Napoleon's Sex Life Uncovered

[@buds8423]

“…we are so poorly placed to judge these people in the past” Good to remember…

[@CultgentlemanJack]

We are exactly placed to judge Napoleon.. he was a mass murder who Plunged France into war bathing the country in blood and half of Europe. He did nothing to liberate the French people out of poverty. bankrupt the country and completely destroyed the ideals of the French Revolution by crowning himself emperor…when millions die for a egotistical narcissistic dictator the dye has already been cast. Thats what history is for when looking back you are judge on your deeds and actions and not your intentions. Though many historians can agree he had no good intentions for France but only what he intended for himself absolute power.. judge jury executioner I say as for his sex life I couldn’t care less about his dirty laundry it’s just as unforgiving as his legacy.

[@DJL78]

Dr. Kate Lister should have a regular show on the channel. At a minimum her Betwixt the Sheets podcast should be filmed and posted every week. Thanks!

[@Firegen1]

Hear hear! Betwixt the Sheets is my new favourite podcast. She is so much fun

[@K8E666]

Love Dr Kate Lister and and Medieval Historian Eleanor Janega when they’re together ! They’re absolutely brilliant 🤩

[@MsSprinkles1120]

She is great!

[@hollycourtney221]

Love her! Betwixt is my favorite!

[@DJL78]

@@hollycourtney221 It is one of my absolute favorite podcasts. You should also check out ‘After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds, and the Paranormal’ which is also from History Hit. Highly recommend it!

[@blackbeardsdaughter2613]

So glad Dr. Lister thinks Josephine loved Napoleon. I have always thought so but there are other opinions on the matter. Dan Snow was so right in saying we should NOT judge the past by today's norms/standards. 100% agree. Brilliant presentation! Warm wishes from Northern California :)

[@marelicainavokado]

I've read in some biography that he was chasing her until he found out about her affair, then they switched places. She only managed to change his mind about the divorce by using her kids as a weapon. I'm pretty sure she married him for practical reasons ("old" age of 32 with kids), but later grew to appreciate his devotion.

[@blackbeardsdaughter2613]

@@marelicainavokado Loved your comments!!! I am POSITIVE that Josephine later grew to appreciate his devotion. I had a visit at Malmaison some years back and came out of the experience with warms tears. So touching. Yes, Josephine spent money like mad but she had good taste, humor, charisma, etc. and I truly believe she loved both Napoleon as well as her children and roses. People today who say there was no love are crazy in my opinion. Napoleon treated her children with such care which was a rarity at the time. I really believe in time the love became most deeply mutual. This is no Harry/Meghan Markle story. Best wishes to you!!! :) ❤

[@blackcat2628zd]

Napoleon adored her at the beginning, she adored him at the end. Very similar to my relationships:-).

[@beccavry]

"He wouldv'e been a nightmare on WhatsApp..." Laughing so hard I'm crying!!!

[@coolbeansg]

MI DOLCE VIDAAA 😩😩😩😂😂

[@SongOfTheSoul63]

"We are poorly placed to judge [people of that time]". Well said, Dan Snow. Thank you both, for shining a light on the psychological aspects of the circumstances of these peoples lives. We frequently fail to realize the privilege we currently enjoy in the 1st world. We take for granted living in (relative) political stability, public education on myriad subjects, public discourse, a (relatively) free press, public health ... Thanks for viewing these historical figures with a sympathetic eye to the context of their times and their own personal experiences. Excellent discussion!

[@mortalclown3812]

It is also good to read your empathetic comment here on YT, where sofa ninjas and moralistic marauders oft abide. Yet I confess that I judge a lot. For example, I get pissed off at Mary Queen of Scots for myriad behaviors, forgetting that her bizarre childhood held little in the way of Mensch lessons. Here's to perspective. And Lysistrata becoming true.

