My Top 10 Problems With Electric Cars! Degradation, Winter Range, Service / Repair, Towing, & More

[@pppscooby]

Thats why i like this channel, it doesn’t just brush the issues we EV owners have under the carpet. There are ways around most, but they do exist.

[@TAD-9]

And some manufacturers are so good at mitigating those issues that it's mostly not noticeable.

[@safedriverspei8543]

Good info. But misses the mark on some things. Many of the “cost to own” issues mentioned are Tesla and other “special” EV issues. If you buy a more common style of EV, such as F150 lighting, kia Souls, Kia Niros, and the many others that offer ICE and EV in the form, the repair and insurance cost tend to be about the same as ICE. If you are spending 140G on any “specialized” car, then no surprise if it depreciates at an extreme rate. EVs are becoming a more mainstream “ average person” vehicle choice. Maybe we need a more common vehicle buyer’s point of view.

[@safedriverspei8543]

Good info. But misses the mark on some things. Many of the “cost to own” issues mentioned are Tesla and other “special” EV issues. If you buy a more common style of EV, such as F150 lighting, kia Souls, Kia Niros, and the many others that offer ICE and EV in the form, the repair and insurance cost tend to be about the same as ICE. If you are spending 140G on any “specialized” car, then no surprise if it depreciates at an extreme rate. EVs are becoming a more mainstream “ average person” vehicle choice. Maybe we need a more common vehicle buyer’s point of view.

[@FullSpectrumWarrior]

Word

[@EVVolksmanID.4]

As the owner who only drives an EV. We have two. If you can't charge at home (you live in an apartment without access to charging) an EV is not for you. If you have a home with a charger by, or inside the garage an EV outshines an ICE car 99% of the time. The cumulative benefit of waking up every morning with 250 miles of range without wasting time going to a gas station makes up for the waiting time at DC fast chargers for the two road trips we take each year. We have had since 2011, three Nissan Leafs, and currently have a 2022 Tesla M3 and a 2023 VW ID.4. I can't speak to service issues because we never had to wait more than a day to have anything serviced. Just had tire rotation and routine inspections since 2011. But we never put more than 65k miles on any one of the Leafs and current vehicles are too new to know if we will have service issues.

[@James-wz5qo]

Spot on analysis. I love never having to think or go to a gas station ever again if I don't want to.

[@shou635]

I wouldn’t own an EV today if I couldn’t charge at home.

[@The_DuMont_Network]

​@shou635 There are other options. Just a little research, a little knowledge and maybe just a little effort. You just might learn something if you're not careful.

[@rondavis2791]

​@@The_DuMont_Networkjust because something works for your situations or in your area dosen't mean it works for everybody.

[@Jabid21]

I’m an ev owner living in an apartment, I’m trying to make it work with a ‘23 model 3 using level 3 charging. Yes it takes 40-60 minutes out of my time to get it recharged, but it beats having to buy gas. Only caveat is that winter time, range and charging time does take a hit.

[@GenealogistBuchanan]

In my part of Canada, winter temperatures can drop very low, So parking spaces at work usually have electrical outlets for plugging in the engine heater for ICE cars, which could be used for EVs too.

[@brianbarcroft9167]

Yes and kerb side charging using already connected street lamps are already a thing as is WiFi charging.

[@Jay-me7gw]

The problem with that is a regular 120V/15A outlet will probably not even supply enough power to keep the battery conditioned for charging at really low temps, never mind also supply enough to actually charge the car.

[@brianbarcroft9167]

@Jay-me7gw Not true. I have a wall box (7.3kw/h) which charges my car, which is outside, not in a garage, with perfect success even when the temperature has dropped to -8⁰C. It does this by pre-conditioninh the battery before it actually starts charging at the designated time. That's the reality. Sorry.

[@Jay-me7gw]

@@brianbarcroft9167 You are clearly talking about something different than the guy I responded too. He was talking out outlets in parking lots used to plug in an engine block heater for an ICE car. You're not getting 7.3 kW out of a 120V/15A outlet(120V x 15A = 1800 W) that is used for powering an engine block heater for an ICE car, like he was talking about. At most you get 1.4 kW since a 15A circuit is only rated for 12A continuous. That's the reality. Sorry. Also, there is no such thing as kw/h. Its kW, and kWh.

[@brianbarcroft9167]

@Jay-me7gw My apologies. Your post appeared on my tube and I assumed it was in relation to charging an EV in winter. A thread that I have been following for a while.

[@KyleConner]

*hides and locks doors* 😅

[@davidbaker9943]

lol good luck today. But to be honest throughout all your videos we have seen theses issues play out.

[@EhabAboud]

This comes from a good place so I'd be surprised if you get that much hate to be honest. Either way, turn off notifications this weekend 😂

[@macbook802]

Theres youtube channels out there claiming they made a 43 hour roadtrip in under 40 hours yet they do not publish their Google timeline information

[@macbook802]

Those route planners built in dont calculate for climate, weight in the car, head winds, or elevation changes, all of which greatly subtract from miles. A car with 250 miles of range fighting all of these factors can get down to 150 miles of range. Plus they're cross platform charging. On my bolt ev the route planner from phoenix to the grand canyon wanted me to stop at like 6 different brand charging stations plus 2 different level two chargers. Most people that get to a charger aren't going to charge from 30-50 percent just to drive 30 minutes and charge another few minutes. Two years ago when I tried chevy's route planner, it was so goofy that I'd never try it again

[@Dactylonian]

Do not apologize for being honest.

[@ryancouture2508]

I had lots of anxiety about road tripping my model y. First road trip we went to the Muskoka of Ontario… 6 hours away, pretty remotish… loved it… zero issues. Went from range anxiety etc to loving it and preferring it in road trips.

[@craighermle7727]

Kyle, your agnostic approach and commentary on EVs is greatly appreciated!

[@kurtstype7468]

My 2023 F-150 Lightning ER has about 60,000 miles on it in two years and my HVB SOH is 98.5% as of a few minutes ago. I have been very happy with how it’s performing - I just need to keep OOS Dave away from it - never have been close to running out of power and don;t want to push it… 🤣

[@Josh-179]

The packs Ford is using are holding up like champs. Heard of an example well pass 100K already showing the same minimal degradation. 👍

[@mikeflanary642]

I did a road trip with my SR Lightning and kept thinking about OOS Dave. I'd get below 10% and would head right for a supercharger. Didn't want to get towed to a charger 😂 No Bucces on that trip, unfortunately

[@zachkane7378]

I do really like this format, cool to get your real perspective on this kinda thing with all your experiences. You have real fun and work really hard too.

