N. T. Wright on Atheism

[@christophertaylor3150]

Let's welcome challenges to other worldviews. Lets enter into dialog with them. Lets bless them even when they curse us. Remember, we are the only ones under the mandate to love our enemies because we were all at one time God's enemies too. May we give the same grace we have been given.

[@bman5257]

Amen

[@emmanuelpiscicelli6232]

Christians are liers that hate.

[@deadfileman]

I gotta say..I think he's being pretty moderate. Adressing the fact that many atheist writers, while brilliant, do get their facts wrong is not really extreme. Just an observation.

[@robertlight6905]

What facts do we get wrong? Do prove your point.

[@braydynniewiadomski5454]

@@robertlight6905 One thing Hitchens got wrong, was his understanding of Jesus' teaching of 'not thinking about tomorrow' as not to invest or properly care for one's children, in a sense, to completely ignore the future. In reality, the passage at the end of chapter 6 of Matthew, from the Sermon on the Mount, was about not worrying about the future, for there are many texts in the Bible on preparing for the future and raising one's children in healthy ways that honor God and do not take us from a place of faith. I do not believe this is what Wright was referring to, but this is something I noticed myself recently, I have not yet read Hitchens' 'God is not Great' but I have seen many of his KZbin videos and used to be an atheist myself, and believed a lot of his misunderstandings of Biblical texts, to be, well, gospel. May God bless you to see through the lies to His glorious light that was manifested in Jesus, Robert! Amen.

[@braydynniewiadomski5454]

@CJ P. Come now, that isn't helpful.

[@joshafennell]

My friend that is a bad argument using Ezekiel 18, for the dealing of that passage is about transference of sin from father to son. What happened in Newtown and Aurora are examples of evil men doing evil things unto evil ends, and the righteous and the unrighteous are often times caught up in these events together. What I think your missing from Rick Perry is that reacting to these events with gun control laws does not help the families in the end, for it will not stop the violence.

[@FourtyParsecs]

Well put. I'm glad to see a Christian leader in the spotlight who doesn't have an ax to grind against the Atheist movement, but can see it in a positive light.

[@Morgan_1464]

Being saved, is the reference that we can have a relationship with such an awesome God who loves us all. if you deny the relationship you deny the salvation and his free gift of his one and only son dying to save us from our sins, making us unredeemable.

[@Morgan_1464]

he is referring to the flood, and im sure there were children, but we have a merciful and loving God who goes above and beyond in his actions to show he loves us.

[@Morgan_1464]

for if a person sins, i ruins a relationship with God, so its up to them to either struggle with their sin, or struggle with God. by struggling with God it makes it hard to grow a relationship with him.

[@Morgan_1464]

5th. Children deeply appreciate it when both parents are equally comfortable sharing their religious traditions, places of worship, and thinking, and when they sense a balance of power between parents. When one parent is the “out” or “odd” parent with a religion that differs from the rest of the family, the child may sense the lack of family unity, and may even interpret one parent as dominant and the other as submissive, misguided, or even in moral danger.-

[@Morgan_1464]

8th. The sense that learning about both religions is radical or controversial actually appeals to teens and young adults, engaging them at precisely the moment when many youth lose interest in religion. I know plenty of churchs that keep working for others like giving food to the poor, praying over people in need of love, and building houses for the homeless. for ages of 10- 80 all of them work for a common good, which is to show love to their "neighbors".

[@TheSmithDorian]

You make some excellent points. I think you've offered a valuable new perspective here that will provide food for thought to many of us going forward. It's increasingly rare to see real insightful substantive comments being posted on You Tube, so thanks for that.

[@billybagbom]

SOmebody flagged your next comment as spam, but when I looked at it, I did not understand why. It would appear someone is trying to sabotage this dialog. I will try to respond to your enquiry later (like after work).

