My Thoughts on CATCH Wrestling!

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teachmegrappling.com This video I talk about my thoughts on Catch Wrestling after I uploaded my discussion and training session with Jake Shannon. Enjoy! If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please comment below. More videos to come! Please like, share, and subscribe!!

[@tormohafighter3957]

I'm a Catch Wrestler, and every Saturday I attend an Open Mat at a 10th Planet Location. As part of my style, I'm not interested in learning BJJ fully, but I'm not gonna be ignorant over it either. I respect Jiu-jitsu guys who show me the same respect. We all put mat hours in, and we're all Grappling. We're brothers from different trees, and we should treat each other as such. Billy Robinson studied Jiu-jitsu, Mitsuyo Maeda studied Catch Wrestling. We should be no different today. Keep rolling my Jiu-jitsu brothers, OSS.

[@tomwalker389]

Judo is the mother of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Catch was the dude who knocked her up.

[@kermit1234]

That's a perfect explanation

[@temoherbertlopez6019]

And Lucha Libre was the bartender who watched that.

[@nthnpar01]

Leon Tan While Catch's grandmother was knocked up by Japanese Jujutsu...

[@temoherbertlopez6019]

@@nthnpar01 And his name is John Cena!!!!

[@SwordFighterPKN]

Oh dude that's AWESOME!!!

[@gabetorresx]

I'm a bjj guy, but i sometimes cross train catch with Joel Bane, who is the top catch guy in the us, and friends with Jake. Hes also a black belt in judo and BJJ, ex special forces etc etc. What he tells me is "Training bjj never makes me better at catch, and training catch always makes me better at bjj" Either way, I enjoy the different looks. It changes up my game and let's me have some different moves than the guys at my normal bjj gyms.

[@hasanc1526]

@JediFlavored Soap since when does BJJ have rankings? You mean the guy who only competes in sub only and EBI has a ranking? Lmao

[@dhoneycutt4168]

@@hasanc1526 ibjjf.com/2020-athletes-ranking Lol, ok expert. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5jXdHuDna6ibK8

[@hasanc1526]

@@dhoneycutt4168 hello Mr common sense, did it occur to you that he doesn't compete under IBJJF rules because he's a leg lock specialist? So why tf would he be ranked under the IBJJF if he only competes in sub only and EBI???

[@ThievesInTheTreasureRoom]

If by Special Forces you mean Green Berets, I don't believe he was, unless he isn't public with that info. Wasn't he a cop in the Air Force?

[@gabetorresx]

@@ThievesInTheTreasureRoom he was an air force sniper, which isn't quite special forces, but extremely selective

[@bjj1969]

While I agree that an all round grappling approach drawing from all arts is the future and the way forward for mma and submission wrestling. I practice the sport of catch wrestling to help try and keep the art and sport alive. I think this is especially important in the UK as it's one of our indigenous wrestling styles. To see it disappear ( which it almost did) would be a tragedy. I have a blue belt in BJJ and when watching sports like freestyle, kushti or Senegalese wrestling I used to think how stupid it was that they didn't wrestle from their back or have submissions. That the rule sets were stupid. But that was more a mixture of my arrogance and ignorance.. all of them are beautiful forms of wrestling. They represent so much more than just a competitive contest. They are part of that country's history and woven in to its soul.. And for me that's what catch wrestling is a link with the working class history of the UK. So to argue that if you wanted to grapple with a pin ruleset then go practice folk or freestyle, misses the point.

[@hairyballs089]

I think bjj guys who dabble in MMA should try to grapple with catch wrestling rules/pin rules in place, cause in a lot of MMA fights, Being in a pin has a good chance of ending the fight. I also think that being in the guard shouldn't be the goal of a grappling, it should be a last ditch effort to guard. Every time I see guys jump into the guard position I'm like "dude, you gave up you're agency for what?". At least that's my opinion as a newb and passionate observer of both styles.

[@kickinwinghotboi883]

@@hairyballs089 One of my biggest pet peeves about BJJ grappling and watching BJJ matches. Guys immediately jumping to guard, like come on dude. That's why I will always prefer Catch wrestling matches, even if some end with a pin, the whole thing is so much more interesting to me. The dominant and pressure heavy way in which they ride the opponents head, arm or leg. The whole style of constantly going for scarf holds, neck cranks, etc. just to cause pain while locked up with the opponent. Plus, the matches that end in submissions are satisfying. Granted, many of the CACC subs I've seen were some form of leg lock, but I digress

[@shrimuyopa8117]

Open up the rules and let everyone use what they want, so that the best moves come up on top.

[@TeachMeGrappling]

☝️Yep!

[@demianthebackpackmaia435]

Jiu Jitsu competition probably has the most open ruleset

[@ddg-fi5bp]

No time limit sub only

[@redearthpaul178]

Yeah, but then you'd have to agree on rules? No pins? Catch wrestling loses advantage? No guard pulling? Bjj suffers. ADCC had the most open rules so this already exists

[@insidetrip101]

@@demianthebackpackmaia435 well it depends on which jiujitsu competition you're talking about. I don't think the ibjjf has very open rulesets.

[@davidelkins9894]

This is the best grappling channel on youtube that I am aware of. I don't know them all but I watch a lot. CB bringing great value to the art and the community. Thanks for sharing all you do!

[@bradvincent2586]

I absolutely love listening to you about the philosophy of grappling. Didn’t even know I needed this!

[@anthonygerber8261]

We're still on lockdown here in NJ. Trying so hard to stay positive! Your videos help!

[@dksilentbob]

I think it's best to do a combination of catch and jiu-jitsu, train both styles in their respective rule sets. You're right about the pin putting limitations on submissions and attacks from the bottom, but with catch, the pin forces you to be a more proactive grappler. There's no resting point; you can't just sit in the guard and collect your breath. You have to move.

[@MrPotatoesLatkie]

Judo silver medalist Travis Stevens got his BJJ black belt from John Danaher in about 2 years. AT the Olympic and World level, the athletes can adapt quickly. Also, The Pedro family does emphasize ground grappling, which is by people like Kayla Harrison won two Olympic Gold medals in Judo.

[@lsporter88]

I think you're absolutely right. Great insight and commentary.

[@calebthroop6399]

This whole series was a pleasure for me. We need to acknowledge how rules of competition change the arc of each Martial Art. Also feeding of each other to fill in the gaps. Great stuff coach.

