NA DEFEATS EU for the 1st time EVER at Worlds / Favorite teams in the meta - Summoning Insight S5E27

Join MonteCristo and Thorin as they discuss the Worlds 2022 Play-Ins stage, RNG and DRX's current form and potential in groups, the elimination of MAD Lions at the hands of Evil Geniuses, predictions for the Group Stage of the Worlds Main Event, who are the favorites for the title, how DAMWON Kia and T1 may be bolstered by the emerging meta, and more.
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This episode was filmed on October 5th, 2022.
Come join the Insight on Esports Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - NA Copium cold open
0:01:47 - Intro + Worlds format
0:11:10 - Worlds casters
0:30:29 - Gen.G Worlds jersey
0:36:44 - Overwatch 2
0:43:00 - MAD Lions vs Evil Geniuses
0:58:52 - DFM vs RNG
1:03:58 - Fnatic + LOUD
1:09:46 - Group Stage preview
1:29:16 - Dade Award
1:41:57 - Closing thoughts
1:46:29 - GROGcoin questions + Is Odoamne the western GOAT top laner?
1:48:48 - "Flash in the pan" players
1:49:38 - Esports nephews
1:54:25 - Username guidelines
1:57:57 - Edgy jokes
1:59:45 - Monte's smoker
2:01:25 - How to support us
2:03:48 - Will Flakked stay on G2?
2:06:16 - "It was all a dream" trope
2:07:55 - Best place to find out about "scrim bucks"
2:08:52 - DOTA question
2:11:45 - Ranking the LCS teams
2:13:00 - Cooking to impress someone
2:13:24 - How to improve at reading
2:15:15 - Riot mixing casters around
2:21:28 - 2 Play-ins spots for LJL
2:22:12 - Creative cheating in esports
2:24:43 - Comradery and rivalry
2:25:35 - Egregious end-of-season awards
#LEC
#LoLEsports
#LoLPodcast
#ESBIntro

[@LoaThunder]

That copium intro killed me

[@znojnyj]

Ratio

[@Stockbrot_]

They are like 2 years late on the joke though

[@LoaThunder]

@@Stockbrot_ You're telling me NA isn't huffing copium?

[@Zeroyue622]

The intro is so good!

[@AMVsUltimate]

Just want to thank you guys for providing great content for the loongest time.🎉🎉 All the best in the future

[@peefish]

This intro is precisely what I wanted to see😂😂😂

[@BLeyeNDsEYEd]

What an intro!! As always thanks for the content.

[@NAALISTAR]

Finally... The Worlds content I've been waiting for.

[@raymondandsweetheart7150]

Monte had me at doa. I'm looking foward to watching there live viewing.

[@CxerRy96]

have PastryTime as the guest for next week, just put that middle finger to riot

[@runeteardown7261]

I think pastry is going to wr. Maybe next year. The WNS kinda needs some well known caster. Dgon is not in their payroll but he is covering most of riot esports

[@bojnebojnebojne]

That is one of the best intros i have seen on Thoorin's channel soooo good: D

[@suide3275]

Ty for making my day better

[@erica2980]

Isn't the obvious choice for the second award the ghost award? The bad player that managed to hide behind their teammates well enough to not cause problems.

[@Mizzraim]

What a great timeline to live in, listening Monte talk about vibrations in butts.

[@20teverify]

the intro is absolute gold

[@szabel.]

on the LLL point i thought Robo actually played pretty well in almost every game, his laning phase from the eye test looked good

[@nickdaboss03]

I do feel bad for Pastry. Never particularly loved his casting, but I never hated it, and it's really sad to see him potentially forced out like that. Hope he finds his way.

