in part 3. It's too late in the game to bring in a new character like Genesis to give him a worthwhile role in the story. We still have to explore the backstories of Cid and Vincent, and Yuffie will probably get her time in spotlight as Wutai will be given a greater presence in part 3. Then there's all of the other key events from the OG that need to be explored in some form in part 3. Genesis might be mentioned in one way or another, or even remembered in a flashback sequence. But it would be incredibly difficult to give him a significant presence in the story because 90% of the players will be asking "Who the the heck is this guy and why should we care?" A key storytelling tenant to continue building upon the arcs that have already been developed as the story, characters, and underlying tension gets closer and closer to its climax. Genesis could be added to the combat simulator, or his significance to Sephiroth could potentially be explored in a side quest, but it would be a mistake to give him anything more than a bit part in the next game.

[@FVD]

Give Genesis his own DLC! 😛

[@kevinburke1325]

Genesis is literally always talked about in Crisis Core. They wouldn't be adding a new character, he needs to be in the story.

[@0909Alz]

@@rsoxboy The devs have actively suggested to play Crisis Core Reunion before Rebirth's release, Genesis is the main antagonist there. They even put "Glenn" in, are you suggesting everyone is familiar with him?

[@Riku2005]

dudeee Phill you cooked hard man.... this is how they should expand on Sephiroth I did not even think of this.

[@franimal86]

I agree with your assessment that something is different with Sephiroth. I’m not a fan of the theory that he becomes a good guy, though. I think it’s too fan-service-y. It would be a huge change from the OG game and wouldn’t really line up with the movie, but they’ve already changed enough of the OG story that I think it’s possible. The thing that made me think something is different with Sephiroth is this: in Remake, they made it pretty clear Sephiroth knows what happens in the OG game, so that made me think, wouldn’t he know Jenova is using him? Wouldn’t he know Jenova isn’t his real mother? I know there is this idea that Sephiroth is using Jenova, and not the other way around, but I’m not so sure. Then again, maybe Jenova is taking on the form of Lucrecia to manipulate Sephiroth. Maybe he *is* seeing his mother when he looks at Jenova. Still, he would now know his mother wasn’t an Ancient, either way. But now, we get lines in Rebirth where Sephiroth says “don’t let her fool you,” directed at Cloud, and I’m left thinking, “why is he helping Cloud in this way?” Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to keep him in a confused puppet state? Why would Jenova remind everyone that she takes the form of loved ones, etc? It doesn’t really make sense for Jenova to give herself away like that. With the alternate worlds timeline shenanigans, I think sometimes we’re talking to the true Sephiroth in the lifestream, and other times it’s still Jenova taking Sephiroth’s form to manipulate Cloud to bring her the black materia. The ending of Rebirth has got me thinking Jenova is taking Aerith’s form, too, for the same purpose (maybe because Sephiroth is fighting back? Who knows!?) I’d be lieing if I said I wasn’t excited to see Sephiroth rip Jenova to shreds. But then, he would still want meteor summoned so he could become one with the planet and become a God. So in the end, he’d still be a villain, and we’ll have to fight him. I kind of like the idea of him helping the party to defeat Jenova, only to turn around and think he’s still powerful enough to become a God. I do like your idea that we fight a fully formed Jenova, though. I mean, we sort of did in the OG, but not really, since Cloud and Sephiroth still had some of her cells in them. Her final battle in the Northern Crater always felt anti-climactic for me, anyway. I’m always down to theorize for another 3 years!! Heheh as you can see from my long-ass comment, I love this freakin’ game!

[@Myxboxisonfire]

Love the theory, I was sure the Sephiroth we saw at the edge of creation in remake had benevolent intentions. I really can't wait to see how it all plays out.

[@mihailuca3759]

Maybe at the end of part 3, Sephiroth manages to resurrect Jenova, but then she tells him she despises him, that he's something like a mere worm (after all, he is just a being of the planet she's trying to assimilate), that she's a lot more powerful than him and tries to kill him (this is what is called "the devouring mother" in Jungian psychology) and so the three of them: Cloud, Zack and Sephiroth band together and defeat her.