[@skadiwarrior2053]

Dan Snow is talking rubbish. Of course we can look at people in the past. A good historian does just that. Understand the context, what did people say they were fighting for, did they follow through. Were contemporaries praising or insulting a leader? I would just ask out of curiosity, if one cannot judge people of that time, even from written sources from the time, how on earth can anyone possibly delve into an individuals psychology also from that time? But never mind that, let's forget the turmoil that was the French Revolution and all the wars that followed which, fundamentally changed the politics and societies of Europe and beyond. No, the man's sex life was far more important, ha ha. Perhaps have a listen to contemporary historians and their take on Scott's portrayal of Napoleon. You will find a big thumbs down.

[@rhyswilliams4893]

It's a point I make when people Judge the passed by modern standards. They weren't us and the world was different and although little agree that is an acceptable excuse for some terrible things historical figures did.

[@rhyswilliams4893]

​@@skadiwarrior2053there is a difference between looking closely and judging them against our Modern moral/ethical standards. Because someone 300 years ago did something that's unacceptable today shouldn't make them any less historically significant.

[@rhyswilliams4893]

​@@skadiwarrior2053 the French Revolution and what Napoleon did after was the start of modern Western society as we know it I.m.o. The debt cause by helping the US kick the British out near enough crippled the French state leading to the revolution in the first place. Napoleon restarted the French Slave trade purely for the economics. He created a constitutional monarch and then made himself emperor... All these a thing you can find out about him but I don't judge him outside of the occasional wince while reading about it.

[@megmurray8544]

I would totally buy and read a full-length book on Napoleon and Josephine by Kate. By far she is the most confident, knowledgeable competent, sympathetic, funny, relatable historian to talk about this couple in a way that captures the time period and this relationship. I 110% believe that Napoleon and Josephine loved each other till the end despite all obstacles. ❤ I listened to the full episode on Spotify and was happy to hear Kate’s doubt about Napoleon’s supposed great love for Marie Walewska because I agree. I’m not saying he didn’t like her as a person or thought she was beautiful, but to me the only woman he loved was Josephine. In terms of his love life, she was his one constant and, even though I’m sure he cared about other women, no one could hold a candle to his “sweet and incomparable”. Where Kate seems to have such a non-judge mental approach to his affairs, I’d love more of her analysis on them.

[@rmdewberry2482]

Dr. Kate is my fave! Her and Dan together are tons of fun on this subject. ❤‍🔥

[@nicholaspruitt9032]

…”I now give you a new name.” Also, “coming out of prison, she is alive.” I could listen to these two all day.

[@4Mr.Crowley2]

“Have a go on this you lucky lucky girl”…lmfao…Lister imagining Napoleon’s obnoxious teenage incel preaching to a very patient French courtesan…Lister is so awesome. Her podcast is fantastic - as a medievalist I love listening to historian Eleanor Janega and Dr. Lister on their FANTASTIC podcast…they really need their own show on KZbin…

[@aaronstafford7462]

It’s quite weird that someone found such private letters from two people and decided to make it a public thing. Imagine someone in the future disseminating your raunchy texts messages 😂

[@jackthunderbolt4307]

well i guess that means in the future your as famous as Napoleon

[@TaniDeepavaliNawaz]

People who shape history and disregard the rights of others, and create laws skewed for one gender over the other should have a focus light on their interactions with the gender they skewed laws against 😋

[@vallennes]

I dont find it weird at all. We are curious about peoples private lives (especially historically significant people) and dead people don't care. If anyone wants to go through my shit after im dead have at it.

[@kateblais1772]

I keep thinking about how archeologists will examine the stomach contents of a body to determine what their last meal was. Reading letters doesn’t seem that strange now. 😂

[@1282louise]

Napoleon was ruthless and killed many people. So we dont care lol

[@smoothbeak]

People can say what they want about Napoleon and his love letters, but imagine if the stuff you had written (and probably completely forgot about) was read hundreds of years later, you'd sound crazy or whatever word as well

[@linchen008]

Absolutely!

[@chloehunter3428]

Kempen (which is close to "kepen") is a dutch/Belgian word which means "to go to war, to enter into conflict", and kepen in itself seems to etymologically come from the Middle English meaning to observe, heed, seek, seize, and/or keep. Either way, Baron de Kepen might symbolise a place of hot and heavy battle, or perhaps the one place Napoleon truly felt seized or kept. ;)

[@4Mr.Crowley2]

I’m a medievalist (English middle ages) so I’m all for a possible Middle English word (“kepen” but why the Middle English word would be relevant here I don’t know…is it Anglo-Saxon or Latinate, in which case the tie to French tie might be more significant?). I think your suggestion of the idea of a sort of cute military name - for N’s fave area of Empress Josephine’s body -possibly with the idea of a medieval “keep” and siege tactics as well - that seems very likely to me!

