My WEIRD First Day in Destiny 2 - Bungie REALLY Needs to Fix This

Project MMO Continues and the latest game to join this blind voyage into the unknown is Destiny 2. And our first day in that game showed some real issues with the new player experience... or should we say 'returning' player experience.
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[@Preachgaming]

So we didn't have time to film an intro before Mike left for the race... so I had to dip into the meme chest lel. In our latest foray into Project MMO we decided to play Destiny 2 - a game Mike played very briefly for a sponsored stream before - this happened to cause some issues as it highlighted some serious problems with Destiny's returning player experience. What are your thoughts on how Destiny educates new players and explains things?

[@mentalbreak]

The same thing actually happened to me when i started playing destiny 2. One day after logging on, the game randomly decided to put me in the new campaign (Lightfall) BEFORE i had completed the starter tutorial area. So im playing lightfall, having a great time until... i get to a mission that requires me to have a sparrow. The sparrow you unlock in the tutorial area -__- I had no idea the game even had vehicles. luckily I had a friend tell me where to go to get one. my progress was saved in that mission so it was really easy to just go get the sparrow and come back to complete it.

[@SpookySurprise]

As someone who originally tried Destiny 2 during it's beta, and then jumped back into Destiny 2 near the end of The Witch Queen, I have to agree. D2 has one of the worst new player experiences out there. The story feels so disjointed, with so much content no longer available, that I lost any and all interest in trying to enjoy it. Combine that with system after system that isn't explained to players, and an entire subclass from two expansions ago that's still locked behind a time-gated grind? It's not a great experience for anyone coming in, even more-so for anyone who tries the Free to Play version.

[@doots42]

yeah it sucks. As someone who played D1 for a while, then D2 up until witch queen, and then came back for the newest expansion it's been such a pain to interact with. The grind is annoying, and everything else you ran into headfirst is pain. I uninstalled after a month of banging my head against the wall in Neomuna.

[@nyanyanolio8361]

I've played the new character quest with Shaw Han a number of times and always found it rather long, but I felt it was just out of order for introducing the core playlists of the game. Personally Dungeons are my favorite activity in Destiny 2 and I hope that Mike gets a chance to compare them to raids and strikes respectively, Destiny does not do a great job of explaining the chronology of the endgame experience but I think it's a cool comparison to make. On the topic of the legendary campaign, I would like to throw it out there that it is explicitly a challenge mode and the post campaign does feed a lot of powerful engrams for leveling. I say this because I would like to know Mike's thoughts on the boss designs once he's more acquainted with the game, I think it's really cool they would create those fights for the single(ish) player experience next to the dungeons and raids as well.

[@subzzeroevil]

I am always lost when playing this game think it's because of the story missing because of vaulting story.

[@EverianKalim]

Starting Destiny 2 now is like being thrown into Chapter 20 of a book and expected to know whats going on but the first 15 chapters are missing and each years a few more go missing.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

And even if you ask "Can I at least read Chapter like 17 or something for a recap of the last one" it tells you to fuck off if you ever read the first page in a Barnes & Noble. (Read: Veteran Rank+Power Floor)

[@neofly]

the Lightfall campaign doesn't make sense to people who have been playing all this time, tho. It's terrible writing

[@Vendetta8247]

come on, that's not true. You're missing the first good campaign and a shitty dlc that were in the beginning of D2. The rest you can easily play today, even D1 is still up afaik but that's definitely not needed to have fun and know the lore. In the end you're going into the game with number 2 in the name. It's the same as arguing about playing Witcher 3 not understanding who all the characters are. That being sad, Lightfall is complete shit in terms of lore and campaign. A definition of a filler xpac. The witch queen was very good tho

[@Nephale]

Exactly why i did not return during covid. Played it until the forsaken expansion i think but even my paid dlc are gone and i cant just continue because half the game is missing. Am i expected to read up on everything or watch youtube videos?

[@LifeCompanionDogs8083]

​@@Vendetta8247 most of forsaken is also unplayable.

[@Rayngood]

When Preach said " what is the veil?" As a 9 year veteran....I really felt that

[@sparkeykills1]

Ikr? Lol when he said that I was like "it's ok preech none of us know what it is either" 😂😂

[@Xbob42]

Surely the wiki will clear it up! "The Veil is a paracausal entity or artifact connected to the Traveler. Located deep below the surface of Neomuna, it is used by the Neomuni as a power source for the city, and the paracausal energy field it projects forms the basis of Neomuna's CloudArk." Ah, it all makes sense now!

[@ArchieGamez]

​@@Xbob42 The fak is that HAHA

[@77SBCR]

@@ArchieGamez they retconned the retcon, its now the opposite of the traveler

[@Joepeoplesvii]

@@77SBCR not even anymore. They’re trying to end the light/dark saga to show that they’re both interconnected. They exist seemingly apart but are, in reality, intertwined.

[@chilliewhk]

Ive played Destiny since launch, and all this critique is completely correct and fair.

[@zometthecomet]

100% it is 😅

[@jmbrady1]

the critique is probably an understatement if anything

[@Geologese]

I tell people to not join/come back

[@terezii]

same

[@mildlydazed9608]

Was refreshing to see just HOW BAD the new experience is. Haven't made a new character in years now and it always seems like hyperbole when people say it's awful for new or returning players

[@simfilesymlink4593]

It's funny to watch those first parts of ff14 playthrough and how preach hated the way his character looked and now Floor Inspector is recreated in every game.

[@Maria_Erias]

It's funny how a meme character can take on a life of their own. My first time playing a male Shepard in Mass Effect, I couldn't get a look I liked, so I would up making the absolute ugliest dude I could out of spite. He looked like this half Chinese, half Mexican hombre with a nasty scar over his eye. It wound up growing on me that I can no longer watch anyone play a male Shep in any ME game and hear that voice coming out of any face other than my grizzled Chinexican. He is and forever will be John Mass Effect to me. ♥

[@_DuxNet]

You asking "What's the veil?" straight away really sums up exactly what us Destiny players hated about the Lightfall story. They have said they are adding a free quest next season that explains what it is but for a lot of people it's too little too late.

[@cynthiahembree3957]

Yeah I was like don't worry Preach none of us vets know either.

[@bluemyst42]

A big complaint I have with Destiny is that the information that players want isnt in the game. Its on their website, or somewhere outside of the game. Some of it is in the game, in the form of those lore packages you unlock sometimes, but it should be in dialog or cutscenes or missions. Dont make me alt-tab to go read about this shit.

[@caseyl5001]

@@bluemyst42 they also rely too heavily on the community to tell each other how to do things.

[@sopcannon]

unless you sit through mynameisbyf videos we are missing a lot of story

[@sqentontheslime1967]

⁠​⁠@@bluemyst42 I think they ditched the idea of the Website with the lore on it so that’d only apply to D1 All the lore books are in-game now… though still behind unlocks, so a bunch of that would be inaccessible now.

[@chewyontoilet]

Mike saying how he feels the dungeons not being included in the legacy pack is so spot on with the community's feelings. The dungeons were originally built into the annual/seasonal releases, but over the past couple of years they went out of their way to disconnect them just to make more money off of their audience. If the dungeons were completely disconnected from the story then sure, I would think it's crappy but kind of get it, but both dungeons that have been released since this "dungeon key" isolated purchase were both intertwined with the narrative of their respective seasons they were released in...so just straight scummy lol.

