N64 On PS2

Did you know you can (sort of) play N64 games on the PS2? Well you can, but you might not want to when you see what they run like. That is except for the amazing port of Mario 64 which runs great. Also what about other emulators on the PS2? There's many thanks to a recent RetroArch Port, but also some stand alone emulators that do impressive things too. Including a PS1 emulator, which might seem pointless, but does have it's uses.
And yes I am working on a proper "Games That Push The Limits of the PS2" video, that is on it's way!

[@TAGMedia7]

A couple notes on SNESticle: it was developed and compiled using the official Sony SDK and also utilizes hardware acceleration to take the load off of the PS2's CPU. If Retroarch cores were given the same level of attention and care, you'd easily see better emulation and more cores.

[@nightbeast8105]

yeah agree. looking at it, I'd say someone got RetroArch "compiled" for ps2, so we can assume no PS2 specific optimisations. In any case along with the n64 emulation its really interesting to see what could be achieved on these systems. I'd wager someone enthusiastic enough could get these working/fix them up and perhaps inspire others to chip in

[@mathdimadima9167]

also Saddam Hussein hoped create a big military computer using ps2s cpu

[@ninjapants7688]

The PS2 N64 emulator gives you all the same experience you get from Steam Early access if it was launched in 1996

[@markrung8051]

I enjoyed seeing the PS2 do these emulators, very interesting.

[@danmanx2]

Great vid. You really don't see a lot of emulators running on PS2...like ever. Honestly, I would've loved this back in the day....

[@myownfriend23]

The N64 and PS2 have a decent amount of similarities. MIPS 5000 is the successor to the MIPS 4000 that the N64 uses. Both have programmable MIPS vector processors that support fixed point math. The PS2 actually has two and I believe one uses microcode just like the RSP on the N64. Both also have support for the same indexed texture formats and similar GPUs, with a unified memory architecture. They even both use RDRAM In theory, you could make an N64 VM for the N64 that uses dynamic binary translation (slightly different than dynamic binary recompilation) to redirect memory addresses (the memory map is no doubt very different) and account for some of their differences. I'm not saying it's easy obviously but there a whole lot less than the PS2 would need emulate about the N64. The same applies to the PS1 and PS2. In fact, they're more similar. I'm not sure that there's too many places that the built-in PS1 emulator on the PS2 slim could use high-level emulation outside of the BIOs.

[@jsr734]

Yes. I always felt Sony was looking at the N64 while designing the Ps2. So the Ps2 is what an improved N64 would have been.

[@KopperNeoman]

You're talking about DECKARDs, right? Because POPS is a bit crap. There's a work-in-progress reimplemenation of the FPNG and DECKARD PS1 drivers that can actually make use of the advantages DECKARDs have. Still no compatibility patches for problem games, but it does let you play Legend of Dragoon perfectly on all DECKARDs.

[@BeefJerkey]

Worth noting that the old Mega Man collections that were on PS2 and GameCube had PS1 games (Mega Man 8, X3-X6, and "Battle and Chase" which uses 3D polygons). I don't know whether these are source code ports, or emulation, but they look accurate as far as I can tell. As for the SNES games, they seem to be slightly modified source ports.

[@TAGMedia7]

If I'm not mistaken, all of the games in Mega Man X Collection are all source ports.

[@davidoli]

This is awesome! I love to see older consoles running emulators. Please make another video like this but with the PS1! It can emulate NES quite well with an emulator called imbNES

[@JohnnyWednesday]

"I don't think the Dreamcast ever saw an emulator that ran games this well" - then you've forgotten Bleem :)

[@Sharopolis]

Good point, but I was really talking about SNES emulation. That was never that good on the DC.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Both the SNES and the PS2 are insanely complicated, and difficult to develop for. How the hell did anyone...? How did they even get the idea to try? Anyone who doesn't appreciate this miracle, should read the famous article on why BSNES uses over 3ghz to run SNES games accurately.