[@frenchartantiquesparis424]

But why Baron, the masculine, for vagina which is feminine... shouldnt it be Baroness?

[@xenoyemanja8969]

​@@frenchartantiquesparis424 barone is baroness in French

[@alex2765]

I don't know if it's relevant but there was an Austrian General called Baron (Freiherr) Wilhelm Von Kerpen who was serving in Italy at the time.

[@MixerRenegade95]

to Keep is Old English, ''cypan'' (Anglian: hard c/kaepan) branched from 'ceapan'' to trade/buy/possess, Kempen is related to OE: Cempa (Warrior/champion) and that ultimately derives from Latin: Campus (Field).@@4Mr.Crowley2

[@A861967]

The most disappointing part in history is that we try to explain and understand emotions hundreds of years old, yet we don’t understand the times or the challenges of the times❤

[@dasmysteryman12]

History and psychology are two different disciplines. So are current affairs.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Sure we understand the times, or at least those of us who’ve had the patience to read the original materials do. Sadly that’s not many people when you add it up.

[@jillwanlin9558]

That was a good bit of fun. An intimate romp around the bedroom with Napoleon and Josephine. It really is wonderful to have these private letters that provide us with a glimpse into their love, lives and human side of their relationship. Great conversation Dan and Dr. Kate. 🇨🇦🇬🇧-❤️HH

[@user-sg4ov7ng4h]

Didnt they cheat on eachotherd

[@apcolleen]

​@@user-sg4ov7ng4hthat was indeed covered in this video.

[@jillwanlin9558]

@@user-sg4ov7ng4h yes they did. They stated it wasn’t uncommon for that time.

[@stefthorman8548]

​@@user-sg4ov7ng4hafter napoleon got really powerful, she cleaned up, and stopped seeing other men

[@nilo70]

Lister is a Treasure and should have her own show. I loved this episode please mak more Cheers From California 😊

[@incensejunkie7516]

Her fabulous podcast is Betwixt the Sheets

[@laikanbarth]

Finally a movie that I want to actually watch!! I’m watching this interview and then watching the movie. Thank you.

[@martinconnors5195]

Ironically, Napoleon was above average height. Yet people made him small, when actually he was 5'7" the average man's height then was 5'5"-5'6"

[@andrasszabo1570]

I assume you know, but that was British propaganda to belittle him. France also used inches and feet to measure height, but different ones. He measured 5'2 in French measurements, which was 5'7 in English. But of course as his enemy, the English were happy to not "translate" it to their measurements, but act like he was just a little man. His bodyguards, the Grenadiers-à-Cheval also had the average height of 175 cm, about 6-7 cm taller than Napoleon. So he also usually seemed small compared to them, even if he wasn't compared to the population at the time.

[@EricTD1995]

He was average height for the time.

[@marelicainavokado]

He was short for an aristocrat, that was all.

[@stefthorman8548]

​@@marelicainavokadonot really, one of the generals that defeated him was 5'4

[@suzannestanley]

I picture him like my ex- Italian husband. Shorter but buffed with a larger appearance.

[@EmmaElizabethX]

There is something so refreshing about a coed discussion between historians/experts who are just fascinated with the facts - would love more of these types of discussions!!

[@Yoliplanting]

Endlessly misunderstood and vilified, but eternally fascinating Napoleon🖤🌸

[@ild74]

Josephine was born in the Caribbean (St. Lucia or Martinique , it's disputed. But she grew up in Martinique). In one of the French colonized islands, she moves to France because of her marriage (arranged by a paternal aunt) to an aristocrat. The first husband was a revolution sympathizer at first, though he was still guillotined. After surviving the Revolution, she probably doesn't have family support in France, besides the in laws, who if they survived probably weren't in a position to help much.

