Sword logic and The Final Shape casually explained | Myelin Games

[@MyelinGames]

Go to buyraycon.com/myelin and use code BIRTHDAY to get 20 to 40% off sitewide during Raycon’s Anniversary Sale! Brought to you by Raycon.

[@milliuhn]

happy birthday papa (It's not his birthday)

[@Osirish7]

As perfect as Vow of the Disciple was, I feel like Rhulk could have unintentionally become a huge story character who could have filled the role of Xivu a little better. Xivu just feels like a pouty child we never meet compared to a feared war general. Zavala in a bad mood is scarier than Xivu.

[@Real28]

Rhulk had turned out to be one of the most fleshed out, interesting and complex characters in the game in the shortest amount of lore. He's one of my fave characters in the game, good or evil.

[@Phantasmz]

Zavala is literally never scary imo. Especially after dying in my Red War campaign 😂.

[@Justin.501]

@@Phantasmzhe’s not saying Zavala is scary… I believe he’s insinuating that something that is NOT scary… is scarier than something that should be… even though it shouldn’t be

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

​@@Real28yeah Rhulk was really well done. had his own complete story, wasn't drip-fed to us one sentence every couple years or something tedious, you understand what he's about, he gives us a pretty good idea of how a disciple thinks and acts, and he hinted at greater mysteries with how he exploded into branches or roots or whatever when he died.

[@ganja9398]

That's the whole point of her character.

[@Real28]

Its always cool to rewatch The Witness cutscenes and now remember that its voice is the voice of an entire civilization

[@mronehundredd424]

For those who don't know or didn't notice, there's a secret voice line in the Imbaru engine where Savathûn says "The Sword logic is different for everyone. For me, it's about doing minuscule amounts of tomfoolery, until the whole universe has been trolled. Interesting, is it not?". Hope this helps better understand what the sword logic is Myelin! 🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@aq5426]

And this is why I love Savathun. :D

[@magetsalive5162]

Savathûn doing her best to escape by sticking in our minds through tomfoolery and questionable pranks.

[@Zantam70]

Rhulk mentions how the hive... disappointed him and the witness in Vow of the Disciple. This helps explain why the hive and witness have different versions of the final shape. My take is that the hive made their own version up from their own misconceptions, their own beliefs. Here are the voicelines from Rhulk: "Puppets, all of them. Every last krill. Every last Hive. I once believed in a higher calling as they do. But you know that. You rescued me from that that. Eternal appreciation doesn't even scratch the surface of what I owe you for the gifts you gave me. I know you hoped the Krill would see it too. We tried. We really did. But we had to let them struggle. All because of a belief that purpose had finally found them. Given them strenght to conquer an oppressive homeworld. How else were they to grow? Their loss, however, is for them to grieve, not us. We will continue forward. Greater purpose awaits, my witness."

[@TheZamaron]

In the end EVEYONE is merely a pawn for the Witness. I foubt anyone will survive if the WItness gets their way.

[@kyleespinoza7201]

I always thought that the Final Shape, through the lens of Sword Logic at least, was ironically short-sighted. The Hive have to test themselves and consume other life in order to survive until there's nothing left but them. My question was always; then what? Fail to continue feeding their Worms ever increasing hunger or testing themselves against, which would apparently be nothing anymore, and they get eaten alive. It's not sustainable, and it really feels like it'll all collapse as soon as they "win". Incredibly powerful philosophy, but with a built-in kill switch.

[@TheZamaron]

I think that's the point, the Hive would eventually die out to a more powerful enemy, or should they wipe out all life, burn themselves out, I assume a counter measure by the Witness so the Hive could never threaten it's grand plan should they go rogue.

[@jadenyuki2031]

The hive were basicaly a tool used by the Witness to wipe out civilizations so that the traveler would find no where to run to.

[@cyber8275]

That is literally the entire reason savathun wanted the light. We’re you not paying attention in witch queen?

[@kyleespinoza7201]

@@cyber8275 I dunno, did you not pay attention to how I said I always thought that? As in, since D1?

[@floopdoop3136]

Myelin this video is incredible!! I know you said KZbin doesn’t incentivize content like this but I just wanted to say I loved it and it’s exactly the type of videos that got me into Destiny lore in the first place (and kept me playing - looking at you bungie, support your creators!!)

[@pimpernel666]

I think watching someone track through all of what Bungie presented over the last decade in a format like this is extremely helpful! Thanks Myelin!