[@AaronMcFarland]

Being able to warm/or cool your vehicle without needing to actually start it like an ICE vehicles, is an extremely nice benefit of an EV, me being a owner a Tesla find this item so nice. I know during the cold or hot weather if I go in somewhere to shop or eat I will leave the temp on in the car so it is the same temp as you left it.

[@kungfoochicken08]

It’s nice being able to schedule the climate control as well. I get in my car every morning and it’s automatically already at the temperature I like.

[@ms-jl6dl]

"Saving the planet"?

[@gp2003gt]

As a proud owner of an EV, I enjoyed that, thank you Kyle.

[@shanevenhorst4304]

Unfortunately, this probably won’t be anywhere near one of your more popular videos, but I think it’s a good anchor point when we talk about the world of EV’s. Unfortunately, here in the US the electric vehicle debate seems to be so polarized. The majority are either on one side of the fence or the other and it’s important to stay grounded and speak the truth to anybody who may be interested so this community doesn’t come off as a cult.

[@alanpeterson6768]

It's nice to see an intelligent discussion of the downsides to an EV. While I can't relate to track problems and I had to control my "yeah but" reflex, your points seem valid (except that the BMS is no more inaccurate than a gas gauge). I liked your observations about charging. The thing I tell people when they ask me about range--and they always do--is that range and max charging rate are not as important as charging curve. That is the first piece of information that I want about any EV.

[@Tazdeviloo7]

20 to 80% charge time is good to know. Some car companies do this, but it's not uniform so an EPA 20 to 80 time would be great to see. Hopefully there's an EPA still in the near future

[@aussie2uGA]

Charging curve is important but it seems so many friends still say “wait, we’re gonna have to stop again?”

[@alanpeterson6768]

@@aussie2uGA My response is that they all have more range than my bladder.

[@davemayo70]

Great, honest video. I own two EVs and I appreciate you continuing to bring attention to these issues.

[@dperreno]

This is my first winter with my Ioniq 5 and I'll have to say that the heat pump heating kicks in relatively quickly. I live at the top of a hill, and by the time I get to the bottom of the hill the warm air is flowing, so around 2 minutes after I start driving, I would say. This is much quicker than I get heat from my ICE vehicles. But yeah, my range falls around 15-20% in the winter. That is for my around-the-town driving. My drive to the airport and back (190 miles) is more like a 10% reduction, but I can still easily make it on a single charge.

[@KingTechHD]

Got my first EV this year (Hyundai Ioniq 6) and it was amazing in the spring, summer, & fall. Once winter came the range really took a dive. Love the car & free DC charging. Just more trips

[@jean-marcfiliatrault266]

I bought my own 2024 Ioniq 6 in June. Range in the city in the summer is fantastic. Obviously, the range went down substantially roadtriping in the summer. Now, came winter. This AM, it was minus 10 Celsius. Typically, my Level 2 at-home charger outputs 11.1 kWh. This morning, it was down to 9.7 kWh with an outside temp of -4 Celsius!!! My level 2 charging voltage went down to 8.4 kWh when it was minus 11 Celsius outside!!! Also, although I don’t have any number for the range in the winter for my Ioniq 6, clearly, it is way down because of heated seats, the heated steering wheel and the heating of the cabine. Plus, winter tires without hub caps!!! Now, since I’m retired, this is not an issue. However, if I had to drive to work every day…, maybe winter range issue would be a problem. Regardless, there is a lot more planning with an electric car than an ICE car as there is no DC fast charger on every main street corner contrarily to a gas station…

[@kestrelglassingsystems6704]

I don’t have any experience with the Hyundai platform, but I’ve done many long winter road trips with a Model 3 in the rockies without any issues. My first EV was a Ford Focus Electric, and it lost 25% of its range in San Diego winter. It’s interesting to see how different the platforms are on individual metrics.

[@craig8638]

I’m glad you’re happy with your vehicle. They look great. That being said the free charging from VW and Hyundai is ruining the charging experience. I’ve shown up to a location with 10 brand new electrify America, high-speed chargers, and they’re all taken up by Hyundai or VW’s charging for free. And I’m talking about a location that would be useful for people on road trips.

[@Tazdeviloo7]

​@@jean-marcfiliatrault266Heating the cabin air uses the most energy by far. You can gain some range by keeping your coat on, heated steering wheel/seat on and only using the cabin heater to defrost the windshield when necessary. Much bigger factor with the Chevy Bolt since it doesn't have a heat pump

[@wzDH106]

​@@jean-marcfiliatrault266 Heated seats and wheel use such a small amount of energy, probably on par with the energy used for exterior lighting. Such a small number compared to the vehicle HVAC and drivetrain consumption.

[@kevinwiseman3187]

One of the most comprehensive educational videos on EVs I’ve ever seen. I watch all of your videos, great job. In your podcasts, I would back the camera up a little bit from your face. You are a monster on my big screen TV lol. Keep up the great work, and Jordan and Alyssa do a great job!

[@OlsenAaron]

Thanks Kyle, enjoyed the video as always.

[@oj9886]

Tesla and Rivian etc need to open up their repair manuals … so independent shops can use it

[@diydrivenGA]

All manufacturers do. There is no incentive for independent shops to become EV specialists at the moment and dealers don't have specialists in house in many areas .

[@oj9886]

@ no they don’t . Tesla and Rivian are notorious . That’s why richard rebuilds has a whole Channel for that

[@GWAForUTBE]

Tesla offers a 3 month EV mechanic training course available at most community colleges.

[@oj9886]

@ they don’t provide parts

[@ALRinaldi]

Tesla has opened up a buttload of repair manuals; the main things that aren’t open are HV rebuilding and servicing, though there are many folks across the country/world that have become experts on it though.

[@caseyknolla8419]

Excellent practicality. This is the kind of coverage that keeps improvements coming.

[@e94mli]

I actually switched to an EV because of winter driving. Do a lot of short drives in the wintertime and the constant cold start of a combustion isn't great, the EV does better since there are no moving parts to warm up. And using a block heater is terribly slow. Heating in general is usually faster in an EV, which great for deicing. Range in winter is a different story though. I've also seen the difference between cars when it comes to degradation, phantom drain, and other battery related issues. Had and ID.4 that degraded quite a bit and was not 100% stable in the BMS and an EQS where the battery has been incredibly consistent over 3 years of use. The only thing you can notice on the EQS is a 1% drop when you park a warm car in freezing temperatures, while the ID.3 required a full draining-charge cycle now and then or you lost capacity. Superior consumption on short winter drives, about half, in the VW vs merc, so not all bad things, just different.

