Narcissism in Ministry

What is a narcissist? Are you a narcissist? How can you spot a narcissist? How can churches protect themselves from narcisissm. By Dr. Duncan Forbes, an Urban Ministry Program webinar. www.urbanministries.org.uk
You can download the handout here www.dropbox.co...
sources used:
Glenn Ball & Darrell Puls. Let Us Prey: The Plague of Narcissist Pastors and What We Can Do About It. Oregon: Cascade Books, 2017.
www.mayoclinic...
Diane Langberg, Narcissism and the System it Breeds, • Narcissism and the Sys...
Sam Vaknin ‘No Significant others, only supply sources. • Video
Sam Vaknin ‘Divorcing a Narcissist’ • Video
Sam Vaknin on KZbin ‘What is the difference between Aspergers and NPPD?’ • What is the difference...
Rev. Ken Garrett, pastor of Grace Church in Southwest Portland, cited in catholicsentin...
'Saul Syndrome' by Duncan Forbes • 'Saul Syndrome'

[@susanblake9037]

I've been a Christian and in church attendance for around 30 years. In my experience you would struggle to find a church leader who wasn't a narcissist. I've now come out of church but am still with God.

[@faithhope7704]

Exactly! Thankyou!!

[@noturningback2023]

Me too. I had to leave.

[@lamonthicks9555]

I don't want too leave but its amazing. how many narrisstic pastors there are.Not only is it hard to find a good church its hard to find a sincere Pastor.

[@catherinepositano8544]

Same here!...and they got $8,5000 out of my pocket!

[@Mrs.CGraves]

They ALL have huge ego’s, huge lovers of materialistic things, huge lovers of worship of themselves. The church is a group of broken people who found comfort, hope, love and acceptance in Jesus Christ. The pastors KNOW this. Now, there are a rare few who are Bible preaching and live accordingly and don’t need the pastor worship.. (watch the wives too) They DO exist, there are good churches out there and remember all Pastors are humans who are of the same sinful nature as us, who too, have found a love of Christ. They only know more about biblical teachings because they studied it. So you too must study it.

[@revelationsix]

In almost 50 years of Christian life, I have run into so much of this and so many victims. I think that part of the problem is with the seminary industrial complex. Also, the hierarchical way that we do church. But, ultimately... it's sin in the church that allows the wolves to tear the church apart.

[@DunkForbes]

Yes it’s so sad that it’s so common.

[@valeriewalkerwhite9525]

It's been there for decades...ask those who had to flee and run for their emotional and mental lives.

[@loriharper3461]

Oh my! You just saved someone's life.

[@khristanelson5076]

Been through this in multiple churches and in small online groups. It wasn’t until multiple experiences that I learned about spiritual narcissism and narcissism in general. It was shocking to me to put it together! Narcissism is very sick.

[@DunkForbes]

Sorry to hear that Khrista

[@glorious6779]

I believe it's biblical tho. Bible talks of wolves in sheep's clothing. It would be good to see the word of God more I light of this. Every thing this guys says is on point.

[@writeousrhema]

Excellent content! Sadly, in the Charismatic churches we like charismatic and very gifted leaders. So it's very easy for them to hide in Pentecostal churches

[@joanieyeung6566]

I have learned to always be aware of anyone who comes across as 'charming'. A healthy mature person usually comes across as kind and respectful, but not charming. If 'charming' is a top quality that comes to your mind when you think of a new church leader, be very very careful.

[@msims1081]

Yes, the Bible even calls charm “deceitful.”

[@beneiseoleinmheart5614]

What is your version of charming?

[@glorious6779]

On point

[@glorious6779]

@@beneiseoleinmheart5614 I would say super friendly and smiley. Did you know love bombing actually came from the early years in catholic church. They would love bomb them to charm them. And alot of us are vulnerable seeking love and acceptance so we become brain washed with there charm.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

@@beneiseoleinmheart5614 charming usually means elevating and overstating gifts, skills, personality traits, ability at your job etc when they actually don't know you well enough to have real in depth insight into these areas. They are attempting to make you feel good in and about yourself, to boost your morale making you want more of their company.