[@Tohlemiach]

I'm trying to remember what other story did something similar, but I think if this happens, Sephiroth definitely has to die in the final battle to defeat her. I think it would work really well, but we as the audience I think need some sort of catharsis that, even if he repents and helps in the final fight by the very end, he still needs to pay for his crimes against humanity. It would help cement the idea of him being a tragic hero I think.

[@KinziruOnoroi]

I think teaming up to fight Jenova is pretty cool, but I still think that Sephiroth will want to be the ultimate bad guy at the end, he most likely will deny humanity completely.

[@mihailuca3759]

@@KinziruOnoroi How cool would it be if the player got to choose if Sephiroth is redeemed or not!

[@OzZforrest]

@@mihailuca3759 that would be so awesome. Then all the haters can Omnislash him and get AC after that, and with redeeming him you get a different ending. Love it!

[@The3rownie]

I mean Lucrecia can’t die apparently because of the Jenova cells so whose to say Seph will have to. I would love to see a redeemed Seph back who gets a second chance to live. Even the meteor shot we got from Remake of what’s to come shows Cloud and him standing back to back almost as if they were allies. Also the one line Genesis uses from Loveless to describe Sephiroth is the “hero of the dawn, healer of WORLDS”. Heck Genesis even predicted the world’s end in one of his quotes which I can’t remember but ironically the way the water was rising at the forgotten city as the worlds merged reminded me of that particular quote.

[@joshuamorgan1646]

I think it would b really awesome to see ur theory come 2 life in the 3rd game! I think it would be cool if they somehow turned things around 4 sephiroth in the end. Jenova becomes whole and when she does attempts to use sephiroth as a "puppet" to kill cloud and the gang. Once she starts becoming whole, sephiroth starts getting flashes like cloud has been but it makes it more clear to him what the ultimate goal of of jenova is and what she did in the past to the cetra. In the final battle when sephiroth has them almost beat, jenova makes it clear that it will only be her to rule the world's. Sephiroth turns on her and battle ensues. After a while, he realizes he can't beat her alone. He extends his hand to cloud asking 4 help and they fight together. Realizing the only way she can be defeated, is to make sure she is never found. Uses the lifestream to travel back far enough to stop this from happening. Before going back he says, "remember me for who I was." Since he would always say he would never be a memory to kinda play off that lol. And final fight is sephiroth and jenova in the past

[@CAeuJohno123]

That's pretty tuff man ngl... shit remember me for who I was? Daaaaamn... Ive been saying the game ends with aeirth reuniting with her mother in the promised land after sephirth and jenova are defeated. If sephiroth does that, he will earn his place in the promised land aswel. Imagine the game ends like that. Would be so good

[@joshuamorgan1646]

@CAeuJohno123 that would b really cool 2 see them all make it to the promised land. I like that as well!

[@aocerna2004]

What if Sephiro meets hi real Mother.

[@ToueTu]

Hearing this theory after watching the last trailer for the new chapters in FF7 Ever Crisis kinda hits different. I don't know what the chapters will be about, but just having the 7 seconds till the end song and that final shot of Sephiroth looking at the sky made this theory even more interesting.

[@Qarach_Ice]

Sephiroth gotta be goated again. Excellent theory.

[@creativebodyflying]

Sephiroth is Anakin Skywalker turned to Darth Vader

[@OzZforrest]

Great talk! I love the idea so much with the Sephiroth Lifestream sequence, I actually had the same thought. Maybe the edge of creation is the location where this is taking place, in his case. That could link up to the end of the new First Soldier trailer just release for the 2 new Chapter to be released. What we also need to consider, and what could be the outcome of such a scene, is actually him rejecting all these memories, because they - in his eyes - would make him weaker and set him off his goal. He then surrenders the memories to the Lifestream. This is what we can read in Lifestream black 2 "... the man had already surrendered his inconsequential memories to the planet. Memories from when he was a boy, of his few friends, of the battles when he was still unaware, of his life in bygone days". That would emphasize his a tragic story so much, actually getting really emotional right now just thinking about it. And I mean, after surrendering his memories, he is basically nothing, while in contrast Cloud becomes whole again. And in that case, it makes sense, that he doesn't say a word in the entire ending scenes. And they can actually do the same in part 3 of the Re-trilogy. There is nothing left to say for him, because he literally became nothing. Ok, I will just go and cry a bit now.....

