Myth Busting, Muzzleloading and Black Powder Misinformation

Can you weigh black powder substitutes?
• Can you weigh black po...
Black powder, Weight vs Volume
• Black powder, Weight v...
Why do people say this about black powder 45 Colt?
• Why do people say this...
Can you use Pyrodex in a Flintlock?
• Can you use Pyrodex in...
Black powder and smokeless. There’s a big difference!
• Black powder and smoke...
What Causes A Chain Fire?
• What Causes A Chain Fire?
Long Distance Smoothbore
• Long Range Smoothbore

[@albertforletta1498]

I have personally seen the pipe bomb effect, and 3 people were injured. Immediately after the explosion a UFO landed. Aliens did surgery on the injured right there at the range, and saved their lives. For some odd reason, even with their superior technology, they were unable to fix the muzzle loader. Thank you for the time and work you put into your videos. You are greatly appreciated.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

😂

[@billdlyaegra9394]

this is false and you may have been temporarily blinded and traumatized by what you witnessed. the truth is i was also there standing back a bit because i was not in that group. the aliens were able to fix the rifle and even made improvements turning it into an m16. the shooter who screwed up was none other than eugene stoner.

[@banjowoodsman7675]

Lmao really😂

[@Clarence_13x]

I can confirm, I was the UFO, and I clapped.

[@solomongrundy9735]

😱

[@fhorst41]

This video reminds me of the story about General McClellan talking to his aid department camp about how they were going to need to get the engineers to come up and determine how deep the creek they had come upon was, and George Armstrong Custer, hearing this, rode his mount to midstream and called out "It's this deep, General McClellan !"

[@Darth_Boons]

I really appreciate watching someone with common sense and a brain

[@Paul-45-70]

That is a rare commodity these days.

[@JK-dn4pu]

The most insane thing I am asked at the range while plinking with the black powder revolver is, “Could that actually kill somebody?” It’s happened more than once.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Lol

[@dragonhealer7588]

I wish I hadn't read this. Makes me want to avoid gun ranges. Or at least that one!

[@Cambpro]

People are stupid

[@beargillium2369]

More horses than men died in the civil war, so it can kill a horse for sure 😢

[@JoeSyxpack]

I think there are people who believe that improved weapon efficiency is directly related to hard hard it is to kill someone. Like we're slowly getting bulletproof or something.

[@BertieW0oster]

I'm glad to hear the 'black powder air gap' isn't really a problem... it doesn't make sense that this should cause a problem anyway, I never understood the reasoning but always worried about it.

[@Krowka666]

You’ve really become my favorite muzzle loading channel in general. Thanks for another super informative video.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

thank you!

[@63DW89A]

I've been told at several ranges that I cannot load my C&B revolvers directly from the flask for safety reasons. I've challenged the "Safety Nazi's" to provide a historical example of a flask explosion occurring during the loading of a C&B revolver. To date (OCT 2022), searching all the way back to about 1835, I've found no example of that EVER happening, and NONE of the "Safety Nazi's" have been able to find any example either. If a procedure is banned due to fears of something happening that has NEVER occurred in 187 years, then it is logical to close all ranges due to the possibility of getting struck by lightning while shooting because getting struck by lightning is far more likely to happen than a flask explosion while loading a C&B revolver! We live in a sea of modern Illogical Stupidity.

[@keithmoore5306]

you'll probably have to go back to matchlock days to find that!!

[@williamnye478]

I've been shooting black powder revolvers for over 40 years, and have always loaded straight from the flask (when I wasn't using paper cartridges). I've never had any kind of problem with it, so I would say those Safety Nazis are full of it. Now, with muzzle loading rifles things may be different. Burning embers are left at the breech of the barrel, and those can definitely ignite a flask full of powder. That has happened in the past. Also, you need to make sure the stopper is in your powder horn before you fire your rifle or musket. There's just a chance of a spark getting inside the horn, and turning it into a grenade. I've seen that first-hand. It pays to be a little careful, but not to the point of stupidity! I've never heard of a flask exploding from loading a revolver directly, either historically or in modern times.

[@nategross7568]

Haven’t you ever seen the movie Idiocracy? Mike Judge was a prophet, I could just about swear.

[@rre9121]

If they didn't want me loading my pistol from the flask they shouldn't have put a measuring spout on it. 25 grains of 777 it is.

[@keithmoore5306]

@@nategross7568 so was John Carpenter with the escape movies!! both new york and LA!!!

[@meowmix5535]

Regarding the air gap in cartridges myth, fun fact, in the 1900's the Frankford Arsenal loaded 45-70 gallery loads with 20 grains of 3F and leftover 230 grain 45 colt hollow base bullets. So yes, air gap was deemed completely safe even back then by the government arsenal. UMC and private manufacturers also loaded as little as FIVE grains of powder and a 140 gr round ball in 45-70 indoor gallery loads.

[@meowmix5535]

Here's a link with proof americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2017-B116-Military-Marksmanship.pdf

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Excellent, thank you

[@jtcustomknives]

I think the air gap or light charge issue only shows up in a few smokeless powders. And even then I can’t find any documented proof of what caused it. Only the claim not to use W296 for light loads.

