My Top 10 Improved Editions - with Zee Garcia

[@zebragod69]

Wow, that thumbnail of TI3 vs TI4 was a real bate-and-switch! LOL! my brain was like, “Is Zee gonna admit he ENJOYED 4th edition?!!!!” (just thought this was funny)

[@zebragod69]

(i think it’s actually TI2 vs TI4… can’t remember the cover art…)

[@DarthEd77]

Yeah, that's not the cover of TI3. It's TI1 (first edition) from 1997.

[@whittaker007]

Such a troll. TI is a valid choice though, that game evolved significantly between editions.

[@koalabrownie]

@@whittaker007 Maybe Roy did the thumbnail and is putting in an easter egg?

[@Nepenthen]

Opener is for the play cards video. Love the thumbnail :)

[@Webhead123]

There were the FFG "Golden Years" (say, between 2010 and 2016) when they were kings of publishing beautiful, expansive new editions of games. Sometimes it was improved editions of their own games. Sometimes it was updates and component overhauls of other games they successfully licensed. Cosmic Encounter, Wiz-War, Mission: Red Planet, Twilight Imperium, Mansions of Madness, Fury of Dracula, Nexus Ops, Netrunner, Blue Moon, Descent, Samurai, BattleLore, Merchant of Venus, Fortress America, Cave Troll...so many fantastic games that they curated and gave posh treatment.

[@rachelandryan]

Eclipse 2nd edition is superb. Vastly greater aesthetics, tightened gameplay, updated storage for an extremely easy setup and takedown.

[@michaelhall7080]

Through the Ages: A New Story in Civilization was a cleaner implementation of some of the original game mechanisms that fixed many issues (corruption, tactics, sacrificing units, etc). It also has a stronger art style than the original.

[@GrandElemental]

Yes! I really love the chance in military tactics especially, the new system isn't nearly as punishing if you simply don't draw good tactics and it ties to theme very neatly. Fantastic game, even better with the new edition.

[@Sajatzsiraf]

false advertising, Zee. we need our TI content!

[@randalladkins7452]

He’s never played any TI and is famous for not wanting to and turning down multiple of Sam Healey’s invitations to do so! :)

[@JJ_TheGreat]

Yeah, Zee is famous for not liking llllloooooooonnnnnnngggggg games.

[@checkrazor76]

I will never admit how long I waited for TI 4 to be mentioned by Zee. I knew from the beginning and I'm sticking to that.

[@KabukiKid]

LOL! Yeah, TI3 was the major leap that game took... when they added the action drafting like from Puerto Rico... that was what made the game go from a great game to an AMAZING game. :-) TI4 just honed the system even more. It just isn't in his wheelhouse, or it would definitely be on this list.

[@beakerkell]

Loving Caper: Europe! Lots of fun and strategy in a short amount of time. My wife and I get it to the table quite often.

[@games4life961]

Perhaps Brass should also be considered

[@markusschmidt9260]

Or any of the All-Aboard new editions of older 18XX titles. As likely to appeal to Zee.

[@cmicha8303]

Another great rework is Endeavor: Age of Sail. A beautiful new edition of a older gem.

[@Lanxe]

Yeah the production in Age of Sail is fantastic

[@scwargo]

Love Age of Sail. One of my favorite games!

[@TheWarmupLap]

How did 51st State not make the list? It’s his number one game of all time!

[@ScytheNoire]

So many missing from this list, and the comments hit on many of them. TI4, Brass, Rococo, Endeavor, Viticulture, Zombicide, Eclipse, Claustrophobia, War of the Ring, Through the Ages, Castles of Burgundy, Concordia, Pax Pamir, Kanban, Descent, Glen More, Game of Thrones, Dominion, Ra, Carcassonne, Great Western Trail, Arkham Horror. Seems like new editions are both common, and almost always better.

[@williambergquist2633]

Nothing missing from ZEE’S top ten list. Seems that YOU could easily make your own top ten list though. Maybe you would make a top 20.