[@CAeuJohno123]

My theory is: after defeating sephiroth, we get jenova complete! Youre totally right. But i think she will tell sephiroth that he was just her puppet, and it will destroy him.. you were never my son! Jenova will be the main villain, and we will end up feeling sorry for sephiroth by the end. Killing jenova also kills her cells. Meaning sephiroth is human again, but he gets banished from the lifestream, to forever roam the planet like the GI as punishment for his actions. I want ff7 to have a happy ending. I want aeirth to reunite with her mother in the promised land! And i also want sephirth to remember lucrecia and find his promised land also

[@MysterEeee]

Yes! You get that the only way for ReTri to really do justice to the value of the Lifestream is for Sephiroth to truly fulfill his role as FF7's Ego and achieve at least one grand meaningful change to the world going forward as it's true Messiah (whether being a Messiah of dark or light). Although I do believe Sephiroth will ultimately fail at creating his "perfect" version of this time compressed promised land (a Garden of Eden at the Edge of Creation if you will), I speculate that his desires that lead him down the path to create paradise will still be answered as a sort of compromise between the Planet and Aerith. So at the very least I think Sephiroth's greatest achievement by the end of ReTri as both the perfect Monster and Messiah will have been to allow Aerith the opportunity to save humanity in a way that couldn't have occurred without Sephiroth. Thus threading that needle of giving Sephiroth a redemption arc just riiiiiight. ReTri's story has thrown some juicy criticisms towards the "current " will of the Lifestream like its lack of support in death, its lack of closure, its lack of a shot at redemption after gaining the kind of self awareness only an intimate relationship with death can bring, in this life and at worse the after life too. I think ReTri Sephiroth like you describe is motivated by resolving this perceived injustice towards life and the evils during life this will of the Lifestream currently dictates. I think Smith's arc in the Matrix trilogy and most importantly his actions and achievement within Matrix Revolutions will be very similar for Sephiroth. Although I agree at least one desired difference will be to allow us to deeply engage with Sephiroth's introspection unlike what we were given with Smith.

[@rzxwm10]

Yes, ReTri, another great name candidate

[@The3rownie]

Mine was Reform, but ReTri is cool too

[@emptymelodies3316]

_Peak_ theory crafting right here

[@Rydiculous]

Don’t think Sephiroth can have a redemption arc even if he comes to his senses and realizes Jenova tricked him. He slaughtered a whole village. He’s like Anakin Skywalker. At the end of Star Wars Luke offers to save Vader and have him come with him and Vader goes Naw, too late for me son. I’ve been the Devil.

[@rzxwm10]

Except Vader was redeemed and brought balance back to the Force by taking out Palpatine. His force ghost was chilling with Obi Wan...

[@The3rownie]

Well I personally think he was actually under the control of Jenova during the Nibleheim incident which doesn’t excuse what he did fully but his mannerisms were off and like he was in a trance (like a puppet ironically) and they not only emphasized Jenova in the flashback this time around but also in general expanded a lot more on the Jenova lore now. Like for example the Shadowblood Queen who was also a good person at some point like Seph and in a blink of an eye she turned evil, a lot of things ultimately point to Jenova as it never personally made sense to me how he could switch up to that extreme in a matter of days.

[@Rydiculous]

@@The3rownie I think Sephiroth lost his mind and was more so manipulated by Jenova than being controlled. He’s insane now he believes Jenova is his actual mother and he hates everyone else. Except for Cloud. Cloud has some Jenova cells in him so I don’t think he would ever kill him. Just F with him.

[@jeremyfields9009]

⁠@@rzxwm10its cool he saved Luke but having him as a force ghost at the end was always stupid. That was a Howard Kazanjian idea because Vader dying in Luke arms was suppose to be the last time you see him. Kazanjian even regretted it later because it gave the villain too much of a happy ending.