[@fishandham1]

funnily enough you are actually dead wrong, the community begged bungie for months to sell dungeons separately and then as soon as they did people complained.

[@chewyontoilet]

@@fishandham1 dang, almost like the community can consist of differing opinions and isn't just a hivemind, wild! Lol, we are both right bud, doesn't mean I am dead wrong, relax. Another example is how some people hated the classic expansion structure, and wanted a change. We got seasons and others got vocal saying they didn't like the seasonal structure. That's life guy, people have different opinions, I'm just saying one in my comment that the community did in fact agree with lol

[@nailinthefashion]

​@@chewyontoilet ........they've awoken the hive!!!!

[@Vextral4653]

@@chewyontoilet sadly the community is usally what ruins stuff for themselves almost anything they ask for they get sick of not much later defeating the whole purpose of making what they did. the artifact was of the communities creation, season model was on the communities creation. so you are mainly wrong in your stance, as it was self harm. duailty wasnt half intertwined with the story as if you missed it, its not a big deal. actually most people already knew everything it told us. Spire also didnt really tell us more than the story for the season was telling us. im just saying, that the dungeon model isnt an opinion, people asked for it. so they did it. that isnt an opinion, its doing what the community wanted. Also the community is a Hivemind and a bad one at that.

[@cd2340]

@@fishandham1 huh? please show where the community was BEGGING for a dungeon to be sold separately. That doesn't even make sense considering you'd have to be a fucking moron to actively want to pay MORE money for something separately when it used to be included with something else.

[@randomgenretalk8151]

Destiny 2 has a wild history, first it was a full price game with a base story, most of the story was around one major enemy within in the major antagonist alien faction. Later it added more story via the seassons and addons. Later the game become F2P and the cut out the around 20h compaign and gave the player the basic cosmodrome starting point, they changed it later again with a different one. The cut out two moons, IO and titan that were part of the story, later they added mars with it's own story part just to cut this out again. The cut 50% of the games story out that is the setup for Forsaken, Beyond Light, the Witch Queen and Lightfall. New players can't know the full story why XYZ happen and returning players are confused because if they are there or not, the story progresses. It's like watching a show that has 14 episodes, some watch the 7 right away and other want to watch it later, but then the first 7 epsiodes disappeared and those who want to watch it now have to start with episode 8 but they will cut out episode 8-10 later so people who want to watch it later start with episode 11. Only those who played it day one without any breaks get the full experience. All the others miss valuable parts and this is confusing as hell. Bungie explained their decision with having a small team and they can't maintain so many locations. But at least with Titan a very cool looking location got cut out and only via activities like gambit or strikes, you can see a bit of it. It's terrible. Destiny 2 suffers a lot under FOMO, if you miss a seasson you miss story, if you haven't played the very beginning, you missed the story and locations. If you you don't grind you miss access to better content. On top of it they realease a new seasson within the new addon and you often pause the story mission to get your seasson pass going. There are so many bad business decisions and management. Destiny 2 has a interesting story that can be good and has very cool locations but they way the game is structured, they give you a hard time liking it. Lightfall gave you one meh character who is this typical annoying pseudo cool dud that you see in every Marvel movie. The story itself only got interesting at the end but the reason why you do certain things and your objectives are absolute boring. For all who want to play Destiny 2 after my rant, i give you a advise that really saves you money and time. If you start with Lightfall, don't pay for the powerlevel boost that they offer you. It only gives you the soft cap which is 1750 and the starting cap is 1600, the hard cap is 1810 and higher, where you do the endgame stuff. So it doesn't really give you that much. Also if you start the very first story mission, the game ask you if you want to do it on normal or legendary which is more difficult. On normal you get items within you power level ranges so basically 1600 and + a couple levels. If you do it on legedary you get 1700 power level gear up to over 1780 powerlevel. That within the first 1-2 story missions and this is more than the boost for real money is giving you. Also the bost gives you blue garbage items without good perks and to really get use of the powerlevel you have to use them to increase the power level of your legendary equippment. So the boost is absolute ass. Also a little advise, keep items with the highest power level in your inventory and dismantel every items under that powerlevel. If you have high power level items in your inventory you more likely to drop higher gear. There are Primus engrams that always give you gear with +3 of your current power level in gear. You get pretty fast too 1800 but at 1800 it's very slow progression.

[@Grumpyk1d]

Your description really makes me sad for the game. I played the base game after the 1 time purchase and I absolutely loved the storyline and loved the characters (especially Cayde-6 as he is voiced by one of my favorite actors).I hope they haven't cut out everything to do with Cayde for a new player. It really sucks that they would purposely cut out their own story and try to replace it with other quests just to move new players a long faster. The fact that I will have missed so much story and will never be able to play it actually makes me never want to reinstall the game again.

[@kingofrome9983]

Lmao destiny 2’s base game story was NOT around 20 hours long haha. It was about 4-5 hours max

[@VideogamesPang]

I just can't understand removing story content. Having an ongoing story is fine and all, but TV shows don't just delete their early seasons to make sure that only people who have been keeping up can understand what's going on. Literally what's the point lol. Such a bizarre decision.

[@ASpaceOstrich]

@@VideogamesPang Not just bizarre. Arguably illegal. Video games and patching exists in something of a legal grey area, especially in countries with any decent consumer protection laws. Bungie is very fortunate that the consumer protection agencies aren't really proactive, or they might have bankrupted themselves with that decision. They deleted over half of Destiny 2 because they really badly needed to do a Destiny 3 but didn't think the community would survive the content drought that would require. It was the worst possible decision for the game.

[@grygaming5519]

So pretty much its the Haruhi Suzumiya of the gaming world. Unless you were there to watch everything from the beginning. Even then you are still completely lost unless you have the guide to watch all the episodes in a specific order because the animators did it out of order. Then on top you have endless 8 that puts you in a complete loop where you're unable to tell your head from your own rear end...this is why I just focused on getting my light level and skipping the damn story. I can find a recap/Destiny 2 movie vod somewhere on youtube...it just sucks I wont personally experience it due to how....dumb Bungie did their player experience.

[@owenburns3451]

i love that mike who just basically started playing the game can easily see all the things that people have me yelling about for years for bungie to change and they never do

[@21vicroy58]

As a returning player, I don't even know where to go, what to do, where I left off, what I can or can not do, etc. And the "dull" felt through dungeons is what got me and a friend to fall out. We try to come back from time to time because we remember enjoying destiny 1 but it just doesn't get any better but feels like it gets worse. :(

[@pixeljauntvr7774]

Yes! This is exactly my experience.

[@Shauk]

This.

[@BruceKarrde]

Exactly! Even when you start a fresh character, you get forced to play the expansion the 2nd or 3rd time you log on. Suddenly you're faced with videos that have nothing to do with your current story. It's such a mess and totally unpleasant. It's incredibly overwhelming and you get side tracked easily. If Destiny 2 would invest into a genuine NPE (new player experience) it would actually retain more players.

[@dirusj4006]

THis was my recent experience. Tried to come back and it was just a giant "wtf is going on"... its like the game tries to make you quit.

