Nadu, Nadu, Nadu, Nadu, Nadu | MTGGoldfish Podcast

[@TheAverageGuyTAG]

WotC when Oko was printed: "Wait, we can target our opponent's things?" WotC when Nadu was printed: "Wait, we can target our own things?"

[@laytonjr6601]

More like: wait, equipments target?

[@drokhalis3338]

And it ducks draw hate from Bowmasters, Narset, Sheoldred, etc. whoever designed the card should be fired nearly every line of text on the card is worded to break the card as much as it can.

[@XLuxtra]

Wotc when 2028: we havnt made 1UG Card that broke the game for a while have we?

[@drokhalis3338]

@@XLuxtra Edric was the first now he looks oh so innocent compared to Oko or Nadu.

[@Tosia-aisoT]

I like how the thumbnail makes it look like Nadu is replacing crim. Crim has been powercrept out of the mtggoldfish podcast

[@theduckcompany]

Damned if Nadu, damned if Nadon't.

[@TheSpiritombsableye]

Finally someone made this type of joke.

[@christiansmith49]

But do you Nadu the dew?

[@lostalone9320]

Oh well played sir

[@masterthnag105]

Joy

[@commanderpower99]

@@TheSpiritombsableye I think they made it during coverage

[@BS-gk2cb]

“ I understand you can’t probably test the thousands of cards you print each year for every format” What a fantastic argument in favor of product fatigue

[@crisgon9552]

A face value read of Nadu anyone can see it is busted. It's a 3/4 can't bolted.

[@lostalone9320]

As a player I look at Nadu and think "Huh, what about those old cephalid things with 0 cost abilities? Wonder if I can find something like that..."

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

57:05 - Bingo! We've stopped designing cards for paper. They're only designing cards for Arena which is great for Arena but some of these cards seem borderline impossible to track in paper.

[@-homerow-]

Ban Window: Everything is fine 4 days later: Nadu

[@brningpyre]

The ban timing itself is a problem, too. What is the point of a B&R announcement explicitly timed so that you can't ban anything?

[@BloodMoonGo]

Who would have guessed one simic legend would have been a mistake.... oh wait, everyone in the magic community, immediately once the bird was spoiled

[@pablopandolfo8446]

Simic OP or shit. No in-betweens.

[@Shimatzu95]

​@@pablopandolfo8446also almost always just boring value design

[@_Ve_98]

​@@Shimatzu95I think we should just ban them from putting ramp and card draw in simic to force them to do something else. It has stopped being part of the guild's identity and become just a bad crutch.

[@Botanick13]

Tbh If WOTC should ban everything Mtg community thinks is broken during spoiler season we would be still playing with Ironclaw orcs. I think the 1st issue is the testing, both Oko and Nadu was clearly problematic from start and we know for 100% that Wotc did not test those cards in 60 card format at all. Other problem is releasing sets into big tournatments... This was what 2 weeks before PT? Last year we got Wilds of Eldrain 1 week before World? If wotc is lazy to test it themself, they should not release it so close to the big events

[@LedPESRule]

Everyone except Richard, he said it was trash

[@TheChosen0n3356]

1993: Bolt the bird 2024: Ban the bird

[@_Ve_98]

The power creep has gotten so high that removing a creature from the board is not enough, you need to remove it from the format.

[@lexmtaylor]

Can’t Bolt that Bird.

[@Crusina]

Seth correctly guessed most of the top meta cards from MH3 so to keep the karmic balance, his Bloomburrow predictions are probably going to all be Circle of Loyalty level 😂

[@Crusina]

Also why is the wanderer so pretty 😢❤

[@zackestin1368]

when talking about Nadu win rate, remember that the most played deck (in case of nadu, almost 27% between its variants) will have a LOT of mirror matches, and mirror matches will make up a lot of its losses.

[@zackestin1368]

although what is richard smoking with "modern is for cards after they rotate out of standard" which standard cards since like, deaths shadow? has came out as a modern all star post standard rotation? way more often is fatal push is $7 in standard, sheoldred is over 50, teferi is over 50, etc for the multi format staples, and go way down in price post standard rotation, the closest youll get is buying the deck now you think will be the best after Nadu gets weakened/banned, surely. Like they explicitly designed pioneer for that niche instead, only he seems to have the idea that 2015 jund is still supposed to be top tier, insane hes asking for a card to be banned and in the same breath complaining about not being safe investing in decks, people are just trying new decks because theyre new, yawg is still good, living end is even better since nadu will take up so much sideboard slots, even in the time from recording to snapshots theyre completely different.