[@husseinpoliphilo]

We are in a global recession and cutbacks will be necessary for a lot of companies, so it only makes sense that they're going to be force fire firing/ retiring people

[@craneteam87]

i feel like pastry got a lot better this year which is why it seems out of left field

[@jonepoint3658]

Exactly what I thought. Some casters are straight bad or so easy to dislike, but will stay forever

[@rowan2828]

wait so they are firing pastry but keeping on Phreak, Azael, Riv and Markz? I guess mark isn't a caster really but still, as much as pastry isn't the best caster (i liked him more when he was casting lpl), they are keeping worse casters or are they also getting fired too?

[@TheSergio1021]

What are you talking about, Pastry is great!

[@TyeRodney]

That intro was a banger and a half

[@m4ng4n]

Intro so damn good man

[@silvafangtv]

Banger intro

[@omfgthisisutube]

HOLY SHIT The intro fucking sent me what a work of art

[@spartanvinc]

RNG has always been a team that struggles with new meta's. Their performance in playins doesnt change my opinion on them being a dark horse at worlds. They can do it if they manage to find picks that will work for them in this meta (mostly for Wei). Even in the game vs DRX they were winning lane phase pretty hard... Xiaohu 1v1 and Breathe + Wei top with botlane going even (on first time Nilah)... they got stunlocked around objectives by the Maokai sapling and didnt know how to deal with it.

[@rendelfrades]

The amount of copium take in this comment KEKW, DRX owns your favorite team FraudRNG.

[@user-nm1jn8hg3d]

i mean they had winning matchups so not that surprising. the fact that youre cherrypicking good things for rng shows your bias.

[@ora9581]

@@rendelfrades what is a drx?

[@spartanvinc]

@@user-nm1jn8hg3d im explaining to you that RNG was shitting on them and that if they banned Maokai right after, in lets say a bo3 or bo5, that they would easely win.

[@team3am149]

@@rendelfrades Cry harder, LCK fanboy 😂 RNG owns your entire region 🤣

[@kaustavbasumatary7022]

this intro is goated

[@Thomas-rc7cm]

Monte, what do you think of Closer's Lee sin compared to some Korean junglers lee?

[@HoodieOfLegends]

YESS INTROOO!!

[@erikklasen6440]

holy damn what a intro :)

[@PabloLopez-tz2zq]

Man the intro is hillarius 😂😂😂

[@simonhylander7489]

are you using ping for watch parties?

[@adriancandelario2902]

The "Fudge Facore online" kills me Lmaoo

[@Akuiko]

Came for the League content, stayed for the Mean Girls reference 🎀✨️💅

[@albertruster7089]

how do g2 never use the samurai? its all over the place

[@dylancarr2472]

The copium guarantee. That intro was fire

[@GSDGamingx]

I think MAD could have used the Copium on Tuesday more than any NA fan Lmfao

[@Cornincarnate]

Eu in general. Eu fans are the most Copium addicted of any fans. They cling to the fact they are better than NA to pretend their region is relevant internationally

[@Ryan_Samuelson]

Can we get just this intro somewhere so I can share it around? I desperately need to send it to the boys

[@FailMachineInc]

best intro

[@TrippleFluffyxD]

So, here are the copium based chances for western teams making it out of groups. Cloud 9 20% - C9 greatest strength is their botlane, but unfortunately for them every other team in their group can match or even outperform them here. The shift in meta doesn't help them either. Also jensen is the worst midlaner in this group. BUT it's C9, they might still do it, somehow... FNATIC 40% - I mean, they stumbled out of the airport and stomped EG. Also engage supports being back in the meta is great for Hyli and Humanoid is finally playing the game! If now Razork manages to play like he did in play-offs we are gucci. Evil Geniuses 10% - They managed to beat EU, mental block is gone. So all that needs to happen now: Impact starts to play like a human again, Kaori positioning improves drasticly, Inspired and Jojo smurf every game and they might have a shot. G2 30% - They beat EG 6 times already so no problem doing it 2 more times. The game being less about bot side and seju being meta is a massive buff for g2. If JDG actually pulls an LDG like some analyst predict G2 might even go first in their group. Rouge 50% - Yeah, I know, the meta shift hurts Rouge. But after years of doubting them they recently made me a Believer with Odo finally winning a title. Also Rouge is the BO1 King, the most consistent team EU has had over the last years. As long as they have a good meta read coming into the tournament they should be fine. 100 Thieves 0% - Not even copium can save this.