[@kallepikku4991]

Thanks for the whole discussion. You didn't have a time to express yourself fully, so double the thanks for making this extra video. Cheers mate.

[@davekari4082]

I'm a fan of CACC, wrestler and a BJJ black belt, I coach in all the above as a single art. I think you're bang on with this approach. Well said.

[@tagg1080]

I think you made a great point on your other video. Wrestlers that take 6 months of jujitsu carry the jujitsu flag forward. We are mostly all doing submission grappling with flavors, but jujitsu is the buzz word.

[@sterndd]

Great discussion!

[@StephenEWong]

While aimed at Catch Wrestling, this is a great analysis of martial arts in general. As an ol' guy who has practiced Korean kicking techniques for 55 years, I can say your comments about taekwondo sparring is right on target. Keep it up, Coach!

[@kforcer]

I think there is a distinction between catch-wrestling as in luta livre and Japanese catch and then, the current version of catch-wrestling that deliberately attempts to recreate the catch-wrestling that existed in a certain period. Kiyoshi Tamura, Sakuraba, Funaki, Pequeno Nogueira, the Shamrock brothers, Barnett, Rumina Sato, etc. are all practicing a style that is clearly not different than from what you are doing. And clearly, they're great at what they do. And I love their approach to grappling and its probably my favorite approach. But then you have those people that are more focused on recreating catch-wrestling of a certain period or just following the edicts of certain catch-wrestling gurus than really being the best grapplers they could be. They are always trying to determine if something is "legit" or "pure" catch-wrestling more than looking for what works or doesn't work. And I think that is a different thing. But again, if you look at the grappling style of Brazilian catch/luta livre or the grappling of the students of Karl Gotch, Billy Robinson, etc., you see great grapplers and they are very influential as well. A lot of these guys aren't really looked at as catch-wrestlers, but simply grapplers, probably because a lot of them aren't so worried about semantics.

[@mannyreyessr7887]

I gotta get an interview with this guy 👍‼️... What an open mind. This video to me is all about tearing walls down. Making it all work for you. Really no one is saying that these days. Maaaannn, I agree. Make it all work for you. This was a powerful message, I hope it resignates well with everyone so that they can see and experience the beauty and growth of positive change. Who ever is learning from this Coach, you all are very lucky people ✌️.

[@byoung808]

Thank you for this video, I really value your perspective on the grappling arts. I hope more people throw out the dogma of their art and focus on the art itself.

[@Captain20America]

You are always more than welcome to come to my gym in Michigan. Would love to have you.

[@TeachMeGrappling]

Thank you! That would be awesome... if I’m traveling through there I would definitely make that happened. You are always welcome in my home as well. 🤙

[@Captain20America]

@@TeachMeGrappling Much appreciated, thank you! 🙌

[@kaiceecrane3884]

I think pins should be rewarded with points to include more focus on pinning and avoiding being pinned, but it shouldn't be an automatic victory. I do like that in judo if you hold someone for 20+ seconds (whatever the exact number is now) that rewards an auto victory because of how long takes and how hard that is to do against a skilled person trying to avoid being pinned. I think a pin also shouldn't be based on shoulder blades to the ground, I think if you have a person flat on their belly or you have both your hooks in that should also be a pin. I don't know how much points should be rewarded for each of these pins but I think the pinning rewards in judo, sambo, and bjj all have their place and the pinning strategies and techniques of wrestling has its place

[@TeachMeGrappling]

I agree!

[@bblack9532]

Submission only. That's should always be the end game. I love your channel.

[@thelaw3536]

I appreciate the content Coach Brian

[@simonclayton5358]

the Josh Barnett vs Dean Lister match was an interesting show of what a high level jujitsu/wrestler/fighter, with a knowledge of CACC, can add to the grappling game. I agree that it's all grappling and there are always bits and tricks and techs that can be useful. I love catch for the top game rides, pressure and painful compliance moves and jujitsu for loads of other things, particularly the bottom game subs escapes and sweep and wrestling for the choice of stand-up of get down. Submission grappling I love but/and I always try to be aware of short-comings that might leave me open for strikes, street or mma. Thank for the open mind and the sharing. Peace and strong grips.

[@diabolic42090]

have you done a video explaining freestyle vs folkstyle wrestling? I know basically nothing about the rulesets so it would be super helpful to me

[@VictorParlati]

The problem with catch today is that too few catch people actually trained with an elite catch wrestler from the past. Karl Gotch is gone, Billy Robinson is gone. Lou Thesz is gone….and may the 3 of them RIP. Kazushi Sakuraba started training with Billy Robinson when he was 12 years old, and as is widely known Sakuraba’s was phenomenal. Josh Barnett was already in his late 20’scwhen he started training with Billy. And Barnett became an excellent catch wrestler as well. What happens to catch when Sak and Josh are no longer active even as catch wrestling coaches? That’s why guys like Jake Shannon and some other guys trained by Billy Robinson or Karl Gotch need to continue passing in what they learned. And I personally hope that some of these guys present and future also learn boxing, kicking, etc. and compete in mma like Sak and Josh have done.

[@celinhobjj]

Hello buddy. I’m from Brazil and i live in California now. I’ve been doing jiu-jiu-jítsu since 1994 at André Pederneiras in Rio and trained with GSP and BJ in a different times. Dude... You’re such nice guy man And I really like to watch your videos. Now I’m much more fun from you to see what a good mentality you have bro. Much respect my friend. We all on this together. It doesn’t matter if im from Brazil. We’re all together 🙏🏽

[@THIS---GUY]

What do you think about the change in BJJ meta over the years? Do you like the big emphasis on the leg lock game? I wish I had that much experience

[@luchador1764]

What's interesting though, is that the turtle/ref's position can be your primary bottom position in Jiu-Jitsu if you train it correctly, even with all submissions present and no pins. The emphasis is different than the way it's used in folkstyle in that you have to put a large emphasis on defending the choke and defending the legs from coming in instead of the turnover. It also has a different emphasis from the way it's used in jiu jitsu in that your primary goal is to use it to get back to your feet instead of using it to get back to guard. This also isnt to say that if you make turtle your primary bottom position you dont need any guard game at all, just like if you make guard your primary type of bottom position you still need to know some turtle to get by.

[@insidetrip101]

Very well put. I think the turtle position is very underrated in jiujitsu, even if it is a "live by the sword die by the sword" mentality. I think just as lots of catch wrestlers have a problem dealing with the guard, jiujitsuers could learn a lot from catch by learning turtle. The difference, I would argue is that I think jiujitsuers are reasonably proficient in turtle, where catch wrestlers know literally zero about guard positions.

