Destiny 2 Lore - The Winnower just sent a message to us. This is what it said.

[@badbohrok991]

The "fossilized in time" part of that sentence makes me feel like the Winnower is straight up saying it disagrees with the Witness's Final Shape, saying that that's not what it wants for the universe

[@phoenix9531]

I mean they obviously have different ideologies

[@gavo7911]

That was pretty obvious considering what Immaru was saying two seasons ago, and The Witness confirming that just because he made the knife doesn’t mean it carved what he wanted it to.

[@jackmack4181]

I think fossilized in time means our view of the present, the winnower most likely is beyond time and space. So it views existing species to be “fossils” existing in a span of timw

[@markmittelbach7975]

I have theory that Winnower became disappointed, disgusted, or disturbed by what the Witness was doing, and ended up changing its entire approach from what lead to the creation of the Witness. The Winnowers opinion of the universe that resulted seems much more positive than that portrayed by before finding the First Knife. It's relaxed, even appreciative of what has happened, not angry and disgusted.

[@jackmack4181]

@@markmittelbach7975I see the Winnower as something bigger than death, it ain’t the grim reaper but something other. The creation of the Witness was its attempt at scouring the field of life, it just pointed the witness a way and watched it kill everything in its path.

[@nukatom8051]

Now this is an Eldritch god. No set goal no dreams of greater purpose. It just enjoys seeing how the ants move through the grass and the dirt

[@eotwkdp]

And being amazed what the ants can build

[@Andrew-ry9be]

Kinda like The Outsider from the Dishonored trilogy.

[@10THPROPHET]

The Winnower is just looking at the Witness as it did like "lol u died bro u deserved it with that dollar store attempt at calcification"

[@LateNightHalo]

People say eldritch a lot but I’m not sure they actually understand what it means anymore

[@Forcer69]

The Winnower also sent Crow a message, it asked why he killed the handsomest hunter in Sol

[@Zvxers7]

Bastard

[@Dizastermaster.]

I don't know how he could see that stunning horn and pull the trigger 😢

[@BASEDROBBERSPONGE234]

@@Dizastermaster. 💀had me dead

[@Kreau]

You are hilarious and we will quote everything you say. vvvvvvvv Really though, love your comments dude!

[@au_crimmy8319]

@@Dizastermaster. theres a reason why he closed his eyes before shooting

[@v.rocky111]

Winnower: "Be seeing you." Guardian: "I'm home alone." Winnower: "SHEEEIIIT"🗣️🔊🔥🔥

[@SpoopySkelemans]

They winnow on my guardian till they prismatic

[@sword_racer185]

The winnower has god level rizz

[@leastbasedturk6513]

@@SpoopySkelemans she Winnow on my vex horn till radiolaria

[@devinthierault]

Why did i read be seeing you in a Cyrodil accent.

[@mrbubbles6468]

I for one like that the Winnower is just like ‘hey, big fan, love your work, ok bye’ in the most verbose way posdible

[@chantrak5936]

This dialogue feels a LOT more in line with the personality Oryx conversed with when he "Called on the deep."

[@BungieStudios]

That's what I was thinking too.

[@zen4ever3]

SAME! That’s exactly what I was thinking about!

[@GenericName0042]

Yeah. Oryx seems to have communicated with the Winnower directly, or in my interpretation, the Darkness, aka, the "rule in the game" the Winnower became.

[@neondiddle1676]

Winnower sliding into our DM’s is wild

[@Awksi]

Guardian canonically has *ass*

[@Gyro_Scope360]

Needs a new knife. Why not corrupt the being that slew it's first?

[@GideonGrimmGaming]

“Hey guardian… you looking mighty cute with your prismatic” -the Winnower, probably.

[@Bug-Intercourser]

@@Gyro_Scope360that's pretty romantic actually in a fucked up kinda way

[@acgearsandarms1343]

@@Gyro_Scope360It does what anyone does. Can’t fix it or repair it, replace it. We’re the newer model.

[@bawalbaba4820]

From all the lore entries, it's pretty obvious that The Winnower is pretty fond of Oryx in particular. It spends more time talking fondly about him than the literal first knife, which might prove to be interesting for Heresy.

[@mctankies]

The Chad Oryx versus The Virgin Witness

[@H9092-2]

I think the reason for that is pretty simple. Oryx explored this galaxy the Winnower has professed to enjoying. He Took and gave people the chance to join him. He Conquered and killed and became better because of it. But, atop all else? He explored. He Navigated. And the Winnower seems to like that. Oryx was, at his core, interesting. Not like the Witness.

[@cookie856]

@@H9092-2 I mean, if we got by what the 3 sisters were we have explorer/soldier/whatever Savathun corresponds as

[@H9092-2]

@@cookie856 Hunter, Titan, Warlock.