[@philodygmn]

04:11 Aerith let go of a life she could never have but she only had to because Sephiroth tried to gain one Hojo denied him. I wonder if Aerith, not just Genesis, can save Sephiroth from what seems to be his belief that in order to be worthy of love he must prevent harm as a means to derive security and authority that justifies others showing him any kindness so that he won’t have to wonder if he’s in their debt since if he was it’d prove he was vulnerable enough their kindness could have proven necessary which questions his self-sufficiency and, in turn, his ability to exist as his authentic self in integrity with others and therefore makes genuine connection seem not just impossible but the very prospect seem deceitful and self-abasing. The themes of self-acceptance and anti-machoism in VII could be even more vividly portrayed and thoroughly exhibited through Sephiroth this time around, not just Cloud.

[@Cerealcasual]

Damn, bro really loves sephiroth lol

[@yoloalchemist]

Really cool theory Phil! I do agree Jenova has to be completed in some form or another in the final part. It would be an efficient way to build up to the perfect sendoff to this cosmic horror entity, assuming SE doesn't plan anything beyond the next part in the Remake trilogy.

[@khileemyers3059]

We Want More Extended Fighting Short films from you

[@nekogamer2508]

So Glenn existing might make Sephiroth and Cloud brothers in a way

[@nillozepa7613]

i love sephiroth! He is a villain with a story so complex, beautiful and tragic that it deserves to be told.

[@thatstheway2429]

100%. On the surface he looks like he’s just a generic “I want to rule/destroy the world”, but with his backstory he’s so fascinating.

[@FreeFlow__]

What seems possible is that sephiroth knows that everything in existance, lifestream included, will go back to its source or god if you will and he tells that to cloud by saying "our world will become a part of it one day, but i will not end, nor will i have you end. He tries to become god and stop that returning cycle.

[@8-BitEric]

this is awesome!

[@kaelindewar2110]

Cloud asks Bugenhagen if there is a way to make the spiritual energy of the planet stronger. This is Sephiroths attempt to do just that

[@cloud1stclass372]

Seal’s face lights up when you mention Genesis 😂. This is some dope shit.

[@jayster6661]

Has it been confirmed that Glenn is Clouds dad?

[@ryukthegodofdeath5906]

No its been stated he is not

[@xizilionyizzexeliqer3897]

At one point before I remembered the Nibelheim incident properly after playing Remake for first time (played OG like over 20 and 15 years prior) few years back I was thinking what if Sephiroth turns good then again I agree with Max he's too evil too and has to go. Seeing himself in Lifestream or his real mother and seeing Genesis and if Genesis decided he can't fight anymore the two things could turn him good. Only a real scientific test (No Hojo he's probably too bias and corrupt anyway) to show something like his Jenova cells are weakening or some are dead... Still going back to what you said... Imagine a Jenova becoming real again and it's too late she manipulates Sephiroth again... Split the party... Some Turks and some of Cloud's gang take them all on... Interesting end and Sephiroth being apologetic like Angeal would be a nice touch after Omnislash. To add: I forgot to mention only if his Jenova cells dying would mean you could really trust him or he would literally stab you in the back. Some of the non-playable (or controllable) characters could then even be Angeal, Genesis and Turk members or even be playable like Zack mode in the Rebirth finale. However after Jenova's death the timelines all become the original timeline. 7 is the lucky number so 6 other timelines mainly created by Sephiroth and Aerith makes sense. However all those that were meant to die in the original one return to the lifestream including Aerith, Zack, Angeal etc.

[@DavidZMH]

Do you think Glenn is Cloud's dad?

[@xizilionyizzexeliqer3897]

David you should see Dashing David's video on this. It's interesting especially later on.