[@dralokad5862]

Great topic! Loved your picks!

[@patricksteele]

I got Atlantis Rising based on your recommendation. It is stunningly beautiful, thematic and the mechanics are great.

[@romainnaim426]

Thumb up just for the opening picture! TI in a Zee list is a hilarious thought indeed! 🤣

[@19tonami57]

My number ONE >>> Endeavor (Age of Sail)

[@StevenStJohn-kj9eb]

Totally agree about that version of Citadels. I really like that the character cards were a different size than the building cards in that version, plus all the extra added variety. I would add: Dominion (second edition), San Juan (second edition), and Viticulture Essential Edition.

[@thomasgrieve5762]

All solid picks, however I thought Claustrophobia 1643 would've made the list.

[@eselectrician]

Agreed!

[@Andrew_NJ]

I agree with Zee TI4 is also my number 1 improved edition.

[@MrTravolta7]

I remember some years ago, you (Dice Tower) made a “Top 10 games with exciting ending” video and only Sam chose Camel Up on the 10th place. And i wrote on the comments why nobody gave more credits to such a great party game, because for me it was my nr 1 pick. Glad that now is more well received :)

[@LEGnewTube]

Thanks for the Caper: Europe suggestion. Always looking for solid 2p games. Will have to do some research on this one.

[@Bllurr1]

The only reason I still like MoM 1st edition is because it's genuinely fun to be the architect of the whole thing, running the monsters, using powers to stymie the players, gleefully knowing what that person is about to run into by opening that door, etc. It's like being a GM in a roleplaying game. Yes, it is a lot more work and you have to avoid mistakes, but I feel it still has value. I freely agree 2nd edition has much better atmosphere, though.

[@JohnnyLeyenda]

I would like to see a list of games which previous edition were better/more enjoyable or had more content. A few come to mind, mostly FFG games to no surprise

[@ScytheNoire]

That seems to be FFGs entire business model. Release new edition. Release expansions. Stop production. Rinse. Repeat.

[@Yrthus]

No 51st State from Zee. Shocking! ;)

[@carlossteffens7659]

Loved the original Atlantis Rising but had the same complaint. Looking forward to the 2nd Ed.

[@bartwalczak2715]

Well, you obviously missed Twilight Imperium and Pax Pamir :)

[@JefferyHunt]

pax pamir for sure

[@bobsteel1981]

Fury of Dracula 4h edition is very, very different to 3rd edition... the minis come pre-painted, and the errata is incorporated. :D Mansions of Madness is actually the opposite for me, and raises a question: do you have a list of games where the newest edition is worse than an older one? For me Mansions 1st, if you get a proper keeper who runs it like an RPG GM rather than a direct competitor (still trying to win, but get the investigators as close to winning as possible - when I play the keeper I usually manage to get it last to the final turn of the game with both sides still in contention. :) ). Whereas Mansions 2nd I find it is often easy to not know where you need to go, the app doesn't really adjust to you - it has some decision engine behind it, but not one with a large amount of flexibility, and the stories aren't very well quality checked: one of the expansion stories still had placeholder text in it when I last played it (selecting the Shoggoth to battle: "The Shoggoth is sooo spoopy!", or one of the other things I tried to do: ""). Plus they never released an editor for 2nd edition, so there is no way for fan content to be made.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

Now we need a "Top 10 Games In Which The First/Older Edition Was Better" list 😉

[@rodneyhoundstooth6265]

What do you think of the backwards camel added to the second edition of Camel Up?

[@TheGiraffehead]

I enjoy Zee's quirky tastes in games, but from this list I actually prefer the original printing of Caper and Citadels. And both Mission: Red Planet and Mansions of Madness are games I've yet to play with anyone who likes them. I am always excited by these new lists ideas, it is unfortunate that the same games end up getting mentioned.