[@stevedowler2366]

That's exactly what I love about your channel, the truly honest evaluation of electric vehicles. You hit all the cons I've heard or experienced except maybe the track driving which I don't have much interest in. A new issue is becoming more serious in the Tesla community: HW3 vs AI4 and V13 availability for those cars. My 2022 MYLR on HW3 is lagging significantly behind the general reviews I see on V13. I don't even have V12.5.6. There are rumors that Tesla will upgrade HW3s to AI4s someday but no such announcement from Tesla. I drive 1100 miles 2 or 3 times a year from CO to CA and back. I use FSD on those drives even though I still don't have the fully integrated inference software stack so the runs on I40, I80, I70 are all old code and still suffer some of the flaws. I have to watch out for phantom braking although now it will drop from 75 to 72 for a moment then recover. It's still hesitant around adjacent off-ramp lanes like it's thinking Hmmm, should I take this lane? It also can't handle heavy rain (would hi-def sonar fix that?) but I'd pull over in any car in really heavy downpours anyway. It can give up control abruptly when driving west into a setting sun which I have to be constantly on the alert in that condition. So anyway maybe Ill trade in for a new one with AI4 next year, the depreciation has already clobbered me - down from $60k new in 2022 to around $29K trade in at Tesla. So I paid $30K for 2.75 years of safer and more fun driving - guess that's ok by me. Cheers and looking forward to a hardware specific review of some kind if you're interested.

[@elde667]

Incredibly informative, well done and, most importantly, balanced podcast! “Telling it like it is” is so out of fashion these days. Kudos to Kyle for keeping it real!

[@Grapheneolic]

love the engineering perspective towards these problems

[@johnmerryman1825]

Bravo for facing these issues head on. I just traded in my Tesla Model S for a Q8 ETron and love driving electric, but there is still a lot of work to do in order for electric cars to be great for everyone.

[@calfeggs]

For sure I have a Bolt EV and to road trip it is about on par with navigating in the 1970s with a map. The vehicle is a great economy unit, but dang charging infrastructure is severely lacking in reliability. Thankfully I can charge at tesla stations now which makes it so much easier to get places. But just the planning aspect of where I need to stop would stop the majority of people from even considering an EV. It will become much easier when/if someone can just drive until they get low and pull off to a charging station that's basically guaranteed to work.

[@TheoPhilpot]

Can’t get enough of the no nonsense approach. Kyle you aren’t delusional like many EV propagandists. I am so excited for EVs to get better

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

In China now the price of LFP batteries is so cheap.Even Volkswagen says making an BEV sedan is cheaper than an ICE sedan.

[@kens97sto171]

Great video... Love that you cover the good and bad... and use actual experience which you have a lot of.. both personally and as a group at "out of spec". My personal experience as a rideshare driver... 50K+ miles per year.. 99% of which is in my home city. Came from a Prius, it went 425K.. Got a low mileage Bolt EV.. good price, an arguably a better rideshare car than the Tesla.. easier to get in an out of.. No weird door handles.. and I was not gonna spend $35-40 K on a Car, that people barf in sometimes. The GOOD., Its quick, nimble, easy to maneuver.. Good sounds system with the Bose system and the subwoofer, 360 Camera. Not having to do an oil change every 5 weeks. The BAD. RANGE, Charging in the middle of your shift is a pain, and costs me lost income. Cold weather really affects the Bolt.. I HAVE to run heating to keep the back seat comfortable. And it does not get THAT cold where I live. I find above 50F.. car is fine. 4.5Miles per Kwh. Below 50F.. and it drops.. at 40F.. I am lucky to get 3.5Miles per Kwh. Service.. Car has been to the dealer twice now.. takes 10 days for the car to even be seen. Though It seems that may be true for the combustion cars also. Honestly... as much as I love it, I am not going to keep it. Either I find a New Tesla model 3 LR in a year or so, or more likely ... I go back to a Toyota Hybrid. Just works better, and when I run the math.. The EV... is saving me about as much as it costs me. Though I will miss the ZERO maint.

[@nateung]

I really appreciate this video, because this logs the current state of technology and infrastructure. We can look back on this video 5 years from now and see how far the tech, infrastructure, and cost of repair has improved. I drive a hybrid Rav4 and I have zero complaints, but I would love to own a Rivian or Tesla one day. I technically can afford the monthly payment(+insurance) but it would be irresponsible for me to buy one right now.

[@allanmurphy7474]

I am noticing with winter tires and rims my battery difference is about 10% below summer driving but it’s not really that cold yet. Great show on the EV owners consideration for driving and owning one. Cheers

[@packetauditor]

On winter tires and rims in 18-22 degrees F I dropped from about 5mi/kwh to 4mi/kwh at 70mph in my 24 TM3 LR RWD.

[@bwalker4194]

You neglected to mention a VERY significant future drawback…..the insurance industry. They have the ability to become the tail that wags the dog in almost every facet of modern day life. They were quickly drawn to the long-term rental car needs of crashed EVs awaiting post-crash repair and service. Rates went up. Now they and their actuaries are quickly adapting to the horrible fact of thermal runaway fires from lithium-based batteries. It is not a stretch to imagine a future where home insurance will not cover fires started in garages where EVs are kept and/or charged. The fact that they burn twice as hot as ICE-induced fires, can melt concrete and can easily level a dwelling will not be lost on them. Another item glossed over is the dollar value of one’s personal time with regard to long waits at public charging stations. As any good financial planner knows, one’s personal time has financial value, typically 1/3 to 1/2 of one’s actual salary. For the person making $70 per hour, that forty five minute charging stint didn’t just cost them $8 in electricity but also $53 worth of their personal time.

[@Charlesbjtown]

Depreciation is why you let the rich people take the hit. A lightly used model s plaid can be had for mid to high 40s. Absolutely no need to buy new, and DEFINITELY don't lease. Always worrying about miles is a drag.

[@aussie2uGA]

Agreed, but people are not used to buying a used electric car yet. When they figure out they’re some of the best deals around, prices will stabilize.

