My Thoughts on Mythic+ in Season 1 of The War Within So Far...

[@beebeemw]

There’s something really weird going on with keys, because above a 5 there’s pretty much only siege, mists and necrotic wake listed, just cannot find anything else.

[@MostlyFish21]

Dude I'm having the same issue. I've never seen anything like this happen. I keep on thinking LFG is bugged somehow

[@gxxkc8074]

@@MostlyFish21 it is bugged just search specific dungeon or tinker with the filters

[@SuacoRV]

Yes, my whole list is like 90% mists and necrotic and a few siege here and there. I asked this a few times in groups but nobody really replied so i thought it was a me problem.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya I have heard a lot of reports of this. Try searching for individual keys. I have had no issues with that so far.

[@gxxkc8074]

@heythereguysitsMetro yea it's cuz u r searching in a higher bracket that doesn't cap the limit of keys of pre-made so the bug cannot exist.

[@omega1231]

I've personally given up on m+, i pug because i have a super wonky schedule and i just want to play, but pugging as a healer .. the best way i can say it is, the heart palpitations are not worth the reward. It feels soooooo bad, literally shaking from the adrenaline and stress then getting gold for my trouble.. Soloing delves are much more my pace and i actually feel rewarded for my effort, i also don't have to constantly correct the mistakes of others. I agree that punishing mistakes harshly forces people to learn, but it also forces people to quit. I've learned my lesson, i deal with the affix, i kick, i stun, i dispell, i dps, i heal and still the dps is randomly dying for god knows what reason. It's miserable and as a healer, it is so difficult not to take it as your fault when people are dying, and people are dying alot to everything. It's just miserable.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

If you are having heart palpitations from playing a game you need to get outside and get some exercise. This is unhealthy both physically and mentally.

[@wiskeeamazingdancer4964]

​@@heythereguysitsMetrois basically the norm for pug healers

[@ireallysuckatthisgame2194]

Your second paragraph is telling me that you’re doing everything in your power to succeed. If that’s truly the case, then the people around you aren’t putting the same effort in as you are, and you shouldn’t take offense to that. You shouldn’t take the blame of a key failing on yourself. I understand failing a key can be frustrating, I do it all the time. My keys have been hovering between 3s-6s this whole week as a tank and honestly I could give a fuck less, and I’m in the same “work fucks up my gaming schedule” boat. You’re doing the best you can. Don’t stress yourself over it. It’s obviously not physically doing you any favors. Just have some patience and wait for everyone else to catch up.

[@antons7210]

The healing state sucks right now, but if it's stressing you out that much, I'd probably stay away from healing in general lol

[@corb352]

I chose healer for those heart palpidations! Lets me know im ALIVE!

[@Belphcrew]

I dont really mind any of the dungeons specifically. I like the variety. What i dont like are the "healer check" bosses like Stitchflesh and the last bosses in CoT and AraKara. As a tank ive had to solo them both in sixes and up because we dont have the dispels/heals cant keep up with rot damage. At the end of the day it might be a DPS issue and bosses living too long. Feels bad though to have such easy bosses and routing to then wipe for the last 15min of the key at the end.

[@gregogresky4286]

Party skill issue

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya sadly that's why tyrannical in every dungeon is going to be much harder than what we had before. Just another example!

[@alaundo1088]

I love the basketball analogy; the height of elation followed by the height of frustration.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya seen it a million times in both directions. Duke's comback against Louisville a few years back is the best one. Down 22 at half I believe.

[@zoedawn7125]

Also have to take into fact the 'accordian' effect, where the beginning of the season all players are more or less nearby eachother, on both sides of the accordian. As it slowly stretches out when the season gets longer the better players and worse players become slowly more far away from eachother. I do believe that at the start of an expansion the good players are present in 5-9 keys farming gear.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

This was just a discussion more about the dungeons than the playerbase. Other than that one guy I would not say we had any outliers in keys.

[@kozstreamstv]

The thing that bothers me the most is that we're punished 3 times overall when doing a M+ which end up in depletion. For any key over 7 anyway, first, 15 second death penalties, 2nd, they key depletes, meaning now you have to run a 6 to go fail another 7, this needs to be changed so keys no longer deplete, and 3, you get less crests for failed keys. Its never been this punishing to fail a M+ key. I honestly think with the changes most people will get KSM week 2 and stop playing, or login once a week to do their key. I've already experienced a bunch of sub 7 keys where there was 1 wipe and people insta left. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that as we go up in gear 7-10's should start feeling easier, but our gear will increase but player skill level will remain the same.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@kozstreamstv you don't get punished additionally for failing a key because of an affix that makes it harder to upgrade a key. The affix is what caused the failure, not the punishment. But ya at the end of the day I agree that changes need to come. But it's been this way for a long while and people do keep coming back so I wouldn't worry. The big thing to think about is the lack of affixes changing weekly so people will quit more over repetitive gameplay rather than anything else, in my eyes.

[@kozstreamstv]

@@heythereguysitsMetro So i see that 2 ways, the casuals will quit after week 2 and they have KSM cause its very easy to get. Those pushing IO will continue, but what that tells me is this new design caters more for the 1%, but I've even hear them saying this is going to get boring fast. Once you reach the world of 1 shots cause the tuning is so egregious and no matter what comp you come with fails, why keep trying? The people asked for this, so you are right there, i just wanted some changes to the affixes or stop having bolster + fort on some weeks, it was just cancer.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@kozstreamstv well now you see the fruits of your labor. Be careful what you wish for next time! They are never going to just get rid of something and make things easier in this game. They have stats and design goals that indicate that things need to be a certain way. So removal of something always comes with a return.

[@kozstreamstv]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Oh i never wanted them to completely remove everything, just modernize some of it. Why do you think so many people interact with the new L2 affix? Because its a kiss/curse. Would have been nice to see them cook with that a little rather than adding a 15 sec death penalty. I've had 3 people die in a 6 and the healer insta leaves. This current season is the most toxic i've experienced when it comes to pugging so far.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@kozstreamstv bit early to go that far either way.

[@Mat_C]

I've been playing survival hunter this season taking a break from aug. Man is it rough out there to pug. I still haven't even been able to get get 7 done, pushed own key up few times. But after one wipe the groups always disband, gotta love the new affix system. Keep going up to 7 deplete down to 5 try again lol.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya sadly that's going to happen at a few key levels. 7 is a big jump, 10, and 13 as well.

[@straypurplecat]

Been missing the streams but it sounds like you're having a blast. I haven't gotten to play much so I'm still floating around the +4 area LOL. But even down there it's a wild difference depending on the players brought in the pug setting. Some of these keys I've completed with like 10-15 minutes left over and others we're over and skirting the hour mark for just completing it. Def noticing everyone doing the affix though, which is awesome to see. I myself, haven't had to use it much but gorefiends grasp is AMAZING for snatching all the balls in situations where the DPs might be too far away or tunneling. I also don't feel weak as BDK even with the supposed nerfs they laid on us. Overall I think you hit many nails on the head in terms of how this season feels. Strange, but kind of in a fun way. The gearing because of holding back on season start, the way they set up key levels and changed affixes. I think by S2 and 3 they'll really figure out the balancing since a lot of what they're trying right now is very new. S1 is a wild ride so far though. 💜

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@straypurplecat glad to see you! Great perspective and love the optimism about the future.

