Railway Museum Curator Takes on the Lancashire and Yorkshire School of Signalling | Off the Rails

[@witzendoz]

In 1969 in Western Australia as a youngster, at my local station the signal box was on the platform. After school the signalman would let me in to watch. We had semaphore signals and the bell codes were the same as UK. One day we got the 9 bell no rear lamp from the previous box. In an instant the signalman set the signals to stop the train in the station ( it was an express) in this case the lamp had dislodged so the train was complete. Never forgot this little event.

[@Spookieham]

That is without a doubt the best example I have ever seen on the signal box process. Thank you very much to everyone involved.

[@turbine6202]

Fascinating. So much to learn here. This will have been the model my grandfather learned on in the 1920s.

[@chrispomphrett4283]

And mine in the 30s

[@chrisk3796]

Well that's stressful just to watch! I can't even imagine how fast every action must be taken if there's an non stop express running at full mainline speed

[@connormclernon26]

It’s a very complex operation that is sadly ever so easy to mess up, with catastrophic consequences. See Quintinshill.

[@kristoffermangila]

That's the reason Centralized Traffic Control (CTC) and now Positive Train Control (PTC) are important.

[@BrokenIET]

watch the videos uploaded by Exeter West Signalbox

[@chrislambert-shiels5291]

​@@kristoffermangila Different systems are used in UK.

[@k.1975]

Phil Graham is a true gentleman. Was my manager for many years. Loved my 2 yarly rules exams with him that lasted all day

[@MsMariGaming]

As a signal nut, this type of stuff is right up my alley. Id be entertained for hours

[@davidarf]

Brilliant, thankyou Anthony. I have looked at this training model in the museum on many occasions, but it is great to see it demonstrated

[@adrianroberts6983]

Excellent film. Wonderful to see that the L&Y layout is alive and well and in such safe hands. I had the great joy of visiting, and operating, it with my school railway society in the 1970s in it's original home at Manchester Victoria station. We also visited the full size boxes at Victoria to see the real thing in action. A wonderful day out, and a marvellous privilege.

[@Rugbyman269]

Anthony is so excited he can't help himself from interrupting 😊😊 , wouldn't we all be

[@MichaelTempleton-op7sm]

Phil took me for my Block class in the early 80,s when he was at Middlesbrough Tees manager always enthuaistic about job good to see him again

[@sirmatsdubois2509]

No wonder the Signalman in Thomas and friends are always asleep. They have so much to do that they barely have the time. Still, it is nice to see how people were trained back in the day. and this is actually quite frankly a realistic setup. although just a great model layout to play with your friends.

[@The_Smith]

Has always struck me how much a railway is like a computer with the train being the information. This video on the signals just reinforced that notion.

[@tanyajackson3833]

The analogy is enhanced by the recognition that signals/points are essentially bivalent switching.

[@richarddavies6609]

Misleading. Telephones were used in sjgnalboxes for box to box messages and to area control. Also to drivers at SPT equipped signals. Richard Davies Signalman (Retired)

[@tanyajackson3833]

​@@richarddavies6609 It depends on the era, surely?

[@dizzy2020]

The 'frame' in a signal box is essentially a massive mechanical computer - it's designed to interlock in ways that prevent conflicting moves being set so it 'makes decisions' to some extent. Also - a lot of early computer development happened at MIT where they had a Tech Model Railroad Club. Within that club was a group who were dedicated to creating automated signalling systems for their layouts - originally using telephone relays but they moved from those to early computers and many members went-on to work for companies like DEC creating the earliest computer systems. They even christened the term "Hacker" as someone who could "Hack" together a working solution - the modern derogatory usage of the term is incorrect, people who break into systems are crackers - hackers are creative and smart...

[@chrislambert-shiels5291]

​​@@richarddavies6609I guess that's right, but not for safety critical messages I think. Omnibus phones were good for filling in football pools on Saturday pm though 😂

[@lawrencecody4085]

I trained on this layout when it was at Manchester Victoria, but can`t believe that was 50 yrs ago. I also had the opportunity to have another go about 1993, to demonstrate how signalling works, as a team..at Victoria, then again, in March 2014 in York, as part of an organised visit from the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester, (where I volunteered as a fireman, and Operating Officer). It really has been a part of my railway life..and feel so proud to have trained on such an historic layout.