[@JulioDRai]

@@zackestin1368 He also mentioned that Modern is an entirely new format and pretty much all the decks form pre-MH3 are gone while we are seeing the metagame snapshot on screen of the last month and 5 of the top 8 decks are all pre-MH3 decks (Living End, Rakdos Scam, Amulet Titan, Tron and Yawgmoth) and they will probably go back up after everything settles and Nadu gets the ban hammer, of the new decks (not counting Nadu) the only ones that seem to compete with the pre-MH3 decks are Ruby Storm and Mardu/Boros Energy the rest all seem like a tier bellow for now.

[@jamesesdad]

@@zackestin1368 Richard is so full of shit, its honestly embarrassing how clueless he is considering he owns mtg goldfish. He explicitly states he wants modern to be what pioneer is (a place for rotated standard cards), but then goes off on a tangent about how he refuses to learn or play pioneer (his problem). Furthermore, him constantly lamenting the fact that tarmogoyf is currently unplayable in modern, despite the fact that its been unplayable for the last 4 years, shows how completely out of touch he is.

[@zackestin1368]

@helloyou5549 no, i've listened to every podcast for years, I know exactly what he means, like when he called phlage unplayable trash because its 3 mana and what deck wants it, to calling sheoldred basically an uncommon that will see no play and why is she mythic, to calling the one ring "way too slow and nobody will be casting this and not instantly dying" he just has the worst takes ever when it comes to card analysis, there is nothing else to get. hes the old man yelling at clouds constantly.

[@zackestin1368]

@helloyou5549 when the cards he says is good is stuff like mosswood dreadnight in modern, when he said it would be garbage in standard mind you, its insane to argue anything other than that he exists to be a contrarian. I refuse to believe he'd be doing this for anything but engagement if he wasnt so damn consistent at it. but you said kiddo so clearly you watch more of these episodes and formulated a better opinion than I have, you have such good arguments :(

[@imaginarymatter]

My theory on Nadu is that Nadu was originally supposed to only trigger off of "spells" versus "spells or abilities" like Venerated Rotpriest; Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief; or Zada, Hedron Grinder. I think the last time Wizards printed a card that triggered off of a "spell or ability" you controlled that targeted your own permanents was Cephalid Illusionist. Presumably they haven't printed a card like that until Nadu because they learned that lesson.

[@rodrigo1720]

Haha. The most interessing thing where wizards creates another simic nonsense is "what it was supposed to be before after testing team aproves"?

[@rodrigo1720]

If nadu was a 3/1 and has "draw" on th text, the deck would be ok. Any red/black/ wreen would limit the deck

[@lichdust]

the whole per creature i think was the unintended part. I think they wont ban they will just errata to "only twice across all creatures"

[@lVideoWatcherl]

@@lichdust When have they errata'd a printed card, outside of cards actually just not working as intended rules-wise? This card works, and there is no rules confusion. Have WotC ever errata'd a card ever in such a case? If anything, it will be nerfed in Alchemy, but in paper, the only solution _is_ a ban. You cannot change the printing of rules text on a card willy-nilly.

[@pablopandolfo8446]

Kira, great glass spinner was spells or ability, but it's a protection and opens no way to combos. It was totally intentional, they need to push cards so ppl keep buying pack/cards.

[@bwild40]

Love love love the podcasts!!! I look forward to this and the commander ones each week ❤❤

[@MTGGoldfishPodcast]

Thanks!

[@TheJeffersW]

I hate Modern Horizons becoming Modern, or even Legacy, rotation. You voiced the same concern I have held for years now: buying a $1000 deck that last for years is a very different calculation from buying a deck at that price that will only last a year or two. WotC seem to want the high prices for cards that don't retain their value. It's not sustainable.

[@izaiahsundquist6877]

The first, second, third, fourth, and fifth time I read Nadu, my brain automatically corrected the text to read " *Whenever a creature you control* becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, put it into the battlefield *tapped* . Otherwise put it into your hand. This ability only triggers twice each turn." The card is so broken that it's like an Eldritch horror and my brain would rather perceive it as what it should be than what it actually is.

[@dickkickem4238]

same

[@laytonjr6601]

Even if the lands came into play untapped, a correct twice per turn restriction would be a weird Uro (strong but I don't know if deserving of a ban)

[@martijndenboon9534]

YES RICHARD! THANK YOU! Modern horizons was so problematic for the role modern served as a format. Standard was the format to play when you wanted quick metagame turnover. Modern was the format where you could feel confident spending premium prices on a deck that they will be able to play for a long time. Now modern rotates at the same rate as standard (which isn't really in paper anymore) and you have to spend $1000+ every two years.