[@SuperSneakySteve]

I'm glad you're debunking myths with real experience. Great video.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@johnatkins9401]

Hello, my name is John Atkins, I have been living and working in the south of France for the last 35years. I am now retired and single. So to get to the question. I have always loved history, and old gun's, so I watched some of your videos. The most honest and well presented. I made my own black powder, which seems to work fine, but I am still a novice. The best gun in my small collection is a 50 calibre HOWDAH. I have charged it with 110 grains of said powder. Do you think this is to much? I bought the wrong patches, so I made some cork wads. The ball size is correct. Please let me know what you think. And please keep on doing the videos. Regards John Atkins.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Howdy, John. 110gr will be a very stout charge if you’re using corned powder. If it’s screened powder the recoil will be more manageable. Either one will work

[@johnatkins9401]

@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you very much for your quick reply.

[@woodswanderer7274]

I haven't seen a barrel burst but I have seen a barrel bulged about 2" from the muzzle from not ramming the ball down to the powder. This is how it happened. A lady in our black powder club was loading her rifle (Thompson Center .45 Cal Seneca) and only ran the ball down a short way with the starter when the range officer called a cease fire (during a cease fire we don't handle our guns until a cal that "range is now open." When the firing line was soon opened for shooting she then forgot to run the ball the rest of the way down to the powder. When she fired the rifle it sounded different, more muffled than a boom. We all looked at her rifle and saw the bulge in the barrel. It was more so on one side than the other. She sent her gun to a gun smith and had a few inches cut from the muzzle of the barrel and the front sight moved back. Her rifle was okay and shot as before the mishap. Since that time when the range officer calls a cease fire he will also say "If anyone is in the middle of loading continue load then bench your rifle." This is to ensure that this won't happen again. I was an eye witness to the incident.

[@oldgysgt]

Now, I wasn't there, but if you're saying gas pressure generated by black powder, "bulged" a barrel at one spot, I have a hard time believing that. At a given point in time, the pressure is nonuniform in a pressure vessel, and I cannot imagine why a bulge would form at one point unless there was a flaw or weak point at that location. Barrel bulges usually form at the point a bullet hits an obstruction, and is brought to a sudden stop. Try reading Hatcher's Notebook, (by Julian S. Hatcher), he explains why this is the case.

[@KarlHeckman]

I appreciate your work. Logical , reasonable, AND you do it yourself. I'm an old guy, I've owned a percussion Hawken style 45 cal, a fliintlock Tennessee Mountain rifle by Dixie Gun Works, a Remington New Model Army copy, and a genuine Colt 1851 Navy 2nd Gen. I made every "mistake" at some point because i didn't know you couldn't. However, I've never damaged a gun. In the 80s (I think) a gun writer published an article trying to blow up a muzzleloading rifle. It might have been Venturino, that's his style. The writer had to work hard to blow up a rifle barrel. The thing that did the trick was a gross overload, on the order of a quarter pound of powder, with three slugs spaced 6 inches apart. On firing the muzzle-most slug cocked sideways and jammed it up enough to split the barrel. Photos were included. The takeaway is- it's hard to blow up a muzzleloader with black powder.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you. Yes I would imagine multiple barrel obstruction would do the trick.

[@TXGRunner]

It was Sam Fadala and he did demonstrate a barrel blowing up with a gross overload, but what he did do is demonstrate how a mild overload with an improperly seated ball caused a barrel "nut." The barrel was ruined, but there was never any danger of the barrel exploding.

[@TXGRunner]

It was Sam Fadala and he did demonstrate a barrel blowing up with a gross overload, but what he did do is demonstrate how a mild overload with an improperly seated ball caused a barrel "nut." The barrel was ruined, but there was never any danger of the barrel exploding.

[@bobpeters61]

My favorite "exploding muzzle loader" story is from the Civil War. I've heard that occasionally, a Civil War soldier (on either side) would forget the percussion cap in the heat of battle. "Click!" Then going on adrenaline and force of habit would go to "re"load as if he had just fired a shot. Thus loading a second powder charge and conical bullet on top of the bullet and charge already there. Then they put on a percussion cap, aim their next shot and "Boom!"

[@richardhughes7008]

I recall Dixie gun Works doing this test, multiple charges over top each other, even filling the barrel. The gun was fired, the barrel emptied, and no damage to the gun.

[@fjb4932]

Read report of many rifles having multiple powder charges and bullets loaded. ☆

[@Whitpusmc]

I did this once. We fired the gun under a mattress at a local range. It fired fine and have shot the gun many many times since. I can’t find any deviation anywhere in the barrel. That said, don’t do it.

[@fjb4932]

@@Whitpusmc Whoa...Whoa Whitey ! YOU did it, yet you're tellin' Me i cain't. No way, ain't No Way you can do it and i cain't ! Uh-hun, no way. ". . .and the PURSUIT of Happiness . . ." ☆

[@Whitpusmc]

@@fjb4932 Ah, me not TELLING you nuttin’ BUT I IS hoping you smarter than I is. Err, was? But let us know how you get along? Make one O them movin pictures!! BOOMIEE….

[@gregheaton2855]

With my homemade BP I am not very particular about classifying 1F, 2F, 3F separately so what I shoot mostly is a combination of all three and it has always worked well for me. When shooting a flintlock if I don't have 4F easily available, I prime with whatever I am shooting and seems to work as well as 4F. I have also never been able to tell a difference in accuracy either, but different quantities of BP do effect accuracy. Thanks for the myth busting and keep up the good work you are doing, I enjoy your videos.