[@ModMokkaMatti]

I may be a Yank and unfamiliar with a great deal of the technicalities of railroading, but I couldn't help but notice that one thing that was glaringly absent here was an appropriately-scaled tea towel to be used when setting the switch and signal levers. Doesn't that omission count for a mistake here? 😆 This video was quite interesting to watch - although I'm rather certain that I would fail abysmally in either the training simulation, or in a real life application.

[@graemehannam3950]

Wow, been to nrm a few times but never seen this in action, however it takes me back to my youthful days I had the experience of working in Clayton west station cabin as all l&yr box’s were called and Clayton west junction cabin, to say it was only a branch line there was not only passenger service to deal with but the colliery trains too, at the run round loop the class 37’s had no problems but with the class 40’s it was a different story throughly enjoy my time there

[@Jonno180556ADI]

I’m a volunteer signalman on the NNR and I loved watching this. Didn’t know this layout existed and going to have to come and see it working if at all possible. 😊😊

[@delboy1727]

What an amazing piece of kit, and fantastic that it is still worling so well. Definitely surpasses anything they used at the signalling school I went to.

[@emdxemdx]

"The need for signaling arises as soon as the company gets it's second locomotive"...

[@Fry_tag]

Sort of reminds me of: " The first motor race was held as soon as the second car was built"

[@justinstrickland5382]

American here, absolutely fascinated by British signaling technology both modern and historic. It’s the epitome of the phrase ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’. Is this lesson available as an actual program or ‘class’ at the museum? When I visit I’d would enjoy participating in a program like this.

[@NatRailwayMuseum]

In the video description there's a link to the Signalling Demonstration page on our website. I'm just getting hold of the 2025 dates to update it.

[@christophervalkoinen6358]

If you want to get hands on, our volunteers also operate a replica signal box in our signalling gallery on the same days as their demonstrations.

[@vibingwithvinyl]

Excellent video, very interesting. And what an awesome model of the signal system.

[@radio-g4-rm3dz]

Brilliant! I enjoyed watching, it was all quite familiar as I am a signaller on a heritage line, we operate single line working with tokens, bell codes are all the same. You did well, most people are quite intimidated when confronted with that, well done 👍

[@relaxreflect5888]

It feel criminal to me now that my model railway only has singles for show it would be amazing to have it all set up correctly then maybe playing trains could be even more fun 😊 just need to find more friends to play with lol 😝

[@peterflitcroft9756]

Used to like visiting local signalboxes in the 1970’s. The ‘Bobby’ was usually happy to explain how everything works. Those days are long gone on Network Rail.

[@radio-g4-rm3dz]

There are still about 130 mechanical boxes still in use on NR and apparently a lot of them are not going to be replaced anytime soon according to some of their managers I've met.

[@835-Act]

OMG that was complexed very interesting. My Great Grandfather was a single man on the GN&GE railway in 1901 he had two level crossing to deal with as well as group on sidings and signals ….. hats off to there skills ❤

[@richardroyle5224]

That was so interesting and gave a real appreciation of what the job involved. Thanks!

[@thomasstaal6]

What a nice little episode!

[@TONYRIGDEN]

Wow! I have pictures of this layout in old railway books my father bough me in the 50s. I was unaware it is preserved and still working. In addition since I am a signalman at Glenbrook Vintage Railway in New Zealand it is interesting to see how much New Zealand signaling systems were derived from British.

[@roberthuron9160]

When I was a lad,I helped in my local tower,in my home town! It was a ten lever operation,run on PRR rules! Controlled through telephone dispatch,and train orders,it was quite an operation,and I learned a lot! Today,that building still stands,but everything is remote controlled from Jamaica,CTC,you know!! Times have changed,and yes,the computers,owe much to railroad interlocking,as the gate circuit,was part and parcel of the mechanical side! Thank you 😇 😊!

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

I was extremely lucky to see the Swiss equivalent while on holiday in Zurich. Still used to train SBB staff - has semaphore lever frame, early power signalling, NX panel, and computer-based workstations. It was an open day and I got to operate most of the positions!

[@frogandspanner]

4:19 The R/G (or B in this case) filter disposition is shown for an upper quadrant signal, but the animation is for LQ, but at 12:14 we see the correct filter disposition for LQ.

[@justandy333]

The 1 thing that struck me in all of this is. I would imagine a trains crew would receive a monumental bollocking if they forgot to put the tail lamp on the train. That would cause pandemonium among the signal box crews, depending on how many sections the train had passed.

