4K Gamer Pro & mClassic HDMI Upscalers - Useful or Useless? :: RGB325 / MY LIFE IN GAMING

[@SkulShurtugalTCG]

Gaming was unbearable. It was impossible to enjoy games just because of how bad they looked. The greatest video games of all time made me feel sick, and watching The Game Awards nearly put me in the hospital. But then I got a magical new device: the mClassic! The mClassic is like a spiritual experience! It turns even the worst games into rays of sunshine. The mClassic saved my life, and it can save yours too!

[@ggali09]

Mclassic works pretty good, got it on sale for $60.

[@tsol9097]

Bill Clinton?

[@kozaihod]

Read this with the voice of Joe Redifer in my mind

[@immortallix]

Tbf the game awards will put you in the hospital no matter what you have

[@MikeChimeri]

@@kozaihod I thought Joe was killed by the mClassic's "better graphic (sic)." 😉 UPDATE: No, I misremembered. It was Galaxy Force's graphics that killed him.

[@killerkevin27]

I'm actually impressed with the mClassic and wouldn't mind having one for my PS3 and Switch but I'm not $80 impressed. I'd probably get one if it was like $40.

[@WednesdayMan]

I think the Sagemcom UP200 cord might be a better choice as it is cheaper than the mclassic and is similar to it (I've seen comparison videos, and its smoothing functionality is similar to an mclassic)

[@conangoinham]

this comment nails it. the cost to upscale or present image sharpening in a '1 button' quick fix isn't worth $100. I really appreciated the commentary on the video where he went into comps for built-in image sharpening on his TV versus the sharpening from these devices. Truthfully, a lot of what we're trying to achieve as gamers is already BUILT IN to the output display. While it might take several more minutes to achieve than just a plug and play adapter, I'd rather keep my hard earned bux :)

[@seanmcbay]

Nice to see someone that actually knows what they’re talking about finally talking about these things.

[@leeartlee915]

Yeah. It’s interesting that people I trust on KZbin (like MJR) acted like these were “GAME CHANGERS”.

[@maegnificant]

@@leeartlee915 the m-cable is pretty nice if you wanna run your switch off of a 1440p monitor.

[@leeartlee915]

@@maegnificant Hmmm, seems kind of a limited application. Especially given the products claims. I use it for 480p devices (e.g. Gamecube). Does make those games look better… slightly (imo).

[@maegnificant]

@@leeartlee915 i am just saying that's what I use it for and it works pretty well. Looks better than native for sure. Wish they would not touch the colors and stuff though.

[@maegnificant]

@@leeartlee915 many claims they make in their marketing are either questionable or plain wrong. They also claim setting the switch to 720p and then upscale via mcable would look better for 1440p but that's not the case at all.

[@BRKsEDU]

I also recently got an mClassic and the best use so far has been with Dreamcast and GameCube… but the Retrotink 5X 480 signal won’t work with the mClassic for me, only at 540p. Also, God of War Collection at 720p gave me good results. But the mClassic worsens colors, especially bright and shadowy areas.

[@seanmcbay]

You can see it here in the comparisons. It dulls colors.

[@S4D1DREAM]

​@@seanmcbay these comparisons don't do it justice, the output can be 1440p a large number of 4k tvs support 1440p via turning on deep color input. It's on mclassics KZbin channel. Kinda bummed that this wasn't taken as seriously as it should.

[@thesteammachine1282]

Does the mclassic crushes the blacks on gamecube ?

[@dethskullcrusher]

​@@thesteammachine1282Yes it changes the gamma setting one tone down, so you should compensate that by going up a notch on your tv or monitor.

[@joaoflpe]

tu aqui edu kkkkkkkkk doidera que ngm ainda descobriu, msm 5 meses dps kkkkkkkkk

[@FlyBird]

I'm so happy there is an in-depth video on these devices, especially the mClassic. I like my mClassic a lot because what Try speaks on here, but I'm obviously I'm a lot more positive about it lol. No embellishments or exaggerations from me, but I'm a fan of how the mClassic processes the image. To my eyes, it sharpens the image to a pleasant, if slight, degree. 1080p native games look best, but games running lower than that also benefit to my liking. (It's good to get confirmation that we should just leave the Switch on 1080p) I do agree it shouldn't be $80-$100. For half the price, it think it would be of great value.

[@skyen85]

The MClassic is a great product if used in the right way. At the moment the best usage is with content in 720p60fps (best) or 480p. Marseille need to update its processor to handle upscale to higher resolutions (4k) and newer tech (hdr). They say the product is for 1440p, to me that is misleading.

[@JMLRetroRoom]

It goes up to 1440p if your display supports the resolution and will do 4K only for Blue-Ray 1080p/24fps.

[@cobym]

I use the Mclassic on a 1440p monitor with 720p and 480p signals, and I like the results. I also use the Mclassic with my PS4 to bring the 1080p signal up to 1440p, but I don't necessarily notice any benefits other than matching the display resolution. Thanks for the video! Happy to have an honest breakdown of these devices

[@lyteedge]

This is also why I originally purchased an mClassic and using it with Switch games on a 1440P monitor produced a fantastic image. I've since switched to a 4K OLED TV and while it's not as sharp as it was at 1440P, I still find the mClassic makes a number of Switch games look better. YMMV.

[@braddl9442]

That is one of the main use cases for these. I also use them with my Xbox 360 and PS3 for that.

[@pokepress]

I have a streaming device that only accepts 720p and 1080p, so the mClassic is actually pretty useful for 480p systems.

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

There may be other ways, I have a box that alters output resolution for capture cards but not to the TV. (Usually I use it to keep 4k60HDR working on the TV, without touching a 1080p capture card that's plugged in at the same time.) But whatever works of course, and this might be seen as a value-add for what it does as well.