[@SentinelBorg]

I played Destiny 2 at release and the first addon, later I tried returning at around the fourth or fifth addon. I got a million message boxes, was at the tower and had no clue where to go on with the story. So I googled it only to find out that major parts of the previous addons already got deleted from the game. So I just gave up after about two hours and deleted the game.

[@superhello443]

Yup. They make this game for the people who can't quit it and pre-order 100$ deluxe edition expansions, and spend in the cash shop. They don't make this game for new or returning players.

[@omegaxtrigun]

@@superhello443 I mean, they literally added a major feature in the last expansion to add more direction for new players, so that's objectively false.

[@tehnoob19]

@@omegaxtrigun Then they are doing a piss-poor job of it. Perhaps they should consider adding the old content back in and making it optional to play trough, so that new/returning players can play trough that and have a sense of what the fuck is going on. But this is Bungie, they won't.

[@Dewkeeper]

​@@omegaxtrigunD2 already had a good tutorial, it was called the Red fucking War. The current new light experience is a complete joke.

[@justingonzalezcolon8652]

I don't blame you. After playing D2 since 2017, I'm probably going to stop playing it once the Final Shape expansion releases bc I can't tolerate the tedious grinding, garbage story & servers constantly becoming more unstable as time goes on

[@NezeruGaming]

If there's any two games that I love to death but could never get my friends to ever survive the rough start, its FFXIV and Destiny 2.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

I can understand 14 being rough to get into because it's slow as molasses, especially combat and ARR story wise. D2 on the other hand, what FF14 has as a slow burn but otherwise neatly packed together experience, D2 is "lol just go do new shit, what's the problem, who cares, we're not telling you anything or explaining the story even if you follow it"

[@coreydillon4330]

@@UltimaKeyMaster FF14 is like reading a book. Destiny 2 is Like hoping into the MCU for the very first time starting at Infinity War

[@KutsukiTsukiyo]

@@coreydillon4330 While they keep deleting every single old movie so Infinity War is the ONLY thing you get to experience.

[@AGrumpyWitch]

I feel this in my soul

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

@@coreydillon4330 You know, funny thing about that. My brother made me *ahem* Endgame knowing full well I haven't kept up with the movies themselves. I know of them, I know what characters they feature, so it's not like I'm some Marvel-abstained schmoe who knows nothing, but I still had very very little context for caring about the MCU iterations yet. ...Except Ant-Man 1 and Spider-Man Homecoming, ...Endgame was honestly still enjoyable. It may have been...well...literally a finale movie called Endgame, but it was well put together enough that I can still follow what's going on without *needing* literally anything leading up to it outside of old trailers. Say what you will about the MCU nowadays, picking a movie from anywhere in that range is very approachable. ...Not that any other company should be following that, though.

[@Apoxiosis]

d2 isnt a game you just casually start. they just made the new player experience easier and its still fucking dogshit. the raiding is great but imo a lot of the best raids have been vaulted and are no longer accessible because...bungie

[@CorranH99]

I also tried returning a few months back and I hopped onto my main from back in Forsaken. I played three sessions of it and each time I logged in I was taken into the intro quest for a different expansion I had missed. What the actual hell Bungie?

[@silvertineprime]

I've played Destiny for years and I knew that the new player experience was bad but I didn't realize it wat THIS bad

[@crossdaboss8914]

It's atrocious

[@BeardGrizzly]

*looks over at Preach's Warframe video" Yeah, glad I put down D2 after listening to this more again. Edit: Forgot to mention: That opening sequence was largely done by the old dev team in Destiny 1 anyway. It was a different time and it was easily one of the best parts of the original game.

[@valyriawrex]

I've played MMOs since Ultima Online, including some of the jankiest, and D2 stands out as being one of the most opaque and confusing. It honestly isn't just the new player experience, you can make a video like this about every feature in the game, every expansion, every seasonal update, the story, etc. You can muddle through on your own without guides but you're guaranteed to be misunderstanding or missing huge parts of the game (including but not limited to DIM, a near ubiquitous third party tool that makes sorting through hundreds of guns less tedious). One thing I will say is that builds and weapons are transformative in D2. They easily have as much impact on your gameplay as your class. In particular when you're just starting off, having a good workhorse exotic primary is so much more fun than just plinking at huge health bars with the random crap you found as drops (which is basically like playing through GW2 just pressing 1-1-1-1-1-1-1). Hopefully someone on your team will at least nudge you in the direction of a solid starter exotic, I know it's not in the spirit of Project MMO but it's such a difference in fun factor that IMO it's worth it (especially after he's already ground through the first few missions on legendary).

[@AardvarkPaysOff]

Building gets thrown out the window once you must fight champions that require certain mods and weapons to be equipped and harder content makes meta pics almost necessary, with the hardest content like GM Nightfall's, a requirement for perfect tryhard meta builds

[@omegaxtrigun]

@@AardvarkPaysOff I don't know when the last time you played, but dealing with champions is way less restrictive now. They added anti-champion affects to various subclass abilities and keywords, so you can deal with a lot of them with abilities alone. Also, harder content does not require meta pics. That's a myth. The only people who think that are the lfg players who need to crutch the most op stuff because they're bad.

[@Vendetta8247]

yes and no. During the campaign you actually get your first exotic. It's not great but it's a huge step up after running with random purple gear. The mods and other systems are way more confusing but yeah, MMO spirit and so on

[@lanycera]

@@AardvarkPaysOff That's just incorrect. There are SO many ways to deal with champions now - intrinsic traits (eg radiant, volatile) and the weapons from the artifact. I've completed GMs and have done speedrun of GMs, as well as contest mode raid, on builds you'd call "off-meta". I've also did it on warlock subclasses and with exotics others called shit at the time - like arc. People cry metah all the time in the community and lost their shit when starfire got nerfed, but you can do any content in the game on any class perfectly fine. Some picks clearly make it easier (stasis + strand for CC, well for survivability) and there is an optimised DPS meta for raid bosses but what you are saying is definitely wrong.

[@cerulean5032]

He already has quicksilver storm, that is more than enough. Not many better exotic primaries for pve.

[@Ch4pp13]

My main gripe with Destiny 2 is the story they're telling is built on everything that came before it. It's all relevant in some form, building bridges, proving your worth, all that good stuff. You start Destiny 2 today, and you get a 7 minute recap that tells you what's happened. If you have any question as to who literally anyone is, you need to go to KZbin for that. Because a vast majority of it was seasonal stories. Mithraks joining up with the Last City with his House of Light had an entire arc surrounding the increasing unrest between Humanity and Eliksni that's summed up as "worked through our differences". Caiatl's literally the daughter of Calus who worked to find the Cabal most loyal to her cause, having Guardians go through Rites of Provings in Cabal culture, all summed up as "an unlikely ally". Season of the Haunted (I think) from what I've heard had characters go through like actual character development, acknowledge their trauma and grow stronger from it instead of letting it eat away at them, and I highly doubt that's even mentioned. The worst part is you cannot experience any of this in game. You cannot start at chapter 1 of any of these stories in game to see how they played out. **They build up a really interesting universe full of unique factions dealing with fantastical forces and they dictate what you can and cannot experience**. Destiny 2 is an okay book with a dedicated fanbase, but every 3 months they rip out chapters and replace them with new ones, and the fanbase is just okay with having content they paid for being ripped out of the game never to be played or experienced again. If you missed a chapter and didn't pay for access to the chapters, tough fucking shit dumbass. Getting into the game is hard. Getting to care about the story's harder. If the story wasn't important and that it's "okay because [insert that John Carmack quote here]", why is the story a main selling point with every new season? Every new expansion? It gives context to what's happening, and context improves the quality on display, and treating context as something to be thrown away because it "doesn't matter" and "you can just look it up on KZbin" worsens the overall experience. Massively.