[@hbups]

This week, for me, has been absolutely cursed. I play WoW kinda sporadically so I don't have a guild/friends to play with so I pug absolutely everything and my god the gap in skill level is insane. Tanks are frankly a rarity and every tank that's invited there's a 50/50 chance they're either very good or have never done M+ before. People absolutely do NOT care about mechanics, they don't care to learn and so wipe after wipe they continue to not care. The difficulty spike of particular dungeons is immense; Grim Batol, Stonevault and Siege are almost unplayable in pugs above a +5 because of what I talked about earlier. There are soso many mechanics that will just one shot people on anything above a +2 and still there's just a complete lack of effort and care from what feels like 75% of m+ players right now, and from a healer POV it feels even worse. The amount of times I've been on the last boss in Ara Kara on track to 2 or even 3 chest it and then DPS just dropping left and right because they don't know how the mechanics work is depressing to say the least. Not to mention the reduction in tank defensives/healing making things even more stressful. Another issue is there are what seems to be barely any keys going right now. Almost every key above a +5 seems to be only NW/Siege/Mists. Finding a +6 Stonevaults is practically impossible. The past few days have gone like this: do 1-2 keys and time, do another and have someone be toxic or leave early or not know what they're doing, be completely mentally drained because of the depletion. This expansion has been SO good so far in every aspect EXCEPT M+, but I can't even blame the devs for most of the problems. It's genuinely just a player-to-skill gap. Until something changes, people move on or whatever my very little time to play will sadly be spent elsewhere.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya unfortunately the community is the worst part about the game at times. Please consider recording the runs you feel like are wild and submitting them for review though!

[@peanutbutterpandapuffs]

Been super fun ! While I understand the complaints, I feel like the difficulty needs to be there since what is the fun if its easy. I think people are tied up with how its "hard" to get to 2k rating but in reality the people that are failing keys and complaining about other people, are probably the same people who are doing like subpar dps and not doing mechanics/using their defensives correctly

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

100 percent they are. We already have multiple videos showing it haha

[@Garbage315]

On nec wake +12 we did same strategy as you for Stitchflesh. Pally hearthed back and went into his full ST build and with 3 spears + lust we powered right through it. It's essentially a free key outside of that fight.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Garbage315 ya I agree. It's one of the easiest right now for sure.

[@vearheart42]

The tank in Dawnbreaker needs to be like 10x the normal size while on a mount. Make the tank EASY to find and follow.

[@lucasbuttenbender]

Or make the tank glow when mounted, leaving behind a trail of light over its path XD

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@vearheart42 haha ya it's not a bad idea at all.

[@Tyzen7]

Just watch the minimap lmao

[@Draghful]

Two other possible solutions that already work and just need to be utilized. 1. Download MDT, ask the tank to link his route and you'll see where he'll go before he even goes there. 2. Make the tank just use pings to indicate where to go. I do both and have no issues with pathing in this dungeon now.

[@mayo5903]

I keep pinging myself as tank when flying

[@MTweedC4]

If people have trouble with dawnbreaker: You can use steady flight with 820% speed. Makes it easier to not panic and follow the tank, hover over the enemy and drop off your mount at the correct spot with the tank

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, I would recommend this for sure. Sadly, they have to do it for it to help.

[@deseanroot75]

We pushed a 10 Ara Kara with like 20 seconds left and 6 deaths. Whats insane is that outside of deaths we made a couple of other mistakes (pulling 2 big beetles together. Failed chains). But the takeway is without the 6 deaths we would have finished with almost 2 minutes on the keg even with the other mistakes. The timers are very generous, just pull smarter and dont die and you should be able to time anything.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@deseanroot75 arakara is just a huge outlier in that way. I have two double upgraded 10s in there now.

[@TJ.Helviath]

Excited to see where this seasons leads BDKs. Much like our HP the ranking on every list is going up and down. Also the difficulty curve feels interesting. (Also commenting per Introduction pinned :p )

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@TJ.Helviath probably won't be a good season for blood, in terms of the meta unless they are top damage.

[@scottegly89]

I am healing and some dungeons are ROUGH, but I am absolutely loving this season.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad to hear you are enjoying it

[@DeDoubleDizzle]

3:30ish when you talked about ring of peace it reminded me of 29 dispels i saw from a hunter with arcane torrent in a single key. Just a reminder about the blood elf racial Arcane Torrent

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya, but then you have to stare at those horrendous blood elf animations.

[@timhundhausen1386]

Great fan of your content! I just got to 2k pugging and I'm quitting M+ for this season. Between DF S3 and S4 and now, this is the worst time I have had playing M+ which is the game mode I enjoy most in WoW. I'm probably not a top player but hopefully not terrible, and at the end of the day I play this game to have fun. I feel the dungeon pool is awful and the current state of tuning is simply not fun. Massive respect for you pugging high keys every season!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@timhundhausen1386 thanks! Ya the dungeon pool sucks. But blood dk is always fun so I'll always enjoy.

[@timhundhausen1386]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I've played Fury in S3 (great fun), VDH in S4 (way overtuned but really enjoyable) and dipped into Mage this time for raid comp. Just gonna get my AOTC and then sit this season out, good on anyone who doesn't have as negative a mindset as myself though

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@timhundhausen1386 Nice man if you have any questions lemme know!

[@timmaytheguk]

i quit the game. The game is not fun for me, it's just tedious. The game feels like a pain in the ass for some reason for me. I got my m+ score to 1000 or so and was like f this, these dungeons are not fun and are just annoying and tedious. It was time to say good bye.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

At least you gave it an honest try. Getting to 1k is impressive.

[@timmaytheguk]

@@heythereguysitsMetro thank you sir~

[@Rattja]

Monk is probably the best class to deal with the orb affix, Ring of Peace hits multiple times, so you put it down and even if they are still spawning in they just get cleared as they spawn, so no big deal if you put it down a bit too soon, it's great. Dawnbreaker is a special dungeon, I don't think I've seen one this buggy before. My favorite was healing it, and I managed to aggro the caster that runs out by the entrance in the very beginning. People just bolted for the first actual pack and completely ignored that one as we just continued on the ship. The result is that it gained infinite range and pelted me with bolts the entire run. Would probably have reset if we had a full wipe, but I didn't want to do that so just healed through it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya dawnbreaker is going to really have some wild moments just because of how the community is anymore.

[@andymars650]

Glad to hear you're enjoying it! I'm also mostly a pug/solo player, and I think they kinda messed up by making delves too easy for the rewards. I play more casually than you and I usually enjoy the lower (2-7ish) M+ just because it's less competitive and people are nicer. Now it feels like they're obsolete from a gearing perspective. 10s also have way too many people who paid for a boost and don't know what they're doing. Hopefully that sorts itself out in a few weeks. I'm planning to tank on an alt, so I'll be watching your stuff to see what's up from a tanking perspective. Keep up the good work, Metro!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya the gearing situation is certainly weird. But that's a good thing if you aren't interested in pushing, you can just stick to delves!