[@johnmine5609]

In the open, trains of black powder burn very slowly, measurable in seconds per foot. Confined, as in steel pipe, speeds of explosions have been timed at values from 560 feet per second for very coarse granulations to 2,070 feet per second for the finer granulations.

[@raym2770]

Your right on. Do you think Daniel Boone carried different powders.

[@tomvawter4531]

Good video. I also use whatever black powder or substitute is available and that achieves the desired results. Historically, people used what was available. They didn't have Walmart or gunshops in every township, let alone online commerce. Most grew, raised, and gathered their next meal. Safety was secondary to starvation and feeding your family!

[@alvogel3448]

I have a Parker Hale reproduction of the 1858 Enfield Naval rifle in .58 caliber. The British-made, .58-caliber Enfield was the second-most-issued rifle to Union and Confederate troops during the Civil War. In the old documents, it was suggested that a "musket grade powder" be used. For years, until very recently, this was always assumed to be FFG. Consequently, all the books about firing these British throughout the 20th century and into the 21st specified FFG. FFFG was never mentioned. Some folks thought it was too fine-grained and would cause horrendous pressures. Knowing that this modern reproduction of the Enfield was exceptionally strong, I began experimenting with FFFG powder. Not only did I find it cleaner burning, and producing slightly higher velocity, FFFG expanded the hollow base of the Minie' bullet more reliably. Accuracy is slightly better with FFFG over FFG (both grades are Goex). A few years ago, an autopsy of British-made .58 caliber paper cartridges, dating to the 1860s, was conducted. It was learned that "musket grade" to the British meant a fine grade powder, more resembling FFFG than FFG. Vintage American paper cartridges contained a coarser powder, roughly equivalent to FFG; accuracy with the American Springfield was not as good as the Enfield. I've also used FFFG in my CVA Mountain Rifle in .50 caliber, with patched balls: slightly higher velocity, burns cleaner and seems to very slightly increase accuracy. "Don't use FFFG or you'll blow up your rifle!" is absurd, in my opinion. As long as you use a recommended charge, and not a squib load, any black powder rifle or shotgun should take FFFG just fine.

[@tomlubas1512]

I think your correct. A squib followed by a regular load blows most guns. The only catastrophic blows was some expert thrashes a weapon to show what modern powder does to a black powder gun.

[@WapTek123]

depending on strength/metallurgy etc MOST modern "black powder" guns can be loaded with smokeless , see also dram equivalent , like 1/6 or 1/10

[@redtra236]

@@WapTek123 True but you really have to know what you're doing. Treat it as reloading a brass case without a casing. This means your seating depth and powder charge just became much more critical than with black powder. Personally I think the risk even with pre-weighed charges is too much.

[@Levalto]

I'm so thankfull for someone did a video on this subject. I live in Turkey and there is literally nothing about black powder guns & reloading. I'm really into of it's history and use so I started to make my own black powder for some experiments. I just used a 3D printed little cannon then used different mixing ratios and granule sizes. I don't have much equipment to learn much but I could test their burning rates and ranges. Now I have a 36 ga lever-action shotgun and just wanted to learn how would it perform. So checked the youtube gun channels. I owe a lot of my knowledge to these channels since there aren't much channels in Turkey making videos about subject but about black powder loads, majority of the channels just confused me so much. At last I saw your video and memorized your face from how to make black powder videos then watched it. Im so glad that you made this video, it was a real relief for me.

[@noahmercy-mann4323]

No fudd here. I have, however, incurred the wrath of more than a few by telling them exactly the same stuff you have here. As for underloading BP (zero compression), I have seen a dramatic increase in fouling, which I SUPPOSE could lead to pressure issues if enough rounds were fired, but I think most repeaters would just get too crudified (sure, that's a real word) to function before that happened. Now, I will say that I loaded Goex 4f in 32 H&R Mag cases with 120 grain cast bullets w/BP lube, 1/16" compression, and fired from a Ruger Single Six, and suffered a bunch of split cases which I never encountered with smokeless or 3F. So at least in THAT instance 4F caused weird pressures. Another one of my favorite BP myths is that the "proper" charge can be determined by putting the ball in your palm and covering it with powder. LOL! Or the "shoot over snow or a white sheet and when there's no unburnt powder, that's the perfect load".

[@JWheeler331]

My brother’s sister’s dad’s son who is me never saw one blow up from any of that stuff. The ones who usually perpetuate those things are the ones with the least experience.

[@HobbiesHobo]

Historical misinformation is everywhere. Good info & good demos in this vid. Thanks. Mike.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thanks Mike!

[@ILoveMuzzleloading]

This is great! Thanks for sharing this stuff Jake. Love your commentary, always informative and a bit comical.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you, Ethan

[@ValMartinIreland]

It was a problem with double barrelled muzzle loading shotguns. When both barrels were loaded and the right was fired repeatedly, the left shot charge moved forward by recoil. If the left is fired, the gas pressure gets a free run for a distance and suddenly meets the shot charge, the momentum required to shift the shot might exceed the strength of the barrel wall. Modern barrels are stronger.