[@martijndenboon9534]

I really only play commander now mainly because of this reason when I used to buy 60 card decks for GPs and fun more competitive games

[@bennettpalmer1741]

Foundations being announced right as MH3 hits is incredibly ridiculous timing. "Our non-rotating format has become a psuedo-rotating format due to regular powercreep, and our rotating format is going to become a pseudo nonrotating format due to permanently legal staples."

[@Shimatzu95]

I said it before, standard is now extended(the old format, before modern was a thing). Just change the name already and re-introduce NORMAL standard.

[@ammonaustin9081]

WotC's greed is trying to kill standard, modern, and EDH all at once

[@JonReid01]

​@@Shimatzu95 what would normal standard be in that context? Not trolling just don't know what you mean

[@Shimatzu95]

@@JonReid01 the regular 2 ish years it was before, potentially shorter as we get more sets faster now compared to the early days. Edit: Given that we now have more non standard sets, i think 2 yeats is still fine.

[@cloudyskiesnow]

They're trying to make every format everything to everyone, which will basically ruin everything and make people want to give up on the game.

[@frikifit]

I still watch MTGGoldfish videos, yet I stopped playing Modern and MTG altogether about 5 years ago. That tells you everything you need to know about a game that has become a complete parody of its former self...

[@Leuber]

I have used my old modern cards (you know, the cards that have become unplayable draft chaff nowadays) to make a modern 2018 battlebox. Hollow One, Affinity, Dredge, Lantern, Death’s Shadow, Valakut, EldraTron, etc. I still really like these decks and IMHO that was some of the best modern we ever had.

[@krubbles101]

The last time I remember a deck being this dominant wasn't really that long ago, it was Izzet Epiphany in the Innistrad Championship, which was 40% of the metagame, 6/8 top 8 slots, and a 59% winrate.

[@000Converse000]

It's clearly Shuko that's the overpowered card. I don't know how it was able to slip under the radar for so long!

[@banditkeithkingofduelmonsters]

It's the upstart goblin of mtg.

[@BriceBeNic3]

this has to be an eye roll. even with grieves the bird does stupid stuff.

[@BoltTheEmolga]

@@BriceBeNic3I think they’re more predicting what WotC is going to say in their banlist

[@000Converse000]

@@BoltTheEmolga absolutely. shuko is an equipment that gives +1/0, you basically can't get a weaker equipment than that. In isolation, there is no way a sane person would deem it ban-worthy.

[@RafaelSimonelli]

Richard gave the correct answer about Nadu: it wasn't tested for Modern, only Commander, where it's harder to go infinite with just one shuko in the deck (and even so it's egregious). They don't test for any format whatsoever outside Commander, it's the only thing that matters for R&D.

[@rockandrolljew89]

I'm looking forward to the explanation in the B&R of how this card got printed. someone getting thrown under the bus.

[@xiaohe6407]

They will try to tell you how shouko is a mistake like bridge from below.

[@SurlyDuff814]

"We didn't playtest Nadu because we don't give a crap about non-Commander formats."

[@holstenmason]

@@SurlyDuff814 in fairness it had an even more dominant showing in its first cedh tournament

[@florinalinmarginean1135]

@@SurlyDuff814 They don't give a shit about Commander either: that broken mess of Dockside Extortionist was first printed in a Commander precon. And Nadu is probably even more broken than in Modern, since you get him in your command zone. Hopefully he gets banned there too; I'm tired of people sitting down at a table with an absolute design mistake complaining when I focus them and beat them down

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

11:28 - Thank you for saying this. I was getting tired of being gaslit that this card had an intense playtesting process. It did not.

[@josephwodarczyk977]

That's not what gaslighting is. You weren't there when it went untested, so there's no memory for people to dispute.

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

@@josephwodarczyk977 a very loud portion of the online community continually told us that “it was playtested vigorously” despite the fact that it was clearly not. Sure, that may not be clinically defined gaslighting in terms of an abusive relationship but that sure is a form of it in a smaller scale

[@FightinTheGorlax]

I started building yawg in modern a little over a year ago. It seemed like every time I almost had the deck finished, some new super expensive piece for the deck came out. There was sheoldred, then orcish bow masters, then soul cauldron. Now that I finally got all the pieces like 2 months ago, the entire meta has shifted, most of the cards I've invested in aren't even being used in the deck anymore. I originally thought I was just going to wait for the meta to settle from mh3 and then update the deck, but at this point I'll probably just take it apart and put the cards in random commander decks

[@JulioDRai]

I wouldnt worry too much if I were you, right now Yawg players are trying out all the cards to see if anything is worth adding but so far I havent seen anything that has made the deck that much better so its very likely that once the meta settles Yawg looks almost the exact same as it did pre-MH3, its also smart to wait for the Nadu ban before buying anything for modern.