[@JetFire9]

@@aussie2uGANah. People don’t want your used $20k battery.

[@lukyluke993]

Love the honesty of the channel. Keep it up ❤

[@kevtheobald]

Great to have straightforward advice and information. If we are to keep making progress towards a world where EV ownership is basically headache free, we have to keep hammering on the areas that need improvement. If we look back to 2014 to 2024, we have seen huge improvements in EV tech and infrastructure. I believe we will see more improvements in the next five years than we have seen in the past ten years. In 2030, it will be illogical to buy ICE vehicles for 90% of buyers in most markets. Keep up the great work, Kyle.

[@vhol93]

We have 3 EVs and 1 ICE vehicle at home, can confirm! Charging at home is almost a must to own an EV with convenience and peace of routine currently...

[@michelquesnel5868]

Kyle You NAIL it and everyone should see this video to understand the WHY of EV, I'm a first EV driver in Quebec, Canada,

[@natehill8069]

9:11 Essentially this "paying for wasted energy" happens in ICE cars as well, except the loss is in the car itself not the pump. 2/3 of the energy in gasoline that you paid for is lost as heat, either through the radiator or through the exhaust pipe. (in winter some is retained for comfort) Only 1/3 goes to actual propulsion.

[@Josh-179]

Yup, it was a fair point Kyle was making but one of the greatest things about EVs is their far better efficiency in utilizing energy. Virtually all of the electricity in an EV is used to propel the vehicle (and power auxiliary functions like HVAC and things). As you point out, a majority of gasoline evaporates in waste heat.

[@ElectricTechAdventures]

Yes great point. I wish DC fast charging had stayed cheaper though.

[@Josh-179]

@@ElectricTechAdventures , unfortunately with DC fast charging, the electricity portion of the cost is the cheap part for the installer. There's an enormous cost to charging unit, running ultra high DC current to a new location, underground. Property and zoning costs. Maintaining what seems to be an unreliable technology right now, and on and on.

[@yournumberonepal]

It doesn't matter if the cost of the fuel and the system to use that fuel is less expensive, more convenient, more accessible, or can provide more range for a given weight and volume.

[@natehill8069]

@@Josh-179 Yeah, it basically requires a substation to power a DCFC array. About like the expense of underground tanks and pollution controls for a gas station. Neither one is cheap.

[@jeffreyjoseph559]

Cold weather and elevation are like the double tap on roadtrips 😂. Driving from Illinois to New York round trip over Thanksgiving break, we ignored the trip planner once we got to Pennsylvania between the cold temperatures and all the elevation, every stop was a deep charge 😂. These are things the manufacturers should teach people, but we learned it on our own on previous drives.

[@irenecheca6575]

Dealers ognore completely winter loses. I found wind to be worse than Temps, elevation is the other killer

[@jeffreyjoseph559]

@irenecheca6575 lol yea I learned draft to behind boxy vehicles real quick first trip through Pennsylvania during the winter. We left the supercharger it said we would get to the next one with 15 percent, 20 miles down the road it said we wouldn't make it 😂

[@crashandfreeze]

I agree with everything said in the video. One thing I did not expect before owning an EV was range freedom. That is I never think twice about taking the car out for a short errand or taking the longer route, because I just plug it in at home and never have to think about the next $80 gas station visit.

[@kungfoochicken08]

I have the same experience. There’s actually less anxiety driving an EV because I never have to make the decision of whether to stop at the gas station on the way home from work or wait until the morning.

[@voldar70]

Great video. A thing to consider though : the "BMS recalibration" you are talking about does zip/nada/zero/nothing to improving the BMS readings on a NCA/NMC battery.

[@cctanner007]

Another note - we drive the 3 and only charge on existing 110… we drive it 30-70 miles every day…. Worse case it catches up on Saturday or Sunday… the Y required installation of 240 in order to use in same fashion.

[@manuelwilson9214]

Love your wide range review of your top problems areas of EV ownership.....You are the 2024 EV pioneer regarding the analysis of EV ownership.

[@logividarsson9031]

Thanks for covering this, Indeed there is a huge cap between "mainstream" and "early adopter", hence for a carmaker, what worked in the past may not work in the future. My mom for example, might be better served with a simple, easy to use EV, while I happily tinker with the pre-condition battery settings to get the best performance... As early adopters are already driving EVs we are starting to run into some of these issues.

[@rickrys2729]

Great to get such realistic feedback from someone as experienced as Kyle. I hope the EV makers are paying attention as we need better batteries, chargers, maintenance, software, and keep costs low. Yes EV's get incentives but ICE cars don't pay for all the environmental damage they cause.

[@DouglasJMark]

Great discussion Kyle. Drove our near end of life 2007 Chrysler 300C around today in below freezing weather in Toronto today. Lotsa excess heat to stay toasty warm. Our Model Y range in this icy cold weather is cut by around 30-50% I think. Yes, charging on Level 1 is super slow too. The heat does come on quickly at least compared to ICE.

[@CraigMatsuura]

Great video! Keep up the good work. I think those who have a better understanding of EVs will get it, but those who don’t might misinterpret the points and potentially spread misinformation. A counter-video addressing some of these concerns could be helpful. The introduction of EVs reminds me of when smartphones first came out-it wasn’t just about using them, but also about learning how to charge them effectively. Even today, that can still be a challenge for some. However, people adjust over time. Hopefully, even the legacy automakers will adapt. One advantage traditional automakers have is their established service center networks, which handle more repairs in-house rather than relying on third parties. I agree that EVs without dealers or support networks pose a challenge, but that will likely change as the market grows and third-party repair businesses emerge. There’s a lot of potential for new industries, like extended warranties for non-Tesla EVs. Having just transitioned to all EVs and being a family that typically keeps vehicles long-term, I’m hopeful that in 8-10 years, repair costs and options will improve significantly. If battery replacement costs follow the same trend as other technologies, it could become much more feasible to keep EVs longer, or to replace the battery and extend their lifespan. You made many valid points, but I’m unsure how much performance driving really matters to most consumers. The key factors seem to be infrastructure and faster charging. Battery technology will evolve, and we might reach a breakthrough within the next decade. I also agree that home charging is a major benefit.