[@vincenthamel3420]

Many dungeons have major tuning issues as you get in the 12s. 3rd boss NW abomination still tick for 600k on everyone as long as the abom is alive... and they stack if 2 abom are up. Erunax tentacle in grim batol do not despawn; this is fine if you kill him in 1 cycle or two, but once you get to the 4th cycle the entire ground is covered in tentacles. Mist first boss still have the same issues he had during shadowland ; in higher keys the HP scale out of control, you need 4 phases to kill the boss, it take 7+ minute in a dungeon where you don't decide half the route. Stonevault first 3 boss... are insane. Then the 4th boss can be solo'd by a tank because he does 0 damage. the 2nd boss in siege desperatly need a visual on her frontal. If you can call her 270 degree , 40 yard range "clear the deck" a frontal. Blizzard already nerfed the 2 biggest outlier. Hoping they keep on tuning some more.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

im sure more will come as people get to that level more

[@normannseils3936]

The second boss in siege frontal isn’t actually the problem. She has annother mechanic that makes her shoot a random player of no one is in melee range. As the tanks dodges the frontal this happens very easily. You need to stay almost on her model to not trigger this attack.

[@lukemonnin7965]

honestly though your right for how hard some of the stonevault bosses are the 4th one is kinda a joke i dont even notice the dmg in +11's

[@danoizedafunk753]

Yeah I did Grim for the first time today. It was very hard, we didn’t time it, but it was the most fun I have had in a dungeon so far. I think they did a great job at it. I think group comps in there will be interesting too. I was praying our mage would de-curse at some point lol spoiler, he didn’t 😂

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@danoizedafunk753 ya decursing is HUGE in there too. Great dungeon though all around.

[@jeromevent4548]

In my Experience monk is the 2nd best class for dealing with the orbs, ring of peace can sometimes hit all of them, but usually hits about 8 or them. The actual best class is druid with incapacitating roar.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Nothing will beat ring because its persistent and can be placed at range, so you don't have to move towards them as the player. Incap roar is a circular disruption, so that's second best for sure. But nothing beats ring. If you aren't hitting them all, that's just your fault. Its not like Roar is a wider range than ring.

[@justanaveragebalkan]

Tyranical and Fortified both active is just wild, along with all the annoying tank/healer affixes that totally get ignored by the npcs (dps) in the group.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yup. I tried to warn people how hard it was going to be!

[@Soldruid]

They just want the mount fam Do a few 5s and a couple 7 and call it a day. No one has time ppl work 14 hours a day lol

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Huh? Who are you talking about here?

[@popojaga7312]

I love changes up to +12 except death timer affix , that only makes pugs more toxic... but at 12 losing positive affix buff and getting extra 20% mob scaling on top is wild, rather than having nice progress steps for various skill levels of players, we gonna have this massive difficulty gap

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya a LOT of people are going to have all 12s upgraded and struggle in 13s

[@ZACKandATTACK]

I don't necessarily like the new affix system, but I do prefer it to the old one. The extra death timer sucks and feels really bad, but at least it isn't making my actual gameplay feel miserable. The best affixes in the old system were the ones that were irrelevant to where you basically ignored them. However, even those affixes felt awful when you were not in a good coordinated group. Sanguine got nerfed how many times, but it was still really annoying with certain mobs that loved to stand in it forever or when your tank isn't moving perfectly when a mob dies. Afflicted was one of the easiest affixes in the game if you had 2 people dispelling. However, I still had to solo dispel and heal the other one constantly or else I would lose all my haste and we would wipe. It's only the first week, but the Xalatath affix feels a lot better in shaking up gameplay week to week without making the game less fun. Every class has an AoE stop that they can use when the orbs spawn to then get a pretty good reward. The mobs do get buffed if you fail, but the incentive structure makes it so that others want to be dealing with the affix instead of ignoring it completely and letting it be the healer's problem.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@ZACKandATTACK ya I can totally understand that perspective. For me the thing that "feels" the worst though, is doing a full key and not succeeding. This new affix situation seems like it's going to make that happen a lot more so that's less favorable for me.

[@Muftaay]

The hps requirement in cot is ridiculuously unbalanced compared to other dungeons

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

correct

[@skrabio]

Dawnbreaker for me has always been either a breeze or a complete downward spiral. It also kills me that you cannot mount on a repair mount because of the flying buff.

[@steiige]

Jeeves (engi), Reaves (engi), Auto hammer (auction house) and there’s some others. There’s also an anvil you can repair at towards the back of the ship.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@skrabio oh wow didn't realize that. There is a repair NPC on the boat though at least.

[@Ken-xr2xp]

Had great experiences with the orb affix. Tyr is the one that's blocking my groups. It has a way of sifting the players in the group.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya

[@DaikoLP]

thank you for the video 🎉 i don’t even find stonevault keys 😂

[@MostlyFish21]

Dude same here, the only keys that show up for me are Seige, Necrotic Wake, and Mists 😅

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You can always search individually too don't forget!

[@stephaniet1162]

Im guessing there will be another couple of tuning passes on these dungeons.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@stephaniet1162 good guess.

[@andrewpaige9152]

I've given up on m+ first week every person expects you to know the fights like a pro, secondly people already gate keep on your mythic score for a 2 key stone and the gear is mostly shit you don't need it's warbound for another class like wtf

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Best thing you can do is just do your own key. Don't be scared to hop on the beta next time though. That was the good thing about the epic edition. Free guaranteed beta access.

[@Spudwow]

I personally see it as at the moment we only really have 1 Affix, that being the Xal'atath weekly- because no other affixes add anything to the dungeon and it doesn't slow you down as much compared to the likes of bolstering, sanguine, bursting, necrotic etc etc etc. I also believe this has been great for the meta, genuinely I am surprised at the variety of the specs I am seeing whilst pugging, the most common spec I've seen is a shaman healer but outside of that the dps has been greatly varied from all classes and all specs (except fire mage, out of 57 keys across all 6 tanks, not seen a single one of them if it's a mage it's been either frost/arcane, mostly arcane) Do I think the Challenger's peril extended death penalty is harsher than needed yeah but we're also going in week 1 M+ with at the start like 590-600 and already getting to those 7s, now with people reaching the 610-615 range quite easily it's barely even a consideration that it is an affix because deaths are so low I'm yet to do any 12s, but 10s are a great bit of fun - I am highly engaged in pulling the correct groups and sizes, making sure my defensives are rolling properly, kiting where needed - as much as I hated the tank changes because I still whole heartedly believe we should be the masters of our own fates, people are.. seemingly for the most part actually using their kit and helping out, so I'm not all doom and gloom about it now but do I still want us to return to our former glory.. oh hell yeah. I believe the real teller of how the affix and M+ shake up is going to be told in a few weeks when you've separated those that push high keys from those that just get their weekly done and those that just dip their toe in and when that does happen, I'll be interested to see the thoughts of the higher community as the pulls will always, for the entire season, be the same size it's going to be come very cookie cutter in a way, because there will be no need to change week from week it's just going to be everything hurts from the dungeon itself which is fricking phenomenal no need to deal with external bs factors Can I ask, what has been the most challenging part about City of Threads? As from my experience the most struggling dungeon I have is Grim Batol when I'm not on my druid, currently stuck at a 8 for this on druid and 5-6 on my other tanks and Siege of Boralus is a 5-6 due to the 3rd boss, also I think the aggro range for alot of SoB could we looked at as it is so easy to go over count due to the tight streets.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Deaths are so low!? what game are you playing haha Hardest part of city of threads is the bosses. All four are real challenges, one harder than the last.