[@cookie856]

@@H9092-2 Guardian classes are just parallels to the Hive lmao

[@garyprime6983]

“Hey little mama let me whisper in your ear” - The Winnower

[@annoyingnessbeginswithme5698]

😭😭😭

[@MisterJoshuaTree]

C’mere, toots

[@rockycvs3]

"Wait til you see my oh"😂

[@Left-sh1db]

“Tell you sum that you won’t like to hear”

[@NCause]

😂😂😂

[@thepaleomancer4160]

I think I have an idea. When I’m not lurking in cyberspace, I’m a geologist. The line about “sedimentary necrolite” is screaming to me. The Witness’ final shape is repeatedly referred to as a “calcification” of reality. In geological systems, calcite is a mineral often formed in marine environments from the skeletal material of corals, radiolarians, and other organisms. It forms sedimentary rocks called limestone. From dead organisms. Dead stone. Sedimentary “necro”-lite. I’m pretty sure that the Winnower/Darkness is mocking the final shape.

[@arryn786]

Respectfully it was extremely obvious and there is no calcification used in any other context. It’s not even that word that gives it away but instead necrolyte.

[@ashleylongley1628]

@@arryn786if you wanted to be respectful you could’ve not said that. They were just adding context which I think is cool to know

[@MrWiggz69]

Imo it has a double meaning, let me explain. Although necrolite doesn't turn up much to describe the witness. Necrolyte on the other hand is very accurate. A necrolyte is a term found in WoW lore and the word for word description is: Necrolytes are binders of souls who command the black powers that hold control over the earth. Linked into the dominions of the lower planes, Necrolytes have power over all things dark and evil, including the raising of fallen warriors to create armies of the undead. Now this could very much just be a massive coincidence but I think the similarities are far too on the nose for it not to be connected.

[@arryn786]

@@MrWiggz69 yes this is the result I also got when searching and I believe it’s what is being referenced in the lore tab as Witness can very much be seen as a binder of souls, being made of multiple individuals.

[@arryn786]

@@ashleylongley1628 Yeah No. if YOU wanted to be respectful you wouldn’t post that bait and start crying over a reply that wasn’t even directed to you. Do you see the difference in respect now? Hope this helps little troll👍.

[@Silencersix]

“Why you ain’t accept my friend request bro? You don’t wanna be my friend?”

[@jacobuslol]

😭😭

[@Creym464]

Winnower really threathen us to make fren request

[@stigmatoxin1310]

"I showed you my Witness, pls respond"

[@jah5405]

Lmfaoooo nah the witness line got it😂😂😂

[@PlebNC]

​@@stigmatoxin1310Send loots, plz

[@Randucky]

The winnower literally saying haiiiiii o⁠(⁠(⁠*⁠^⁠▽⁠^⁠*⁠)⁠)⁠o Is crazy

[@kyanballet2960]

the witness speaks full of intent and purpose the winnower speaks with confidence but also very relaxed the winnower doesnt feel like it has ever lost and acts like it never will and acts care free while the witness is filled with a burning desire that it needs to complete

[@Benjamin_Gilbert-Lif]

Its the true perfect villain, the calm of the witness with the casualness of calus and the cunning of savathun

[@goldenyak629]

It can't ever lose. It can only be delayed.

[@zorpglorp]

Because it has never lost. in every "game" it's final shape had always occurred. (different from the witnesses final shape, the witness went rogue and thought sword logic was bullshit, which is what the winnower follows.)

[@Keemperor40K]

@@Benjamin_Gilbert-Lif I don't feel like the Winnower is a villain in that specific sense. It is I feel an permanent antagonist who is neither against nor for us, but fulfilling a simple but deadly purpose, that is to test every creation of the Traveller (the Gardener) in order to determine its worth. The big caveat is that the tests of the Winnower never end and no matter how high a civilization climbs or how powerful it becomes the Winnower will always test them to determine their straight and if they can continue to exist. Eventually every creation ultimately fails, but the Winnower does not test out of malice, but because it seeks to determine how high a civilization can climb.

[@MyNameIsZelo]

@@Keemperor40K if we run the interpretation that the Winnower became a rule of the universe like how the Gardener became the rule of Paracausality, then it cannot ever be defeated. Light is given, Darkness is taken, and the rule of the Winnower is that you must fight to survive. That rule tests everything in existence all the time forever. There is no winning against this rule. There is only existence until you do not, and at the end of time where nothing exists, the Winnower and the Gardener still exist as rules to a universe.

[@MuhammadAli-qk2fe]

I knew there was no way that the witness would say "my man Oryx"!

[@zeraphphalanx2794]

Oryx: The Deep I greet you. The Winnower: Yo Big O!

[@ASpaceOstrich]

FYI, its not "my maan" its more like "we have a man on the inside". It's using the term like a piece on a chessboard or a resource to be spent, not a term of endearment.

[@501sttrooperbmc2]

⁠@@ASpaceOstrichmaybe, but cmon, let us have our fun.

[@ahmedrazan4554]

@@ASpaceOstrich the winnower literally says "my man Oryx" in the Book: Unveiling

[@ASpaceOstrich]

@@ahmedrazan4554 Yes, and they likely literally meant it like "we have 400 men" rather than like a surfer bro.

[@CadeIsntHere]

I think the necrolite line refers to the witness’s idea of the final shape, everything “fossilized in time.” Referring to the pyramid/darkness material as necrolite.