[@6ixpool520]

@@JulioDRai Yeah, yawg will regain its place as the best creature based combo deck in modern once WOTC finally gets around to banning Nadu

[@Stefanish]

Yeah, you cant buy a deck over time anymore. You have to buy the whole deck while it's hot to ensure at least a few months of play, before it rotates and destroys all the money invested. At 1000$ per deck, I said goodbye to modern long time ago

[@REWASDFGHJ]

54:30 Impending triggers on end step, not upkeep. This knocks a turn off the clock, but it also means that your opponent gets a turn of it being a creature to answer it before it can attack.

[@jeffrhall9219]

If I recall, Wizards straight up said, "We didn't see the Saheeli/Felidar combo." In my opinion, which is purely mine, Wizards doesn't play test. WoTC waits for the community to play test at a Pro Tour and save them the cost of payroll.

[@weeklyweeks7545]

I would never build or buy a modern deck. Honestly, MH3 went from cards I was excited about for my commander decks to the realization that WotC is insistent on soft rotating, apparently every format, at an untenable pace. It’s just making me appreciate what I have and drastically limit my exposure to new cards.

[@roryhatcher1880]

Modern feels like opening a bank account and putting $1,200 in it. Then, when you check your account a week later, there's only $350 in there.

[@MTGGoldfishPodcast]

So it's the "I decided to invest in random shitcoin" format.

[@bonidc6732]

Why you see a game as an investment??

[@brningpyre]

@@bonidc6732 Because cards are expensive. If you wanna just burn money, then go ahead. But for the rest of us, we gotta buy and sell cards as we move between decks and formats.

[@AndrewS-vu4ji]

​@@bonidc6732 It justifies the large purchase. Not a lot of regular people will pay $1000 for a deck of magic cards, so being able to sell it for pretty much the same price takes away the sting of spending that much.

[@Tomovanlaanen]

@@bonidc6732 Nobody here is suggesting it's an investment. We don't want the cards to increase in value - we're just hoping that if we want to sell out, we recoup most of the costs. You know, like Modern used to be.

[@andreasmueller337]

Please found the format "Horizonless Modern" without MHx or universes beyond. The pushed cards that are printed into Standard will make their way into Horizonless Modern

[@Pug8]

Seth Nadu is obnoxious in commander and draft too. People completely change the draft archetype if they get passed Nadu.

[@martijndenboon9534]

This is probably the best takes on how wizards has taken the game I've ever heard. Thank you for highlighting some of these concerns. Great video guys!

[@alwaysplaythegame]

I think its awesome seeing the fastest man in America playing MtG. That's a lot bigger sign of the health of the game than its getting credit for.

[@rodrigodepaula4198]

11:41 Nadu is also miserable in commander.

[@bobbyfortanely]

28:44 Yes, play Pioneer. It’s the power level of early 2010s Modern.

[@verververververver]

Pioneer is stale af right now too.

[@Xoulrath_]

​@@verververververver there's room to build. People just don't. Same as Modern.

[@as95ms98]

​@@ververververververPioneer is fucking awesome right now! Nothing's stopping you from making a brew, and there's a lot of stuff you can do.

[@Leuber]

I am now very hesitant (read: unwilling) to invest in Pioneer for fear of Pioneer Horizons once WotC figures out that they need to ruin that format now.

[@pradion5813]

Overlord of the Hauntwoods giving you a token of something that doesn’t “exist” sounds a lot like the paper version of conjuring cards from mtga.

[@Neeo-u1j]

"What do you play if Nadu isn't banned?" Elden Ring

[@DiogoVKersting]

I used to think Llanowar elves was a busted card, but for the current Bo1 standard, I'm not even sure it would be that good. Green struggles against Red aggro and Boros Convoke because it doesn't have proper removal, and Llanowar Elves is going to randomly get got by Lockdowns and Path of peril. That's not to mention, Depopulate and Sunfall, which is going to get the Elves and whatever they ramped into. Wrath of god is technically an upgrade over Depopulate, but I'm not sure it's better than Sunfall. I'm guessing decks that want wraths will split and play both.