[@AngelSeph]

100%, I left when they started content vaulting and returned this season; spoiler opening cutscene aside, walking around the tower I felt like CLEARLY I’M MISSING SOME CONTEXT HERE.

[@cattysplat]

Top it off most players don't care about the story anyway. Your john/jane spacehelmet shooting spongebobs in space, bungie style. Numbers go brrr...

[@nailinthefashion]

​@@cattysplat I literally just like collecting green and pink things while flying around 🤷🏾‍♂️😭

[@TheAtomoh]

@@cattysplat PvE players play for the lore and story. PvP players are masochists.

[@Whit3_Tig3R]

At the start of new week when you log in and see dungeon being locked behind a pay wall, it just breaks the heart Quit when they tested these practices out(it was something ridiculous Expansion + Battle Pass + Dungeon key, correct me if I'm wrong) Still love the game but I don't want to subjugate myself or my wallet to that.

[@shinski8114]

yeah not to mention they are raising the battle pass price now too. So they are getting lazy and way more greedier at the same time.

[@Splizacular]

Heyyyyy, you tried Destiny 2....i am SO sorry! Game has so much potential that just seems to keep falling flat

[@super-manny5648]

I played a lot I don’t necessarily think it falls why it just falls. Why if you’re returning or new player it’s just like the Plemon airy hours you have to put in before it starts you know ramping up

[@bigfloppa9594]

Sounds like you don't know what game you're talking about

[@Hades430]

I remember starting the game during Shadowkeep, right before entering the Pyramid. The game set the mood perfectly, sparking my curiosity about what lay inside. However, when I saw a Season Quest in the Orbit and decided to complete it, a cutscene suddenly appeared without warning, spoiling everything inside the Pyramid. This happened again in Beyond Light. At that point, I just don't give a damn about the story anymore I heard someone say that getting into Destiny is hard, but caring about its story is even harder it's 100% true.

[@Joel96Pettersson]

This is exactly what happened to me, I played when the game first came out and then went to play other things. When I returned to the game everything was such a mess that I simply didn't care enough to actually learn what I missed, so I just quit.

[@LankyLost]

Its not really F2P, I wish they would stop marketing it like that. Its an old school demo to get a feel for the gameplay, the content of merit is all packaged up in the expansions. Sunsetting and vaulting was incredibly controversial and likely the biggest mistake Bungie ever made with this franchise. Only seasonal content gets retired now, and thats only once a year. The criticism for vaulting previous expansions is deserved, but its something they havent done in 2 years and wont be doing again in the future.

[@LankyLost]

But yes, new/ returning player experience is absolutely embarrassing

[@Darro85]

This is why I have a hard time ever going back to D2 because they retire the seasonal content. It just feels like a game you have to play constantly to get somewhere unlike something like FF XIV where it is fine to take a break until the next patch or so and you know it will always be there even if you don’t play for months or over a year.

[@ASpaceOstrich]

They haven't stopped vaulting the seasons, which is the lions share of each expansion, and until they unvault the old stuff the criticism will remain valid. It was borderline illegal to do what they did regarding sunsetting.

[@romeojblock6928]

Actually dungeons were not separate from the expansions that only happened in witch queen! I still think it's waaay too greedy of a move! Especially that most expansions don't have new (New) content, and a lot of it is recycled and remodeled! Bosses, guns, locations, etc.

[@calvinwilson3617]

The worst part is this shit happens literally every expansion. Every time they drop a new one they essentially delete old content (seasonal quests)

[@voidwalker9939]

I have 6k hours in Destiny 2 and I can tell you that noone knows what in the hell the Veil is, or the Radial mast, we have chased the Macguffin for the whole campaign... Your criticism is very fair and valid and honestly I don't think any long term player disagrees. It's brutal trying to introduce someone to D2

[@VoiceOfTheEmperor]

You're extremely correct, Preach. It's aggravating. But then again, Destiny has ALWAYS struggled with good tutorials.

[@goon009]

thats a interesting way of saying deleting content that you paid for because their either talentless or too laze to make content so you return to those areas

[@Zabzim]

Destiny has never done a tutorial or for that matter summarised the lore. Your just kind of expected to go find Datto’s and Mynameisbyf’s videos for tutorials/lore summaries.

[@Zabzim]

@@goon009 don’t worry they’ve sun set sun setting.

[@ianneilson8684]

@@goon009 as a player since year 1, all the stuff they "deleted" was shit that wasnt touched by the community for years. Its not missed, and frankly is a non issue to real players. Sunset weapons i could see the argument for, but they have adressed that by re issuing sunset weapons with updated perk pools.

[@Shade5]

@@ianneilson8684it is an issue, Bungie had no real excuse to delete so much content. They claimed that it would make the game more stable and let them update it more often, but look at where we are now the game is even less stable than it was before BL and the updates aren’t coming fast enough to fix these issues.

[@Shadowfury45]

Genuinely glad you made a video on this topic. Had quite a few friends not even make it to the tower since prior to this season it would lock you into the starting area until you completed the main "intro" which in bungie style had no direction and required a second tab open with the walkthrough

[@Sen-wah]

Trying to play the legendary campaign solo, as a new player, with essentially no good gear was a massive mistake

[@Ellaphant]

Quite possibly the worst way to start the game EDIT: not that there's a good way to start the game either

[@TruePermafrost]

How the story of Destiny 2 and how the game is developed is like all of the bad things of The original concept of Guild Wars 2 Living World Seasons

[@drakeno4273]

Honestly as someone who loves this game, i was super worried about Preach's review of this expansion, the days before the expansion i couldnt wait, then this one was such a departure from the quality of the witch queen in terms of story and onboarding that i was dreading preach having an awful time, glad he managed to get past the returning player issues

[@drakeno4273]

Also on top of this, i feel like Destiny's biggest issue is they planned very poorly ahead of time on how they want people who didnt buy content as it came out to get into the game

[@zometthecomet]

Well the biggest issue is that the player base remembers when the game was good and continues to push that the game WAS good! And still could be good! BUT it is not good and is in a very bad place soooooo😅

[@drakeno4273]

@@zometthecomet I guess agree to disagree, In terms of pure gameplay Lightfall has been one of the best for loadout/activity diversity than any other point in the games lifespan, not even witch queen had me coming back every week for atleast 5+ hours for a whole season, and if the monetization model wasnt a nightmare currently it would be a great game for newer players because most of the content that wasnt removed is still actively ran and can drop items that are meaningfully powerfull in the current year

[@Valkaneer]

I played the game for the first time and found myself unable to do a damn thing after the first real quest line was done. I was introduced to 3 Captains or something and I think this was to pick what ever class I wanted to play (I can't remember fully). Then from there nothing, I had some GROUP quest, but it was impossible to do by yourself, and literally no one was doing it. I spent and hour trying to do it by myself, but the quest becomes impossible eventually to do solo. I could go to different locations like the moon or Saturn or something, but as soon as I went there Bungie would give me some new cinematic and I had no idea WTF was going on, who any of these people were or what any of it had to do with me. It was the worst and I just quit the game after that. I read somewhere the Bungie vaulted the entire first game more or less, in other words locked it away so that new players don't play it, which leaves you totally clueless of anything that's going on. It cost Bungie 3 or 4 sales because they gave out the first game for free, but locked it up, so you were lost. It pissed me off so bad that I refused to buy any of the other games, and haven't ever since. I'm still pissed off over a year later. I spent all that time on what I thought was going to be a cool game just to get a big FU from the company.