[@princessbeeloved]

Narcissism in the ministry is a real big problem. We are going through this right now and we are trying to deal with the people involved in church from the narcissist himself, the body guards, the real victims, to elders, and other members. May the Lord work in our midst through troubled times.

[@onthewall4yah730]

I have just had 3 friends in a row, 2 I let live with me that we all narcissists and all believers. 2 of them wanted their own ministries and the last one who just moved out has begun her online ministry. Chaos and control and manipulation going on all around yet this was the time she picked to start her ministry. Let's just be honest here and say that this is the Jezebel spirit and deliverance is sorely needed. Even though they can talk about seeking deliverance, they will never ever follow through. In the end, they hang in to this spirit or it hangs on to them. They will Alway find blame in everyone else and never look at their own heart, their own spirit

[@dcollins3644]

I was under a church for 10 years And the pastor who I thought was a role model a spiritual father and somebody who cared. There were things I just wasn’t comfortable with or disagree even when I told him I was struggling with some things I always wonder why he didn’t show no empathy now I see why it all makes sense I have to listen to this message everything in this message describe him. It was hard leaving his church. But I did it I’m still healing.

[@ladybugblu60]

My dear brother/sister I left as well about 2 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made . Be encouraged!

[@DunkForbes]

so sorry bro

[@dcollins3644]

@@DunkForbes Thanks for getting back with me I sent you a friend request on Facebook. Yeah man it wasn’t easy I’m slowly recovering

[@noodlesplaylist891]

Me at the beginning: oh wow this is cool, my church growing up never allowed a platform like this where people could ask questions freely, raise things to leadership, have open dialogue without being rebuked and told that it was gossip or questioning Gods decisions, that it was wrong to ever question The person at the top who god “chose” to lead/teach regardless of what they did, and also thinking it was normal to have a pastor be praised like a celebrity.... Me halfway through: ohhhhhh.... that probably wasn’t normal

[@msims1081]

Went through the same!

[@faithhope7704]

Hahahaha well said

[@goodgracious6364]

Your views here are thoroughly fair and accurate! Thank you for being brave enough to shed light on these disturbing and disordered people who bring havoc to the ministry (usually behind closed doors) and generally do not get checked. They are often moved up the ministerial leadership ladder using their charm and charisma, while leaving a trail of unabashed abuses all around them!

[@santacruzskirts]

They get moved up by other narcissists who are ok with it.

[@rheayunlang2409]

This is so true not just in churches but also in organizations

[@Indigochild71]

This is an excellent podcast highlighting the toxic culture many of us have experienced in the Church with Pastors/Ministers and leaders.

[@alexishill3342]

This is so true. I don't attend church anymore for this reason.

[@sarahclifton-gould8001]

My brother is a narcissist, and a church leader. He has worked hard to discredit anyone, family and friends, who calls him out on his behaviour, he then launches smear campaigns on them. Sadly, I've watched other respected Church leaders fall for his 'charisma' and I am amazed that God doesn't warn them??

[@donnaparks1919]

Sound so familiar

[@jsf8145]

Yep. .....and the Narc usually seems to disguise the smear campaign during "prayer time" when the Narc openly airs out his target's dirty laundry (behind that person back) and then calling it "much needed prayer" because the Narc "cares deeply" about that person. Sadly, most people in the room appear to believe every word the Narc says about that person and believes it's because the Narc cares deeply. When in reality the Narc is trying to ostracize the person being prayed for to keep all other people inside the church to remain beholding to the Narc. The next time the subject of discussion being "prayed for" shows back up to church, he/she is treated like a diseased child that "just needs to be prayed for". Isolated and ostracized at ever angle with dirty looks. No self respecting person will continue to subject themselves to that kind of abuse.

[@msims1081]

I’ve seen people openly called a witch and escorted out of the church because they were disliked or not wanted there, or about to expose truth about the seedy behavior of leadership. Also once saw people who didn’t come to a service have to stand up and be openly “rebuked” for not being in church if they didn’t have a good reason. Crazy! Needless to say, I don’t go to that church anymore!

[@sarahclifton-gould8001]

@@msims1081 so sorry to hear this. It us a devastating thing for anyone to deal with. X

[@valeriewalkerwhite9525]

I left several churches over this..iv been in church since i was born...

