Narcissism: Always a Narcissist or is it the Dementia?

Narcissism: Always a Narcissist or is it the Dementia? ABCs of Dementia FAQs: N
~About the Book~
“Dementia with Grace: A New, Positive Way of Dealing with Behaviors in People with Dementia” addresses behaviors whether caused by Alzheimer's Disease, Lewy-Body dementia, vascular dementia, frontal-temporal dementia or any other type.
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~About Me~
My name is Vicky Noland Fitch and I hold a Bachelor of Social Work degree and I am also a Certified Dementia Practitioner. I have been a dementia caregiver for over 25 years, and I love to help people problem solve when difficult behaviors arise. I live and work out of an 1892 farmhouse deep in the heart of Dixie with my husband, Phil and my ragdoll cat, Contessa. I have one daughter, Emily, and a son in law, Eric.
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Disclaimers and Disclosures:
The information presented herein has been developed by Vicky Noland Fitch, BSW, CDP over a 25+ year career of working primarily as a dementia caregiver, educator, trainer and now as a consultant.
The information provided in this video should not be construed or relied upon as medical advice for any specific fact or circumstance. Its content was prepared by Dementia With Grace for informational and entertainment purposes only. You should not act or rely on any of the information contained herein without seeking professional medical advice.
Any links to products for sale are affiliate links. I earn a little money if you click through and buy it. It costs nothing to you, and adds a little change to my pocket! I would never endorse something I have not personally read or used or believe to be of benefit. If it is here, I have found value in It! ~ Vicky New contact email: [e-mail] for 1:1 consult requests, business inquiries....Thanks! Vicky

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Thanks for watching! This is an interesting subject, which is not always well understood...Let me know what you think! ~Vicky

[@nettyabbott5412]

As a narcissist ages & thier sources of self leave them aka "friends & family members", When the only Sourse remaining is the Child within that they ignored & refused to acknowledge as thier true self ( hence the mimicking / Mirroring of others ), The narc fearing death above all else, unconsciously reverts into the inner child. It's pure survival instinct &a yes, many with dementia babble because they we're born a narcist, many others won't remember visitors because the inner child has never met those people. Narcism is 100% before Dementia happens.

[@kobra0105]

I like the way you explained it Vicky. What was my idea about my mum's condition, I think I can confirm thanks to you. Being with her for months now 24/7, I can clearly see the difference between her NPD and dementia. What all people (except me and my sister) think it's just her dementia, I know it is NPD becoming worse. Dealing with only dementia wouldn't be so hard, but when I recognize NPD, it awake all my resistance and frustration when I was teenager... Thanks for your videos 😘

[@mrs.heathcliff7379]

The dementia has actually made it so my mother was unable to mask her narcissism.

[@Politbarometer]

Same here.

[@Incogneata]

Yes, the mask and gloves are off.

[@darleneh608]

Agreed. My mother had mellowed out a little. She was still nasty, but not as "in your face" about it as she used to be. And then she was diagnosed with dementia, and she's at her nastiest again. I think I have some PTSD from my teenage years, and the last few months dealing with her has really brought it all back - in spades. My dad doesn't necessarily need me to cut myself off, but I feel a great need to protect my mental health so I can't be around her.

[@arleneharvey1677]

Self preservation is important for all the caregivers❤️

[@SpecialAgent-zn1vv]

​@@darleneh608✨️💛

[@A_l84]

The struggle is knowing what is manipulation and what is dementia causing the behavior.

[@1sweffling]

Absolutely, it is driving me insane.

[@ritahemmerly4224]

Me to. I don't reward bad behavior so it is hard to decide hug her or walk away. Still trying to care for me after 5yrs of her trying to break me. Scapegoat here.

[@jorgejacobo7359]

How I deal with my elderly narcissistic mother: I DON'T. There are those of us who are still hoping to get the love, acceptance, approval from our narcissistic parents that we didn't get when we were young. I'm not one of them, not any more.

[@suzziezhills]

Whoa! I hear ya! I went no contact with really all my family because this little nasty woman worked them all. Especially my dad and I was the scapegoat forever. She used to tell me I was the crazy one and I'm the only one who ever had counseling! Now I have to laugh at the absurdity of it but that's because I'm out of the vortex. My sister called with a story about her a few years ago (trying to get me to talk to them all again). My sister has a masters degree in nursing, BTW. She said that 'mom is totally demented now" (as if that is an excuse for a lifetime of mistreatment by her) and then proceeded to tell me how my dad just had gotten her a new car and she couldn't figure out the push button start rather than using a key. WHAT??? A 'totally demented' person just got a new car and this is supposed to be a funny story? So she's driving and could kill someone or something and this is funny? Which illustrates why I had to get out of all that crazy family stuff. They have all lost it! Now she has had a stroke and is far gone with her dementia (from the round about ways I have heard it) and in a nursing home for good. I bet she's a real handful too. Years ago late at night - always stuck the knife in and twisted it when nobody else was there to hear it as usual - she said to me "you know, your grandmother stole you from me. I just don't think that I ever really bonded with you at all". My grandmother was an angel. She saved me and gave me an example and a place to land all my life until she died. As usual, no accountability on my mother's part. But that statement was one of the best days of my life. She finally told the truth. SHE NEVER BONDED WITH ME. I always knew it, always felt it and my dad would try to sell her to me and tell me she loved me. It was always for his peace and comfort, and never to protect me. So he's as bad as she is. Telling me that was a gift. I was in my 40's and emotionally I let her go. For a time, I still wanted my dad in my life so I'd swallow the bitter pill of being around her for him because they were a package. Enough transpired that made me call it quits. I've had 9 of the best years of my whole life without all the abuse and drama. I'm free.