[@Morgan_1464]

10th. Celebrating both sets of holidays, and studying the intertwined history of any two religions (particularly any two of the three Abrahamic faiths-Judaism, Christianity and Islam), creates a rich synergy. No religion ever sprang full-blown into the world, out of nowhere. Each religion is woven from the strands of previous traditions, and discovering their historical interconnectedness is deeply satisfying to those of us in interfaith families. -

[@FlintSparkedStudios]

He's got that view of understanding all the angles of situations instead of viewing it as a two sided argument. I really like that. You see a lot of videos on KZbin about religion and atheism with "versus" and "destroys" in them. Suggesting we are to assume what we know is 100% correct and should argue for that completely. Isn't that a bit arrogant to do?

[@MrSomethingscary]

well i'm glad to hear that last part. most people who hate God usually say that even there was evidence for Him they wouldn't accept it. so at least you're honest. your predicted honest reaction to a God doesn't constitute evidence that justifies the claim that benefiting from Jesus' life and death is immoral imo. niether does it seem capable of proving present humility for the one who will worship in the future when it's mandatory. what are your beliefs about Jesus? historical? useful?

[@Morgan_1464]

i believe there was a book in the bible written about these types of discussion, i believe it was Paul who wrote a letter to the Churchs of Rome regarding this type of thing.

[@Morgan_1464]

1st. Children have the right to understand and appreciate both cultures and religions represented in their family tree. Withholding information or explanations about this background can create resentment, or a sense of the suppressed religion as “forbidden fruit.” This was my own experience, growing up in an interfaith family without any education about my Christian side.

[@Morgan_1464]

6th. As parents, we cannot ultimately control the religious identity of our children anyway. All adults can, and many do, switch religious affiliations in adulthood. Giving children some basis in both familial traditions gives them a better basis for making a choice or shifting labels, rather than forcing them to start from scratch in learning a new religion. From what you told me, i would figure you have had to find a new truth after learning about your other belief.

[@Morgan_1464]

2nd. Children who are equally rooted and equally comfortable with both sets of extended family may feel they have greater family support from both sides. So i would figure you would understand this second reason.

[@alex123superface]

You're almost right. The word murder means premeditated and deliberate, whereas the word kill means one being taking the life of another being regardless of circumstance. And I believe that any person killing another person is always wrong, regardless of circumstances (I'm against the death penalty, but thankfully I'm British and we don't have it here)....

[@billybagbom]

I think it's interesting how often, in books and interviews, N.T. Wright is careful to differentiate between what passes for Christianity in the modern West and what one might still explore as Christianity emanating from the East.

[@alex123superface]

You'd hardly be able to argue that the other meanings are exactly positive though, right? And I do agree with you, sometimes threatening someone can be effective in preventing a greater evil. But that doesn't change that the word threat in and of itself is loaded with connotations of suffering, no matter who is on the receiving end of it, whether it's justified or not.

[@Morgan_1464]

5th continued, So if one is out and the other is in, and the child believes in that religion they will try to convert the other person who is out, and doesnt create a good family unity, that is where i sometimes question if an athiest should life and say they are a believer in the faith, because it would at least create a family unity, and the athiest or no believer would no have anything to worry about in the after life.

[@Morgan_1464]

7th. continued, basically the ability to control your child’s label is limited once they go out into the world, and the cognitive dissonance created by conflicting criteria in different religions and denominations may diminish your ability to make a particular label stick. so in your chase you were the child and when you went out into the world your label didn't stick, im glad because if you don't have the truth then that makes life tough, but good for you parents to raise you with a religion.

[@Morgan_1464]

4th. Some interfaith families abandon religious education altogether when they cannot agree on one religion. But interfaith adults raised with “nothing” sometimes express regret and frustration at their own religious ignorance. If both parents are unified in passing on an atheist, secular humanist or ethical culture perspective (different from choosing nothing), that’s fine. But for me, teaching both is vastly preferable to avoiding religious or ethical education altogether.

[@billybagbom]

Billy: I don't think a lot of people understand your particular way of "spoofing" the popular scientism and secularism of the present day. Therefore, they think you are being as serious as (apparently) many of the KZbin heretics, and they give you thumbs down. I happen to know that you personally take a different view, and that you are satirizing your philosophical and religious opponents. I give you a thumbs up! (Love,-- Billybagbom)

[@jeffyoungblood1863]

oh, he's excellent, and another exception. Love LOTR. But where are the contemporary writers?