[@Vscustomprinting]

12:15 yeah for sure. from the research available: it was used to secure people AFTER the fighting on the battlefield

[@kennethpenn9314]

Agree that the blending of teaching is making for more complete/better grapplers now a days. With that being said what are your thoughts on the length of time to black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for the average student who is being taught with this approach to grappling as a whole? Should they be reaching BB faster on average? Should the belt skill/knowledge level be raised to reach BB? Just curious your thoughts as I'm an instructor myself, thanks.

[@animadverte]

Very insightful and instructive. Just a remark: the fact that winning by pins makes submissions mostly irrelevant seems to reflect the trend in MMA. once you are on top and you control the opponent, you are winning, because you can just pound him/her. you do not need submissions, exactly like in winning by pins. In other words submissions are not necessary to end the fight if strikes are also involved. the examples you provide (Ferguson, Maia, Hall) are too exceptional to support your point. indeed, most of the times, if you are on the bottom, even if you are black a belt, you lose. examples are countless. Indeed, if you are an exceptional guard player, you might be able to defend pins as well. However, it does not seem completely correct to say that pins make submission irrelevant. They still have a role in shaping the game. For example, if rear naked choked are allowed, you avoid giving your back, like instead you would do in folkstyle and the like where submissions are not involved.

[@anushsanthanam1270]

Adding my 2 cents to what has already been pointed out repeatedly. This comes from someone who is not qualified to call himself a novice. In short a nobody. But I am a fan and have watched grappling over the years. For everyone, irrelevant of whether you agree with what coach Brian may be saying or not, what I absolutely respect is the humility that is so apparent. Humility is truly everything in life. In this age of bravado and swag/swagger etc, its truly refreshing to find someone cool, collected, calm and humble. Truly rare. Sir, you are a great ambassador for the sport of grappling in all its varied forms. As a learner, while you may specialize in one or more, learning the nuances of other arts to expand your horizon is what realists do. So kudos to you and great job.

[@holdenmuganda97]

I think going off what Coach Brian says then you should change the rules so that if your opponent pins both shoulders down, way for 5 seconds, then the opponent should get a point for every 5 seconds. This would allow guard but would create a more active guard and bottom game then a typical bjj game while still allowing a distinct style

[@garybrooks541]

Came across this today. As a purple belt BJJ I just spent a week at the snakepit Wigan (the home of catch wrestling). I saw a CW move that will get BJJ guys out of turtle to side I thought, and I saw a CW guy go to his turtle, but was out of turtle and gone in a few of seconds, which was different to what I see in BJJ and Judo. I went originally to start to improve my stand up (and will keep going) but I can already see how together they really compliment each other, but if I ever coach I would stil also l like to teach CW separate to help preserve it.

[@chaos_omega]

Agreed. We need specialists... so we don't need to get rid of wrestling, boxing, catch, judo, etc... But we also need to cross-train and learn from each other. Also, I believe it is true that grappling was historically used in duels (and other one-on-one combat) to facilitate the use of a dagger or other close-range weapons. However, you're right that the pin is just a means to an end... and for combat it's not something to focus on. Judo-style pins are a little better because the pins are 20-seconds (I think.) But maybe we start a new grappling style where different types of pins count? Back mount, back crucifix, front headlock, the truck & leg rides... only pins where you are behind them basically. People would go to guard instead of turtling.

[@dubaigeek1988]

Insightful

[@112bv]

One simple way catch could improve: sign up and compete in sambo, wrestling bjj etc tournaments. I just dont see why they would even bother with their small tournaments before they develop an effective method to compete.

[@bruceparker6142]

Rule set takes away lots of their tools, they say.

[@SwordTune]

I think they do. A lot of people doing catch wrestling don't do it to purely do catch. Usually they have experience in other styles and want to use catch to up their game.

[@theodorewurz8424]

@@bruceparker6142 People who say rule sets take away their tools, and therefore they don't compete, are no better than keyboard warriors. I want to see more Catch competitions than anyone, thousands of them, so we cab collect data and evolve the game, but if you train Catch now you need to compete in no gi grappling because Catch competitions are still rare.

[@Flow1987]

Your right coach, you gotta learn them all! I think judo gene lebell told a story about the move mr. kimura used to finish helio with. He said he learnd it during his travel days in north amerika from the catchwrestlers he matched during this time.

[@scarred10]

The kimura was in judo from the very start.

[@emilianolopez5274]

I have experience in chinese sanda from childhold, and started bjj 6 months ago, my coach also has a lot experience in catch as can and we cross tecniques all the time. What i can take out of the catch training is that when i roll with guys my level I'm able to do a lot of catch wrestling summissions to the only bc they dont know how to defend them

[@elenchus]

Great points re:pins. I've been saying that for years, as someone who came from judo into BJJ. The ability to win via pin really de-emphasizes submissions because, as you point out, most submissions require you to have a basic pin position to begin with, and submissions often require you to sacrifice some of the stability of the pin, making them very risky. That might be ok, except again, pins don't actually win fights without some sort of special rules to arbitrarily make that so. That said, my time in judo really gave me a leg up in controlling tough opponents from the top, so I think that a pin-only form of training could actually be very beneficial if it's just a drill you do occasionally.

[@TheLockon00]

Agreed. I think it's similar to Karate point sparring. Obviously bad on it's own, but not as necessarily as a type of drill to build certain attributes, like range control and timing. I mean, Karate sparring isn't much different than shoulder touch tag sparring boxers sometimes do. I think the same is true, as you say, for the benefits of pin-only drilling.

[@elenchus]

@@TheLockon00 yeah, I agree with the karate example. The nice thing about karate point sparring is that it keeps technique clean and prevents brawling, and it also helps develop speed and quick in-out footwork. But as you point out, if that's all you do, that's not going to take you far.

[@insidetrip101]

I think you're mostly right about pins deemphasizing submissions, but I think that it is legitimately a skill to be able to put people on their back who don't want to go there and is a legitimately interesting dimension to grappling. Additionally, there are submissions from the referee/turtle position as well (chokes, foot locks, hammer locks, etc). So its not like its "only" on the side against the pin. But I mean honestly, at the end of the day do you criticize soccer players for not practicing putting a ball through a hoop? We're talking about two different things here, and the thing that irritates me most (from bjj and catch wrestlers alike) is they act like "one is better than the other." Well what does "better" mean? If self defense/mma then I'd say bjj is more "complete" because of the understanding of the guard position, but I don't think that's the only definition of "better" and I think its kind of a stupid supposition to begin with. I mean, how often do you hear soccer players on youtube talking about how soccer is so much "better" than basketball? Its a bit dumb in my opinion.