[@RetroBacon1]

Lol just buy a new streaming device

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

@@RetroBacon1 some streaming devices still won't capture things like HDR or the top framerate, so a splitter with a downgrading conversion and a bypass could be best (since an HDMI signal normally conforms to the lowest specifications detected for compatibility, so normal HDMI splitters will just use the worse quality on both). Besides, he was talking about how his streaming device doesn't accept older, lower quality inputs anymore. Not higher.

[@RetroBacon1]

@@rockstopsthetraffic oooohh that makes more sense.

[@jerryborjon]

I love the mClassic specifically because of how much I play GameCube games. It does magic with games of that era!

[@RottenMuLoT]

The cool thing about the mClassic is that I just put it somewhere in my tool chain after my HDMI switch. So every consoles that I run it through can benefit of it, or not, as I decide to activate it. It becomes handy on PS3 at 720p but also, I really think the mClassic does a phenomenal job at 480p for games on Wii, Gamecube and PS2 era consoles. I said it numerous times, but MK8 on Wii U with the mClassic straight up looks like MK8 Deluxe on Switch at 1080p. He doesn't stress it enough but 480i is passthrough only, without any benefit. So you really must use a "progressive" resolution on those old consoles. The mClassic shines for games and consoles native to 480p and 720p resolutions. At 1080p it is a complete waste of time and money and since 240p is usually for old consoles with pristine pixel art, you definitely don't want to butcher your pixel perfect with a 4 and a half upscaled image at 1080p. Nope.

[@Phantron]

240p isnt even compatible with the mClassic... and 1080p DOES get an increase with antialising and texture shaprening with it still.

[@RottenMuLoT]

@@Phantron you are right. I use a line doubler retrotink device for 240p. So I'm talking about a 480p upscaled to 1080p from a source 240p. You are also right about 1080p except that, as shown multiple times in this video, the difference is negligible at best.

[@DrLilo]

I'm in the "mClassic for 480p" camp. WiiDual/GCVideo into mClassic has proven a good combination for me. At least until we finally get scalers with HDMI inputs, Mike Chi's filters will make it obsolete for sure.

[@Phantron]

Mike Chi's filters? whats that

[@DrLilo]

@@Phantron retrotink's post processing effects and scaline filters.

[@DrLilo]

@@joseph011296 that's fine and I've tried a similar approach with good results, but something about introducing an anlogue conversion into an all digital video chain doesn't sit well with me.

[@Samos900]

This

[@brandontalbort]

@@joseph011296 I hear that's a good solution, for sure, but isn't there still a bit of an issue with games that have any (or frequent) resolution switching? I think the RE Remake on Ganecube was one example. It was a while ago, now, but there was a reason I held off of the carby + PORTTA route when I was looking.

[@ebnflo]

I primarily use the mclassic for 480p and it's amazing. I see the biggest changes in quality going from 480i to 480p to 480p+mclassic on the Pikman 2 titlescreen. Also, I guess mclassic people are hardcore online cause MLiG really straddle the line between being in hostage situation and kind of patronizing when talking about it lol

[@rather8948]

Such a underrated channel you guys make such great content keep it up

[@BigJoker]

I just got a 4k TV and I've been eyeing the mclassic despite hearing bad things in the past. This video came at a perfect time for me.

[@FireMrshlBill]

My TV accepts the 1440p signal and used it with my Switch until recently when I got a new Switch and discovered the mClassic is what was messing up the auto-switching features. So i ended up taking it off of that Switch since my kids mostly use that now and I am tired of them misplacing the HDMI switch remote. I can't put it on the output of the HDMI switch since it shares it with my Series X and don't want to have to manually switch it on/off and don't want to lose VRR, etc. from the Xbox, and both need to be on that hdmi switch going to my soundbar for Atmos (xbox) and Nitendo's stupidity in not just using Dolby for surround (my tv just passes through stereo PCM). Some HDMI switches don't place nice with it, either between console and switch, or on output of switch going to the tv. I still use one on the Switch dock on my 1440p monitor and on the PS3 connected to my 4k tv. tl;dr: YMMV definitely applies to the mClassic based on your setup, your TV, console being used, etc.

[@bowi1332]

That RetroTink CRT effect is so cool. (26:50) The RetroTink 5X-Pro seems such a great device. I'm eager to see PixelFX's scaler.

[@strzxgvnuvwvfld3597]

I was never a fan of CRT effects, but the retrotink 5x is starting to convert me: I especially like it with PS2 480i content.

[@Kage5868]

It does, one of the better ones i seen definitely

[@SuperDerek]

Thanks Try! This has really helped assuage my concerns about not buying an Mcable or similar offering. The benefits are so subtle I honestly can't tell when they're turned on or not, and the detriments of that sharpening are so glaring that... yeah, it's just not worth the risk. So often I watch these videos finding something new to buy, thanks for _saving_ me some cash for once! ;)

[@shredbraahh8606]

I have an MClassic and honestly with 480p and 720p content, it really does improve the picture. Aliasing is much less obvious. My favorite consoles to use it with are the Gamecube and PS3.

[@mrbungle589]

It works the best with the 360 imo👍

[@MagisterHamid]

I wish you tested the mClassic much more on the Vita TV. I’m especially curious to see how it will perform on the PSP games being run on Vita TV. Can you please make a video on that??

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] I don't think it would work quite like you'd hope since the output resolution won't match. But I like the Sharpscale soft mod for PSTV, especially for PSP games. We have a video on that too.

[@MagisterHamid]

@@mylifeingaming fair point. Ok here’s an idea for a future episode. “What’s the best way to play handheld games on your TV/monitor”. Nowadays we have several options to play them. For instance GB, GBA, GG, Lynx etc on MiSTer, Analogue pocket deck, Vita TV, consolized versions of various handhelds. Also you should address the input lag on PSP games being emulated on Vita TV. This has been an issue and there is a thread on this matter on Shmups.