[@ellenlebow2724]

My parents wrote almost every day to each other during ww2. I have them all. My father not only was very sensitive about days when there were no letters but he said all of the troops morale and psychological strength depended on getting letters from home regularly . He described one friend’s suicide after receiving a dear John letter. Havent seen the movie yet but does it even mention Haiti and the toll its revolution took ( was designed to take) on his financial and political powers? He built a palace there for Josephine but the cement blocks were mixed with seawater and crumbled very quickly. Ruins are still there.

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

I had no idea letters from wives were so important. It makes sense though

[@adrianjohnson7920]

@@Black_pearl_adrift I have all the letters 1942-1945 my father sent my mother from the Pacific front during WW II before they got married. They had met on one day's leave he had in Houston, Texas, and the letters were the way they got to know each other. They married in 1946. I was born 1948; He was called up from the Reserves for the Korean War August 1950. He wrote her every day; she received his last letters after the War Department notified her he had gone down with his ship, the minesweeper USS Pirate. He was KIA October 1950.

[@Cantetinza17]

I was in 9-11 and I loved getting care packages because you start to wonder if people care about you? Here you are in war and not one letter with encouragement or something funny to break the psychological tension. You never really realize how important communication is during a time like that.

[@cathryncampbell8555]

Thank you for a fascinating video. I have often wondered if Napoleon may have been on the Autism Spectrum. His extreme social awkwardness coupled with a genius for (compartmentalized) data suggests that he may have had elements of Asperger's' syndrome. As for Josephine's barrenness -- many women who underwent the extreme, continued stress off the French Terror were later incapable of bearing children. Marie Antoinette's daughter, Marie Therese, was another survivor of the Terror who was infertile.

[@frontenac5083]

The "Autism spectrum" is modern nonsense. It's not a thing.

[@apcolleen]

I thought the same thing when I watched tasting history with Max Miller's episode about Napoleon tonight. He had odd fastidious food habits as well. And I got the general sense from that video also that he was awkward as a person. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWLJnZmiqJmBbZosi=y_78OMe1fBSCvM8a

[@apcolleen]

Also the term Asperger's is outdated because Dr asperger aided the Nazis

[@Kairi98503]

Yes! As someone diagnosed with ASD and ADHD, I would not be surprised if he had one or both. As in first hand accounts of him and through his letters, he comes off as very neurodivergent even in the context of the era. What got me was the fact that he would eat quickly and just leave an important banquet despite a very important conversation needing to be had with one of the guests. That to me screamed ADHD behavior, though his tendency to favor simple foods like chicken and his obsessive writing to his wife, then not understanding or ignoring social ques like going to show his ex-wife the baby he divorced her to get, leans more ASD as well. We will never know but it is interesting to think about.

[@glynndonahue1159]

Sexual promisicuity, Chlamydia & Gonnorhea have more to do with female infertility than stress & malnutrition.

[@Sunluvr1]

I loved her “ last chopper out of Saigon “ analogy . Such an educated , articulate , intelligent woman . A pleasure to listen to .

[@WillaOakes22]

loved this! more of Dr. Kate Lister please!

[@Se7nom]

I think insecurity isn't always a bad thing. Insecurity allows a person to think further, and by thinking more about a topic, one can come up with a better solution or decision.

[@apcolleen]

Unfortunately not everybody has the capacity to do the mental work it needs to get over.

[@dolinaj1]

Maybe.

[@kariannecrysler640]

Absolutely loved this 🥰

[@Ridcully9]

This is fascinating. I am not sure I can sit through the film but it's great to learn about it. I was amazed to see the huge painting of their court at Versailles

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

It’s apparently a terribly disjointed film. They spent a lot of time getting the ‘look’ correct but forgot about creating an interesting story.

[@katierasburn9571]

@@sirrathersplendid4825yeah i watched it and didnt enjoy it

[@mariangrimsdell1112]

She resourced gun powder for Napoleon armies , as well as managing his grand houses and estates, she ran all the fabric for uniforms for his militia, she personally made his great grey coat with the silver ❤ buttons that he rode his favourite horse in Battle for three days and nights , she choose all the fabrics for his many apartments in Venice and Paris and Fountain Bleu .