[@Spudwow]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Genuinely, I’ve had 2 keys go above 10 deaths, one being a mutual disband as it was 2 wipes on Stitchflesh with a few silly deaths before then and the other was a stupid late night +10 after raid where I already wasn’t playing my best, rest of them

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Spudwow Probably just you not paying full attention to the death counter. Leaf through the higher keys and see just how many deaths we are observing. Especially the 10s for completions. Some are getting close to triple digits.

[@Spudwow]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I don’t pay attention to the death counter, aye you’re right. I take the details death log at the end of the run and then input the number to the spreadsheet. Granted it’s only 1 week worth of data. But hey, I’ll happily take this luck of low death runs then if it’s so bad. Getting barely any gear so will happily take “quicker” and plain sailing runs to attempt for more gear

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Spudwow Care to link that?

[@saenct]

i am not sure if i like this new dungeon model. we are now doing 8 - 10, with enough depletes to jump between those levels. while that's nice i dont know what to expect from the season? For some of us getting portals is the goal. well that's probably achieved in the second week. The rest of us who want to push already said that it feels off, like: we have a really long way to go gear wise, but we'Re already at 10s, as in: it feels to fast. There is a general fear that we hit the 12's which will be way harder and then it is waiting for vault gear for a couple of weeks until people want to progress again. I don'T know how to describe it but it'S a weird sentiment in our group right now

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya its weird everywhere tbh

[@mikeyj213]

When you were going over stats it would’ve been cool to get a visual in the video of what you were looking at

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You can just visit the spreadsheet!

[@GriffithzDream]

Ive played M+ religiously for all the previous seasons and xpacs but haven't had time to jump into this one yet. Anything I should know before I dive in?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Provided you are caught up on all the changes to dungeons and stuff since last expansion, its just the same old "know the dungeons" etc.

[@kittysgomeoww]

ive been playing blood dk and i cant do even 6s with pugs, they just always die and dont know mechanics and someone either leaves or we dont time it. im not having any luck.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@kittysgomeoww if you are running into wild keys make sure you record them and submit them!

[@el3ctros]

Stitchflesh still requires a lot of healing, have had healers struggle post nerf. The 2nd golem comes out fast after you use the third hook from the first one. Hard to not have 2 golems out and overwhelm the healer. I actually did use control undead on the 2nd boss just like shadowlands because people can't interupt the frost volleys even when I grip them and get 1 volley myself.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Sounds like you are just killing boss too slowly. Make sure all weapons are used there and everyone is ready for good single target burst. You should only need to pull him down twice total. There shouldn't even be a chance for the extra golems to get out of control.

[@lukemonnin7965]

@@heythereguysitsMetro a strat that has been going around is to have 2 people save their shields weapon for stitch so if a second golem comes down you use it to help mitigate the dmg but ideally only 1 should ever be alive so if it looks like stitch isnt going to get 1 shot you swap to the golem after the fixation to take him down

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@lukemonnin7965 Unless you have something major there will never be more than 1 alive, so anyone suggesting saving a shield for that is just planning on sucking basically.

[@CharlieVictor212]

What counts as defensive for tank busters? Icebound Rune tap Lichborne? First boss of stone vault needs a defensive for each smash right? Do you get a tank buster “block” buff after death striking too?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I don't believe this is a thing anymore. The spells don't do anything other than what they say on the spell. You simply use them in the way you see fit for survival based on the difficulty you are having.

[@zachemorgan]

the gearing thing is not an issue its been great imo. i didnt do one delve so i had none of that gear i couldnt do heroic with my guild and its hard to get an invite. i think gearing is great atm because i was able to keep up somewhat on ilvl with people exploting and pushing it to the max. The fights are hard if u don't know whats happening which is why the lower u go they almost get harder in a weird way. +2's on my monk are feeling like +8's on my shaman simply because of the players. I'm finding the 3rd boss in grim batol as a wall boss, people don't switch to adds people are still getting launched into the abyss in a +7 mind u seeing alot of tanks not knowing to run from mace.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

If you are running into wild runs of grim batol record them and send them in! Gonna be a treasure trove of great moments this season.

[@Kelastov]

Great video mate, really enjoyed the storytelling about your key experiences. I'm playing disc priest this season, first time since cata and I'm having a load of fun. Keeping a spreadsheet of all the pugs aswell!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Kelastov nice well let's get together at the end of the season and compare the stats! I'm eager to see the difference.

[@Kelastov]

@heythereguysitsMetro more than happy to compare them then!

[@MethielVerd]

I agree dwanbreaker is an easy dungeon, with one condition. the amount of bugs in there that will cause random deaths is absurd and it never should have gone live with all of them. pallies being able to BOP off the "debuff" allowing you to fly during the first boss. (this may have been fixed since i watched it happen) unable to mage blink, or warlock circle (NOT GATE) the beams on first boss without getting hit. first boss exploding and deleteing people clearly not inside the bubble. ground effects not showing up during the first and last boss while on the boat (could be lumped in with general ground effects not showing up anywhere but so far ive only encountered this while on the boat) falling through / off the flying boats before the first boss. after last boss, will wipe the group if the "debuff" (the light) falls of while on the little RP boat to the chest most of these are controllable by players and just add extreme frustration to the dungeon in general and will make it commonplace when you get to the "death affix" level of keys people will just drop as soon as more than one person has a problem. very pessimistic view, but i just ran one and tank couldnt land on the side boats at all followed by group disband

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@MethielVerd oh ya been talking about all this for a long time now. It's the worst idea for a mythic plus ever. But at least it's easy.

[@Rolisea]

I did successfully teleport on my lock through the beams on the first boss last night so that may have been fixed, but experienced both falling through the ship when flying over to the side ships and dying on the little transport ship at the end (did not realize it was because of the light debuff running out though!) which honestly just made me laugh but those sort of bugs do get old quick!

[@valrath84]

I give you props cause tanking m+ in pugs this week has been nothing but misery

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya? Maybe it's just blood but it's been very fun so far. Could be the lack of fortified too haha

[@In_Dog_We_Trust]

Another thing i think is bullshit is the double recast that mobs do when you use a crowd control like knockup for shaman, i.e you see a mob casting a spell you have to interrupt (sometimes 2 mobs at the same time sometimes MORE!!!) you knock them up and immediately after they begin casting the same spell that you just interrupted.......if you're trying to run higher keys you might wanna get used to running with a static or at least using VC so you can rotate your kicks with a proper group comp. Im only 1800+ rating on resto shammy and running anything above a 6 or 7 right now just annoys me....

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya that was an intentional change to help mitigate how easy some classes could lock down mobs. Its working as expected tbh. Its just harder.

[@In_Dog_We_Trust]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I understand its working as intended, but raising the skill ceiling required for entry mythics (im speaking of low level mythics) it doesnt really help players that are new to mythics get into mythics, ive had a few friends "nope" out and not even attempt a mythic higher then a +2, instead they rather gear in delves' which i find boring......eventually people are going to hit a wall in pugs because of some of the changes blizzard implemented is all im saying. And i can already tell right now that they are going to end up nerfing some of this shit. On a side note there been some really garbage spawn times that are completely out of players control when the Orbs that Xal drops end up in a out of reach or in the bad (out side of the circle the last boss spawns in Grim Batol for example, 2nd boss in Ara-Kara City of Echoes also has this mechanic).....

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@In_Dog_We_Trust right and I'm reminding you that they intentionally made this change so they are aware of what may or may not happen because of it.

