Tesla's Hidden Battery Options: Don’t Pick the WRONG One!

[@aslye]

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[@Dptl]

Does this mean one needs master or doctorate in commodity market to be able to own a tesla? 🤔😇 😊 some amusement

[@harsimranbansal5355]

LFP doesn’t have memory, but it needs to be calibrated often to 100% because the voltage at 100% vs at 0% is basically the same. With other cells the voltage varies and that’s how you measure capacity remaining. When voltage doesn’t change, you don’t know the max or min capacity that accurately so charging to 100% often, at least once a week according to tesla keeps the BMS calibrated so the car doesn’t shut down unexpectedly.

[@marcusbiller867]

Exactly. You "calibrate" the BMS, not the battery. 100% charging is not good for any battery regardless of chemistry. At least for now.

[@markkennard861]

If the charged voltage and the discharged voltage was the same then it would never go flat ! I'm being a smart ass, I get your point. Also the on the charging of the LIP battery, Tesla state that the battery likes to be plugged in all the time. Always charge to 100%. I agree that this does not sound write but who would argue against Tesla.. Its quite possible that 100% is not actually at cell maximum anyway. A bit like saying the 18650 is 100% charged at 4.10v and not the specified 4.20v

[@harsimranbansal5355]

@@marcusbiller867 not really. LFP cells can last 2-4x longer than nickel cells even if LFP is charged to 100%. If you look at the charge cycle data for LFP, there’s basically no difference between charging to 0-80 or 0-90 or 0-100 for longevity. For nickel cathode cells this matters a lot and it’s better to keep charge limit at 80% or lower.

[@davidclark2286]

sorry chaps but you are generally wrong. lfp should be fully charged once a week. because the individual cells can only be ballancrd at the higher voltages. no memory effect. The BMS will turn off the battery if individual cells get to low. So because they can only be balanced at high voltages they need to be fully charged once a week else the cells will get out of balance. Of course this is possible because they have lower cell voltages and do not degrade at full charge.

[@jimave]

Harsimran Bansal. How is the LFP calibrated?

[@Kermit26297]

Hey Andy, I watch dozens of Tesla videos each week, and this is the first video where I’ve seen somebody try to comprehensively describe all of the different battery technologies that go into different Tesla vehicles. Even some of the best Tesla KZbinrs gloss over these types of distinctions, especially regarding the LFP batteries. Well done. This is one of the many reasons that we subscribe to your channel.

[@marcusbiller867]

Most of the things, if not almost all of it, is wrong though, so you learned nothing. He is very bad with the technical part of these things.

[@marcusbiller867]

Especially when he days LFPs have memory to simply plug in his sponsor. You as a viewer actually got dumber by that sentence alone...

[@davidpearn5925]

My Australian LFP SR+ doesn’t exhibit less than normal retardation @100% SOC. And I can sleep well at night. We did 457 km on a return trip in mild weather this week and had 5% left over. LFP for me !

[@nikitoz777]

Добрый

[@Octamed]

Yeah, without the cold weather concerns, EVs for Aus make even more sense (try telling boguns that though)

[@davidpearn5925]

@@Octamed ahhh, well that’s the trumpian useful idiot era we now live in (via the internet and the Saint Petersburg FBI indicted IRA hacker mob.)

[@maullah001]

Thanks for your video. We just got our Model 3 and received a text from Tesla asking me to charge to 100% at least once a week. I must say I was intrigued by the text as I was under the impression that charging like that would degrade battery life. Your presentation explains a lot!

[@wakeywarrior]

I have the 2022 RWD LFP 60KW and it’s very impressive I’m getting 275 miles plus. Even on short trips here in the still chilly UK I’m often getting under 200wh. Since my last charge it’s averaged 223. Astonishing really. It’s a 300 mile car I suspect in warmer climate and careful acceleration and limiting to 65mph.

[@ZEFElectric]

Hi Andy. You missed to mention NCMA LG Chem batteries which Tesla is using on their 2021 3/Y Long Range models (at least the ones delivered in Europe). There are pluses and minuses but the NCMA has way less cobalt content compared with the Panasonic NCA and lower degradation (at least they claim so). Having said that, NCMA seem to be a good balance between NCA and LFP. Charging speed on NCMA was also somewhat lower (I have one of the first released models, made in US and received in December 2020) comparing with NCA but as of December 2021 they boost the speed on the LG pack so the gap is smaller now. Everybody expects indeed the 4680 cells soon and will be interesting to see how will Tesla introduce them to the market.