[@chrislambert-shiels5291]

A door on the catch (ie not fully closed) was not uncommon, esp on the offside of the train (ie not visible from the departure platform). Alternatively a passenger might have fallen out. I've seen trains go past a box that had travelled 90 miles in that condition. That said it was usually dealt with locally to minimise "Form 1", bollockings etc

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

something that perpetually irritates me with model railways is where the loco has working headlights and tail lights... and is showing tail lights between the loco and the train... also when the loco is showing dual tail lights, which signified the royal train or the Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pull trains until the late 80s

[@TONYRIGDEN]

You are so right. On our (Glenbrook Vintage Railway) guards check sheet is validate the tail lamp is on before the train leaves the depot

[@geoffreydingle2410]

We went to see this at Manchester Victoria with our school railway club in about 1950 and perhaps seeing this kindled my interest in railway signalling and in 1956 I left school and joined Westinghouse Brake & Signal Co in York Way Kings Cross as a trainee and worked there for 10 years and spent several years on site on the West Coast Mainline resignalling .

[@SteamCrane]

Fantastic that you were able to get it!

[@DrewsRailwayWorld]

Great session, and brought back memories of my time as a Signal Lad/ Box Boy at Arundel Junction on the Southern Region of BR, our instruments and levers were the same, however, our bell codes were similar although not exactly the same, and our signals upper quadrant. The signal that was red but that was shaped like a distant threw me?...Drew

[@nick-c]

Distants were red originally, up until shortly before grouping if I remember correctly.

[@DrewsRailwayWorld]

@@nick-c Thanks, I wondered if it is like the Home "distant' for the branch line? As the training place was built in 1912 maybe they had yellow and red distants? Maybe it was mixed so if the trainee came across one they would know what it was? Thanks for thoughts. ...Drew

[@nick-c]

@@DrewsRailwayWorld I think the distants would have all been red when this was built, changed to yellow in the 1920s - but some have been restored to red for historical interest.

[@drewsmodelrailwayworld4856]

@@nick-c Thanks ...Drew

[@marksreeves8729]

Fascinating film! I had no idea what was involved in signalling

[@Rolf-Dieter_Damm]

Wow. How complex that is.

[@dizzy2020]

If you enjoyed this - and who didn't - there's an old film called "The signal engineers" - made in 1962 it covers the early days of electronics signals, the training signal engineers went through and even how the older semaphores were replaced - it's on KZbin in several places and it's absolutely fantastic, well worth your time.

[@TonyNaggs]

Very interesting to see all the communications that go on.

[@kevinwilliams1602]

Oh the memories working with the S&T dept.

[@monkeycall911]

Great video. Very interesting. And complicated!

[@tarnmonath]

That was fascinating, and great fun to watch. For some time now I've thought that a great pub quiz question might be, 'What, exactly, is the red light on the back end of a train for?' Anyone who's watched this will now know the answer.

[@androidemulator6952]

Thank you for a most informative video - always wondered what the inter-ralation of lighst and signals was ! :)

[@colinlothlorian]

Brilliant, you did well.

[@stebear58]

I did my training on this Lay out when it was in Manchester Victoria in 1976 and in them days there over head Wired for the electric trains. They seem to be miss now. I became signalman on the woodhead line till it closed

[@christophervalkoinen6358]

When first built the layout had a third rail electric power. We don't have the overhead power setup but we have retained the power controller and third rail setup for the layout, although they are not connected. For simplicity we use battery powered models for demonstrations.

[@stebear58]

@christophervalkoinen6358 I love to play on it bring back memories of November/December 1976 when I was at signaling school

[@kholden2678]

Thank you for sharing this video of the details of signalling. It comes at the right time for me as I have a family connection to early British Railway engineering and I am designing a scale model layout based on the work of my 2nd cousin 4x removed George James Crosbie Dawson. George started his career as a civil engineer in 1866 with the LNWR and worked his way up to assistant engineer by 1883 workign on projects with the LNWR and LYR including the Preston Park Hotel as resident engineer. From 1886-1914 George was Chief Engineer for the North Staffordshire Railway. This video will help with the operating details I hope to replicate. I have other information to share and a couple of questions which I will share with you via email.

[@cedarcam]

I have never been lucky enough to see this demonstrated, I hope to one day now I see there is a list of dates

[@SMAZVidoes]

That was really educational. Well done.