[@cristianespinal9917]

Great info. I've been told all those myths and probably repeated them as well. Great to see someone doing first-hand testing.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@richardhughes7008]

A good video. Thanks. I wish you had shot everything over the chronograph, it would have been interesting to see how velocities changed using different sized powders.

[@jamescooper2618]

Just found your channel and this was very interesting. There is much misinformation, rumors, and old wives tales out there concerning black powder shooting. There are some absolutes though that the average shooter needs to learn and be able to tell the difference. This usually only happens through experience.

[@Kap11th]

I have personally had the ball move forward on my Pietta 44 pistol. The only thing I noticed was that chamber sounded differently and was not accurate. However in my 357 magnum smokeless gun I was using Trail boss cowboy loads and got a squib that went un-noticed. I actually fired two more rounds and when the bullets didn't hit the hillside I stopped and took the gun apart. I had 3 bullets stuck in the barrel that I could not hammer out. I had to drill the bullets then bang them out. I had the proper charge in the cases, so I'm sure what happened. I quit using cowboy loads in that pistol with trail boss. As always your videos are founded on actual facts and not BS. And I always return to watching them numerous times. All of these Black powder myths are based on old wives tales from people who heard it from somebody that KNOWS. Keep up the great work.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@equitemtemplarii981]

Great info and debunking, as always. Thank you!

[@allanmcdonald3223]

The only downside to loading a max load of 3F in a 50 cal Hawken, is that it kicks real hard compared to 1,5F. Using Swiss gives a harder kick anyway as it is a very good powder with great power per grain versus others, imho. I found an article online by someone using maths to calculate the most efficient load for the specific barrel length/diameter combo. By his reasoning most people are overloading their guns on a daily basis. So as you said, the granulation shouldn't matter much, as the guns were proofed at way over a "normal" charge anyway. Happy shooting

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Interesting. I’ve heard folks talk about this math equation. The way I see it is if your muzzleloader is most accurate with a 60gr charge of 3F and less accurate with 40gr charge of 2f but the math says the 60gr charges is “overloaded” well, who cares? It’s not going to harm it at all so you might as well use the load that is most accurate.

[@curteaton]

This video is evil genius. I've seen so many times that there cannot be an air gap, that I could have sworn that it was on this channel too. Now I have to rewatch the entire back catalogue to check

[@KathrynLiz1]

Air gaps are inadvisable as velocities and accuracy can be very variable with them, but the hazards are small.

[@stefannegler7576]

It's all about consistency. It's easier to put the ball/bullet on the powder with the same force as estimate the distance of the airgap repeatedly.

[@bjmaguire6269]

I wondered why the air pocket would matter, I suppose it might impact consistency if anything. I do believe that an improperly tempered high carbon steel can be dangerously brittle. I have heard that mild steel can actually be safer because it yields slowly instead of catastrophically. Thank you for your excellent videos!

[@SlickSixguns]

Nice to see someone try it out, thanks for sharing

[@sasquatch885]

Excellent! I have to admit I’ve fallen for one or two of these myths.👍🏻

[@stevetodd693]

I would like to see the air gap, 45Colt in a SAA. And a 2 inch air gap in a 50 or 54 caliber muzzleloading rifle and a 90 grain charge. Also chronograph readings of your 4f and 1f experiments would be interesting.

[@rabitsky]

Why just 2 inches air gap ? 20 inches would be more fun.

[@mackjenkins2878]

Keep up the good work. Would like to hear your take on seating flints.... Not trying to reinvent the wheel, but bevel direction? Distance to frizzen? striking angle to frizzen? I've had some frustrations on this front. Thanks

[@randyb168]

Much appreciated! I am new to muzzleloaders and learning what i can

[@SteveShivik]

Thank you for clearing this up! I’m new to BP- and I’ve heard these things too :)

[@Michael-rg7mx]

If I had to theorize. I would wonder about a thin material, like a shotgun barrel. Or a cast barrel on a cannon being susceptible to bulging or cracking. Modern forged steel is much higher strength. I think some of those myths began as what not to do if your trying to get the best accuracy. Then they got twisted to being dangerous. Old school black powder is safe. When loaded it has a maximum pressure of around 14,000. I have heard tests of double charges, double bullets, and forcing a bullet down a rusty barrel. The only failure I remember was a nipple blowing out. But I believe that to be poor maintenance and a lack of cleaning. Use black powder, not a substitute or a fireworks powder. And never think about experimenting with smokeless.

[@stevetodd693]

They say Walkers would blow up, i never saw it happen, and haven’t heard of a modern replica blowing up from an air gap. Steels are different. Black powder 32S&W revolvers shouldn’t be loaded with smokeless powder. It does depend on the steel. Modern muzzleloaders use metal that modern barrel makers would never use. Engineering has come a long way since 1830.

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

Never... use fireworks powder in a gun. That is called, flash powder, made with potassium chlorate (or perchlorate) and aluminum powder and it is silver (not black) and explodes violently and would probably end up worse than smokeless powder. Flash powder is an explosive in a category all its own and can not be used for a bullet powder in a gun.

[@wolfmaan]

Great video! I used FFFF (4F) at at 60 grain in my Hawken for over a year before a bunch of people told me I could have died. It worked fine.

