Destiny 2 Lore - Revenant Act 2's Story! Fikrul's Master Plan & Eido's... Plan?

[@riskrunner4532]

Eido:"Are you winning, dad?" Mithrax:"YOUR MOTHER HUNG HERSELF RAAAAAA-"

[@redfalcon8062]

*Cue the Venom Theme*

[@christianbrown635]

I’d actually die laughing

[@trevelyandovah8479]

Then he skitters away

[@moutasemcharkieh2565]

LOOOOL...... wtf

[@WDGabe]

SHINJI, CRANK THAT SOULJA BOY

[@Forcer69]

My favorite part was how Eido constantly begged us to free Eramis, just for Eramis to tell her that her potions are a joke and she’s a disgrace to Sjur Eido’s name.

[@mauricegreen5321]

Eramis just a tsundere

[@kogden8110]

Wait did I miss this part?

[@aufaahkam9823]

​@kogden8110 part 2 of eido quest.

[@aidanthornton173]

*Eido:* Look, the echo is free, it seeks someone worthy to wield it! **Echo hovers about** *Eido:* Look, it's coming to me. **Echo ignores Eido** *Eido:* W-wait, if it's not me then, who does it deem worthy? *Randal The Vandal:* Was there really any doubt?

[@Mindontcompute]

Never in my lifetime I expected 5 LGBTABCDEFG EXPANSIONS for no good reason exept receiving money from George Soros. I want some DLC about it.

[@Ezga7]

2:50 As a hunter, I'm morally obligated to go against my vanguard at some point just to bother them.

[@moopersworthninjason42nd81]

You're not unique, we all like to push the bald people's buttons

[@Icebuerger4016]

Crow is definitely a Hunter Vanguard as he’s making decisions without the other two leaders XD

[@DavidWilliams-z6v]

@@Icebuerger4016 agreed. As a hunter from D1 and literally only a hunter. We kinda do what we want. A little renegade if you will. But we'll see it through.

[@silverthehero1295]

Titans won’t think it through and Warlocks need to…experiment to test for the right course.

[@crazytalk8120]

As a fellow Hunter...I agree.

[@SteelShad0w_]

On the Eramis therapy while imprisoned thing: I interpreted that dialogue as a cheeky nod to Eramis almost comically not trusting anyone. I interpreted as she genuinely didn't understand the concept of a therapist and thought it was a psychological tactic to gain info for the Vanguard. I found that dialogue of hers on the matter pretty funny honestly

[@tommysagemar]

@@SteelShad0w_ yup me to. Laught out loud here 🤣🤣

[@iponce2]

Destiny doesn't really do the "alien misinterprets human customs" all that heavily, so i thought it was fine too. Her perspective makes a little bit of sense, you don't get old doing what she does without assuming everyone's trying to get you

[@Gonzo9796]

I definitely feel like Eido releasing Eremis was totally on brand with what we've done before. Like we've made so many deals similar to this one that it didn't even phase me.

[@NewtypeSeiji]

I think that was my favourite seasonal/episodic cutscene they've ever put out. My jaw hit the floor when the Ketches came out of warp speed and the camera panned to Riis under assault from the Black Fleet with that hymn playing. Cinema.

[@tommysagemar]

Totally agree. Goosebumps

[@art_7151]

Yeah that came completely out of no where, and holy shit was that good. Surprised given it's usually the animated ink blot cutscenes in seasons, like with Splicer when we got the Eliksni version of the legend of the Saint.

[@KennyisLB]

I wouldn't say that is Riis. That's a Vex machined planet. So would say it's possibly during the long drift. Since the Elinski had encounters with Vex before it is possibly some compressed memory of the Whirlwind events as the Echo is looking back/forward singing/calling for connection. The fact the Pyramid/Grim/Shadow Leigon sort of following whatever Echo like they have with Fikrul during Act 1/2 and this of following is shown at end of the cutscene as sorta breaking.

[@submachinegun5737]

@@KennyisLBThat wasn’t vex terraforming, that was the witness doing that, remember the cutscene in the final shape where the witness does something similar but the traveler reverses it

[@OutlawLotus]

@@submachinegun5737this.

[@NegaturArgumentum]

Keeping Skolas's body around for potential future use does seem to me very much like something Mara would do.

[@ivanreyes371]

Vanguard did it with Savathuns body after witch queen

[@vitorlourencolemosdasilva7596]

@@ivanreyes371 because she was a light bearer. If they destroyed her body, Immaru could bring her back next second But I agree that keeping Skolas body is something that Mara would do

[@sirwolfe710]

Throughout the latter part of the story I was like "My guardian wouldn't do this. I don't agree with this, I don't want to do this"

[@fbnmanny9320]

Agreed

[@horrorfan117]

Weird. I had the opposite thought. "My Guardian has to do this. We're at a dead end. There's no other leads. Mithraxx must live."

[@iamboringvideos6832]

I just exist

[@redfalcon8062]

Meanwhile my ass was thinking about my Guardian, ducking and diving between cover trying to get to Eramis' cell. Everyone else sees him and thinks he's crazy. And on top of that, he's humming the Mission Impossible theme while doing this.

[@markricheard1870]

Despite what Joe Blackburn says, this game isn’t an RPG. An RPG would give you the option to fist-bump Nimbus, it would give you the option to free Eramis, not force you to do these things. And oddly enough the D1 writers were aware of this ludonarrative dissonance. My favorite Destiny 1 Grimoire card is the one where a Ghost Posessed by the Witness in the Black Garden speaks to a Guardian “You are a Dead Thing, made by a Dead power, in the Shape of the Dead. All you will ever do is k!ll.” Because it’s true. We never had any choices in this game, and the D1 writers knew that. It’s a self-aware critique almost on the level of “Would you kindly?”

[@maniacalcoast2742]

you scared THE FUCK out of me when you said "Even the spider in his last moments when he's talking to us at the end of Act 2..." I thought he died sacrificing himself for Eido and spider dying would have made me tweak in ways that can only be compared to when rasputin died.