[@Spaghettaboutit]

Probably the best thing you can do for the Vita TV is to use Sharpscaling and then plug it into the RetroTink 5X to custom zoom and crop the video signal using the interpolation of the 5X.

[@perpetualcollapse]

Putting everything aside for this video. MLIG deserves full attention.

[@RyanBeardy]

I've used the mClassic in conjunction with my Frameister and the marketing on Marseille's end definitely over sells it's usefulness. I think it works best with Gamecube, Playstation 2, Original Xbox, Dreamcast, and N64 3D titles when the smoothing effect is the most noticeable and welcome. I can notice an upgrade when used with my Nintendo Switch but it's so marginal I can't recommend it for that alone. It has it's uses, but those uses are only for the most enthusiastic gamers with extra money to spend.

[@WednesdayMan]

honestly I use the mclassic a lot, I see benefit in its SMAA like approach to smoothing edges and I like its upscaling fuctionality, it is a massive improvement to my emulation setup and I use magpie FSR for games that run below 480p. honestly for 1080p without anti aliasing it is a meaningful improvement. I just dislike seeing jagged edges.

[@samza9622]

Nice job on the sharpness tests you did. Overall nice job with the review.

[@Sebastian-xy3xk]

I loved this video, like a lot of other people here I have been debating on whether or not I should get this accessory. I guess in the end what a lot of us just want is a nearest neighbor scaler for really any resolution content. It seems to me like a simpler concept that I hope get's implemented more readily in TVs and other accessories (other than the RT5X, OSSC, etc.) in the future.

[@jacksonsardello3959]

I busted out laughing at that intro. Keep up the good work guys. I love the RGB series!

[@GameCubeGalaxy]

Fantastic coverage for both devices. I have the mClassic paired with my EON GCHD for the GameCube, and noticed a fairly nice difference in my captured footage. All the game footage appears to come out a tad cleaner and sharper. You now have me curious to play around with the sharpness settings on my LG OLED! Excellent episode as always!

[@AstralFrost]

I have 3 mClassics for different setups. I think the improvements vary between games and I can see why a lot of people would not want to spend the money for a mild-moderate benefit. Of course, what I really want is a RetroTINK 5x Pro or 4K when that one releases. I would trade my 3 mClassics for one RetroTINK 5x Pro now that I've looked into it more.

[@CronusTheGreat]

mind clarifying why and if you would use the 5x Pro over both the mclassic and photofast combined

[@samza9622]

@Astral you can daisy chain all 3 for extra goodness. You should try it and report back.

[@SydneySE_]

I love that my favorite youtube channel covered this. Fantastic video as always. I personally do really like the results with the mClassic + 4K Gamer Pro paired together but for me its only a temporary solution until Mikes new 4k scaler comes to market. I think with Switch games and some PS3 games the results are quiet dramatic but to each their own. Loved the video though, you guys are a huge inspiration for me and my channel so thank you for all you do.

[@MFHRaptor]

What's "Mike's 4K Scaler"? I am unaware of this product. Can you suggest or link to info on it?

[@jc.1191]

Less upscaling does have better results, 240p and some 480 to 4k is just too much.

[@rocraider163]

⁠@@MFHRaptor”Mikes 4k scaler” is the retrotink 4k.

[@HunterPBrown]

I love my mclassic. That's all I need.

[@BugLondon]

I use an mCLassic with an LG Oled because it doesn't handle 480p well at all. When i check the signal it does say it's getting 1440p.

[@SolidSonicTH]

I was looking at something like this to pair with my AR glasses because they freak out if they're fed a signal below 1080p.

[@AyeYoYoYooo]

While this may make some 240p pixel heads vomit … I genuinely love what a combination of the RetroTink2x Pro outputting line doubled 240p into SMOOTHED 480p, then Mcable gaming takes that 480p to 1080p with re-sharpening and contest enhancements, all combined in under 1ms … genuinely love what this does to Capcom fighting game sprites from 1994-2002 Saturn and Dreamcast and PS2 2d stuff with RGB & S-Video cables have never looked better than this processing combo. It’s literally BETTER than the PS3 smoother on the spectacular iron galaxy ports of Capcom’s best all time fighting games : Street Fighter III : Third Strike Marvel vs Capcom Origins - MVC1 & MSH Marvel vs Capcom 2 Darkstalkers Resurrection. I might be one of the godless heathens who takes the 4K gamer pro and adds it to the end of my chain to sharpen the smoothed 240p->480p->1080p image even more now lol …. So long as 4K gamer pro lag is under 1ms … AKA “faster than the onboard HDTV 1080p->4K does it”

[@skins4thewin]

Honestly, I feel like the world really just needs to know about the actual GOOD scalers like the OSSC & RetroTINK devices, but so far it seems FAR too many ppl still don't even know they exist! I would REALLY love to see Mike Chi release a cheaper, stripped down, budget friendly version of his RetroTINK 5x once he releases upcoming 4K version. Gamers CLEARLY are clamoring for cheaper options that give real results, since they are clearly flocking to devices such as the ones reviewed here. His Tink 2x aka 480p based devices are nice & all, but being limited to a max output of 480p isn't ideal considering it's still a bit of a problem resolution for most flat panels. We need to get that resolution up to at least 720p to really see the results we want on a modern flat panel. Having something affordable within the $100-150 dollar range that can easily and properly upscale up to 720p-1080p along with a small handful of the most basic features of the 5X would be a GODSEND for gaming!! Hell if it was in a small form factor then I'd buy one just to carry around with me when I go on travel or to friends houses! If anyone can figure out a way to make a device like that happen, it's Mike Chi! Gaming NEEDS such a device, even more than it needs a proper 4K upscaler imo! Still can't wait for his 4K upscaler tho, it's going to be great!

