Mystery of the Disappearing Sounds (in European Portuguese!) | Practice Portuguese

[@_LifeIsGood]

My wife and I are learning Eu Portu now, and we were JUST talking about this! We said" The program tells us to say it one way, but then when it repeats it back in a sentence most of the 'o's and 'e's disapear!

[@turinmormegil7715]

I never thought of It as fascinating, puzzling and mysterious, just a consequence of the speed in which Portuguese people speak in Portugal

[@sigitu]

I love this ! I love European portugues so much, love this video !! More videos !

[@Toyuki1]

I'm Wayne Wilson, and I'm happy to see such positive feedback! Obrigado! The software I use is called Toon Boom Harmony.

[@lighthouse_1]

Thank you Wayne!

[@bibinoojen]

Great video!

[@MaSsiVeGaming1]

This is quite easily explainable. Someone has already explained it here. The sounds for example of the "e" in "estar" doesn't disappear, it's just "really quiet" or better yet, it's simultaneous in relation to the rest of the letter. This a form of fluidity in more informal speech. And it's because the pronunciation is so natural that the sound is done seemingly very quickly, but only because it's really like in a low vocal frequency. Portuguese people regardless of area catch all sounds immediately but to foreign ears it sounds as if we skip ahead, in this example to "sh"-tar. In this case the ESH- is a very simultaneous sound, we (depending on the region of Portugal, but Lisbon tends to do this a lot) pronounce all those letters together into one sound which makes it seem rushed. It's basically some type of conversational pronunciation. If you listen to a political speech it sounds more full.

[@pauvermelho]

""e" in "estar" doesn't disappear, " I don't think it disappears also, the "e" is there but it's a closed vowel And I don't say "excelente" like in the video

[@annesadler2789]

Excellent - and beautifully animated!!!

[@romthummeunnoi8496]

I really enjoy listening to the narrator voice.

[@mehboobyaqoob473]

Just amazing👏👏

[@carokaffee1935]

Thank you for the explantion!

[@cristinas4060]

Muito interessante . Muito obrigada

[@peachesandoreo]

Muito obrigado! This has explained a lot. Eu entendo melhor agora.

[@michelleirby7587]

Super entertaining and educational thank you so much

[@LLuviaNeg]

Muito bom video. Ajudou-me muito. Obrigadissima! :)

[@MrJohndolphin]

I speak European Portuguese quite fluently and I believe the disapearing vowels are necessary for fluidity, once you're fluent in the language you don't even notice.

[@RagamalaRokudan]

Actually British English swallowed a lot of sounds too. Just consider these places' names: Marylebone becomes 'Marleben', Leicester becomes 'Leister', Scarborough becomes 'Scarbre', that's phenomenal! And when British people say "Are you all right?", it's often slurred to the point that you can only hear "u're right?"

[@PracticePortuguese]

Ragamala Rokudan that's very true, great point! Thanks for the insight ;)

[@jeanlundi2141]

That's because, british english, just like eu-portuguese is stress-timed.

[@richlisola1]

All English spoken accents swallow vowels

[@katierasburn9571]

Putting it in this context as a brit just starting to tackle eu portuguese makes the language so much more fun, they’re like our more fun cousins haha

[@versain676]

boas dicas. brigad :)

[@smendes2004]

This doesn't happen only in EUPortuguese... non-stressed vowels, specially the"e", are muted in PT. But PT is far from being the only language where this happens.

[@Ogeroigres]

True, it happens in English and French, and even in Albanian with the letter ë.

[@mariodezert]

I’m from Florianópolis, southern Brazil and we kinda speak like that too and also speak faster than other parts of Brazil. We’ve been colonized by thousands of Azorians in the 18th century.

[@valentimrfagim]

Muitos parabéns pelo vídeo.

[@MarkBH70]

Helpful! Good! A proposito, I was surprised that Joel's face didn't seem to match his voice. I never would have guessed he looked like that!

[@MarkBH70]

Faz-me surpesa tambem que Rui tem azuis olhos. Certo que ele eh Portugues?? Ha, ha!

[@carlosmagalhaes7109]

É raro mas alguns portugueses têm olhos azuis.