[@carlwest859]

never imagined the lead acid storage battery when pushed aside would start a race in technology that is so fascinating and will change our lives so thoroughly. thanks for your report

[@james-brown]

LFP does degrade more quickly due to 100% charging. I can't believe how many times people get this wrong. Only reason you're told to go to 100% is so Tesla can get an accurate trip reading.

[@MrCristopher99]

My LFP 60kWh battery charged at 90kW at 80%, its amazing, you can charge 100% daily and have regen at 100% also. Im only seeing positives so far!

[@liminyao]

Andy - no one has explained this so comprehensive and so clear than you have. Great job and thank you!

[@scottz45]

My guess about the new Model Y on the EPA list is as follows. The new Y is a SR+ from Fremont with less 2170 cells. This will allow Tesla to continue using Fremont for Model Y but give a price diff to the 4860 from Austin. With luck the Austin Model Y with 4680s will be a little lighter then the current long range and have a bit more range as well. Excited to see what happens at any rate.

[@marioescalona1640]

I am on the same boat as you. Had initial delivered August then moved to May and now back to Aug-Oct. FSD on order.

[@Antwaiigaming]

I have a LFP 2022 Model 3 coming in July/August - Can't wait!!!

[@Kermit26297]

We ordered the same car in November, and ours arrives next month :-)

[@bingli4927]

How do you know which battery the car you ordered have? Does it tell you in your account?

[@Kermit26297]

@@bingli4927 All Model 3 RWD’s now have LFP.

[@bingli4927]

@@Kermit26297 we got an order in for a long range AWD, are they LFP as well?

[@Kermit26297]

@@bingli4927 No, ONLY the RWD models get the LFP batteries. That’s the only real downside of the LR Dual-Motor (besides the higher price).

[@thecaptainatlas]

Glad I subbed to this channel because I'm seriously considering buying a Model 3 for myself and this was useful information!

[@JamesMcGillis]

Thank you for presenting facts and information on Tesla, not the usual hype and fanboy videos we see from other channels.

[@73av8r5]

Thanks for this. I test drove a M3 LR yesterday and asked the rep about the rear wheel drive and if it would have the LFP battery. He had to call someone to find out. The answer was yes and to his credit he found out for me.

[@BRBallin1]

Its ability to charge at 100% makes it equivalent to a 300 mi battery car

[@73av8r5]

@@BRBallin1 Yep that’s why I’m considering it.

[@tominftlthomasp3559]

How do we get to decide which battery we get? When you place an order you get what you get. I’m still waiting on my model 3. Who knows what battery I’ll get.

[@WhatIsTheMeta]

As someone who owns a P85+ for almost a year, this is some deep information. Thanks.

[@TwilightKid]

What is funny is that NiCad batteries which were the first commonly used battery had an issue with memory which caused the search for new technologies like Nickle Metal Hydride which had a bad habit of imploding for no apparent reason and releasing toxic fumes. We then went to a few other types that only lasted extremely short periods of time until we found Lithium Ion which of course didn't suffer from memory issues and were supposed to be the ultimate form of rechargeable tech until we found that it would develop dendrites which of course caused them to degrade. Next question is, if or what we will find wrong with LFP in the future once it is in widespread use.

[@PhillProbst]

It's important to make a distinction between battery chemistry (NCA, LFP, etc.) and form factor (18650, 2170, 4680, blade, prism, etc.). They are completely separate issues and should be addressed separately.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Exactly

[@ColeBlack2]

Yes! 4680 isn't a different chemistry. He kept calling it the 3 different chemistrys. It's not. 4680 is either LFP or NCA. And for now it seems 4680s are only NCA as Tesla uses prismatic LFP batteries which are just that and not 18650 or 2170.

[@anju2606]

Just reserved a Model 3. I don’t think it’s right for them to put different batteries in cars and not allow you to choose especially if it may affect future resale value. Everyone is paying the same price and not receiving same batteries.

[@dave9182]

Thanks for your good coverage of Tesla. Great to see someone in Kentucky working at this level.

[@peten6445]

I own a 2021 model 3 sr+ and I love it. The current price is way too high for me. I got a deal compare to the ones that are for sale.

[@tommyj7825]

I drive a 2020 model 3 long range for business purposes. Put a little over 250k miles on it before the battery failed. I beat the hell out this battery, drove between 300 and 600 miles a day on a regular basis while mostly using superchargers to make my errands. I would regularly charge to 100% before leaving home and drive it down to 5-10% before supercharging. I'm getting a brand new battery and not a remanded one. I'm curious what/if there's any improvements in this new battery I'm waiting on. This time around, I'm going to only set it to 90% and never let it go under 15% and I'll see how much more range I'll get compared to my last one.

[@happyhippo1710]

How much are you paying for the battery?