[@liuser]

i literally went to look up "destiny 2 spider death" because i'm not playing the game anymore and thankfully everything was just dialogue about his and mars's beef

[@JohnMasterCheif]

XD whoops. nah, he just meant the Spider is the last person we interact with before the Act ends

[@vidiarbolcaido]

I think Eido's decision came more from desperation than naivety. That's the whole vibe I got from the Fieldworks lore, so I can understand why the Guardian assisted with Eramis "escape". It clear she's grasping at straws for anything tha might help her father. Freeing Eramis felt in part to me because Eido believes in the good inside Eramis and that would in turn also help her cure Mithrax in the long run.

[@mitchelldondlinger1876]

I don’t think Erasmis stil sees herself as an enemy of house light, she wants her people to continue but feels she cannot go with them. She states plenty of times that she expects to be executed and basically gave herself up for her people to integrate into house light.

[@bestsynth4102]

Which is absolutely a fucking tragedy! The ONE person who could save the Eliksni species, and she had to face down the Great Machine’s new pets and Misraaks the Bootlicker!

[@akuma_saint]

One way of showing how bad it would have gotten would have been to change the fallen patrols on each destination change from Fallen to Scorn.

[@Devmode_Nunchaku]

It would also be great if they reflected the changes happening to Nessus too

[@miscompile]

​@@Devmode_Nunchaku thats too much of an ask for bungie unfortunately

[@iponce2]

I feel stupid I didn't think of this myself. Not cause ego, but cause it makes perfect sense. Could have been gradual too. Act 1 some public events are scornified. Act 2 some fallen v scorn fights in patrol areas. Act 3 scorn everywhere the fallen once were, save maybe Europa cause house salvation are strong enough to put up a fight. Would have been mega cool. Destiny: almost good.

[@art_7151]

I was thinking a sneak attack in the market of the Last city could have been a good way. Fikrul somehow smuggles a Revenant Baron in, who converts some of the local Eliksni who we have to fight, and it's a surprise upon landing at some point in the story. Could also serve nicely if Mithrax tries and fails to aid the defense and further slips into madness, and Eido, after a MASSIVE close call decides to release Eremis.

[@bakedstingray7510]

I very much agree that my guardian wouldn’t have freed Eramis. However, I’m not sure if it’s just the way I played through the story and fieldwork, but Eido’s choice made perfect sense to me. She’s been getting increasingly desperate and she’s grasping at straws to help Mithrax, and all the one-to-one chats she had with eramis in the past have given her some blinders that she can put on when she feels like she has no other options to turn to. Plus Eramis being willing to come quietly in the beginning of this season prolly helped her seem more cooperative. Eido’s choice didn’t sound like naïveté to me as much as desperate and poorly founded hope from someone who has been consistently failing and feels like she has no other recourse.

[@bakedstingray7510]

Also I would do literally anything for Eido cause she’s the best so I happily freed Eramis as a player😂

[@autumnalHalcyon]

The ONLY reason it would be in character for my guardian is because of what happened just before that, where mithrax is has gotten bad enough to seemingly threaten them vis a vis "you will answer for this failure", which IMMEDIATELY had my guardian on edge. At this point the tonics aren't working, my guardian had ties to the eliksni pre-rez that makes them have a visceral need for there to be hope of coexistence with them post-rez, and now the kell of that co-existing house is threatening them. Given eido's speech on europa about setting aside their vengeful feelings toward eramis, and even before this, my guardian reluctantly agreed that it's better for eramis to be left alive than ended, like my guardian would've wanted. And now Eramis would feel like a close-at-hand means of potentially saving mithrax and the other eliksni trapped by fikrul. Plus the added bonus of "if you make a move to run or betray us i actually will fucking end you" is icing on the cake.

[@TheSCIOnce]

We’ve made deals with Mara and Savathun, we’ve wielded darkness and more. I am not bothered nor surprised by Eido choosing to put trust in Eramis. She’s up against a wall and out of ideas, so what were the alternatives?

[@FK74396]

Exactly, it isn’t like we haven’t made some extreme risks like creating our own Thorns or going through with Cayde’s plan to enter the Dreadnaught

[@joaorugeri9885]

Honestly, to me, it read as the apex of eido's desperation. She wants her father to live, she needs her people to survive, and theres just nothing else she can do. Its a insane move to try to save a loved one.

[@doctorreed_]

i agree that eido wanting what she wants makes sense, but that doesnt mean i agree WITH what she wants

[@mrsmi1ey]

@@joaorugeri9885 there's also an extremely dark and dramatic exchange between eido and her dad in one of the research side quests. it feels like he's having a panic attack, and he yells at his own daughter... it's pretty frightening, and i kinda wish that was part of the main story. so yeah i totally get it.

[@elseggs6504]

​@@FK74396 The Dreadnaught was a suicide mission. Releasing someone that has had and continues to spit on any offered hand is just stupid

[@haldenlith]

Honestly, I wasn't surprised by Eido's plan. You're right, she's not dumb, BUT, she has shown to be exactly like a very particular reckless Awoken who is now Hunter Vanguard. She's headstrong and reckless like Crow, in my opinion, and just like Crow, she is prone to not so great ideas born out of a reckless naïveté when she gets an idea in her head. Let us not forget that she ran off by herself to fetch one of the relics during Season of Plunder. I had a feeling she was going to try and bust Eramis out the second she started showing irritation at Eramis being imprisoned to start with, and that feeling grew as she grew more irritated and desperate with each Fieldwork mission. My only complaint is I honestly would've rather stumbled upon her having released Eramis rather than us helping, because yeah, that did feel a little odd (though my Guardian would've done it out of sheer "you're going to do it anyway, so I might as well" resignation). Given her outburst at Crow earlier in the act, I expected her to take agency and just do things herself out of "None of you are doing enough" frustration.