[@itzcrossfit]

The CBLOL international rep is almost never the 1 seed. Loud was the 4 seed this year. Brazil is a very spread region as opposed to LJL where it is basically just DFM.

[@NwinDii]

I laughed so god damn hard at the GenG jersey

[@coybackus7665]

thorin the flaw with your logic and it's actually major is that even family doesnt just get a starting spot for being family

[@slimryda866]

Yo i actually think, moving the minor regions into the major regions would actually be super super good for the game, and international tournaments

[@maximus8119]

Copium intro was 10/10 well done.

[@fluid1712]

Best cheat has to be a Super Smash Bros. Melee tournament where a player modded his setup to buff a bottom tier character: Pichu and went on to win the tournament.

[@guybrodsky1708]

In regards to the family statement I think if they help set him up for a different job maybe even a non player one if he is simply unable to compete then I think it's fair. The ability to handle the pressure is a requirement of the job, if they help him get past it and help him move forward be it as a player or not that's good on them.

[@guybrodsky1708]

Further more their other option was playing it like Philly with Ben... make everything public offer therapy on record etc that's not better for deni.

[@changminsong]

Omg the intro. 😂😂😂

[@ziiac]

Amazing intro LMAOOOO

[@dobbyjenkins3903]

For me the highlight of eg mad was Kaori. Dude was in academy a month ago and just threw down with yutapon and unforgiven and won. He wasn't even dead weight for impact and inspired to drag across the finish line. Even if they get obliterated in groups he can be proud of that showing. I don't see eg putting Danny on the main roster. Who would you rather have, someone whose thrown strait into the fire and prospers, or a pro who crumbles from social media pressure

[@broefkip]

Unforgiven is also a rookie though, but yea Kaori seems solid, better than Danny imo

[@berksterb8475]

Peak Danny is worth the weaker lane phase over Kaori. You can feel the missing damage in teamfights. But Kaori definitely exceeded my expectations.

[@Thundawich]

I can watch doa watch worlds? I'm in.

[@dwgreen108]

35:33 1:57:57

[@LiveErrors]

The Casting Talent is one of the main reason i still watch, if enough of them get kicked ill stop watching

[@reysolo3672]

I think GG tried to integrate calligraphy but failed

[@SuperAllelujah]

I have a feeling EG or G2 will get out of groups but only like a 20%

[@bust0ne]

No western team should make it out, but there's always that 1 LPL team that just flames out lol

[@TheFoxStyler]

instand like cause thorin said "the numbers mason" and i just made a joke bout that yesterday + kinda weird title cause it implies that EU won alot of bo5 vs NA at worlds but there was only FNC vs C9 before lel

[@bencurtis777]

I thought playins was a lot of fun to watch.

[@SkyOfCrimsom]

OW2 may be free to play but my fan couldn't even download the game because he has a Cricket number... When my own secondary prepaid phone number worked for him. Think that'll keep the game down.

[@idiosyncraticRyugu]

They did stop prolly by going from his original name :(

[@InstancesKMS]

crown crown is great

[@jugularstab]

Viper as a high probability Dade Award winner? Are you high? Please show me the moments in his career where he was the reason his team lost in a high stakes situation, I'll wait.