[@CultgentlemanJack]

Wow so hypocritical and Marie Antoinette was cursed buy the French people for saying let them eat cake.. which she never said imagine what they would think about Josephine. Let them wear silk

[@pentegarn1]

I like historians like this that make history fun.

[@resh..]

11:24 " He would have been a nightmare on whatsapp " 😅

[@kimturner2105]

In those days women were not able to have any voice or standing in this world. She needed to survive and protect her children and security. Geez! Women were at the mercy of men. She was shrewd and she needed to be.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

That’s garbage. Women were not much worse off than today. Sure most of them didn’t get to do much in public life, but that’s because they often had seven kids and a house to look after. Rich women who could afford servants had plenty to say and played a very large influence on society.

[@nooneeey]

@@sirrathersplendid4825Amost never in history did it occur that there was a woman in charge. And if it was, people would try their best to change that all the time. I guess you are a man who can’t even imagine to have non elf the damn privileges you got right now, but women were worth nothing in most of history and that can’t be denied!

[@dolinaj1]

@@sirrathersplendid4825 Sir Rather S____, non?

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@dolinaj1 - Que?

[@theoneandonly1158]

That's a lie. Women had opportunities.

[@colleenwhalen6981]

Fascinating video - I never wanted it to end! Josephine was the original "It Girl" I greatly enjoyed learning so much about her.

[@dolinaj1]

Check out the French drama series Napoleon, made in 2000, if you want a captivating, historically sound, and brilliantly written, acted, directed, and produced take on Napoleon and his era. The cast is headed by Christian Clavier, Isabella Rossellini, Depardieu père et fils. After the horrors of the Revolution and Robespierre, sex, food and drink, and frivolity were necessary tonics for aristocrats who escaped the guillotine. Napoleon and Josephine are historical one-offs. (Josephine’s dentures were made of wood.)

[@carolferguson]

So were George Washington’s. Must have been how they did it at that time period

[@amandalett6246]

I'm always so stoked to hear Kate Lister!

[@virtuallyerin]

Been a Napoleonic history fan since a teen. No real new info. here but enjoyed this. Recommend the book "Napoleon and Josephine; The Biography of a Marraige" as the finest chronicle of the two.

[@annettesonjajesse9733]

A very interesting talk about Napoleon and his love Josephine. Thank you for posting.

[@benburkin7942]

Dr Lister is great ... also "Napoleon, lucky duck!" 😂

[@marieclaudebedard6728]

Only me got hot under the collar when Dan read that second love letter? Humm? I think he rushed trough because even he found it... stimulating!😊

[@martinconnors5195]

No, I got hot under the collar too. When he mentioned her forest, I got so feverish and so excited

[@jeanbartrum2773]

I think he rushed because he felt awkward

[@arxsyn]

I didn't get hot under the collar. I found the sentiment sweet and endearing. It made me remember what one of my lovers had said to me: "my sheets smell like you, l like that" and that did mean something to me.

[@charlesflint9048]

I always remember my history teachers in the late ‘60s telling us of Napoleon writing to Josephine telling her not to wash.

[@carolferguson]

Me too. In the 80’s

[@Chipoo88]

Brilliant stuff! Love these two

[@Brandnewshoes]

Dr Lister is ace, bring her back on again!

[@katfromthekong414]

"I'm not saying that's why he lost the battle of Waterloo" 😂

[@adrianavictoria1]

Kate Lister, YOUR NECKLACE IS EVERYTHING XD

[@claudiaweidman1004]

Great video, so interesting 😊

[@lizzies4964]

This is a great conversation! As far as the movie's depiction of Napoleon as a lover, of course that's something we can never truly know so anyone's take is valid. His letters do imply to me that he was a more generous lover than the movie may depict him to be. But I think what Kate said is true that many men may hype up their own sexual prowess only to be incredibly underwhelming. Napoleon was also quoted years into his marriage saying something along the lines of "the whole act of sex is done within a minute" which of course indicates that he was not a generous lover at all. Josephine we may also presume had some higher standards in the bedroom given her vast sexual experience. Even if Napoleon was giving it his best shot, that may not have been much for her. By the time they were married, I believe he had only had sex with one other woman, so not the most experienced. The fact that she had an affair so quickly after their marriage also indicates he may have been a bedroom disappointment. Anyway, of course we can only speculate. I'd say there's evidence for both sides here, and I understand why the movie might be taking the side that he was a poor lover.