[@roteca]

I happen to have a LG C1 55 oled myself, and also the 4K Gamer Pro as it sounded like an interesting product to try out so funded their indigogo. Wasn't expecting any miracles, but interesting to try. Also happens to have a mClassic, or well 3 for some reason, impulse bought during a local store sale. Got it because I've heard alot of good about it together with eon/carby on GCN and planning on buying one next year to mod. My console collection is very modest, but I like tinkering with settings, both on consoles, TV, AVR (for sound mostly), and see what can be done. Your videos have been both great help and an inspiration to watch. After this episodes I played around some with settings and the mClassic and 4k Gamer Pro and I actually kind of like what it's doing on the games/consoles I've tried it so far. My signal change is HDMI switcher with mClassic (green mode) in the output into my AVR into 4K Gamer Pro (low setting) into my C1 OLED, tv sharpness set to 30. Currently playing through Twilight Princess HD on Wii U and it looks amazing. Tested some PS3 (set to720p) games and liked the results, on the Switch its really really minimal difference, and really different results from game to game. Since I had more than one mClassic I put one on my HDMI modded Dreamcast in the blue mode and HDMI output to 480p, and did the same with my HDMI modded Nintendo 64. And I somewhat like the results of both the DC and N64 with dual mClassic and 4K Gamer Pro on my C1, was never really satisfied with how the looked on the C1 compared to my old Sony 1080P tv. Gonna have it like this for a while and see how I like it after bit more playing. Once again, your chanel is really a great inspiration and source of facts and interesting ideas. So far I really like it on the Wii U and on the PS3, and most noticeable there in a good way.

[@WMARUoriginal]

I was expecting to return the mClassic, but it worked very well for the PS3 games I owned and also select Wii/Gamecube games. It really made the PS3 get closer to Xbox 360 to my eyes.

[@BOXING_LOUNGE]

I use mclassic + 4k Gamer Pro on ps3, it looks awesome. Worth a look 👀

[@seppomuppit]

You seem to spend most time analysing switch games which look absolutely fine as is, instead of focussing on 480i/p and older 720p 360 and ps3 titles, which is where mClassic shines.

[@gamertoon8230]

4:41 Nice to see Kaze and The Wild Masks in the video footage, I love that game.

[@Thrashman138]

I've been using my mClassic since it was first released. I got it for around $70, and while I am a fan of the crisper look it gives my Switch at 1440p on my PC monitor and 1080p on my 4K TV, I agree that it's still too pricey for what it is. I'll never go back to a native Switch signal on my TV, though. The benefits are that good to me.

[@FireMrshlBill]

Ya, I got the 2 pack when they were cheaper during the crowdfunding. I liked it on my Switch for 1440p on my 4k (it does output 1440p), but after getting my new hdmi switch and tired of my kids misplacing the remote for it (and the previous hdmi switch’s remote) I figured out that the mClassic is what was preventing the auto-switching of inputs from working. So now I am back to native Switch. I still use it for the Switch dock on my 1440p monitor and the ps3 on my 4k tv. It does introduce some crushing but oh well. Originally got it for the WiiU for 480p Wii games, and use it for that from time to time.

[@dimmufan88]

I always use my mclassic on the switch its nice aliasing and colors really make the image pop!

[@deftoned2]

I had to go through 2 months of customer service, purchasing 2 separate mClassics, and purchasing 3 different HDMI repeaters to get the mClassic working with my Samsung 4K TV. According to Marseille, mClassics have trouble with Samsung TVs. Only a specific repeater worked and had to be placed in a specific position in the chain. For very marginal improvements. Not worth the money, time, or effort. Best improvements I saw were with a GameCube, Carby, and mClassic. But it was minimal. Tried the mClassic with a RT2X and RT2XM and saw little improvement. Slightly brighter colors, but made the image blurrier. Using it with the PS3, 360, WiiU, and Switch saw little to no improvement. I was better off just using standard 1080p with those consoles. Let me just say this… I received an e-mail from Marseille in regards to a service ticket I submitted. That ticket was from 2019. Great customer service.

[@kyle52905]

Ive been seeing so many people over the years claim the mclassic is the best way to play switch and older consoles and I'm glad you guys made a video actually looking at the differences. I completely understand why some people like it for 480p but the smudging and color differences kinda ruins it for me and honestly even then the difference is mostly negligible across the board to my eyes at least. I don't knock anyone for liking it but its definitely more of a personal preference kinda like PS1 smoothing on PS3. I'm just glad theres at least one channel not hyping this thing up like its a mini framemeister or something.

[@kdkseven]

I bought the M-Classic out of curiosity mostly, but also hoping it would smooth out the jaggies on the Switch, and i just thought it blurred the image and washed out the colors. I was much happier with the image as is. Waste of 100 bucks- but i knew that was a possibility going in.

[@BLOODY__FATALITY]

I use the mClassic regularly with my retrotink 5x for a bit of a cleaner image on my 4K monitor. It is especially useful with my Nintendo Switch. My Switch had a pixely look on my new 4K monitor but the mClassic takes it up to 1440p which allows it to accept the signal much better giving me a much cleaner image.

[@vitorf2303]

I have the same problem when using my Switch with my LG Ultragear monitor, it looks blurry, the monitor sharpness setting doesnt add an upscalling, however, when i plug the Switch on my LG Nanocell, it looks beautiful, the sharpness setting there is magic

[@sstevee000]