[@MrSomethingscary]

i suppose my version would be: "if there were no God i'd quit trying to worship Him."? honestly, i'd quit trying to worship Him if He's any different than Jesus. so, if there's no God, or a different God, i'd quit. yeah, sorry, i stuck you with the "hate God" crowd b/c most of the time those who pretend to merely deny His existence actually don't deny it, they just resent it. i recommend gary habermas on YT for history of Jesus. would you say atheism is more useful? how do you measure it?

[@Morgan_1464]

can a father be a father if his children deny him?

[@MrKerpelWatson]

I would like to see N.T Wright in a debate.

[@ericday4505]

I really like N T, I do but he never lets go an opportunity to take shots at the 'west', or America, watered down version of God, and listen he is brilliant and mostly on point, but in his books and some of his talks he always takes shots at America. This makes me wonder. Anyway the guy is a great New Testament scholar, he can be a little wordy in his books but he is on point.

[@dannymurzea]

You do realize when you talk about "western christianity" it's talking about Europe as well?? So he is talking about his culture just as much as ours.

[@ericday4505]

dannymurzea Fair enough.

[@polemeros]

He never misses an opportunity to be snide about America and American religion, when his own country has turned itself into a dog's breakfast and his own Church of England is a laughingtstock. Not an attractive trait of certain Brits.

[@FortheLuIz]

Does NT Wright address the children murdered in the OT?

[@jltc5478]

A LOGICAL REASON TO BELIEVE IN GOD... And all of the sudden, from nothing and out of nowhere, whatever now is came to exist on its own and by it's own NONEXISTENT matter and obvious powerlessness. That's hard to 'believe'; but some people 'believe' THAT!! So... The Biblical option is that God must and DOES exist and He must have created everything by His own power. But where did He come from? We all have questions... That's where FAITH comes into play. We either 'believe' that the universe and our world created itself out of nothing without God, or we 'believe' that God created everything. If God is real and there's a heaven and a hell, ONE DAY WE 'ALL' WILL FIND OUT. If we believed in Him as He calls us to, we will be rewarded for our faith. However, If He is real and we don't/ didn't believe then we will be punished for unbelief. We have lost/ will lose everything. That's a big risk to take. Like someone said "If you live like there's no hell (ie. without faith); you better be right!". HOWEVER, If he is not real and we believed, the end will be the same for EVERYONE, but we have/had lost NOTHING by believing. I BELIEVE IN GOD. It makes sense... It's even logical. Don't you think? What is Faith? The Bible defines it: Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction ofthings not seen (Hebrews 11:1) J.L.T.

[@alex123superface]

Oh and by the way, here's the dictionary definition of threat: A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone

[@Morgan_1464]

3rd. Whether they eventually choose to identify with one religion or with both, people who are religiously bi-literate, who know the stories and rituals of two religions, will have a greater understanding of world politics, history, culture and literature. So usually the religious would explain their relgion to people who differ, and would be taught the others relgion and find for themselves who is correct, or if the have no idea about their own religion, to learn of their own relgion.

[@DanPrinMan]

Honestly - but I can't say this about absolutely everyone - most serious Biblical scholars tend to keep their studies on the scholarly level and not so much on the popular. I think Wright would be a beast bhind the podium, but he does more good in his writing and personal dialogue with other scholars.

[@jtonna1624]

How is vicarious redemption morally corrupt? When one person gives up his life for the saviour of another is that a morally incorrect thing to do? It has been depicted throughout the ages as the highest form of moral goodness

[@richp860]

Those passages can both be correct if one considers the perspective of the authors. Some scholars believe this issue is solved very easily in suggesting that the author of Mark and John simply went by different calendars. Your charge that at least one of these accounts is factually incorrect is indeed factually incorrect. It's not a dichotomy as you seem to suggest.

[@Morgan_1464]

9th. The ability to see the world from more than one perspective, the interfaith child’s stereoscopic vision, has benefits beyond the religious domain. Many adult interfaith children testify that their interfaith status predisposes them to become natural peacemakers and bridge-builders. I would 100% agree with because of my personal experiences and my friends and family do agree 100% with this. Also being a peacemaker is how you make good character and is a key element to success.

