Bitcoin Self-Custody and Cold Storage: The Risks and Benefits of Hard Wallet Devices feat. NVK

-In this episode we discuss:
-Why should you self-custody your Bitcoin and how?
-How to choose between cold storage wallets
-What happened with Ledger this month?
-Can someone extract a seed phrase from my cold storage device?
-Cold storage vs trusting exchanges
The history of cold storage wallets
-NVK/Coldcard Wallet origin stories
NVK is a co-founder of Coinkite, a builder of Bitcoin security hardware and other devices, including OpenDime, the Coldcard Wallet, and the BlockClock. The Brazilian-born Canadian previously was co-founder of Ripe Apps, the VP of Product at Method:CRM, and Chief Product Officer at Quandl.
🐦 Follow NVK on Twitter / nvk
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🗒️ IN THIS EPISODE:
0:00 Intro, Swan Bitcoin promo
1:33 What is a cold storage wallet? What is self custody?
4:32 Defense against debasement
5:50 How does cold storage and self custody work
6:53 What is a seed phrase?
8:28 Picking 12 to 24 words
10:41 How are words generated
11:33 How does wallet-maker not have access to seed phrase?
12:48 Seed phrase security
14:00 Bitcoin 2024, Fold debit card promos
14:56 Public key vs. private key
16:17 MultiSig
18:07 Why create COLDCARD?
19:28 Bitcoin Maxis love security
20:38 Nothing is infallible
23:20 Ledger concerns
25:41 Air gap, points of failure
28:25 Growing up in Brazil
30:58 CrowdHealth, iTrustCapital promos
32:58 Discovering the White Paper
34:25 Early days
35:42 First cold storage wallet
36:56 How do exchanges hold Bitcoin?
39:21 Does cold storage go obsolete?
40:37 Next best thing to cold storage?
42:42 Should I store my Bitcoin all in one place?
46:34 Which cold storage wallet should I use?
48:09 "If you don't want to take the responsibility, don't buy Bitcoin."
49:21 "It's very early."
50:23 Why does NVK live in Canada?
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NVK nvk.org/
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Producer: Aron Bender / aron-bender
DISCLAIMER This show is for entertainment purposes only and does not give financial advice. Before making any decisions consult a professional. #bitcoin #cryptocurrency #money

[@samthasham]

Great info. A guest I did not know and the info about hardware wallet security was very interesting. Thanks Nat!

[@marinatinseattle]

One of your best interviews to date.

[@myaiumba]

We love you brother. Thank you for being on the mission. It has already changed my life and reprogrammed my operating system for the better. My eyes are now open and the way I see things are different. Mostly anger or sadness because I see things that I didn’t before. More people get to know you for your humanity and respect through your humbleness. Thank you for all your work.

[@angief2805]

Love this conversation! thank so much Natalie. It would be very useful for us that you both, have a second conversation on how is better to save your bitcoin (differents devices, multisig, etc), the part at the end of the conversation that you boarded on the surface. We all have to be permanently aware of software wallet updates (the self-educating) in order to be peaceful and secure about our savings. Muchas muchas gracias!!!

[@thorarthur66ddz]

I love my Coldcard

[@PatrickN.]

Loved this one Natalie.

[@gdaybitcoin]

Thanks Natalie another great Pod

[@kenallensworth5408]

Thanks!

[@kaneda4]

very interesting itw, thanks guys

[@Challender]

Thank you, Natalie! Swan sign up just now.

[@thecryptobureau6738]

Thanks Nat great guest. I will be passing the educational content onto my clients:) Always great watching you interview the top echelon in the space.

[@jeremiahlim2925]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIW4pJdjq8-Wn7M&

[@Winifred_Wood]

Same thing here, started these last two months. I trade with Ms Antonia, I will say she is the best broker I have ever met and she is FINRA regulated I have certainly made a fair amount with

[@goodnessuche1430]

NVK is a great teacher

[@tomstibbs2977]

You're a sweetheart....great interview

[@mc-kz8zn]

This was a great interview, thank you Natalie! Very insightful, down to earth, easy to understand - it's a complicated topic, so thank you for this content and breaking it down for us.