[@wlmrtdrvr6729]

New to BP, so glad I found your channel. Thanks

[@joeyhardin1288]

Thank you. I must live under a rock or something but I have never heard any of these over my 3 decades of shooting smoke poles. But I learned a lot this morning. God Bless and stay safe.

[@davemeise2192]

Muzzleloaders are not overly dangerous unless, of course, one is standing in front of one. My brother has a custom built .75 caliber muzzleloader and he was told to start with 250 grains of 2F powder. Due to the caliber it probably should have been 1F. But eventually, due to recoil, he reduced his charge to 150 grains. His rifle was accurate, he still hunts with it to this day (40 odd years) and has taken many moose, deer and black bears with it. Also 40 odd years ago, I had a .58 caliber double rifle and I wanted to see what it would feel like if both barrels went off at the same time. I wasn't able to get both barrels to fire due to, I suppose, an interlock system so I loaded a double charge into one barrel and put two patched round balls in. Man that thing kicked when I fired it but nothing else happened. A friend has the rifle now and he still hunts with it.

[@namronx8246]

The thing about a short started ball causing an explosion may have grown out of the fact that a squib load in a revolver or a repeater constitutes a barrel obstruction which then can cause an explosion. Maybe that got carried over to muzzleloading in the from of the short started ball scenario.

[@308dad8]

Maybe but I think it’s always been touchy to ram the ball home. I suspect a short starter ball got placed not firmly against another ball and caused a bore obstruction and maybe only 1 ball was ever found and that’s it. I know some muzzleloaders put 2 balls in just look at Mark at Black Powder Maniac shooter and he does it in several videos. But part of the problem with bore obstructions may be the air that gets compressed causing a static pressure that’s greater than that of breaching the sides of the barrel.

[@jeffgenchi5863]

I really love myth busting videos. Great video. Thanks

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@richardlahan7068]

Thanks for dispelling these myths.

[@wittsullivan8130]

Smaller granules of powder have more surface area than larger granules, so they ignite faster. I guess modern steel has made a lot of the traditional safety measures moot. Except with smokeless, of course. I use nothing but 2f, but the smallest thing I've got are .44 cap and ball revolvers. I can't find pistol substitutes locally. 2f has a milder recoil from the slightly slower burn than 3f. The biggest thing I've got is a .75 caliber British Naval Carbine. I also charge the pan with what I've got in the main charge, 2f bp.

[@olskool3967]

amazing, i am 65 and been handloading since i was 10 years old in 1967, and have heard these myths, and believed some of them! me and a friend was talking the other day about the ball not being seated on the powder and it would "ring" the barrel. thanks for sharing this info and busting this bull,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[@KathrynLiz1]

I have personally seen ringed barrels from an air gap, but it doesn't always happen... in fact is almost always doesn't.... Still best to get that ball down on the powder though.... barrels are expensive... 😀

[@bluescatreimer]

I just found you on KZbin today, I really liked your video on the so called rules for black powder. I started shooting black powder revolvers in 1970 at 16 yrs old. I met a older gentleman that was a Colt & Winchester collector thru a mutual friend and he gave me the basic do's and don'ts for black powder shooting and he never mentioned any of the stuff you hear on KZbin nowadays. I was told 2 f worked best for rifles and 3 f worked best for revolvers but either powder would work in either gun if you could only find one or the other. I had never heard all the rules or dangers they talk about today. I use Pyrodex P now cuase where I live black powder is really hard to come by.

[@stevetodd693]

You can order black powder from Graf and Sons or Buffalo Arms (and others),most gun shop’s insurance wont allow black powder. I started a few years after you (1974 @ 18 years old) and was self taught, i loaded muzzleloaders strait from the flask for years. Always blew down the barrel before loading, and never had an issue (luckily)!

[@warlock.420]

Just subscribed, I love antique (and replicas of) black powder guns!

[@Bhartrampf]

I have had maxi balls frozen halfway down the barrel and shot them, as well as shot out three broken ramrods all out of the same gun, with no I'll effect. I always just thought that seating it just gave you better shot to shot accuracy. I agree with you, just like throwing live rounds in a fire, the brass moves more then the round. I have a eight bore that likes 2f, I have tried 1f, but I can only get a couple shots and had to clean it. Great video

[@JP-lq7wi]

Thanks for the video! So sick of my friend insisting I have to put wads or cards on top of my .45 colt charges to guarantee that there is no possibility of a C - hair of air space in there or I will surely die!

[@TightwadTodd]

Gotta admit, i heard em all too. We need more videos like this, for a lot of things out there. Just about everything i am involved with, has its perpetuated myths.

[@DeucesWildRC]

Love it! Debunked all the myths! Well done sir 👍

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@wildrangeringreen]

I love this vid, great job! What we do with black powder and "primitive firearms" looks like the dark arts to the modern shooting world, let alone the non-shooting population. No need to make it seem like arcane magic. I was surprised your velocity was as consistent with the under-loaded .45 colt (guess I learned something today) The difference in combustion rate between 4f and 1f is akin to the difference between Red Dot and Green Dot smokeless... not enough to matter in most general applications, but may be more ideally suited to certain things. If you actually weigh the charges out, you're not going to see much of a difference out the barrel.