[@reikiwarrior8888]

@@suzziezhills yes your free and i am free too from all the narcs !!! yay

[@foxiefair123]

I was no contact for 3.5 years, and I got hoovered back in recently. It was great for about 6 months, but now she’s back to her old ways, AND now she’s showing dementia symptoms. Except now everyone knows how she really is, so she can’t get away with the same games she used to. We have to take care of her, though, but our care isn’t good enough, though, because she can’t have absolutely everything she wants and it has to be perfect, which isn’t possible.

[@smartmind5422]

Good for you, I hear you and understand you and bless you for choosing to end the suffereing. I just wasnt able to cut mum off, so many friends and therapists told me to and I just couldn't do it.

[@katiedid9601]

I am struggling to stay no contact with my 87 yr old NPD mom(yes officially diagnosed). She is in a retirement community and we’ll cared for….and I’m in my 60s and tired of being her emotional dumpster.

[@smartmind5422]

My mother has been NPD all of her life. I'd been in therapy for 5 years before she was diagnosed with dementia. NPD and now dementia has been impossible. What I have noticed is that her NPD cannot be masked anymore. It's frustrating to hear people write off her behaviour to dementia and it's only me she's ever been abusive to, behind closed doors. No one believes she's been like this all of her life. Thank heavens she's in a care facility now. I still love her and worry about her but I'm glad I don't have to take care of her anymore

[@kobra0105]

I am glad you find solution for your mum. I am in exactly same position and fortunately I have a sister that see and understand things in the same way. Otherwise I become mad, because nobody can believe. We found a great care facility, but she insist she is fine, she just need us with her. And we live in a different countries... 🤞

[@smartmind5422]

@@__-ir6ye I was 48 when I realised she was NPD, her dementia became really bad when she was 73. Loyal to the end, I kept her at home with me as long as I could, I put my whole self aside to care for her (my choice). She became physically violent at age 73, I had no choice but to place her into care.

[@smartmind5422]

@@kobra0105 I'm so happy you have a supportive sister who gets it otherwise it is simply crazy making. Living in different countries is probably safe for you too. All the best

[@terid7996]

I just read your text from a year ago. My husband is a mirror image of your Mom. My husband is 20 years older than me, so he feels like my Dad and has always treated me as such. I'm curious as to how things are going with your Mom?

[@MaryKnight-yk5mh]

Oh my. My Mom. I was only one who would put up with the abuse. At the end she turned on me. Accused me of stealing her $. I was investigated. She gave her$ to my brother who could not handle her but it is OK. I got her personal things and especially. Fam. Pics. I STILL MISS AND LOVE HER❤

[@Wombat1420]

I like your idea of people with dementia moving developmentally backward. Children are naturally self-centered, and when people with dementia reach this stage in their timeline, they may appear narcissistic.

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Wombat1420 ding ding ding!! Exactly. There ARE some narcissistic people who develop dementia, but people with dementia don’t suddenly become narcissistic!

[@CB-hi7mf]

I'm exhausted dealing with her!!!

[@goodpony1971]

Having a witness is so validating in this special case. Knowing we’re not alone, and there are others who have been to hell and back, is very important. Thank you & bless you all ❤

[@reikiwarrior8888]

my brother is downsyndorme and now has dementia as a result of living with narc sister, she won't allow me to see him unless its thru her and have it all her way, she is evil and dark, i am no contact with her evil ass i am gona fight tooth and nail to save my brother from her evilness, please pray for me thank you for your message it has really helped me to identify whats happening with my golden soul brother

[@FreeJulianAssange23]

My grandma has accused everyone in the family of either trying to poison her or steal something. I’ve tried tirelessly to defend her as we’ll explain the truth to her. When I use logical facts that prove her accusations false, she lies changing her story. It’s like she doesn’t want the truth. Even with a voice recorder she wouldn’t believe the truth. It’s so frustrating.

[@stephaniewillis1816]

You will spend the rest of her life trying to convince her otherwise. Use distraction when possible, they become fixated on a topic.

[@BoLeee]

As Stephane said, it seems kind of waste of energy, time and relationship to argue and convince someone with dementia otherwise...

[@privateinfo1711]

First, I really adored my grandmother! She had Alzheimer's. She kept a little bit of cash in a change purse and guarded it with her life. She was afraid of someone stealing it. I think that was a manifestation of her basic personality.

[@Rebecca-1111]

It's easier entering their world. I did that while caring for my dad. His mom passed away so I would go along with it when he said he had just had coffee with her and she was doing great. Otherwise I had to see his heart break and relive his mother's death. I just ask if he had a good time.

[@geraldineross5168]

My husband was never a narcissist in our many years of marriage but in the last five years he thinks of no one but himself. My husband was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s Dementia last October in 2020, he is in stage four and has changed so much, his personality especially. I am his only caregiver and he always thought I was the smartest woman when he married me 54 years ago but in the last five years he finds criticisms in everything I do or say. It is so frustrating but I know it is his dementia talking and not him.

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Big hugs. It is the disease. All my love! Vicky

[@robbiewooden5067]

Thanks for sharing

[@foxysopho643]

Wow my Mom is a narcissist/dementia and she is paranoid all the time you just described her in a nut shell

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Yep. Narcissism is pretty much the same across-the-board. And it doesn’t show up suddenly with a diagnosis of dementia. It is usually a lifelong manifestation. I think I did discuss this in this video, however, it has been a little while since I filmed it.