[@kimgaugemusic]

I like this guy's philosophy on Bitcoin

[@gaeldesmontagnesnoires1711]

I am leaving Canada because Binance and Nexo are forced to leave this jurisdiction.. I Love/ed Canada, trudeau ruined it. My financial sovereignty/freedom matters more than my Love for Canada.

[@cuttheknot4781]

NVK seems like a true sweetheart of a guy. I trust him at face value (with this opinion I am giving).

[@Vadeemers]

Natalie "that is a bit above my head". Guest "yeah". hehe

[@southbayproducts5371]

Awesome I am learning everyday as of 2017 as a 60 year old BTC is hope see you in October Thank you great work

[@MrThemurillos]

Shalom Amen you guys thanks

[@Ariel-rf7yx]

nice lake

[@elyrod808]

Great video thanks. Question,: I developed a habit to the LIVE mobile interface where I could view my bitcoin. Is there any mobile interface I can use with Sparrow to see my BTC on mobile? Thanks!

[@tomausman8645]

Awesome Interview. Answered some questions for me. Going to share this. Thanks

[@TvAMRR]

❤❤❤❤ I love Natalie and love the interview!!😍😊😁! Really very valuable interview.

[@swamivivekananda-cyclonicm8781]

Which wallet big players use to store their assets ?

[@eggshi]

ColdCard and their own node. (Electrum)

[@lupic3157]

Congrats Natalie. Great talk, thanks!

[@pamelacogginsrobles3606]

To NVK, some "Grandmas" are explaining self custody to their children and grandchildren...lol😅

[@Steve.191]

Great show thanks 👍

[@TeshTube]

NVK is a legend! Natalie is the best podcast interviewer hands down! Thanks so much for doing this salient interview which is very relevant right now!

[@jerrycrosby7887]

Great job Natalie 🙏

[@NoraTyler8969]

I am so fortunate that I made productive decisions about my finances that changed my life forever. I am a single mum living in Melbourne Australia who bought my second home in September and is hoping to retire next year at 50 if things continue to go smoothly for me

[@dumalewikina1362]

Congratulations beautiful lady. You’re really doing well for yourself, I’m 45 and my financiaI Iife is in a mess. Any great tips would really go a long way in shaping my life. I want to buy my own house, that’s really a big flex........

[@NoraTyler8969]

I apologize for late reply sweetie, I used the FIRE movement to put my finances in order. Then Invested in stocks, crytocurenwcies and reel estate though the assistance of an Investment Pro who helped me make it this big😇

[@dumalewikina1362]

Thanks for your kind response, I would love to connect with youR financiaI consuItant

[@NoraTyler8969]

[@MiriamAhmed08]

*Amazing seeing others who trade with MRS. EVELYN GERALD started my investment wit $164,410, a week later, we had grown to $784,080. This lady!! absolute genius.....*

[@billybitcoin843]

Be your own bank ❤

[@Jura21]

Natalie how do you personally self custody your Bitcoin? Hardware wallet? Which exactly?

[@nataliebrunell]

I'm shifting to cold card and will shoot a how-to that I will post in the coming weeks! Stay tuned!

[@johnqlunchbucket]

​​@@nataliebrunell Seed phrase is typwritter technology. Tangem wallet out of Switzerland is the future. No hardware device is needed, no seed phrase, no cables, or charging required and its so secure that I could hand you my private keys and you can't do anything with them, it is so easy to use that a cave man could use it and no firmware updates ever.

[@andrub23]

Self custody your Bitcoin! Seed Stacks!

[@fixthemoneyfixtheworld9183]

Great conversation. Time to get my 4th HWW.

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

Wait - they can access your bitcoin just by having posession of your cold wallet? Did I hear that correctly?

[@PatrickN.]

The cold card mark 4 has never been hacked. Others have, but that being said,they first have to steal your device and then have to be tech savvy enough to break in. Very few people are. I'd say 1 in a million. So if you keep your damn mouth shut and don't brag that you have a shitload of bitcoin then you should be just fine. Hence the saying.. "Stay Humble and Stack sats"

[@Adidasler593]

I'm happy to see your subscriber base grow. You deserve it and more. I've been with you since your subscribers were under 1k.

