Mystery: Fixing Discolored Voodoo 2 VGA Output (Creative CT6670)

[@tomh.648]

02:30 -- There's something about PCB repair set to 1980s synth music that makes me feel good. I've been bouncing around your channel for an hour, now, learning new stuff - Definitely worth a sub - you've certainly earned it.

[@bitsundbolts]

Thank you!

[@ricargoncalves]

Those VGA cables were so annoying! Always making weird colors. I remember the first thing to do when I sat in front of the computer was to get back up again to reach the VGA cable and wiggle it, until the colors were correct. Specially at school, where everybody used the PCs.

[@bitsundbolts]

Yes, they were annoying. At least they kept your PC away from the wall which improves airflow 😂.

[@DerKlemm-Crafter]

It's the same with SCART :D

[@bitsundbolts]

Uh, I had my fair share of dislike for this unsymmetrical connector with the flat pins

[@lesar23]

That is the reason I use vga cable to CRT on voodoo 2 SLI and agp card with DVI on another monitor. Like this I don't need loop cable.

[@pongisan3658]

Great video diagnosing the issue! Good to see another Voodoo2 card brought back to it's former glory. :)

[@bitsundbolts]

Yes indeed!

[@unimportant5122]

The 3384 is a analog CMOS switch that is used to switch the VGA output between the VGA input (passtrough) or the Voodoo's own DAC when in 3dfx mode. It's used as a solid state switch in stead of relays like some other cards, like the original Orchid Voodoo 1 boards, did. Fun fact: That switch IC has a 25 ohm on resistance and VGA signals are 75 ohm impedance controlled, that's why Voodoo boards using this chip made the passed trough 2D video darker, which was a complaint some ppl had back in the day...

[@NielsHeusinkveld]

I do remember blacking out when buying my Creative Voodoo2 back in the day for 770 Dutch guilders. Maybe my parents went red, I don't fully recall..

[@tadeustad]

Good job with diagnosing and fixing the fault! Also, this tiny oscilloscope looks fascinating :)

[@bitsundbolts]

Thank you. Yes, that tiny oscilloscope is quite nice. Battery powered and good enough for hobby repairs like in this video. Btw, it is a FNIRSI 5012H.

[@Astfgl]

Ooh, low-melt solder is definitely something I'll have to keep in mind for future desoldering efforts. I don't have a hot air gun (yet) so right now any kind of multi-pin component that needs desoldering is a massive pain. I wasn't aware of this technique and it kinda looks like magic (like so many things in soldering when you see them for the first time!)

[@bitsundbolts]

When I saw someone use low melt solder the first time, I was shocked! It is like magic! Definitely a handy tool in certain situations

[@myne00]

You can get fairly ok hot air stations for under $100 btw

[@g4z-kb7ct]

2:10 I have fixed A LOT of arcade PCBs over the last 25 years with similar bad solder joints on QFP chips with items from one specific big arcade company and I have a theory about why so many QFP chips come loose or have dull solder. The problem happens due to the way they are prepared and reflowed at the factory. When the board is produced they pre-apply a small amount of (most likely lead-free) solder and afterwards apply some flux on the PCB pads of all SMD parts. The pick'n'place machine puts the parts in place on top of the (hard) solder and the sticky flux holds it in place then it goes through the re-flow oven. When the solder melts the parts should sink slightly due to surface-tension so all legs on all chips touch the PCB pads and that creates a good solder joint. I believe what happened on some PCBs is the temperature of the reflow oven was not set high enough or the time in the oven was not enough so in some cases the solder only just melted and the part was still sitting on top of the solder. Back then around 1995, Sony Playstation-based arcade games like Tekken, Soul Edge, Point Blank 2 etc were very popular so they were pumping out games as fast as possible. My guess is they sped up the soldering process but a bit too much resulting in boards that worked but with poor solder joints. 25-30 years later the chips just come loose by themselves due to operation heat or poor storage or both. This is why when doing any kind of SMD re-work (especially on large QFP parts with 0.5mm pin spacing) it is necessary to not add solder to PCB pads and placing parts on top then blasting with hot air and instead do it the correct way by putting the part flat on the bare PCB and add solder/flux later while holding the part down in place. It might seem obvious but there are still plenty of people (especially amateurs and some semi-professional youtubers too!) without proper understanding of soldering techniques and try to replace large QFP SMD parts (i.e. laptop Super-I/O chips etc) without wicking away all the solder first, then they have to go around the chip with a microscope looking for and fixing legs that are not soldered because they are sitting on top of a mountain of solder (LOL). It might be soldered but many of the legs have bad solder joints resulting in a very poor unprofessional soldering job and potential for legs to be either loose or just holding on by flux. Apologies for writing a book here but it was necessary to get the info across and hopefully people stop soldering the wrong way trying to think they are saving time by doing it that way. The reality is it actually takes longer when doing it the wrong way because they have to re-work their rework and fix loose legs. It's there in the videos I've seen and I can only laugh. As I always say, haste makes waste :-)