[@BlackpowderBurner]

I’m more surprised that the navy didn’t have a cap jam

[@Everythingblackpowder]

😂

[@loneghostone6883]

at 11 minutes, i love just how casual you are with everything and it works fine! years of experience!

[@coreyhoffmann8277]

Great video Jake, I love these kinds of videos.

[@gregoryschmitz2131]

Its good to see this taken to its extremes to both see and understand the results or consequences (or lack of them). When I got going (revolvers) I was not sure how you determined you had compressed the powder as there are no indicator marks on the ram with a lable that says ball or conical (let alone the weight of conicals, balls should not vary too much)

[@someguy2741]

I think the issue with the air gap is a bit like super reduced loads in cartridges. What I was told is that lets say the powder was so low that the flash hole was exposed so that the spark could travel across the top of the powder and ignite the powder at multiple locations at the same instant. This would be like Pinging in an engine. Instead of burning from one end it would burn from both ends of the charge at the same time.

[@jtcustomknives]

I have seen this claim with powders like W296 and people saying it will blow up your gun. But can’t find any actual documentation on what happened and all the information refused it the issue.

[@fjb4932]

I forgot the writer, but seem to recall an article in Precision Shooting magazine in the late '90-early 2000's. He was trying to prove / disprove the current gun myth rage of the time, which was too little powder would allow the primer flame to "jump" over the top of the powder and ignite it from the front of the powder column at the same time it was burning from the rear. He was not able to reproduce what was excitingly refered to at the time as S.E.E. ( Secondary Explosion Effect ). Supposedly the two flame fronts would meet and cause a true explosion. Several powder manufacturers had tried ( and failed ), over and over, to obtain the same results a miniscule number of shooting range tactical commandos were reporting. In virtually every instance the one claiming he knew what caused damage to his firearm was also a handloader. Sometimes they'd "prove" their loads were correct by pulling a few remaining rounds and weigh the powder, somehow proving the cartridge they'd fired and that had damaged their firearm was therefore safe. Little mention was made of using the wrong powder, a squib load previously fired, and, more likely, a double charged case. Yet you Still see those with a little knowledge championing their darling S.E.E. cause. ☆

[@johntremblay704]

@@fjb4932 In a magazine article, I forget the magazine and the writer's name, a reduced charge of slow burning power was tested in a large volume case. The goal was to try and gather evidence of an SEE. During test firing over a chronograph, one of the shots showed a significant velocity spike. The author concluded that this was evidence of SEE. There wasn't a gun explosion, or any any damage whatsoever. At the time, there had been a lot of internet back and forth about SEE being a myth. The author used his results as "proof" that an SEE was possible. Obviously, the results of this "testing" must be taken with a large grain of salt. Since I don't remember the year, the magazine or the author, the same applies to this reply. Still, it's food for thought. I have always taught that you should not reduce a charge of slow burning powder below the minimum charge listed in a reloading manual. Not because the gun might "become a pipe bomb," but because of inconsistent ignition, pressure/velocity spikes, resulting in large extreme spreads. Any cast bullet rifle shooter knows that light loads of fast burning powder in a large capacity rifle cartridge isn't a safety problem, but there may be a large extreme spread in velocity, due to inconsistent ignition.

[@fjb4932]

@@johntremblay704 That's what i "Ment" to say, a Fast burning powder. I miswrote with " slow burning".

[@kirkterwilliger6407]

Thanks again Jake, another educational and funny post. 👍

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@jojoknucklehead]

Thank you so much for dispelling these myths with a demonstration, PROVING what you say is factual and what they say is BS. I may not have believed them but I’m not sure I’d have risked it to prove them wrong. You did. Much appreciated.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

My great great grandpa didn't ram the ball home, and when he fired his musket he shidded and farded!

[@lesliemiller5790]

I have found that even loading a BP firearm with a large powder load (even 200+ grains) would NOT be dangerous as long as the powder is somewhat contained, as in my observations, the excess powder exits the barrel and burns outside the barrel in a larger muzzle flame (I also believe that that is a waste of powder). I test my new guns to determine how much powder is just right (I will load a charge, shoot it in the dark while filming to determine if the flame is too big). I try to get my loads where the muzzle flash is about two (2) inches beyond the end of the barrel. To my understanding, this is a more efficient use of my powder, as any powder that burns beyond the end of the barrel has NO effect on the projectile.

[@james_lessick892]

Really cool video, thank you for the clarification.

[@rocklicker639]

Love it my man!

[@308dad8]

No smokeless in a Black Powder muzzleloader but there are smokeless muzzleloaders. They are very expensive and specialized for extreme long range muzzleloading so you don’t have one by mistake.

[@johncashwell1024]

I use Swiss 1.5F in my 44 cal revolvers; with loose powder or in my paper cartridges. No noticeable difference at all with how it shot or using my LabRadar. Heck, I have even shot my '58 Remington with my homemade bp (I make & use peach willow charcoal as the carbon ingredient) that was still in its un-pucked & non-granulated state which is super fine; so fine that each time I seated the ball, a little blackpowder cloud would 'poof' right out of the nipple! But it worked perfectly fine. I wouldn't do it again because bp is very messy in that state.