[@Morgan_1464]

sorry to interupt your conversation, but im pretty sure the reason he made humans was the he desired a loving relationship with people and free will a given when he created us, in order for him to be a just and righteous God.

[@Morgan_1464]

What jesus says sums up the bible is Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor, and it even goes to tell how to love. some versions say love as i have loved you. please tell me if you need to be educated in the bible, because right now i can only assume. and as i said before tell me what you believe if you contradict me.

[@alex123superface]

That's a very well reasoned response. Although since God did actually go through with his threat (i.e. killing everyone), I personally would consider that pretty immoral if not downright evil. And I did intend for the word threat to carry a connotation of suffering (not evil), since that is the inherent baggage that comes with the meaning of the word.

[@Morgan_1464]

We are fallen people and that is easily seen through history, the old testiment people made sacrifices because they sinned, it someone was perfect and didnt sin, then they wouldnt have to make any sacrifice. the sacifice is meant to show when you do something bad it doesnt help grow a stronger relatioship with a perfect being and shows that something must be paid for your action. Our loving savior paid the biggest price with his life and died for us out of love.

[@Morgan_1464]

7th. Even if parents label their child with one religion, the outside world may reject that label. Jews will either label your children based on the religion of the mother (in the case of Conservative and Orthodox), or based on meeting certain litmus tests of Jewish practice (in the case of Reform). Meanwhile, Muslims go by the religion of the child’s father. Some Christians will label children based on whether they have been baptized, or “saved.”, or openly admit that they believe. -

[@billybagbom]

A man of Wright's stature doesn't descend to "debate." He "dialogues" with Bart Ehrman, on the Problem of Evil and Suffering. You can probably google it.

[@jeffyoungblood1863]

me and my wife are ministers who focus on the arts. we are both musicians and visual artists. We know what it is like to struggle in that, especially in the church, who often doesn't know what to do with creatives. And this is part of why the church is not making significant impact in culture. Bad Christian movies isn't going to do it. We need people of imagination walking in freedom! ok, off my soapbox now.

[@Morgan_1464]

The reason why Christian adults should teach there children this religion is that it is a proven fact that any child that grows up with a religion is much more sucessful in life and more happier. and if you truly believe there is no God then isnt that your main pursuit in life (happiness and sucess in what you do)? The morals of the Bible are a great add on to children to have in any carreer, and teachs the children to show love on this earth so that people will not kill or commit suicide etc..

[@alex123superface]

...And in the circumstances we've been talking about, i.e. that of the biblical flood, I would argue that there was a kind of law enforcement to stop them: God. He intervened in the affairs of humans several times before and after then, and of course during (he made the flood happen), but to argue that he couldn't stop them by other means doesn't make sense, given his supposed omnipotence...

[@alex123superface]

You only need to rationalise free will and find ways around it if you believe in the concept of a creator.

[@MrKerpelWatson]

true... but i still would love to see him in a debate.

[@Morgan_1464]

i also believe any loving Christian that has a great relationship with God would say that in a human relationship it is man and women, when they say this they do not say " o well man and man, and women and women are horrible, but they do stick with the Bible's thoughts. i do not believe that the first thing any religion should do is hate especially if they have such a loving God. The first the religious people should do is show love. and they it is up to those who struggle with sin-

[@DavidVonR]

Have you lived in Japan, Norway or the US?

[@alex123superface]

How did he reveal himself to you?

[@Morgan_1464]

i have already told you that i have read it 3x's all the way through and still do. nothing i said should contradict any of my former posts, unless i worded things weirdly. and the bible is clear on what it is all about, while you just focus on the old testiment, i focus on the whole book. Jesus says what sums up the laws and the prophets aka the old testiment, which is the Lord your God, and love your neighbor. i can tell you that is in Matthew 5 and Luke 10 clearly says this.