[@AGS1000]

I walked away from 'the church' years ago, but never from Jesus Christ. I am just (this year) understanding how many times that I have been stung by narcissistic abuse. Understanding more of this subject, it has helped me put many things into perspective. Older and (and hopefully) wiser now, I feel like I am being called back to church. I am struggling to enter back into the atmosphere, as I still have trust issues. My internal narcissistic meter is still very sensitive, but I have to do what I am being called to do. Thank you for our message in this video, it is resonating with me. I needed this...

[@stanbarr9884]

Once you recognize you are dealing with a narcissist, you don’t bring them in line. Counseling does not work. They may placate the counselor especially if the councilor does not know how to deal with a narcissist, to meet the standard of attending counseling, and can mimic what they need to, to get back into good graces, but ultimately, THEY WILL NOT CHANGE! Once you know you are dealing with a narcissist, send them down the road.

[@missmysanity7093]

I agree

[@marciaheadley9933]

Happy I stumbled upon your channel; especially the topic of Narcissism in the church. It's a real issue in the church that the church refuses to acknowledge.

[@DunkForbes]

Thanks for stopping by. I'm hopeful that more and more people are starting to recognise it, although it does seem slow :(

[@MsGenXodus]

Churches are a perfect environment for the invasive species known as the "narcissist." They thrive among the submissive ranks of Christianity, especially. Frequently, the shepherd is actually a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[@musicjunkie77]

I'm struggling so much right now. I am just starting to realize how much narcissism and spiritual abuse has plagued my life. Every church I've been to and served at has even spiritually abusive in some way. It hurts.

[@DunkForbes]

So sorry

[@lienlael3196]

First of all, your accent is awesome, I just love It. I've notice one mayor problem among Christianity today. I accepted Christ almost 30 years ago. One main thing I was stroke in my heart was the agape among believers that translate in a life of service. It is after social media I noticed that evryone has their own little fame world, this affected me as well. I guess we all have that tendency due to our sinful fallen nature. I appreciate your help by sharing your knowledge in this matter. Thank you ❤

[@cindybuchanan2218]

Cut someone to shreds and demand a hug…. 😳 so many times! It’s so disorienting and I never could see the manipulation because I believed that the person cared.

[@shyhiemjames1742]

Narcissistic pastors and leaders also have a God like complex as well.. in their heads they are the Lord and they can dictate who’s qualified or not instead of allowing God to do that for that person.. they have an obsessive need to push on you that they’re the only ones who can ordain you and not God .. they often preach a works based gospel and they enjoy the praises of men rather than God.. they won’t preach to you that Jesus is all that you need because they want all the attention focused on them .. they’ll mock those who have a personal intimate relationship with Jesus .. they hate who they cannot dominate or manipulate.. they can be very legalistic and carnal .. they tend to equate themselves with God or put themselves in the place that God belongs in.. in their minds they are the Lord and they want you to worship them .. not Jesus .. usually they are just simply not born again and they do not possess the Holy Spirit whatsoever.. you will notice that you have to go through them to get to God or that they’re the intercessors of God and man which is complete blasphemy.. so God will abandon them to their foolish and twisted ways .. and the people who follow them who refuse to call them out or rebuke them that will be their judgement.. but there’s always a Godly remnant that will flee and get out of there !

[@wildergardendesign1102]

Thank you for this. I left a church and many years after met the pastor who apologise and then took it back denied even then there was written evidence. Like Boris Johnsson. They kill you with kind but deceitful words. Leave it to God and he will sort it out.

[@donnaparks1919]

If u have any mental limitation u automatic a target for abuse and to take advantage of. Many act like they want to help but really most want to try to get what ever they think they can

[@easternbrown]

Thank you, what you highlight here I've lived through and it's a real struggle to navigate a relationship with someone who behaves like this. So helpful to hear it explained so clearly. We really all need as a church to be able to recognize this and deal well and in love with people who are constantly causes of hurt and tension for others. Thanks Urban Ministries.

[@melishagoodin127]

Thank you so much for sharing this information may God bless you continually… Amen 🙏🏿

[@coleengardner8892]

I've listened to your video so glad your aware although after dealing with a physcopath and studying over 2 years I can say the msd 5 doesn't even begin to explain how dangerous they are, also therapy is a narcissist training ground, since very few therapist understand narcissism

[@DunkForbes]

Thanks Coleen. Do you think therapists are becoming more aware than before?