[@Fantic1980]

I played Destiny 2 for the first time in about 4 years at the weekend. I'd only played for about about an hour back then. My game crashed during the opening battle. When I logged back in, I was at the star map. I had a character already 1600 ilevel and rank 6 and no fucking clue what was going on. I uninstalled the game about 20 minutes later after giving up.

[@omegaxtrigun]

Everyone starts at 1600 ilevel. It's the base gear level. They move the base ilvl up every expansion so that new players don't have to grind a ton to catch up.

[@amazingcoregaming3083]

Side note: Yes you can upgrade ur favourite exotics to the new content, but if ur a returning player, depending from how long ago, ur favourite purple gear cannot be upgraded to the new content and thus you have to get all new gear excluding the exotics.

[@dannyboi7877]

Dude, we veterans still don’t know what the veil is. Bungie has the worst writing team I’ve ever seen. If it wasn’t for the raids and dungeons being amazing this game would be trash tier.

[@deadclicks]

Watching preach try to navigate the first room of duality was agonizing. The learning curve for all of the classes jumps can be rough and dungeons+raids are def not the best content to run when you're so experienced w/ em.

[@juansarmiento6754]

Glad your calling out all this stuff about Destiny. It's crazy this game has a high production value yet has all these issues from a design perspective.

[@khaayel]

I tried it on Steam about 4 months ago, never played D1 or D2 before, it shot me right into the veteran starting area, no explanation past the first NPC, unexplained systems on top of systems, horrid UI, trying to do my story "quest" in the middle of open zone events that keep killing me with swarms of mobs. Uninstalled within 3 hours, and blocked everything from this developer on Steam. I've never been so frustrated with a newbie experience that I've blocked an entire studio before...

[@bleepfakes]

I played it lots up until Beyond Light then gave in. If you arent part of a guild or whatever its called you aint doing no end game. There are zero match making systems for that. The only way to find other players was via an app, terrible system. Oh and some of the older jumping puzzles raids, the one to get Whisper of the Worm, are insanely difficult. Dont even get me started about Outbreak Perfected

[@trikeabout]

Well as a seasoned player I agree with almost everything you say here. I have semiregularly wiped one of my three characters to see "what the new player experience is like", and a simple option for a new character to gate the story in order based on what expansions you have would be SO MUCH BETTER than the assumption that you're setting up a second character and want to skip stuff. Track your quests! That helps a lot. Track the New Light Quest and finish it, then do the Dreaming City story mission. Then track Shadowkeep (Moon) -> Beyond Light (Europa) -> Witch Queen (Mars/Throne World) -> Lightfall (Neptune). Just did all that in order with a new hunter. It makes a lot more sense. It does suck that it's not possible to start with the Red War and some of the old Forsaken story missions as an intro for new players even if that was a linear campaign before opening up the free roam.

[@guyjorstad8417]

This is another one of those games that I really want to play ... but holy crap I have no idea what's going on. And yes, I created a character and played for like 5 minutes years ago. So I think I'm caught in this limbo.

[@ritvikroy3458]

I am so glad someone covered the new/ returning player experience. Bungie took out 3 years of content and does not replace it with anything that tells the new players about the world and events that happened not to mention the confusion about what dlc to buy and the season passes.

[@BloodKaez]

"What the hell is the Veil?" I'm gonna level with you, that's a question WE have too. I didn't.... mind... the story too much, I just wish they didn't focus on strand as much as they did. This expansion didn't impress me as much as some previous expansions. Witch Queen, Forsaken (shame that's gone). Strikes are not scaled, if you go in alone, it treats you as if you were a 3 person group. Dungeons aren't scaled either, but tends to be somewhat more difficult (some dungeons easier than others).

[@BSKTCreation]

I hate how Bungie takes my game that I paid good money for and turns it into a unplayable free to play account!!! When they did this they lost me as a player forever!!!

[@Dimortii]

Banger of a video. Loved the intro and chris rocking the critical role merch. I stopped playing deariny during Beyond Light because the quality just dipped and they kept reintroducing weapons and armor that was sunset. Suddenly i was grinding the same things i already owned but could no longer use and I was just done. I had started playing FF14 and realized that a game should respect the time of the player. Something Destiny does not do in my opinion.

[@samadams2203]

This is pretty similar to my new player experience back in late 2019 when the game became free to play on steam. I get in the game, they bring me to the hub and then...who are these people? What am I fighting for? Why is stuff happening? All the building block story is old content which is stuffed away either inaccessible or difficult to find. It felt like being dropped into the very end of Stormblood in FFXIV, how am I supposed to understand any of what is happening like this? I didn't really like or dislike the gameplay, but I felt completely lost in the story which completely ruined the game for me. I played just short of 9 hours.

[@Kramdaddy]

Preach touches on it, but my biggest complaint about Destiny is how they _really_ want you playing with others and with my health, it can be hard for me to tackle things in group content without having to take breaks, so there are times where I would rather engage with that content solo. FF14 for example has Squads/Trusts that allow me to play dungeons this way, and I don't feel hampered by it. I really want to like Destiny, but man, I can't play a raid or a strike if it's going to take hours, my body wont allow it.

[@nailinthefashion]

Even as a returning player since the D1 beta, I'm confused too. Not sure where to start other than maxing out stasis, unlocking strand etc the really obvious stuff

[@RoughToughTonkasGotTheStuff]

I had this exact same experience and yeah I gave up pretty quick lol

[@lunarath1]

I play Destiny 2 a bit at release and has been thinking about trying out again. Guess I won't until they let me play through the beginning.

[@superhello443]

Ok so, imagine this: You bought FFXIV. The game starts and you do the Skirim opening. Then, you're level 60 in Doma and you continue (start) the MSQ from there. ARR and HW zones and blue quests are available, but that story is just out of the game because... Welp, they just "vault content." No one knows why? Server space (for solo missions?) Cluttered map screen? (yes, it could be that petty, it's Bungie) But they just delete content you paid for. New players can never experience the story, and they get to experience less every expansion because one comes in, one goes out. It's just a fucking mess. They know this, they don't care about this. It's modern Bungie without Big Brother telling them to make sense of their game + the cash shop's worse lmao... The reason why it's aggravating is because it could just be available from a big campaign menu as single player missions but it's not. Why? It's just not. End of story.

[@aleciaregister162]

This. Also, weapons and armor from those xpacs are just... gone, as well. If you have them they're still in your bank, but you can't use them, and they just take up room b/c you can't get rid of them because you can't get them back if you do.

[@omegaxtrigun]

" They know this, they don't care about this." I agree that the new player experience is rough, but this sentence is just untrue. They literally added a new feature to the game to give new players more direction with the latest expansion.