[@SeferAngeloEspiritus]

Good theory but sephiroth will not have a redemption.... Why? Quite simple.... Sephiroth is a machiavelian.... Machiavelian do whatever they knew was right even they are portrayed as villains of the story.... Those what we saw in ever crisis of his past like that scene with Glenn and then with rosen just are sephiroth's motivation to do what is right that he believes to save everyone even it cost him to be the bad guy..... You can sympathize with him but he is already beyond redemption

[@xizilionyizzexeliqer3897]

Here's an idea: Sephiroth is flying around the Corel area early in the game part 3 looking for bird meat or something then Ruby Weapon takes a blast at him. He crashes down or even better tries to take on Ruby Weapon all on his own and takes a hit... Picked up by doc Sheiran's team. Finds out he has Jenova cells at the most any human being ever has. Cell for cell. He is worried but stays calm. In a deep sleep the former SOLDIER starts revisiting The Lifestream and sees his real mother's story... Later his new test shows a decline in Jenova cells and for a moment he kills everyone beginning with the doctor! ... No it was a postponed thought or action better yet just vision or as he lies there and listens to Sheiran calm and human-like despite those dangerous cat eyes. Something happens in Corel as Shinra storms in and decides they have a plan or strategy to restart the failed reactor as they miscalculate and assume The Promised Land might be close by but Sephiroth pulls up some heroics against a Shinra mobilization defeating them alongside some Corel fighters... Cloud and co. revisit Corel and everybody was singing Sephiroth's praises... Sephiroth says he understands and knows to Cloud after Cloud tries to tell some of the backstory of his real mother as he had visited Lucrecia's Cave. Spehiroth: *Perhaps I could tell you a story about your father? He always pulled the big guns out.*

[@pseudocide.]

I like this theory, but still need Sephiroth to be irredeemable and please don't turn into a good guy, his tragedy and fall into this evil being is juicy.

[@danobra]

A Sephiroth redemption arc? God, I hope you're wrong.

[@PhilipHarts]

No, I’m saying Sephiroth even more evil arc

[@xizilionyizzexeliqer3897]

good idea but only for it to u-turn and crash i.e. Jenova to retake him.

[@jarrodbarker]

Very cool but definitely not your theory.

[@PhilipHarts]

What do you mean?

[@jarrodbarker]

@@PhilipHarts I’m just saying this idea and similar ideas have been thrown around a lot on the Tube ever since Remake’s “Edge of Creation” scene. It’s by no means wrong to say it or anything but it’s always funny that when Maximillian Dude or another high bandwidth KZbinr doesn’t say something it’s assumed no one else has thought of it. I think even I posted a few times 4 years ago that it will probably be a Jenova-influence free sephiroth helping the gang rid the planet and the lifestream of Jenova. But I also wasn’t the first to say it, since I only started the game a few months after others beat it. All I’m saying is in this day and age it’s a bold claim to have an “original” theory that changes everything… anyway, all that matters is you’re certainly an asset in the ranks of final fantasy vii lore fans, keep making good content!

[@robertjones3489]

Zack: "How could you turn your back on-" Seph: "Easily." Your fanfiction will never happen. Find something productive to do.

[@PhilipHarts]

What’s your fan fiction?

[@robertjones3489]

​@@PhilipHarts You forget the game script? Seph cares about no one, in his own words. Stop romanticizing. Let's talk about those rabbit portraits and those daisies, since I called that before Rebirth was released. Daisies...in Aerith's inn room of all places. That's not all the center-stage references, but with main plot points and characters like Marlene being completely ignored, I don't know why I expect anyone to notice Doom references hidden in plain sight, even if Oda did foreshadow it with a glowing neon sign. Hi.

[@The3rownie]

@@robertjones3489Well Aerith does ask him during the last battle why he would want an eternity of loneliness since forgiveness is her thing and she even mentions it during her speech and you know what? He doesn’t even answer her, so we don’t know what will happen, but I sure hope he does get a redemption

[@ZanarkandAce]

Wow.. I don’t want a redemption arc for Seph, but I’m not going to be a piece of shit and ridicule someone for wanting one..

[@robertjones3489]

@@ZanarkandAce I'd rather be a piece of shit than a fan of Stabs-Aerith-While-Trolling. You can all kiss my ass. Talk more shit, like you're better than anyone.