[@reamoinmcdonachadh9519]

7 pages!! That's a lot of words Myelin!!

[@ArtIsLifeninty]

The Witness out here trying to start NG+.

[@smgfisher6808]

great video love the new way u did this one the visual pics helps me out to learn better ty

[@FabioOsorio619]

Sword logic and Tithes are the perfect Pyramid Scheme.

[@endgamexpress]

Good video! I like the visual style, your videos with paint or other tools where you are explaining sequences with a visual aid are excellent, thank you.

[@kentsnyder8664]

Love your stuff man. The sword logic … what a concept. It’s hard to keep the picture clear.

[@McSpicyYT]

I love Destiny's lore because, even though the game is entirely presented as a wild epic of fiction, it's lore is thorough and nearly unfiction. It somehow makes everything (mostly) work in standard logic of reality. Normally fictional universes don't fill the gaps as much as Bungie does.

[@XboneMalone]

No more MS Paint? Truly the end of an era...😮‍💨

[@Audiotrocious]

There was a Lore tab where a Disciple asks why there are different interpretations, and why the Witness allows for the different versions to exist without clarification.

[@primelord5212]

I don't know but everytime i see videos on the final shape and sword logic I keep imagining The Nine treating the world like a sandbox and seeing what shapes they can make.

[@nickhimes5554]

Love the picture timeline! Great work Myelin keep it up!

[@joshyoung4960]

Great video, Myelin. Loved the visual format.

[@milliuhn]

I wanted it competitively explained dr strimmer

[@HelloMyNameIsZON3]

No enemy in destiny feels like a threat anymore, even the witness simply due to bungie letting us know there is more after the final shape and this season saying that the witness is our focus rather than xivu 😂. It's boring winning ALL the time...we need a big loss as the guardian to make any of this feel worth it, as of right now there is no question that we will come out on top of every single battle with ease...

[@Mjball79]

Such a fantastic review on Sword Logic!! Keep it going!!!

[@samslara]

The way I see the Witness' final shape up to this point is he wants all the memories of the universe frozen in place and for this to be the new universe itself, its new Final Shape. Memories here include things, events and people living or dead and their "souls". For all of this to live on forever in the Final Shape to never die. I see this corroborated in the final shape trailer with Cayde coming back into Destiny inside the Traveler. Cayde's memory, or soul, has been recorded within the Traveler and him, along with everyone else, has been in there in some form (guessing other people in there too). In the Final Shape vidoc the devs mentioned we'll be seeing our journey since Destiny 1 inside the Traveler. Also Stasis is a form of the Darkness that's heavily related to the Witness himself, with the Witness gifting us Stasis. And we see similar themes in pyramid architecture, living people and creatures frozen in place. We also know darkness is the framework of consciousness, or heavily tied to consciousness. The Witness also said he wants no more life, and no more death. It's also been shown that he wants to cut away the chaos of the universe, cut away the chaos of the Light and the Light represents the physical universe. The Light representing the physical universe is mentioned in a cutscene during the Lightfall campaign. Keeping everything frozen in place would stop life, death and chaos. So in trying to thread all these needles the Witness wants to freeze the universe in an everlasting Stasis crystal.

[@carpemkarzi]

Very cool. Nice conspiracy board. I remember those heady days of ‘what disease with my children bring home today’. Enjoy these days they go by so fast.

[@Nate-ny8lz]

One thing I cant figure out- If the witness is the entirety of the race- the hell is on all the ships of the fleet?

[@Omega-Ignition]

The hive reminds me of the first scene of the dark knight; it’s henchmen killing each other, clearing out the path for the true plan.

[@CouldnThinkOfUsername]

Absolutely loved this format

[@arthanor9631]

"Winning the game by turning it off." So Bungie made a game setting in which the core idea is that the arch-enemy wins when _you_ quit playing.

[@willbfriend7187]

Definitely like the format. Great video! AIAT!

[@rubotomy]

Basically the Witness’ idea of the Final Shape is flipping the table during a game of monopoly lol

[@BloodScorchedSun]

The Witness’ speech will never cease to creep me out.

[@Tercosi]

Loved the new style. Maybe you have already mentioned but I might have missed it. Have you checked Whisper of the Worm lore book? There are plenty of mentions to this season’s story imo. “Anthem, Anatheme” isn’t that Anthenaeum? There seems to be a link to Whisper of the Worm in current season. Aiat!