Great video! I've seen so much hype for both devices (especially the mClassic) floating around that can be very misleading so its great to have an in depth look showing what each device ACTUALLY does, rather than what both companies claim they do. In my personal experience, I actually have found a good use purpose for the mClassic. My TCL 4K TV does not have a setting to force a 4:3 aspect ratio (despite being able to accept composite via an adapter), which is a sad trend to see on newer displays. Before I upgraded to the Retrotink 5x Pro, I was using the mClassic as a way to force 4:3 for any content I was running through it (NES, SNES, N64, Wii). While the downside of that meant I had to use it for anything to get 4:3, i can see that being useful for a setup where forcing 4:3 isn't possible. The mClassic really doesn't look very good with 240p content, but with 480p content it does a good job with smoothing out the image ever so slightly. Nowadays, I only use it with my HDMI consoles (Wii U, Xbox One) and my GameCube with the Carby HDMI adapter. I'd say I see the most benefit from native 1080p content like the video says, with native 720p and 480p content also possibly benefitting depending on the use case. Honestly, I'd say overall I'm happy to have it for the cases where it does provide a slight benefit, but if I were to do it over again, I don't think I would go out of my way to buy/use one since the difference is not enough to justify its $80-$100 price tag. As a side note, I have actually found a way to use the mClassic's 1440p upscaling with my 4KTV: I bought a cheap edid spoofer adapter on Amazon for about $20 and it works great. Getting that 1080p to 1440p upscaling has also been a nice, if inessential, use case for the mClassic as well. The one side effect is that, with the way I have my audio and video setup, I can't get my 4K Blu Ray player to play audio without unplugging it which is a little annoying but it's easy enough to unplug it and plug it back in when needed.

[@ajsingh4545]

Mclassic works the best when you lower the sharpness on your TV and calibrate the TV settings a bit like color, black levels and contrast.

[@vdubrida70]

You should have your modern TV with Zero sharpening anyways because any sharpening setting is adding artificial sharpening on the image

[@ajsingh4545]

@@vdubrida70 I have mines set to 30% sharpness ... It's a decent middle ground for me

[@WH250398]

@@vdubrida70 Depends on the tv.

[@tiprun]

Love that little ending teaser video! 😂

[@Darklordsid]

Fantastic cover!! And about time!! Missed the channel

[@supernes235]

We all have different opinions and results which are all valid. I prefer to use the Mclassic/4k gamer pro combination with a pound cable for my ps1 as opposed to the RGb Scart retrotink 5x option. Yes the Retrotink 5x is amazing and I use it for consoles with Component or scart. Maybe it's my TV? But the Mclassic/4k really shines for PS3 and PSTV as well as switch for me. Now even at the highest level I'm not getting the Halo effect you are. I have a Sony 900h and absolutely loving the obvious difference these 2 devices are making. I mean I've even reverted to PSTV version of Trails of Cold Steel 2 from the PS4 version. I've also used Mclassic/4kGP with the Retrotink 5x for PS2 ,OGXB, SFC, Genesis, Neo Geo MVS and PC Engine with the Super SD System and never looked back. I mean I haven't really noticed that I'm using 3 devices for these older consoles. The only console that doesn't really benefit that much is PS2 and I do have the retrovision component, I'll get spammed but let's face it, the PS2 never really gave out that good a quality image.

[@Kaos1989]

After doing some online research for LG oleds sharpness should be at 10 where it applies anti-aliasing without a sharpening filter. Past 10 a sharpening filter is applied. Most people recommend set sharpening to 10 to get anti-aliasing full effect without the sharpening filter. The more you know!

[@DaveSimonH]

The M-Cable, especially on 480p content, reminds me of the look of early Universal blu-rays (not in a good way). They were using dated film masters, so filtered the absolute crap out of them (heavy DNR, sharpening etc), leaving grain & detail behind, resulting in a smearly sharpened look. Thankfully after a few years, catalogue titles were regularly getting new 2K or 4K masters, so many of those early discs got re-released by Universal themselves (films like 'Apollo 13' & 'Spartacus') or licenced out to third parties like Arrow Video (stuff like 'The Thing', 'An American Werwolf in London', 'Videodrome', 'Weird Science' etc).

[@dannylashofficial1669]

Your humour is spot on in this episode, Try, really enjoyed that. Keep em coming MLIG 👍

[@captainthunderbolt7541]

The 4k Gamer Pro works a lot more nicely than my TV's own upscaling. I gotta say though, I'm a little bit jealous of how well your C1 enhances sub-native sources.

[@captainthunderbolt7541]

I found that the 4k Gamer Pro worked horribly with Xenoblade 3 - I think it's the FSR that is to blame.

[@NichePlays]

I usually use my mClassic to force 4:3 out of my Super Retro Trio but I recently found it fairly helpful in adding some much needed anti-aliasing onto the new Pokemon games. It doesn't entirely get rid of the aliasing, but it really helps make the game look more presentable on my 1440p monitor.

[@HedgehogY2K]

18:20 wait WHAAAAT?! I DON'T BELIEVE IN THIS. There's no way they did this, I can't find any option to change scaling options in OBS 27.2.#. I could only find DOWNSCALING options between Area, Bicubic, and Nvenc Spline 36. What are you talking about? Somebody G@D@MN tell me! Point and Area are the best options... At least I already captured my Xbox 360 stuff with it's 1080p upscaling before OBS could do anything to it. Halo Reach upscaled to 1080p+mClassic works like a charm for the HD60 Pro.

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] Make your canvas and output resolution 4K or whatever you want. Then right-click your capture device in the scene and go to filters. Add a scaling filter, set the resolution the same as the canvas, and set filtering to "point".

[@babydinoproduction]

Watching this on my lunch break. Love it when we get a new in depth mlig video!

[@TheAce100Ace200]

Why is everyone telling the mClassic can't output 1440P? This really blows my mind. It's as simple as connecting it to a compatible TV. I play PS3 and Switch in 1440p for years now.

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] It certainly doesn't work on all TVs that can handle 1440p. My understanding is that usually it only does 1440p if it's a 1440p monitor, but otherwise it does 1080p if it detects a screen is 4K. I suppose some screens must send a signal that lets it know 1440p is OK but if you don't have that, then it doesn't do it.