[@MTGGoldfishPodcast]

I actually think that in the current format Llanowar is probably a good addition. Green needs help and it dies to all the powerful, popular cheap removal and Green will still have issues with getting hit by a wrath. Whether it will look that way 5 years from now, who knows?

[@NPelham]

I still can't believe they templated the card as "creatures you control have," instead of "whenever a creature you control." It would still be REALLY good if it could only trigger twice per turn, but it would be more excusably good.

[@bigfhtagn]

That's definitely the most important change they could/should have made but they had so many other chances to hit the breaks. The extra lands could come in tapped, does it need to fly and does it need those stats? The cost could be more color intensive? There's a lot of levers that could have been pulled but, man they really let this go past 11

[@PaulSzkibik]

@@bigfhtagn I feel like the devs just misread the cards and thought "it only triggers twice per turn" and thought "oh, that's cute in edh, where you aphetto alchemist can draw up to 9 cards in a turn cycle but it's fine in modern."

[@_Ve_98]

They probably did it to stop tidebinder from completely disabling it. Still, just use an emblem with that ability that's only active while nadu is in the field

[@pneuma08]

The community creates an eternal format to play their older cards. Wizards prints directly into the format to capitalize on the popularity of the new format. Non-rotating format now is rotating.

[@tael13454]

can say confidently that Wotc printed this card, because "crunch" both not enough time to design these cards with extremely extended list of pros and people who work in magic all ushered to both design and playtest. Even rosewater has admitted on podcasts that sometimes cards have errors because of when they are submitted during the sets design cycle(which can mean set closes tomorrow we need 10 rares, hey guys heres 10 rares on the final day). Wheel was printed in a way that straight up doesnt work as a physical card, and nadu was allowed to release in this state. This is a crunch issue. Nadu wasnt a chase rare and was very quickly brewed at first glance by people on twitter when doomwake previewd it.

[@udostillhavetime]

What i like about mtggoldfish is how critical they are to wotc and dont shy away to tell the how they feel about the game

[@hauntedmoose411]

The One Ring is for Modern what Brainstorm is to Legacy. If it wasn't so expensive, the fact that it's a glue that binds every deck together might be a positive for the format instead of a negative.

[@t.yop9]

Remember when Richard said Nadu decks wouldn't be that good because you'll be playing so many bad cards that can't win you the game. Or that Assassin's Creed will sell well. Richard, tell us which stocks will tank!

[@cutebuttzlolz]

Yeah and him saying you’d have to have two brain cells in this video to see that nadu is broken 😂

[@jamesesdad]

he's completely clueless, and often has terrible takes. Complaining about goyf being unplayable in the format, even though its basically seen no real competitive play in the last 4 years.

[@baconsir1159]

Not to mention his take on Phlage, lol

[@jackcavanagh4041]

Can't wait for the inevitable Rhystic Studies video on Nadu down the line

[@MrHarvP]

I peaced out of Modern with MH1. The writing was on the wall then that Wizards was all in on dollar signs and didn't care about the game at all. It has just accelerated with each MH release.

[@trulydumb506]

Duskmourn’s style is awesome. I’m excited for it

[@zhuraitsuki]

Re: Noah Lyles: For what it's worth, there's also been clips of him also bringing/showing the old school yugioh cards too (e.g. exodia/blue eyes)

[@Charble1]

Regarding Modern, I haven't played it in paper since 2017. The reasoning being mostly because of the issues Richard described; many staples were no longer seeing play, and I bought into Legacy instead. I saw the writing on the wall in the first Modern Horizons set, that the format would simply be too volatile to have any deck remain relevant for a long period of time. Legacy actually has a better shot; the "staples" last longer, and certainly ebb and flow, because the answers are better. Decks are rarely invalidated forever, and receive tools that allow them to update and compete. Your skill matters far more in Legacy, because mistakes generally lose the entire game, so the pace of the game is slower, and the answers are so good it generally devolves quite quickly into "limited style gameplay" as Richard describes. There are exceptions to this, such as cards that are borderline unanswerable in certain shells even with almost all the cards in Magic's history, notably the sequencing of Grief+Reanimate in Daze shells (wait for a ban on this one before investigating). Exceptions aside, there is generally good enough interaction in Legacy to make just about whatever you want playable, even through high power level fluctuations and new inclusions, because of the skill ceiling being astronomically high. It's almost more economically efficient to buy a Reserved List mana base (or proxy it, the community is incredibly proxy friendly) and a few staples and to cycle through a couple Legacy decks with the mana base you have than it is to spend money on a rotating modern format. That's what I did in 2017, and I never, ever looked back. Just don't pick a Lands/Mox Diamond shell unless you are very, very stable financially.