[@omegaxtrigun]

@@aleciaregister162 You can still use old gear in some places like most pvp and some other things. And if it's gear that's old enough you can get it back from collections.

[@rd-um4sp]

Yeah, if I have to watch a YT video (or look at chat, in Preach's case) to understand what's going on in my game, that game is not for me.

[@barbos1507]

Yep, huge appreciation for covering the game. I don't hope for bungie to fix new player experience, not until destiny 3, but even then it's probably gonna botched.

[@krucible9369]

I played D2 when it initially launched and checked out the expansions here and there but never got seriously into the game because of how awful the returning player experience is. The game is good enough to get millions of people to come back and play but Bungie’s incompetence has prevented D2 from ever being a game that has tens of millions of players

[@IncubiAkster]

Loved base Destiny 2 on release, finished the first raid and it was fantastic, then quit the game. Tried to come back years later, and it is just not approachable in any way for a returning or new player. Complete and utter disgusting mess, locked most of the content I HAD and was able to play int he base game, can't really go through the expansions stories in order. Idk wtf the game wanted me to even do.

[@Sad_Cabbage]

It is interesting that destiny 2 is the only game i know that has literally removed almost all of the content that was released in the first couple years of the game. And if you are a returning player you basically have to buy the game again and figure out what to do on your own. I am especially sad that the missions for whisper of the worm is gone, it was probably one of the best missions that they have ever made.

[@remziel]

The game doesn't explicitly tell you this, but there is a quest archive you can access in the Tower next to the Postmaster that allows you to go through the entire "New Light" experience. Obviously me having to point this out and you not discovering natural is a problem in itself but there IS technically a way to do it. If you had EVER gone through any variant of the tutorial the game assumes you already did the most recent iteration. That said, I hope you are able to reacclimate yourself and give the raids all a shot. VoG is a pretty good starting point, Deep Stone Crypt would be another good one. If you're really looking for a challenge I recommend doing Last Wish (no cheesing the last boss either)

[@krackawoody2556]

Id love if you had an interview with Byf about the game tbh

[@RvLeshrac]

What's that accomplish? It would be substantially better to have an actual Bungie devteam or management member talk to a new player like this.

[@krackawoody2556]

@@RvLeshrac Because they are two content creators I enjoy and a colaboration would be content I would enjoy watching. Like his interview with MightyTeapot on GW2

[@Hickeroar]

Coming back to the game is really confusing. It’s too much and I always put it down before being able to comprehend what’s going on.

[@william7th88]

I’ve tried coming back to Destiny 2 a month or two ago and got really annoyed with not knowing what to do so i quick after 2 hours or just looking at the menus. Great game but terrible for new ppl to get into it

[@MichaelFrostZA]

Great summary here Preach, Destiny 2 - to me - felt so lackluster due to the scaling. I never felt like I was getting stronger in any of the content. After the story (which I enjoyed at launch) I felt like all I was doing was increaing the number for my gear score, never felt like I was getting stronger and it all felt pointless. After the first expansion I struggled to figure out what I was meant to do and just felt... empty. Whats the point of getting the BIS and getting +1000 points in your gear to have the same time to kill on old content? I have tried to pick it up and now and then over and over, but every time I was left with a feeling of frustation. Really enoyed the gun play and story (that which I completed) but overall I feel that Bungie dropped the ball on their player experiance & progression.

[@cattysplat]

You never get stronger, everything scales with you anyway. Light level is just a gatekeep for entering dungeons/raids. Forcing you to grind it higher.

[@Kamasillvia]

The funniest thing is nobody knows what veil is lol

[@TheRealCeeJai]

3:34 I would argue that if an intro has a vibe that isn't replicated anywhere else in the game it isn't a "really great introduction to the game". If I'm playing a game that has a horror vibe during the intro, I expect the game itself to have a horror vibe.

[@cynthiahembree3957]

My condolences Preach. This is quite possibly the worst new player experience in gaming. I only still play because my friends do. Anyway I wish you good luck in project MMO. Eyes up Guardian I can't wait to see what you think.

[@theninja2k14]

Destiny 2 is just not new player friendly at ALL so if your newbie you are gonna be SO confused by everything and you just get dumped into the game with like 500 quests so people just get overwhelmed and bounce off that's not to talk about the pvp scene and vaulting of content that you just straight up miss great story beats and moments and have to watch 3-4 hour lore videos to get caught up

[@Sargaxiist2022]

Mike, what you need to understand is that Bungie assumes that every new player will have a veteran guiding them. They gave up on NPE/RPE a long time ago

[@MacCoy]

that explains why i was lost etc in destiny. i got to the tower and i had no idea what to do.

[@IamQuh]

Yeah... I had this exact intro experience. Why is there a man with faces smoking out of his head fighting an ORB? Why is he getting shot at with space tree beams? What the hell is Lance Reddick babbling about.. RIP :( Wait where did these surfer space sharks come from?

[@omegaxtrigun]

You're looking at a cinematic for the current expansion. So ya you're not going to understand it as a new player.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

@@omegaxtrigun They force you to look at it as a new player. Hello. Why are you showing a NEW PLAYER Chapter 55 of a book they just started? Even better, *you don't need to own Lightfall* to be force-fed that cutscene. They force it on everyone regardless.

[@omegaxtrigun]

@@UltimaKeyMaster They force it on everyone because it talks about the entire story leading up to the expansion. It's literally a story summary for those who may not have played the old content.

[@user-cm3gd8rf6p]

One thing about the recommended power levels. it doesn't matter how high you get the game will cap you at 20 over what ever is recommend, unless it something like gms which caps you at a specific amount below the recommended.

[@xXDarthBagginsXx]

For a first D2 Raid experience I would Highly recommend Last Wish over VoG but that's just me. Also the returning experience should recognize last time logged in to refresh users of tools available to them, since alot of them have been tweaked or changed. But your experience is spot on - the new user experience does need some tweaks as well for those coming in on a fresh account.

[@wilhelm2112ryan]

Personally I would not recommend Last Wish as a first raid. VOG or DSC are great starting point raids as they are both really chill but still give you an idea of what to expect from raiding in destiny.

[@chapperssmashes4120]

I am a big wow player, and the Best Raids in Destiny 2 are Vault of Glass 2.0, Kings Fall 2.0, And Last Wish from Forsaken. Vault of Glass and Kings fall were added back to the game from Destiny 1 for free, with mechanic changes and Enemy updates. I personally haven't done Root of Nightmares yet from Lightfall.

[@azurblueknights]

Bungie should have immediately started production on Destiny 3 as soon as they separated from Activision instead of dumping all this manpower into Destiny 2, a game that had already suffered heavily under Activision's yoke. As it stands, I'm pretty sure that Lightfall and the end of the Light versus Dark story is the end of Destiny as a whole. Even with its dedicated fanbase, I do not believe that Bungie is making enough money to keep Destiny going after the end of the current saga they've been (trying) to tell.

[@kadendusk]

I don't disagree about them needing to make D3 but I strongly disagree that they aren't making money, Destiny 2 makes between $100 to $500 million per year and they just got brought for $3.7 billion by Sony, they have no shortage of money and Destiny makes them a lot.