[@thedarknesscallingme]

I reckon the voice in the shard belongs to Chelchis

[@ArcherJLady]

That was my thought as well

[@DaSlimyGoat]

I assumed that Chelchis was the Herald of Finality in the Salvations edge raid due to her staying back during the whirlwind. I also think Variks would have recognized her voice due to her being one of the major Kells during that time.

[@Icebuerger4016]

@@DaSlimyGoatI take it to Variks being really old since it’s not established if Eliksni can have some kind of dementia. I also heard it’s Athrys, Eramis’s mate.

[@manuelb5466]

​@@Icebuerger4016 I figured she was still alive since Eramis left the system to find her before The Final Shape

[@Noblesix84]

I can't say for certain of course, but I want to believe the singer is Eramis' mate, and that the song will play a part in it. Maybe, now that she's free, she'll make a go at getting her hands on the Echo, but when she hears that song something changes in her, and either she decides to help Eido, or ends up helping us directly. It's also possible she ends her own life or dies some other way and becomes the first Fallen Lightbearer.

[@ioannisdellios4099]

My thoughts too.

[@Icebuerger4016]

That would be so sad since Eramis sent her mate and children away to specifically avoid The Witness and it ends up taking them and they become the Echo 🥺

[@Noblesix84]

@Icebuerger4016 I feel like The Witness likely had information on everyone that served it and knew how to hurt them. We saw this before when they turned old House Salvation leaders into Scorn when she failed before.

[@UltraLG2444]

@@Noblesix84 my main issue with this is that we know the echoes are based on the memories of those related to the witness, the hive, and any disciples who destroyed their races, their cultures, their people's. The echo of command is the memory of Te'Qal of the Qugu people. And Arthrys, while old enough, was not someone who died during the Whirlwind, and most certainly wouldn't have been someone that the witness or anything serving under it would have an interest in. However, I think there is an eliksni with that potential, that being Chelchis. We know that Chelchis personally stood against Oryx, and still acts as a powerful memory for the eliksni, being the reason many of them were able to escape Riis during the whirlwind. And, with recent lore from The Garden-Way revealing that Chelchis was actually female, it's quite possible that the dirge was one she created to help the eliksni escape.

[@Noblesix84]

@UltraLG2444 I do see where you're coming from, it's a very good point, however I would argue that The Witness or one of his agents, even if they didn't know where she was or were able to reach her, would have had interest in her. In previous seasons we've seen The Witness turn former leaders of House Salvation into Scorn in order to spite and/or punish Eramis for her failures. If he's willing to do that then I absolutely believe they would use Arthrys against Eramis if they had the ability to do so.

[@Nihlus233]

I disagree. She's DESPERATE and wants to save her father so she'll do anything. She also has a soft spot for Eramis already.

[@MogGamer821]

I absolutely agree

[@tommysagemar]

Was about to say the same and sure us doing it is a bit weird but we belive in her to is my headcanon plus that we see her pain with her father screaming shut up to her...

[@tommysagemar]

Was about to say the same and sure us doing it is a bit weird but we belive in her to is my headcanon plus that we see her pain with her father screaming shut up to her...

[@aeloswindrunner]

Indeed, seeing loved ones suffer like that can make you feel powerless, and not think as clearly as you might otherwise

[@Daemonic6]

And consequences? She letting free one of the enemies of humanity which tries to destroy Traveler, made army of stasis users, taking hostages. So she free this thing and she as daughter of Kell just betrayed Vanguard(same as you as guardian), it can go to cancelling of pack and start of new war with fallens.

[@Th4tOn36uy]

I like Eido’s plan, its super dumb but what else does she have left? Its just another notch on our guardians belt of “really bad ideas that hopefully have good results”

[@LifelessTooth]

I've said it a couple times, but Eido truly is the Destiny equivalent of the Steven Universe "It's ok guys, he said he's sorry!" meme

[@mrsmi1ey]

for a bit there i thought byf was just going to gloss over how incredible that cutscene was, but i'm glad he recognized it at the end. this wasn't just an all-timer for destiny, it was all-timer for bungie in general. just absolutely spectacular!

[@christophergarland7936]

Gotta be Athrys in the Echo. Eramis needs a moment of character development, and the revelation that the Witness got to her family that she thought was alive for all these centuries might be the tipping point. Maybe I’ve been playing the game too long, but I can sense a twist coming with how we decided to let her go after Fikrul herself for the next 6 weeks. It’s been hammered home so much that she won’t change that I’m now convinced that she will. The song being a “Whirlwind dirge” implies it was written after the fact, during the Long Drift when Chelchis was already dead/taken. We know that Athrys tended to sing to hatchlings, so she has the talent and possibly knew the song the Echo is singing. If it is indeed Athrys, I can imagine Eramis will die in Act 3’s climax, either fighting Fikrul or protecting Eido from Nezarec when he finally takes control of Mithrax. Her house has been gutted by Fikrul and the Witness, and her family is long dead. She hasn’t got anything left to live for.

[@ruthlesslistener]

The one downside to that is that Variks didn't recognize the voice singing, and he was a close friend of Athrys

[@vitorlourencolemosdasilva7596]

​@@ruthlesslistener most people are thinking it is Chelchis, as she is seeing singing to Irrah and is the one that faced Oryx while letting the Eliksni flee from the Black Fleet.

[@vitorlourencolemosdasilva7596]

What I think will happen: Either Éramis or Mithrax will die somehow. Probably killed by Fikrul. Who survive will become the bearer of the echo. Remember that Variks that the Echo is seeking old Strength. And who die may become a light bearer. Remember that the prophecy of the Kell of Kells tell of a Eliksni that will have the light from the Traveler.