[@dolinaj1]

Josephine did not have vast sexual experience. Early in her relationship with Napoleon, J was comparatively more experienced sexually than he.

[@jr4bz]

This video is way more informative, interesting, and worth my time than the movie was.

[@carolferguson]

Wow

[@soulonice206]

Damn Napoleon moving like Drizzy in these streets all in his feels

[@lauraarcher1730]

Huh?

[@danthefan28]

3:19 For a second I thought Lister was going to say "You are a sad, strange little man, Napoleon", just paraphrasing Buzz Lightyear.

[@noregrets7469]

Loved this video. It explain a lot and gave me more insight into this Romeo and Juliet love affair. I saw the current Napoleon movie with J. Phoenix and your discussion filled in some questions I had that left me wondering about it. Thank you for filling in those gaps🌹

[@dolinaj1]

Hardly a Romeo and Juliet affair. Why do you characterize N’s and J’s relationship as an adolescent one? Genuinely curious.

[@dawni5365]

This was an AWESOME EPISODE

[@jonrivers7779]

"she had a tough revolution" ....I dont know. I think others had it tougher!

[@hazbutler]

Not everyday you hear Dan Snow talking about cunnilingus

[@lyonhartone4407]

Director: Why is Dr. Lister hidden behind stacks of books? Odd thing to notice, I know. Odd.

[@mariagordanier3404]

Yeh, I noticed that too. Very distracting.

[@dolinaj1]

Has she gotten fat? Might she be pregnant? Why does it matter? It is her wit, expertise, knowledge for which we tune in - non?

[@dolinaj1]

@@mariagordanier3404 Really?

[@joshuaDstarks]

Wait until she hears James Joyce’s letters 😂😂😂

[@oliverboisen7475]

Or Warren G. Harding's 😂😂

[@Zerrum]

She wrote about Joyce's letters in her book

[@user-sg4ov7ng4h]

Omg i just read them

[@ladylaura8038]

This was extremely informative and in such a entertaining lesson 🎉 the more you know ❤❤

[@CactusJack60]

I have so much more respect for Napoleon after listening to this, I can feel like I can relate to a lot of what he says when it comes to his sex life, except for the part where he's a super famous historical figure. 😅

[@michellemuro5490]

I absolutely enjoy listening to Dr. Lister's podcast and her impressive expertise.

[@DianeEmeraldBard]

I did a report on Napoleon's love life in the tenth grade. It was well-researched, but my teacher saw it as frivolous. I feel vindicated after watching this. :)

[@pamelabonaparte9383]

Fantastic. Thank you! 👏🏻

[@gullsrus]

Very enjoyable, a really good and insightful podcast.

[@rodeastell3615]

Great video ... thanks for posting.

[@Techgnome21]

This video reinforces my belief that this movie is severely underrated and gets a lot of undeserved hate. A lot of people miss the point of the film. They unfairly compare it to other movies and wanted it to be something it was never intended to be. Seeing this side of Napoleon makes him that much more interesting.

[@ZealouswolfNZ]

The plant made me think Dan was Sideshow Bob for a moment 🤣🤣

[@apcolleen]

Same lol

[@rebeccaperez3264]

They’re the exact depiction of a toxic relationship

[@AnneBeamish]

Napoleon's letters are beautiful and so French. I agree he seems to be a generous lover. One question, do we have Josephine's letters anywhere? I would love to read them.

[@irenehartlmayr8369]

Unfortunately,they have been lost for some reason.Only a few are still known.You may read about that in a famous book of the nineteen-sixties,by Frances MOSSIKER : Napoleon and Josephine. You could probably find it in a library or on the Internet.