[@demonsorrows]

My theory has been that The Deep is where the powerful ascendant beings that once lived in the ascendant plain were trapped when the Traveler and Veil separated. The heirloom could be the piece of the Traveler/Veil that broke away holding both Traveler and Veil parts. The piece went about the universe and came close to the Psion homeworld during their evolution and affect them, made them more cognitively aware, psychic, attuned to the universe memory, which inspired OXA. The Witness is being used by the beings in the Deep. The Final Shape will be the "key', the shape needed to open the The Deep and allow ascendant beings to enter our universe. The next big baddies will be Ascendants.

[@lord_danet]

Great work with the change of the format! Felt a bit more engaging.

[@jonathanedwardgibson]

I adored your multi-hour reads of Hive origins.

[@jadestapf14]

The final shape is just the witness trying to turn off the simulation

[@yarukineez0]

Wow, the upgrade from Paint is actually really helpful! (But I loved the Paint drawings)

[@Darkside_1994]

They explained what the Final Shapw is in the reveal livestream. It’s basically the Witness turning the Universe into the ultimate Lego set. Everything has a perfect purpose and meaning, no chaos or chaos. Frozen, eternal, and perfected.

[@Obi_Wan_Shinobi_81]

I just love that Oryx basically used sword logic as an MLM scheme. “Thrall, Acololytes, Wizards, ALL of you! Go sell my essential oils! We’ll all become rich!”

[@MonsieurAuContraire]

Here's a really wacky, out there idea as a thought experiment... but what if the Witness' final shape is actually the direct opposite that of the Hive's. We presume that when it says "no more life, no more death" it's talking about the entirety of existence, right? Alternatively what if it just means for itself instead as if it dies then it doesn't have to witness the continual cycles of life and death any longer. I don't know if there's any lore around this, but the Witness looks pretty much immortal to me, more so than even the Hive gods. Also since the Traveler is all about life this odd notion then paints it that the Traveler wasn't trying to flee the Witness as much as it wasn't wanting to be the catalyst for it's death. This would need us to understand what's inside the Traveler, but maybe in this universe it's like the book of life where no thing can ever truly die including the Witness unless the Witness goes in and erases itself from it. Admittedly this all is too much of a stretch, but hopefully an interesting thought to ponder. To me the biggest flaw here is that the Witness would already likely be dead when we follow in after it which would be highly anti-climatic and hated by many of the community looking forward to fighting it in the raid.

[@CobraSnatch]

Great video. I think the Hive created their own "end game" (final shape) because they had to. They became aware of "the game" and if they wanted to be a contender for the winner then they had to have their own plan. They knew they weren't the strongest, because they were forever feeding their worm so, how could they be the strongest? They became aware, Oryx killed Akha, Savathun went to put her own plan into action. Brilliant move by Savathun to get out of the cycle through her death, but stay true to her logic/plan. The Gaurdians don't have a final shape. They don't want to play the game, they just want to exist. Of course, we have to play the game there is no other choice. Perhaps we win by killing all the other participants.

[@RoachofSol]

I get so happy when you upload

[@evangraham4607]

No paint? No flashbang? Where'd my Myelin go sadge

[@andersbylund2753]

Wow this has been my exact theory ever since we got the first cutscene of the witness

[@Z3R0291]

When Eris tricks us into joining her MLM pyramid scheme

[@TheZamaron]

We don't know exactly what the Witness's Final Shape is. But I'd have to agree with Immaru, I'd rather deal with the Hive's version, at least in their case life fights to survive. Int he case of the Witness it's now clear there was no great philosophy behind the Witness, it just wanted to form a link with the Traveler to enter the Pale Heart and I assume with both the power of Light and Darkness, it would then be able to shape to shape the universe to whatever it's end goal is, we know whatever that would be it would unfairly result in the loss of so much life, I assume no one would get much of a chance to fight back. At least wth the HIve you have a chance to survive if you're strong enough. It's now clear that the Disciples and the Hive were all just lied to by the Witness, mere expendable pawns to help it achieve the Final Shape. At least with the Sword Logic and what we originally thought of for the Darkness, it felt more natural, like just speeding up inevitable entropy of the universe.

[@Midnyte_Rage]

Videos like this need to be called Lore School.

[@Just_Q]

The Hive's final shape is the one left behind at the apex of life. The last one standing. But if you are the last one standing, where would you (a Hive) get tribute? Without tribute you will just die. And in doing so there is nothing left, just like how the Witness dictates their final shape. Nothing left, static, game over. In that way they are similar. But in the end the Hive are/were nothing but a pawn in the Witness' final shape.