[@markaustin9030]

If you air gap your transaction and 24 words, can someone who got malware onto your computer gain access to your 24 words?

[@Steve-yn6wq]

It seems there is a remote possibility of this; less likely if open source software and hardware is involved; less likely if the hardware makes use of the Anti Clepto Protocol. The security gap is connected to potential misuse of the small nonce datafield in the hardware. A small loophole, but it's there - at least as I understand the description of this problem.

[@dingfeldersmurfalot4560]

Nice interview. How about a tutorial walking through the set-up and use?

[@PatrickN.]

Goto btc sessions channel. That's about all he does. So many tutorials on the cold card from him.

[@nashgate1336]

Great interview Natalie. People need to understand keeping your Bitcoin on exchanges is a dangerous prospect.

[@marymyers9211]

Very informative and he's a doll. I'm a grandma so its okay for me to say it😊

[@kbkesq]

What if there’s an earthquake or flood or fire?

[@marvinflyer3043]

Great interview Natalie but I have a question.. your interviewee says to buy directly from the manufacturer but how do you know you can trust the manufacturer? If 13:56 you ever have an issue with the device you have to give them some information.

[@bitcoinpoemspro1406]

I want a large screen so I can see where I am in navigation. So I started with another brand. But I will get the new cold card.

[@v3teran75]

DCent Wallet

[@NiagaraBTC]

Excellent discussion. I wish I needed another hardware wallet so I could buy a ColdCard Q1

[@siferd18]

Great interview and breakdown 👌. Keep it up Natalie!

[@fromterra9136]

Bitcoin , cold storage , sleep tight.

[@TravisHeadleyMD]

I need a list of the $13 items so I can extract the seeds from my son’s Trezor.

[@andrepangemanan6542]

If seeds generated randomy, Is it possible that 2 different people generate same seeds? For example, today I generated a seeds and put some bitcoin in it. Then 10 years later (year 2033) other people generate the seeds that I have generated today (year 2023) -> is it possible? If so, how can I prevent it from happening?

[@intesoft-inc]

The probability would be like two people picking the exact same atom from the entire universe. I was hoping I'd get lucky and get Satoshi's when I generated mine. Didn't happen (sad face). Strength in (large) numbers.

[@andrepangemanan6542]

@@intesoft-inc okay I see... Then is it possible for someone to constantly generating seeds until they got wallet that have some bitcoin in it?

[@intesoft-inc]

This may help with how infinitesimally small the chance is. It's not specifically the scenario, but closely related and helps put things into perspective. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWqteKB3asSopLs

[@PatrickN.]

It would never happen in a million years. There's a lot of atoms in our universe. 😁

[@andrepangemanan6542]

@@intesoft-inc Okay, thanks for your explanation

[@tomausman8645]

you didn't leave us a link? Canada is awesome. Move to Alberta

[@googlesmostwantedfrog147]

I wonder what percentage of Swan Bitcoin clients self custody? And compare that to the major exchanges

[@dingfeldersmurfalot4560]

I bet Swan has a much higher percentage who self-custody. A lot of people come to shipcoins first, on the massive hype, and arrive at bitcoin later when they learn a bit more and get more serious. So I'm betting the percentage of total newbies is much smaller.

[@indysitebroker]

I really don’t think he answered your questions about the use ability to the uninitiated such as your grandmother.

[@1rjona]

I didnt want to replace my Ledger so i learned to create multi sig wallets and used my Ledger as one of my keys

[@viralsheddingzombie5324]

So let's say you have a hardware wallet and a catastrophic event causes the software to become corrupted beyond repair. You have the seed phrase. Can you recover your coins, or is it gone forever?

[@marinatinseattle]

yes. you can recover using the seed phrase to a different wallet

[@didactica9326]

Satoshi

[@love4gunz]

Natalie you're so beautiful 😊

[@jasont.5851]

Hopefully there will be a part two on this conversation

[@TheGj2323]

I thought they are making it easy but came out more confused 😅😅

[@Awwyeah281]

What is your view on the $80 billion of tether fraud? Also how tether prints tethers out of thin air to buy bitcoin and put it in reserves, thus, manipulating the price of bitcoin to whatever tether execs want? Also how tether has less than 1000 customers, many of them being same bankman fried, CZ etc?