[@Armpittt]

Awww man! You 2 have already seen the movie?! So jealous. It doesn't hit cinemas here for another 2 days. Loved the video, it's interesting to hear how historical figures used to live outside of the stories most of us have heard

[@sarahleach9997]

Great movies

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

You haven’t missed much. It’s pretty but that’s about the only good thing you can say about it. 😊

[@mikebarrow157]

Brill insight! Thank you.

[@stephiechefy]

In a not too distant future, a historian might read your sexts to the masses as well!

[@MSS-g7f]

I don't know.. I think it'd be worse if they read my poetry.

[@andrasszabo1570]

After I'm dead, I don't think I'll care!

[@fotograf736]

This would only mean I would have changed history.

[@oberstul1941]

Excellent episode - cheers!

[@mattreagle8650]

a "capon" is a castrated rooster, so perhaps "Baron de Capon" is some related play on words, like "Baron of Cock", or something.

[@msfsaint]

Napoleon was a Catholic boy at heart, but a 40 year old woman in the 1800s wasn't a springboard for a dynasty. Too bad his other wife didn't warm him up to Austria enough to destroy that country's birth rate too, thus preventing WW1

[@samweljondiko3883]

Napoleon conquered Europe and Josephine conquered Napoleon 😂😂😂 quite funny

[@apcolleen]

When I watched Max Miller's Napoleon episode tonight he mentioned some of his more fastidious behaviors involving food...and now some of his love life and insecurities and habits sexual and otherwise, and his overall awkwardness relayed here... I feel like he was on the spectrum. And I googled it and I am not alone in that thought. We can't retroactively diagnose someone but I recognize my people when I see them.

[@frontenac5083]

LOL!

[@sarahleach9997]

Yes I am afraid so

[@somerandomguy2073]

Absolutely agree. He's basically textbook.

[@mikebarrow157]

I reckon Dr Lister is a rather specific but more relevant social Historian than "sex historian" does her justice.

[@Classdefined]

Loved this

[@pedenmk]

Kissing her little black Forrest? Lol it sounds like the little Frenchman enjoyed making his woman happy. Little black Forrest lol. Thanks for sharing.

[@ndwilcock6575]

Dr. Kate Lister is absolutely shameless. What a terrible gossip she must be. I could listen to her all day! Wish there were more like her. Such honesty and straightforwardness is so refreshing.

[@patricialynn1803]

Wonder why such an aged actor was cast to play Napoleon but Josephine was played by such a young woman 😮😮

[@Kenzalina_]

Yes! I find the casting very odd as well. It is very off putting. Glad to know I’m not the only one.

[@tancreddehauteville764]

Phoenix in not 'aged', he is 48. Napoleon is very unusual in having finished his illustrious career at the age of 45 - only Alexander the Great achieved as much at a young age.

[@Kenzalina_]

@@tancreddehauteville764 Napoleon was only 24 when he became a general. He was 26 when he met and married, a 32 years old Josephine. He was 29 when he invaded Egypt and 35 when he became Emperor. He was 45 years old at the time of Waterloo and was dead by 51. Unless the film is about his last few years of life he is way too old to play Napoleon. Vanessa Kirby is 35 which is in the right age group for Josephine at least in the early years of their relationship.

[@Kannot2023]

They could put Thimothee Chalamait to play Napoleon, he is younger and speaks french

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@Kannot2023- Certainly would’ve been a better choice for the early years, but TC lacks gravitas for post-1804.

[@originalsainthood]

LOL!! hearing dan snow read the words about wanting to kiss the woman in her black forrest is hilarious.

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

I cannot belive I haven’t found this before!!! What an interesting thing to explore

[@Chardonbois]

Brilliant listening to the chat between these two great historians.

[@donsarde]

What film is this ?

[@user-sg4ov7ng4h]

Yep seeing the circumstances i don't really "dispise" the cheating, it happend a lot

[@joseguilhermesoares543]

The movie seems to have gotten Napoleon wrong in just about every aspect. Charisma, military genius and as a lover... quite sad...

[@brannonmcclure6970]

Yes! Thanks for bringing information; from, not just the political halls and battlegrounds but from his intimate biographies.🧑‍🎨👨‍🎓♾️🗝️❤️⭐️

[@NatalieZii]

I had absolutely no interest in this subject and you got me to watch 30min with how well you discussed it. I never imagined I would feel sad for Napoleon but here we are 😂.