[@azurblueknights]

@kadendusk If they're making so much money, why is D2 in the state it's in currently? Surely if D2 is making as much money as you claim, then Bungie would have long ago made the game more friendly for new and returning players who have no clue what the hell is going on as soon as they jump in-- starting with the unnecessary sunsetting of "older content".

[@kadendusk]

@@azurblueknights Look my dude, I don't think Bungie is doing a good job, they are doing a pretty mid job, at best but the amount of money they make has less than zero impact on sunsetting or how bad the new/returning player experience is, they have nothing to do with each other. How much a game makes has very little to do with how well it is maintained or how inactive it is, look at COD and FIFA, they are basically the same game as they were 10 years ago and still make a ton of money. Also, I don't claim anything, I am going by what is stated as their yearly income from D2, it's not hard to find if you google it...

[@catbeans4685]

It's not just the returning player experience. I had no idea what to do as a new player and also got stuck at the tower. I logged off and tried again the next day only to immediately start in the middle of a mission with a team of players shooting things and I have no idea why I'm doing it, and how I got here. I deleted the game after that.

[@xXHoRiiZoN32]

Destiny 2 has one of the worst new player experiences. If you’re caught up to date with everything it can be fun with friends

[@jmbrady1]

this is the result of cut content that they said they'd bring back but never did

[@stu.chainz]

What they need to do is delete Destiny 2 and just restart with Destiny 1. Destiny 2 ruined everything

[@justingonzalezcolon8652]

A Destiny 3 with all the content from D1 & D2 enrolled into one would be much better, but I get what you mean

[@personperson5521]

The Lightfall caimpaign biggest crime was not just choosing to be accessible to new players, nor to those who followed the story and lore closely all those years like me. And if you didnt realize, thats, 100% of the playerbase. None of us understand the story.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

The story has always been "this is important!" "why is it important?" "WE MUST FIGHT FOR THE IMPORTANT THING" "okay why and who are we fighting" "THE BAD GUY" It's insane to me how this series has like six enemy factions and not a single one of them live up to Halo's *two* big ones established in the very first game it refused to deviate from until its founders left. Fully convinced nobody who actually cared about Halo's story ever worked on Destiny, and if they did, they slipped hardcore.

[@personperson5521]

@@UltimaKeyMaster i actually disagree, The Witch Queen and other storylines were done well. Lightfall was a massive L, but my critisms dont mean i dont still love the game and the direction it was going, and hopefully still is.

[@pixeljauntvr7774]

The worst part for me is that I PAID for a few of those expansion campaigns and now they're gone.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

@@personperson5521 Witch Queen may be the only time I ever truly understood any single enemy we were actually fighting. Otherwise I don't know why any of these factions just send endless waves of goons at us, not why we even bother putting up trying to fight an endless stalemate.

[@Zabzim]

Destiny 2 isn’t an mmo, fallout 76 way more an mmo

[@IncubiAkster]

10/10 best bullshit take I have read int he past 2 minutes that legit no one cares about or asked for. Gz

[@Zabzim]

@@IncubiAkster well really D2 is a looter shooter with a thin veneer of RPG game mechanics on top and the sooner that preach understands this the better. Still this whole thing is god damn hilarious, he’s talking about best in slot weapons (which doesn’t really exist in D2) while rocking a light level of 1620. 1620! Sure the game in no way says light level is important as that’s a D1 hold out but by god is it important and now he’s going to try VoG. Well I hope someone is around to carry his ass through that raid or he’s going to struggle

[@omegaxtrigun]

Fallout 76 is nowhere near an mmo lol.

[@omegaxtrigun]

@@Zabzim VoG is a 1600 power activity. Him figuring out game mechanics would hold him back more than power.

[@Zabzim]

@@omegaxtrigun even if it a 1600 power raid, light level still matters for determining damage numbers. Going into it at 1620 will be similar to doing it on conquest mode. So while it won’t certainly be impossible, it’s going to be much harder than if he was at the soft cap at the least.

[@hunterdnd]

10:00 It doesn't. The first video does try to catch you up to speed (doing a horrible job at it), and logging in after that the game assumes that you are ready to go into the newest expansion. So the upon the next login it does the same thing it does with every player: plays the intro CG of the new expansion and throws you into the new MSQ.

[@Raika63]

Huh, did the music not even change or anything for that "silver surfer" cutscene? That felt completely devoid of energy. I feel like that could have been cool but it just felt... slow. The cityscape behind looked like it had some serious potential. I feel like there was vision but due to whatever constraints they didn't manage to execute.

[@yukopangestu3293]

I totally agree and have similar experience. I suddenly remembered after playing Destiny 2 that I have played it LAST TIME but quit because of my rig (just couple of minutes playing). After getting back into it, suddenly i was brought with new cutscene and goes to veteran. Preach have summed up pretty much my experience as "returning player" it was BAD... I don't know that they have mod system until i watched some youtube. It's pretty bad for someone that want to experience it but too much hassle to watch youtube for some guidance. My additional comment about preach probably 2 things. 1. I don't know if you are first timer on any story and you suddenly wanna go legendary difficulty and expect some "unboringness" because I think it should be compared with normal difficulty. 2. They should really need to add some text about MATCHMAKING, you don't know if that content being have matchmaking system or not That's it, i'm still playing destiny 2 just because of the loot and grind.

[@tomrayson7702]

Towards the end you mention that Duality isnt designed to be solo'd by a 1620 power player. 1620 is actually the power cap for the dungeon so if you go in at 1800 you do the same damage as someone at 1620. Bungie doesn't explain this anywhere though.

[@fleetcommand]

The same thing what Preach is experiencing around minute 4 or 5 happens as a new player as well. You are in the middle of the something, the game tells you nothing.. which I kind of accept, if it is followed by some discovery, but actually there's no such thing. I played a few hours of Destiny 2, but after went through the first tunnel-thing, I had no idea what was happening. People were doing random things, mission markers all over the place, you have no idea what is what. Awful experience as a new player. Game might be still good though, but you don't have the sense of discovery, the feeling of working towards something, because all you have is all the things thrown at you at the same time.

[@EverianKalim]

"Whats the Veil?" Welcome to the D2 Club, we dont either...

[@Grumpyk1d]

I haven't played Destiny 2 since the Forsaken expansion but one thing I absolutely loved about the base game and Forsake was the storyline and the voice acting (being that they have some massive actors doing the voice work). Hearing that they dropped the ball so hard on the story line is a massive let down and makes me very sad. Hopefully they are able to create another really great bunch of storylines in the future.

[@aculmandude]

⁠ Speaking as a destiny 2 player when it first came out, it was a video game campaign. I deleted it after my friends and I realized there wasn’t much content after max lvl but the campaign was fun. When I returned destiny 2 doesn’t feel like a video game campaign, just a mission selector with missions I have no context for. It’s just kinda confusing for me why’d they make destiny 2 then remover destiny 2s campaign to replace it with destiny 1s intro and release/ content update schedule?