[@UltimateJennyFan]

You could place the whole of Super Mario 64 onto a disc, add the 'PlayStation 2' part of the startup, format it as a PS2 disc, and then bam! You have your own copy of Super Mario 64 for the PlayStation 2. And if you want a full copy, you can get a blank case, make some art to make it more unique, and then boom. There's possibly the only complete copy of Super Mario 64 for the PlayStation 2, considering that would already be rare without the case!

[@bitwize]

The parts that bsnes needs 3 GHz to emulate well are the parts that use beam-racing techniques -- changing video registers just before the CRT beam traces over the area on the screen to be drawn -- to get a certain visual effect. Most emulators emulate CPU, video, and sound in chunks too large to replicate these effects but with a fast CPU and something like bsnes, you can do fine-grained, precisely timed emulation. Now consider that when programming the Atari 2600, you had to race the beam to get anything meaningful on the screen at all. Next to that, programming an ordinary game like Super Mario World on the SNES is a joy.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

@@bitwize Could be worse. The ZX80 is a treat in terms of how streamlined it is, and how it refuses to let you type bad code. Shame about the everything else. You know a machine is special when the first killer app game boasts that pressing buttons doesn't blank the display.

[@AdrianoSnake]

I emulate N64 games on my Sega Genesis mini quite well. So far i played Mario 64,banjoo kazooie,Duke Nukem and James Bond. I'll try other games

[@jsr734]

I'm still hopeful that emulating the N64 on the PS2 is possible. But it would have to be an emulator built from scratch, specifically for the PS2 hardware.

[@johnbillings5260]

I'm genuinely surprised at how "well" the N64 emulation was. If you remember early N64 emulation on limited PC hardware then you know why.

[@kingj521]

I wanna see a speed runner complete M64 on ps2

[@returnofmerenguespersempre6664]

N64 is notoriously difficult to emulate thanks to obscurely complicated architecture. Well done effort still!

[@Sleepyishere]

N64 and PS2 are both MIPS architecture

[@RicardoRamosRetrocomputacao]

The problem is not that the emulator is too complex for the ps2 cpu. Emulators for Snes started to appear in 1997, and even ran on 486dx2 processors. Emulators for n64 appeared in 1999, and it was possible to run at full speed on a Pentium 2 400mhz. Both on ps2 and og xbox the problem is lack of optimization, due to programmers not having the necessary experience on the platform. The og xbox for example, is at least 3x faster than the minimum requirement for the n64 emulator, and even then it cannot run n64 with 64mb of native ram. The xbox has 64mb free, while pcs with windows have 64mb but a good part is allocated for running the operating system and drivers Creating an emulator requires that the programmer has deep knowledge of both platforms, host and guest. In addition, it is impossible to create an accurate emulator on old platforms, so numerous speed hacks are mandatory, but most of the time they do not harm the emulation.

[@PJE]

Looks like that glitched Ridge Racer is just having the issue of rendering near polygons in wireframe. An interesting way of misbehaving. I wonder how it would look like if a hypothetical setting in the emulator to force filled polygons was enabled.

[@RT55J]

incredible reminds me of the classic video "let's play san fransisco rush" from 2009

[@bpcgos]

What also awesome is PS1 game run on dreamcast with Bleem back in the day... I also once tried Sega Master System emulation on Ps1, the sound is glitchy, but the game plays fine

[@TheStuffMade]

Interest, I guess it's more "let's see if it's possible" than expecting anyone to actually use their old PS2 for emulation.

[@jsr734]

I use my Ps2 for emulating, Sega Genesis, Master System, NES, Game Gear, Gameboy/Color, some GBA games, and for SNES i use SnesStation; it is not perfect but i think it runs some games better than Snesticle does.

[@TheStuffMade]

@@jsr734 That's cool, I did upgrade my PS2 with HDD and McBoot some years ago, but I only really use it for some PSX and PS2 gaming once in a while. But these days I think DuckStation is better than the real hardware for PSX games with it's many upscale and texture correction options.