[@tommyj7825]

@@happyhippo1710 A little shy of $16k. I anticipated I would get at least 300,000 miles before I would need a new battery so I was 50,000 off. I'm sort of glad it happened when it did because current prices are locked in contract with tesla's suppliers but when those contracts expire, prices due to inflation are going to be up 20-30%. Had my battery lasted longer than it did, I would be paying much, much more for the battery replacement.

[@helicopterjohns]

Hi Andy, Many thanks for a really informative video. I too have a Model Y Long Range on order that is due in September. I haven't seen any confirmation on whether Tesla has shipped any of these from Austin and whether they are equipped with 4680 batteries. Hope to hear something from Tesla to confirm that they are currently producing Model Y LR from Austin with the 4680 batteries. Please give us an update if you get any reliable information fron Tesla on this subject, not guesses.

[@Ankerstjerne1982]

just wanted to add another 3 things about the LFP battery, 1) cold weather DC charging can be slow 2) when you are DC charging you don't want to go much above 80% because the charge speed slows down. 80% on a NCA battery is more range than 80% on a LFP battery. 3) LFP batteries are said to last 2-3x times longer than NCA, so if you are the type to buy and own a car for like 10years it might be worth to consider this

[@musiclistener211]

I'm thinking 279 mile Model Y is LFP chemistry in a structural pack (perhaps with BYD blade battery). My guess is they are also doing the 4680 out of Austin as well which will be the other one submitted to EPA but not yet released. My guess as well would be both of these are other variants of Model Y so delaying your order will not help... but perhaps you can have your order changed to the new variant. Very soon we will see the website updated if I am correct.

[@jwj47214]

Hi Andy, great video. Thank you. If my delivery date is end of May (changed from Aug-Sept yesterday), how do I know whether my Y LR has 4680 battery or not? I agree with you if I can delay my delivery so that I can get the first 4680 batter, i would like to do that as well. How do I delay my delivery?? Any suggestions? Thank you Andy.

[@getawaydreamer2724]

These gas prices sent me over the edge. I’m buying a Model 3 sometime this year. $50 for a tank of gas in a Prius Prime is crap. That is old SUV price from 2005.

[@youdontknowme6004]

Prius 🤮

[@BRBallin1]

They increased the price on the Model 3 by $7k since I bought mine in April 2021. The gas prices should be the least of your concern. I bought it for the tech, the zero emissions, being quick yet quiet, and the red model 3 also looks really nice aesthetically. The gas savings were honestly an afterthought for me given all the other benefits it offers

[@lastnightsfavorite]

I am surprised you aren't listing the LG NMC battery pack that is going into the M3LR any time now. A pack that charges slower, has less discharge power and less capacity as well. This would have been essential to mention! Also when you mention that the top 10% can't be used on daily charge with NCA packs, then you should also mention that the lower 4,5% are hidden below 0%. This capacity also needs to be subtracted from the claimed range as it is part of it.

[@donle9323]

You are the best of what you do. Lots of info I couldn't get elsewhere. Keep up the good work.

[@happyhippo1710]

@ANDY SLYE it does not seem as customers have the option of picking which battery we get when we place an order.

[@tomz1364]

Best explanation I have seen. Good work.

[@TopicTech]

This was super helpful. Thank you

[@cmakely60]

Andy, I have a date of April 22 - May 27 for a LR Model Y in Blue. I live in NY. I delayed the order once. I will take the next VIN they give me hoping its an Austin build with 4680's.

[@gadgetperson5128]

Good luck on deferring your delivery. They kept changing my Model Y delivery and eventually wanted to deliver it in late December. I got them to defer to 2/1/22 but in mid January they said if I did not put myself back in line by January 27 they would refund my deposit. I ended up with a delivery of 2/10/22. Maybe due to your status with Tesla you will get preferential treatment but they were not accommodating to me. I wanted the car for April delivery when the weather is better and I did not have a pressing need for the car but Tesla didn’t care.

[@billligon4005]

Bought LFP batteries for my friends EV scooter (need to purchase a better charger with battery management system). Lighter weight will help me load the scooter into the trunk of my car. Hooray for LFP batteries. So can I purchase the 12v LFP battery for my 2019 M3?? And is it a good idea?

[@TheLooking4sunset]

A very useful video, i will stick to my mazda cx5 until it is guaranteed the new battery is what we would get, I live in Europe so would have appreciated the analysis of the German Tesla factory as pertaining to the battery applications

[@peterkn2]

Great video! Lots of useful info. I think there will be dual motors using lfp 4680 as well. My guess is they limited lfp 2170s to single motors because of it's discharge limitations but the 4680 will not have the same limitations. Lfp 4680 will probably be in every model and trim in the future until the next innovation.