[@crestothegecko6279]

that makes sense. Necrolite basically translates to 'dead rock'. Which, even though their goal was to prevent death, is an apt description of their plan

[@somnolentlilac]

@@fulgerion Trapping something in time is incredibly similar to fossilization. I think it's a very fitting description for the Winnower to use to describe the Witness' plans

[@Flawashington]

@@fulgerion by very definition fossilize means “Become or cause to become fixed and incapable of change or development” so yes the witness did actually try fossilise the universe

[@carterhalo255]

I love this interpretation

[@Grayves_X]

I just thought it was talking about the medium we received Unveiling through, but this makes sense

[@feathersigil2048]

The reference to nacre and pearls can also refer to how the Traveller/Gardener is changing now that She has Darkness inside Her. The alabaster orb, the perfect pearl, the being of purest Light, now has a little grit (Darkness).

[@ThorfinnSkuII]

bingo

[@uranium8147]

The winnower is so much scarier than the witness imo, it’s carefree personality and just talking casually, while being a literal god of the universe is just crazy

[@olivia892]

Ontop of that not even being "truly evil", its just EXCITED, maybe even just happy that to some degree, it has a champion with the guardian and our allies

[@juannavejas6510]

That’s the thing about the Winnower, it doesn’t need to do anything for its final shape to happen. Natural selection, survival of the fittest always happens. Granted there are those who go out their way to prove they are stronger, but guardians kill in order to keep earth safe. Either way we still prove that the strong live and the weak die. The Winnower just wants to kick back and watch it all unfold.

[@lukasvillar9328]

​@@olivia892Somewhat similar to the Shadows from Babylon 5, scary gods that talk about the most vicious things with the enthusiasm of a teenager talking about their favorite hobby.

[@loopygordo]

​@@olivia892 I think that's the part people really need to absorb. The winnower and the gardener are basically forced of nature with clashing ideology. The winnower doesn't care about good or evil it cares that it's repetitious ever present pattern will continue to repeat itself. The strong will take and take and take until it's all that's left Everytime until the end of time. The gardener believes the opposite. Free will, compassion and understanding the complexity and chaos of life can overcome this ever lasting final shape the universe always falls into. We are but pieces on a board of a grand game being played by beings who are so far out of our reach we can't even see them as anything other than gods.

[@olivia892]

@@loopygordo its honestly also why i kinda had the theory that "the traveller representing the gardener and the veil represents the winnower" ideas are wrong. As we know the traveler has itself given out thr forces of void, solar and ark. Elements we know have and will destroy things or cause issues, while the veil creates connections and personifies or creates physical manifestation of bonds and life. So what if... Through missunderstanding, THE TRAVELER is actually the one representing the winnower, and vice versa

[@stuxvt]

The voice acting you're doing on the lore is absolutely peak, thanks for making it not only informational, but a genuine experience to learn

[@Truck-kun11]

"Yo Guardian, I see you have free time, how about some Space Netflix and chill?

[@NSWSPIRITWOLF]

Nah not space Netflix how about SpaceNet or SpaceFlix

[@blazediron8317]

Byf, i just noticed you hit a million subscribers, congrats! It's well deserved! I know you've had your struggles, but you are a pillar in the Destiny community. Never forget that.

[@greylee8340]

Winnower: Be seeing you. Us: damn!

[@AntaresTwo6]

John Wick: first time?

[@cphr64x67]

us: new gun soon yay

[@bradymengel2473]

Us: can’t wait to see what bullets you shoot

[@luxaeterna9711]

Us: Plague be upon ye

[@Ryze2803]

And I’ll be seeing the winnower every damn day when I turn it into a machine gun.

[@gabrielmorrisroe7814]

“Xoxo gossip girl” - the Winnower probably

[@KutluMizrak]

Who is it. that's one thing it'll never tell.

[@Loonfuzzy]

Actually goated move, knew instantly after reading it that it wasn't a bug, it was cheeky bungie

[@ZakuZuko]

winnower sound so chill i wanna hang out with him while he tell me about the universe while im high af. 😂

[@alfagamingnl1815]

I personally think the "Oh, no, not my sedimentary necrolite, fossilized in time." bit is the Winnower talking about the Witness and it's Final Shape maybe even dissing it a bit. The Witness was formed trough death which is likely where the necro part of necrolite came from and the Witness is literally incapable of change and it's final shape is freezing everything in a single moment of calcification making everything unchanging which is what the fossilized in time part is likely referring to.

[@MissGreenTeaLady]

Yep, that's what I interpreted it as. Kind of scoffing at the Witness.

[@Glucenaphene]

And also since sedimentary has to do with rocks, and ‘necrolite’ sounds like a rock name, it could be just the final shape itself and how it would be all of the being of the universe dying during the process of being turned to ‘stone’

[@matthewtaber9635]

I think the Nacre better suits the interpretation of the traveler or our guardian. That, no matter how perfect and brillant we appear on the outside, our core is grit. This suggests that we can not escape the path of violence and one upping our foes, the winnowers game. This would even fit a visual representation of the traveler, appearing a percect pearl outwardly, but ultimately made of the same grit as (perhaps) the winnower.