[@abowling5759]

@@DementiaWithGraceyou did a great job describing this narcissism/dementia situation. Thank you, Vicky.♥️

[@boxadorsrus5991]

My 97 year old dad has been a malignant narcissist since way before I was born. He is clueless about his narcissism. In fact. he thinks himself quite the saint because of some of his professional accomplishments many many decades ago. A couple of years ago, he began showing signs of dementia. He has told me repeatedly he thinks he has severe memory loss. So he is a narcissist (a character trait) and now also has dementia (a brain disease). He has a persistent delusion that I have to wire up his food and his microwave oven to a computer, a computer program, and a mouse in order to cook it, as one of many examples of a brain in decline. One approaches a narcissist with caution knowing the narcissist is going to try to mess you up. One approaches a dementia patient ideally with love for the person and respect for the brain disease process. It's a balancing act incorporating the two completely contrary approaches.

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Well said. It’s a balancing act.

[@coreyanderson1457]

I think that once a person experiences a very overt narcissist for the first time, and they finally figure out that it's narcissistic personality disorder or very likely to be in someone they are close to or maybe worked with, then, they are able to see it in others more quickly. This happened to me, my previous partner first, then two relatives. One I am not sure about, but, the other I am realizing that this is probably why she has always acted this way. It's very hard to find out that I have been raised around a narcissist, but growing up, I knew that there was something not right even as a child and teen, but I was confused as to what it was. I nevee understood why she behaved the way she did, and as she has aged, it's gotten more aggressive. In my experience, I think they tend to be very self centered, even at the expense of people like their own family or spouse, they tend to not have empathy (real sympathy), sometimes they like to make threats/false accusations if you say anything to speak up for yourself, no matter how nicely you approach the concern. It's as though you're not a person.

[@heavyjoechipman3594]

I'm 53. Mom is 74. She's always been a narcissist. I'm dealing with it. Its very tough to take care of someone who abused you from day one. Still verbally abuses me. But the bible says to honor her. So, i'll do that. I'll cry to God and into my pillow.☺❤🙏👍

[@DementiaWithGrace]

I understand that commitment. However, that is also the reason why I say “person with dementia“ because when others say “loved ones“ that’s not always completely the case. All my love, Vicky

[@anneoconnorao]

My Christian therapist said that she believes that God doesn't require us to honor what is not honorable. We honor the parent role but not their behavior.

[@cynthiakhan5483]

@@anneoconnoraolove this!

[@MaryKnight-yk5mh]

My hopes for you. People who don't experience it have no clue. It is tough. ❤

[@heavyjoechipman3594]

@@MaryKnight-yk5mh Thank you sister Mary. Your words comforted me.❤😊👍

[@NaughtWrite]

Thank you for explaining this to me. I needed to know I wasn’t crazy in what I was seeing in my mom.

[@phillosophy5103]

Lisa Ramono has some cool videos on narcissistic personality disorder.

[@jadeoshaunessy8407]

We are not a psychiatric facility when you can't cope with their narcissm coupled with dementia it's time to let specialist handled their problems

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Agree.

[@ritahemmerly4224]

As her POA I have no choice but to stay, 95 narc with stage5 or 6 dementia. When I asked siblings for help got ghosted. So memory care and low contact.

[@stephaniewillis1816]

Married to that right now both issues. It’s a nightmare

[@chetbailey1529]

Poor lady. greatest sympathy from Cornwall, UK. xx

[@BanditXL]

What about a narcissistic person who develops dementia lateron in life .. worst combination ever

[@earlylyte1]

This exactly what I'm dealing with. She removed my medical and general poa just to be spiteful. She's cast me as the villain.

[@privateprivate8366]

What does one do about a parent who OBVIOUSLY has problems with primarily undiagnosed NPD and, likely secondarily, possible onset dementia - but absolutely REFUSES to be taken for diagnosis, because instead, they want you to be a fire extinguisher at their house, which is not on offer as, you work for a living? And, yes! I, sincerely, wonder how people do it! I work on a job where I cannot make mistakes. I consider my situation with my mother where she likely needs help but, I am not her caregiver. I cannot and will not be taken away from my livelihood, my healthcare and my retirement, so she can bleed my life dry. I also do not have the type of patience that can switch from taking it up the ass all day and, then, be forced to sit, having what is essentially a person control the remainder of my life. It would not be healthy - for either of us. I can only assume that what MUST be done, which I’ve told my mother before, that both of her properties will need to be sold to contribute to her care in a state facility. Other than that, I don’t know what she’s going to do. People can say it’s only dementia but, that’s because they don’t know. She’s manipulative and she wants me at her house NOW when I haven’t see her in almost 3 years. If telling me she has something she can only tell me in person didn’t get me there on Jan 1, then claiming she’s terrified of some “tool left I. Her house”, which demands my presence, rather than the police, on Jan 2, will suffice. Neither worked. Even with pleading and the UGLY CRY. I already know that going to her house would be the same s a kidnapping. “Don’t leave. Why can’t you stay? Come back tomorrow (so I don’t have to call you incessantly or call your job and have people looking for you or even police looking for you.” This person even called the police before Thanksgiving twice and had a police officer at my door once. When they asked her questions, she played dumb - but that didn’t prevent her from fixing her phone so, if I called from my job, it would validate the number. Yeah, dementia... It isn’t dementia either, when you remind her that she called the police and not only said she didn’t call me or them 2 hours later, before Thanksgiving. It doesn’t matter that, when I reminded her of that yesterday, she decided to flip it as “me calling the police on her”. Yes, she’s got skills. Unfortunately for her, this is not something I’m going to keep living and it sounds like my sister isn’t either as, my mother called on Christmas to tell me that my sister became very angry with her and did everything but hit her. She’s innocent on every count. It’s one of the reasons why I’m not stupid enough to go to her house. I have no idea what she might say I tried to do to her. I guess I’ll have to wait until the police snatch her up again and make their own choices as to what to do with her. I can see how you don’t even have to live with a malignant, covert narcissist and you can lose your damn mind. Even as a narcissist, who doesn’t mind negative supply, she only thinks she wants to make me lose my job and become trapped there with her. Fortunately, I grey rock TF out of her.