[@cd1zzle08]

Oh this flowchart setup is excellent

[@S1RVicTOR]

Just put our 3yo in daycare for the first time, it feels like she’s been sick at least once a week since starting. It’s the worst. I feel you brother

[@BatM-l6j]

I have a better explanation why the final shape for the hive is not the same for the witness. The witness promised them what they wanted and lacked, the witness suffered pain(Existence) but the hive/krill's main suffering was weakness, they were at the bottom of the food chain, so the witness promised them the top of the pyramid. Nezarec's goal was suffering itself, literally the opposite of the witness, he wanted everything to suffer under him, so most likely his image of the final shape was different. Different endings to unit multiple races under one flag, and in the end, it doesn't even matter... only the witness's version will happen.

[@boswelloraptor]

I really love that thumbnail

[@Neon_Detective]

More Pictionary lore like this plz

[@jasonhernandez730]

The final shape of the Witness is just him being on top of it all and also being able to shape into his reality everything back together taking pieces of puzzle and shutting them down like the vault. A bit of fourth wall break there if you all have followed along Bungie’s vidoc vid or the showcase as they called it put all of it into perspective. Also saying we back to feeling small in the universe something funny could be up. If my speculation is correct once we defeat the Witness and the something funny Bungie will probably pull out of left field is delete certain things from the Destiny universe in order for it to go back to being our final shape, because we are Destiny.

[@emmacjw]

The weakness of the "survival of the fittest" is that it predicates on the most powerful violence in the Universe. The lore leans into the witness's version is of absolute control. It uses hive and other species to achieve that end. The combining of the veil and traveller is the specific mechanism. The light and dark Saga is the chess game between the two controllers of the game. The hive are just part of the pyramid scheme as done by the witness 😅😂

[@crrainger]

You're so funny. Love your vids dude

[@divispi]

So the explanation in this made me realize the Hive is just one massive pyramid scheme...

[@Matthijsinf]

Wasn’t it explained in Witch Queen that the Witness tempted the Krill (Proto-Hive) to the Deep because the Witness assumed Traveler wanted to give them the Light.

[@mrgarcis]

Parenthood is hard. My son was in the hospital on a weekly basis his first year in daycare

[@jme681000]

Great method, know this, some of us Just want to hear you preach the lore.

[@danielmunroe1423]

I came for the lore and the epic beard. Peace.

[@7472wayne]

Great video as always.

[@SharkBGames]

It was great way to explain everything 👌🏻🔥

[@kyogooch7315]

Lot of lore guys out there you are my preference "MYELINDOFF" AIAT

[@bowhuntr6825]

Well done Sir, well done.

[@Nexii801]

"Dodgy salesman telling you whatnthe problem is, then selling you the solution." Is there any other way to start a religion?

[@kristophershephard7359]

I need a power chart. How powerful was Eris the Hive vs Rhulk/Nezerec/Witness/Sukuna lol just playing about the last one. Also does imbaru engine juice go straight to Savathun?

[@sirlagsalot1050]

unrelated thought: but if the darkness is consciousness and all of humanity are conscious creatures, does that mean everyone in destiny is technically paracausal? Even if it's on such a small scale of what goes on inside our own heads. Doesn't this mean that the Vex technically can't perfectly predict an ordinary human? - and by human, I mean every creature of human like consciousness

[@kalemregier]

Thanks Matt!!

[@Saujion]

But that 7 page draft you dismissed, could we get a copy?

[@matthewgumm]

the final shape. pe-e-eace.

[@ScarletSilverIron]

If anyone who has every read the Gamer webtoon sword logic is the gamer power but evil.

[@battlerifle9276]

I kinda wonder with all the immense power the witness has, why even go through the trouble of the bargain with the worms and the Creation of the hive?

[@TheZamaron]

I'm guessing to have a vanguard force. THe Witness and Desciples can't do everything. Byt the Hive going out conquering it works to strengthen them to face any enemy, simply the Hive are a plague on the galaxy, sweeping across it snuffing out as much potential resistance to the WItness they can, believing they serve a great purpose.

[@mathewserrano2262]

The witness cannot be everywhere at once and if he didn’t create them, then the traveler was going to give them a golden age and they would’ve been on the side of the light

[@battlerifle9276]

@@mathewserrano2262 true that I see what you saying.