[@mawa89g]

I guess he's referring to the first half-sentence of Corinthians 1:18 while ""forgetting""/not understanding the following sentence & whole passage ;)

[@dalethorn2]

Jesus could read a person's intent - even the intent of a group such as the Pharisees. Jesus could read the intent of an evolutionist and see clearly that their objective is to clear away the burden of belief in God and all that it entails - humility, sacrifice, love for the unpleasant and unloved, worship of God instead of money and things, etc.

[@JaffarDS]

Great argument right there....

[@Morgan_1464]

i have actually read the bible 2 times as well, and going for a 3rd because i love this book and am willing to deffend it. John 3:16 " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." clearly God does love, i dont know about you but i could not be able to sacrifice a living be for the cost of another much less my son. not sure what you are trying to get tot in that comment about God makes everyone look human.

[@Morgan_1464]

Hell is not for the evil, but for those who do not acknowledge that excepting Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved from our sinful nature and brought into his unboundful love.

[@redneckvoodoo3572]

Okay? The definition of empirical evidence is data gathered by observation and or experiment. The problem is, when someone says the words "Its a proven fact", it now become their responsibility show the evidence that it is indeed a proven fact. Until then, it is all just personal opinion. In this instance, can you show any scientific studies that would support your claim of a proven fact? I don't mean studies by religious organizations, but by independent non-biased scientific reviews.

[@billybagbom]

Yeah, they all said I was crazy back at the Institute, but I proved to them that it IS possible to convert penicillin into moldy bread.

[@FlintSparkedStudios]

@perichoresis7 Emphasized enough to be understood as the most important thing, the thing that really matters. And reminds me, "So what if people disagree on some of the other details?" I think we'll find out some day.

[@FlintSparkedStudios]

@perichoresis7 That makes me think, if we are created in God's image, doesn't it make sense that he would make things like that intricate? Where some unfortunately are dismissive of such things like your example as a flaw, others can realize the deeper meaning. A meaning that is not over-analyzed or misconstrued, but just some genuine thought and historical understanding as opposed to a quick 100% literal interpretation. To me that is not doubting the credibility of the Bible, but respectful.

[@Morgan_1464]

ok, lets just say i am morally bankrupt. what are my evil acts that you acuse me of, i try daily to love just as my savior has loved me, and if that is evil fine, then ill try to be the most evil person in the world. i say my god because most people dont know who their God is and what his character is, but i know my God is a loving and just God who will never abandon me, and gives me what i need to succeed and love.

[@alex123superface]

And I'm not talking about them being born with handicaps, I'm talking about handicapping them after they sinned.

[@billybagbom]

What are the "most" factual parts, in your opinion?

[@Morgan_1464]

sry im getting back to your comment extremely late, sorry for the rudenss, but i have been busy, so sorry for that. ill read what you wrote and then respond in just a short amount of time

[@randyzabel]

This comment makes no sense. Where does scripture state the story of redemption makes no sense? Besides my comment was that how is the story of redemption immoral. Your comment does not address that point at all.

[@alex123superface]

I'm sorry but that does sound slightly like a cop-out, in essence you're telling me that you have to just be predisposed towards believing it to believe it. Basically, you have to be willing to just accept it, because you say that even if it's God's will, it still requires you to just accept it. What part does God play in this then? He sounds kind of ineffectual

[@redneckvoodoo3572]

Sorry to butt into your conversation, and I mean no disrespect, but I can give you many, many examples in my personal experience alone to disprove your statement. There is no empirical evidence to prove that a religious upbringing is any more conducive to happiness and success in life than that of a secular one. As one who grew up in the church and as one acquainted with many others like myself, I would say the opposite is closer to the truth.

[@Morgan_1464]

religion does have a purpose, that is a fact, in giving hospitality all the way to giving hope of a life after death.

[@jeffyoungblood1863]

He did. And most of them are really good, but he really is the exception, not the rule. And then there is G.K Chesterton, also, excellent. Other than those two, I can't think of one decent Christian writer of fiction/fantasy. And even those guys stopped writing 40 years ago. Christians, as Franky Shcaffer put it, are "Addicted to mediocrity"

[@raywingfield]

I can't help but notice that large neckless Mr. Wright is wearing, is it a amulet or charm, does it protect him like Mormon underwear?