[@Brightraven]

I have a Voodoo 3 3000 with missing red, could be this bus switch chip! I searched google for this problem but there were no hits at all, so this video may be the only guide to this problem. Thank you so much for making it!

[@bitsundbolts]

Maybe also check this diode/transistor that seems to have a short in my card. It may absolutely be a similar issue and I hope this video helps you fix your card. Before I would remove the chip however, reflow the solder on this chip if you can. It may be as simple as a bad solder connection.

[@luborko]

Nice video, the usual quality. 👍😊 In 1998 when Voodoo 2 came out I was at Uni in Slovakia and it was pure unobtainium for me. Building a PC of that era is on my list. So, selling fixed GPUs is a good idea. Nice MABOs are hard to come by.

[@bitsundbolts]

I skipped 3dfx entirely. I had some budget ATI and nVidia cards later on. We somehow made it work without Voodoo power, but I do remember all those articles and benchmarks in magazines which made me want one of those cards. Over time, I'll bring more details regarding the hardware I'll sell.

[@DefenderOfBoston-yo2tl]

And here we are already, at the next level of diagnosis. Way to go, Alex! 👏 As compact and affordable as scopes have gotten by now, I really should get myself one of them too. I consider it a rite of passage, like owning a torque wrench, a hammer drill, a bench PSU, *an IR camera*... 😄 This bodes well for the revival chances of our burn victim. Buying it back in case you manage to revive it was my plan all along by the way. 😉

[@bitsundbolts]

Haha, thank you! I am thankful and happy for each new skill I acquire! It may give that Voodoo 2 a better chance to be revived... I just hope that a thermal camera and an oscilloscope is enough and I don't need advanced skills like voltage injection and a bench PSU (both I don't have 😂). I guess I should start working on this card soon as a vacation is planned in June somewhere in Europe. There will most likely be a stop in Germany too.

[@DefenderOfBoston-yo2tl]

​@@bitsundbolts Getting something valuable to work again and gaining a skill/experience in the process is definitely one of the more satisfying experiences. 😊 I would definitely recommend picking up a bench PSU, they are not expensive, extremely versatile (e.g. for battery charging or as a makeshift PSU for devices that lack the original power brick) and they synergize _really_ well with IR cameras for locating shorts (on devices that do not power up or should not be powered up due to the short). With a macro lens (which InfiRay graciously included with the P2 Pro they sent me), it is even possible to pinpoint, where exactly on a chip a short originates, which just blows my mind. That's great news that you will be travelling to Europe again in the near future! Would be awesome if we get to meet up again, regardless of the Monster II. 😉

[@emmettturner9452]

You can usually get away with a lot less of the low-melt solder alloy. :) Also, I flood the pads with fresh solder and wick with fresh wick TWICE before reinstalling the chip to make sure it’s all gone. I flood the chip legs and flick it off a few times while I have it off too. You want as little as possible to remain since you technically aren’t supposed to reuse a chip desoldered that way anyway (according to ChipQuik’s instructions at least). I’m sure it’s not the end of the world but I can imagine someone coming after me years later with no idea about the contaminated solder and wondering why the joints just keep failing (like Creative’s old solder?).

[@bitsundbolts]

Thanks for the hint. Yes, you are correct, I only wicked away the low-melt solder. I learn something new each time :)

[@illusionofmana_Personal]

I remember some voodoo powered arcades would have this issue. A family member use to manage a restaurant with one and we diagnosed the problem at the card too. They inconveniently recycled machine even though I asked for it 😓

[@bitsundbolts]

Ah, that's sad. I am sure such an old arcade machine is an eye catcher!