[@coleengardner8892]

@@DunkForbes I'm not sure I do follow Dr Ramani Durvasula and Carmen Bryant as well as some survivors group, I've given books to a couple church members to help them understand what thier dealing with, what I have realized is only we who have lived it truly understand,

[@catherinepositano8544]

Thankyou for this ....I feel quite sick as you've nailed my experience with 3 pastors...both pastors ran down the senior pastor to me YET stood with him against me....I'm a Senior Citizen on a Mental Health Disability Pension...I'll never walk into another church again..2 of those men were 20yrs my jnr and the other 13yrs....mmmmm..Men of God a?...🇦🇺......I don't have the Mental Stamina to take them on...too many lies...do these people actually go to heaven?...because if they do I dont want to go there...if I never see them again it'll be too soon!

[@beneiseoleinmheart5614]

God wants all to be saved. Pray for them from your distance. May God continue to protect, bless n keep you.

[@arcticfox2639]

Thank you! Such a needed topic and so much abuse!

[@DunkForbes]

Thank you

[@DunkForbes]

Agh I’m so sorry to hear that Sarah. Sadly this is all too common.

[@chamberscarl]

This is exceptionally helpful. It can be very comforting for those who have suffered under a narcissist (but also cause some to close up completely, because it's too close to home from their own experience of suffering at the hands of others). If (since) it is not unlikely that a number of church leaders are narcissists, and if (since) people in their church are likely to be victims too (and those who remain - not having been kicked out - are weaker and still victims), what is the role of other church leaders, from nearby churches (in their association/fellowship / denomination/gospel partnership / or whatever) to act? It is all very well diagnosing narcissism, but if the pastor themselves won't see it and act, if the members of the church are not able to, then who will stand up for the sufferers? If not church leaders (whose approval that pastor will crave, at least in part) then who else? There may be a role for the state (eg Charity Commission) but the threshold for narcissistic abuse of power may be much harder to define than is obvious to the Charity Commission which wants clear cut and absolutely objective criteria. Besides, why should the church delegate its conscience and accountability to the state? (conscience = is this wrong?, accountability = needing to act for the sake of the sheep who are victims).

[@furusaogoge]

Oh my goodness! The projector analogy! That's genius!!!!

[@DunkForbes]

thanks

[@janne2olof301]

Excellent presentation and discussion of a difficult subject. I think that one aspect of the problem is that some parts of "the Church" (if there is such a thing) believes that church leadership is authoritarian, just like the God of their minds, and the authoritarian leadership attracts Narcissistic characters who get to do things "God´s way." The choice basically becomes accepting God´s way (meaning the Narc´s way) of doing ministry - or the highway. The office of pastor was not a power grab , just the opposite. Many verses in the Gospels and the Apostle Peter 's Epistles touch on and oppose the abuses inherent in authoritarianism. And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye not so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. Lk 22:25-26 KJV

[@DunkForbes]

Yes. And I’m sorry if you’ve learned that out of pain flip experience

[@theyjustwantyourmoney4539]

A narcissist bulldozes through everything in their path

[@Rain9Quinn]

@around 45 Min, if the org has a narcissistic leader, the org becomes filled with narcissists, becomes a narcissistic org....👍🏻👍🏻

[@Rain9Quinn]

In Buddhist groups too! Any org with hierarchy or leaders, b/c people fall pray to poisons if power & authority. Needs to be faced, acknowledged, and fought against within the individual...