[@jonanderson738]

the LFP and 100% charge is really making me reconsider the M3 RWD. I've heard that second motor adds 400 lbs and really messes with the driving and handling. it loses the nimbleness of the single motor M3. Plus the RWD M3 is the only one remotely affordable for me right now. You have driven single and dual motors right? Whatcha think?

[@RT-rv5be]

If you can't afford a dual motor model, don't even consider it. Extending yourself financially for any car is not worth it. The LFP M3 RWD is the most efficient Tesla battery and motor combo in most conditions currently, and daily charge up to 100 percent is akin to a performance or long range model at 80 percent charge with an NCA battery. If you're looking for long-term use, don't need the fastest charging speeds, and live in an area where all wheel drive isn't necessary, then the rear wheel drive LFP is a reasonable choice.

[@RT-rv5be]

@michael h LFP can go through more battery drain and full recharge cycles without significant degradation. Time will tell how they hold up, however.

[@RG-jy9bl]

Thanks for your simple explanation!! I was going to order a Tesla y performance but I’ll wait until January to make sure I get a 4680. I’m not a scientist so your explanation was really god

[@jeffneilson510]

My delivery date is May 17-June 14 model Y performance. I hope I get 4680

[@caiolimacaldas]

It's possible create some sort of satellite internet access antenna for cable internet access ?

[@jab2winfinance]

I think we’re in the same order batch or very close? I ordered my LR-7, blue, tow pkg on 10/27…. My delivery range changed about a week ago to 5/7-6/11 EDD. Delivery to Vegas. I was ecstatic when it got pushed back a month! 🤞🤞🤞

[@georgepelton5645]

FYI - Tesla announced in the Q1 earnings call that Austin built Model Y use the new 4680 cells, and they don’t plan to make LFP versions of the 4680. Therefore the Austin cars don’t have LFP right now, and when Tesla adds an LFP option for the Model Y it will likely use CATL prismatic cells, like the RWD Model 3 does.

[@wdbldr67]

It will be interesting to see if the LFP in a Model Y has more range than the LFP RWD M3. Less energy dense so I have read that they are basically Full packs in the RWD M3 rather than a Scaled down NCA pack.

[@Fiskaba]

My LFP Model 3 has what feels like full regen at 100%. It’s no different depending on SoC as far as I can tell.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

I wouldn't rely on that if you're braking behind another vehicle.

[@vanto4362]

They are canceling orders if you delay or reject a vehicle. This wasn't enforced much in the past, but I've seen orders canceled after putting it on hold when they assign you a vehicle.

[@vishnu2699]

YES. Thank you! get to the back of the line.

[@ValladaresJ0]

My 2021 battery is Made of NMC Lithium ion Battery. It has a Lithium-Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt-Oxide Battery Chemistry. Remember Some Model 3's and Y's still use this Battery Chemistry for their vehicles as well. If your VIN number has an E on the 7th Digit (going from left to right) Then you have a Lithium-Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt-Oxide battery.

[@vishnu2699]

TO GET YOUR Y EARLY: To get your order early just order with FSD then when they call to pick up say you change your mind. Then they'll turn off FSD.

[@i1pro]

I plan to delay mine also. Thank you for keeping us posted...

[@tmark33m]

Andy, I picked up my Model Y in late December, How can I tell which battery I have ? it was made in Austin

[@nightjudge2323]

Thank you!! Very informative & interesting! I don't want the Cybertruck, I NEED the CYBERTRUCK. Lol. So I wonder if they will carry the new 4680s since it has the option of 1,2, & 3 motors? I subscribed!

[@PCLoadLetter]

@3m45s An easier way to check if your Model 3 (or Shanghai RWD Model Y) is LFP vs NCA - what’s the 7th character in the VIN? E is NCA, F is LFP.

[@johnhahn1877]

Thanks for the info Andy. As an engineer, Tesla's amazing "outside the box" thinking has had my interest for the past couple years. Recently, I've been watching for updates regarding giga Austin and the possibility of 4680 springing to life in the Y. I ordered MYLR a couple weeks ago with a September delivery as of now. I'm hoping as you are, to score the new mega-cast front and rear with a 4680 structural pack between. Question, if my delivery day comes and they are still not shipping 4680 equipped Ys, how do you "delay"??

[@bigswee693]

Just text them and say you want to delay delivery.

[@johnhahn1877]

@@bigswee693 Thanks for the feedback will. Guess I’ll have to wait and see what comes first.

[@vanto4362]

They are canceling orders if you try to delay or reject the car. I've seen it happen multiple times now. It's all over the forums. Read your contract, because it's within their right to cancel orders if you don't accept within a number of days.