[@geremychubbuck3730]

Great job. Absolutely there is interest in purchasing your repaired equipment. 👍👍👍

[@bitsundbolts]

Thank you! Good to know that there's interest.

[@Constantin314]

impressive soldering skills you have, BuB, also...i like your VooDoo collection :)

[@bitsundbolts]

Thank you!

[@rodhester2166]

That was truly a great job.. cheers .. and thanks for saving another historic computer part.

[@bitsundbolts]

Thank you!

[@tony359]

Nice repair and well done with the scope! I now use low melt solder to remove ICs too. Hot air can often make a mess. Which flux are you using? It looks nice - and it's very clear.

[@bitsundbolts]

I bought a fresh batch or amtech flux from AliExpress. It may be rebranded/fake. However, it works very well. I bought flux a long time ago from the same shop and it was more yellowish and not that transparent. But both perform about the same. I like the new one more because it looks clear and clean!

[@tony359]

@@bitsundbolts ah interesting. I have some Amtech from what claims to be the official UK distributor and I don't remember being so clear! Amtech is the most copied flux on earth I guess! Not even Amtech knows if their flux is fake or not! :)

[@notgeekenough5670]

Awesome use of the oscilloscope! it ll be very useful in future repairs! Great work!

[@bitsundbolts]

Thank you and yes, I hope this oscilloscope will come in handy for future repairs!

[@harukaapl]

I've just got that Voodoo CT6670, awesome accelerator! Planing to buy second one for SLI. If you are planning to replace socket try avoiding hotair and/or high temp, better option will be removing one by one.

[@bitsundbolts]

I was thinking what would be the best way to get all those socket pins out. I don't want to hear the entire area with hot air. I also think that one by one will be safer.

[@TheSliderW]

only issues i had with old hardware was a loose cpu socket ( celeron 400 system). I recall vividly we would use a stick to add some pressure on the cpu, bending it a tiny bit so the pins made good contact... i switched to a p4 later on. Best upgrade ever.

[@ruxandy]

Awesome video, as always! Keep it up! 🙂

[@bitsundbolts]

Thanks!

[@modlabs]

I always like to watch such videos. Please, make more for us!

[@joaoc_PT]

Joy!!! Another piece of hw history restored and saved

[@Ale.K7]

What an interesting problem. I'm always happy to see a piece of old hardware being saved :-).

[@bitsundbolts]

I am happy that I could fix it with my limited knowledge of electronics :) But hey, I learn with every little project!

[@NSHG]

Take BuB's advice on checking the pins. Strangely enough, I fixed an artefacting Innovision Banshee that was caused by 4 SGRAM chips having weak solder.

[@bitsundbolts]

Glad to hear that you were able to fix a Banshee! Most of the cards I get have this issue with weak solder. Anyway, I'm really happy to hear that another 3Dfx card has been saved.

[@TheKCsaba]

I just built a retro K6-2 machine, it would be a pleasure to buy your fixed voodoo for connecting to the Virge 🙂

[@g4z-kb7ct]

Losing colors is VERY common on arcade PCBs. I've probably fixed 1000's of boards with missing colors and it was usually due to one of two reasons. Either the color drive transistors were bad (that's the 'diodes' you mentioned at 7:50... they are transistors being used to drive and amplify the signal, not diodes) and the other reason is a bad RAMDAC or logic chip (such as a 74LS07) that the color signals pass through. The Voodoo card falls into the latter category which uses a chip between the RAMDAC and VGA port to switch the RGB signals between the two VGA ports on the card. It's simply a CPU-controlled bus switch allowing signals to go to the 2D port or 3D port depending on what is on screen and some of the circuit inside has failed. Not surprising for a +25 year old PCB :-)

[@phillycheesetake]

I know exactly the satisfaction you feel from buying broken hardware and fixing it. I bought an FIC VA-503+ which the seller said was totally dead...I set the power jumper from AT to ATX. Hold the applause, I already know how good I am. Jokes aside, great job on diagnosing that, with a scope you'll be able to do much more! That low-melt solder also looks like it prevents a lot of heat stress on the PCB that would otherwise be a necessary evil of hot air. Are you using a board heater or is this just room temperature soldering?