[@NoobPTFO]

I get the feeling the Winnower will rizz up a little chunk of our fan base eventually

[@deathnights-bane3301]

Winnussy

[@georgelucas8815]

Definitely

[@pafman123]

I've had a hint of a feeling that they (Bungie) might pull a WoW and try to split us into gardener vs winnower like alliance vs horde. I'm not quite sure how well this would work I. The destiny universe though.

[@TheShamann]

I agree. There were leaks from forever that talked about patrol zone PvP combat. This could be how that happens. Guardians who follow the Winnower and those who follow the Gardener.

[@atomic_wait]

​@@pafman123They were kind of starting to set up a Dark Vanguard years ago with Drifter and the rest, we could choose to side with him and all that. Ultimately they backed away from Darkness being evil in and of itself, partially because it simplified development. No need to have a big complex split in the experience if using Darkness doesn't put you in the horde.

[@faceface8802]

This lore is amazing. Thanks as always. Been a fan of you for years and I just can’t believe it just keeps getting better. This universe is here to stay and I love it.

[@nemokrad2650]

Friend of mine’s take on the Necrolite bit is that the Winnower is calling the Witness a “fossilized piece of shit”

[@thepaleomancer4160]

I believe it.

[@10THPROPHET]

Yeah the Winnower is calling the Witness a little bitch

[@TeverTV]

Starforge is awesome. So glad to see all of my favorite Destiny 2 Content Creators partnering with them!

[@markricheard1870]

Honestly i don’t think we are going to ever see the Winnower physically. The “Be seeing You” is One-Way. It sees us, not the other way around. I think that would be like trying to see or destroy Gravity, it’s a part of the Universe. It can’t really be removed, just like the Light. Salvations Edge basically revealed that the Witness was the Winnowrrs version of a Guardian - it granted it its power, but it could not control its mind, maybe it never wished to. Just like Guardians, the Witness went out and could conduct actions contrary to its Creators goal. I think the Dynamic between the Light and Darkness can easily be compared to the Bhuddist concept of Yin and Yang, where supposedly Opposing Forces are in actuality, Complimentary. There is also how previously the Winnower, and later the Witness and Nezarec saw Existence as Suffering, a Common Bhuddist Concept. I think the Witness actually made the Winnower realize that Existence is preferential to nonexistence, as although suffering can be found… *so can Sweetness.* (Props if you get the reference) Oh, and Video starts at 2:05

[@KutluMizrak]

Well... Here's the thing.. Darkness is in Traveler now. Given time, that memory might be given shape by Light... And an actual Gardener entity might physically manifest through Travelers own conceptions. And that would necessitate Winnower to also take shape. Balance and all that.

[@DeathsPit00]

Well we know from Unveiling that both the Gardener and Winnower have/had voices in the pre-universe of the flower game, but they each made separate things to act through in our universe via the Traveler and the Veil which in my mind operate as very left brain/right brain operations. Traveler being materialism and creativity and the Veil being inner monologue and emotion. Problem is that now both are in a single entity which logically could give rise to the fully conscious being into our reality. My bet is that in the long game both of them will show up this way, but not for a good long while.

[@anthonyargueta131]

I think we will definitely see the winnower. However the best way would be to maybe have it possess an ogre like how Oryx did it or any other type of enemy. We can hear its voice but we won't ever see such an incomprehensible being. I doubt he will be a main antagonist tho

[@Phoenix-214]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that was a reference to the Precursor (Halo) concept of Living Time. Of course there's also a horrifying fan theory that the Flood are essentially the living universe's way of consuming the experiences of living beings. What, y'think the Winnower is gonna be like the Gravemind?

[@eotwkdp]

Halo

[@madphoenix9826]

Fantastic reading of that lore tab! You really give the Winnower a lot of character there =) Also, what it tells us reminds me a lot of Berserk, to "Do as thou wilt." It will watch us do what we do, whatever we do, and likely not interfere, as long as WE decide what we are doing. Also also, cosmic horror here we come!

[@KilothATEOTT]

I personally took the “sedimentary necrolite, fossilized in time” to be the version of the Final Shape that the witness attempted to enact. It seemed the witness wanted to settle everything and freeze it all in time, effectively fossilizing it all. I thought it was saying “no, my Final Shape is not the one the Witness wanted.”

[@technesis6574]

Exactly

[@arryn786]

I mean it’s been made very clear that the hives sword logic is what the Winnower final shape is. The Winnower is the one who gave it to them in the first place.

[@MrWiggz69]

I think necrolite is either a hint or a misinterpretation of the term necrolyte. A necrolyte is defined as a binder of souls so it very much fits with the witness.

[@DanielSmith-te3df]

I wondered if it was just directly addressing the witness, as it has been stuck in the past for millions of years

[@Thomas-hx3pr]

I get the sense that the winnower likes The Big Squeeze. It’s the final shape of the universe without paracausal energy. Paracausality should the the addition the gardener made when it kicked off existence.

[@ImReallyRaw]

Bro mad props, you conveyed that dialogue very well. Genuinely.

[@brongle4444]

hi im the winower this is my alt account, glad you got my messge. much love

[@tsunertoo9149]

Traveleeeer the Winnower is smurfing agaaaaaain!

[@Ragnar_hg007]

Omg winnower hi

[@badjuju2721]

Omg haaaai :3

[@NSWSPIRITWOLF]

Hey winnower so I got a question You got a single lady god friend cause ya know I'm single help a brother out

[@steel5602]

Can I turn you into a gun ?