[@jcpenny6310]

@@vitorlourencolemosdasilva7596 I think also if it is Chelchis, if Bungie wants to finally establish lore for the Herald of Finality, it would make perfect sense that it would be Chelchis as we know that they were a singer as well and as some people have speculated. However, I find it odd that Variks would never had "heard" Chelchis considering both of their positions at the time.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

The Dirge already existed before the Whirlwind. Its likely It gained more use during the Whirlwind, but Chelchis sang it before the Whirlwind.

[@cobeyware1]

Going off the point you made about showing the things going on like the army of scorn growing, why don't we get Red War style cutscenes anymore showing us the story as it evolves like the scenes with the speaker and ghaul? It's like they don't give us anything unless our guardian is there present in the scene unless it's one of those sketched throwback

[@MasterCJ117]

To be fair, Eramis DID save Eidos life(Season of Plunder if I remember right), so she, possibly blindly, does see that Eramis has good in her. Also I prefer what Crow(I think) said about Eido, she's optimistic, not naive. On top of that, she's desperate, her Father is suffering, and not in the 'wasting away' kinda way that most stories do, but in the cursed, much more violent and aggressive, saying things she would never expect to hear out of his mouth, kinda way, and idk about you, but any time I've heard my parents say something I'd never expect out of their mouths, it's a SHOCK, especially for someone as kind as Eido who's (mostly) always had words of kindness or support from her father, and some could argue "She knows he doesn't mean it, it's the curse talking" sure, but, she also didn't know that her father was a notorious pirate who did HORRIBLE things at some point, so now there's doubt, especially hearing it in his voice "What if what he's saying are his inner thoughts...". I do however agree that it's stupid to include us in that choice, sure, many of the players would agree with her and free Eramis, I certainly do, but mostly because I know she did most of her harm because she was afraid of the Witness, and now I'm thinking "I killed the thing you feared, don't be stupid..." Oh and, I'm pretty sure Eramis is just kinda done and defeated, she's been through so much, I think it's all finally sunk in, every time the Eliksni make progress, some huge bad thing happens to kick them 2 steps back, and she doesn't want to help less because we're her enemy, and more because she's just lost hope. Also, if you go and check, she's still in prison... thought that was pretty funny.

[@IvoryTempestCandleOfStories]

Being as sympathetic as I am, especially for suffering, demoralized people, I’ve come to acknowledge that you’ve highlighted the reason I support Eramis so much. I easily wish the best for people when I feel bad for them, and Eramis is where I truly began that sentiment. Back when I had no idea whether or not she’d survive the Witness, I’d cry inside, just over the image of her dying alone, cold and sad, regretting everything, hopelessly staring into the darkness, believing there never was any hope. No one deserves that, not in the slightest way. (Edit: Not sure if this makes it weird, but I used to fantasize about singing her to sleep. It’s the most I could imagine doing for her……my compassion is a defining characteristic of my personality.)

[@ruthlesslistener]

I think that the issue with Eido's perceived naiive choice re: Eramis's release is that she's apparently been extensively talking with her since her capture...but we've never really heard those conversations. There's some fieldwork dialogue and one onslaught conversation, and that's it. Offhand mentions about Eramis coming around to her POV and her helping to hash out tonic recipes only goes so far when we don't actually know how those conversations went, or how long they've gone on for. Again, it might have felt less stupid if we had the original weekly pacing- bc then that would mean that she's been talking with Eramis for weeks on end, and does have an actual grasp on her intentions- but it doesn't feel like that's happened bc everything is packed together I def. think that the act got shafted by the new pacing, but at the same time, I'm pretty bummed that they haven't really fixed the issue with seasonal storylines going too fast and not fleshing stuff out enough. Act 1 at least had more fieldworks, bugged as they are, but Act 2 feels oddly barren in terms of exposition and loretabs. The Echoes format should allow for more story at a better pace, but it really doesn't feel like that's happening

[@scottbelschner3515]

I think it's chelchis. The slayer, baron lore even talks about chelchis singing

[@sambojorquez8436]

Completely disagree about Eido’s plan. The entire Eliksni population in sol is at risk and Skolas’ return likely means the violence will match that of the reef wars. As distasteful as Eramis has been her motivation has always been rooted in Eliksni emancipation. She is also uniquely qualified as being the only one who might recognize the Echos voice. Eido placing her trust in Eramis is not only a sound strategy but also a microcosm of the idea that ALL Eliksni must work together in this dire set of circumstances to achieve lasting peace.

[@coralevolve6468]

Based on the new major field mission, Missraks isn’t home anymore. Gonna start calling him Nezarec, Kell of Nightmares.

[@horrorfan117]

Hmmm.... If I might make a suggestion. Fuse their names. Missarek, Kell of Fear Nezaraks, Kell of Torment Nessarecs, Kell of Whirlwinds

[@coralevolve6468]

@@horrorfan117 Nezareks, Kell of Torment it is. Nice!

[@devinthierault]

​@@coralevolve6468dear God that's insane. Splicer themed exotic for Warlocks please!

[@Fier07112]

From all the character development of Eramis it makes sense. We know she cares about her ppl. She does what she does for the betterment of them. Now Fikrul is a threat to that. To turn all of the fallen into undead lead by Fikrul? I already thought Eramis would have a sizable part in helping. Plus Eramis and Eido have a unique relationship. It’s like Eido’s innocence is changing her to be compassionate. Perhaps reminding Eramis of her old self before all the fighting! It’s not shocking or disjointed (or even out of left field). But extra dialogue and cutscenes could definitely help.

[@vithederg]

honestly, i think her dialogue exchange with crow towards the middle of the act was the best part of the whole "eido freeing eramis" part of that. crow confronting eido's logic with the logic that most of us have, and her choosing to free eramis anyway was at least enough for me to hear her out.

[@wildrose7648]

I really feel like a lot of the issues with seasons boil down to the team not having enough time and resources to cook. Because of that, narrative beats are missing, presentation is watered down, activities feel samey, and mistakes fall through the cracks due to not having enough time to check. Another possibility is that some of the contexulization needed could have been cut and put into the Field research stuff, which are optional for the story.