[@bitsundbolts]

I recently pulled a FIC 503+ from a pile at the scrapyard. I think it's the same model, but I don't remember the letters in the model number. I doubt there were different versions. Yes, the soldering is done at room temperature without a board heater.

[@Stratotank3r]

Good Job! Wieder eine Voodoo2 gerettet. Meine Karten funktionierten immer tadellos. Das kleine Fnirsi habe ich auch. Gutes Teil!

[@bitsundbolts]

Vielen Dank! Ja, das kleine Teil scheint genug zu sein für sowas.

[@charonunderground8596]

I am waiting for Dual Socket Pentium Pro :) And the film is great as usual. A piece of good work !

[@bitsundbolts]

Thank you. One day, I hope to find a useful socket 8 board. So far, no luck.

[@baalaagaa]

Damn FBI spying on us via retro GPUs! 🤣

[@GadgetUK164]

Great video! Cool idea to sell extras etc!

[@renesantosbr]

From the video title I thought it would be a discolored PCB issue 😅 I recall having such red color missing after connecting a grounded monitor to a ungrounded PC, or vice versa, possibly tosting part of the digital to analog converter like the card from the video.

[@DangerousPictures]

I didn't think it was the chip as it switches between voodoo and vga passthrough and vga passthrough works fine. I expected the error to be somewhere on the voodoo side of the switch chip, perhaps those 3 transistors and caps next to the chip. also would have used the scope the probe the inputs of the chip to see if the red channel arrives at the input before replacing it.

[@bitsundbolts]

I'll hopefully get there with time to do better diagnostics. This was my very first time using an oscilloscope and trying to understand where the issue is. I would assume that the signal is somehow connected to ground and therefore not present. Maybe the chip works and it was just some contamination on the PCB causing that issue. I can keep that chip and experiment with it later

[@jimechols4347]

With all these cracked solder joints, the PCB manufacturer should mix in a malleable metal like gold into the solder. That way with hot and cold operational cycles, the solder joints would stretch and not crack.

[@lemagreengreen]

I think Creative Voodoo2's were probably the most sold, I seem to remember their price was pretty much the lowest and like all reference Voodoo2's they were all the same. Surprised you don't have another! I was curious (sorry, unrelated to the card): what flux do you use? you seem to get very good results

[@bitsundbolts]

I am using AMTECH NC-559-ASM - which I buy from AliExpress. No idea if it is fake or not, but this is the second batch I bought in a timespan of 7 years. And I cannot complain about it (there is an affiliate link in the video description if you'd like to check it out). The new batch I got is very clear and a pleasure to work with. The older batch I had was more yellowish, but that was a long time ago (and yes, I know flux has an expiration date, but it never affected its performance - even when it was years past its expiration).

[@knortn]

You are right with your assumption that the bus switch IC switches between 2D and 3D modes. It essentially works like a relay. Orchid Voodoo cards used real electromechanical relays instead that produced an audible click when switching between 2D and 3D modes.

[@bitsundbolts]

Oh yes, I do have an Orchid Voodoo 1 and that sound of the clicking delays is phenomenal! I remember the sales pitch one of the computer shop owners performed on my friend who bought the Righteous 3D. At least you could hear when the 3D mode activates!

[@MonochromeWench]

In my experience Losing a colour channel was always due to a loose vga connector or broken over-stressed cable. Passthrough switching failure is a new one. Is this a common problem and were relays on V1s more reliable? than a solid state solution.

[@awilliams1701]

I actually thought it was suspicious that you got continuity on both sides of that chip. I'm like......yeah it's probably bad. If it works the way I think it does it should only have connectivity to the other side when powered.

[@k9cj5]

curious what you normally set the temp on your iron? Great video!

[@bitsundbolts]

I set my iron between 320 and 350, but I prefer higher temperatures especially when using wick to remove solder.

[@shaunclarke94]

The chip looks to allow it to be controlled in two halves. I would suspect it has the two output groups commoned together to the VGA output, and the two input groups are the 2D and 3D signals respectfully, then it switches to one or the other based on the two OE signals. You should be able to check this by probing each OE signal in 2D and 3D modes. You might also find the two output pin groups commoned together. So basically I think just a big multiport solid state switch.

[@SianaGearz]

Hey guys i think this guy is good at Voodoo, he put a spell on us to watch his videos.