[@isakkasson1067]

Someone please save me from the inferno

[@foxfoxes1225]

montes take on the jdg dmw g2 eg group was just straight up weird how does this meta shift not benefit jdg as much if not even more than dwk 369 is prob the best top laner in the world and there was a reason nuguri got swapped even tho the situation was weird at the time kanavi is an absolute monster just because he got gapped by tian doesnt mean canyon can do it right now and wtf nidalee is not a champ rn idk what hes referring to alsoif playins hold any value for the indication of the meta maokai and sejuani were the most played junglers and mao espacially looked straight up broken how is this not a jankos meta?! not sayin dw doesnt make it out of the group but thats some straight up korea cope right there

[@nc_aravindan]

Hope no Korean truck companies have branches in NA :)

[@ChrisPost.]

If Monty is right the best teams in the world coming from the best league in the world are gonna get rolled. LPL stands no chance next to the LCK juggernauts that definitely haven't lost the last 8 of 9 BO5s against the LPL.

[@joel7342]

Feel like Kaori is a lot better at laning meanwhile Danny is a little bit better at teamfighting.

[@rowan2828]

What a fall-off from Mad Lions, they went from winning the split (regular seeding) thus giving them a free berth into worlds without needing to win a single bo5 and then got knocked out of play-ins by EG who also had a similar trajectory after winning the regular season of LCS (although they actually won 2 bo5's to get there). I think it's worth relooking at the format for next year and maybe adding in a gauntlet, because I'm pretty sure that by the end of playoffs both VIT, Misfits and Excel would have beaten MAD in a bo5. The fact that you can place 7th in Spring and then 1st in summer and auto qualify for worlds in spite of an appalling playoffs performance is kind of ridiculous. They didn't deserve this Worlds spot and they wasted EU's fourth seed and lost to a struggling EG that has a last minute sub.

[@cadhla2989]

To be fair, at least MAD was consistent. Lost their only BO5 at worlds too 🤣

[@broefkip]

They didn't win the split, they got second

[@rowan2828]

@@broefkip Okay i mean sure but they were tied for the record and lost on head to head. that makes the format even worse then lol how does a 7th then 2nd place team get a free slot in worlds with 0 wins in playoffs.

[@Xilefx7]

Montecristo can you share your twitch in the description of the video or someone can reply this comment with his twitch channel?

[@Mooshjie]

www.twitch.tv/montecristo

[@suide3275]

www.twitch.tv/montecristo?sr=a

[@coybackus7665]

play ins is worlds because it's the only part that has the truest form of diversity in teams. they could call play ins, worlds. making the main event, Asias.

[@Golikol369258]

Well, for a Bo5 EU vs NA - NA has to make it out of groupös at either MSI or Worlds. That is frankly not so often the case^

[@rowan2828]

yet EU is the only region to even not make it out of play ins, yikes

[@marcosa2000]

@@rowan2828 Fnatic made it out lol, wdym?

[@Skarin1452]

@@marcosa2000 read his sentence again, think about it, and I'm sure you'll understand. Gl!

[@marcosa2000]

@@Skarin1452 What, because 5 teams from major regions couldn't make it out and then MAD didn't make it means EU didn't make it out of play-ins. Fnatic sure as hell did, above EG in their group; 3rd seed for 3rd seed

[@rowan2828]

@@marcosa2000 If this is your first worlds i'll give you a quick history lesson kid, MAD lions and by default EU is the only major region (NA, EU, KR (korea), CH (china)) to fail to make it out of play ins in worlds history. hence the statement EU the only region to not make it out of play ins. It's a simple fact man try to keep up

[@justinbowman3567]

Would rather see LJL (2) than LEC (4)

[@liborsysel2234]

Mad were lucky they got tgat 4th spot... Other teams might have been better

[@slimryda866]

I think danny is gonna be a flash in the pan. I just have a wierd feeling hes gonna go back to school, and stop being a pro.

[@jonathansimple]

The copium skit is amazing lmao

[@SoulLoveBase]

What did Jesus say about premarital sex, Thorin?

[@Max88188]

Why would the two American LCK not go to NA for worlds

[@Cornincarnate]

Why would that have any effect on it? The real question is why would the two most experienced and respected current LCK casters not go to worlds

[@BMania666]

EG beating MAD is enough copium for NA to last til next years worlds. Fuck getting out of groups, this is enough.