[@ebichuman84]

As a returning player who had played Destiny 1 and the intro to the Red War during the beta I was confused af too. Loading into the game on a fresh account and expecting to do the Red War campaign, I was instead sent back to the Cosmodrome intro from Destiny 1 with a few extra steps towards the end. After one or two missions through Destiny 1 environments I landed in the Tower with no idea what I was supposed to be doing or why I was repeating the original intro. After some Googling I learned that the oldest available quest (I wanted to experience the story chronologically) was Forsaken and so I started that quest but every now and then when I would boot up the game and without warning, skip the orbit screen and get loaded into random story missions for other quests. At first I didn't even realise I was playing another quest chain and so I was playing through campaign missions without any context or understanding of what was happening only to eventually be hit by a notice that it was a paid campaign and I had just wasted my time doing the wrong activity. At no point do I remember being directed to any useful tutorials about new systems and on top of that a story character who I understood to be the antagonist of the quest I was currently playing was just hanging out in the tower. I dropped the game shortly after and honestly, with the current content vaulting and onboarding experience I just can't understand how it maintains a healthy playerbase at all.

[@clumsyturtle8544]

The last time I looked at Destiny was when the first game launched and reviews and players said the story in game told you nothing and now it sounds like the story in game still tells you nothing.

[@RustynaylzGaming]

I paused at :51 in and I just need to say: this is next level editing. -standing ovation- well done, sir. Well. Fucking. Done.

[@kamil666555]

Destiny had so much potential when it first came out, but over the year of frailer Bungie stopped carrying about this game

[@Lionheart-tu4zs]

Sadly I never finished the red war as I play slowly, exploring and messing about while also waiting for friends so as not to leave them behind. And then suddenly, it's all gone.

[@kerbain]

I came in knowing nothing about the game about 2 months ago. I finally understand MOST of the menus, options and things available to me. If I didn't have friends that already played, honestly, I don't think I would have stuck with it. Glad I stuck with it now... But it also make its difficult to recommend to other friends, knowing the confusing mess they will me met with.

[@MrCubassss]

the dungeons are in fact designed to be soloable, so the tooltip should display 1-3. but i understand the frustration, it's not gonna be obvious to many new players that dungeons are a pick your challenge type of thing depending on fireteam size. especially not after they have been playing scaled campaign content

[@Merandil94]

I have some friends who always talk about the fun they have in Destiny 2, who really seem to enjoy themselves. But I am a story based player. And quickly learned that the older story stuff apparently just is not accessible anymore. Which turned all that interest built up via my friends, crumpled it up and threw it into the trash bin right quick.

[@morganagod]

I have 6057 hours in Destiny 2 on Steam alone. I've been playing since D1 Beta. I could write an essay on the stuff you mentioned, and why it's that way. I did, actually, but I'll keep it short by comparison. "Destiny is my favorite game, I hate it." is a cliche in the community for a reason. The game is one of the best FPS games I've played, only out down by stuff like Titanfall 2 and DOOM. It has some of the best scifi/fantasy narratives since Star Wars. The PVP... could use some work, but it's still unique and fun and they manage to make it work even through its challenges. Many of the problems that plague new players, returning players, and veteran players can be boiled down to decisions made for the sake of greed. Destiny 2 is basically the videogame version of the ship of Theseus. In fact, I'd argue Destiny 2 doesn't exist anymore. For fun, and context, I'd suggest looking up both the red war campaign, and how transmog worked when it was first released. Engaging content that gets you invested has been traded for long grinds that trick the player into thinking they're invested based on how much time they've sunk in. But it doesn't work long term. At over 6000 hours, I find myself logging in less and less. The goal of this introductory mission is to get you out there as quickly as possible in the hopes you'll find something to grind for. I really hope that some of the magic of the game shines through the BS for you.

[@stupidusernameize]

I've tried so many times to get into this great shooter. I love the gunplay, some missions etc. But after the amazing intro missions I always seem to just get lost as to what to do next. There's so many different types of currency with no explanation. I always end up quitting out of frustration.

[@sadmiqoxiv]

What bungie need to do, is take deatiny 2, find the nearest bin and drop it in there. Go grab the backup of year 4 destiny 1 and start rebuilding.

[@BadgerOff32]

Yeah, the returning player experience is horrendous. I played D2 a fair bit in year one and a little in year 2, but sometimes it can be months before I go back and play again, and usually when I do, a new expansion or two has dropped and the returning experience is a complete mess. So, as soon as I log in I'm bombarded with a ton of messages about things I don't really understand yet, before being forcibly thrown into a mission I didn't ask to start. That mission will last for a good half hour or more, maybe even over an hour if I suck at it, during which time I'll have literally NO IDEA what's going on and I'm getting my arse whooped constantly because it's been a year since I last played and can't quite remember all the buttons. The last time I played (quite recently, when Lightfall came out) I literally couldn't even figure out how to use my super or my ranged melee because they'd reworked all the subclass systems AND the button mapping, so things just weren't working like they used to, and I couldn't figure it out, and the game didn't bother to explain why! It's _REALLY_ handy when you're in the middle of a tough fight and you activate your Hunters Arc super to clear a bunch of adds.....and then you can't figure out how to actually attack with it! Really helpful, that! After banging my head against that particular wall as I get used to playing the game again, I'll finally beat the mission. Then I'll be randomly dumped off somewhere like the Tower or some other place I've never seen before and......that's it. The game's just like "Well, you're on your own now, mate. Figure it out", and I'll spend the next 10 minutes wandering around aimlessly like "What? Who? Where??? What do I do now? Who should I speak to?? Where do I go???". Yet my quest log will have about 10 quests flashing in there that make absolutely NO SENSE because they're written in utter gibberish and offer no explanation as to what or where it is, and I'll be like "OK, so, which one's the one I need to do first??" It's just a mess. It really puts me off from sticking around. I'll play for about an hour or two (mostly running around on familiar patrol planets shooting random enemies and doing bounties for a bit), and then I won't touch the game again for months.

[@lelouch1990itachi]

This Video is probably some of the best articulate frustrations from new and old players alike. Thank you for putting it in words! Sidenote for the researchers that worked on this game. Content doesn't scale based on player count. The only content that does this are some seasonal activities, and campaigns. The rest of the game is the exact same power scaling. And even then a lot of it feels minimal since once you are 10 power level above the reccomended you do not deal extra damage.

[@NPDStudio]

Looking forward to seeing the Destiny Raids - as a non-mic player, I’m essentially locked out of every raid + the matchmaking pis so abysmal, I could never get into a raid. So I’ll get to see it second-hand from your stream / VODs. ❤ For now though - you’re currently doing my favourite content (FFXIV Blue Mage) and I’m loving the journey + Trial & Error Stubbornness which I appreciate ^^ 🎉

[@SNOON242]

i have sherpa'd one or 2 non mic players through raid's it was a little tough but honestly fine as long as it is just 1 at a time due to most raids requiring communication, i know last wish can be done with one person having no mic as it is one i have done with no mic. i hope you get to try them with a group at some point.

[@spacebunsarah]

You should have no problem with RoN having no mic!

[@zaldorn6128]

I know someone probably already said this and you're aware of it but dungeons are scaled to your light level, all content in destiny is scaled with the exceptions of nightfalls, master dungeons, master raids, and contest modifier raids (only available the first 24-48 hours after the raid is released depending on the raid). the reason dungeons were harder is because the encounters are designed around having 3 people to handle everything going on with all of the adds and everything else. it's not so much a gear or light level thing as it is an understanding of the games core mechanics and how they fit in with the current meta. that all being said the only content in the game that scales based on fireteam size is actually the legend campaign, it gets significantly harder with more people.