[@ehyoflake8315]

I legitimately think whoever greenlit Nadu assumed the twice per turn limit somehow applied to all of the creatures combined or something. If you understand the rules of the game you can clearly see why this ability is broken, why it is also super hard to understand and why it is so unintuitive.

[@enmanuelrondon9700]

There's no way it was an accident, it's pushed from every single angle you look it it from.

[@PaulSzkibik]

I like cards that make "land tokens" because you don't have to go through your library and shuffle afterwards. Similar to treasures really, but just a different flavor. Obviously, a card could just tap for mana, but if powerful enough, these cards can go into landfall decks and shorten the time to shuffle. Edit: Ah, I paused the video when I wrote this. 10 seconds later they're mentioned the no-shuffling benefit. 😅

[@tonyleone6709]

Been playing annuls as a clean answer for the Ring and other things for months now, been working pretty well for me.

[@BickSnarf]

this might be a controversial opinion but i think wizards knew what they were doing when printing nadu

[@BickSnarf]

I think they did test it and knew it was broken. from a company that has been doing this for essentially my whole life im almost assured they released this card to generate discourse around the game

[@buby167]

My LGS Basicly baned Nadu for Modern.

[@Byteside546]

Our old cards were bought didn't cut it anymore in the arms race so we started just printing our own and house banned the problems

[@TravisOsborn]

Richard, thank you for describing so well the problem with Modern. I have been trying to tell people that since MH1 and I feel like I just get blank stares. Your discussion and stance on it is exactly correct.

[@TJMiton]

It's actually really clear how Nadu happenned imo. - Nadu is given to testers without the twice a turn restriction. - Testers give feedback that it's broken and that you need to limit gate the ability. - Design go 'ok, please retest it with it only triggering twice a turn'. - Testers test it actually triggering twice a turn, give feedback that it's now fine. - Design send it to print, forgetting to change the templating to just be an ability on Nadu, not giving it to every creature. - All formats where nadu is legal are immediately ruined. The reality is that mtg testers dont test with real cards, they test with playtest wordings on playtest cards and this it the unfortunate result. I really don't think this was a 'to sell packs' thing because it would have been a mythic if that was the case.

[@PoYi-fi1zt]

Maybe it was just once per turn and then … the test team say it was too weak… so they print twice a turn😅

[@zztzgza]

The playtest team has old mtg pros on it, they can't really miss this ruling workaround for nadu which is flicker and blink, bant colors, unless they just don't test these cards at all. Whomever designed Nadu is also at fault because their restriction on Nadu's ability is a suggestion and not a hard limit.

[@TJMiton]

@@zztzgza that's exactly the point i was making; they do not test with actual cards. obviously it's a design issue, the card should just have the ability that triggers twice (worded similarly to leovold ect), not give it to every creature.

[@keagancollins3243]

As soon as I read the card my first reaction was “someone misplaced a quotation mark”

[@Bubblenuts13]

As I’ve followed mtg, I consistently feel like Wizard’s methods for handling card design and testing need to be improved upon. It feels like there are very often little mistakes and moments where something is changed at the last minute that only happen because they have too many steps in the process. There really shouldn’t be a possibility for the pros to play with unfinished versions of cards but that’s what happens because of time constraints.

[@JJMadsen-gc3ux]

I don’t think they realized that equipment target

[@reviewchan9806]

Print less, test more, and fire the corporate executives ruining the game

[@timr8159]

Unfortunately, the analysis of the modern "investment problem" is spot on. I bought a bunch of stuff for paper 2 years ago to get back into the tournament scene. Now I don't dare to calculate the current value of my collection due to the huge inflation caused by powercreep and MH-X sets. Probably will focus more an Arena and Timless for the upcoming months as I get to play the new cards but a fraction of the cost.

[@LN_997]

I agree with Richard about the lower power the better, it's the same in racing games too. My favourites are the lower categories where you're racing around in underpowered crapboxes and have to use actual technique when racing as opposed to the higher categories where everyone is just ramming into each other in their 1000 horsepower rocket ships.

[@petesalzl1]

Really good episode. Very insightful.

[@JonReid01]

56:50 Richard not knowing about infinitokens is the wildest of the wild even for him

[@baelsalmongaming]

The funniest thing to me about land tokens is just how much more you could potentially ramp with token doubling effects, I could see a lower powered commander game where a player's token land stack is approaching library size, especially in Selesnya colors. At least populate doesn't make more of them, unless you turn one or more into a creature.