[@ggali09]

Man that 4K pro has been sittting in my Amazon cart for weeks. Can’t wait to hear what you think

[@jimmyhopkins1]

Waste of time emulate if you want higher resolution imo

[@ggali09]

@@jimmyhopkins1 go away

[@AgentXRifle]

But he’s actually right… Why buy a $100+ HDMI tool plus whatever is needed to make the old console work with HDMI when you can emulate it in 4k and even get texture mods? I know super mario sunshine, super smash and double dash all run amazing in dolphin for example… and I own the console but still emulate.

[@ggali09]

@@AgentXRifle why do the “just emulate” crowd think they are contributing to the conversation? If I wanted to emulate I’d be watching a video about emulation. I’m here watching this video about an add on to current HDMI solutions I have on real consoles. So, emulate a life and go live it.

[@AgentXRifle]

I mean, I watched it to see if it was still a waste of money like I was convinced it was and it is, so you can go on and live your expensive and unnecessary HDMI adapted life and life it… man you really are an @$$hole 😂

[@kenh6096]

I enjoy that your reviews are honest and factual. I get sic of the sell sell sell nature you normally see. Thank you

[@shotgunmasterQL]

On TV sharpening, while the traditional sharpening scale is solid and doesn't cause any super bad ringing on modern TVs, I think Sony's additional sharpening filter called "Reality Creation" is quite impressive. The sharpness scale on Sony TVs is already pretty wide, 0 - 100, and 50 is considered neutral, but Reality Creation is an additional layer of intelligent sharpening applied based on different patterns and shapes on the screen. I use and tweak it quite often on my TV, although with 1080p games and such usually I have it set to auto, which plays things safe and only applies a touch of Reality Creation. But when I play a game that's pretty soft or even kind of blurry, Reality Creation can do some magic. Like even though Snake Pass on Switch is mostly running at a HD resolution, the additional anti aliasing it uses makes the game look extremely soft, but not exactly blurry. I keep my regular sharpness at 50, but I can easily crank Reality Creation to 90-100 on Snake Pass and I get a noticeable boost in picture clarity with zero ringing on gameplay graphics. Only 2D HUD and menu elements have an ultra fine ringing layer around them. In some cases Reality Creation can help bring the pixels more forth if the image has gone through some soft scaling. It's not quite integer scaling sharp, but it's good enough with very minimal ringing.

[@brandonpierce9868]

I appreciate you diving into these. I would've liked to see how they handle 480i content though

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] Yeah you'd need to deinterlace 480i content to 480p first. Since I was trying to not spend overly long on this, I used GameCube, Wii, and Dreamcast since it was easiest for me to get 480p HDMI out of them. I'd have maybe done PS2 480i I'd I had a bit more time but since you can't do it directly, I glossed over it. It would be very similar to 480p though.

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

Thanks! I'd say I have been waiting for this exact episode for months because the 4K Gamer Pro was available in China way earlier, pretty much the beginning of 2022. And the conclusion of this video kinda didn't surprised me... For early adopters that posted reviews that also shows there's a pretty strong sharpening effect going on, that looks rather similar to nearest neighbour interpolation except even more extreme. And... I've concluded that I don't need any external image processor. Because I seems to have almost the perfect solution for playing Switch games -- a 4K DLP projector. My XGIMI projector forced some image sharpening in its game mode, which, while I'm definitely not a fan of, turns out not being a huge issue on 4K models at least, because 4K models has larger pixels than a 4K TV due to the way 4K is displayed on a DLP projector (that is, the 1080p module shifted 4 times per frame to form a 4K image), which supposedly blurs the forced sharpened image a bit, and ended up making what's just a touch sharper than 1080p with no visible ringing effect. And it kinda works rather well at making 1080p stuffs look 4K, especially UI texts, and the only thing that breaks this illusion is really when the sharp corners of texts were rounded a bit. I still don't quite like the way sharpening was forced in the game mode, though, it makes some of the overly saturated colors inaccurate (I calibrated the back light of my projector to D65, so it's obvious when colors were off), but otherwise I guess this is the ultimate way to play Switch by far. And about external image processors, I'll agree with some of the reviews I've seen, saying that they are most useful for those that play games on a monitor rather than a TV, as monitors usually has way worse image processing quality than TVs.

[@djkevinhayes]

Great video once again! I bought an mClassic because it felt like the best/simple/cost effective way to upscale older HDMI consoles. Correct me if I’m wrong, I feel most game focused scalers didn’t accept an HDMI input, I would have to use component/analogue to use a retrotink 5 or OSSC (non-pro). The mClassic has been great for upscaling Wii U, PS3 and Xbox 360 games. Plus with their backwards compatibly, Wii, PS2 and OG Xbox; 480p and 720p games look much better with the mClassic vs my Vizio TV’s scaler. What would you recommend as a digital to digital scaler?

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] Luckily the upcoming RetroTINK 4K, PixelFX Morph, and if I recall correctly, also the OSSC Pro will all have HDMI inputs.

[@Fennecbutt]

100$ vs $1000 though. It's hard to recommend an RT4k to someone who might use it on 1-2 consoles, surely?

[@Snivy102]

I need to be using my mClassic when playing BotW on WiiU. I just can't play it without it. Set the console to 720p and the mClassic really does seem like magic. I use it on a 1080p display.

[@MrMegaManFan]

When I hear Bob mentioned in the first three minutes I know we're off to a good start!

[@skins4thewin]

When I heard about the 4K Gamer Pro, that was quite literally my exact question. Why would anyone use this when literally every 4K TV already upscales 1080p for you already, and usually with very low input lag? I had heard about the sharpening artifacting, thus it made no sense to me why anyone would ever use a 4K Gamer Pro, but in that same post I also mentioned that it COULD maybe have very specific use cases for TV's with bad upscaling or bad input lag while doing so. Looks like I was absolutely spot on about this device. That leads me to my concern.... I hate seeing ppl getting suckered in by these devices without truly understanding how they work & what they do, and sadly I see a LOT of posts of ppl being suckered in by these devices. I find it quite sad & wish that each and every one of them would take the time to just learn the basics by visiting Bob's page & learning about the basics of video output, resolution & input lag. It's such great into to know & learn when getting into extra hardware like this, & his page is such an unbelievably great source for learning about these things.