[@DementiaWithGrace]

You’ve got it. If you absolutely cannot deal with her because of an undiagnosed and untreated cognitive disorder and probably malignant personality disorder, what will happen is she will become a ward of the state and a guardian ad litem will be assigned. That person will have her mandated to a care facility and her assets will be sold at fair market value to pay for her care. Once that money is exhausted, she will be on state aid (usually State Medicaid unless she has some form of LTC insurance or her Medicare covers the charge). Her guardian ad litem will be listed as next of kin. That’s basically the long and short of it. I do not judge one way or another. There are people who say “no. I will not sacrifice another ounce of sanity” and that’s a very personal decision that is made knowing the whole story. I am very, very sorry that you’re in a situation like this. I am very, very sorry her life choices have relegated her to this situation. It is more difficult than anyone can imagine unless you’re in it, and I have been extremely close to more cases than I can say. All my love, Vicky

[@privateprivate8366]

Dementia With Grace KZbin than you SO VERY MUCH for your reply. I’m certain that so many are left not knowing what to do or knowing what will happen. There are also so many mixed feelings. Feelings of anger at what she’s done to you and feelings of terrible empathy, because you don’t know how much of it she’s simply not in control of. Absolutely blocking any help that doesn’t require you to stop living is also such a huge factor. Because of the likely dynamic of NPD and, possibly, dementia, as well as intended to diabetes, it is a HORRID spiral to experience, even when you feel the person will just about hang themselves to lure and hoover you. My mother sounded as if she was in the midst of being murdered, while trying to get me to come there - with the qualifications being that I not involve the police or tell my sister and she left about 4 subsequent voicemail messages to ensure it. This was the day after she tried to hoover me with something she needed to tell me - but, it could ONLY be in person and a week after she said my sister grew angry with her and did everything but hit her. To 99% of people, I’d sound like a horrible daughter, who’s never loved my mother, when I thought we’d been closer than anyone, including my younger sister. But, our history began to darken, when my stepfather passed in 2009 and the typical manipulation, triangular, smear campaigning, and gaslighting began, until I stopped seeing her in 2018. People (as well as her), probably feel that the ONLY thing I want is to get my hands on her property, particularly as the global economic situation looks to be so grim. But, although she has 2 paid for properties that she’s always said she’d leave to my sister and I, when things got really bad in 2018, I’d told her a few times that she’d need them to cover her care. To hurt me, she let me know that she was letting my long absent sister inherit the other property early but, my sister has not moved in, to my knowledge as, it is cluttered, is in poor condition, she works 3+ jobs and may have begun to recognize that it’s a Trojan horse, 4 doors from mom. But, she also doesn’t know about the 5 year look back period where, if mom still had to be cared for by the state, my sister might not retain the property anyway. I cannot care for her. I’m in a situation where I work for a woman who, while she’s a friend to a point, her culture dictates extreme filial piety, that I care for my mother and have unaffected work performance. The kind of situation where you do extra things for the company which save time and money, but the moment you make a mistake, you’re in question and being judged. The kind of situation where I suspect that it might be, “You’re to care for your mother full time and do this job full time, or I’ll mess up your future.” I’m also trying to make my vested date so that I actually do have some type of eldercare if/when I reach my mother’s age, despite my mother trying to loosen the screws under my livelihood by calling there, when I hadn’t provided her the number. Painful as others see her as THAT’S YOUR MOTHER and I see a crazy predator, that may have secondary and tertiary psychological and emotional issues, compounded by medical ones and, as you know, no one else sees any issue with you fixing it, even with your own death. I’ll close by saying that, in this issue with her saying there’s a hammer in her house that she didn’t recognize, I saw the possibilities of other things happening. The possibility of her being determined to violate personal space despite the pandemic. The possibility of her switching up and screaming that I was tying to kill her with a hammer. At minimum and because it’s likely to be mostly a hoover, if I came to see her that day, I should be there all day, everyday, at her beckon call, with her neighbors to possibly verify my comings and goings and any other weirdness that may go on there. If I ever actually HAD to go to her house, I would only go with a body cam (I have the FrontRow camera) AND a police officer. I trust NOTHING with her.

[@privateprivate8366]

Of course, now that I’ve started my workday, despite the fact that she signed for a certified cease and desist letter just after Thanksgiving, she has called twice so far, because she really wants me to visit her - and bring ice cream. Wants to sit and chat, because she hasn’t seen me in some time. Can’t tell if it’s dementia or just a different approach, out of 3, in about 4 days time. Although she’s said in the past that she “doesn’t entertain what she doesn’t wish to be told” and although she is still deft at switching stories in her favor, it’s tough to tell what I’m looking at. I also feel sorry for the 2 cats she has. They looked healthy, when I was going to her house to care for them in early 2018. But, I don’t know now. I only know that I tried to get her to not take them in, back in 2012. I cannot take them as, there is a pet limit in my complex and I already have 2 cats in my 1 bedroom apartment. Well, I do know I’m not alone though. This creates such a flaming hot mess in the lives of so many.