[@bigswee693]

@@vanto4362 I had a Plaid S and delayed my order and it was not cancelled. They picked me in June, delayed it until September and received my order. I would just ask for confirmation that it will not be cancelled.

[@invincibul]

@@bigswee693 There was a policy change a couple months ago, delay at your own peril. It’s unfair that you get both a lower price and the latest tech. Those should be for people paying $10k over what you paid for.

[@suezeeq12]

Andy I have a 2023 model 3, how do I know which one I have? Neither of what you show looks like my screen :(

[@bobdavis7192]

I attempted to do exactly what you are with my Model Y performance order. Tesla cancelled my order. I had a surgery coming up and it has a long convalescence period where I would not be able to pick up or even drive the car. Tesla did not consider that to be sufficient for a delayed delivery. They also told me that I was not allowed to specify 4680 batteries. I simply have to take whatever they decide to ship to me. I'll be interested in hearing if they cancel your order as they did mine.

[@castle5813]

Pretty sure they do the same to all customers no matter who they are. If everyone would want the new generations battery, they will not sell their previous edition and it would be a mess.

[@richardsego]

My Tesla rep told me they are no longer allowing delays. You take your car when it's ready or lose your order. I had both a LR3 and LRY on order and was waiting to see what happened with tax incentives. Lost the LR3 order bc it was ready now and they wouldn't delay.

[@invincibul]

I hope they cancel any delay requests. You can’t both pay a substantially lower price and also expect latest tech. Tesla is a business not a mark.

[@bobdavis7192]

@@invincibul I would have been willing to pay the price increase if they would have said it was required. I didn't get the option. They just closed my order and took my $250. That's just stupid. Over 20% margin on a 80,000 dollar purchase with FSD that has an even higher markup. They settled for a pissed off customer and $250. BRILLIANT!

[@invincibul]

@@bobdavis7192 They don't have the best training. If you were willing to pay the difference on the backend it would just be moving your order to the end of the line with upgraded specs. Pity they don't have the foresight to see that. Good luck on your car search

[@LindenRanch]

Hoping to get 46 80 in my Y expected to deliver late this year. I am in California but they are making them in Austin Texas.

[@Taesmith82958]

Anyone has word about what the 2022 model 3 long range will have what battery?

[@standelasanantone2180]

How do I determine which battery is in 2022 Model Y Performance?

[@nickroberts4586]

Im getting a new 85kw put in my 2013 model s. Because tesla doesnt make 85kw for the S anymore, my new battery is actually a 100kw that has been software reduced to 85

[@ithurielvoss2448]

The yoke steering wheel for tesla is perfect 👌😁 I know where can you get it at a great price

[@wakeywarrior]

The new Chinese RWD 60 LFP they are selling in the U.K. and Europe is pretty fantastic. Amazing efficiency and only about 30 miles difference to LR version. Also can be charged to 100%. Problem is they just put the price up by £3k! Still a lot cheaper than the LR though. Heat pump, double glazing, heated rear seats and steering wheel.

[@robertmcdonnold3038]

We have a M Y DM LR on order with delivery in December thru March 23. It's supposed to have the 2170 out of Freemont. However, with Austin expected to make M Y DM LR, I'm thinking it may be sooner. The announcement did say that Austin would be making 2170 and 4680. Whatever the case, I can hardly wait. Thanks for the info. Bob

[@ronaldboykin9755]

Thank you Andy for a great review! I ordered a SR+ M3 last year set to be delivered this month of March buy Tesla move the delivery date to June! Does this mean I will get a 2022 M3 with LFP battery?

[@rafmanansala1]

I commute my model 3 rwd with lfp 60mi daily im not able to complete two days without depleting my battery down to 10% daily. So my question is that is it okay or safe to charge my model 3 to 90% everyday?

[@danielmiles851]

I charge my phone all the way up and let it run out all the way down and outlast everyones phone if you have small auxiliary battery on top of your main battery you could do this

[@americanrider]

I have a MYP on order with a June 9 to July 21 delivery and as much as I'd like to see it ASAP would want to delay it if it doesn't come with the 4680 battery

[@DScott-bp4vu]

Thanks for the info Andy! I’m holding out for the 4680! 🙏🏾

[@aslye]

You and me both!

[@DScott-bp4vu]

@@aslye Hahaha!

[@happyhippo1710]

@@aslye ME Too! Even if the price is higher which it will probably be, I want the better batter and configuration. I heard that if you placed an order, you only get 1 time to delay otherwise the price is no longer locked. I think people should look into that for those who have a MY on order...

[@dobsonimages]

I have a friend that recently picked up a model Y in the Bay Area that may have an LFP battery pack.He has the same charging window as a model 3 standard and an E as the seventh symbol on his vin number. Any thoughts?