[@cse820]

The problems with Modern Horizons sets as I see it is that with MH2 people complained a lot that there were too many generically powerful cards that could fit a bunch of places, and the format rotated. So now with MH3 they made a lot of narrow powerful cards that all work with each other, and the format rotated. I think the solution should be, no more MH sets. Both approaches failed, and I don’t see a third

[@RayearthIX]

The conversation about rotation now existing in both Modern and Commander was… sad. 😔 it was very accurate, but sad. I have no interest in Duskmourn as a set, but I do have a samurai based EDH deck so another usable samurai in the form of The Wanderer is a card I’ll definitely be interested in.

[@SoDerpy]

its funny richard says limited is the best format rn cause its also getting power crept into unfun territory XD

[@kaceychapman]

Great pod, really enjoyed it

[@taylornewman9561]

Nadu looked insane from the get go, no way they couldn’t have known how good it would be. Please slow the power creep, especially in the most powerful format to begin with.

[@jeddcrilly4024]

I haven't played modern since Tarmogoyf got printed down below $20. The death of eternal formats was obvious as soon as they started printing more non-standard sets. Money, money, money. Hasbro will milk their cash cow until they kill it, and the hedge fund bros won't give a shit while it dies.

[@victorbourguignon6897]

As a commander only player for the past decade, i didnt even have to know the current meta in other formats.Yet, the moment nadus abilities spoiled, my jaw dropped and i knew I'd hear that name in my damn dreams.

[@aidanquinn3312]

The best match to watch at the pro tour was the boros energy mirror. It was the closest to watching a traditional midrange mirror. But with way more efficient cards. And Phlage although it didn’t show up in top 8 looks like it might be oppressive if it takes over.

[@Nic1700]

I dislike how modern is non-rotating by its literal definition, but rotating with how it's supported and competitively played. In retrospect I think they should have changed the definition of Modern to all cards that came through Standard are always Modern legal, and the latest Horizons set is legal until the next one. That way there's only 1 powerful set pushing out old cards rather than an ever increasing number. Unless your deck is a Horizons based combo, it wouldn't functionally rotate. Sometimes you'd get extra toys for a couple years, and sometimes you wouldn't. It would mitigate the need to power creep. We wouldn't have needed Bowmaster for Ragavan, and then make no 1 toughness creatures because of Bowmasters, if Ragavan were just going to rotate after 2 years. If a card is really positive for the format, put it through standard or reprint it in the next Horizons. Plus we wouldn't have some Universes Beyond that are Modern legal and some aren't. A little more stability like old Modern would be nice.

[@Scobedobe]

Richard really know magic, makes excellent points

[@shawnwilliams804]

I don’t think I got to see someone lose to this deck winning all pt. Just watched people go yeah you got it. I scoop

[@IslandLimer]

I do believe this may be planned. Was the set really good if no cards have to get banned? As y'all said the broken card helps push sales too

[@mostlyholy6301]

Printing cards directly into older formats was a mistake. Modern is just a more expensive Standard now.

[@MrDrakDevel]

I'd look forward to a conversation from you guys about doomwakes modern or horizonless modern. Mtg is a board game and we can choose how to use these cards, so why not play traditional modern without horizons

[@samuel5345]

Only way to actually get reliable for fun paper modern is proxy, unless you wanna go full sweat and win a pro tour who wants to drop 1k for a rotating deck

[@vulcanh254]

I didn't even watch the top 8 when I saw 5 Nadu decks made it lol.

[@ebonezra8073]

I see you've been afflicted by Sheogorath! Nadu is the new Wabbajack!

[@XionXLR8]

I used to play modern, pretty much stopped when opal got banned and lurrus was power creeping the format

[@vampirica11]

The solution is simple, bolt the bird! "Improved Lightning Bolt": ------------------------------------------------- Can't be countered and ignores hexproof/shroud If it fizzles, return it to your hand Deal 4 damage to any target

[@sosukelele]

Tbf, Modern only rotates every other year. Standard shuffles along four times a year

[@shoeshinecs]

Great video, Seth. Please make the Gruul Prowess deck before Nadu gets banned! Swiftspear the bird!