[@JB026]

Wtf, trezor can be hacked within 13 minutes? Thats insane.

[@PatrickN.]

Don't use it. Use cold card Mark iv

[@gloriamariadc7757]

I’m sorry, but it’s super weird for someone like Natalie (& so so so many) who’s such a big proponent of BTC but not oddly not big on sharing how u store ur btc. What’s th pt in learning abt BTC if u don’t responsibly store it!!! This is a big drawdown to its adoption. I call BS on th BTC influencers who keep saying do ur homework but don’t share how they themselves store their BTC

[@PatrickN.]

It's for their own security! They are public figures and if they talk about how THEY do it, then it makes them vulnerable to someone stealing their bitcoin. Think about it.

[@didactica9326]

None of your business. Learn how to take care of your own business not Natalie's

[@MatthewRobinson3]

When it comes to the world of investment, most people like me don't know where to start from. I really need guidance

[@user-fe9nv9lw9f]

You actually need an expert trader assign by a registered brokerage company to help you out. I currently trade with Mrs Nancy Williams Laplace. I think she's the best when it comes to investment.

[@MatthewRobinson3]

​@@user-fe9nv9lw9f Where can I contact Mrs Nancy Williams please?

[@user-fe9nv9lw9f]

She's available on Telegram

[@user-fe9nv9lw9f]

@Nancy18 👆THAT'S HER USERNAME

[@Jamiewhite663]

Honestly! Nancy Williams is the key to robust profits. I'm currently on my fourth trade. Started off with a low and now my wallet unbelievable!

[@kbkesq]

So a poem is a bad idea?

[@lamh5265]

Yup....remember MAINFRAME COMPUTER.....humans were called "computers" in the 50's because they were human calculators. Bitcoin is early. But don't be too late.

[@flyinghotwing]

youre beautiful natalie, in more ways than one, of course

[@dereksnyders8094]

You're never going to get mass adoption until you get real upgrades in custody...this is ridiculous 😢

[@spaghettibit]

What are you implying by “upgrades in custody”?

[@spaghettibit]

Nobody is going to take responsibility on behalf of people. I feel like you’re asking HW manufacturers to become banks 2.0

[@Steve-yn6wq]

@@spaghettibit So sad, even banks holding bitcoin for customers in cold storage (outside the USA) point to the small print - which talks about their custodian and that a zillion things might happen affecting your bitcoin negatively while the bank will not take any responsibility. So yes, the custody issue remains ridiculously complex, especially when considering long storage of substantial amounts, less tech savvy people and inheritance transfer/access.

[@v3teran75]

Buy XRP before its too late

[@leslieguinn6157]

Natalie, in my opinion. The Trezor Model T is the most secure commercial HW available. I don't have any conflicts of interest with Trezor. Other than intimate knowledge of using one. I'm a Bitcoin Maxie, and I understand that some Maxies don't like the shit coins support in Trezor. I get that. I just want the most secure HW I can get. I don't trust secure elements in any device. It's false security. They are closed source, and that's an absolute no no for serious security. My Trezor seed phrase can't be hacked by anyone. I don't store my seed phrase in my HW. After I create a wallet I back it up. Verify my backup. Then wipe the device. So there's nothing in it to hack lol. I can do that hundreds of times. Additionally, I use a high entropy passphrase\password that is backed up and stored separately from my seed phrase backup. So even if I didn't wipe the device, and a hacker was able to steal my device. They still couldn't use the seed words without my passphrase\password. Nor could they brute force my passphrase\password. The entropy is too high. It would take longer than the age of the universe. So as you can see. The Trezor Model T is orders of magnitude more powerful than other HW's, and I haven't even mentioned Shamir secret sharing. Or Super Shamir, my favorite. Trust me Natalie. Embrace the power of the dark side lol..🧡🤗

[@user-fx6vk3pp5o]

don't trust swan to DCA for you. missed my last two buys over some upgrade that does NOTHING for me.

[@_LAND_OF_THE_FREE_]

Wow, what a beautiful girl 🤤