[@Zer0Edits00]

Are these batteries supposed to become standard for all Tesla vehicles soon?? I’d rather get a LR or performance than a rwd soon but the battery upgrade is huge

[@That-Guy_]

Ordered the LFP Model 3 Expected delivery in July

[@NatmanFilms]

*Hopefully the Model 3 Long Range comes with the 4680 Battery. I know I am wishing for alot but it would be so nice.*

[@That-Guy_]

@@NatmanFilms Eventually it should For now only the Model Y's from Texas have 4680s

[@jimmack1071]

What about their network ability for catching fire, while not being able to put out the fire in reasonable time, like 2/3 days time?

[@Bestdeal8888]

So model x and model s has the best batteries? Thank you 🙏

[@Ultrarunnerdad]

Just ordered my Model Y, Pushing to delay also due to wanting the new setup. but not sure when we will get them in Europe. i do hear that German MY will be new battery too.

[@jimdale6476]

I read everywhere that the first ones from Giga-Berlin will NOT be 4680 (initially 2170, I guess). After a few months (6-8?) they plan to switch to 4680. The first ones from Giga-Texas will be 4680, however, with their 4680 cells having already been built in California (ready in inventory). Hopefully before that supply runs out, Giga-Texas will begin producing their own 4680 cells, and also get various other forms of batteries from LG, CATL, etc.. Currently, there is no such thing as a LFP 4680 (as the LFP are prismatic ingots rather than cylindrical cells), which might likely rule out a structural battery pack also. Check further to see what form of battery you will get from Giga-Berlin, as it depends on what exactly you ordered. (Maybe you'll want to delay your delivery if you're strongly wanting 4680's?) Good luck.

[@ajm854]

Very well explained Thanks

[@NatmanFilms]

*Does anyone know when the 4680 Battery will come to the Model 3 cars?*

[@recruitmentch]

Hi, I bought a Tesla model y dual motor for my dad in November 2022. I've also have had a KIA EV6 since May 2022. Let me just come out and say it. The battery range of the model y is HORRIFIC. In fact, I'm due to go into Tesla this weekend as it really isn't adding up. Regardless of whether we precondition the battery or not, the Tesla loses battery life even when parked. I charged it 80% on a Sunday night, and after 4 days of driving (dad on average does 25 miles per day), we had to charge it on Thursday night as we knew that it wouldn't get him to work and home on Friday. He barely turns the heating on or heated seats, and yet the return on the so called range is horrific. Absolutely nothing compared to the KIA which actually gives you back miles thru the regen breaking. We will see what Tesla will say, but I'm so disappointed. One day I went on a long trip. Charged it full to 329 miles. By the time I had preconditioned the car, this had someone dropped to 315 just through the preconditioning.

[@chunckyfreshnut]

What is a good and bad years for used Tesla?

[@commanderroddi7742]

I would, unless you need it, keep the car at 70%-80%, and really, even with a car like a SR+ RWD model 3, that has a range of about 250 (I think) you get MORE range that most people would use on a daily basis. Even when DC fast charging, RARELY do I go above 85-90% (I may fill it to 100 at the beginning of the trip if I have time but that's not DC fast charging, I do that on a Level 2, and Even on road trips I keep it at around 90-95% because it charges SO SLOW after 85%! (and the most I ever went between chargers is around 160 miles) Maybe once in a while I'll do the first leg around 200mi, but rarely. (Did that with my CCS cars too). As for waiting... I would have prefer to get a 4860 Model Y, but I needed a car right away at the beginning of this year (2023) for work; since the price on Model Y was reduced (and the had a MOdel Y Performance that had less than 20 miles with a tow hitch available in my local area/inventory, I got it (may replace it in a year or two for the new battery pack, but for now, its astill a great car!). apparently Toyota engineers disassembled one to study it, and called it a work of art :)

[@Built-4-Drama]

Thank you so much for this video!

[@riothegrey]

Hey, thought I should mention LFP batteries do not have a memory. I assume the reason they allow the charge to 100% is because their cycle life is 3000-5000 vs nmc which is ~1000.

[@marcusbiller867]

No, the reason is the voltage. Because the BMS measures V difference to calculate SoC it needs to go to 100% to be able to calculate properly, because the V on LFPs is about 3.65% at the top and 3.45 at the bottom as opposed to 4.2V and 2.5V on NMC. Also, 1000 cycles (even if true, most likely more with BMS and cooling/heating) is about 300,000km for about 85% battery retaining. Do you expect to drive 300,000km?!