[@DrKellieOwczarczak]

As a middle-aged woman, the road tripping in an electric car is wonderful. The car I had could go farther than I could myself. LOL! In short, the range on road trips was not that big of a deal, but my car was one of the really good charging cars. I also love that you made a point of the aero being the issue with towing more than the weight. I know that I lost significant range with the roof box on my car; I could get 32kWh/100mi without it and 38kWh/100mi was the best I could get (but I had to keep it at 75mph or less). I miss my EV something awful. Hopefully, if I am able to get a job, I will get another one. Not sure what I will get though. I really like the Silverado EV and it would be great on the farm. (sorry rambling now)

[@izgoy-club]

The pee argument gets me every time, as it demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the range / charging issues with EVs.

[@360milliondollars]

I am wondering also if you want to maintain and keep your car for 10 years should you change the gear oil in the motors...

[@Mike-Minion]

Great Video. The service and repair is the exact reason why i will not buy an ev yet.

[@aussie2uGA]

I’m still figuring out what needs to be serviced. I get the repair angle in case of an accident but how many of us have accidents?

[@you2be839]

The EV service and repair issue is kind of related to my decision to not buy an EV until at least 30-40% of all road cars are EVs, because that means that by then there should be plenty of service and repair options for EVs, especially independent ones... The idea of buying a vehicle (new or used) that very few seem to know how to really fix it, and most of those few that know how to fix it really are just ripping you off with brand new and expensive parts, really isn't a very encouraging picture for early EV adopters... it's a kind of minority that I really have no interest being part of given how things stand right now...

[@aussie2uGA]

@@you2be839 Model 3 is at 135k miles and only seen Costco for tires. It's beyond me why people still think they need a service department.

[@MySavage321]

@@aussie2uGAMy drive inverter just went out on my 2018 model 3. No accident, just went out while at a stoplight. $3,000 dollars to repair. Evs are not immune to breaking down.

[@ultrastoat3298]

Excellent no BS nuanced presentation of the facts.

[@adog4180]

TFL tested the mini electric vs gas. I would love a more updated the f-150 vs the lightning. Would be an interesting test. More on the cold weather preference.

[@trenthorton9532]

We just became an EV only family. Chevy Bolt & Kia EV6. One car garage, 100 amp electrical service. 32 amp/240 volt charger (7.5 kw). It's surprisingly easy to swap one of the cars into the garage one night per week and charge it back up to 80%. Both cars are already programmed to start charging right at midnight when our $/kwh drops to the cheapest rate of $0.06/kwh, and stop at 6:00 am when it goes back up. The amount of roadtrips we take annually that require DCFC stops is under 3 and the EV6 makes it so even those stops are only 10 minutes longer and about twice as frequent as they otherwise would be in an ICE car. DCFC Infrastructure is still a bit spotty & questionable, but I'll take that in a heartbeat for the convenience of not having to shiver outside for 5 minutes every 2 weeks during the winter pumping gas and interrupting my commute to do so. It's also amazing to walk outside to an already preheated car in the winter that doesn't take 5+ minutes of burning gas to start getting the engine warm, and of course paying roughly 1.5-2 cents per mile for electricity compared to 10-15 cents per mile for gas.

[@ms-jl6dl]

Do you own the cars or are you leasing?

[@toddommen5321]

Kyle, super important information! We have relied on your expertise over the past 5 years as our ownership of two teslas has progressed. Please keep providing the EV clientele with your valuable data and perspectives.

[@gsxrfire8310]

Definitely a subject ive been wanting to be covered

[@Jcewazhere]

Ben Sullins' whole channel is about talking about EV FUD.

[@DaveG7920]

Great video, these types of conversations are far more helpful to increasing EV uptake, than channels like, The electric Viking, where he (and a lot of his followers) just insults anyone who isn't 100% onboard the EV train or points out some of the disadvantages.

[@649649649134]

As a very happy Cadillac 2024 Lyriq owner, I agree that the only way to solve problems is to shed light on them so that solutions can be put in place.

[@ImLivinSD]

Agreed, but you EVangelists are always shutting us down with your superior smug virtue signaling attitude!

[@supergeek02468]

As a note on BMS sway at @25:30 The reason most cars show a few more % after charging is the pack balancing. Tesla’s balance circuitry is extremely slow, taking about 4 hours to balance out a pack. The car charges to where it expects but until the cells balance out. You lose energy discharging those high cells to balance, so you’re not sure the true SoC until balancing is complete. This is also why getting to 100 takes forever and charge below 0 is so variable. Those high and low cells are the limiter and the car can’t balance the pack fast enough. Love the video!

[@vincentaudibert9789]

Dang, really good video ! To degradation, the remedy seems twofold: - infrastructure deployment: real range is decreasing, but charging ability can far out-pace it. In Europe, when Tesla M3 arrived, fast chargers were 200km apart. When I bought it, 100km. Now 20-50km. - tyre efficiency gains: valuable only for old-enough EVs that did had to make do with high friction gums.

[@FullSpectrumWarrior]

Correct 100%. Improve those issues and see sales skyrocket

[@mullen25]

i learn tons watching this channel. i love the deep dives into EV's. thanks again for all the work and real world experience with these vehicles.

[@jtsmith9770]

Everything you are saying is spot on. But the biggest problem we have right now is infrastructure. My wife and I just drove a little over 2400 miles in my Hummer EV. We went from Central Utah up to the Seattle area to visit my daughter. We didn’t have any major complaints,obviously the trip took a little bit longer, but we knew that going in. I think once the infrastructure catches up the EV market is going to rule over the fossil fuels. But until then, it can get exciting sometimes.

[@kungfoochicken08]

Tesla’s Superchargers are already developed enough to comfortably take a trip anywhere. The problem with the Hummer EV is they didn’t both considering aerodynamics when they built it. The Cybertruck is twice as efficient as the Hummer. The reduced efficiency from the extra drag means they had to jam twice as many batteries into it, which increases your charging time. So you’ve got a truck that charges slow and you’re stuck trying to cobble together Electrify America and Chargepoint charging stations.

[@sandshark5584]

I thought this was the perfect video for this time in electric vehicle sales. With everyone making electric cars now they’re becoming more of a common comparison to ICE vehicles and these pros/cons aren’t something a lot of people are really considering. Love the content as always and I’d love to hear what you found out from Rivian on their charging issues and the audio issues from your Dual-Max 10% review!

[@broderwow]

I have an issue with "range", this complaint relate to all cars. You will never get the mileage promised by a producer; both EVs and ICE have different consumption in cities and highways, in cold and warm conditions (cold air is denser), etc.