[@sonicwatcher]

I've done a lot of testing with my mClassic across 9 consoles, looking inches from the screen and regular couch distance. Conclusions; 1. My TV displays the input as 1440p with the mClassic switched on in all instances except when I tested with my fat PS2 using GSM to deinterlace a 576i PAL game into 576p = then it would only upscale to 1080p. 2. Lowering the console's resolution to the game's native resolution 100% did NOT make sny difference for me, not one, which shocked me as I've read a thousand to do that.. but nothing. Even when i took the Wii U down to 480p & tested Wii & GameCube games it was the EXACT SAME so I won't be changing console resolution settings every 2 minutes.... This was really surprising to me. 3. The only scenario where the mClassic have me no perceptual improvement in picture was with my Dreamcast because thats VGA going through a VGA to HDMI 1080p Upscaler box which I unfortunately have tonuse until I get a Kaico HDMI adapter to pteservebthe Dreamcast's 480p output so the mClassic definitely doesn't like that Upscaler box. Great video mlig, been watching for 8 years, please keep going :)

[@PieStudios]

I’m so glad you’ve covered this. Seeing people tout these as gods gift to man is so annoying.

[@defunctchannel942]

Glad yall are back. Ive missed the RGB master class videos. Would love another console one

[@ValkyrieTiara]

As "intriguing" as the 4k gamer pro's results might be, I can't imagine paying $150-$200 for them. I can see use for the mClassic as a quick and dirty 0 latancy upscaling solution for getting older hardware on modern displays without breaking the bank and coming with an extra bell and/or whistle. Maybe. Not convinced there aren't better cheaper options, but I at least see a potential use case.

[@Chriscras2]

Great new video! Still hoping for a 2022 wrap up too 😀

[@Mikkis85]

For mClassic, best use scenario is with native 1440p monitor. I have one of those and also 65" B9 OLED. When I use my monitor, difference between mClassic and without mClassic is really noticeable, for me at least. This is with Switch games. Skyward Sword, for example, looks like native 1440p game. But if I use my OLED, difference is minor.

[@OscarRodriguez-zi3qg]

same experience as you , on my 4k its ok but in my 2k monitor its looks damn great

[@johancolumnacapellan3561]

the best channel of retro gaming. i love it. thanks guys.

[@HydraSpectre1138]

According to Reddit's LG OLED recommended settings guide, they recommend setting Sharpness to 0 except for Switch (and possibly PS3, Xbox 360, Wii U, and PS Vita TV as well), where it can optionally be set to 10 for the appearance of a slightly sharper image with not too much artifacts.

[@WalrusStu]

Me watching at 360p: *Ah yes. Interesting.*

[@Animal_lives_matter]

Regarding your discovery that new model TV's now have "good sharpening" that doesn't create artefacts. This is *PRECISELY* why I dislike them - the whole point of sharpening is to INTRODUCE ARTEFACTS that happen to be visually pleasing. But with these new OLEDs, even at max 100% sharpness, image sharpness barely increases at all. Texture details on lower res content is still blurry as heck, pretty much the same as running 0 sharpening! I like 0 sharpening on my PC monitor at close viewing distances, but on a TV from 3.5m back with lower res or compressed content, I find the picture looks downright awful without at least some moderate amount of sharpening, which the current gen of TV's can't provide. Thus, because of this, I'm still using an ancient TV from 2013. I've bought and returned OLEDs because of this issue. If you don't know what the heck I'm on about, try playing Wii on your TV from 3.5m back with your TV set to 0 sharpness. Try watching DVD's or SD broadcast channel. It's unwatchable with 0 sharpness. The underlying reason is because image scaling INTRODUCES BLUR. Think about how bicubic scaling works - say you have a 2x2 checkerboard pattern. Each pixel is clearly defined. Now upscale it 1000% with bicubic. What has happened to the edges? They have become blurry and soft, because they are an interpolation, an approximation based somewhere in between white and black. This produces the colour gray on edges, which visually appears as blur. This is not accurate or true or faithful to the original pixels at all. By adding sharpening you actually shift those grey pixels closer to their original black/white. This is a desirable artefact in my view. Ringing is NOT DESIRABLE in my view, but that can be mitigated with deringing filters, or simply not using a very high sharpening coefficient in the first place so that the ringing is not visible at 3.5m viewing distance.

[@4kmentality]

So for playing newer releases on the Switch OLED (4k tv when docked) should I go for the 4k gamer pro or mClassic? I don’t really play older titles on my switch. I want to enhance titles like Mario Odyssey or Zelda as much as possible

[@SpencerSoares]

if it occurred to you that putting them in the reverse order they would fix each others problem: 4kgamerpro looks like a sharpened 1080p. mclassic looks like they swapped the pixels with blobs. you can absolutely put a hdmi splitter in-between them and it works. it looks like those mcable blobs are much more dense as they have far more information to work with. i then plug that into an HD Fury Linker and it looks great

[@MichaelODonoghueMOD]

I personally found the best results with the mclassic and 720p Xbox 360 content. I remember Dirt 2, Wolfenstein and Riddick looking a lot sharper. Couldn't tell the difference with original Xbox 480p content

[@Talkurt]

Awesome work as always

[@mangaas]

The Mclassic seems to do an actual good job, its an objective imrpovement in 3D games. It's doing what seems like 2x AA if you were poking around in PC graphics settings. Nothing big, but definitely an improvement. As a PC gamer, non AA games on the switch look like jaggy, shimmering messes. The Mclassic does reduce that somewhat. I'd say the price is an issue, but considering most Switch players buy extra controllers like extra candies, and are already getting ripped off on the price of the hardware itself (the OLED switch costs more than an Xbox Series S) The mClassic seems like a good purchase if you game docked on a big screen TV.