[@Catalyst375]

I believe the voice has three candidates: Chelchis, or one of the two Slayer Barons we saw in the new lore from the Revenant - the apprentice Irrha, and Baron Kiiraskes. Back in Echoes, the identity of the person whose Memory formed the Echo of Command was all but broadcasted with the Dynasty lore book. Dynasty was about Te'Qal and the Qugu, and he was name-dropped in-game by Te'Qal. Now, The Garden-Way lore features Slayer Baron Kiiraskes, her apprentice Irrha, and Chelchis. It could be any of the three, but I'd say the best bet is Chelchis. She is known in the old Destiny 1 lore as a Kell whose House stood against Oryx and the Hive to allow the Eliksni to escape the Great Whirlwind and is potentially the reason why the Eliksni survived and escaped. At the end of Garden-Way, Irrha reacts to Chelchis singing a song, a song he describes as "a song for star-sailors headed out into the dark between worlds". What better song to become a Whirlwind dirge? What better identity for the Echo seeking a worthy Kell of Kells than Chelchis, Kell of House of Stone? The lore says Chelchis fought Oryx, but it wouldn't surprise me if, in her final moments, the Witness claimed her. That said, Variks doesn't recognize the singer, so either he never personally knew Chelchis, or it might end up being Kiiraskes or Irrha, since there is little doubt the last of the old Slayer Barons would have fought the Darkness directly.

[@GhostSniper1144]

To edios scheme I had one quote cross my mind and might have crossed hers for this “Let’s be bag guys.”-drifter

[@skeletor8951]

Given how we learned background for the Qugu in Echoes in the Dynasty lore book, I'd bet MONEY the Echo is one of the Eliksni featured in the Garden-Way lore book this season- the former Slayer Baron Kiiraskes or her apprentice, Iirha.

[@Saxm13]

Some things that come to mind with regards to Eido: -eramis saved both their lives + every other mortal enemy in the galaxy coming together to fight the witness, completely changing eidos world view of enemy/friend and learns of eramis/misraaks shared history -Eido is pragmatic, methodical, and very progressive for an elixsni, and the idea of old grudges getting in the way of saving someone she loves would be extremely frustrating. Like the obvious solution is right there but she can't use it because of the stubborn pride of old warriors -eido's father is dying, and desperation leads to reckless action, anyone whos had to watch a family member decay in a horrible way can attest to turning to irrational methods of coping/treatment when their hands are seemingly tied Eidos choices might not be the "smartest" or "safest", but they're definitely relatable in a situation like hers

[@wobbbiy]

I will say, Eramis willingly accepting capture is her way of seeking help from them. She knows she can't do this alone, she has abandoned her old ways, but she can't fully let go and fully trust guardians understandably. She, like the other ancient eliksni know Eido is their future. So she's inclined to align herself with her. I do think we are seeing Eramis change, even if it is subtly.

[@darthcerebus]

Not to mention that her mistrust of Guardians is kind of half the Eliksni's fault in the first place. "How much of my people's blood is on your hands?" Yeah, kind of what happens when you try to wipe us out rushing to conclusions after JUST getting to this system.

[@horrorfan117]

@@darthcerebus Well as we saw from Mithraxx's mother in Season of Plunder that jumping to violence worked both ways. Humanity had also just survived a catastrophe where aliens from beyond their system had decimated their lives. Unfortunately fear and paranoia had permeated both sides to the point that it made it impossible for the more friendly groups of Humans and Eliksni to ever meet. Initial hostile contacts would poison the views of both. Setting them against one another for years. I'm kinda glad Destiny Rising seems to be allowing at least one group of Eliksni to have met Humans on peaceful terms after the collapse.

[@crazytalk8120]

What if the echo is Eramis' wife? Remember that lullaby? To my knowledge, thats the most significant reference to singing we gave with the Fallen. And, releasing Eramis works for me, because I really, REALLY want to turn her into and intergalactic grease spot

[@NeonStar2]

the voice in the echo is chelchis, kell of the house of stone. The house sacrificed itself to hold off the witness's forces so the other houses could escape Riis. Chelchis even fought oryx

[@MW2proification]

Honestly, I can trust her based on how she is portrayed as a tsundere. Someone who acts tough, but is really a softy on the inside. Another thing to point out is. Eramis’ hesitation in Seraph where she took a moment before activating the Warsats against the Traveler. in there is some doubt in her grudge. I feel that she should hear the song, perhaps it will remind her of her mate Arthrys and will reaffirm her own stance to officially declare her allegiance to us.

[@digunder14]

15:45 i find it neat that we finally via the echo get to see some of the whirlwind and of riis like visually instead of just words

[@smallj900]

Yeah I really didn’t feel like freeing her was that out of place imo. Just felt out of nowhere cause of how fast the content went by, i have zero problems with freeing her.

[@Nadiki]

Throughout the latter part of the story I was like “My guardian would absolutely do this, I want to do this”. Best case scenario Eramis helps us and we save our homie Mithrax, worst case scenario she betrays us and we get to turn her into a popsicle again.

[@Myahster]

"And we all agree to pretend like Ikora doesn't already know." lmao

[@ODeadThingMine]

Well, I think, We know Eido well enough to know that she would release Eramis from jail with or without us. At least going along with her plan means we can be there to protect her. Additionally, she does know her own people better than us. She is her own person. She will make her own mistakes. That being said, We don't need to release Eramis from jail to access her knowledge on tonics. She can talk to us from behind the barrier. We don't need her to make the tonics.

[@gears004]

Tbh the first thing that came to my mind when it came to the voice in the Echo was Athrys, which i guess would be why Eramis is also being freed and maybe she herself finding out and recognizing the voice. Just a maybe (Sorry for bad english, not my first language)

[@Volumixen]

During the Major Fieldwork on the Moon, Eramis speaks to Eido, and there is a speech where you hear Eramis chastise Eido for "doubting herself", and her apology would not be to Eramis, or Mithrax. Her people would be destroyed, and the only person she would be apologizing to would be to is herself; and she wouldn't be able to accept that forgiveness.