[@PolskaTheGrey]

Man i love overtime Byf's growth over the years and now doing voice acting in his reads to give these characters a sense of persona and not just reading the text.

[@cyan8122]

I love the tone you use when reading the winnowers message, casual yet very sinister. Its the exact inflection I imagined it

[@cyan8122]

Also I interpreted sedimentary necrolite to be oryx, sedimentary as in oryx's sunken body underneath the oceans of titan, and necrolite as in undead acolyte

[@cyan8122]

Also Also, regarding the the winnowers statement of "be seeing you", I'd say its more akin to watching us prove it right, it has no need to fight us or to see us in person, when we exemplify its choice so well

[@nathanaeldukeshire6375]

The winnowed reminds me of the science concept of Entropy. The increasing randomness of the universe. This could be to an increase in temperature causing molecules to speed up. Or it could be the inflation of the universe allowing for more movement of things ranging from molecules to stars.

[@vocpt3776]

So ORYX never communed with The Witness, communicated directly with The Winnower, no wonder he never was a disciple, the main Hive went straight to source (albeit through wormgods/Rhulk/Witness)

[@nicholascazmay2126]

Exactly - he bypassed the Witness completely and sought the truth. Not only that, but he embraced it rather than cowering in the face of that truth as the Witness did.

[@eze_612]

First time watching a byf video since forsaken and that intro is just so nostalgic from D1😫

[@coltoniusix7638]

so cool that the winnower is actually real. Can’t wait for the next expansion.

[@Gee-bg2rv]

​@fulgerion probably means real as in it can communicate and stuff, not like the traveler that just stays quiet and doesn't say a thing or communicate so we know nothing about it. It's pretty big that the winnower, the actual entity In the darkness actually can communicate and interact with us which leads to many other possibilities

[@gaeren]

(Loving the background footage as it clearly outs Byf - as one of those guys who ignores getting the resources in Breach to rush the boss instead). Nice!!

[@LeykRoss]

Isnt the necrolite bit just The Veil? A rock-plant-fungus-paracausal thingy? Perfectly fits what it's being said here.

[@Dr.Libratum]

That's what I thought too, makes alot of sense

[@LukarWuff]

I just want to say that I absolutely love your reading of this lore. You ate it up with style and I am all here for it lol.

[@BrazarB]

Really dont think the Winnower will be a villain, the Light vs Dark saga ended. If the Winnower were to be a villain it'd just be restarting the conflict essentially(its thing is also that it *doesnt* intervene, if it does, the Gardener wins). The Veil is probably the Winnower itself, which is why it hasnt done anything itself other than be a tool for others use

[@kingkunta3753]

i mean, conceptually, the winnower will always be a villain, because like it says, somebody is always abiding its rule. i think it simply won't be a main villain, but simply in the background, pulling strings as a god of its status would

[@ASpaceOstrich]

If nothing else, it'd just be doing the Witness again. If thats where the plot goes from here, the franchise is fucked. They need to drop the stakes down and actually use all the potential for more grounded and interesting stories, not another cosmic scale end of reality threat.

[@jojopojo9516]

I absolutely LOVE this lore entry. And shout out to Byf for his great voice work.

[@PercivalBC]

I interpreted the "sedimentary necrolite, fossilized in time" as the Witness' concept of the final shape

[@PercivalBC]

@@fulgerion And what is the Witness' Final Shape if not the corpse of the universe frozen in time? Sedimentary rocks are made of a compression of existing rocks and once living organisms. What did the nearly complete Final Shape look like in the opening cutscene?

[@savages-on-deck]

Just gotta say I love the way you delivered the Winnower’s lines 🔥

[@charlos51ht]

I honestly like "The Winnower" as a character that has to exist, just like the traveler. Like two gods that can't ever be killed but have forces we need to tap into

[@EmpressOfTheDeep]

Given the fact that the Traveler was screaming in pain building up to and during Final Shape, I'd have to believe it can be killed. What's the purpose of pain if not to protect from death?

[@jadenyuki2031]

I don't think the Traveler is the equal to the Winnower but the Gardener is.

[@tumarocks]

@@jadenyuki2031yes, although the traveler and the veil represent the gardener and the winnower with the same ideology of not being worshipped but instead being used to make our own fate

[@badjuju2721]

I dont think the Travler is the gardener, I think the travler is an agent of the gardener like how the witness (though going against the winnower's wishes) was an agent of the winnower, its first knife.

[@SpoopySkelemans]

​@@badjuju2721 I agree. Using the Traveler and Witness aa representatives clash agianst what the Winnower is actually saying, which is essentially "sword logic my beloved". They dont care what comes out on top so long as one of them does

[@theredgamer211]

I really love how you read the lore tabs like the person they're perspective is from

[@catchableorphan]

"sedimentary necrolite, fossilized in time" sounded to me like a sarcastic dig at the witness. Wasn't the final shape about freezing everything into a permanent unchanging moment? I figured it was a reference to that, or am I missing something? Also, this whole note reads like a mobster who's just letting you know, that they know, you took out their cousin, and they didn't like em all that much but they were family and he'll be keeping an eye on you. Kinda vibe.