[@teresakaidy8919]

I want that book of their love letters from which you read. What is the title?

[@fluffy738]

Love Kate Lister! ♥

[@TheHellnfire]

NEED MORE OF YOU BOTH 🙏

[@galerad7254]

So few men named Napoleon, so many, many, many women named Josephine in the wake of that couple.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Nothing to do with the couple. Napoleon was widely regarded outside France as a monster. I have a great-grandfather called Adolf - not an unusual name at the time, even outside Germany.

[@hellemarc4767]

The "don't wash" letter isn't by Napoléon, but by French king Henri IV to his lover Gabrielle d'Estrées.

[@Lizzi1700misguide]

I just squealed so loud at work 😂

[@themightyspoon9641]

Such a funny conversation Dan is a legend, cracks me up when he keeps calling here the expert 😂

[@anakreyszig303]

I think they loved one another, but there was more to it than that. Josephine was from Martinique. Napoleon was from Corsica. I think these two outsiders must have felt like they had something in common from the start.

[@dolinaj1]

Well observed.

[@yolandacroes5491]

The fact that the movie cast an actor 14 years younger than Joaquin while Josephine was actually six older is such a huge disappointment to me. I might not watch it for that reason alone.

[@pheart2381]

I agree,that would give the film a completely different dynamic.

[@frontenac5083]

Yes, Hollywood (is this a Hollywood film?) is very "woke" (meaning idiotic) about "minorities" in their movies, for instance, while completely not giving a flying monkey about real issues which have always plagued the industry such as blatant and ordinary ageism against actresses.

[@yolandacroes5491]

@@frontenac5083 I have no freaking idea what being woke or minorities have to do with casting a Josephine that is way too young. It seems to me that it’s more related to old fashioned sexism, like old men can’t imagine a younger man passionately in love with an older woman.

[@clwright80]

I was hoping they might make the bold move of showing Josephine without teeth, as she had lost hers during her youth in Martinique.

[@OpalLeigh]

Definitely sexism and age-ism 😔 I’m sure we can all imagine some examples of actresses that are “older”, but still absolutely gorgeous. Charm is part of it too 😉 as it was with the real Josephine! They really could have done it if they wanted to 🙄

[@NapoleonCalland]

The line about going back to his place was hers ... The poor girl had a living to make after all

[@thedudefromrobloxx]

13:07 The declaration/realization of "he wants to give her head!" responded to by serious "mm" and a nod is hilarious

[@MajorDenisBloodnok]

Don't believe all the things told in Ridley Scott's movie. For example, it is not Napoléon who showed his son, the king of Rome, to Joséphine, it is actually her who asked him the permission to see the baby. A secret meeting was organized, secret because Marie-Louise was extremely jealous of Joséphine. After their divorce, they continued to meet and to write to each other but always secretly because of Marie-Louise. As for Marie-Louise, Napoléon always treated her with respect (her own words). She was raised to hate this man but a few days after their first meeting, she wrote to her father, the emperor Francis, that Napoléon was a very fascinating man and that he deserved to be known from a very close point. Well, in fact, few hours after their first meeting, Napoléon slept with her (they were married by proxy)! Later, he told she laughed all the night and asked him to "do it" again! As for the "don't wash", I believe it is an invention of the Anglo-Saxon world. Never heard this story in France. I read all the Napoléon's letters to Joséphine published to this day, no "don't wash" in them. Plus, Napoléon was very cautious with his body hygiene. He took a bath every day, liked to be frictioned with litters of Cologne, brushed his teeth (he had very good teeth unlike Joséphine). And, he hated strong smells... I believe that he preferred to visit a clean little black forest... 😉

[@Rositasparks]

I discovered a new found adoration for Napoleon and Josephine . Those two are definitely some of my favorite historical figures. Thank you for this fabulous historical chat! ❤

[@moonfire41]

Napoleon had game. The real Napoleon Dynamite.

[@LittleOneSlaysThem]

Frfr

[@adtonsi236]

Loved the discussion! But I need to know about the shirt Dan is wearing!