[@jadephoenix51]

Lord save me! Married to covert narc And I'm an Empath🤒

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Jade O'Shaunessy I hear ya. I’m an empath who WAS married to a narc.

[@doggette2]

wow,this was my mother until the end of her life.And when dementia is added she was a total SHITHEAD.

[@barbarariepe8334]

Jade O'Shaunessy I’m also a Empath and my mom is very hard to be around! :( I’m thinking of you. God Bless! I’m also a only child so I’m all she has.

[@smartmind5422]

Get out before he gets dementia! My narc mother has dementia and it's made my life an absolute hell

[@Rebecca-1111]

🙏 Lord help you.

[@nikkimadison6892]

Everybody says that how u wer in ur youth ull be in old age..most of time I believe

[@jakeserdynski4338]

Thank you Dementia with Grace! I talked to my maternal grandfather only three times in the last 7 years. He made several racist comments and my best friend is black and it bothered me deeply and not to mention the guy is controlling and abusive mostly to his wife and family talks behind everyone's back and has a silly nickname for everyone even me. Now after not talking with my mother for 7 years I started talking to her 6 months ago and that's been going great she informed me that she does not engage with her father anymore or brother anymore due to their toxic behavior and narcissism. I also have dislike for my grandfather's wife who is not my grandmother, my real grandmother died over 30 years ago. She defends her toxic narcissistic husband and gaslighted me and let's him control her to the point where she felt she had to read him text messages I was sending to her. Now my mother informed me that he's had inset dementia for some years now and that he has sundown syndrome. Also my grandfather and his wife always had friends coming over to visit and now hardly any if any at all come around. My grandfather is mad at his wife's sister because he was making appalling statements and possibly verbally attacking her and called him a fuckin son of a bitch excuse my language. And my grandfather's wife denies that that's what she said but I know him he's a racist scum so he was probably talking that way. To make matters worse my grandfather's wife's sister has biracial children and lived in Africa for 50 years I mean Jesus Christ the man is nuts. And now he has dementia so I imagine he's a real picnic now so I'm staying away don't even know that I will attend his funeral due to his disrespect of my mother and me and kids and basically everybody he's come into contact with. He also plays the victim card because his wife told me that "he's been hurt by family" which I can assure you never happened. And then tried to justify his bigotry by saying that he knew some members of a certain group that weren't good people. But he himself was never a good person. Nothing but a woman and child abuser. So right when she was justifying his insanity was my cue to get out of the toxic narcissistic relationship. Also this man is a malignant question asker and extremely nosey. Also he wants me to call him but he never calls me so that tells me he doesn't want to talk to me much. And when I did call he went into control mode and wanted to take me up to his cottage and set up a time to meet right away which was weird. The manipulation that these people subjected me to is astounding but they'll never admit it because they're one of the biggest gaslighters in the world.

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Thinking of you. The dementia is hard, and layered on top of the narcissistic behavior makes everything worse.

[@privateprivate8366]

Sometimes, you need to pick apart things to see whether your parent has a lot of narcissistic traits, actual NPD or dementia. Sometimes, it is a combination though. My mother does forget things. But, I’ve seen where she’s also used feigned memory loss for a few reasons. She’s said, a few times, that she “doesn’t remember that which she doesn’t wish to entertain”. That simply means that she isn’t interested in anything that doesn’t serve her. At this point, now that she’s 76 and will soon be 77, it’s possible that, even when she’s questioned by police, she may be using memory loss or even disorientation to make it appear as if she’s a vulnerable, little ole lady that needs eldercare from her daughters. She has neuropathy, because she’s refused seeing whether she has diabetes for decades and, even when an emergency room doctor said she was diabetic (blood sugar at 250) and prescribed metformin, I doubt she took a single pill. Tooth loss, neuropathy. Still in complete denial, although I do know that some or all of this could be as a result of the aging process. But, in addition to this, while I know she could simply be writing notes to herself or being reminded by my flying monkey younger sister, with all the memory loss and/or disorientation that the police recently said she has, she doesn’t ever seem to miss bill payments she actually wants to pay. She decided to stop filing her taxes maybe 8 years ago, which I told her will come back to haunt her. But, it seems that she has no problem keeping her electricity, water and phone bills paid. But, what has happened in the last day or so also eludes to less dementia and more narcissistic behavior. She called yesterday to wish me a Happy Thanksgiving. Obviously, it was Election Day and Thanksgiving is at least 2 weeks away. She was saying that she’d thought about us celebrating it together. But, I have told her previously that I no longer celebrate the holidays and with the pandemic, I wouldn’t be participating anyway. Her voicemail message asked that I call her back but, when I did, I got a message that her number doesn’t accept calls from blocked Caller IDs and mine is blocked. What I derive from this is that, although she obtained my work number through the phone company 2 years ago, as I wouldn’t provide it to her, she recently said she couldn’t find it. Each time she’s said it, I’ve reminded her that I sent her a certified cease and desist letter 2 year ago that she signed for and that she’s not to call there. But, she doesn’t care about that and she doesn’t care that my employer might come after her either. But, recently, she’s said that she can’t find the number. It frustrates her and, at one point, she actually sounded pretty demonic about wanting my work number. For those not versed in narcissistic abuse, that is control. The thing that narcissists want most. She doesn’t like being told she can’t call there and she doesn’t believe I’ve been WFH since the start of the pandemic. So, what she’s done is made it so she calls me, asks for a callback and the only way I can call her back is to unblock my number. Perhaps, she feels, if I cal her back from work, she doesn’t have to worry about losing my work number again and I will have, essentially, provided her with my workplace number, wherever I might be working, just by a return call. What I’m getting to is that this doesn’t sound like a dementia patient. This sounds like someone who is strategizing and determined, which is typical to narcissistic behavior. That I am not to have decision-making rights because she is my mother. Never mind that I’m in my fifties. To her, she is not the one who is confused. I am. She may also use my lack of getting through as another opportunity to call the police for a faux welfare check. Again, dementia? I don’t think so.