[@In_Dog_We_Trust]

@@heythereguysitsMetro cool

[@carterbacon99]

Hey Metro, how would I go about submitting a run for one of the pug run review type videos? Just had a Dawnbreaker run that I feel would be good for a few laughs.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@carterbacon99 best way is to email it to me. [e-mail] You'll need to upload it somewhere first. My vote would be Google drive, and if you choose that make sure you go to the share icon on the top right and choose "anyone with the link" when you send it to me.

[@Rabanthebrain]

My preferred spec (aff) has a bug randomly pulling mobs 60+ yards away or out of los. Bricked so many keys before i realized what was happening. Least favorite start to a season ever. Bug after bug after bug too in a couple dungeons (siege third boss)

[@Muftaay]

Ive heard its the weapon enchant. But yeah same, ive pulled groups into boss fights that are nowhere close to the boss.. Were in a beta again

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh ya? Somehow I never saw that myself.

[@Rabanthebrain]

@@Muftaay hmm I hadn't noticed it as demo with the same gear, I'm kinda afraid to do keys on lock now lol

[@JumboCod91]

why is everything Necrotic Wake?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

bug with the ui

[@Imorteus]

shamans thunderstorm and stun totem are both perfect for the orbs as well

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

yes

[@Neugo_play]

Xalatath affix is good, my issue is if i try aoe blind them, it only works on 1 target if i target them, but i can aoe blind all if there is a mob nearby. (Also some funnel for rogues while they live). Its hard to measure difficulty of keys cause its very early, and DF S1 started rocky as well. Unnerfed RLP was unbeatable

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Neugo_play oh that's an interesting bug(?) with blind there. Thanks for alerting me to that.

[@Neugo_play]

@@heythereguysitsMetro guess its the same for any targeted CC that should cleave. Not many comes to mind, supernova and thats it?

[@zackmapes7732]

I am a firm believer that we should not have any keystones at all. They've proven with the delve system that they can create a way for us to select the level we want, and the level we get is based on the lowest member of the party. Why not do that with m+? Let us go to any dungeon we want, and select the "key" level based on what we have unlocked. They can toy with what happens when you don't time. But honestly I don't think depletion should be a thing either. Not getting gear/crests/score is punishment already. Let us choose to do a lower level if we are not able to do the higher levels. Just my thoughts.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya that's a conversation for a much different video than this, but I can agree with a lot of that idea. I think it needs a lot of work to make sense, but it can be done.

[@zackmapes7732]

For sure. It’s definitely not a fully fleshed out idea.

[@docrains9949]

This may be easy for high level players "elite players" but casual people don't find it easy at all

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@docrains9949 I promise you I am in no way a high level elite player. These are simply under tuned compared to the gear we had access to. Now if you didn't get that gear, well you'll be behind on that front. Hit up some delves and enjoy the smooth sailing until past 7

[@s0515033]

Was in siege and the first boss had people actively kiting the boss around bombs. So many silly deaths. I can understand mistakes, but stuff like that makes low keys impossible 😂

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya we have seen some bad ones. Did the two hour ten siege where the mage was just walking away from the boss and getting meleed instead of blinking and being in position earlier.

[@benji9465]

The dungeon pool just sucks, honestly. If I see a siege key in my inventory I just ignore it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Gonna be hard to get score that way huh?

[@benji9465]

@@heythereguysitsMetro im actually having a ton of fun in this raid tier, so I don't really mind having a lower score. People will always accept a pres/aug anyways so I'm not sweating it lol

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@benji9465 As long as you are having fun haha

[@Cream_89]

My biggest problem is i didnt have time to do keys in the start of the week so now im basically stuck in the 'trenches' as i like to call the lower M+. There is some incredibly bad players that will die to every mechanic, won't interrupt, probably don't even have defensive CD's on their bars. It's been rough so far. Managed to finish a +4 NW and i did almost twice the dps as number 2, i did 1.3m overall the others did 700k, but we still managed to 2 chest it. Just frustrating when you know you skilled enough to do +7 or higher and play with better players but you have no way of getting into those groups when you not done M+ from the start.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya, best thing to do from there is your own key until you get it higher imo

[@lizzaroo]

My main issue is how long it takes to actually get into a group. Even with 595 ilvl it takes me ages to get into groups for M0 and 2+ to actually get started. I'm not sure if it's because so many DSP classes are pretty good right now so the sheer number of people applying makes it very easy to skim off the top and pick out the very top of ilvl applicants or if people have a distorted view of the ilvl you need in these lower keys. Every key I've managed to get into has been a fine, in both doing DPS and not falling over from a single hit. Letting us apply to more than 5 groups at a time could help with this issue.

[@AzureLaaz]

Agreed - this is still an issue at 602 ilvl on a Rogue with ~1400 score. It may be because I played Shaman in the past seasons and I just got invited for lust but it has been way tougher to get invited this season.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right ya that's why you just do your own key. Especially for low difficulty content, no reason not to.

[@antons7210]

Yeah, just do your own key tbh. Not worth signing up for others as DPS at least

[@yarnf]

Welcome to wow tbh

[@Nightstalker314]

Siege of Boralus and Grim Batol need some adjustments. Overall the dungeons with the lowest success rates according to raiderIO. Made a post about it on competitive WoW (same account name as here).

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Hmm maybe at the absolute top end? No shot those are the hardest atm at the level I'm at. Siege is actually one of the easiest I'd say.

[@Nightstalker314]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Might be for experienced people. It performed the worst in all of BFA according to RIO. It was also progress/reputation locked within the first few weeks of BFA. People in general have very little experience with it.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Nightstalker314 what's the reasoning for grim batol then?

[@Nightstalker314]

@@heythereguysitsMetro It being new for most players. only a few 100 people really tested it on Beta or chain ran it the week before. I'd guess there is first of all it being not part of the regular dungeons that anyone goes through and then also being quite different (1st boss, lots of trash) from the Cata version that many have burned into their brain.

[@birds-and-bones]

Just wanted to check in: As promised, I'm also keeping track of my runs. I'm not very interested in the classes coming with me, more in the quality of the experience, so I'm focusing on keeping notes on the social interactions / what went wrong. And I removed the affix tab, since that one seems superfluous this season.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I think as long as the week column exists its fine. Does the stats tab seem in tact still?

[@birds-and-bones]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Still seems fine, but I think I could fix that if it didn't!

[@raymondandsweetheart7150]

My experience in m+ is the dawn breaker I'm dancing having the time of my life. Then I get 7 necrotic wake and I want to kill my self. then need to balance the difficulty of some of this dungeons.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Necrotic wake is so easy though. What would you want to see balanced?

[@raymondandsweetheart7150]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Maybe it was the pug I was in. I'm traumatized by my experience there.

[@bobbilling1075]

I’ve noticed very bad tank performance compared to usual. I was thinking maybe a large portion of the good tanks are just focusing on raid right now. Not sure, lfg has been rough.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Make sure you record it and send it in if you are running into very bad players!

[@Kabo0meh]

me and the boys never grind gear early so we never overgear the m0s, at 560-570 they were about appropriate tbh. Do it wrong and you die, do it right the boss dies.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Kabo0meh 560 is like REALLY not grinding gear though lol...

[@tonyr6180]

The gatekeeping on progression with needing +9s for Gilded Crests and also putting the Runed crest cap so low was a terrible idea. I'm now not able to continue to upgrade my gear, while having timed 8s, but also I can't get into +9s so I'm hard stuck at 2200. Two weeks in you're either 2300+ or you're screwed, which is terrible elitism and bad overall for the health of M+.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@tonyr6180 time your own 8 and then do the 9 brother. I literally talk about this a bunch in this video.