[@Drunk_n_Sailr]

I'm gonna cry if it turns out to be Taniks

[@feralprocessor9853]

As of today, I kinda hope that Fikrul's Echo is somehow the soul of Chelchis, the finale Kell of Stone. Even if I was expecting it to be her, I'll still be dumbstruck that the defenders of Sol get to interact with an revenant entity of the Whirlwind.

[@NEWGHOST9]

I honestly see no issue with the releasing eramis plot, dont think it came out of nowhere and it made logical sense to me

[@aeloswindrunner]

I think much of the issues come from compression. Skolas makes sense as a play from Fikrul, by making Skolas beholden to him it is a strong argument for Fikrul being the Kell of Kells

[@aves4311]

Honestly, I've been banking on an Eramis redemption arc for a while now, and this feels like the setup for that

[@IvoryTempestCandleOfStories]

Your point on Eido’s decision was on point, and logical, it was right. But, BUT, since I am a firm supporter of her redemption arc, and want to give her every chance available, I was perfectly fine with what I did in that jail cell, releasing her, I mean…..you didn’t hear me compassionately singing her lullabies….you didn’t hear that either….. (Edit: @Silverolivia down there in the comments actually has a good point on the Byf’s Eliksni opinion. I am a follower of that line of thinking, as a fellow Eliksni enthusiast!) Also, the Nezarec stuff going on this Episode is badass! Need I even mention the cutscene, which was perfect!

[@Entropy_91]

I'm just assuming that any potential reason Eido has to actually trust Eramis beyond naivety is revealed in the dialogue you're supposed to get from completing Fieldwork missions. Dialogue which is now inaccessible to me because you can't redo them on alts. Thanks, Bungo.

[@reubenisrael9137]

I can see and understand the points you’ve made about Eido, but I do feel that they have played up her desperation and fear of losing her father. She’s at her best when her father is healthy and is there to guide her. But he’s dying and she’s young, it makes sense that she would do risky and dangerous things just to save him. Just my take, I’m probably wrong or maybe reading too much into it.

[@Silverolivia]

Again, I know I come in here and say this every time Byf makes an eliksni video, but dude.... You're not an eliksni fan and it shows. There's SO MUCH narrative stuff you left out. Like all the clues as to why Eramis is turning over a new leaf. There's so much information about what the Echo is, it's literally in front of your face. Watch these videos makes me want to be a KZbinr just to sit down and go through all the Eliksni lore, one tab and voice line at a time, so that I can SHOW you guys what's really going on with them. Show all the times that Bungie has rewritten the lore to fit a new narrative, or where there are things they haven't changed that show the clear path of the ACTUAL choices of who the Echo will end up in the hands of. The last line in this video really hit all this home for me. Byf is excited for Hive nonsense and is just waiting through this eliksni based story so that he can get to the Oryx plot line. And it hurts because I ADORE the eliksni and have obsessively read all their lore tabs, listened to all the voice lines, and if my memory was better I would insert myself as a lore daddy on them lol

[@IvoryTempestCandleOfStories]

Venextron actually does quite a lot of that “Showing you where the plots and lore was changed for a different narrative (he’s very vocal about the Nezarec side of this)”. You might’ve even gotten that from him, can’t say for certain (obviously). I support this opinion! As a fellow Eliksni supporter, and enthusiast! And an Eramis fanboy in particular!

[@TheAntWatcher]

My theory on the voice is that it might be the kell of house stone. Chelchis.

[@LegateGrant]

While it makes her seem a bit dumb, I just took it as her being so desperate to save her father, that she'd do anything to do so. But the compressed story definitely impacts this.

[@asolem2266]

In regards to Eido's "scheme" Eido is growing desperate and frustrated with her continued failure to cure her father, which is likely impacting her decision making skills. So this is just a guess, but I belive that Eido's decision to do "Jail Break" Eramis is partially done for the reasons stated by the characters, that Eido is naive and hopeful. And partially done for the hope that Eramis's knowledge can help Eido create a Tonic to cure her father. This isn't the first time I have heard a character's decisions being critizied because we know they should know better. And it isn't the first time I feel that people don't consider the "emotions" involved into consideration when they analyze a character's actions

[@optimusprime2890]

15:37 I got another $20 USD that says the voice of the Echo is Eramis’s dead wife.

[@bitchboiz6561]

It might be Chelkits (I spelled that so wrong lol) the kell who stood against oryx during the whirlwind

[@paragonflash8937]

Man idk if its just me but the entire time Eido was talking about breaking Eramis out i had this really bad stomach ache telling me. "Eido its not gonna be good Eido something bad is gonna happen to you. Edio everyone is telling me to keep you safe and look out for you. Something bad is coming".

[@GXTnite_Lan]

I choose to trust Eido on freeing Eramis, mainly because I believe that Eramis is useful in helping us, AND helping Eido to become a leader worthy to be a Kell (mainly teaching her that you cant just get thru life with being naive). I also believe that Eramis knows that there are bigger fish to fry.

[@dynojackal1911]

If the voice in the Echo of Riis isn't Chelchis of House Stone, then it may be another Kell, one who stayed to defend Riis regardless of how futile the effort seemed.

[@crowofdionysia6200]

The echo is specifically calling to eliksni unification which makes me think that it's someone nkt just singing about the repair of riis after the whirlwind, but probably talking about the prophecy itself. My theory is that its the voice of a member of house rain.

[@formerlyknownasmousecopp4367]

Skolas still has probably my favorite theme song in the entire franchise

[@Gnolletariat]

I think her plan makes sense. Eramis hasn't been a threat since Seraph. Her house is scattered, and relying on us for protection. Say she does betray is right now, what will she do, join fikrul? Deny our help? She can't stop us in a one on one and she won't kill Eido. I think it makes sense.