[@TheMusketMan98]

Enjoyed the video man very informative.👍🏻

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@308dad8]

I used Pyrodex RS and FF Goex with my Kentucky Pistol for the longest time, years. I have also shot a LOT of Pyrodex P and FFF Goex in it and I prefer the Goex to the Pyrodex. After watching several videos I tried FFF Goex in my CVA Wolf and again nothing bad. You are right though that you get told each granulation is for a specific gun type

[@63DW89A]

In black powder granulation use, my historical research of the mid 19th Century use in revolvers, indicates that Hazard Powder Company called FFFg "Rifle Powder", FFFFg, "Number One Pistol Powder, and "5Fg(modern Swiss Null B)" "Cartridge Powder". The very fine grained 5Fg was provided to makers of revolver combustible cartridges. I've used Swiss Null B in revolver combustibles and it works VERY well. In .44 Army cartridges for example, only 22 grains Null B will push a 220 gr conical at 940+ fps from an 8" barrel Army revolver. The only "danger" in revolver use of 5Fg is it is so fine grained that even with good nipples having tiny flash holes, loose loading from a flask allows powder to dribble thru the nipples, coating the breech face allowing a flare up that may cause a chain fire. So my only caution concerning 5Fg in a revolver is to use 5Fg only in combustibles, and to never loose load it from a flask!

[@billdlyaegra9394]

thanks for the testing and debunking. ive heard them all and never questioned it, just for safety. i will continue doing the same, however it is very reassuring to know the reality for when i make a mistake. thank you.

[@escamotagenouveau]

Just outstanding! This channel. This video. This guy.

[@RealDeanWinchester]

This isn't necessarily black powder related but there are two versions. 1. You can't shoot lead over 1000 fps, it will lead up your barrel. 2, shooting lead bullets will ruin your barrel.

[@FoulPet]

I've heard this is an issue with Glock hex rifling. Not heard it for anything else.

[@RealDeanWinchester]

@@FoulPet add that to the list, that's a good one too. There's no where for the fouling to build up with polygonal rifling. Thanks for that 😂

[@brasstard7.627]

@@RealDeanWinchester just today seen a comment saying if you try shooting 308 bullets in a 311 bore you have just made a pipe bomb, it was in reference to 7.7 jap type 99 sniper rifle that a guy was shooting for groups

[@RealDeanWinchester]

@@brasstard7.627 😂 the gun community is a science fiction fan's paradise 🤣

[@thinkingbill1304]

I'll bet a lot of this stuff came from boogie man stories and military drill or one-off anecdotes, told for generations until they have become fact. Bursting a barrel can be done in any gun. I have several display piece shotgun barrels all burst by firing a shot after a squib has left a wad mid way. Interesting to think on in the context of black powder and muzzle loaders. Good video as always.

[@michaelroach9751]

🤣, Enjoyed the video, demonstrations and commentary.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@chrisbaker6776]

I went to a rondyvos last year not having .570 balls for my 24 gauge trade gun .but lots of .530s . Heavy denim patch and shoot great .loads easy ,hit briquettes at 30 yds and 12x12 gong at 80 yds .love my musket . Great show mbaker

[@inglwud5625]

I wondered why people would ram the rod repeatedly onto the bullet its just deforming the ball. I guess its the pipe bomb preventer! Great video!

[@WapTek123]

in some ramming obtrudes the ball

[@Bayan1905]

As far as the granulation stuff goes, when there was trading done on the frontier and both settlers, Native Americans, etc. walked into a Hudson Bay Company or other place to trade their furs for powder and guns, do you think that there was a huge selection of powder in those days or on the shelves? Of course not, it was powder in kegs or casks and you got what was there. Same with guns in the French & Indian War, Rev War, etc. Near me at Fort Ticonderoga the French made their own powder and it was stored for use in both their muskets and cannons as well as passed out to the Native Americans loyal to the French. My guess is it was all the same granulation. I know that my CVA Kentucky Rifle in .45 that was my grandfather's and is some 40 plus years old, everyone tells me I SHOULD be shooting 3F out of it but the thing loves 2F and it works great in the gun. I prime with 3F in most of my guns instead of trying to worry about and track down a pound of 4F, never had any issues and that includes when I'm hunting as long as the flint is well knapped. It's amazing the stuff modern shooters worry about that were probably never even given a second thought back in the times the original guns were used.

[@jakedistlehorst6190]

First video I have seen of yours, I subscribed. Great stuff!

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@rooster3019]

Excellent presentation! Thanks. prs

[@williamnye478]

If you look at the breech of an 1863 Sharps you'll discover that every shot you put through it will have a certain amount of airspace. It does no harm, but I do wonder why they designed it that way. It definitely tells me that those claims of airspace blowing rifle barrels are a bunch of crap!

[@stevenmike1878]

i think it might have became a myth because someone had a misfire in battle. then seated the bullet but forgot to ram it from the stressful pressures of battle, making it a squib. then someone might of just concluded it was bad to not seat the bullet all the way, as a rule of thumb. and the story of why you always ram the round all the way needed an explanation by future generations. when it was just a precaution made to prevent blowing up guns from the very stressful volley fire days.

[@kbjerke]

Informative and amusing. Thanks!