[@Rain9Quinn]

@P Ivan Sanchez I want to say my feeling is while the teachings, philosophy, personal practice of religion can be very valuable, it is toxic people and organizational structures that can destroy the religion. I feel my Buudhist philisophy is great, but the deeply hierarchic organization w/history of narcissistic leaders has been so destructive to my life, i sometimes regret ever being involved! But it was a bit hetter way nadk then & i was able to grow & transform into a better person from my practice. Even as i was being abused and tortured by the narcissistic views. I stay away now, for years now. But i feel a lack of religion/philosophy/spirituality has contributed to the meanness and shallowness of our culture in the USA at least. I think people need what these can provide. Damn natcissistic peiple should go away tho🤨😁😂❤️🙏🏻

[@Rain9Quinn]

@P Ivan Sanchez oh u want examples? Well, no one in any position is held accountable for meanness, threatening juniors, favoring people based on race, immigrant status, or just friendship, and anyone who questions it is gaslighted. Meanwhile people with actual qualifications, experience, knowledge of the teachings, direct training from top leaders, etc., can be denied any place or roll in the communities. Because of the nepotism? Or because of jealous/feeling threatened by a capable person? Then there is widespread gossip, longterm (decades!) grudgeholding, gossiping about things from decades back, never finding out 1. If at all true and 2. The victim’s perspective. A favorite is, “No one else has a problem with this” and liars or abusers just plain lie and deny. They are backed up by their leader-friends. Of the leaders deny reality, inconvenient parts of the teachings, or just lie that “this is no longer the way anymore,” (when the national & international HQ has never made such a change...). When studying together or presenting a preparation about a published lecture, skipping any parts either they dont understand or would paint their own behavior in a bad light. Powergrabbing and seeing leadership roles like work roles, a new one being a promotion! Opposite of the teaching that leaders are servants of the members and appointed to a place they are t ready to succeed at but have shown themselves ready and able to grow into a role. On & on...😞😌

[@elizaconstantino4336]

A narcissist leader in the church are those who get all the ministry and trying to manipulate the church based on what they want. They wanted to rebuke others but they wanted to be rebuked. Oh so righteous in so many ways.

[@kevinjohnson7418]

Thank you. All of us aren’t Narcissist Personality Disordered. That’s different completely than having traits of selfishness or narcissist tendencies. One is preplanning and enjoying harming others. People that dominate conversations can be passionate and curious people that dive deep , but don’t exxagerate or lie about it. And the fact that they are insecure is starting to be debunked. Read “ healing from hidden abuse “

[@susandumbill8805]

Been a Christian for some time, and was involved with several churches in different parts of the UK. I have some very serious concerns, and have struggled greatly from having been touched inappropriately by two senior church leaders (what I'd call 'low level' - not severely sexually molested, or worse). Suffered much from spiritual and psychological abuse also, by several leaders, and others in several churches. It's all finally come to the surface now, and I'm getting help, and talking about it now. However my story is by no means unique. There must be so very many wounded sheep wandering around the world, deliberately badly treated, and completely alone. I find it very disturbing that if you even speak to these people about what they've done, they don't want to listen; some turn against you, then try to turn others against you. Others don't even want you to SHOW you are hurt, or suffering. Too many people just want you to go/stay quiet. But you really do need to talk, so if you can only get help outside the Church, then that is better than being so extremely anxious, depressed and suicidal. 🚩 I sincerely believe there are many narcissists behind the pulpit. I also believe too many have Psychopathic traits: lying, gaslighting, deliberately hurting people, then not caring at all about how badly it affects them (no remorse), and a lack of empathy. This is extremely dangerous, so we all must keep asking the Lord Jesus Christ for more wisdom, discernment and guidance. As I do this, and am currently taking time out of church (because of how it has been seriously affecting my mental and physical health, debilitating me, making me unable to function normally) it's a necessity at the moment. But I also believe we can ask Jesus to lead us to the right people - safe, kind, genuinely caring people, including genuine spiritual shepherds (pastors). There may not be very many at the moment, but they ARE out there. So please take heart, and remember: Psalm 10 verse 14, and Psalm 34 verses 17 & 18. And that maybe God is doing a new thing, something which will really help the myriads of abused people, Christian and not. God bless you all 🙏 ❤.

[@tommywitte9916]

Alot of the TBN churches are narsisistic.I stopped watching them years ago.

[@jimoyler1780]

I like the channel. My love language is words of affirmation. My goodness!