[@TAGMedia7]

@@jsr734 When I'm traveling for work, I pack my PS2 Slim (the 90001 8c, it has an integrated power supply and the 8c is the last production model to support Free McBoot) along with a USB thumb drive loaded with emulators, ROMs (and even movies) and MX4SIO memory card loaded with PS2 games. It's still my hotel road warrior of choice.

[@mercster]

Thanks Shirly!

[@mercster]

I have no doubt PS2 could emulate SNES, the emulator code just hasn't been optimized enough for the PS2 platform.

[@fattomandeibu]

I know it's probably unobtainium by now, but I use a Gameshark and flip top to play PSX games on PS2. First you boot the Gameshark, swap the game CD in via flip top and you're off.

[@fuzzix]

A Wii is quite useful for emulation if you want "real" 240p@60 output over composite. I presume the PS2 offers a similar advantage.

[@Leeki85]

Wii is probably the best way to emulate old hardware on a real CRT display. Wii has enough power to run all 8-bit and 16-bit home systems and some of the arcade games too, while being also convenient to use with how homebrew works and with USB ports, WIFI and SD card slot. The only real problem is the lack of HDMI port since most modern TVs dropped analog connectors already, making Wii kinda useless as an emulation device in a living room.

[@jsr734]

Ideed, you can use composite, s-video, component and scart rgb and watch a 240p signal with real scanlines on a crt tv.

[@KopperNeoman]

@Leeki85 Having component video over RCA used to be required for HDMI standard compliance - it's not anymore however. Just like how SCART became popular in Europe because EU law required RGB compatibility for consumer TVs. (The only good bloody thing the EU ever did)

[@j3835]

> a recipe that is stripped away of copyrighted properties This is actually incorrect. The decompiled Mario 64 is derived from direct decompilation of the original ROMs and can be compiled into an *exact* copy of the ROMs (provided you have the assets), so it's still very much a derivative work of the original. It is *most likely* illegal, but that'd depend on the courts and how they'd judge whether this would fall under e.g. fair use.

[@StraightOuttaJarhois]

But it's clean-room reverse engineered, which apparently makes all the difference. At least in America, according to people who seem to know what they're talking about.

[@j3835]

@@StraightOuttaJarhois Let me repeat what I said: it compiles to the **exactly the same ROM**. It can't be clean-room reverse engineered. They even say it themselves in the very first line of the README in the repo: "This repo contains a full decompilation of Super Mario 64". A **decompilation**, meaning it was derived from the original ROM. That's not clean-room.

[@KopperNeoman]

@j3835 Then how else would you decompile anything? The goal is to DECOMPILE, not merely recreate. If it can't recompile into the same thing, it failed. Nintendo's famously litigious ninjas think that it's legal.

[@j3835]

@@KopperNeoman Normally if you want to reverse engineer something 100% legally you either do it based on publicly available documentation (not available here) or do what's called "clean room reverse engineering", and there are a lot of projects which do this legally. For example, (I'd put a link here but YT doesn't allow it so you need to Google it) see the WINE project which is an almost ~30 year old project reimplementing various Windows components so that people can run Windows programs on Linux. They have very specific and strict guidelines how to do things legally (see a page called "Clean Room Guidelines" on their wiki). Again, in this case this is very obviously a derivative work of the original ROMs and Nintendo could very easily DMCA it out of existence if they cared. That's how the copyright law works. Feel free to ask an actual lawyer or any software developer which professionally does any reverse engineering and they'll tell you exactly the same thing.

[@hicknopunk]

The ps2 NES emulator might be my favorite NES emulator.