[@johnjessop9456]

I would wholeheartedly recommend Pauper. Most decks in the format cost $50 to $100, games are grindy and interactive, and you can use a wide variety of cards from throughout Magic's history. There was just recently a major tournament that had seven different decks in the top eight, and most decks have anywhere from a 4% to 10% metagame share. It's also a format where even jank brews can steal wins against meta decks. Goblins and elves, neither of which are significant metagame players made it to the semi-finals of the card market best pauper deck ever challenge

[@TravisOsborn]

Doesn’t the Horizons sets still come in and shake this format up a ton? I guess it’s not as expensive of a rotation but it’s still kind of a hassle.

[@johnjessop9456]

Horizons sets don't so much rotate pauper as they add new tools to old archetypes. The number of cards that break into pauper in a big way is minimal. Just about the only new archetype that came out of the latest set is sadistic lizard, which is a Creature-Based combo deck that plays very similarly to goblin combo. Just about every other deck just happened to pick up one or two new cards.

[@dogmonolith]

was so excited for the weekend of games but holy moly you're right, nadu bored me to tears

[@anewfuture]

I don't play mtg, though I do know the rules, and even I could have told you that Nadu was too strong for the cost. That is the kind of creature that you need to make a 1/1 or 1/2.

[@jasonkorf7700]

Wotc really should have had the ban announcement today. However, that would have required them to take action on one of their formats, which they seem not too interested in doing.

[@calesaucer6999]

MH3 got me back into Magic after a 10-year hiatus. It’s an amazing limited experience and has tons of incredibly-flavorful cards and call-backs for us older players. That being said, I started buying cards for Boros Energy during release week, got most of the deck, and then just stopped after the Pro Tour. I don’t think I’ll be playing Modern; just Commander and limited.

[@smack80]

Overlord is amazing in any commander enchantress deck. Its an enchantment that ramps and makes a threat.

[@SilverAlex92]

My Nadu theory is that it was a once per turn 3/3 and that intern tested that version and was happy with it. Then an exec came in two days before sending it to print and said "this is only once per turn? so weak! make it at least twice per turn!". "But its once per turn per creature" says the interm, but the exect, not understanding what that means just doubled down "Twice per turn I say, and also make it live bolt for good measure!"

[@maximilianlopez196]

I use modern horizons for EDH and my cube. Modern horizon power creeps old cards out of edh as well.

[@imperialcitizen4811]

Nadu feels like it would appear in a card design textbook, followed by an essay prompt to analyze the card design in 500 words and explain why the design is terrible.

[@laytonjr6601]

At my LGS's discord server, someone asked if they could bring proxies to a modern tournament because of the high prices...

[@Sicktoid]

What was the answer they got? My area used to have modern tournaments that allowed, I think, up to 15 proxies in the deck. And this was ~8 years ago at this point. Getting a deck with Liliana's, Tarmogoyfs, fetches and shocks was expensive even back then. I always thought the proxies were fine.

[@laytonjr6601]

@@Sicktoid They asked 5 hours ago and didn't get an answer yet, I'll keep you informed

[@grizzerotwofour7858]

Cephalid breakfast existed (maybe still exists? I dont play attention to legacy anymore). Idk how they missed nadu when you consider cephalid breakfast functions similarly

[@cpthavoc5571]

Cephalid Breakfast is still around in legacy and several builds of it have added in Nadu to add to the midrange backup of the deck seeing as they already have the combo pieces for it in there with Nomads en Kor and Shuko. The builds that go all in on the main combo don't bother with Nadu though.

[@end-er_1023]

I learned how to play Magic via Modern about 10 years ago. It’s hard to find shops that promote 60 card formats in general. I will always love the format but it is not meant for the average player. I am heavily invested in it and can speak from experience trying to teach it to new players.

[@Hurtishappy]

Since you asked Seth, I proxy modern cards and it’s super fun so I don’t mind the power creep

[@joepiedepoepie1234]

Overlord of the hauntwoods is pretty sweet in the necrobloom or [thalia and the] gitrog monster decks in commander.

[@astrowerm]

oh boy, here we go!

[@anthonycline6558]

Been playing magic for 15 years and now i pretty much strictly play limited. From an economic standpoint i think its actually cheaper over time considering every format is rotational at this point. I just miss limited GPs....

[@Xoulrath_]

Technically, it should be cheaper, IF you're selling the money cards.

[@6ixpool520]

@@Xoulrath_ Or just playing them in your commander decks lol

[@Xoulrath_]

@@6ixpool520 I don't play Commander.

[@zeusjukem9484]

just dont win any RCQs or youll have to buy into modern like me :

[@joshuadoring8050]

Could they ever “restrict” The One Ring?? They’ve never restricted before in modern but this card seems like a good fit for it.