[@NuggetsForBrains5]

I think soon enough Catch Wrestling will be adopted into the HEMA curriculum

[@carpejkdiem]

Awesome! And I want all of your MMA G&P material in your dome :-) just keep pouring it out (-: - Keep up the great work Brian, love your open mind and I appreciate all you share/do. - Thank you and Blessings brother Ps. Every point you made I agree with. Catch is awesome where it's awesome, but no guard for sub wrestling and no MMA material evolving in the system is just rediculous. 《- my words not yours :-) Neal Malanson from BJJ fanatics is doing good things with it for sub wrestling/MMA. Love that mans material.

[@temoherbertlopez6019]

Daniel Theodore from CatchJitsu has good stuff, his channel is full of tutorials, i recommend you give it a try, his Catchjitsu system is interesting.

[@model84]

plz explain folkstyle, is it colegiate version with pins? when olimpic freestyle/greco-roman is pts for throws only? (1,2,4,5?)

[@holdenmuganda97]

model84 pins are in all styles of wrestling. In folk style which is high school and collegiate style theres more time allowed on the mat for groundwork where as the ground work is very limited in the Olympic styles.

[@rustyshackleford735]

In MMA and street situations you wanna have urgency to be on top which is the value of the pin in my mind, as well as the ground and pound set up, but I think pins should be for points, I don't think they should end the match.

[@lordsneed9418]

I wonder if these criticisms apply to luta livre as well ? I've read some websites that characterise luta livre as descended from catch wrestling but I think it doesn't have the same rules about pinning and is just about submissions and no-gi.

[@elvergalarga6016]

Our judo senseis would often tell us, you can hold a them down for 30 seconds or you can choke them in 3. But then we also drilled choking people from any angle. But they also punished us if we turtle or belly down, what are you doing, waiting to die?

[@SwordFighterPKN]

BJJ is circling back to it's roots of Catch Wrestling, then the question is it still BJJ at that point? There are more things in common than different but the focus on the differences is how people want to make their system "better" to sell it. As mentioned the blend is best. You will never get catch schools since the aggression needed for wrestling just does not attract many people. Just look how many people at any HS are on the wrestling team vs any of the other winter sports. Wrestling without the aggression just is not wrestling, so it is all kind of a catch 22.

[@theodorewurz8424]

Best to get Catch into the MMA gyms. People who train MMA are definitely not afraid of aggression.

[@SwordFighterPKN]

@@theodorewurz8424 oh very true that's were it's at.

[@aminja]

Bjj s roots isn't catch wrestling m it's Japanese Jiu Jitsu

[@SwordFighterPKN]

@@aminja - You might want to review history: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ): Is a Brazilian martial art developed by the Gracie family who were taught by the famed Japanese Judoka and Catch Wrestler champion Mitsuyo Maeda.

[@theodorewurz8424]

@@aminja Bjj was very much influenced by both. Bjj evolved in Pro Wrestling in Brazil in the early 20th century, side by side with Catch as Catch Can. Catch was the more popular art and Jiu Jitsu was the side show at the time. Many of the founders of Bjj trained and competed in Catch as Catch Can.

[@jsl8461]

Coach it's really interesting you talk about safety rules and potentially dangerous calls for folkstyle. I personally like practicing freestyle a lot better (even though folkstyle is more applicable to BJJ and MMA due to its groundwork) because it's more explosive, but I have no problems with folkstyle safety rules. Another relatively new safety rule (ie, past 20 years) is banning the backflip escape from the high single / treetop single. Of course you always get guys who are like "this lame rule makes wrestling a sport for ******s!" but I should hope that most parents and coaches support this rule once they realize how many kids have gotten serious concussions or broken jaws from getting kicked in the face this way. If you have a child or a student who knows he / she is going to be an Olympic wrestler, fine, that kid can go to a regional training center and train freestyle wrestling or Greco Roman wrestling where there are a lot fewer safety rules. But for the rest of the kids, wrestling is a learning tool for life. The safety rules are there so that kids can learn toughness, discipline, competitiveness, etc while limiting the risk of getting permanently injured. In a similar vein I really like taekwondo and karate for kids. With those sports, a kid can get 10+ years of competitive striking experience without the concussion risks of kickboxing or boxing. When they become an adult, they can decide how much concussion risk they want to take, and whether competing in continuous full-contact sports is something they really want to do. Of course taekwondo and karate are not complete striking sports, but they still train skills such as conditioning, distance management, accuracy, getting a read on the opponent, counters, timing, etc without the risk of permanent and degenerative brain damage that boxing and kickboxing bring. Sure, I know Dagestani teenage wrestlers are all able to do back flip defenses, belly to back suplexes, head diving takedowns, etc, the same way Thai teenage Muay Thai fighters are already competing full contact in the ring on a regular basis. For my kids, I just don't think that's necessary to use these sports as a way to teach life skills.

[@TeachMeGrappling]

oh I agree with you 100%. I was just stating that wrestling outlawing potentially dangerous holds and illegal holds just makes wrestling further from reality. BJJ may have the subs that make it raw but wrestling and judo have the harder slams that make it raw. sometimes folkstyle does get on my nerves when I see full Nelsons called. A kid places two hands on his opponents head and the ref freak out like the bottom wrestler was almost decapitated. I’m not saying the full Nelson should be legal but the application of touching the opponents ears shouldn’t be an instant illegal hold imo. Anyway no biggie. thanks! 🤙

[@keithsanderson8597]

@@TeachMeGrappling Isn't catch wrestling without the pin called luta livre .. I believe euclydes hatem was a catch wrestler who took pins out and its named luta livre Thanks coach

[@omardiangeloarteaga4875]

@@keithsanderson8597 luta livre for the win

[@ambrosiusblem5404]

by definition, what you do is catch wrestling, no gi bjj is a modern invention, before in brazil, when you were graplling fighting with out a gi, i as called Luta Livre. Unfortatly its not so well spread and known (been always leg locking )

[@jking5772]

Your conversation with the catch guy was great you appreciated both sides (catch and bjj) but he seemed a bit closed minded. Good content as always.