[@Ogeroigres]

@@MarkBH70 Não é assim tão raro, cerca de 10% da população portuguesa tem olhos azuis, especialmente no Norte e Centro do país, e também em algumas ilhas dos Açores.

[@MarkBH70]

@@Ogeroigres Não sabia. Não conheço muitos portugueses. Meu avô era italiano, nascido cá. Ele tinha olhos azuis brilhantes! A pele era escura.

[@PUAlum]

Oh im doomed.....i've noticed most of these....but can't seem to wrap my (possibly too aged) brain around them. But your videos are helpful! And in lock-down in LA....i'm motivated.

[@javifontalva7752]

poderias fazer um video sobre a colocaçao dos pronomes em Português? wuando e usado o mesóclesis? Obrigado

[@silviot.doss.3946]

www.soportugues.com.br/secoes/sint/sint74.php Vê se consegue entender. ;)

[@interestedlen8823]

Here's some love for Wayne Wilson for his fab animation - also, for being the best Deadpool! (I know it's sounds like Wade, but the d is lost 😉, obrigado!)

[@manuelfantoni5262]

lição muito, muito interessante!

[@lighthouse_1]

Great Video! Thanks for that!! I liked also the animated video!!! How did you do that? Can you tell me the name of the software?

[@rogeriopenna9014]

Believe it, this is also a mistery to 210 million speakers of portuguese, in Brazil.

[@ddralz]

Muito bom, bravo!

[@johnstanton8499]

I think the disappearing letters, though silent, shape the mouth to pronounce the words

[@Ogeroigres]

Exactly.

[@silveriorebelo8495]

The mystery is thicker than that. The voyells seem to disappear, but they really don't (unless you are talking in a very lazy manner). Most of the time, they are clearly kept, but as mute sounds. Be aware: a mute voyell is pronounced, but you need portuguese ears, trained from infancy, to be able to easily recognize them. In fact, we have three types of voyells: open, closed and mute.

[@pauvermelho]

Most of the "e" are there, but they are just closed ones Besides the consonant has in a lot of times the "e" sound on them

[@aevanoparaiso7429]

I am portuguese, my husband is german and we try to study the other language, but is funny because in his acent he reads all the vowals, and I remove all from my german... ahaha

[@TheSnorkeler]

muit brigad mninx

[@nunoazevedoecardoso849]

that's what make us so unique... :D

[@mesopotamialover905]

This video summaries my struggle with the language hhh

[@pssilva3973]

The English language has a lot of this in its "lagging assimilation".

[@MichaelPeterFustumum]

Isso também passa no Brasil? Não consta-me.

[@PracticePortuguese]

Em geral, a pronúncia do português do Brasil é mais clara do que no português europeu e percebe-se melhor cada vogal :) - Joseph

[@MichaelPeterFustumum]

@@PracticePortuguese Eu noto-o.

[@ceciliajose4597]

Muito bom¡

[@flowerpower6216]

omg..how will i ever learn now???😟

[@pauvermelho]

forget everything is in the video :) This only happens when we speak fast

[@crpth1]

@@pauvermelho - Finally, someone stating the obvious...

[@enricoboldrin9653]

yeahhh... GOOD LUCK!!!!!

[@geoffcorre9704]

Divertido!

[@taurus93ox]

muito bri-gad!

[@felipecarvalho4580]

When writing it's the full word. It's like saying in english "doesn't" and writing allways "does not" :)

[@carlosmagalhaes7109]

De nada!

[@alexandre_pt]

Obrigado**

[@adilsonsousa2806]

My name is Adilson, I'm from Brasil . I can help you all improve your portuguese. I know both brazilian and european portuguese.

[@alexandre_pt]

How do you know European Portuguese?

[@adilsonsousa2806]

@@alexandre_pt i studied by myself. It is not difficult

[@jbdbibbaerman8071]

@@alexandre_pt Probably in the same way an English speaker can learn another accent. Ever heard Tom Holland play an American character?

[@alexandre_pt]

@@jbdbibbaerman8071 I've never heard a Brazilian speaking European Portuguese.

[@helentalbot8120]

Haha gosto imenso

[@javifontalva7752]

adorei

[@jdfs21]

but br portuguese makes so much more sense!

[@alexandre_pt]

Why?