[@randalladkins7452]

#6 - Which FFG Edition? 2008 with no pictures on the box, 2011 that you show in the picture, or the recent 42nd Anniversary Edition?

[@LookAtTheBacon]

Two small clarifications: 1. Caper: Europe isn't a new version of Caper, it's a completely new game that borrows elements of the first, original game. At least that's what the publisher itself is saying as well. 2. Great Western Trail is not getting a new expansion, it's just a reprint of the first, original expansion from 2018 with very small adjustments. There are no plans currently for any more expansions for GWT. And if you were referring to Argentina or New Zealand: these are completely new standalone basegames, not expansions. No offense please, just to avoid confusion :)

[@ziomalZparafii]

I have original Citadels and I like the small size of it, much easier to take on trip. Crown as a card is much better for me. As for Camel up, I've only played original one and heard numerous comments that original wooden camels are better quality than newer plastic ones.

[@縞鰺-o3c]

In my collection the "most improved through a new edition"-games are (in no particular order): Twilight Imperium 4e Fury of Dracula 3e Mansions of Madness 2e Nemo's War 2e (I think most people have started ignoring the fact that there ever was an earlier edition) Darkest Night 2e (The difference isn't as massive as with Nemo's War, but still ...)

[@r0hz]

Would you consider Thunderstone Quest an "improved edition" of Thunderstone Advance?

[@masblas3379]

I remember playing Mansions of Madness for the first time and it just blew my mind. Love the 2nd Edition!

[@Fighterfan69]

had a feeling #1 would be Atlantis Rising. Nice list.

[@KabukiKid]

Yeah, I have the 3rd edition of Fury of Dracula and the 4th edition is basically identical, except it has painted minis.

[@Salixalba1000]

Great list! Did Tikal rate at all? I got it after watching your vid and we really like that game. Stunning components.

[@DarthEd77]

Saint Petersburg: Second Edition is one that's worth mentioning, I think. While I do like the original's folk artwork, which I find to be charming, many people don't like the first edition's artwork. Regardless, Second Edition's production is lightyear's better overall.

[@stefansibbes2440]

Really? Imo the second edition looks hidious. To each his own I guess.

[@DarthEd77]

@@stefansibbes2440 Look up every review of Saint Petersburg, if you don't believe me.

[@stefansibbes2440]

@@DarthEd77 I believe thats your opinion. But you're really in the minority though. Its not regarded as a visual improvement over the first by most.

[@DarthEd77]

@@stefansibbes2440 It's not just my opinion. In Tom Vasel's review of the second edition, he calls the artwork and wooden components of the second edition "much improved." Rahdo's final thoughts for the second edition said, "a lot of people hate [the first edition's artwork] with a passion," and he expects most people will much prefer the overall look of the second edition. I just audited the BGG ratings with comments, and, while I didn't keep a formal running tally, the vast majority of the comments that I read pointed out that the artwork and/or graphic design was improved in the second edition with an estimated ratio of 3 to 1. If you have evidence otherwise, please share.

[@markusschmidt9260]

@@DarthEd77 He's biased. He's in that edition. But many people found this "modern people posing in wigs" quite hideous. The market phase was a fine edition, in particular to improve the 5 player game, but not enough to talk many people in my surrounding to play second edition rather than first. First edition with New Society (without Banquet) is the way, it is still played in our groups.

[@iinventedadrian]

Classic edit mistake. Never gets old.

[@gpioski]

Cool video! I would love to see your actual top 10 card decks, as well as your full card collection. Make is so... (please)

[@selfthinker]

The video for that is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bV7XqnWNqruEgrc

[@iinventedadrian]

Surprised no 51st State mention

[@solarslacker]

The concept of this lisat is great, but it seems like an oversight not to show and compare pictures of the previous edition.

[@BlueGiantMedia]

I’m genuinely shocked you didn’t put 51st State/51st State Master Set on this list!