[@112bv]

A lot of these guys with less success or with less successful styles get away too defensive. They prefer to explain things rather than show and prove they are better or can be equals.

[@bjjbrawler1]

Seems like both disciplines are similar, and it benefits to train both. We've probably shared more techniques than we know.

[@kickinwinghotboi883]

I actually have witnessed a Boston Crab being used on an opponent in MMA, although it was a borderline/amateur promotion and there were a lot of people who believed the match was a work because, come on, even if the guy has absolutely no grappling experience whatsoever, no MMA fighter, or even your Average Joe, worth his salt and has even just a hint of dignity and self-respect is gonna just lay there while he clearly feels his opponent grabbing his legs and trying to get everything set up and ready to get the submission locked in, no, instead almost 100% guaranteed that every single person ever is going to fight like hell to prevent something so humiliating and I'm sure quit uncomfortable... But that's not what the guy did in this fight. He literally laid there, easily allowing his opponent to begin setting up the fucking submission, and he very quickly after was in a full on Boston Crab and there did not appear to be any sort of attempt or fighting to escape the position, he just let it happen. Due to a lot of suspicious things that were noticed during this event, it just appeared "too easy" like the guy was able to catch him in that specific submission was too easily immobilized and just lay there like a helpless slug. Even during the submission, the guy made absolutely no escape attempts. It just looked way too convenient and honestly unbelievable

[@eikud18]

Are there any Catch techniques that are legal in folk style and free style Wrestling?

[@Pifagorass]

How about Boruto trend of acrobatics for getting submission, is it possible to learn for medium level students?

[@112bv]

Grapplers should get away from this mentality of 'style' vs 'style' and ppl. should develop their own personal styles that work for them best. Cross training is essential the sooner you do it the better. listening to a never ending argument of 'my styles is better than yours because... but only if...' is getting dull. There are techniques, rules and rewards. The style comes from that. Brian is right, artificial rules like pins and time restrictions change grappling and makes it less effective for submissions.

[@hairyballs089]

I like the comment but disagree that having rules for pins automatically makes submissions less effective. It's just another avenue for success. I think it's a better system because it's really a bad situation to be in if you are on you're back even if you are in a guard in my opinion. You can also use the threat of submissions to work towards a pin, Its a submission style that is equally effective in my humble (ie i'm shit in both arts) opinion.

[@EBHS230DE]

@32:00 That would mean everything to the spreading of catch as an art

[@josephc7232]

I agree a lot with what you’re saying. Catch can either be historical and stay with pinning or adapt their game for the current grappling/mma world by training and competing without the pin. I’m afraid if it chooses to stay historically accurate it will go extinct. It’s a great shame that modern wrestling is so divorced from its submission past. Hopefully these skills will not disappear for future generations. Also not every Catch school trains pinning.

[@theemperorcharlemagne]

In Lou Thezs's Pro Wrestling matches, you could not pin someone from the guard. But then I saw some Karl Gotch Pro Wrestling matches where the one playing guard was constantly shifting from one side to another to keep a shoulder off the mat. I guess the rules can vary. I think the pin has it's place. I think that Submission Wrestling is the best but sometime practicing amateur wrestling or CaCC is good too. The threat of the pin makes it undesirable to be on bottom which translates well to MMA. Nowadays, no-gi guys like Danaher and Gordon Ryan emphasize the pin. Though, they don't argue that it should be considered a way to win a match.

[@SwordTune]

One thing I noticed: Almost anything can be added to a BJJ practicioner's arsenal, and because they do BJJ, other people will still call those new techniques "BJJ." But when other grapplers from Sambo, Judo, or Amatuer and Catch Wrestling, add new techniques, people always say they're learning a new style to compliment their other base. Somehow, the term "BJJ" is allowed to apply to anything. But the same is not true for styles like wrestling. Which is weird, because think about the word. "To wrestle" is not just a sport or a martial art. You can say "I wrestled control of the situation" or "I wrestled the last twix bar from my friend." Wrestling, in its broader sense, just means to struggle for control in a close confrontation. In reality, all forms of grappling should be considered a different kind of wrestling. But a lot of people who are proud of BJJ (nothing wrong with being proud of your effort) will say no to that. When BJJ learns something new, it becomes BJJ. When other styles learn something new, they learn BJJ. That's why BJJ has become so popular, it has been allowed to mean literally almost anything.

[@insidetrip101]

I think this is the biggest thing. We can talk all we want about how ignorant/arrogant the catch guys are for ignoring guard, but the truth is that bjj has had fantastic marketing for a few decades so much so that Danaher thinks that "grappling" means "no-gi jiujitsu." Honestly, that's a slap in the face, not only to catch wrestling, but also folkstyle, freestyle, greco, judo, sambo, and every other form of grappling throughout history and around the world. BJJ acts like it has this monopoly, and don't get me wrong, BJJ is great, but I think that it takes away from the fact that most all of these techniques have more or less been discovered independently around the world. You can go to remote tribes that grapple and have similar techniques to what we do. Honestly, even though I think the catch guys are a bit too stubborn and ignorant, I don't completely blame them for the way that bjj has disrespected catch.

[@MeerkatMotorBoards]

what are your thought on Erik Paulson?

[@AZTigerMMA]

erik lee I know you didn’t ask me, but if I may- 10 + years purple belt - striker - EP is amazing ! A true legend- learn all you can from him and his guys. Just my thoughts

[@byron3453]

I think if catch started using judo style pin, where half guard and full guard breaks the pin, it would be a much better sport. It would allow people to fight on their back but still keep the pin fall

[@randybowman]

I'd be interested in playing a grappling game where there is no illegal submissions, and judo style pins are a win. a 20 second pin is crazy, and if you let yourself get controlled for 20 seconds you should lose. Also I think it would be interesting to have it where if you're stalling from the closed guard you're pinned, just to get things moving a bit more. Like gi catch with judo style pins basically.

[@scarred10]

Pinning has no function in self defense other than restraint.

[@randybowman]

@@scarred10 kinda. Unless you hit the person you're pinning. My argument is more that it would encourage movement and scrambles.

[@zhangjinyao1994]

So this catch wrestling pin/submissions problem also exists in Judo I guess? Judo has pin to end the match and also submissions.