[@jayecurry1369]

The only change I can see in not seating the bullet on the powder is an alteration in the poster's rate if burn, and thereby changes in muzzle velocity. You might do a test by comparing the muzzle velocities of a bullet firmly seated, halfway down the barrel, and 4-inches down from the muzzle, with identical charges. Besides testing the muzzle velocity, you might compare accuracy.

[@user-jb8fx8sb4e]

I have personally shot a full power load right after a squib with no issues. The squib ball was even still stuck in the end of the barrel. Didn't do anything to bulge the barrel, explode it, etc. All it did was mess the rifling up a bit in one spot. It also put a ring in the cylinder from the recoil shield. But I think people tend to overthink, and overreact before they even try to find out the truth. Why burn a bridge before you cross it? just to see if it will burn? Lol Great video btw! Glad to see these old wives tales (so to speak) getting debunked.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@beachguy19711]

Odd Regulation: You can't blow down the barrel after you shoot! Errrr....You just shot the darned thing! It should be unloaded!!

[@luuk-out-below9804]

Good one Jake!

[@314299]

Great video, thanks for the mythbusting.

[@dougmayberry9998]

It's not what you don't know that's dangerous. It's what you think you know, but isn't true.

[@blackhawk65589]

The one that gets me is "if you overcharge the gun, it will blow up!" I have told so many people that you can stuff the whole barrel full of BP and you are safe (well maybe not so with your shoulder). Like you said, I think people compare BP with smokeless and get confused

[@SpiritoftheOutdoors]

I saw TK and Mike do that 😂

[@KathrynLiz1]

Yes.. BP is not subject to the pressure excursions as are nitro powders, where the burning rate increases with pressure. BP doesn't do that to any real extent at all. I believe the French did some research in the 29th century in totally closed vessels and the highest pressure they could get with BP was about 120,000psi....... a level that could not be approached in a gun barrel with an open muzzle. Smokeless pressures go through the roof very fast...

[@deejayimm]

Well you also have to understand that people who are going to make a mistake like that are going to be newbies. When I bought my first cap and ball, I was a kid that didn't know anything about them, and the guy behind the counter sent me home with a bottle of 777. It's a good thing I kept looking at how cool it was, because it had hairline-split the cylinder in half.

[@saskafrass1985]

I was discussing a couple loads that I was working on with another guy, and surprisingly he freaked out. I was called all sorts of names. Until I figured out he thought I was talking about using smokeless powder with BP load volume. I was amused and explained it doesn't work that way. He finally agreed that I knew more than him, but he wasn't convinced I was doing anything safe. Incidentally it was 80 grain target loads in a Kentucky 50.

[@briannelson4493]

I made the mistake once of loading my 54 cal buffalo rifle 120 grains of powder and round ball putting the rifle down leaving my range coming back and reloading now I have two charges with shot . It turned me 180 degrees about ruined my shoulder ,to this day that gun shoots as straight as can be

[@stanleyromanowski9816]

The modern steel used in the rifle barrels and pistols and revolver cylinders is actually pretty tough stuff compared to wrought iron or Damascus steel. The maker if my .50 cal flintlock recomends 70 grains of 3F in the barrel and 4F in the pan. Worked just fine for deer hunting for the last 41 years.....

[@blackpowderandbibles]

I can't believe you primed your pan directly from the container!!! There could have been a hot coal still in the barrel from 2 months ago that could have blown the can up in your hand!!! ;)

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one!

[@roywhiteman588]

I have a test idea. I keep hearing that you must use pure lead for patch and ball rifles. Makes no sense because the patch is what engages the rifles not the ball. Wheel weights are readily available and can be melted k to round balls. Would they be as accurate as the soft lead. Expansion when they hit? Who knows unless it’s tested.

[@timroot4207]

Thank you !

[@arkansasnaturalstate]

the more I watch your video's the more I like you because you did the same shit me and my brothers did 40 plus years ago :)

[@lorenray9479]

As a teen an old man had a cannon breech 12 ga. We ran out of old paper shells. New fangled plastic hull dove and quail would pop open the breech in rain. There were rings in the barrel.damascus? Well maybe it twer a black powder shotgun before they labeled them as such. Never blew up, but got loose as a goose.the choke was a squeeze at the muzzle. Maybe a short start in a very thin old gun might blow. I saw natives load home brew from baskets. A palm of mixed fluff worked in it for 100+ years. Rodents and jungle birds were filled with swan shot. Do not be affraid kidders. Relax! Relax! Hoho

[@theoriginalOSOK]

I think the idea of compressing the powder is to provide a more consistent burn. Smokeless powder is often loaded with space in the case - in fact, most of the loads feature some empty space.... good topic though. Wait! Wait! Did you load SIX rounds in your revolver? Oh man... I'm surprised you made it out of that test alive...

[@paulmartin6895]

I learned alot from here thanks for the details on it.

[@jerrybrush3859]

Thank you! These myths never made sense to me. I have asked in forums all over the internet for someone to explain to me how leaving an air space in a black powder cartridge would blow up your pistol but leaving an air space in a smokeless cartridge is perfectly fine. No one never could but everyone knew someone who knew someone else that had heard about it.

[@duacot6633]

I'm pretty sure 1f is larger which slows down the burn rate to give a "softer" push. 4f is fine and burns quicker thus faster push. Might want to re-test your pistol experiment. Great video! Get people talking and make them think!!