[@doaresurgence4444]

2:22 - 5:23 I literally could listen to how this lore tab is read for hours on loop

[@alexalvord7789]

Should have started it, "Greetings guardians! ... And Aztecross"

[@pizzahunter69]

?

[@Jhawke]

So I know that you're reffing Byf's intro, but: A villian breaking the fourth wall by name dropping some major youtubers in a lore tab would be *wild*.

[@C1arkyy_]

guys he’s saying that aztecross is a react shill to byf

[@pizzahunter69]

@@C1arkyy_ ah thanks for the answer

[@JROCC205]

That would've been the funniest

[@Calif0rniabee]

Byf literally has the best voice to be making videos like this.

[@jackolantern147]

Now we need a video on the conversation between Oryx and the Winnower.

[@spacemegalodon5049]

Watch byf’s dynasty video.

[@BASEDsoda]

10:13 i posit it's all the statues that had to be broken to unmake the final shape, the precursors came together, got fossilized like pearls--by the way, doesn't the veil look like the cross-section of a pearl? the necrolite has to be the compound that composes the statues in that other realm that we have to crush

[@nicholasschoonbeck6866]

There is apparently a PS game, Trinity Universe, that has "Necrolite. A stone that holds the power of darkness within." Bungie usually isn't that mysterious in their uses of words we have, or words they create based on words we have. Something hidden? Something buried? Something pretty on the outside but dark in the center?

[@xelastarkly]

The "be seeing you" is so casual, but it's soo chilling.

[@steelrz44]

"Be Seeing You Guardian." - Winnower John Wick, probably.

[@Dis4Iysdexia]

Good stuff man. Love the dramatic way you read the message

[@CoreyEacret]

Seeing you go straight from that last encounter to the boss in Breach made my eye twitch a bit 😂

[@PruceWayne]

When the lore tab is talking about taking, it reminded me of Tolland and how he has his own thrown world. Would be crazy if the Winnower started talking to him and he ended being a massive problem for us

[@lucasteo51]

I do think the term « necrolite » refer simply to the witness and its final shape. And how the winnower made us think was its beloved. The abjective -lite is usually used for rocks and minerals, which would be fitting because what the witness thought the final shape would be, perfect stillness calcified in necrolite (aka dying flesh set in stone)

[@omegaprime06]

That "be seeing you" at the end just reminded me of the prisoner

[@MichaelMiller-bs3tz]

I think the Sedimentary Necrolite frozen in time is indeed referring to the Black Garden. It goes on to mentioned it didn't like the rule change (referring to the garden before time) shortly after.

[@MichaelMiller-bs3tz]

@@fulgerion As Asher Mir would say "Irrelevant".

[@BIGsauce666]

The diagram of the pearl whole and split instantly reminded me of The Traveller and The Veil.

[@greeksquad2884]

the necrolite "fossilized in time" could be referring to the final shape. The winnower is being dismissive of the final shape, and maybe even being sarcastic in calling it "my" necrolite. Its probably another reiteration of the difference in philosophy of the witness and the winnower

[@Senriam]

The inward flaw was the dissenting voice that told us “what can be made in darkness can be unmade in darkness”

[@GM-lx7ji]

I remember Caiatl sending messages to the community on X/Twitter during season of the chosen.

[@zeraphphalanx2794]

I remember that. Wouldn't be surprised if after a season or two you finally start seeing the Witch Queen tweeting.

[@life-destiny1196]

@@zeraphphalanx2794 Didn't that happen in Season of the Lost?

[@zeraphphalanx2794]

@@life-destiny1196 tbh I don't think so but I can't recall. The closes she came to doing it was within the lore tabs itself.

[@conorhealy6268]

BYF KELGORATH IS BACK, HES IN THE PALE HEART IN THE IMPASSE, he can pop up there during an overthrow as one of the bosses i believe in the area next to the lost sector towards the enterance from the wall.

[@life-destiny1196]

There are a couple other familiar Taken names in that location, too, like Ashorc from the Corrupted strike and Yateth from Lake of Shadows (and later Dares I think).

[@gojo1838]

2:47 Winnower really hitting us with that line, and hearing Byf say it like that just hits different

[@Anonymous14217]

I think the sedimentary necrolite is referring to the Traveler. We know that the Traveler is either the Gardener or heavily connected to it. The reason it’s “fossilized in time” is because it is fundamentally a being of light. When you boil light and dark down to the most fundamental level light represents space and darkness represents time. So a being of pure light is not touched by the darkness aka time (at least before final shape). That’s why when darkness and light come together they create Space-Time aka the universe.

[@immoralboi3158]

I don't even think The Winnower is even an antagonist at this point, just one of two deities simply playing their game. And even if they did become a antagonist what hope would we even have of fighting them? The Witness was simply The First Knife and it took everything we had and more to finally bring them down. No matter how strong we get, no matter how many "gods" we lay low and turn into weaponry we do not stand a chance against a true deity like The Winnower.