[@Aethermie]

also I think they gave up on affixes exactly as they started getting fun. Before DF we had two types of affixes: annoying and noone cares with rare exceptions (Explosive would be OK if there was any reason for different players to destroy em, not just healer. Seasonals were either fun or controversial at worst. Except for thundering, it sucked). But I genuinely think that Incoporeal and Afflicted were pretty fun. At least some reason to change 2-3 talent points every week. Today you need CC, next week you need dispell. Explosive, incorporeal, afflicted and nex bargain affixes could rotate and each of em should give some buffs I think. And also adding a couple of others maybe some of previous seasonals with some changes (I liked prideful as a healer but I underrstand the problem with %s and how annoying it could be for tanks and routes). One part of me is kinda unhappy about the fact the dungeons are going to stay the same forr the rerst of the season.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya I actually made a video on this in Shadowlands. Wish they would have considered it.

[@edwinjuengel4168]

I do think prot warrior is better than monk for affix. You can do aoe stun, 3 target stun, aoe fear and aoe silence for it. I have been eating the affix alone

[@yarnf]

Ring is better because you don't have to wait for all orbs to appear to put it down, it persists and keeps killing them. You also don't have to move/aim like shockwave and turn your back to mobs (I play prot and brew)

[@edwinjuengel4168]

@@yarnf yeah, but if you drop ring early, you can miss orbs. You just have to do a little positioning for shock wave and can often clear orbs alone

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ring is 100 percent the best, simply because its ranged too.

[@Aethermie]

The difference of dungeons' difficulty is absolutely weird How could they create 2nd boss of Dawnbreaker and twin-boss in stonevault in the same xpac. Like one has basically 2-3 mechanics for each role and the other is hard to evenexplain?! Difficulty spikes with affixes are also brutal. Going into +10 after +9 is just another level. Suddenly mists feel like it's difficult after the very first mobs kill players in 2 jumps. Finishin 9th key on +2 is arguably easier than timing +10 at all. Except for that its the most enjoyable season for me in some time. As a healer there are many hps-checks that are hard to beat but if you do it feels amazing and even pugs are praising you for it. Also it is the first xpac for me where I managed to finish highest vault reward in first week. Not sure if its about season being easier or me becoming a better player.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Aethermie probably just you getting better brother. This was a hard season for me and I've been playing since mythic plus was added!

[@nodrog051]

Now Golf will drive you MAD

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Had the best day of the year out there, funny sport.

[@evildarkeevildark5943]

well here comes the early 1-3 day of delve where we rushed like 20-30 idk alot.. in 5-6 min down xD and we all got 603 or.. 610 ilvl gear like free so ye :) m0 are for start gearing anyway

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

?

[@evildarkeevildark5943]

@@heythereguysitsMetro i commented on why ppl doing m0 so easy this is the reason because ppl are overgeared for it

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@evildarkeevildark5943 oh, well in that case that's not relevant to my comment then. I did zeros before any delve gear came in and they were still very very easy.

[@ΦίλιπποςΚαρατάσιος]

I jumped into a +6 stonevault eith my prot pally a little bit undergrared maybe?...that shit was making me crazy i was like why i take so much damage?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I have heard Paladin is just rough right now sadly.

[@anthonys8400]

44 m+ in 1 week? Damn

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I had hoped to do a lot more tbh.

[@ticien1]

3rd boss on necrotic wake can smd its such a dps check and as a prot warrior i melt to that bleed and whatever overlaps with what the boss hits me with

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Just gotta use all the weapons and have good single target. Don't even do the dungeon if people are going to commit to that much imo.

[@ticien1]

@@heythereguysitsMetro yeah that’s why I mentioned the dps check I’ve been getting some new players or something doing 500k with spears needless to say the boss jumped back on the platform with 70% still left

[@ticien1]

@@heythereguysitsMetro oh and 2nd add is spawning with 1st so I’m getting butt blasted

[@IJKez]

I wasted DAYS spamming 8+ delves only to get the same trinkets and weapons over and over again. I probably vendored about a dozen items, I saw maybe 3 or 4 actual upgrades. I feel like I'm the only one I know experiencing this issue....

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@IJKez what issue lol... It's called getting unlucky. Join the club brother!

[@IJKez]

@@heythereguysitsMetro so you’re saying it’s not an underlying secret systematic attempt to screw over brewmaster monks?

[@dixiekongfan1]

If the orbs didn’t give the DPS buff then we would see like 80% of orbs go off

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right, but that was the whole point of the change.

[@dixiekongfan1]

@heythereguysitsMetro yeah it was a good change. They should do the same for all the important casts. You interrupted an AOE fear? Whole team gets 10000% more haste

[@TooMuchTuna7]

I like this seasons dungeons but Grim Batol last boss is rough and stone vault is rough with pugs

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@TooMuchTuna7 ya

[@erabvgeabgt8081]

I think that m0s being easier than ever before completely depends on the groups of people that you get and what specs people are playing. I played prot paladin in all of DF, from when it was pretty mid, to busted, to not as good as vdh. I got like 2500-2900 every season and then stopped. Currently trying to tank much of anything is a nightmare. I'm 609 ilvl and I take more damage with my CDs up than my 580 ilvl prot warrior. Every key difficulty has been of moderate+ difficulty for me (and my healer friend who I do keys w/ sometimes). This only compounds when you get DPS in your like 4s that don't understand the scaling has changed, or they don't care, and they come in doing my (tank) damage. Necrotic wake is very easy with 5 competent team members. But when 1 or maybe even 2 of your DPS aren't good? These keys are brutal. Your tank sucks and doesn't understand about rotating defensives? They're going to fall over dead on several pulls that would have been very easy to handle last xpac. I'm still having fun, but I am looking to gear my warrior and maybe even bear as tanking as prot paladin isn't fun. And from what I understand, brewmaster is in a similar boat.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@erabvgeabgt8081 no I'm just talking about the dungeons themselves not the group.

[@bojnebojnebojne]

Yeah my group did a +9 and we used 3 javelins on Surgeon Stitchflesh and then we have an Arcane mage doing a casual 4mill dps on it.. while my own Havoc DH did around 2mill with an Aug ofc.... Nerf magicks plox!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Arcane is all about burst though, always had been. That's more of a misunderstanding than an imbalance.

[@bojnebojnebojne]

​@@heythereguysitsMetro Yeah that's why they have gotten nerf after nerf. I don't misunderstand anything. I fully understand that a burst spec like Arcane will exponentially scale with all dmg amplification multipliers like the Bloody Javelin. It's one of the reasons why we stack any dmg amps like battle pots and on-use trinkets with PI and Hero / BL with offensive cooldowns on all classes. It's the same concept but the difference is that a spec like Arcane simply scale more exponentially compared to pretty much every other spec with that, especially on a fight like Surgeon Stitchflesh with a stacking Bloody Javelin dmg amp.

[@sdfds1973]

want to rip my hair off.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Why

[@Regis_Philbin]

Had 75 deaths in my last CoT group :,)

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Regis_Philbin ya sadly that's probably not even uncommon.