[@andyhuynh2625]

Monte's argument for JDG bombing out of Group B is so stupid lmao. He's arguing it's a top lane meta and bot lane is weak side. So Nuguri and BB get a buff. Then Canyon and Jankos can play farming junglers and JDG can get upset. When you're literally trying to argue against 369, who's the best top in the world right now. Kanavi can play both sides, gank heavy or farm heavy.

[@cadhla2989]

Fr though. Wasn't there literally a meme about how kanavi couldn't do anything but farm for a few months? After watching a bunch of their regular season and playoff games, I don't see 369 being less useful than at least BB and impact, while maybe nuguri starts popping off. Kanavi is a monster, and canyon wasn't exactly looking like he was anywhere close to where he was the last 2 years. Yagao may actually have the closest matchups of the group, but even then, he was showing up vs Knight, Rookie, and Xiaohu for all of summer. And I absolutely don't see a world where EG or G2 botlane even touch Missing and Hope after all we'd seen of them this year. Deokdam and Kellim are... maybe they'll do better. Tldr; I think pound for pound, JDG looks imposing in this group, and their team play isn't exactly something to scoff at. I can see either DWK or G2 getting out of the group though

[@George_Milk]

USA USA USA

[@DrManhattanLoL]

Isn't Rift Rivals a riot event Not that I'd exactly count it as a true blue international event but TSM beat UoL in a Bo5 at a riot event no?

[@coybackus7665]

EG likes their brain sloppy

[@Thomas-rc7cm]

Early in the year I was watching the player caster streams but lately i've noticed just how lazy they are about it, like no prep work etc and switched back to watching riots main channel and their casters. Like in one of the EG vs Mad games Doublelift, Sneaky, and Meteos went on a 15 min argument/debate about whos fault someone stealing a kill on Kaori was. In my head i'm like wtf come on guys get back to the fucking game and I switched over.

[@Remixt]

I don’t think it’s just that DL is famous, he’s also a respected pro player so seeing good opinion on games is entertaining

[@feature8]

G2 are not a threat in this group and are in the same spot as EG.

[@spartanvinc]

Lets be honest though, Pastry was not a good caster...

[@thestoebz]

Maybe these fellas will stop blowing Gen G now after they looked awful.

[@thelight3270]

Honestly so weird seeing how much of a hate boner Monte has for DRX especially considering they were the best team in play ins by far. Anyone know why he hates them?

[@Introducez]

fuk him if hes a hater DRX are great

[@noelcabrera9892]

DRX beat LSB and KT who were arguably the better teams based on regular season. So he thinks DRX doesn't deserve their spot.

[@makemhyd]

Watch their game vs MAD when Beryl is on an enchanter and pyosik is in, they gave up soul and baron without a fight. If theyre against a better team, they just fall over and die just like in Summer split.

[@silvafangtv]

Such a Chatting comment

[@GothPaoki]

They have one more win than rng. Calling them by far the best is excessive

[@beatsbydr.draven1932]

Classic Riot being disgusting. As if a mega billion dollar corporation doesn't have the money to keep the casters on. Piss off with that noise, so ridiculous how the talent is still treated this way after all these years and there's been no unionization of any kind

[@craneteam87]

riot casters add so little to the product, that i basically watch on mute. its unfortunate but it seems to solidify their revolving door since it no longer matters who is at the desk. and if you dont want to watch a stream respond to twitch chat, you just have no where else to go. i miss MLG and OGN

[@jeff230394]

ez 1st

[@kurtmcfc1629]

legit who uses Crypto betting lmafo...

[@JesperRoos]

all of mad lions should be fired for disgracing europe like this.