[@crpth1]

Justin, are you smoking "funny stuff"?! LOL 😂 More sense since when? Entire words or expressions are not changed by, or only for, convenience. So many times are simply changed by ignorance! More than just contracting some vowels, etc. Which BTW also happen in Portuguese BR! Sounds pop out of nowhere and even more strange. Find their way, and end up, into the "written word"! Nothing short of appalling!

[@jdfs21]

Алешандре nowhere near as many disappearing sounds-which is what this whole video is about.

[@jdfs21]

crpth1 what?

[@arturrosa3166]

In PT-BR there are also very puzzling things, like saying adding "j" or "sh" in some "d" and "t", depending on the region. For example, "onde" becomes "ondje", "tia" becomes "tshia", "de" becomes "dje", etc, etc. Creio que os brasileiros chamam a este fenómeno "chiar as letras".

[@paulocoelhodiaz]

Como se escreve e como se fala realmente na rua XD

[@alovioanidio9770]

Nowadays there's no original portuguese anymore. European portuguese has changed a lot its pronounciation and brazilian portuguese changed its grammar

[@desanipt]

As if the pronunciation of Brazilian Portuguese didn't change... L at the end of syllables are pronounced with a W sound; D and T, when followed by an i sound becomes Dj and Tsh in most of Brazil; E at unstressed syllables becomes i (funly, these same E's are the ones Portuguese people tend to omit, but when we don't omit them, they do have a distinct sound from i).

[@VieiraFi]

​@@desanipt Esse "e" virar "i" acho que depende da região. Também acontece algo semelhante com "o" virando "u" em algumas situações. P ex: "sotaque" soa algo como "sutaqui". A pronúncia do "di" e "ti" como se fosse "dji" e "tchi" sei que é uma inovação; o mesmo vale para que o som de "l" tenha virado um "u" no final das palavras. Essa regra do "e" virar e "i" e do "o" virar "u" não sei como começou ou se era algo dialetal em Portugal que veio para cá. Disseste algo interessante: "funly, these same E's are the ones Portuguese people tend to omit, but when we don't omit them, they do have a distinct sound from i)" É verdade mesmo? Porque, por exemplo, já vi muitas vezes quando passam a pronúncia portuguesa para o IPA o "e" virar um tipo de "i" ou ser realmente omitido completamente. Tirei isto aqui da wikipedia: "European Portuguese possesses a near-close near-back unrounded vowel. It occurs in unstressed syllables such as in pegar [pɯ̽ˈɣaɾ] ('to grip').[3] There is no standard symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet for this sound. The IPA Handbook transcribes it as /ɯ/, but in Portuguese studies /ɨ/ is traditionally used.[8] Traditionally, it is pronounced when "e" is unstressed; e.g. verdade [vɨɾˈðaðɨ], perigo [pɨˈɾiɣu]. However, if "e" is initial, then it is pronounced [i]; e.g. energia [inɨɾˈʒiɐ], exemplo [iˈzẽplu]. When "e" is surrounded by another vowel, it becomes [i]; e.g. real [ʁiˈal]. However, notice that when the e caduc is preceded by a semi-vowel, it may become [e ~ ɛ] poesia [puɛˈziɐ], quietude [kjɛˈtuðɨ]. Theoretically, unstressed "i" cannot be lowered to /ɨ/. However, when it is surrounded by [i, ĩ] or any palatal sound [ɲ, ʎ, ʃ, ʒ], it usually becomes /ɨ/. E.g. ministro [mɨˈniʃtɾu], príncipe [ˈpɾĩsɨpɨ], artilhar [ɐɾtɨˈʎaɾ], caminhar [kɐmɨˈɲaɾ], pistola [pɨʃˈtɔlɐ], pijama [pɨˈʒɐmɐ]. The Portuguese e caduc may be elided, becoming in some instances a syllabic consonant; e.g. verdade [vɾ̩ˈðað], perigo [ˈpɾiɣu], energia, [inɾ̩ˈʒiɐ], ministro [mˈniʃtɾu], príncipe [ˈpɾĩsp], artilhar [ɐɾtˈʎaɾ], caminhar [kɐmˈɲaɾ], pistola [pʃ̩ˈtɔlɐ]." Obviamente, a wikipedia não é nem de longe a fonte mais confiável, então fica à vontade de me corrigir. Cumprimentos.