[@the-np4mr]

I suppose that n64 emulator scratches my "circuit bent n64" itch, now all I need is the same glitchy emulator for xbox

[@Metalchip1989]

You could maybe do a ds limit pushing video someday

[@boland1914]

Where can I find this emulator + test ROMs Ty

[@Sharopolis]

www.ps2-home.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8523 That's the N64 Emulator. You'll need some way of running homebrew on your PS2 as well.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

Nice!👍

[@Fuuntag]

Hitman Blood Money for bump mapping and Matrix Path of Neo for software based Normal Mapping & Pixel Shaders.*

[@Sharopolis]

Thanks for the tips!

[@Fuuntag]

@@Sharopolis np additional fun fact, the huge crowds in the New Orleans level in Hitman BM were generated via a particle system (eg spark effects etc) hack.

[@vasileios6301]

Also has a great NeogeoCD emulator

[@RevDrCCoonansr]

Mario 64 playing on the Playstation 2. That is amazing, glitches and all.

[@brian8152]

PS2 and N64 both use a MIPS CPU, right?

[@Cooe.]

Yup. This is also why the guy could just make a quick and dirty port of a PSP N64 emulator as the PSP was also MIPS based.

[@johneygd]

That ps1 emulator for the ps2 reminds me a bit of how nested emulator for the snes because the way how nes games getting emulated on snes is similar,the snes cpu and ppu are mostly compatible with nes games but only the sound among other things needs to be emulated trough software, Same with ps2,cpu is compatible but gpu is different,the sound system is still compatible with ps1 games as well,either way it’s interesting stuff. Now about that N64 emulator for ps2, it’s not worth it,you || just better off porting those n64 games to ps2 instead.

[@RequiemForRavenholm]

What about DOOM64 on the ps2?

[@yoshimansxl]

pc which emulates ps4 which emulates ps2 which emulates n64 which emulates zx spectrum.

[@DaussPlays]

"I don't think the Dreamcast saw emulation this good" Bleem comes to mind, or did you mean SNES in particular?

[@dan_loup]

I think he means snes. and it was fineish at that, not good, fineish.

[@TheBond71]

Mario Kart 64 work on PS2-??? OR PS3???? PLEASE HOW?! I NEED THIS GAME ON PS2- or PS3 ⚡

[@frankowalker4662]

But will it play ZX81 or Spectrum games ? LOL.

[@chris-do]

And C64 (PS2VICE) very well, but the SID Soundchip Emulation is very poor...

[@haroldcampos9661]

I have to disagree about this not being a great way to play retro games, even though I also wouldn't recommend it in most cases. I personally would play a ton of games on this version though. My reasoning is that the ps2 has native outputs for crt tv's without the need of a hdmi converter. I kinda hate crt overlays now, just because they are not the real thing. (I don't do it for a specific game that I want to experience, and spend 30 hours on a ps2 playing a snes game. I do it because I have a huge collection of retro games, and I want a way for them to consistenly look good. Even the low commitment games.) For most systems there's 2 emulator options so you can pick whatever works best, then save it as the default for that core or content directory or whatever. Also saving custom playlists by system keeps it all tidy without a emulation frontend. Then rescan it any time you add a new game. I had no issues with snes but have issues with mega drive. It seems to work for you though, that's interesting. (For snes, it runs great on the emu I use, but each game has to have custom overrides because some need audio filter on, and some need audio filter off. It's just one toggle button, check if it works, and save the custom override. Not too difficult.) I use it for nes, snes, master system, mega drive (I experience glitching and choppiness with sound on), game gear, wonderswan (a bit slow, one emu option only), neogeo pocket color, neo cd (some slowdowns but it runs a chd compressed game fine), MAME, and all the game boy stuff. I quite like it for the most part. I too wish it had turbografx16 as it was called in north america, and turbografxCD. Sorry for disagreeing but it's the easiest way I found to play retro games out of retroarch on a crt. (I am exceptionally happy with it because I finished making a usb stick with all my retro games on it (the ones it can run). My favorite type of games are handheld games, because they look great on the crt. I am in love with this game gear game called Devilish! Such a great game.) I also like the ui since I've gotten used to it, but I switched to the dracula one and it doesn't have the checkerboard overlay option! Bummer. The ps2 retroarch has it's own idiosyncrasies and that's also a part of why I love it. If you know your way around retroarch already and willing to accept that it will behave a little quirkier than usual and sometimes freezing up to think like when scanning a big folder, then I can recommend it. The current version is what I'm using and it's very good! (I also recommend before you start playing the games, to set it up to save your states and savefiles in a seperate folder from your content directory. Otherwise you will have to go back and manually put the saves in the folder, if you create it later. By default I don't think it saves to your content directory, but it does save in one folder without subfolders specifying the system. Those subfolders is what you want it to create by toggling the option on. It should maybe come that way by default but it doesn't for whatever reason.) To think I was once the guy who sold my ps2 as soon as I turned into an adult. My dad paid a scalper $1000 on christmas in 1999 for one. But oh well, look at me now; a ps2 pro! Hahaha