[@lisaleone2296]

It's week two and you have a bunch of 10's in the bag? I thought the new mythic was supposed to be a challenge. I've done all of the delves on 7 and to me that means Delves are too easy. Is Blizz trolling us?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

No, you are trolling yourself, it sounds.

[@NateM13]

Been a crazy week.. as a healer, I 2 chested a 8 grim the 2nd day of the week like holy shit. Then immediately after started having a very hard time in 9s and 10s. Big euphoria spike then plateu stuck at 9s lmao. Def a wild ride but i still love it atm. Waiting on 4 pc this week and a good vault piece then itll be back to pushing! I will say however it has been the least toxic ive seen in forever, no leavers in like 30 dungeons 8 and above.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Nice, ya those opening weeks people tend to me a lot more mature.

[@captainpandabear1422]

Your thesis that this season is just super easy? Strongly disagree. Actually getting to 10s feels like an impossible goal for me right now at 610, and I got KSM all seasons in DF and KSH once, so not a total noob. These dungeons feel hard, maybe because people don't know them, but these are not easy by any means. This is just a you thing.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Huh? Give the video another watch lol

[@captainpandabear1422]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Oops, misunderstood your point there, I apologize.

[@kingtut8367]

Lots of good points on the affixes. I will disagree on the grim batol take tho. The last boss is a nightmare with way too many tentacles spawning and wiping my group. Not to mention all the healing absorbs on trash and curse dispel classes not using them is a nightmare for a healer. And as far as mists, this is by far the hardest dungeon for me but that is because i am a pres evoker and ranged stand too far or I have to break link and get out of range. Definitely fun first week so far

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Probably me speaking from the perspective of Blood DK who could just sprint through all of them to clear with AMS.

[@lukemonnin7965]

the reason people think the last boss is hard is because they dont read the dungeon journal, the adds that spawn make you take a % stacking more darkness dmg, your supposed to wait till he does his aoe pulse and then kill the adds. most people blow up the adds instantly and get that increased stacking darkness dmg and they just get recked by him,. its really not that hard if you just wait to kill the adds after aoe pulse

[@Lilligirl319]

Grim and SV are both harder imo. Very punishing if people do not understand mechanics.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Lilligirl319 grim batol I have found quite easy tbh. Yes obviously if people don't know mechanics every dungeon will be very hard. But idk if I'm just lucky or what, but people seem to have become very intuitive with the first two bosses there, despite them being so different. Really pleased with that. Hopefully that final boss just gets easier as people get more gear because it seems like a pretty intense survival check if the fight doesn't die fast.

[@littlenuggets6426]

its funny that you mention city of threads and stone vault, because ive only manage to time one 7 city and stone vault with the cube boss is very frustrating.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@littlenuggets6426 oh ya it's just a hard couple keys at the end of the day. Hoping to crack it tomorrow!

[@Shadar22]

I find mythic+ to be really unintuitive and unrewarding as both a Fury Warrior and a Prot Warrior. Especially as a Prot Warrior. There was no learning curve with this. You can basically ignore the mechanics in heroic and normal, and mythic 0 to 2 they're irrelevant, then as soon as you want to stop it up you're hit with a brick wall to the face, rage quitting teammates and at worst people being assholes to you... and that's if you can even find a group.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Shadar22 right so now that you recognize that there are a few ways forward. One, obviously, spend time on the beta. Everyone had access to it for free through the epic edition this expansion. If that's not your cup of tea though, just pay more attention when doing the dungeons on lower difficulties. They may not be wiping you but it's all still there. Take notes of names and animations. You can start to infer what things will be problematic even on low difficulty. Then you build on that knowledge as you grow. Biggest problem I see is people make zero effort to learn until they have to. That's a choice you make and one you should rectify now that you have see that choice to yield poor results. If there are any questions or ways I can help you please just let me know!

[@Shadar22]

@@heythereguysitsMetroHow exactly can it be a "problem I make* when the game fails to organically tech crucial mechanics, even though it had 4 plus tiers to do so? Why is the insane guide woefully unequipped to actually teach players mechanics? I ran these dungeons exhaustively during the pre season and had to ask someone last night how to break the black blood root in ara kara because I normally just timed heroic leap to get out of the last bosses aoe, but for some reason this week heroic leap activated but didn't move me anywhere. Particle effect spam makes certain things hard to parse, necessitating the layman to watch videos so they can understand what's happening. Delves funnily enough don't have this problem. If you did there you can pretty much tell what happened right off. In mythic plus you can drop dead instantly and have no idea why.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Shadar22 YOU have no idea why. That's what I'm trying to tell you. You obviously know not everyone is struggling like you are right? I gave you some examples of how you can fix that. If you have any questions about that please let me know. But as of right now I worry you are just blaming Blizzard for your lack of information. Could they do more? Yes obviously. But you can do a LOT more than they ever could. So you should start there. If after many keys on the beta, you still don't feel like you know the dungeons, then that's on Blizzard's end.

[@Shadar22]

@@heythereguysitsMetro obliviously not everyone has the same problems, but these problems aren't uncommon. Stop being a pedant. A lot of people came back from a long break to find this game has become incompressible. This is why I used the term "layman". People who are well acquainted with the weird way the game does things will obviously struggle less. People who already know to look up guides on KZbin will obviously struggle less.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@Shadar22 People who prepare for difficult content and pay more attention expecting difficult, will also struggle less. That's what I was encouraging you to do. But it seems like you'd rather just blame blizzard for your problems?

[@stkouts]

The most toxic m+ season i've ever seen. Puggin is almost impossible if you don't have a friendly tank (rare). Affixes are nice, but the squish made it impossible to either find a group or complete a key without a player rage quitting.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@stkouts if you are seeing it to be that bad please consider recording your runs and send me the outliers for review. Happy to expose the bad behavior especially. For me I have yet to see any real toxicity. And I obviously would not say pugging is "almost impossible" but I would agree that it's way harder due to the stupid death affix.

[@stkouts]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I had 1 tank and 2 healer ragequits the previous morning back to back. Maybe its the european servers? idk, but i wanted to record them since most of them were on the LAST BOSS with 4 mins remaining on Grim Batol. Im sure i will gather some clips today to send you.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@stkouts ya EU is usually far worse in this. If you run into anything unique send it my way!

[@normannseils3936]

I almost exclusively run with 4/5 player premade and having a blast. The dungeons are very mechanically taxing, but rewarding if you figure it out for your comp. I ran a few dungeons with full pug for some specific items (mostly arakara) and it has been 50/50. the only 10 grim batol I ran with pugs was a total mess. I would dread doing any more than a few pugs, the keys are not made for pugging this season imo, mostly because of the interrupt change and death change.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya the death change for sure. People die easily in pugs sadly.

[@normannseils3936]

And I can’t share your experience with city of threads, I actually like the dungeon a lot (besides the third boss). But that might be a pugging issue since the dungeons has a lot going on. The RP part is super predictable, the bosses are hard but have almost no random elements, which makes them rewarding to learn, and the trash isn’t all that hard. We timed a really wonky 10 with like 4 minutes over (around 610 gear).

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@normannseils3936 Impressive! the few runs ive done are always like 5 attempts to kill last boss

[@normannseils3936]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I think the boss will get much easier in time. It’s all predictable. Once people learn the timings it’s quite easy.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@normannseils3936 ya and it did get nerfed too

[@dwoodward931]

it's been fun for me, def have enjoyed it so far.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad to hear that!