[@abyssal_beans]

My personal headcannon is that Eido’s decision is the culmination of the building pressure from weeks of chasing down one dead end after another and getting absolutely nowhere while Fikrul’s army continues to grow and her father‘s condition continues to deteriorate. She’s not stupid… she’s smart enough to recognise that the current approach was at best delaying the inevitable, and given how much pressure she was under, it makes sense that she came to the conclusion that our only hope was to put our faith in the only lead left. The issue is that there’s only so much emotionally coherent narrative you can cram into a trio of 1 to 2 hour long sessions (which even then are mainly gameplay) spread out intermittently over several months.

[@p_coomsy4690]

They should’ve had more fallen characters like mithrax that we fight besides and are named with dialogue and have them turn to scorn unwillingly so then we had to like put them down and it would actually be a bit sad rather than just fighting more scorn

[@Nadiki]

Like Halsiks from Plunder and Exscision? That would’ve been pretty sad ngl

[@honeysal]

6:20 I understood the therapy thing to be her misinterpreting Eido talking to her as some sort of bad thing since it made her feel bad, instead of it being a freeing and healing sort of thing. Might be wrong though, that's just how it read to me

[@aperezh]

I remember how during Season of the Splicer, the tower was getting more and more Vex-ified and, then Taken-ified. Those are the type of tools I would like Bungie to use to give us a better sense of scale of how important each conflict is.

[@seanmurphy7845]

The only issue I have with the idea of Eido claiming the Echo is that Eido isn’t a leadership figure. She’s emblematic of a positive future of the Eliksni but she’s already become dedicated to the role of Scribe. The claimant can only be Mithrax or Eramis. Considering his health and how hard Bungie are pushing an Eramis redemption, it’s going to be her. The question remains though if this will come with the title of Kell of Kells or if they’ll brush that off in some way, like Eramis using the echo to cure Mithrax satisfying the recognition aspect.

[@kylezundel9248]

Two speculatory pieces on who the voice could be. First is one that feels significant in the context of understanding one's past to know one's future, it could be Chelchis, Kell of Stone, who died defending Riis during the Whirlwind. It would explain their discontent with who possesses the echo now, a being who uses power similar to what powers were used to destroy Riis during the whirlwind, and many Elisnki, regardless of house, revere and worship her to this day. Second one is more difficult but it focuses on the aspect of Eido being the Kell of Kell apparent the story is making her out to be, it could be Inaaks, Mithrax's mother and the Kell of House of Wolves before Stolas. Inaaks story was a troubled one, we see many points in her story where the loss of Riis drives her further and further away from the graces of her people and her son, culminating in their conflict over the Relic of Nezerac where she assaulted him. We know she died at the hands of Korha, the Hollow, a captain from House Winter. Knowing dirges of the whirlwind invokes the same sort of shanties that the Fallen Pirates would come to sing, lamenting the loss of home. But where Inaaks refused Mithrax's ways of respecting the traveler despite the loss of Riis, I feel we will see a similar conflict between Mithrax and Eido, where Mithrax, burdened by his condition and uncertainty of the fallen's future, may begin to fall into behaviors similar to his mother, but I believe that if Mithrax were to hear the voice of his mother, the one who challenged his ideas and the new way of thinking he discussed, it would give him a moment of realization how close he is to becoming her, the one who would wound and belittle their child for having hope. In that moment, I believe, that while Mithrax may not understand Eido's thinking, his trust and faith in her would outweigh his own fear and he would give her his full backing and support. It would be a poingant moment where the old accepts the new and both work together toward a brighter future.

[@blooky7092]

I think yall are forgetting something. Eido is LITERALLY DESPERATE to save her father. Like, was i the only one that saw a desperate,inexperienced girl who wanted to save her father and after failing for like a month and seeing not only her people getting scorned but her father almost not beeing himself anymore. It's not that far-fetched that she wanted to free someone that A) saved her and her father before B) is really old and can have more intel on the situation. I thought it was the point that it felt kianda not rational. Ps to the skolas corpses, i think you were kinda looking too deep because i don't think it's the first time we see someone came back from literally nothing, and as you said in the video, Skolas (at least in universe) wasn't a nobody, they probably preserved his ramains somewhere. Sorry for the possible bad English.

[@DrStunJosh]

And next episode is when Byf says the dirge is being sung by Chelchis, Kell of Stone crying “Where is the Great Machine!”

[@elito7023]

My thoughts on Eido's decision to free Eramis is that it was largely a hail mary type thing, since she is watching Mithrax die slowly in front of her. That's a big emotional push

[@matthewdemers7600]

I imagine the structure of the narrative (if we were allowed to make meaningful choices that affected the story being told) would look a lot like a choose-your-own adventure book. We would all start on the same page and as time progresses we would make different choices and follow different paths, but we would all come to the same end page. This would at the very least give us the illusion of choice and give the story some replayability as the player could go back and make different choices and follow a different path. You could explain the different goings-on by saying the story beats not experienced by the player character are still progressing as a result of other fireteams (like the ones we usually hear about in the lore) doing story-related things.

[@jakeychanm.83]

Maybe the echo is Eramis’s mate from Riis? That’s why variks recognizes it. And feeling her from prison has set her up for redemption where she can change the eliksni back with the echo?

[@rynemiller1931]

My thing seeing the fleeing eliksni turning in real time made me excited because I thought oh this is how they incorporate onslaught into the last city map, start a zombie apocalypse effectively, cause a crisis of faith for all of the eliksni, they've never had a permanent home without problems and they have to go back to being spacefaring. Or have them try to establish themselves on the planets of the sole system adding new onslaught maps and everywhere running into fikrul leading into each act having more and more fights and less eliksni running out of time and options then we release Eramis and then let them fight and then lastly all out assault on fikrul cmon bungie I literally thought of this while at work

[@Trunksmad]

For whom the Echo sings to.... that is a good question. Oldest and might know is Eramis, for claiming she was on Riis when the whirlwind happen. Mithraxs mother might have sang it to him, and so he might be choosen.