[@r5LgxTbQ]

Personally I believe that if EVs were the norm and gas cars just came on the market, absolutely nobody would buy a gas car. Oooh, I gotta get my energy shipped in from Saudi Arabia and I can't fill it up at home and it's really only an advantage if I'm driving several hundred miles away and I have to change out the oil multiple times per year?

[@professionalelectronics3158]

Which country do you live in? Because Americans get their gas mostly from themselves and Canada. Venezuela was a far third. Saudi Arabia is important for supplying oil to american allies (especially the far East Asian countries), not to Americans.

[@jelloMohnny]

100%! We've just become used to all the drawbacks, but somehow they don't factor into the EV conversations. I really feel like the "drawbacks" are way overblown, and for "most" people are edge cases. Even winter driving - in reality all it means is you'll need to stop a bit soon to re-charge, assuming your route exceeds your range. Take a car with 300 miles of range on a 600 mile road trip - summer? One stop to get there safely. Winter with 25% less range? Two stops to get there - so 20 minutes extra?

[@Jcewazhere]

@@professionalelectronics3158 Because oil is a global commodity what the saudis do with their oil affects us here almost as much as if they did sell us the oil directly. Russia, or SA withholds their oil for a few months? Guess gas will be a dollar a gallon more. They spill their reserves onto the market? Yay gas is cheap for now... but oh wait, isn't that screwing with the market and harming those oil industry jobs here? Yup.

[@barryw9473]

I agree. Still oil is a global commodity now that the US can buy and sell crude internationally (was not possible for a long time), so Saudi Arabia and others benefit from crude demand in USA.

[@barryw9473]

Take away oil and gas subsidies for transport fuels when EV subsidies are removed. Good luck with that!

[@teslasnek]

Polestar's software is pretty good 🙂

[@binjones]

While I do concur with much of your comments, I find that if I’m traveling and towing, it doesn’t really matter ICE or EV. Both drop fuel efficiency. Perhaps because I’m older, I’m not in such a desperate rush to get to a location. So an extra two or three hours isn’t a concern. What enjoy most is that I arrived refreshed and not exhausted. I don’t care that I can get to a camp ground quicker, if I’m tired I have that much more work to complete before getting settled in. There is a lot to be said for slowing down, taking your time and enjoying the journey.

[@steveshives2010]

Great video Kyle. People need to know the pros/cons of EV ownership. I have a model S and wife is looking at a Y but I also have a Dodge 2500 Cummins that I also love to drive. I love roadtripping in my Model S and learned a lot from the Out of Spec channels. Keep up the great work and appriciate your objective look at EV ownership.

[@gregsutton2400]

I can't think of anything you could have taken out of that discussion that's just how long it took to say it thank you

[@samatwesu]

Road tripping during the winter with a Chevy Bolt and BZ4X both which don't allow preconditioning is horrible. Also factoring in elevation change is critical because the BMS does not on these cars. And range drops very quickly. In charging deserts that you calculate you can make next charger only to see your range disappear is stressful as you scramble to plug share to find anything.

[@jeffreythurnau6796]

Hello Kyle. Thank you for the informative video. We are the original owners of a 2017 Tesla Model S 75D and a 2019 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD, which we love. We live north of Seattle not far from a Tesla Sales/Service center. Our service experience with Tesla has been great. Either by Tesla Mobile service technicians at our house or at the Tesla Service Center. Service has been in a timely manner. Except for now! My 2017 Model S was recently rear ended at a stop sign. The impact was sharp, at approximately 20 mph. Fortunately the car is still drivable. The problem is finding a Tesla Authorized Collision Center to get my car fixed in a timely manner. There are 3 centers within 50 miles of my location. None of them are even available for an estimate before the middle of February 2025. I know the costs of body work on Teslas is high. Also, my Model S 8 year limited warranty for Drive Train and Battery expires January 3, 2025. With the cars depreciation, I won’t know until February if the car could be deemed total. It’s a good car I was planning on keeping for several more years because of the low maintenance costs. But now I’m in limbo. Just very frustrating for something that was not my fault. Plus the Model S has unlimited Supercharging for life. 🤬

[@professionalelectronics3158]

Unfortunately they might deny you supercharging after the accident. Very sorry to hear about this accident!!! 🥺

[@kungfoochicken08]

@@professionalelectronics3158You can pay for an inspection that will reactivate Supercharging. I think it’s like $400. It really depends on how much money the insurance company gives him for the car. Might be worth just buying another Model S with unlimited supercharging. I see them going for 20-35k, depending on the mileage and battery size.

[@paulbeams1639]

I bought an ioniq 6 limited left 2 days later and drove from illinios to Florida then the next year drove to montana and back to illinios and I didn't know alot for the first trip but definitely can be done thanks for all the info you give

[@CharlesBurnsPrime]

Every decision has pros and cons. The average mind will figure out one or two cons and decide that, "it sucks", and as unwilling or unable to understand at any level deeper than that. However, those that have made the decision have a strong tendency to ignore the cons. I do not understand why radical honesty is so rare, but I appreciate Kyle for EV honesty, Sabina Hosenfelter for physics honesty, and AIDrivr for full self-driving technology honesty.

[@douglassmith8772]

Thanks for the interesting article Kyle and spot on. I have owned an EV for several years on lease and was close to getting a used Tesla in January until I watched your podcast and started thinking hard about staying with EV's. The parts that made me change my mind and start leaning back to ICE vehicles was the winter driving efficiency and repair cost of out of warranty vehicles. I really don't want to lease anymore, especially a Tesla mainly because there rental agreement leaves a lot to be desired. I will probably wait for a little more improvement in range and repair facilities to become available which I am sure will happen in the future. I had a HV cell go out in the car that I presently lease and it took several weeks to repair and even though it was covered under warranty, the repair cost was breath taking to say the least if I had to pay for it. With ICE vehicles there are hundreds of repair facilities to go to and get repairs done, and range anxiety under various driving conditions is basically non-existant in an ICE vehicle. Thanks for a great podcast and helping me make my next vehicle purchase.

[@thaladriataeyeon3265]

This winter I drove in a really nasty blizzard with heavy drifting snow across the highway in my 2021 model 3 LR and used 98% going 164km. I had to stop and charge on a 120v 15A outlet for about seven hours to make it the remaining 24km to the supercharger. Fortunately it was only about -5c so the car could actually charge off a little outlet.