[@privateprivate8366]

Another thing I’d like to mention is that, a couple of years ago, when she was staying with my sister and I was picking up her mail, caring for her cats, etc. I’d seen a letter regarding long term care. It said that I was the designated child to be contacted, if it were to lapse. Another letter came later that said that there were no designees. While I’m not entirely sure how that works, when I consider her other, rather questionable and often psychologically-abusive behaviors, I’m under the impression that that it’s possible she intentionally removed me, didn’t put my sister in or may have “consciously” decided to cancel it. That she may have decided that, the only way my sister and I were to inherit anything, including her 2 properties, was to be the caregivers ourselves, which is a change in her stated intentions and, as per what I understand regarding narcissism, they have contractual relationships. To be brief, while I know there are many who are caregivers to their parents, canceling her long term care, if she did, would provide her with far lesser quality care. These are not economic times, and they never were in my sister and my lives, where anyone will be quitting jobs or switching jobs, in the interest of her care. My sister works 3+ jobs and, although I only have one job, which provides me with long term care benefits, my job is my #1 priority. She’s not allowed to harass me there, as she’s tried in the past and I won’t have her interfering. So, if she feels that canceling her care was a good idea, if that’s what she actually did, that is a grave mistake. Despite the often worried about idea of “my children want my money”, I’ve told her a few times that the property and assets she has are for the purpose of her eldercare. This would be a rude awakening to my sister. But, unless she is willing to work 3+ jobs and be awake round the clock, while our mother cracks the whip, she will have to release any ideas of inheritance and she doesn’t realize that she might be happier for it, in the future as, no one needs to or has to serve an abuser. Not even if they’re a parent. Psychologists who are expert in the topic of narcissism have state that you have no obligation to anyone who mistreats other abuses you. So, while I feel sorry for the downward spiraling path my mother’s life is taking her, I wish her the best in her journey.

[@lalithasundararaman1691]

I don't think narcissm is related to dementia. dementia is purely a degeneration process and progressive.

[@privateprivate8366]

@@lalithasundararaman1691 I’m definitely no expert. But, from what I’ve gathered, from what I could, before and after I went no contact with my mother, is that dementia may not be related to narcissism, but that dementia may not be a linear decline necessarily. That, during any measure of decent lucidity, narcissistic behavior might become part of it because of the rage of growing old. This was something I saw in my mother, long before she was considered “aging” or “old”. I get the feeling she saw changes in herself that I could not detect and that she almost couldn’t admit, except in her attempts to try to destroy me. She passed away 3 months ago. I’m glad she’s out of her misery.

[@MaryKnight-yk5mh]

Omg. My Mom. HAD to have total control. Could be sweet and giving but it always came at a price.

[@privateprivate8366]

@@MaryKnight-yk5mh yeah, I remember having a conversation with her about marriage. I was a quite a bit over the hill for ever getting married, but, when I spoke of marrying out [of my race], because I still had feelings for someone who’d shown interest some years prior, she told me she could mess that up for me. I didn’t know about narcissism back then. But, I shot back that she wouldn’t necessarily know if I got married… So, when I look back, I think that loss of control was one of the things that got me scapegoated. Because it is either control or discard. Note also that, because my stepfather was a black historian, me marrying out (even though he had in his first marriage), was not the image she wanted present. So, I was an image/object for her. She was, however, interested, during that specific conversation, in connecting me with a man up the street from her, who appeared to also have a very controlling mother. It might’ve been quite the thing. Him living with his controlling mother, me living with him and his mother (perhaps) and both of us, living on the same street, as our controlling, possibly narcissistic mothers. Other than my malignant narcissistic sister, who has broken into my house and changed the lock, against the court, during probate, I really can’t think of a more volatile situation. So many reasons I left, including that I wasn’t taking any sh*t.

[@rachangel1951]

So glad I found you and your channel. 💗

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Thank you!!! Glad you found help here!

[@1sweffling]

I am the only care giver for my husband. All our married lives he has been an alcoholic, manipulative and gaslighting. A Pshychologist friend said he is a covert narcissist, always a victim, with no responsiblity for his behaviour, always blaming me. However, he comes over as sweet, long suffering, and saintly. I always get reeled in, over and over, because I mostly cannot see the behaviour. Now he has several dementias: our doctor says he is not manipulating me, but the local mental health team says he is. I am going insane with self doubt not knowing what is dementia behaviour that he cannot help and therefore I want to be caring and compassionate, or what is manipulative behaviour which has robbed me of any life of my own. It is so hard to find advice and literature on this subject.

[@lizisler9415]

Hod please you ! Thank you for your help.

[@Lorrainna1]

My husband is all about himself and calls himself a warrior. Brags about all the woman he had and can still have. I just agree with him and tell him how handsome he is. Then he tells me how beautiful I am lol. OCD accelerated with my Husband stage 4,5 and we're talking dishes laundry...but yet he hangs his clothes on every knob nail hook or door he can find. I just go behind him and grab it all around each room LOL

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Lorraine Pellegrino so frustrating! It’s wonderful that you love him so well and work around the frustrations!!