[@josephcaruso7815]

Submission Wrestling/Mixed Grappling Arts, learn and use what works in terms of takedowns, body control, and submissions from wherever. Also, wrestling pins that end a contest sucks, as do turtles and just pulling guard. ADCC and MMA demonstrate that Greco, Freestyle, Collegiate (Wrestling), paired with BJJ are more common than Catch, Judo and Sambo hybrids, but hopefully Catch, Sambo, and Judo also evolve.

[@kickinwinghotboi883]

Yes! I've been saying this for some time now. First off, one style is not better than the other, they're not there for people to argue which is superior or to keep some heated rivalry going. They benefit each other so well. The Catch wrestling adds the aggression and dominance while teaching you to make your own openings for submissions, as well as adding a plethora of wicked submission holds. The BJJ will teach you that slick, technical grappling style while also learning a good guard game. They benefit each other so well Now, second, the way BJJ has grown in popularity, allowing it to become modernized and the way the experts have perfected the techniques, it's no wonder modern BJJ is capable of beating Catch wrestling. Unfortunately Catch wrestling is still largely underground and hasn't been accepted by the mainstream yet, so it's still "old school" and the techniques just can't keep up with modern BJJ. Catch wrestling needs to be modernized, it's techniques studied and perfected, THEN we will see Catch wrestling keeping up with BJJ. But they're best trained together, blended. Throw some Judo in there, some Sambo. Hell, maybe even Amateur wrestling too. It wouldn't hurt just to have the extra training. You'd be a grappling wizard

[@keithsanderson8597]

Isn't catch wrestling without pins called luta livre the style euclydes hatem created by taking pins out of catch wrestling

[@kforcer]

In Brazil. Although they have competitions with pins and submissions in Brazil, such as Copa Euclydes Hatem.

[@Almightee1]

How does Gaethje beat khabib wrestling? . Love to see you break this down !

[@Almightee1]

Bashiro did you call Gaethje in the fight with Ferguson? Peace🤔

[@jsvalina3503]

You should start your own "Grappling" promotion like a submission only grappling without the stupid no throws or slams or other limiting rules.

[@tichtran664]

And I believe that catch should keep the pin. It is a way to remind people that both freestyle and folkstyle wrestling had the origin in catch wrestling). With folkstyle being the older version. In fact folkstyle wrestling is a archaic version of catch(without submissions) BEFORE THE SUPLEX CAME INTO IT FROM GRECO ROMANS. Both freestyle and folkstyle wrestling were originally for kids(who couldn't do submissions). But later on the olympics BANNED submissions so freestyle and folkstyle wrestling also became for adults. And yes there is proofs that amateur wrestling used to resemble catch. Watch the youtube video on the 1937 NCAA wrestling championship by Chadi(a practitioner of both judo and bjj). It had guards(body scissor), sweeps, etc. And the athletes back then were wearing "PRO WRESTLING" PANTS. LOL.

[@z31rider24]

Good video. How come Sakuraba did'nt struggle against the Gracies? but beat them? Along with other BJJ Black belts. By the way Sakuraba was trained by Wigan Catch Wrestler Billy Robinson. Sakuraba was already a wrestler before he met Robinson. How come Fedor in his prime was so good? Im only talking about his taken down defense/offense and submussions. Not his striking. Feel free to comment.

[@z31rider24]

@@geekwisdom8969 Good argument. I will say in regard to Ad Santel. He, his style was dominant over 4 or 5 Judo Black belts. Only 1 of those Judo stylist was able to chock him into submission. Was Catch in those matches supperior to Judo? Yes. You make valid points in your info by explaining in great detail and giving your oppinion based on facts, timelines, and evolution of styles.

[@scarred10]

That was in mma,not grappling,sak was just a better mma fighter than those gracies.

[@z31rider24]

@@scarred10 Sakuraba did'nt submit Royler and Renzo?

[@scarred10]

@@z31rider24 it was mma,submission opporrynities are created through striking,its very diffrent to straight grappling.And no they never submitted,the ref stopped both matches.

[@z31rider24]

@@scarred10 Renzo Gracie did'nt get submitted against Sakuraba? Frank Mir did'nt submit Nogera in their Match @ UFC? Khabib did'nt submit Justin? Explain.

[@form_7wrestlingman810]

Catch need a better ruleset. I would say 20 minutes in regulation. 5 miniutes for overtime. In over time have the option for neutral, referee , and front head position.

[@xxFairestxx]

Mindset is one of the biggest differences between CACC and say….BJJ.

[@mikesantini65]

Alot of bjj guys have to quit and abandon moves too like spider guard I've never seen it in MMA except for Spider Rico of course

[@tichtran664]

Well I do agree that the best thing for catch wrestlers to become better is to CROSSTRAIN. Even if in bjj. Like I know this guy named Kevin Lloyd he is mostly a catch wrestler and a freestyle wrestler(since it evolved from catch). But he also have trained in bjj(no gi. In fact he got a silver medal at 2017 empire grappling in nogi competition), JAPANESE juijitsu, sambo, and etc. But I admit he is also a pro wrestler and he learned all those things to make his pro wrestling more well rounded and better. LOL. But trust me he is also a legit catch wrestler. In fact he was certified in catch wrestling BOTH by Scientific Wrestling(you know by Jake Shannon and his group) and Snake Pit Wigan. And he had indeed competed also in freestyle wrestling and catch wrestling(like at Snake Pit Wigan championship).

[@tichtran664]

And another thing that I can't stand about catch wrestling is the fighting between different organizations. Like Jon Strickland(who was student of Billy Wicks) bashed Josh Bartnett as well as Scientific Wrestling(by Jake Shannon). Heck even Curran Jacobs have also bashed Jake Shannon and Josh Bartnett. Even had the nerve to say that Bartnett isn't a catch wrestler(saying he never competed in catch before. Well guess what?! Bartnett won the 2019 Snake PIt Wigan catch wrestling world championship?). Or the arguments in catch wrestling over the chokes/sleeper hold. Some organizations like Catch Wrestling Alliance(once affilated with Snake Pit Wigan) say that the chokes doesn't represent catch wrestling. Even though there are precedent for it. Like Evan "the strangler" Lewis(back when pro wrestling was unscripted).

[@CobDaGOAT]

I aspire to be like coach Peterson

[@jaredmoglia711]

Why didn't you have a sparring round or two with jake?

[@user-nb8dm1gz2t]

I don't think Jake does BJJ at all

[@rippersubmissionwrestling2704]

Because he can't Wrestle or do BJJ! He's called "Fake Shannon" for a reason!