[@shaungordon9737]

very different to Brazilian which pronounces every single sound

[@trueCrime.Italiano]

Yes but ironically with a change of the original pronunciation .. D and T becomes J and tsch . .R becomes H .. AL becomes Aoo

[@alovioanidio9770]

Nowadays there's no original portuguese anymore. European portuguese has changed a lot its pronounciation and brazilian portuguese changed its grammar.

[@Ttinytino1]

Brazilians invent sounds where they don't exist. They put u in the end of words ending with l, or create js after ds where they don't exist LOL

[@oventuno]

Not really, Brazilian Portuguese have reduced vowels too, in less intensity than its European counterpart, but still occurs.

[@alexandre_pt]

Brazilian is boring.

[@JoseFerreira-zo9im]

Porque colocaram o sotaque labrego dos lisboetas? Não temos culpa de eles comerem as vogais todas. ish-tar ish-tou ish-cê-len-t ish-pê-rar ê-lê ci-da-d trâ-zer-t quê-ri-du di-fe-ren-t con-si-gu por-cus o-bri-ga-du prin-cê-p Fi-li-pe O quié quiele di-sse

[@JoseFerreira-zo9im]

Snow18 O sotaque de Lisboa continua a ser labrego e eslavizado, não posso fazer nada.

[@pauvermelho]

@@JoseFerreira-zo9im Os Lisboetas dizem: Eu vejo o cu à vaca Já tu deves dizer: Eu beijo o cu à vaca

[@Lokoflash]

és de aonde

[@fermagalhaes1]

Creio ser mais uma tentativa intencional de denegrir a lingua Portuguesa. No inglês também sucede o mesmo . Enquanto na escrita Portuguesa se escreve correctamente e a pronúncia é que pode ser diferente das diversas zonas do Pais e das cultura das pessoas, no inglês fazem a junção das palavras talvez para poupar letras.

[@mariodezert]

Fernando Magalhães Pode parecer que não mas há regiões no Brasil que se fala do mesmo jeito que o vídeo no dia a dia da língua. Por exemplo, eu moro em Florianópolis, sou natural daqui, e falamos muito parecidos com o sotaque dos Açores pq aqui a região foi colonizada por milhares deles no século XVIII.

[@JoseFerreira-zo9im]

Fernando Magalhães A língua portuguesa já está denegrida. O nosso sotaque é feio e puro lixo.

[@allanarayssa7540]

@@JoseFerreira-zo9im isso se chama variações linguísticas, ao contrário do que você pensa, isto não destrói a nossa língua, apenas a enriquece. (Por favor não use a palavra denegrir pois possue um certo caráter racista, ao incluir a palavra negro a algo ruim)

[@JoseFerreira-zo9im]

@@allanarayssa7540 onde é que eu falei em negro?

[@allanarayssa7540]

@@JoseFerreira-zo9im não que tenha sido proposital mas a palavra denegrir tem seu significado atrelada a algo ruim, olhando sua grafia deNEGRIR, a palavra traz um caráter racista, não estou dizendo que vc é rasta é só apenas uma informação que estou repassando, não estou te acusando ou algo assim

[@LUSO_]

European Portuguese??? Just Portuguese is fine Sir 😉

[@VieiraFi]

When people when to know specifically about british english, they say "british english" because a lot of times "english" refers to the american version. So something similar happens in the portuguese language, since most of its speakers speak brazilian portuguese.

[@LUSO_]

@@VieiraFi Thanks for your explanation/point of view. But if u speak portuguese from Portugal u can say just portuguese! It’s the most weirdest thing listen someone referring as European portuguese! Just saying!✌🏼

[@PracticePortuguese]

For us, saying “European Portuguese” isn’t so much a political statement or agenda like some (usually pt natives) imply, it’s just what learners search for when trying to exclude Brazilian materials from the results. Getting our members to speak the language as it’s spoken in Portugal is more important to us than engaging (except for right now apparently 😅) in political arguments splitting hairs about terminology. (Joel)

[@PracticePortuguese]

I should add also, in case it needs to be said, that we love Brazil and Brazilians! Such a rich and vibrant culture. No single Portuguese variant is more correct or true than any other. If there are natives speaking it, then it’s a language. 🥰