[@jonsmith5087]

now i have to pull my cards and check that chip also because ive seen tjhe blue color in 3dmark 2000 - thanks

[@bitsundbolts]

Would be great if this could help you fix a fault if it's similar! Good luck and let me know, I'd be interested to know if you're successful.

[@Trazer350]

i got a vodoo 2 at home to but no system xD but i know this card works x

[@SimonZerafa]

If you ever have a really tidy 486 mainboard for sale I might be interested 🙂👍

[@bitsundbolts]

I have a few boards which I haven't had the time to test yet. Most look good. I'll have them on the channel soon.

[@BurleyBoar]

I would be interested in buying things. I want cards and parts like you show and would gladly pay for a known working and repaired card.

[@bitsundbolts]

The primary goal is to redistribute old hardware to people interested in retro and vintage PCs (and to make space at home 😅 - instructions from my wife). I'd be happy to recover the cost and shipping fees, but that should still result in a lot lower prices than found on eBay. I'm working on it!

[@chris-tal]

I had a similar issue, but in my case one out of the three color output channel signals was weak right at the DAC"s output pin so I replaced that. Mine had no TVS diodes populated either. Early Voodoo cards had relays clicking intead of those solid state bus switches on V2s.

[@bitsundbolts]

Now that you mention it: I compared two Diamond Monster 3D II - both board revisions A. One has those diodes populated, the other one doesn't! It doesn't even have solder pads. I don't know how 🤔

[@chris-tal]

@@bitsundbolts Mine (which is missing the diodes) is a seemingly unbranded one. It only has the 3Dfx logo and the Voodoo2 text silkscreened. Nearly all cards are reference designs and I think it was a small cost cutting measure after 3Dfx finally let OEMs do their own. Mine was an 8MB model, so after the successful repair I've upgraded it to 12 so I could use it with another 12MB one in SLI. 😃

[@googleevil]

What kind of solder did you use for this ic removal? I did not get it :) thank you!

[@WelshProgrammer]

It's called Low-Melt solder, Low Temperature Solder Paste, or Low Temp Soldering Alloy. There's a few different names but they all do the same thing, most melt around 70C and mixes with existing solder making them easier to wick away.

[@bitsundbolts]

There are affiliate links for low-melt solder in the video description if you want to check it out. I think mine has a melting temperature of 137 degrees. It worked quite well in this scenario

[@MarcoGPUtuber]

11:50 If you don't have Socket 7 sockets, don't use a donor board. A store I know here sells Socket 7 sockets.

[@bitsundbolts]

I actually do have two new Socket 7. I bought them some time ago. I wasn't sure if I could fix a DFI K6BV3+ that bent a pin on a CPU each time the socket was closed. Well, it was just the internal contact plate that was bent. I could fix that and kept both sockets unused. Perfect for the board at the end of this video 😉

[@comedyflu]

Are you autographing the voodoo cards ?

[@bitsundbolts]

Haha, I can on request :)

[@GameCode64]

Good job, Can you also please send the link for the low melt solder, please?

[@bitsundbolts]

There should be an affiliate link in the video description. Just in case the link doesn't work (may be due to geolocation), here are the details of the solder I use: MECHANIC XW 0.5/0.6mm Lead-Free Sn42/Bi50/Cu8 138℃

[@GameCode64]

@@bitsundbolts ah yes thanks, sorry i might just over read it, my fault!

[@MarcoGPUtuber]

Hi! What is the model of your oscilloscope?

[@bitsundbolts]

It's a FNIRSI 5012H

[@MarcoGPUtuber]

@@bitsundboltsThanks!

[@awilliams1701]

Have you heard of the PCI express FPGA video card for retro games? It's supposed to be able to do GL Quake at 1080p 60 FPS. It would be even better if it had an option for normal PCI. I saw it on HW news on gamers nexus.

[@bitsundbolts]

No, I have not heard of this card. It might be interesting to some, but I think I'd rather stick to old and original stuff since there is so much to do :)

[@awilliams1701]

@@bitsundbolts I can understand that, but I do think it's interesting if someone made a variant for PCI/ISA. (It is open source). We do have those modern sound blaster recreations. IT's getting to the point where you can build a modern retro PC. And the plus side of this, is that it would have HDMI! No CRTs needed!! (I hate CRTs). I do find old hardware to be interesting, but there is certainly an appeal of modern retro.