[@BlueGiantMedia]

Glen More II would be my #2 on this list behind 51st State Master Set

[@DreamReaver]

I actually like better the artwork of the original Citadels. I also like that the game and expansion fit in a small box. I have bought second hand games so I could have Lost Cities and Blue Moon City with the original artwork (there is something about games with City in the name). I agree with Caper Europe, Fury of Dracula and I would also add Evolution Climate. And there is also the question of versions from different publishers. For example, I prefer the Catan from Mayfair (better colors, cards and wooden components) vs the one from Kosmos (?) with plastic pieces.

[@jangohemmes352]

Can't agree more, the expansion characters were so bad though: Conquerer and Alchemist are so stupidly overpowered

[@Xammblu_Games]

Gem Rush 2.0! My first purchase outside of the Amazon/Target games after I started to get deeper into this wonderful hobby. It has now crept into more of a passion!

[@Quincy_Morris]

Would never play third edition over 4th edition of Fury of Dracula. The way misdirect worked in 3rd edition really breaks the game.

[@vanmurphy26]

Can I just say, Zee - you've lost a ton of weight - looking fantastic. Please delete if inappropriate but I've been watching you guys for nearly 10 years now and yeah, looking really healthy great stuff!

[@egolend2]

Assuming you havn't played Betrayal 3rd edition yet - will be curious if that would make the list.

[@JimmySquiky]

I was baited by the thumbnail :c

[@lukasvitroler2178]

cosmic encounter is great

[@LevZhivaev]

\m/ Yeah, Fury of Dracula! Yeah! \m/

[@pad92011]

ohhh... this was a bait-and-switch mr. García!

[@DragonTank1400]

Now is this foreshadowing of Zee actually playing TI4?

[@swillsswil4817]

*looks at thumbnail* I blame Chris Yi.

[@carlossteffens7659]

Looking great! Do not lose too much more weight.

[@Pokinbrat]

Great list. Have you guys ever done an expansion that you will never play the base game without list? That would be a fun one.

[@KMReviews]

So no twilight? Lol

[@dmcd7619]

Yeah, I liked that fake out.

[@zebragod69]

That was my thought! “Zee? Liking TI4?!!! I MUST WATCH!!” bate and switch…LOL!

[@koalabrownie]

Did Zee do the thumbnail? Or is that Roy putting TI there?

[@mahrard]

I expected to see Glory to Rome in there.

[@astrophe-cat]

Once it gets a new edition that is available again, maybe. As things are, I understand that he did not include a game that has been out of print for years....

[@mahrard]

@@astrophe-cat makes sense.

[@altairbs80]

what happened with TI4 😐

[@ilirtanku9722]

What about betrayal at the house on the hill 3rd edition?

[@ryank3300]

I would put Pret-A-Porter on the list. Also Rococo, unless that is just more or less a reprint.

[@StephenEckman]

Police Precinct

[@recovery-theo]

I need to get Atlantis Rising opened and to the table

[@JefferyHunt]

thumbnail was hilarious.

[@jeffa6841]

Fury of Dracula 3rd Edition's rule books were garbage. Fourth edition fixed the rules omissions, contradictions, and vague wording.

[@neilsiddons-smith1574]

i am surprised to see that 51st state was not on the list.

[@IgorToscano]

This video needs an edition improvement for the beggining part 😆

[@djb3v]

Eclipse

[@SenseiJae]

Disagree on cosmic. I feel the mayfair edition did it best.

I thought of 7 Wonders.

[@astrophe-cat]

Heresy!!! ;-) I stick to the first edition. Not impressed by the new artwork/layout

[@mattvucu6706]

No Tikal 2 lol?

[@babulthegreat4834]

I think you had the wrong intro... lol

[@HiddenKeep]

carpe diem

[@chojindan]

Clickbait!

[@Poiuytrew.Q]

I would vote for Pandemic.

[@stefansibbes2440]

The Ancient World.

[@astrophe-cat]

That and Empires of the Void II - though not quite sure if that is a revised edition or a successor