[@BrettDesdin]

17:50 the past few videos you've been calling episode 3 "Heretic" but its actually called "Heresy"

[@twosuperdorks]

I was under the impression that Edio's decision to release Eramis was a sign of Nezarec's corruption worsening and making those around Mithrax more volatile.

[@feralprocessor9853]

Right off the bat, Eido be hardcore risking it for the biscuit.

[@EnderSh4dow]

I think a simple but better way to have handled the freedom of Eramis would’ve been to have crow go: “Alright Eido, since you truly believe this I’ll cut you a deal, Eramis is allowed to run tactical and do some support work and IF she does a good job, I’ll see to her freedom myself” instead of “okay fine do a prison break” would’ve allowed for some additional characterization for them in activity dialogue too to help build up that trust

[@Wakozi]

At this point, all the lore videos are just big question marks thrown in the direction of whoever is writing the story. And the community itself keeps repeating the same old sentence over and over again: Wait for a hive story to save the game.

[@joeramsay6269]

Reminder that the exotic mission for act 3 is called Kell’s Fall (no that’s not a leak or data mined thing, you can see it in game)

[@swolecole8899]

I also wanna point out how odd it is that we needed a pocket EMP to open eramis’ cell, as if the controls weren’t right there, or we don’t have arc abilities and could just short out the cell without it, idk I just thought it was so weird.

[@HollywoodJBlaq]

Honestly, my thoughts on the voice of the Echo is Eido. Hear me out…. You touched on 2 major things: Eido’s destiny as the leader of House of Light The echo searching for a new leader. An echo, by nature, is a sound being repeated. So if there is a sound from the echo, that means that the voice we hear is singing the same song. The echo is searching for its matching voice, as it deems them worthy of its power. As there is only 2 Eliksni female characters in the game, my money is on the Echo looking for Eido.

[@olympiaoshiadahail9216]

I believe we are on track to see the first Eliksni lightbearer--and I think whoever that Eliksni is will become Kell of Kells. Devotion. Bravery. Sacrifice.

[@AlexEatsCats]

Eido telling Crow that Eremis is his trophy was a total smack in the face. That's the most our of character dialogue I've heard in Destiny in years.

[@equinoxruinouseffigy7856]

1. You know when this scale was shown well? Oryx. You don’t need to show an army or give a big number to capture that feeling. You need it rooting itself in everywhere. You need to see moves being made and advances on all fronts. Bottom line, the open world need to change and host more revenant scorn shenanigans like with oryxs taken to really get the threat. 2. I feel like after the crisis with the scorn in the tangled shore, the awoken would absolutely quarantine the bodies of notable fallen. Caging the remains of a notable kell, certainly makes sense to me

[@Dragolee4]

Honestly, I could see the echo going in one of three directions, picking eido, Mithrax, or eramis. I have a feeling it’s going to pick eido, however I really personally hope it will be mithrax. He has turned his life around from his old ways, he still reveres the traveler, and has even been given speaker-like visions from the traveler, that tells me that he has been chosen by it, in some form at least. He has even been called kell of kells by at least Saint-14 if not others.

[@TheBatsquid]

The placement of the cutscene felt out if place, imo it shouldve come after the skolas fight, not after we rallied and begun the fight.

[@ioannisdellios4099]

Initially, I thought the game skipped the fight.

[@darthcerebus]

The fact it's IMMEDIATELY into the cutscene before it even shows Skolas in game and then resets your position in the arena, it's the weirdest place to put a "reveal" cutscene. Especially with the fact that it talks about the Echo and Fikrul directly multiple times and the song its singing. How is all this going on A SPLIT SECOND BEFORE A FIGHT

[@dustinmillar120]

If the fallen slowly disappeared in the game and replaced with scorn (in the cosmodrome for example) would be a cool way of seeing the impact of the conversations

[@z--r0]

Imagine the impact there would've been if when we went in Riis Reborn the friendly eliksni around us suddenly started transforming and attacking us right as we start passing them.

[@wolffang-vz2ty]

for me personally, I didn't agree with it but rationalized it as my guardian going along with Eido as a favor/giving her a chance to play out a big decision since she IS likely to be the next eliksni leader and since he knew she would force the issue one way or another. at least this way hes standing with them ready to turn Eremis inside out if she tries anything. plus this isn't the first time we've given the benefit of the doubt to someone we really probably shouldn't

[@Rivenisthebestdragon]

This is who I think is voice of the echo. I think the it could be any of the previous Kell of Kells but Idk eliksni lore off the top of my head. Also Eido is just the sweetest scribe ever.

[@digunder14]

i still feel that if we can persuade the echo to our side it may allow us to have it persuade maya's echo of command to our side or otherwise make it more reasonable for us to claim it from her rather than her slipping away with it

[@aceellis1660]

I don't know if I agree with the scale of the witness because the black fleet over the years the pyramid ships being in cutscenes definitely amped up the scale and then basically deleting the planets out of the system and them seeing the ships in the sky boxes in the arrivals and all of the battles of taken, vex in that season. Then on top of all that you later had parts of hive, Calus' black fleet, house salvation, then the rest of the dread faction all being controlled under the witness. And the sheer scale of its attack when the first trailer for the final shape came out.

[@alditocastelo7463]

I would be actually suprise if in frontiers we can ask the gunsmith about the history of all the perks or perks that have their history of being made like in game lore like Adaptive munitions or vorpal weapon or even chill clip like The Possible description of the manufacture of the perks and implemented into the weapon

[@pandaell1029]

I’ve actually been liking the story a lot recently. The cutscene at the end of the act went so unnecessarily hard.