[@Morgan_1464]

As for telling a religious person to go to hell is very offensive because that means that you would want them to endure a suffering that the Bible says you would not wish on your own enemies because of how horrible it is. And the people who generally wrote most of the Bible where a pharoh's son, a tax collector, and a persecutioner of Christians. proving that last comment very unfactual.

[@Morgan_1464]

That would prove he is an unjust God, who doesnt give us free will, and would make himself a liar.

[@MrSomethingscary]

Japan and Norway have better societies than the US? that's not telling me how you measure which is better, that's just telling me the results of your measurements. is it freedom of the individual? economic strength? amount of people trying to immigrate to the country? i know that the answer could be very complicated, but if i don't know how you're measuring the usefullness of christianity or theism then how can i engage with your claim? what does God represent to most primates/(humans?)?

[@Morgan_1464]

10th. continued, The rich tapestry of each interfaith family is a microcosm of the lively design of religious evolution through history. Scientists testify to the power of this type of “fractal” design, in which each small part echoes the pattern of the whole: fascinating, complex, and gorgeous. those are my points thanks for reading them if you do, and i am eagerly awaiting you reply, but if you question my reply's i ask that you be kind,and check out your evidence to support your statements.-

[@UrukEngineer]

"Why would I bother to read a book in which the author hasn't bothered to check his facts?" Why then did he read the bible?

[@lorenioooooas]

hahaha, but forreal there's literally been 2000 years of exegesis, analysis etc of the bible. Even by atheists themselves, the bible is probably the most studied/analysed etc book in the world, by believers, non believers and atheists.

[@UrukEngineer]

@@lorenioooooas Indeed. Studying the Bible made me conclude that the Abrahamic God almost certainly does not exist.

[@Morgan_1464]

on that last comment im not trying to say that you didnt check your evidence, because i believe life experience is also an evidence to support your first comment, just didnt want to give the wrong impression.haha

[@TheSmithDorian]

Yes absolutely. Or an alien could have landed and hit the gospel writers with a localized time ray gun. Yes, now that I think of it there are hundreds of reasons why these accounts are actually both correct. But seriously - the calendar that the writers were using has got nothing to do with it. Neither one refers to or cites a date. They refer to a specific event (Passover) and when, in relation to that event, Jesus died. You should be asking why the gospels are different rather than denying it.

[@alex123superface]

No, there were some very subtle yet very important differences. You started off by saying that (and I'm paraphrasing here) that threats aren't always bad because sometimes they're used against bad people. Well that's great. They're still threats. It has negative connotations because it is a negative concept. You then said that there would more than likely have been fewer people then than there are now. So what? Again, genocide is still genocide...

[@alex123superface]

The entire bible is symbolic literature, you could take any meaning from it you watned to if you looked closely enough, but that's beside the point. The book of revelations was actually written about the emperor Nero. The references to an anti-christ and the coming apocalypse were meant to represent his tyrannical reign that was happening at the time it was written. Fun fact.

[@MrMattSax]

“Shrill”: not believing in unprovable, magical ideas. An interesting redefinition.

[@alex123superface]

...And more to the point, what about 'God will provide?' Do you think that if he chose to handicap someone, he would then just let them starve to death? Or is a pre-requisite that you absolutely have to believe in him and praise his name or he won't provide shit to you? Surely that's not the nature of an apparently loving god.

[@Morgan_1464]

You can tell the right way of reading the bible because it will aline with other scriptures, and dont fool yourself in to thinking other wise. and it is not my way, or i would live a full and just life of sin. My God makes it clear to those who truly search for this God, and who desires a relationship with him. You are making me feel like looking up the catholic religion.lol or at least making you tell me what type of church you went to. so i could figure out what you learned, if you did.

[@jeffyoungblood1863]

so she's a nearly there Christian?

[@FlintSparkedStudios]

@perichoresis7 Nice to know there's more sensible folk out there. =D Do you mind if I ask, what kind of views do you have? I hate labeling a person with these titles but I suppose I mean along the lines of creationist, theistic evolutionist, atheist, etc, etc.