[@MrJrgen]

What is the flux you are using? Link in description doesnt work.

[@bitsundbolts]

I am using AMTECH NC-559-ASM (taken from the ad on AliExpress). I am not sure if it is real or fake, but the link in the description is the product I purchased and what you can see in this video. Odd that the link doesn't work for you - I just tried and it opened the correct product.

[@user-wy6iy7ij1z]

Nice

[@squeeeb]

#savethevoodoos Nice repair!

[@elmariachi5133]

By what method did you find this chip's datasheet? My searches for all the three numbers on the package lead to absolutely nothin useful. Yesm we can see the datasheet contains the '3384' part, but searching for S33854W yields nothing :(

[@bitsundbolts]

I looked up the numbers for the chip that was on the Diamond card. I couldn't find it for the one on the Creative card either.

[@elmariachi5133]

@@bitsundbolts Thank you, this explains it. Having some sacrifical device always is good :)

[@alaricjeard269]

I encounter this issue on a GF2 Ti card, one surface mount component on the RGB trace was shoot. Replace it and voila.

[@bitsundbolts]

Nice!

[@MrVipeg]

Great video. But how about burned ferrite bead (FB5)? It definitely looks not healthy. Timecode: 07:44

[@bitsundbolts]

That's probably a bit of flux residue. I did reflow the solder on the diodes and the beads because it was dull as well.

[@dyslectische]

I had that problem. But i use sli in that time. So i switch the cards and problem away.

[@rich1051414]

Might have been the same problem. Only the 'primary' card in the chain does the VGA passthrough switching.

[@bitsundbolts]

I think you're right. Sounds like the same issue.

[@fft2020]

I can also be a candidate to one of your voodoos :) I dont have any

[@kthmhg]

I see that not only me buy this oscilloscop after Necroware video xD

[@bitsundbolts]

Absolutely correct 😁

[@thejeffchen]

I've never had that chip die on me, but guess what - I had one with only Blue working. And that's because 2 of those 3 ferrite beads on the RGB lines have cracked! Replaced them and my colors were back. However that card had a weak FBI that only works up to 87MHz so it wasn't totally fixed :/

[@bitsundbolts]

Interesting. Yeah, it could be anything in that area that prevents the signal going through. The weird thing for me was the short on the signal line between those two terminals on the diode. Otherwise, the card was in good condition apart from the dull solder joints on the 3Dfx chips.

[@alphadog6970]

No but i have 480gtx with a yellow tint. No idea what is causing it and the internet is not helping. So i boxed it and left it on the shelf😢

[@bitsundbolts]

Ah, that's unfortunate. I hope that some day, your card can be fixed. If i learn enough and come across a similar issue like on your card, maybe there is some hope!

[@PKmuffdiver]

How do i get in touch with you?

[@bitsundbolts]

You can email me: bitsundbolts at gmail dot com. I'll include this information in future videos.

[@PKmuffdiver]

@@bitsundbolts Fantastic, thank you.

[@tristankordek]

🙂👍

[@Hadisabetghadam]

I Really Want To Give My ga-P41-es3g And Asus CUSI-FX To You For Repair

[@bitsundbolts]

Do you have any idea what's wrong with those boards? The gigabyte is for Core 2 CPUs.

[@Hadisabetghadam]

@@bitsundbolts p41-ES3G Has 12v Cpu Gigabyte motherboard has a problem with 12V CPU power. When I connect 12V CPU power and 24-pin power, it does not turn on, but when I connect only 24-pin power, it turns on (of course, when there is no 12V CPU, the post does not work). In the case of the Asus motherboard, I broke one of the tabs (one of the tabs In socket 370) while refreshing the thermal paste. I wanted to fix the broken tab with glue, the glue residue was poured on the whistle pins I wanted to remove the remaining glue, which resulted in breaking one of the socket pins

[@bitsundbolts]

If you want, send pictures of the Socket 370 to my email address so I get a better understanding of the issue there. The Gigabyte board with the 12V issue seems to be something else (maybe leaky caps or short somewhere). I am not sure if I am able to fix something like that. But we can discuss it in private. You can find my email in the channel about tab or wait for future videos - I will add contact details.