[@ghostfire5973]

I just want to commend Byf for actually voice acting the Winnower Like with chuckles, sly notes, sinister remarks I love this BYF READ ME A BED TIME STORY

[@elijahcox1521]

The last time I was this early peter was still ghost

[@angiejensen1972]

Byf reading the lore tab felt as if he was possessed by the Winnower itself… Outstanding, Byf- lovely video and narrating, as always.

[@vitrioliccarnage]

“Let me in” Winnower channeling Bray Wyatt. RIP.

[@cjalmighty]

"He's got the whole world in his hands."

[@Wandamiancrucifixplat]

Are we going to get LA knight in destiny 2 to get constantly beat up by the winnower

[@toxicwasp4675]

If we ever meet the Winnower in game I believe that Byf should voice them

[@Zero-hd4oe]

I feel like the winnower has the same speech pattern like Savathun

[@nicholascazmay2126]

I was actually thinking the same thing as Byf was reading this… it’s led me to some interesting thoughts as to Savathun’s long term goals and where the Winnower and Traveler fit in.

[@sebay4654]

​@@nicholascazmay2126 Or the question, is savathun lying to Us Again? Considering Unveiling is the origin point could this just be a lie (I hope not but I'm keeping my guard up)

[@Patti326]

During dual destiny mission where Savathun was talking about breaking rules and are annoyed with the "tug of war" between light and dark. I don't trust Savathun with a 10 ft pole.

[@Worles_]

I cant find the exact speech but the way it speaks reminds me of Durandal from marathon. Maybe it’s a bungie-ism but I swear Durandal also says “Be seeing you” at the end of one of its messages

[@jackmack4181]

I imagine the Winnower is playing a long haul game, if the gardener represents life/change and the Winnower is death/stanation. When the Gardener created the traveler to change the game, I believe Winnower forged the witness as a method of “cleaning the slate” The Winnower doesn’t seek to rule, to conquer, to control life. It’s death and seeks what it rules… The End

[@BrazarB]

That's the thing, the Winnower & Witness have opposing philosophes, if the Witness won then it would freeze the flower game

[@Breadwalker765]

​@@BrazarB and it wouldn't be that fun to unplug the console of 2 players with VERY big save file.

[@nunyadayumbusiness591]

I don't think The Winnower is really concerned with the death of everything - it's The Winnower, not The Reaper. "The strong survive." Nothing in that axiom says you have to kill everything else, just that you have to be strong & clever enough to survive. (I think the frozen time / stagnation aspect was The Witness, not The Winnower.) IMO We're the Winnower's ideal tool, the "first knife" let the grain fall by the wayside, while we actively collect the "wheat" while filtering out the "chaff". We also prove his axiom (and the sword logic) by breaking every blade that tries to reap us.

[@tumarocks]

This is wrong cuz the witness is made up the precursors and plus the winnower and the witness have different ideologies

[@tumarocks]

@@fulgerion I kinda view it like this too with the Gardener being a mother that nurtures and the Winnower being a father the regulates. Both couldn’t live without each other, now the first knife lore book idk why loved ones would attack each other, out fuck it tho.

[@PetaNight]

“Fossilized in time” reminds me of outriders and the statue army created by the mysterious father character, that just like the winnower, we’ve heard abundance about but never met or seen.

[@lukeshealy1882]

Maybe the necrolite is referring to the status that the Witness called the Final Shape, where he turns them into stone and stuff. Because then Fossilized in time would fit well.

[@ethanstubblefield7796]

I like the idea of winnower not necessarily being the next villain but a being that is always there that influences whatever enemy comes next

[@bonjoviburneraccount8148]

Could the necrolite being fossilized in time be speaking about The Witness version of the final shape?

[@awildbidoof6155]

I have several theories, but based on quests and dialogue after beating the campaign and in the side missions I think things are going to go as such. The three echo shards of the Witness are fused with light and dark energy that it warps paracausality, We saw it in full form when entering the pale heart. The Dark pictured the thing, and the light made it real. These echoes are able to take a concept and push it to the extreme based on who held them. The first touched down on the terraformed vex planet of Nessus, it responded to the hard scanned copy of Maya Sunderesh and gave them a physical form. Then this Maya who I'll refer to as (AS) used the shard and her millions of cloned ai to Coerce the Vex under her control. The Radiolaria being the main focal point of this which responds greatly to the echo as it is apart of something ancient like the Gardener and Winnower, essentially meaning not only are Vex able to be converted into their control, but any and all Exos, as Exos' are made of the Radiolaria. As we find a way to get this echo back from AS, we begin to understand that these things can bend and rewrite rules of the universe, akin to taking a pawn, and turning it into a queen in chess. So we make haste to find the next two. The second falls to Fikrul, who needed more dark ether to produce a large legion of Scorn. using their fragment and knowledge we have on their season, it's likely he's found a way to transfuse blood or biomatter from other living things, and mix it with dark ether to essentially mass produce the substance. their goal could be since they are on earth, to make landfall near or around Twilight gap, where millions of Fallen lie dead. revive them with the power and extra dark ether, and then overwhelm the last city in one blood frenzy as all our attention is diverted to the traveler. the final one will land either in one of the two hive sisters hands, or on Oryx themselves on Titan. Seeing as preliminary scans of Oryx's body show it still dead, but accumulating energy and growing, the Shard will be used in their second coming perhaps. Bending the rules of Necromancy to their favor and allowing Oryx to defy the sword logic (i.e. Heresy). so it'l be up to us to try and stop this or keep them sealed within Titan so they can't escape and threaten the city once more. This will probably be a Drifter focused season, as they will be getting some vibes of the 9 going on to warn him about the oncoming disaster. In a most recent game of Gambit, Drifter stated "you ever have to eat a hive? you'll be faced with choices like that if you wanna survive out in the frontier." We'll likely be going to the place for the next destiny expansion where drifters crew was wiped out and he fought creatures that could suck the light right out of you as he's regaled to us several times at this point as the echoes, once gathered will probably react to something out on the frontiers of space (i.e. The winnower) leading us to see some wild and truly legendary stuff. Sorry for the massive dump, but these are the threads I've been plucking at as of late based on lore, patterns, and years playing this game. I'm excited to see if I'm right in some way in the coming months.