[@coybackus7665]

they just made lore?, idk how to spell her tag, travel and let the americans stay home and will travel around na. mexico doesn't like americans anyways lol

[@SimpleReally]

what a sly, disinformative title

[@PabloLopez-tz2zq]

Here is a little spoiler: EU sucks this year, yeah our beloved LEC just send some of the worst and mediocre teams ever. Fnc is worse, G2 is a downgrade from past years, Rogue is worse and is gonna choke like always do and Sad Lions well they are good at flaming in the chat 😂

[@108noonoo]

Captain Flowers is the worst. So Bias and has annoying way to hyped style all the way throughout the game.

[@nosuitsgiven]

Well no wonder Pastry tried to virtue signal on the backs of aborted babies at MSI. To be fair he is better than every NA caster but Flowers.

[@nosuitsgiven]

You guys are dead wrong about worlds, the casters and RIOT. The LCS is a failed product and yes it’s RIOTs fault. But no one watches the LCS because of the casters, most of the skins sold aren’t because of the players using them, and these teams need to stop scurrying for the crumbs at the bottom and demand the LCS develop a game plan for growth. Let’s be honest 50k people were watching LCS not 300k.

[@Cornincarnate]

Did you even listen? You said they are dead wrong then agreed with them in your points. They literally said the casters don't affect LCS viewership. Other than the skins part, in which case you are absolutely delusional. What league gets consistent 300k viewership outside of China?

[@laisensei6984]

As if improvements of casters will ever get more people to watch a region that never peforms internationally and produce far less exciting matches compared to three other major regions. You want a game plan for growth? How about getting BO3 back? The only times LCS was actually improving their competitiveness was when they played BO3, which helped them to at least get even and sometimes on top of EU during 2016 and 2017 (a much less embarassing spot than they are at now).

[@nosuitsgiven]

@@Cornincarnate They are wrong about expecting RIOT to shell out more money to the casters. They think unionizing is going to make it better for the casters when it won't. I watched DOA and Monte because I wanted to watch them cast Korea. I don't want to watch any of the modern day talent. If the LCS was a successful product and they had stand out talent may be there would be an argument for it. Most of the people that buy skins don't give a shit about LCS. You were really watching which skin JOJO was using in play ins? Get real. Why should they take that money and give it to shithead teams that do nothing to grow their brands?

[@nosuitsgiven]

@@laisensei6984 They need to force these bottom feeder teams to sell and yes bring back best of threes.

[@Cornincarnate]

@@nosuitsgiven Ah yes the classic "I don't do this so nobody does!" argument. Flawless.

[@taylorpeay8991]

Im confused about if i should still watch you guys. Ive been watching this show for damn near if not 10 years. And i loved how you guys always stook to your values. Thats what confuses me about your take on the Andrew Tate Carlos situation. In a free western world it shouldnt have ever even made the news. Yet you guys supported the blowback. Idk i just find it weird that you guys would have this take seeing how you believe in freedom and individuality. You can make any accusation you want about Tate doesnt make it true. That whole sex trafficking thing was worked out by the Romanian authorities. The female that Tate was with lied to her boyfriend because she was cheating on him. This is all on CCTV and the news you can look it up. I dont get why you are so willfully ignorant about someone that might be obnoxious but other than that just a regular dude

[@hewdelfewijfe]

Protip: If you refer to a woman as "the female", you're probably a sexist.

[@taylorpeay8991]

Bro its not a monopoly on casters lmao. Its their game their broadcast their property the fuck? I dont like the CCP as much as the next guy. But that being said. No one is forcing these casters to sign a contract. This type of job is a luxury job. Its crazy how you say riot games loses money from esports yet you still want them to run leagues and not make any budget cuts. Just lose money? I just find it weird how entitled we all are. Its a video game with a definite lifespan. You shouldnt go into that field with permanent work in mind seeing how the sport is a finite thing that will end sooner rather than later

[@allbies]

Riot are really struggling I agree. We should definitely be defending their corporate behaviours and interests vs the talent grinding to make a living.