[@riothegrey]

​@@marcusbiller867 So, my experience with LFP is a DIY ~30kwh 16s2p (51.2V, 560ah). So I agree that the top voltage of LiFePO4 is ~3.65V, but I am not too sure where you got the 3.45V for the bottom? The nominal voltage of LiFePO4 is ~3.2v, and common bottom voltage is 2.8v (I believe u can go all the way to 2.5v though). Most modern off grid systems know not to use voltage to calculate SoC, as the discharge curve for lifepo4 is so flat. Most systems use a smart shunt, to measure the amount of ah that have gone in and out of the battery, and use this to calculate SoC. So my question is this: do we have any sources that show that Tesla uses strictly voltage to calculate the SoC? Personally, I don't think they do, because when under load the voltage sags, and you cannot get an accurate measurement until the battery is 100% at rest.

[@discocalyppo]

I have a 2022 M3 LR with the LG E5LD battery. If I understand correct this is still a NCA battery and it should not be charged at 100% for the daily trips?

[@stephen2220]

Hi Andy, great battery tech info, thank you! I would like to purchase a 2023 Model S Plaid NOT a 2022, when should I place my order? The Tesla website states that if I place my order now I get a delivery date of July & Sept, 2022. I'm sure if I place it now I'll receive a 2022 model, so how much longer should I wait to place my order? Should I order in Sept then delay delivery? the only way I'll know if I'm getting a 2023 is when Tesla provides me with a VIN#. Your help would be greatly appreciated!

[@CollabifyMedia]

Makes more sense that a new version of an existing vehicle like the SR+ will get a different batter (LFP or likely 4680). Otherwise you create a problem with order cancellations or postponements, fighting for a 4680 over 2170, and a logistical cutover nightmare. Guarantee Tesla won’t do something like that for it’s shareholders. I have a hard time seeing MYLR or MYPs come out with 4680s until all manufacturing facilities can accommodate and then sunset the 2170 models. They’re not going to make the same model with both batteries at the same time for a very long time, so you’ll probably see LR and P (probably P sooner with the less demand) with the 4680s when production and supply of the 4680 can accommodate the entire line at Fremont and Texas. Also, the Texas Y’s spotted in the lot on the trucks ETC are confirmed not performance. Likely SR+

[@npradeepkumar]

It is great to now know that Tesla has started rolling out Model Y's with the new 4680 cell batteries. I wonder when we will hear about Tesla using these batteries in their Model 3's or other models.

[@navehori9075]

They’re currently going into new model y’s at the Austin factory

[@maryhadda8420]

Structural battery = non-replaceable battery. When the battery fails, tow the car to a recycling center because it's dead, dead, dead.

[@evwiz]

Not it isn’t. Cell vs module. Cells can die but the pack won’t.

[@OptimisticPrime2357]

Wow, fantastic video with knowledge I must have to assist in my decision. I'm looking at a Model 3 Performance but I feel I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as the lease on my current vehicle runs out the first week of November. If I make the order and is ready for delivery before the end of my lease, I can't/don't want to be paying on 2 cars at the same time but as I also work at a hospital, I cannot afford to be without a car... I have to be ready at a moment's notice! I am stuck in quite the quandary. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[@SpressoX3]

Buy the car at the end of the lease. Then sell it at a profit when your new car is ready.

[@OptimisticPrime2357]

@@SpressoX3 Thanks for the input! I have thought about and mulled over that scenario much. With the way Tesla keeps increasing their prices, I didn't know if it would be a good idea to order now and lock in at a potentially lesser price. But then again, I have been bit by the new car bug and I'm jonesing for the Model 3 Performance pretty bad! Hahaha

[@thegreatempire3882]

Hopefully EVs will be further along in 5 years. Just bought a 2022 Blazer and I’m eyeing a Cybertruck or the the teased Chevy Blazer SS.

[@robertgoodman8977]

Hi Andy et al, I have a model 3 2020. Does anyone know how far I can drive on a flat tire if 1 tire happens to go flat? I have michelin tires that came with the car. Thx!

[@RT-rv5be]

Since Teslas do not come with runflat tires (nor a spare tire) from the factory, you should not drive on a flat tire. In the event of a flat, pull over to a safe area as soon as possible and call roadside assistance.

[@Pehz63]

How are you able to delay delivery? I didn't get my delivery date until right after my VIN, so wouldn't I be unable to get a newer vehicle by changing the date because they'd just keep my same vehicle stored until that date?

[@maribelrodriguez8714]

Hi Andy, I wasn’t told anything about my Model LR when they dropped it off March 2022. I just realized today by watching your videos how to find the battery type. I have LFP but I’ve only been charging it to 80% since I’ve had it. Will this affect the battery life?