[@pete8516]

I really like your channel…your honesty is appreciated…I have a Tesla Model Y, love it…but there are things I wish they would improve…not having a spare and waiting for a tow that can safely pick up an EV

[@jonperkins8696]

The big problem I do hear about is the charging stations are not set up like regular fuel stations...where you get out get snacks and "take a break"....with the exception of like Buc-ee's.

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Buc-EEs, Sheetz, WAWA, and many others put the dispensers way the Hell and gone away from the building, in contrast with parking spots for others. You must stay with your car (by law) when filling, then park and walk a short distance to the building. While I appreciate these folks' efforts in supplying superchargers, if I need a convenience store, I'll go where I can park close in.

[@junehanzawa5165]

​@@The_DuMont_Network Buc-ee's have very large parking lots, so that comment applies to them. However, the others, (Wawa, Sheetz, Quickchek, Circle K, etc), don't have large parking lots so it's basically the same distance as parking your ICE vehicles.

[@MagnenoExtra]

IONIQ 6 owner here. BMS sway has never been an issue. The most phantom drain I experienced, after leaving it for 2 and a half weeks, was 2%. It seems to get better range now than it did when I got it over a year and 12k miles ago. Depreciation is the true thing that affects all EVs equally. (winter and highways too, to different extents)

[@kurtbenjamin16]

I can’t wait for your guys’ future degradation testing. It will be fascinating to see what the true contributions to this are as we learn more over time. As someone with only ICE/Hybrids in the past, but a Rivian R2 reservation, I have the same impending anxiety as you Kyle about it. Obviously having the “warranty” backup helps stem that fear, but it’s a serious thing to consider with switching to EV. Thanks for all the unbiased, in-depth content!

[@walkerdarin2003]

Road tripping a Tesla with a family is great. Forced breaks to pee isn’t a problem

[@kungfoochicken08]

We usually have to stop before we actually need to charge anyway. Charging doesn’t add anytime to our road trips. When I drive by myself they’re a bit of a hassle because I prefer to drive straight through.

[@ZachMeador]

While thermal/resistive losses of DC fast charging is true, a gas car is also wasting (the majority) of your fuel through thermal losses... so that kinda doesn't make sense as a comparative negative

[@rudycampolo6774]

Just want to relate a story about service for the Hyundai Ioniq 5 that I lease. I had a run in with a cart corral during a recent charging session and when I went to get it repaired I got quotes from 2 independent collision shops and one from the Hyundai dealer. I was quite to find that the Hyundai dealer came in with the best price and did a terrific job.

[@EdWord1583]

My least least favorite thing about my Tesla model y living in Arizona is the glass roof. I have a cover for it but the issue is it mounts up where the side impact airbags are so that makes me uncomfortable if they were to deploy also, it rattles loud. They do make adhesive ones you can put on like a decal but then you can't take it off and put it back on easily like a shade. Any kind of metal framing up in the roof headliner just makes me uncomfortable with the airbags deploying it might screw up the airbag deployment. I believe a glass roof weighs more than a metal roof and you can't insulate either double pane glass is nice but it still doesn't do the same as metal with insulation. I don't need extra Sunshine because I see it all the time. I would like an option of not having a glass roof. I honestly hate them. It just makes the car hotter makes the air conditioning work harder wastes battery so the shade works well but then it makes the ceiling lower. I am curious about how much degradation I'm going to have on my car driving it in such an extreme environment. I got this model y a year ago August and have 51,000 mi on it already. I drive all over California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado. I'm in sales so I just drive everywhere cuz I always have a lot of tangible things that people want instead of digital copies that I have. My first EV was an Audi e-tron launch edition and somebody totaled it in August of last year rear-ending me down in Tucson. It was a bummer, however, I always had range anxiety because of lack of charging infrastructure.

[@cmiles97x38]

Thanks for this video. The Hyundai EV6 GT with the current price drops and depreciation on the used market has me thinking about one for fun but am concerned about how will it be 7 - 10 years from now. Will all the electronics and thermal management systems hold up or will I have a useless brick at the end of ownership or will I be able to drive it years past that. Plus mine will be a weekend car in hot humid Florida. Will it not being driven for 5 days at a time in those conditions degrade it faster?

[@TrentPatterson1719]

Something that clicked in my head that helped me understand why we don't have a state of charge on arrival for EVs - we don't have it for ICE cars (not that I've seen.) Most ICE vehicles have a gauge and some kind of estimated range, but because of that, the corporate techs don't think of it when producing their EVs alongside ICE and couldn't wrap their heads around why this is important. The only ones that have put this in are pure EV startups (Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc.) or those companies who can throw money at the problem (Porsche). I do understand that you may need decent telemetry (google maps, software, weather, etc.) to predict an accurate range, but this may be the crux of the issue.

[@jamesdubben3687]

from experience (11 yr EV driver) agree with these points (I just don't know the track stuff) I'd say good discussion.

[@carbondragon]

Great video that summarized a lot of the issues. A couple of things though. I've heard of two instances (from youTube videos) of Hundai owners who supposedly had their warranties on their batteries voided due to road damage to the battery being labelled customer abuse. So owners under warranty might not be immune from this issue. Also, when I hear you talk, I hear a true believer. It seems similar to someone in the 1910s with cars that they had to tinker with and coax into working ... or a vintage supercar owner who had to deal with all kinds of expenses for maintenance and insurance in order to drive their cars. In both cases those were people for whom their cars were part hobby and I think the same is true for you. For the average person, they will not want to need to know all this stuff just to have a car to drive around. I paid $32000 for a 2024 prius. I have a 330 mile range, get 55mpg (maybe a few mpg less in the winter), fill it up when I need to (which takes 5 minutes and

[@davidthompson7817]

Welcome to the future… Learn to accommodate because you will be driving an electric vehicle if you are young… I want a big V8 so I can pull around a trailer or whatever the hell I want … in retirement, yippee!

[@ahbushnell1]

98%k of my charging is at home. I charge at night when the rates are low and I don't waste time going to a gas station.

[@rs4rsq]

It's takes about 10 min ... for every 10 days, ...not much comparing with more than 1 hour I lost watching this video 😅

[@JetFire9]

Cool story, bro.

[@kungfoochicken08]

@@rs4rsqCharging takes me 10 seconds every 2 or 3 days. Range isn’t something I ever really consider unless I’m going on a road trip.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I vastly prefer my Cadillac Lyriq over the other gas cars I’ve owned. The only problem I see is the lack of public chargers. I am linked to the EVgo network. I have 2 years of free charging which means I’m stuck using EVgo although other networks have more chargers, more available chargers and more working chargers. Here in NYC there are very few EVgo chargers. There are a lot of people with Ultium platform cars though. We need way more chargers. I don’t have a tremendous problem with the charging time. I usually go shopping while my car chargers.