[@lanceevans1689]

Thank you! Very helpful. And you are very charming.

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

I have a question. I have a friend that I have seen changes in the last few years and do not know if it's dementia or just Narcissism that I did not see before. She has always appeared very intelligent, put together, organized and caring. Also very dressed up no matter what the occasion, very picky eater and a very needy friend for validation and approval. These are long time traits. In the last few years, she has become very disorganized with bursts of cleaning it up. She has spent all of her money and filed bankruptcy. Sold her house and gambled all of it away or spent it on "top of the line stuff" no matter what it is, it has to be top of the line with the extended warranty. She recalls conversations that never took place or maybe had with someone else, and twists things around that were said to suit her. She is on the phone every single day with someone about a bill that is wrong or returning something that she claims she never ordered. She is in complete denial about her hearing problem and has gone into rages about it with me and with medical professionals. I have studied Alzheimer's when I was in school, and now have had a brief look at the Covert Narcissist thinking that maybe it's just who she is. Otherwise she does not seem to have a memory or thinking problem, that I have noticed. What are your thoughts on this? I certainly do not want to miss the signs of Alzheimer disease. Because she is living in my house and it's becoming a mess with her unfinished projects. If it's that, then medical help is needed and I must get her children involved as we are just long time friends. If it's just that she's been hiding the narc tendencies from me then that is a different approach to detach myself from this situation. Thank you!!

[@sajathedecided9016]

There are some sleep medications, with a warning it can cause dementia, and now I’m learning about narcissistic people. I have a theory that some medication can make people «narcissistic» and with narcissism it somehow leads to dementia. Why, I don’t know, but maybe it’s because they were so young when «great things happened» and a narc will always think greatly about themself, and if not in older days, they choose the younger days to think about.

[@DementiaWithGrace]

I don’t think there’s a direct correlation between narcissism and dementia, per se. In my 30 years of working primarily with dementia, and the non dementia elderly, I can say that there are many elderly, narcissistic people who have intact cognition into their 80s and 90s. It never progresses to dementia. The information about the sleep medication leading to cognitive loss and dementia is a known issue. Thank you for interacting with the video! Vicky

[@Rebecca-1111]

​@@DementiaWithGracecan melatonin cause that? Thank you.

[@DandyDuh]

​@@Rebecca-1111 No

[@peacechildpeace3609]

Very nice, Thank you. Peace.

[@staceydelbucchia2576]

Thank you...God bless💖

[@DementiaWithGrace]

stacey del bucchia You are so welcome!! Happy to help! ~love and joy! Vicky

[@jeffm8206]

This is very helpful. I could have listened about this for 2 more hours. From what I've learned so far, I think I'm dealing with the combination of FTD and CNPD. On one hand I get irritated and mad that I fell for the mask of NPD and then my empathy as a husband kicks in and I naturally feel sad for her dealing with the FTD which her family has a history of. Up and down; on and off, all the time... Thank-you!

[@MackerelCat]

Thanks.

[@chante707]

It escalates to dementia

[@suzannehousden1779]

Thank you this was helpful

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Glad it helped!

[@LilM0ke]

They lose their fear or apprehension and any concept of boundaries. Its like being around a psychological demon

[@CB-hi7mf]

She's mad that she doesn't have a job. She's 86, no job skills

[@nikkimadison6892]

True

[@manicmaggie]

The only help for me right now is that due her declining memory she forgets to constantly phone me some days. 😒

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Totally get that. It is relief for you, and probably also for her. Constantly calling, or asking 1000 questions (or the SAME question over and over) is rooted in anxiety. Hopefully her anxiety has also lessened. Big hugs! Visit the group over on Facebook if you haven’t already! Facebook.com/dementiawithgrace

[@karinlarsen2608]

What if narcissism is a handicap like blindness / deafness. What if their behavior is a coping skill learned as children to survive? Can't we just protect ourselves by ending the conversation when it becomes negative?

[@DementiaWithGrace]

You have an interesting take on it, and I guess it could be seen as that. I actually do believe that, at least in the beginning, it IS a coping mechanism that a person uses, and then it turns into something that is a maladaptive disease process/diagnosis. I do know that people who have been exposed to narcissism all of their life i.e. from a parent or people who have been exposed to narcissism in a marriage for instance, have extensive trauma from being exposed to that personality disorder. The point of my video was to differentiate between a lifelong narcissism versus a “narcissism” that develops in a person with dementia. If narcissism is going to develop it usually develops early. So you would not see a narcissism per se develop in a person in their 70s or 80s. Thank you for your response and your insight. ❤️ Vicky

[@MD.orion1]

People have free will to change especially when they see that their behaviour can destroy whole families. Well guess what, they never change, their narcissism becomes worse. They are evil, destructive people.

[@katydid594]

Narcissism is 100% a coping strategy developed in early childhood as a response to trauma. Unlike other personality disorders, most people with NPD do pretty well by society’s standards because they don’t care about being judged, fitting in, or being team players. In many ways, their disorder benefits them in both business and society. The people who love them and their immediate family are the ones who suffer.

[@bev4155]

My MIL had a stroke and could no longer can hold the masks in place. We are being told it's dementia, but I disagree. Regardless she's in a locked ward where she belongs. For the first time in her life someone else is in charge and she melted down more everyday. She was hiding knives and someone was going to get hurt.