[@alex123superface]

So you don't believe that God can change hearts? I thought that was the entire idea behind being 'saved'

[@Morgan_1464]

So far i have disprove 3 of you comments, the first about athiesms definition, by using a dictionary, and the second time i disproved you, was you said that my loving God couldnt be mentioned in scripture and i gave you the most known scripture to all christians. showing in that scripture that my God is loving, to send his own son to die for me and everyone else. the third was you said that muslim and christian beliefs are similar, but they arent, because of the diffence in the God's described.

[@alex123superface]

I agree. You should think this over long and hard, and work out if you think that these actions seem moral to you, whether they come from a god or not. And if you decide they're not, then congrats, you have a better moral code than the people who lived in the bronze age that wrote the bible.

[@learningtofollowhim]

If you want to know Truth then you have to seek it with your whole heart . all who seek it with there whole heart will find it. Truth has a name His name is Jesus He is waiting for you to allow Him to know you. Fall on your face and cry out to Him and tell him you are sorry for who you are and ask Him to forgive you and give you a new life. When anyone can do that and mean it in there heart then He will come. May Jesus meet you where you are :) He is real and He is waiting to meet all of us.

[@Morgan_1464]

i was replying to formmer comments, and im referring to the Bible's truth on almost all of them, maybe that is why it might not make sense, just my guess though. and if you want to stop this conversation, just stoping replying to me, and stop making false accusations about my God.

[@2274brian]

Where does scripture say it makes no sense?

[@Morgan_1464]

sry for not replying but my computer is stupid. ill reply to all those comments that i havent replyed to for such a long time. i at least am glad i am talking to you of all people since you say you understand the bible and have read it 2x's i have read it 3x's all of NIV.lol The bible mention a loving God, and im suprised that you have not read that out of the 2x's you have. ill at least mention 1 scripture that says God is loving."John 3:16-21. this scripture means you lied in that comment.

[@alex123superface]

You do realise that's a rationalisation, right? Whether it was a worldwide flood or a local one, it was still an act of genocide.But like I said, that was only one example And I'm glad that you brought up the problem of free will.You believe that your god is all powerful and all knowing, right?So he created those people, knowing ahead of time that they weren't going to live up to his standards, and then killed them for being the way he supposedly made them.Interested to see your rationalisation

[@DanPrinMan]

Yeah, it would be pretty epic.

[@Morgan_1464]

if you want ways to see of how God has revealed himself just google Christian testimonies, the internet is at your disposal. Use it for yours and others benefit.

[@FlintSparkedStudios]

@perichoresis7 It's funny all the "discussions" that can be found in comment sections and articles that just sling mud at the opposing belief. And I always notice neither side finishes with any progress, but both people are just mad. What has broadened my Christian perspective has always been discussions with level-headed people. Atheists, Christian denominations, and people who are just trying to figure it all out. haha

[@Morgan_1464]

What i said is not my opinion but fact. I have gathered my information from sights and books that have a religious and none religious stance of life. Each of them all agree on one thing. That it is essential not to deprive a child from religion. And if you where to deprive a child from religion, it would be a type of child abuse in that form itself. And also the observation of the children are the experiment. So that is the empirical evidence. Now can you tell me your facts? with non-bias review

[@TrakeM118]

As always, the no true Scotsman defense. Thing is, I don't care if you think that the christinity that is backing the least moral people I've ever seen in my life and trying to make anyone who isn't like them second class citizens is "true christinity". It's the christianity that actually exists and actually has power. It's what christianity is in practice, in reality. I don't care if it's your idea of what christianity should be or your theory of what christianity should be. It's what it is in reality and I care about actual reality.

[@FlintSparkedStudios]

@perichoresis7 Wow, I think we have quite similar beliefs. Reading Genesis, I always felt it was trying to convey something much bigger than man had the capability to understand yet. I mean, how silly is it to assume we know exactly what God means in such a story! I think it's become pretty obvious evolution is a solid thing going on, and I would be shocked if scientists were every proved otherwise. And either way, I've always felt the main message of Jesus Christ was emphasized.