[@takadadojokeith]

Sorry I'm a little late to this. Your video just popped up in my suggestions. I like the perspective on pins. Reminds me of why I've gravitated towards combat wrestling and submission arts wrestling over the past few years. Pins should earn you some points in a well-rounded grappling rule set, but not end the match.

[@MeerkatMotorBoards]

Josh Barnett says he never trained guard his whole career

[@graciederangementsyndrome3669]

Maybe that's why he got subbed by Gordon Ryan

[@CharlesOffdensen]

I thought Catch Wrestling "philosophy" is to always make your opponent work. At least for some Catch Wrestlers.

[@kforcer]

He never said that, he said he never trained Brazilian jiu jitsu.

[@kainickname]

@@graciederangementsyndrome3669 he got subbed by the GOAT of grappling and he was 40 something. He tapped Dean Lister (at the end of his career, it's still something). No (catch) wrestler is gonna TAP the BJJ GOAT in a BJJ tournament, big surprise! What do you think would happen if they fought (yeah, fought) and Gordon sat on his butt? Of course he wouldn't, he'd be forced to wrestle him to get him to the ground, good luck when pretty much all you have is a knee tap.

[@Silence-and-Violence]

@@kainickname wait you know who Gordon Ryan is but think all he has in takedown is knee taps?

[@bblack9532]

This has been around for a long time.

[@RonALampman]

I jokingly call it all Kung Fu, which is actuality is true in the sense that "Kung Fu" translates into "hard work - Kung" and "over time - Fu". I simply call this side of it grappling. Also, many many advanced moves only work on less skilled opponent. Higher levels usually stick much closer to the basics and try to do them faster and stronger than their opponent.

[@kforcer]

I love your channel but I think you're exaggerating the differences. Just look at the guys that came of of catch-wrestling or luta livre and look at what they do and what they teach and evaluate that. Its just grappling, albeit a certain form with a certain history. Just watch the Sakurabas, the Tamuras, the Suzukis, the Rumina Satos, the Hideo Tokoros, the Barnetts, the Shamrocks, the Sanae Kikutas etc. Study their instructional material and evaluate the style based on that. Its just a certain style of grappling and its as legit as any other. The people who define catch wrestling as pins and submissions and people who train for those rules are just a small portion of the people who make-up the history of catch-wrestling. And if you define catch-wrestling as just the people that make up that group, you're ignoring all those great competitors that I listed.

[@bblack9532]

Josh Barnett said it best. Look it up.

[@whosgotthetime]

Seriously wtf KZbin? 20 ads on a 38-minute video?

[@CharlesOffdensen]

Taking someone to Boston Crab was more possible in the past where not so many people trained guard. Nowadays things are obviously different. But if someone doesn't do guard you could do that them to them. Your pin argument is something like a kickboxer arguing a taekwondo person, that pointfighting has a big problem. It is part of the rules of pointfighting not to allow any strike. That is kinda the point by itself. And a lot of kickboxers do pointfighting just to do something different. It is stupid that the wrestlers go to their belly. But again kickboxers do that too. Because in some federations it is forbidden to attack you opponent from the back! And they deliberately turn their back to you. If you ask me, if you are on my back I have already lost. Not just in grapling. You can punch me in the back of my head. If you are behind me in a fight, fight is over. No need for a choke, it is just one way you can end it. So kickboxing and MMA have the same problem as wrestling. Also some catch wrestling tournaments allow chokes, so you can't just turn your back. Catch wrestling may not be a as specialized in submissions as bjj, I see no problem with that. Of course in the past a lot of matches had not pins, just subs. Kickboxing has less techniques allowed than Muay Thai, but they can beat them in a MMA match. But yeah, if you want to preserve Catch, cross-training can only help. Also there are some martial arts that we don't see in UFC today, but are 100% useful. Like savate. A really good savate guy can beat any kickboxer. People don't do it, but it is still effective. Lastly anyone in MMA cross-trains. Ryan Hole and Damien Maya do it. No one wins just with bjj. No one will win with just catch or savate.

[@davidpinon5284]

It seems that in 90s you only met shooto or pancrase guys who mixed true and show moves.

[@temoherbertlopez6019]

He went with that dude of Jake Shannon, he tried to erase the reputation of Curran Jacobs (greatest catch wrestler alive) trying to pretend that Curran's world championship status was not real, in resume, a bastard.

[@samuraisteve2775]

Temo Herbert Lopez Kake Shannon trues to use his time with Billy Robinson to promote himself some as sort of Catch Wrestling Master. Jake forgets that you can’t just show moves, but you actually have to wrestle. Jake is a guy who used his financial resources to train with Billy, who happily taught for good money, hoping he would be some sort of Heir Apparent. Not trying to be a hater, but I have some knowledge and experience associated with That Group. I would recommend one go to Erik Paulson over Jake, as he also spent time with Billy among many others.

[@temoherbertlopez6019]

@@samuraisteve2775 Paulson, he is amazing, sad that he never made it to the UFC.

[@perkinsshaquan770]

As a amateur wrestler going to Jujitsu I got Choked out like 20 times in one day

[@Flow1987]

Catch is King baby!

[@hectoraplicano8400]

You talked about most judo guys not being good at submission . Well that it's true but only for olímpic judo , all traditional stiles of judo are based on submissions

[@elenchus]

traditional judo still wins almost every match with ippon or wazari via throw. I'd wager that fewer than 2% of matches in "traditional" (Kodokan) judo are win via submission.

[@hectoraplicano8400]

@@elenchus traditional judo it was meant for the police . So a throw it's not enough to control an opponent and as someone who trained judo on a soccer field . I can tell you , that you will not win s fight with a throw

[@elenchus]

@@hectoraplicano8400 "traditional judo it was meant for the police" Well, the local police didn't judo until 4 years after it was founded. I think Kano, who wrote quite a lot, has made it clear that judo's main goal was the preservation of dying Japanese martial arts and developing a good sense of discipline and athleticism in young men (he was, more or less, the secretary of education in Japan). At any rate, no, even in traditional judo, very few matches are won with submissions. Almost all matches are won via throw. Judo is, after all, a sport, which is why Kano drew up the organized rules for Japanese jujutsu competition in 1899, not long after judo was founded. Even back in 1889, the rules for judo (and jujutsu, these were basically for the equivalent of K1 or Glory rules, standardized rules in which any Japanese grappler could agree and compete), the rules are vaguely similar to the rules of judo today, with ippons (back then it required two ippons, but matches were 15 minutes), and ippons could be earned by a good throw, pin, or submission. Then, as today, leg locks and small joint locks were prohibited. It was even suggested that tachi waza should represent a roughly 70%/30% split to ne waza. All that said, I agree, judo throws are unlikely to end fights on their own, which is why jiujitsu (not to be confused with jujutsu) had to become a thing. Once judo was being used in proto-MMA fights outside of the judo point system, it became increasingly clear that submissions had to become a priority. It seems as if the idea that fighting on the ground should be de-emphasized was a cultural a priori truth that wasn't seriously challenged at the time and it never occurred to anyone that fighting on the ground might be even better than tachi waza, even though MMA has proven that time and again.