[@davidc4233]

The church opened this up on them. There are to be a Apostle over churches with elders in each church who would speak to the church in turns while the others judged, the apostle would travel and keep check of these churches. Today we have got rid of the apostles and instead of elders strong in the word we set up a 'pastor' to run the entire show and church, everyone seeking his own gain and glory. The church is a mess from methodist to pentecostal and been to both. The worse narcissist I ever met was my pentecostal pastor, just fell in love with himself and his gifts and desired and wanted to be worshipped, seeing he was better than all others. I even warned him and told a vision of him but he did not heed. The church was destroyed and destroyed by his own hand. decades later I met him and he is just a shell of who he was, and still tried playing his narcissist games on me. This time they didn't work, he never realized what all the Spirit had been teaching and showing me. I was a victim once, but now God has made be wiser and I praise Him !

[@lisaevans8113]

They say it's God's will, but it is really there will for your life

[@Rain9Quinn]

Thank you so much for this video. Applies to other religious groups just as well. Sad... Important video youve shared 🙏🏻🙏🏻 os kowtow means being obsequious toward or like, bowing to them for their superiority..

[@2008LadyLaura]

We all have free choice including the ones that turn a blind eye or have been deceived! The way to identify a narcissist is how they treat their closest ones behind closed doors. If he demonstrates an inflated need for social importance and admiration let that speak for itself. Put it out there like that short n sweet and they will see it for themselves. The compliant sheep have no back bone and see what they want to see because of the narcissist's insincere/self gratifying works or acts if service. Tell the elders that the bible says go to the person directly to address this issue if that doesn't work bring 2 witnesses if that doesn't work tell the church. The church needs to hold these people accountable not shun them but give them the oppurtunity to repent and humble themselves. If they don't do this that LIABILTY lies on them. Everything done in the dark will come to light. The manipulative narcissist will play the victim, act like he is only human when caught in a mistake, blame everyone else, not take responsibility. Only the humble will see God's face. The goal is for us to forgive and the narcissist to learn so he changes but someone needs to hold them accountable. We need a prodical son to learn his lesson not stay home n be enabled while carrying out bad examples of behavior.

[@billieduff8118]

That are plenty in the church. They will. Destroy the good n bad takes over. That church will cease to be!!! God will destroy that person for good!!!!!!!

[@christopherd6399]

Pastoral ministry is the perfect stage for a narcissist, plus they got GOD on their side! You better watch out. Seriously, be careful where you choose to go, especially if you have children who may establish close friends there.

[@Blinkgirlsareperfect]

My mom is a narcissist ( Fake Christian )and if I didn’t meet “real” Christians I would be an atheist if she was the only role model I had.

[@DunkForbes]

So sorry to hear that

[@beneiseoleinmheart5614]

Something really harsh to speak of your mother. It sounds like you're a victim.

[@Blinkgirlsareperfect]

@@beneiseoleinmheart5614 You know what’s harsh? A narcissist mother driving her daughter to suicide. Unless you know what others go through please do t use the word harsh if you don’t know the situation. Thanks Sounds like your a narcissist.

[@pamelabassmarsh5262]

I had one. And yes! I exposed him...boy was he surprised...holy nottttt! Half of them like that when people suck up to them...✔

[@londonlavish8345]

Very Good teaching. Glad I stumbled across

[@lienlael3196]

I seriously thinkJohn MacArthur church got contaminated... Goodness! The GTY page on KZbin is unable to write comments. I heard him say in a sermon that God's mercy is limited, and his church was very healthy doctrinally speaking" As far as Scripture goes in Lamentations 2:24 God's mercies are new every morning and by the Lord's mercies we are not destroy.

[@KS-dx5ln]

When the first sentence if who they are as a church states "We don't take sides in political arguments." That is a Narcissist statement. People quit the church due to the US political issues. Number 1 - that was his personal problems with others. Number 2 - I've heard numerous sermons regarding politics. Number 3 - Politics should never even been talked about in church. Number 4 - He had a personal problem because people quit the church. That should be between himself and the Lord.

[@ItsWorkingTogetherForMyGood]

What about the wives of narcissistic pastor husbands? It is so destructive and heartbreaking

[@gekhonggoh7280]

You are right. In church we can't lie. Narsissist Pastor that i knew was abused in his past. It's good to be in life group. Y? One of us was this Narsissist Pastor imme -diate neighbour. I pointed it to him & mention her neighbor's name. He recognizes her & was told to leave the ch. We all left 678 in number. All left at one go. God will flush out such leaders. I keep trusting, l keep praying & l cannot be burn because l am covered by His blood. I ONLY trust in the Lord.