[@Sodam.insane]

Spent most of opening day getting declined so gave up.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

By gave up you mean just did your own key right?

[@kaz-135]

As a veng dh timed 52 keys this week (untimed amount we dont recall) but pugging is hit or miss but in all enjoy every key even with the fails. First 2 weeks keys are none leavers just because people want myth track in their vault. Death timer id be happy if they dropped it to 7-8 seconds some packs are brutal imo

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

ya 15 is way too much

[@lukeluckynblue1873]

This season is boring :D I don't know why but i feel like quiting after doing 10 on everything..I have a lot more fun playing and pushing for PVP rating right now

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

k

[@MikeyJ232]

Doesn’t sound like a problem with the game, if you are clearing 10’s across the board just know you are in the minority of players this season lol

[@BenJonesart]

Well let me tell you, my experience has been the exact opposite. As an average to above average player/tank, anything i run over +4 has been a deplete with random pugs and really doesn't matter which key and it usually comes down to at least one boss per dungeon...Mist/second boss, NW/ 3rd boss, SV/2nd Boss, ect ect. Much like you 99% of my keys are pug based since i only have about 3-4 days at most to play and one of those nights is dedicated to raid. I have friends in dedicated groups and been doing well, most of which are KSM while i sit now in the 500s or so because i just cant time anything over a 4, nor upgrade my gear because i need the shards from +4...Ive had to solo last bosses in prolly 50% of my completes (anecdotal). AND, i would say most issues arise from mechanics because things are now more lethal when compared to M0, which i agree with you M0 should have been MUCH harder and more representative of what we would be seeing in M+ now for the average everyday joe and new player base. DK doesn't feel as fun because even now when you do things the "correct way" it feels like im on the edge of death most times and initial snap agro can be a problem with warriors right now on pull. Now i say this as near 50 year old player so maybe the youngins are having a better overall time but feels like im just barely holding on when compared to expacs/seasons since BFA.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well all I can say is if you are running into trouble in low keys please record them and send them in for review! We can laugh and we can also learn together!

[@CatDad312]

Grim Batol’s linear layout, small trash packs and straight forward tank mechanics translated into a perfect M+ dungeon. The last boss is the only real challenge but it’s quite fun and if you wipe, it’s very obvious what you did wrong. This dungeon really helped me improve as a tank. Sadly I can’t say the same for some other dungeons that are a bit convoluted with poor layouts. I will also say that Delves have been a huge factor for early gearing where in the past you didn’t have alternative solo content for gear to get you into M+

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Grim batol is the best dungeon of the season and that is absurd to say out loud.

[@wiskeeamazingdancer4964]

​@@heythereguysitsMetroExept the last boss where everything is purple and you can't see the tentacles under boss.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@wiskeeamazingdancer4964 I don't have this issue myself so might be something with your monitor. I would say my issue is it gets too dark though. I have to adjust my blinds in the late afternoon when I'm on that fight because the contrast from the bright room with the dark does make it hard to decipher edges.

[@_deepcalm_]

i feel the dungeon tuning is okay. they need to adjust a few bosses i think but overall it's just a learning curve. it feels like people were spoiled by how relatively easy the season 3 and 4 dungeons were in DF compared to this season, and are carrying that energy still. the nerfs to VDH were a big thing as well, i think the overall dps population got used to just letting the tank handle so many of the ints and stops (in addition to how they changed mob casting). also, tanks in general are just squishier. in addition, people are still learning these dungeons and are standing in mechanics, pulling extra mobs with their long range aoes, and not using personals when they should. i have been having fun but i really wish people would stop leaving at the first sign of the key being possibly bricked. ppl need to stick around and learn the dungeon, even if it's not timed.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Leaving early is unacceptable. Best advice I can give is to not let people think it's okay to do it. Message them and challenge them on it. Let them know you are not happy with their behavior. It won't help in that key, but if every time they behaved selfishly people pushed back against them, they would eventually start considering the rest of the group before they make decisions.

[@_deepcalm_]

yea i really don't understand leaving unless you're wiping over and over again on the beginning trash or first boss. but i really do wish people would stick around to learn the fights. you're right about letting people know that leaving is bad behavior - i probably will start msging leavers to push back.

[@amandarinorange91]

I like the kiss curse affixes a lot more than sanguine. Yes, they're more challenging, but that's not a bad thing. The death timer affix is bad design, though. I just find some of the dungeons/bosses to be too much. The SL dungeons may be a bit too easy, grim batol right on the money, several others need to be brought down to grim's level.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya it's a pretty bad season in terms of balance so far.

[@normannseils3936]

I personally think grim batol is way out of line in terms of dungeon design, it’s way to linear, requires too many curse dispels, the trash is wildly unbalanced (pack to pack). All but second boss are awful to play. I think city of threads is a way better dungeon overall. Stonevault is hard too, but doesn’t feel so bullshit.

[@TomaszPiotrowski-ly6wd]

Delvs are good thing coz players who dont want deal with toxic community of wow can play solo or with friend delvs and gear up sorry but mythic plus are in bad state no matter what you say community of wow did ruin mythic plus and not everyone got full team to play with together to progres on keys anymore even in guild its hard

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I'm 2500 just from pugging. So sorry but saying "no matter what you say" doesn't make you right.

[@TomaszPiotrowski-ly6wd]

@@heythereguysitsMetro what spec you play coz it matter pls i am sorry you are no life if you already are 2500 with this bad dungeon design right now but well your life if you spend whole days on farming score that in few months will be worth nothing again

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@TomaszPiotrowski-ly6wd God how stupid are you? You are replying to a comment on my KZbin channel and you asked me what spec I'm playing? Go practice your English and stop wasting time with this nonsense discussion.

[@TomaszPiotrowski-ly6wd]

@@heythereguysitsMetro well your nick is diffrent than one yutube say for so i did not know its you also you dont need be rude you just show that you are typical toxic youtuber and nothing you say will change my mind mythic this expansion are terrible bringing even worse pug players into game after 2 hours of geting decline it just prove how bad state wow is right now

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@TomaszPiotrowski-ly6wd I would advise people decline you too so be careful blaming the game for that.

[@Thaelkor]

Resto shaman here, Capacitor Totem is insane with this affix, not to mention the CDR from the talent. In my group it is my job primarily to take care of orbs, and I call out if I can't.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad to hear!

[@celery4564]

I really don't like any of the dungeons and the new affixes this season so probably for the first time in a while just not going to bother with them much, might get a couple of slots a week in the vault but not eevn going to go for mythic track.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@celery4564 ya it's not a good dungeon pool but it's still a load of fun. You'll give it a try, don't lie!

[@zizthesin]

i've ran about 20 keys so far. i've depleted 5 keys and only had 2 disbands, one due to gear check and one due to lack of mechanical knowledge. I've only been toxiced out of m0s, lower and raid pugs. I'm loving m+ now. I love that the lower keys are harder and that we don't have to split rating between weeks. Dungeon Mechanics seem more important because of the nerf to casting and CC interacting in keys and how quickly things scale up. I feel extremely motivated.

[@tylerstewart3181]

Lower keys are harder? What?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Glad to hear you feel motivated.

[@NbB-fk4qk]

You got carried and you are promoting key squish because that is the only thing how low level skill players now sitting in 10-12s. Perfect take lmfao

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Proof read your comment. No idea what you are even trying to say right now.