[@dandymusic5049]

19:30 How about people who make breakcore 😁

[@stevethepocket]

I never knew that the PS2 Slim couldn't run some PS2 games. I guess I was really out of the loop at the time, because that seems like it would have caused quite a scandal. Let me guess, it's because those games tried to eke out more processing power by harnessing the PS1 CPU as a coprocessor?

[@jc_dogen]

probably more that they depended on some specific timing detail that the slim's powerpc iop didn't emulate accurately

[@KopperNeoman]

Most Slims are DECKARDs, but not all. 7000x Slims still use the FPGA chipset, and can even accept hard drives if the relevant connections are soldered.

[@shivkokroo6180]

​@@KopperNeomanWhat is a Deckard?

[@extradipboneless]

Beyond Good & Evil has weird audio glitching on PS2 slim models

[@damiank9443]

@@shivkokroo6180 all FATs and first slims used PSX CPU as IOP and bc with PSX games. Starting with 75000 they replaced it with Deckard - PowerPC CPU that replicates PSX. Kinda fitting.

[@delresearch5416]

It just needs gpu work to get n64 emulation running

[@mahbodkaramoozian6409]

a s l i g h t geometery problem

[@81giorikas]

Ν64 pristine hugh? Well at least it tried to. Snesticle lol. Good!

[@johncole4882]

How man my ps vita play more n64 games than a ps2?!

[@LimeAtions]

Daedalus 64 on the 3DS dosent run this well.

[@linkthehero8431]

6:37 RetroArch even has an official Android port, and it's the main app I use for emulation on my phone, although for special Game Boy and Game Boy Color games I use My OldBoy as it allows GBC rumble games to vibrate my phone and also allows the gyro controls Kirby Tilt n Tumble has, and N64 runs a lot faster in the Android app M64 Plus FZ than I could ever get running in RetroArch on my phone.

[@joesaiditstrue]

wow

[@lain328]

Technically there is also PS2PSXe for the PS2 as well, Consider to be obsolete but the interesting thing is that it will play PS1 games at 480. Not sure how good the compatibility is but it seemed to be a good option until the pops came out.

[@CornishCreamtea07]

I don't know much about programming, but I do know that N64 games were made using Assembly Language and PS2 games were made with C#. So I gather taking the source code from one language to another was very impressive.

[@sourdface4709]

Shar...ly

[@k9feces]

This was way worse than I thought 😮

[@linkthehero8431]

4:07 _So long, gay Bowser!_ I'm bisexual and I still have a laugh every time I hear that line 😆 Different times, I know, but it's still a bit funny to me.

[@KopperNeoman]

BETTER times. Before the rainbow flag became what the swastika was last century, supplanting national flags because they're "offensive to the new Germany" or whatever.

[@dollarama8652]

So what?🙄🙄 Let me know when I can play Amico games on an Amico Intellivision... Or play Coleco games on a Coleco Chameleon 🤣🤣

[@stanb1455]

What?