[@hendriknieuwenhuizen4397]

How do you pray for a Christian who has narcissist traits?

[@escherichanja8522]

Narcissists don´t take any responsibility for their actions or their nature so others have the responsibility for the harmony between everybody. That´s nothing healthy at all, but that doesn´t matter for them as long as they can play the "normal" one even when they had therapy.

[@dominiqueryles2922]

I'm in recovery ministry and I as the worship leader have run into this so often. I am exhausted sometimes because I Feel beat up sometimes. I've dealt with it for years but I feel so guilty and wonder what I'm doing to attract these personalities or if I just need better tools to deal with it and better boundaries

[@DunkForbes]

So sorry to hear this. It might be helpful to ask a counsellor experienced with narcissism to help you answer those questions.

[@JesusIsLife298]

I wonder the same thing about myself. I have been in recovery from narc abuse my whole life and God just found me a church where the pastor is a narc. We briefly were interested in each other until I unmasked him. Or God unmasked him rather. I keep asking God why these magnetic relationships keep happening. Lots of lessons the Lord keeps teaching me though

[@godisnotmocked1345]

Jesus warned us "The hireling careth not for the sheep" (John 10:13, KJV). He didn't say only some hirelings. It's all of them. Read Pagan Christianity: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices by Frank Viola and George Barna. The whole system is pagan, aka satanic.

[@MessiahsLove]

Narcissists see the role of pastor as a leadership role and many take the preeminence in the assembly which is condemned in scripture. The role of Pastor is like any other role in the body of Messiah and is a place of service. All the ones I have seen are carnally minded rather than spiritually minded. The divide the flock many times and scatter them.

[@donnaparks1919]

I was forbidden to take a situation to the elders to keep quiet was caused of gossip yet they harassed and bullied stalked me in store the abuser is my sister deacons wife pastor's right hand man I was discouraged from following the bible all in same neighborhood what can I do? Much fear used scripture touch not mine anointed I'm to close to the judgment of GOD

[@DunkForbes]

so sorry to hear that. I really hope you can find safe people to be around, who you can tell your story to, and get support.

[@donnaparks1919]

@@DunkForbes I think I gave up on that.

[@DunkForbes]

@@donnaparks1919 so sorry to hear that Donna. I really feel for you and your situation.

[@ladybugblu60]

Hey I went through some similar things. They were always spying and watching me, but thank God he delivered mne out of that. When you know who you are in Christ they can't touch you. Be encouraged my sister.

[@donnaparks1919]

@@ladybugblu60 thank u GOD BLESS U

[@donnaparks1919]

It's me who criticises me the most sis agreed and added more and compounded what I already feel bout myself help me hate more what I already hate bout myself

[@annemaster5254]

I don’t think so my dear....Satan’s putting those thoughts in u r mind, that’s why Jesus says cast down imaginations. U might want to look up David Middleton if u want to understand scripture, best teacher I know...verbs r soooo important! Blessings!

[@donnaparks1919]

Sorry I'm dyslexic I don't communicate well sis spread many rumors bout me to her wich I quit going to yet the continue to harass me for going no contact with sis I thought it was rumors how she killed my mom but since I moved with her to a different state I've witnessed her caricature. And had the same fate planed for me but GOD alone has my back.

[@marygeorge275]

They are very very good at bending rules, and marking people to accept it in a deplomatic way... By saying Jesus said no one is perfect on this earth... 🤔

[@marygeorge275]

They even take revenge, by giving you information of people who had not receive d what they asked God in prayer s, but got more people like them to help them... and just ignore your struggles....!!!!!!!!!! 🙈

[@raymondgarafano8604]

When 1 finds themself always ?ing themself, their sub-conscience knows there is something going on.

[@reginathornton7433]

Was charged at by an assistant pastor's wife for disagreeing with her & for not doing a bad thing.

[@marisolvelez9076]

There a women in my job that claims she is a minister and is so fake and her opinion is the only one that counts... I stay away from her im not letting anyone abuse me ....