[@joelsook2140]

Here miss my disconnect, I get it I’m big in using what works I I don’t take from other arts and not give the credit where it due… tooooo many BJJ guys are calling a lot of their moves BJJ or will casually be like oh it’s a “ little” wrestling move I learned…. Top level grapplers know you need wrestling/ grappling to win BJJ tournaments now. For those guys it’s about the win 🏆! I honestly have respect for BJJ , back fighting and guard playing has its place. But I’m looking towards the future for American Jujitsu ! Combine BJJ and Wrestling!

[@hermonymusofsparta]

I really feel like your argument could be made for any martial art. Every martial art or combat sport has certain rules that create a higher skill set in a certain area based on that rule set. It's a moot point. Maybe this video is really more directed at Jake Shannon's presentation, more than catch wrestling itself. The man who gets the rules wins the match. If your argument is that to improve your overall fight game you need to learn other martial arts, well then yeah of course.

[@insidetrip101]

I completely agree with you. However, in defense of the video, I do feel that lots of "catch" wrestlers are unnecessarily adversarial toward jiujitsu (and in fairness to them and the craft, jiujitsu hasn't exactly respected catch wrestling throughout their histories either). Honestly, I think its really sad that catch wrestling is in the state that its in, but its less so because catch wrestling has been "lost" and moreso because it evolved into American Folkstyle wrestling, which is essentially catch wrestling without submissions. Because of that, I think it would be really cool to see submissions added back into folkstyle wrestling to see what competitions would be like.

[@redearthpaul178]

Bjj will add anything, as long as it works.

[@dflyshodan]

Do you realize that you scramble and hip heist first so you don’t be in a turtle position...? Then if you are in turtle then you stand up, roll, or do sit outs...

[@1madinjun]

Jake is a certificate salesman, period

[@christophermorales1552]

You will find more answers from American Hook wrestling and Jon Strickland

[@CarMad97ci]

What is the history of “having to take an arc” in a throw in freestyle?

[@TeachMeGrappling]

what I meant was you can’t spike someone directly on their head in freestyle or Greco, however when you throw someone over an arc, it’s their responsibility to tuck and not land on their head. so if you suplex and he lands on his head... it’s not the offender‘s fault, but you can’t lift him in the air, angle him downward and spike him like a football with intent to break his neck. 🤷‍♂️

[@CarMad97ci]

TeachMeGrappling Coach Brian ahh ok, so is that a rule, that there has to be an arc, or a judgement call? Like if no one ends up landing on there head, is there still a foul?

[@jj56910]

@@CarMad97ci You sometimes see it in MMA where the arc is a rule and even if no one is injured the ref can give out warnings and then deduct a point for continued spiking.

[@insidetrip101]

@@CarMad97ci I'm a year late, but no. Its just straight up illegal to pick someone up and drop them on their head in freestyle/greco. I'm not very well versed on what the consequences are if it happens (the rules for international wrestling change very frequently), but disqualification is on the table especially if the opponent is unable to continue. And if your question is whether or not how do they distinguish, they actually define it very precisely. Your opponent's feet have to *arc* (hence his use of the word) over his head. So basically there has to be a significant rotation of the opponents body. Its really easy to distinguish when this happens or when it doesn't and its even less contentious than when someone gets disqualified for a "slam" in bjj (which really isn't that contentious either).

[@CarMad97ci]

@@insidetrip101 appreciate it all the same bro

[@AdobadoFantastico]

They're all just brands.

[@bluwng]

Has Jake ever competed? What makes him an expert? Farmer Burns a legend and founder in Catch was known for not being able to be choked out due to his huge neck, Jake is no Farmer Burns.

[@CarMad97ci]

A really slick guard player can make a very hard time for a strong wrestler... but then what about striking? No one (except tony Ferguson) elects to be on bottom in the ufc, and that’s without head kicks to a grounded opponent! Don’t get me wrong, a wrestler can get stuffed, and be in a very bad position, but imagine being put on your back without your choice, and you’ve got to fight your way up without getting kicked or kneed in the face... The best is wrestling plus bjj. Or high level bjj, with wrestling, like Damian Maia I wish I started wrestling earlier 😂😂

[@elenchus]

I think the common misconception is that the guard is a desirable place to be anywhere in jiujitsu. Unless you happen to be highly specialized in guard fighting, you would almost always prefer any top position to the guard. You have to have a good guard game not because it's where you want fights to go, but because it's a position you find yourself in all the time.

[@johnmagee2245]

Also on the otherhand alot of jitz guys soon dont like feeling the weight down style of a catch wrestler as every second your being crushed and sapped. Get your legs spread and and bum up in the air and drive your weight down constantly. Some guys will just tap from top pressure

[@DanTheWolfman]

What the heck do you know about grappling? Well....ok...I guess we both have been combining everything before it was common...and you do have the 2nd best grappling channel after CatchJitsu s positional playlist. We will see how upset I get about Catch after I listen to it all. Oh p.s. funny how all the Brazilians teach to catch the far arm in oma plata nowadays your cruciplata style and then do a LeBell/Wolfman style surfboard stretch on that arm now

[@TeachMeGrappling]

Catch basically sucks Dan. You need to Make Catch Great Again.

[@DanTheWolfman]

@@TeachMeGrappling I've been doing my best hell I systematized positions before it was popular. Then suddenly there was all these catch associations made by either a so so wrestler or a good wrestler and his bjj brown belt friend and boom suddenly everyone but me is selling catch certificates.

[@rippersubmissionwrestling2704]

@@DanTheWolfman Too bad bro you're a fraud along with guys like Fake Shannon and Fakepitusa!