[@pokepress]

I can’t wait until the future video where you cover AI image upscaling, both for increasing texture resolution, and for cleaning up previously recorded footage. Based on the results I’ve seen (and gotten from my own work on the Super Mario Bros Super Show) it’s actually pretty impressive.

[@CarsandCats]

I appreciate your honesty versus the guy who clutches a blanket! I didn't believe his video and went for a second opinion.

[@johnclewlow4365]

I'm yet to see a mclasic review that does it justice. The reviews either fail to set the console to the correct output scale or as Try says "it's only 1080p" It's upscales to 1440p on every console I have (WiiU, Ps3 and switch) and the difference is massive. I run a chain through a splitter including the good ol' Wdtv which runs at 1080p 24hz, therefore up scaling my movies to 4k (the difference is amazing). The first time I ran it in the switch was with pokemon sword and all the jaggies disappeared. For the price, the mclasssic is a bargain. Get one now

[@hhectorlector]

I didn't realize the C1's sharpness settings were so far beyond what you showed the C7 doing. So much better!

[@dopphilord]

Very informative! Thank you for sharing your experience with us!

[@yromero23]

This could be a budget saver if I saw it like 4 months ago.... incredible video man! and as you said it.... many of us won't tell the difference by using this adapters

[@maximusprime49]

As soon as i saw the classic announced i was looking forward to seeing this video, great job folks as always

[@davidlow122]

Absolutely brilliant video. The 4K one in particular really is snake oil, addendums like 'you might like the flavour of the snake oil' don't change the false claims made by the sellers and some of the buyers about what it has achieved. And the Mclassic isn't much better honestly.

[@nikkiwileman7033]

To get 1440p out of ya mclassic for new or retro consoles,get a evanlak hdmi 2k emulator or edid for shortand it gives the digital handshake between mclassic and tv to run in 1440p@60hz,laters

[@AL_Talks]

I have the mClassic, I got it mostly to upscale Gamecube, PS2 and other 480p and I think it looks good. I'll definately have to try it with PS3. I don't have much else except a Retrotink 2x. I noticed on Switch it was good on some Pixel games like Eastward but I turned it off while playing Super Mario Odyssey. Glad I wasn't crazy when I thought more high def 3D games weren't the Switch Pro like they advertised. Also got mine for about $60

[@JTAI2]

I have a tink2x and used my mclassic with it until I found a cheap dvdo edge green at the flea market years ago, and liked the up scaling i got with the dvdo more that I put the tink2x and mclassic until recently because my dvdo just broke, but for a 480p to 1080p device its not bad but yeah i agree look into getting a better device like a tink5x instead, right now I'm contemplating on getting a tink5x or just waiting for the tink4k to come out

[@Demokirby]

Great Video as Usual. Actually owned a Mclassic when they had a kickstarter discount, had niche uses but eventually sold it for more than what I paid.

[@TheKayliedGamerChannel-YouTube]

Interesting... very interesting. Cheers again for the great content, I use the sharpness at 25% on my 2012 1080p 42" Panny Plasma... It usually looks sweet 🤠👍

[@thatJohann]

So I have a C1 too with a Switch. I’ve been using Sharpness 20 + Super Resolution High. Try that out. It’s even better.

[@fsaidx]

The 4KGamer and mClassic represent completely different methods of up scaling, one that works and one that doesn’t at all IMO. The mClassic at least conceptually has the right idea - when you upscale games, it makes a lack of antialiasing more evident, so adding a rudimentary FXAA-type solution is reasonable. I’ve found it works very well with Switch and even prior era consoles like the GameCube, even though scanline solutions like on the RetroTINK and such are more visually pleasing for those. The 4KGamer on the other hand is simply not a good idea. Increasing sharpness and further bringing out any blemishes to the image, creating artifacts, etc is conceptually problematic and doesn’t work for any type of image (pixel, 2D, 3D)

[@robinson32993]

I think these devices do as advertised just that the effects varies from game to game and console to console. They could be better but are not bad at all or a scam. I think we should support these devices so the creators can make even better ones in the future because they did a great job with these ones.

[@__lim494]

Summary: 4k Gamer Pro: It's worse than modern TV sharpening. Just Use the TV sharpening function. mClassic : Useful in some scenarios. Especially 480p or 720p era console, or "nintendo cartoonish/cartoon rendering" art style games.

[@BugLondon]

i think either will be very useful for getting zero lag upscaling on a 1440p or 4k computer monitor. computer monitors have horrendous upscaling of non native resolutions

[@__lim494]

@@BugLondon fair point!

[@WesDoesGames]

Glad to see some love for Live A Live

[@Waldem]

Awesome video, and I learnt something new about my C1! There's one song on the video that I liked a lot, but you don't put on video what's the song playing and I couldn't find the songs you used on the video's info. I finally found it was from yoku's island express (you talked about that game in that section, so I guessed it could be from there), anyways, would be nice to have that info more accessible, but at the same time, it's extra work for something that not too many pay attention to. Thanks for the great video, I hope you and Coury can make these kind of videos for many years! Also Happy holidays :D!

[@mylifeingaming]

[Try4ce] We do put the music the games come from in the end slate at the end of each episode, in order of use.

[@Waldem]

@@mylifeingaming OMG! you're right! Thanks! 😃

[@HydraSpectre1138]

The 4K Gamer Pro can only process 1080p. I'mma just hang up my plans of using it for slightly sharper experiences with MGS2 HD and MGS3 HD. At least I can still use it for Peace Walker HD (which is 1080p in the standalone PSN and Japanese disc release on PS3, as well as the 360 version) and MGS4. I also wanted to use it for Deus Ex: Human Revolution on PC, which has bugs when played in any resolution above 1280x720p. But maybe FSR or NIS can work well with it. I hope it can get an updated version that can work with 480p and 720p sources.