[@annettadewitt121]

A year ago I did a live called narcissism in the pews on Facebook I can’t find it

[@donnaparks1919]

? What would u think if every year u miss a big event once a year in ur city the farmers market in arkansas berryville square no matter who i ask how i search or watch for it sis maybe there there church is out there. Every year I miss it I can't help but think they blocking me from going they I do find stuff out one way or another It's to bad there's 0 narcissist abuse group out there we really need it so bad

[@saturdayschild8535]

I’ve never been in a church situation where this behavior wasn’t the norm.

[@DunkForbes]

So sorry to hear that

[@saturdayschild8535]

@@DunkForbes I’m grateful to see messages like this getting out now. I didn’t have a name for it, but I knew something was off. God looks out for us in ways we may never know.

[@hendriknieuwenhuizen4397]

All new christians need to be delivered(saved) from multiple demonic addictions, attitudes and lusts. Many need assistance because of their lack of knowledge of their authority, their dominion in Jesus Christ.

[@annemaster5254]

I think many know the narc but don’t call them out bc they weak.

[@lindagithaiga1974]

The narc usually has flying monkeys supporting them and others who are not aware of narcissism (or even self aware) so you may find yourself standing Alone and looking like an idiot in the process.Remember they have the ability to attract followers.so many may choose to walk away mind your biz for your own sanity's sake

[@donnaparks1919]

Also happens in US

[@Rain9Quinn]

Kowtow -rhymes with cow 🙂

[@DunkForbes]

Thanks

[@clancykeegan748]

Be careful of the wolves out there! I've decided not to go to church again after a narcissist who is an ex now went into ministry.

[@DunkForbes]

I’m sorry to hear that. I understand where you’re coming from.

[@shirleyakpelu1831]

True.

[@craigfryer7167]

Let us pray for the Narcissistic traits people have. It's an evil spirit that needs to be CAST OUT! Have the confidence in Christ to take authority through Christ to set these people free. It's not God's will.

[@marygeorge275]

Some leaders play a memory loss game making us believe that we (people) never ever brought these issues to their notice or told to them.... This is called the hight of ignorance and a falso claims... And blaming people for approach to these leaders.... But Jesus never did so... He paid 100% attention to what people came up with and did only God told Him to do.... He was always available to attend them... Leaders prepare themselves only to preach... But not to practice what they preach...

[@mariamkinen8036]

...is common.

[@jeanjoseph7905]

Where does a narc goes when he dies? because they cannot change

[@donnaparks1919]

They choose to get pleasure of doing harm so they make the choice who to follow no one make it for them

[@annemaster5254]

All those that r unrighteous go to hell, even those still living in the flesh and walking in sin.

[@mikep3502]

I’m dealing with one of these people now

[@DunkForbes]

V sorry to hear they

[@annemaster5254]

If u research sam wasn’t actually diagnosed.

[@IdaSputum]

Very accurate

[@cynthiajones7608]

Can everyone please stop talking as if this only applies to those that are married, and only men. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! 🧐🙏

[@paulkishfy8528]

I knew a female Christian counselor who is 1

[@Jenoveryonder]

All of ministry is borrowed from someone else.

[@hendriknieuwenhuizen4397]

Narcissism is the residue attitude from the old man life of the carnal man before the rebirth of a believer. Every Christian has to contend against the carnal mind which is enmity against God. God is not angry of against the carnal Christian but the worldly thinking is contrary to the new creature love nature of Jesus. All Christians need to repent and be delivered from demonic thinking. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5.

[@annemaster5254]

Look up David Middleton if “we” r carnal “we” r against God.

[@AnnieGrace777]

Yes. Extremely painful. Narcissists control, manipulate, lie, are cruel, blame EVERYONE ELSE, they never take responsibility....always the others who have problems. The Lord sees, knows and hears ALL things. In Jesus presence is the only church I ever want to be in again.

[@margaretvaughan1381]

I've witnessed all you've said. 🙏🤔😊 Horrible!

[@ramonaurueta6334]

Hear conversations by phone and use what your say. False prophets on Christian channel are no different than liberals. God dont get involved with politics. Joyce meyers etc.saying exactly what you say by phone. 1John3:10

[@rheayunlang2409]

ahahahahaha!!! Never mention or else you get sued

[@peterdowson9156]

the lord is the devil and the eyes are the windows to the soul u wear glasses