[@aaronalter2000]

Thank you, Kyle for your honest opinions

[@georgepelton5645]

I have now watched to the end. I have to say that Kyle exhibits very deep knowledge of EVs and engineering, and presents in a balanced, articulate, manner. In the end, the 10 problems are minor compared to the many advantages of EVs for daily driving. Some use cases, like long distance towing or racing are still better served by fossil cars. After all, they still race horses, don't they? 😀

[@Budooby]

All the problems you identified are fair, I only wish you would’ve done just a bit more to emphasize how small of an impact (if any) most of these will have on the average consumer. Totally doesn’t mean they aren’t real issues to be worked on, but I’d hate for an uneducated person to get clips of this and think EVs just totally suck when most of these issues either don’t apply at all (track performance matters to very few people) or are REALLY easily mitigated (don’t buy an EV if you can’t charge at home, always navigate where you’re going, etc). Still, I appreciate you making this open and honest video and I’m excited to see how manufacturers (hopefully) improve these problems in the years to come!

[@malcolmbennett3555]

interesting vid Kyle, thanks........Im a 21 mth EV owner travelled ~60k kms and agree with the first 3 items listed.........my biggest wish is consistency of charge and range just like a ICE car.........youd then know how long it takes to charge and how far youll go but theres just so many variables that most of the general public wont understand or tolerate

[@holmiumh]

No, I don't wish for that and I don't want to be a part of the general public. You see, ICE car is like a person who do $100 of works if you pay the person $200, if you ask for $110 of work the person is more than happy to be consistent and take your $200...and you are happy of course, because you are general public. EV car is like a person who do $100 of works for $100. If you ask for $110 of works that person will ask you to pay $110, now the general public can't tolerate the "non-sense" and need to "fix" the issues quick. If there's one thing I absolutely don't want to be that is being a general public.

[@_MANASYt]

I live in China and spoiled for EV choice. Test-drove many recently. Yes, they are comfortable and the software is amazing. But the ride leaves a lot to be desired... Most of them 😎 And they lack long-term reviews... I'd wait for solid-state batteries to buy one... Just bought a Cadillac GT4 (a model only for China) for $26K. Fantastic ride! 😍

[@Ginger_head_Man]

Good, fair video! I love my EVs, but it’s naive to think there are no problems with them. I certainly don’t want to go back though!

[@teslasnek]

I've driven my 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance all out at Buttonwillow, Streets of Willow, and Chuckwalla- never had anything overheat. The only aftermarket thing I've done to my car is competition brake pads and brake fluid 🤔

[@aussie2uGA]

Ditto. The Model 3 is an autocross beast with a few simple mods.

[@teslasnek]

@@aussie2uGA I could see getting the Model 3 to overheat on higher speed tracks like Big Willow or the Nurburgring, but on smaller more technical tracks like the ones I mentioned, I've never seen it happen 😎

[@Crisman111]

I have a 2023 BMW I4 M50. Though I am not upside down on my car now, since I am paying it off quickly, I know I would take a BIG hit on a trade-in/sale. What I find myself thinking about is if I should sell the car before the 5 year warranty is up due to potential very high maintenance and repair bills, or keep the car for 10 years or more to make it “worth it” … ? IDK, It’s ‘a lot of car’ for me, so it’s not a *perfect* fit, but I do love it. On the other hand, if I did find the perfect electric car, I would be tempted to sell. Should I be concerned enough about huge repair bills when the warranty is up that I sell the car before the warranty expires? Should I dump it now before I lose WAY too much money on it?

[@da.bao.1]

9:08 Battery Thermal Control is critical to eVs because it maintain the battery's longevity which is a huge saving down the road. 😊😊😊

[@GeryTeague]

Thank you for all your super helpful videos! I would love to see a video on something pretty unique. Comparison between some of the most FUN ev's (ex: Hummer EV vs Porsche Taycan Sport Turismo, etc.) It's incredible to experience both back to back and really feel the differences.

[@milcue2]

I always wonder what is a long period of time or storage considered as, is it a week? A month? Just s couple of days without use.... I have not been able to find a clarification on it.

[@jimmyers4890]

Thanks for another great video. As for tire wear it's the old adage that it's the nut behind the wheel that causes the problem. I have a 2020 model Y that just turned over to 50,000 miles on the original Continental tires. I hope we don't get much snow because they're getting close to being illegal but I hope that they will last another month until the new year.

[@EvanSamuels]

Re: cold weather performance - when I drove Subarus winter would absolutely destroy their range/efficiency. Talking about 30/40% losses from upper 20s avg. mpg to upper teens. But it was a pretty minimal issue because I could fill up the tank anywhere and quickly. So in terms of actual cold weather losses EVs and ICE in my experience are pretty comparable (and some of that can be mitigated with EVs). But the difference is it takes more time and planning to charge so depending on the use case that can be pretty inconvenient. For me, there are major cold weather benefits to EVs that far outweigh the downsides but that definitely won’t be true for everyone or in every case.

[@professionalelectronics3158]

I have a Subaru (2.0 na engine) and experience losses too, but more like upper 20s (29mpg) to mid 20s (24mpg at worst). The thing is that in the winter, I typically fuel up around 300 miles. If it's a horrible blizzard where I can't fuel for three minutes, I can push it off to the next day or two sing I can get over 400mi per tank, and still only spend three minutes to fuel up, as opposed to 30 minutes. Of course that's only an issue if you don't have L2 charging at home ...

[@EvanSamuels]

@ I’m looking back at the gas history on my Impreza and in winter months I’d regularly get in the 18-22mpg range per fill up. Warmer months more like 25-35. I was often getting less than 250 miles per tank in the cold.

[@professionalelectronics3158]

@@EvanSamuels looking back at my numbers, it's in line with yours, at around 30% loss in winter. What I forgot to mention is that there may have been an issue for me with winter formulation fuels for my state...

[@Jcewazhere]

Plus all the time letting them idle in the driveway to heat up. I LOVE how I can click a few buttons on the remote and my Bolt'll start heating up in the garage while plugged in. I do miss AWD, my 'Roos were a blast in the snow while 'Beverly' is just safe and boring.