[@YeetleMcBeetle]

1:06 Telesto did it before, but I'm not sure if Telesto counts as a villain?

[@Teletheus]

There’s another layer to “the whole world is your sweet silicate shellfish” in the context of this particular lore tab for this particular ship. It’s called *Nacre,* the stuff that makes up the majority of a pearl formed *inside an oyster.* So if the world is our oyster, then *we* are the grit in that oyster. And it’s only in the context of suffering and competition with other beings-the irritation formed by our grit-that we are forced to evolve, grow, and prove our worth. *That* is what forces the formation of the beautiful pearl of our self-evident proof for meriting existence. But now that we have learned the Light is, in a sense, its own compound being like the Witness, consisting of all the Guardians and Ghosts formed by it? And if we are the grit at the center of that pearl, much like the dissidents at the heart of the Witness? Then does the Winnower ultimately hope *we* will become dissenters at the heart of the Light, so we can (ironically, poetically) cause its ultimate downfall *just as those dissenters caused the fall of the Witness for us?*

[@greylee8340]

So is the winnower going to show up as a giant hexagon and beat us up too?

[@br-4341]

*triangle intensifies*

[@greylee8340]

Hexagon enters chat.

[@izanagisburden9465]

C U B E

[@lonewolfhero3526]

​@@izanagisburden9465 Borg-looking ahh

[@Seren_Moth]

i absolutely love the way you read this, the inflection and tone you put in it was absolutely perfect. also have you ever considered a podcast, perhaps with other lore youtubers?

[@kermitderfrosch5432]

byf as voice actor for winnower would go harder then i am rn

[@lordmelord4935]

4:53 I thought I heard a door close when Byf began to say ‘Great, Beloved Cosmos’

[@StarOfVoid]

where is that scary thumbnail from?

[@phoenix9531]

It's savathun art being repurposed... Kinda confusing.

[@kojeb]

boo

[@phobicbigot]

That’s Eric

[@StarOfVoid]

@@phoenix9531 thx

[@Lechugito]

Now that we've seen episode 1, I believe the Nacre lore description was Maya Sundaresh talking. Maya speaks in a similar tone, a condesending tone. The descriptions says "no use crying over spilled radiolaria", and since we know now that she can influence vex, this kinda makes sence. She also brings up a "gift" and I think that's hint at the echo of control in the heart of nessus.

[@Perkustin]

I think the sedimentary thing is maybe the Veil? Just based on it's resemblance to Geological objects like Opals, Tourmalines, Geodes etc. I Think it's maybe Bungie trying to put the veil to bed as a narrative tool and also if this is the winnower he's further mocking the Witness as the veil was what they used to become the Witness but the Winnower just saw it as a throwaway doo-dad like Martin Prince's Geodes. Certainly not the Winnower's Traveller.

[@joe__]

interesting… the veil definitely looks like a geode that’s been cracked open, for sure.

[@samurai137x]

I'll never forget in Unveiling when the winnower referred to "my man, Oryx" and then thinking it was the Witness who called him that, but now this is so clearly the same voice talking to us in casual tone and I think that's wonderful

[@caffinatedredpanda9964]

1:00 About that, i was there when TFS was launching, instead of any of the normal bungie "please wait" stuff, it said "why do you resist us" or somthing like that.

[@matthewhastie8351]

On necrolite, for me what caught my eye was the "fossilized in time" line. It could be the Vex, but I also wonder if the Winnower is telling us that the Final Shape enacted by The Witness isn't really its vibe. But it, after all, can't tell the First Knife what shape to carve. Also I kinda hope the Winnower itself isn't a villain. I like that it's always there, wanting to be the devil on your shoulder, urging you to Take what you want and what you need to survive

[@KingOfSpacePrime]

The thing about The Winnower: I don't see it as an enemy in the same way as the Witness, or even as some over-arching villainous mastermind. The Winnower is a philosophy. I certainly hope we never fight it in a campaign or raid. The Winnower is something that we must always fight against through our everyday behaviors. Through vigilance, and a committal to higher ideals. The only way to defeat the Winnower is to simply not fight it at all.

[@ps5426]

Love how bungie does meta things like having characters take over their messaging. Looking forward to hearing from Durandal when Marathon launches.