[@jl7487]

It will. Start doing 100% most days

[@mattpak13]

Hey Andy For 2021 standard , do you happen to know what kind the battery is?

[@matsv201]

Its really just two chemistry, the tabless cell is NCA as well, just a other way of physically produce them. Tesla also produce NMC cells, they are physically identical to the NCA once, but have a different chemistry. Those are used for the powerwall and also suppose to be used in the trucks.. but i kind of think they are going to go for LFP now when that technology is closing in on energy density and both NMC and NCA is getting more expensive to produce.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

The energy density won't "close in" (Nickel based chemistry will advance as well) However, LFP will advance to the point where it's in the performance window of existing 2170 based PACKS. A car with an LFP *structural* pack, placing it in the performance window of an existing 2170 car? 300 miles? That's an interesting proposition.

[@matsv201]

@@rogerstarkey5390 No not really. Nickel based on is much closer to the deminishing return end of the spectrum. If you talking about catching up.. well no, it will never do that. Its also the question of volumetric density and mass-energy density. I´m coming back to this. Solid/dry cells are coming up, they are getting close now. But there is one problem. Solid cells expands and contracts significantly when charged. This is a problem that i think never will be solved, so they have to work around it. Pretty much all cells today are rolled, even prismatic once. They are just rolled on a rectangular dummy, in steed of a circular. This is a problem to dry cells because they will rip them self apart if they are rolled the wrong way. There is a solution. Stack the cells in steed of rolling them. While this may sound simple, its incredibly difficult to make this automated. This is pretty much the reason why every lab in the country have dry cells testing, but they are nowhere to buy. This is solvable, but hard. But i would say its probobly closed to months then year before someone have a working automation line. The thing is that LFP benefits much more from being dry cell than NCA does. And not, its really only the volume that is effected, the weight is only marginally effected. Typically 5-10% on weight and 15-30% in volume. But having the cells stacked in steed of rolled also increase volumetric energy density, even compared to prismatic cells. So its both a drawback and a benefit. Thirdly, the dry cells is less sensitive to temperature, specially so low, and they are also more effective, so they need less cooling. Again increasing density. Mitsubishi made a simulation unit where they took a part of a i-Miev battery and replaced it with dry cells. And run it in a bench car set up. They mange to cram about twice the capacity in to the same space, but the battery was considerably heavier. Both solid state, as well as LFP (and also LTO)... Back to tesla. I think they have to go prismatic in the long run anyway. So its probobly more economical for them to take the hit today, and have the packs ready for when the cells are available. Off cause, if they are prismatic, you really can´t do them structurally (or well, less advantage anyway). I would guess that tesla can cram 75kWh of solid state LFP cells into a model 3. BUT, the pack will be significant heavier.

[@davycrocket2282]

By postponing the delivery of your Model Y (if indeed you can still do that without Tesla cancelling your order), you might get a new type of battery. But, if the battery's size is such that the car's range is actually less, as suggested by the addition to the Fuel Economy website, then wouldn't it be better to have the older type of battery?

[@gottofly2]

I too am hoping for the new 4680 in my LR Model Y, which was scheduled for delivery June 14th. It has now been rescheduled for August 14-October 14th. I live in SW Utah, which is definitely in the Fremont CA delivery zone. What do you think this delay means?

[@kerrie9479]

I live about 2 hrs from Fremont here in Cali and my Model 3 I just ordered last week has the same expected time frame. I thought being not that far from Fremont I might get it sooner but I guess not. The demand is so high right now, it’s hard to predict what factors are affecting delivery dates.

[@gottofly2]

@@kerrie9479 Agreed! My original delivery date was June 14, 4 months from my order date. I ordered in late January. It seems they are pushing out the delivery dates of the non-performance models and those without FSD. I'm hoping with extra 3 months, my chances for the 4680 battery will improve, but its a great car either way and I'll be happy either way.

[@hassan1062]

Don’t think the delivery distance really matters to them, they are just backlogged on making their cars due to such high demand and orders. Hope you get your cars soon!

[@andrewskaterrr]

How are you going to delay your Y to then hope they upgrade you to a new one? You said you’re a couple weeks away, so you should have your VIN already, and I’m sure your car is already being built, so how would they upgrade you to the new one?

[@AvalosTokyo]

Hey, Andy. You forgot to mention the 12V battery in the Frunk. JUST KIDDING! Too many experts in the comments reminding you that you forgot to mention something

[@buzzpedrotti5401]

Thanks. It's nice to see the gradual promising improvements in the EV mix. Plug in hybrids are making similar improvements. When my paid for ICE vehicle wears out in 15 years, there will be lots of proven options. Hope they remain affordable.