[@langreeves6419]

I probably won't be demanding anybody to wait on me I'll probably be demanding that I do everything for myself

[@kathyluepke9964]

Ocd or oppositional defiant and dementia

[@Indigo_newness]

What if they have both

[@DementiaWithGrace]

That can happen. And it’s a difficult mix. Once they get in the deeper stages, it all settles down and they become more child like. Until then, hold on and hang in there! Join the group for support!! ❤️ Vicky

[@JohnnyCatFitz]

Lordy, this is a bit sad. Since, for several years my dad seemed to just be ' getting old' and more like himself! So how do you imagine it's dementia?? We thought he was just getting more set in his ways. He had predisposition to not being a big talker, impulsiveness, at times hot tempered, and more. It did not seem abnormal. 🙁

[@DementiaWithGrace]

It CAN be just a personality trait that gets more entrenched. And NOT dementia. If he is having no forgetfulness, no word finding difficulties, no trouble managing his own affairs...it can just be getting older!! I’m interested, what did you search? Are you seeing anything else that makes you wonder IF it could be dementia?

[@heleneg525]

Hey, Grace! I never knew that you knew my brother! (ha, ha) All kidding aside, you've described him to a "T." He's getting even nastier and more arrogant now that he has dementia.

[@kimmccaleb4170]

Narcissism. It seems everyone likes to diagnose others with narcissism these days. Perhaps of instead of looking for the label, we could show compassion, value the other person unconditionally, and focus on unconditional love, instead of focusing on taking their inventory to see if it is diagnoable narcissism. Love . Unconditional love without labelling. Seek yo meet their needs for dignity, compassion, worth and value. If everyone who is being accused of narcissism really were diagnosable, then we'd be inserious trouble. Stop labelling and start lovingwill make the most difference....positive difference. Have boundRies, internal and e ternal, dont enable....and love better and more.

[@tgrim4002]

My husband and I have been together 30 years. He is 89. After much research, I have diagnosed him with low spectrum narcissism with early dementia now. I'm not sure I can do this any more, but how do you leave a 90 year old man?

[@privateprivate8366]

It’s hard as hell to leave a narcissistic parent, who seems to have onset dementia also, however, I also know that I will not be quitting livelihood to be my mother’s live-in victim either. There is still life in me and, as she told me she’d always just used me, that usage is over.

[@all4paws508]

I'm sooooo sorry😭 I have exactly the same 'issue' so understand completely. Sending strength and blessings from South Africa 🙏🇿🇦

[@rachjoe6]

Vicky... O... obsessions

[@DementiaWithGrace]

sharon sandoval GREAT! I was thinking that or outbursts!!

[@rachjoe6]

@@DementiaWithGrace this is me... Sharon Lee😁

[@fredmad4988]

"order out of chaos" - a trait of dementia patient, a new world order made by dementia patients....

[@mariamkinen8036]

My name is Dementia McAllister.? Eh. if I got it right?

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Maria Makinen huh? I’m not following!!

[@leticiagracie6163]

I have to disagree... I work in a memory card unit. Someone who is selfish it is magnified. I know quite a few people who are selfless (they happen to be Jesus followers) and they are not narcissistic in anyway shape or form!!! I disagree with this 100% I think that in this world today we have a lot of selfish people and that’s all we have on steroids when they are having dementia!!

[@DementiaWithGrace]

Leticia Gracie I wonder if you watched the whole video!! I think we agree!

[@leticiagracie6163]

Yes I did watch the whole video 😄

[@leticiagracie6163]

I watch the whole video, commented and then I recommended your videos to my mother

[@loverofthetruth6085]

Isn't that what she just said? Seems to me you just reworded what she said in her video, so to say you disagree is kind of odd.

[@LorenaMontoya7]

I new it! The mask fall off

[@user-oq3et5kc6v]

She was always a narcissist

[@danielstevenson1250]

Why doesn’t God heal dementia????

[@terrylynndelman]

Why doesn’t God heal Narcissists? He gives them a free will & they don’t want to change. I don’t know the answer about dementia?

[@danielstevenson1250]

@@terrylynndelman thx

[@tiffanyglenn8175]

My father is a narcissist with dementia, the dementia has made the narcissism tenfold

[@CandyKitty_Doll]

So is my grandma

[@sunnystardust1008]

My mother.

[@anitagoodson198]

I'm sorry. My husband is doing this now.

[@ellymorales9269]

Greeeeeaaaat….

[@josephinestory9091]

THE Narc left me 🙏🙂 in my 70th year after 50+ years ! One of his forever threats was that he could leave me any time he liked … until eventually my answer was “to GO and I’d help him pack”. He was so shocked, never imagining I’d do it, and I emptied his stuff out of the house and sent him packing! It’s taken 7 years to heal and become strong and happy, independent and feel huge 6:37 self worth. Everyone had seen us as “ the ideal couple” 😅 because I’d covered up forever, and his abuse, covert, had been behind closed doors. Suddenly everyone saw him as he really is. He managed to snaffle the next victim (he’d cheated forever) AND now he’s diagnosed with Alzheimers. I AM FOREVER GRATEFUL for dodging the biggest (bullet) canon fire EVER.

[@daveh9551]

My 93 year old grandmother has dementia and Alzheimer’s, but she has always been a witch according to my mom. I’ve been spending more time with her and it just seems Ike the disease has lifted her filter. She’ll rant and complain , but then 5 mins later she won’t remember it. It just doesn’t seem consistent because she only does that around family, not strangers who she’s friendly to. I can’t stand being around her. Selfishness overload , but like I said she’s been like that since I was a kid.