[@RetroWaveDave]

Like the format

[@kmhowells2]

Sorry about your kiddo, going through the same thing here with our twins. Do we think it’s possible that Savathun knew of the Witness’ deception from the beginning. The WQ campaign doesn’t indicate that, but she is the god of cunning. Is it possible Savvy has been playing the ultimate long game against the Witness waiting to find someone strong enough to beat the Witness ?

[@L0rdUch1ha]

The final shape

[@KingShmoney]

The Final Shape

[@beeslikesteve]

I understood all of this.

[@absolsama]

Uuuuh can you brake dat down for dummis dr strimmur?

[@wick3dheathen]

final strand

[@bronzeedge8307]

That's why Bungie has been getting DDOSed, it's the Witness.

[@MyShadowSoul]

t h e f i n a l s h a p e

[@east2westfan]

Sword Logic

[@archcrusader107]

The Final Shape, eh?

[@pahaninYT]

I hate the proto worm stuff so much. So the proto worms were created by the Witness, but also Subjugated by Rhulk? Where does Xita fit into the mix, was she a proto worm? Was she created by the Witness? Did the witness just “forget” about the worm gods? I’ll never understand why they even greenlit the proto worm bs. It makes no sense

[@Jack-tg9qm]

I don’t think the Witness created the protoworms. It seems it found them on Fundament and Rhulk was sent to conquer them. After which they became actual worms at the Witness’ behest.

[@Andersonairchris]

No more flash bangs 😢

[@LastNameInTown]

I LIKE THIS FORMAT! TFS...✌

[@redactedredacted8107]

Moar conspiracy boards plz

[@gunmaster260]

Nice video. Now explain Bomb Logic.

[@SethKaufman]

Needs more MS Paint

[@les777pl]

How did Ahsa escape?

[@thedogpresident6782]

best diagram

[@navidhdg]

yeah this new format is better but paint hits different...

[@timthepanda]

so.. sword logic is a pyramid scheme?

[@quietisonline]

hi again (from work break lol)

[@Pj32Sr]

Dad days 🫶💪🤪

[@Yeahthatguy617]

To me Destiny 2’s story over the years felt like Bungie forgot what the main narrative and they’re just writing just to be writing and it seems the story so far wasn’t even fleshed out and it feels rushed. The main bad guy is weird, the enemies are even more weird now. But that’s just my opinion. Tell me if I’m leaving anything out or tell me I’m wrong.

[@Jack-tg9qm]

I dunno. It feels like Bungie has had this planned out for quite some time. I reread the Books of Sorrow recently and it’s amazing how telegraphed a lot of the “final shape” rhetoric is because of what we know now. At the very least, I feel like the narrative has been set since at least the beginning of Destiny 2, if the final cutscene from the Red War campaign is anything to go by.

[@Yeahthatguy617]

@@Jack-tg9qm yeah, I guess to me it just feels out of place.

[@McSpicyYT]

This may sound odd, but the Witness's version of the final shape as described at 19:26 is something that I can agree with. Logically, if there is no life, there is no suffering. No happiness or thriving, but also not the ability or need for such things in the first place.

[@crawdad]

But the fallacy in that logic is he same as taking your ball and going home. It’s tantrum throwing. “If I can’t find eternal happiness or purpose then it should all burn”. No one is supposed to be happy forever and true freedom comes from finding your own purpose. It doesn’t mean you can’t get help or be assisted in finding that purpose, but it has to be a purpose you believe in, not one you’ve been given. And that purpose doesn’t need to require delivering suffering in the name of ending it. Ending all life isn’t a purpose, it’s a child’s way out.

[@McSpicyYT]

@@crawdad Ending happiness does end suffering. In the literal sense of ending existence. You take a sine wave of conflict, and collapse it down to a null line. It truly is the only way to beat the game _in truth._ But I think it's fine that others choose to play it and experience the ups and downs of it.

[@crawdad]

@@McSpicyYT Riiiiiight but it’s the same kind of truth as blocking out the sun to prevent skin cancer. Sure it’ll work or even just help, but it’s the worst possible way of solving it. Or getting rid of all water so no one drowns in the ocean again. And then writing it off like, “well personally I don’t like drowning and that’s a solution I get, but I’m ok with people having the freedom to drink or drown as they please”. It’s all Sort of already implied that it’s a technically workable solution but it’s a selfish shortsighted one.

[@seraphik_]

You the best