[@steamgent4592]

Wow I’ve always wanted to learn the greater details of signaling and as a Midland, L&Y, & LNWR later LMS lines enthusiast this is absolutely wonderful. I’d love to get my hands on a Midland signalman’s manual or a facsimile of the same. For all the rules and bell signals etc. When I was younger I was all into the enginemans or drivers work and fireman. But I’m too old in my opinion to ever hand bomb a loco. This in turn has created a desire to learn and understand signaling and other aspects of the Railway

[@erikjaneskes5575]

Fascinating stuff!😊

[@robw53]

Great video Anthony. Does the layout operate at certain times throughout the year?

[@NatRailwayMuseum]

Thanks! There's a demo once a month but there are two planned for this month, one has just taken place and the next one is on the 28th. We'll be publishing the 2025 dates on the website soon. www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/whats-on/signalling-demonstration

[@robw53]

@ thankyou. I will definitely plan a visit for when it’s operating.

[@bertiewooster3326]

Fantastic system...

[@SteveStrummerUK]

Absolutely fascinating.

[@martinploughboy988]

As a experienced telecom telegraph engineer, this was fascinating.

[@SomeTrainboy]

Totally not an upper quadrant moving down at 4:06

[@gavinwhitelaw86]

yep, but animators always get that wrong!

[@spanglepoacher-ju9jk]

As a class 3 relief signalman on the Southern in the 70's, I am surprised that there was no entries made in the train register. As they don't have a "box boy", it would be a form 1 offence to not record all trains and bells. Tut Tut! We also had a very large scale model railway set up at Beckenham, but not as old.

[@anthonycoulls7301]

As said elsewhere, not everything we did and filmed made the cut

[@itsonlyme9938]

I was first installed at Manchester Victoria Station for the L&YR and that's where it come from.

So what is the procedure if its assumed there is part of a disabled train still in the section ? Does the signalman stop the next train and tell the driver to proceed at low speed - or does the signalman walk the track ?

[@nick-c]

You wouldn't assume! If it's not left the section complete with tail lamp, you'd send 'obstruction danger' and arrange for the line to be examined - which could be by a non-passenger train

[@tonymoore4584]

Strange that this simulation requires the signaller to offer a train onto the next signal box without having received ‘Entering Section’ beforehand. In my experience, even signalling locations with very short sections don’t do that!

[@BrokenIET]

Its not that uncommon. Places like Exeter where theres 3 boxes within a few hundred yards do it, then based on the signalling simulations I‘ve played theres also places like Ford in Sussex which has a similar set up.

[@tonymoore4584]

@BrokenIETinteresting! I guess I found it unusual that they’d make it part of a signalling simulation if it’s not the ‘norm’, but then with four boxes I suppose they have a chance to throw plenty of little quirks at them! AB signaller training has changed a bit since then 👍👍 did mine in 2022 on a far different set up to this! Feel like being able to see the train movements and points would’ve helped visualise it far better though

[@cedarcam]

I knew a section where a long train would be in 3 blocks so they always sent the bell code forward from 1st to 2nd and in turn 2nd to 3rd box whether a 2 car DMU or 70 wagon loose coupled.

[@lawrencecody4085]

I worked at Stockport for 27 yrs, and we had to pass the train on, upon accepting it, because of the short sections..so it was common practice in many locations.Stockport being one example.

[@Threelinkdave]

i have volunteered as a guard on a couple of heritage railways. Even when off duty I still look out for a tail lamp and that includes the big railway. You might think guards jst look out for signals and have to input. Well there is one situation where the guard must comunicate with the bobby rule 147. Where a train terminates and the rear with tail lampdoes not pass the box the signalman or lady signal man canot give train out of section. He / she could walk down the platform to check but that is time wasted. Rule 147 reguires theguard to give an all clear signal by raising an arm above the shoulder or a white light at night. The babby will ackowlege the signalnby repotition

[@Steamtostay]

7:12 I think the wrong footage has been used - that's the plunger lock (blue lever 10, not black lever 9) being worked.

[@tannerbass7146]

7:07 He says "number nine" just like Ringo

[@TimothyWorel-f8j]

What happens if you miscount or pause too long between bells? Is there a code to tell the other signaller that you got it wrong?

[@scottfw7169]

That is a good question.

[@NatRailwayMuseum]

I've asked Phil, will get back to you!

[@ncc13701]

If the wrong bell code is sent when offering a train, and it is therefore accepted by repeating it back to you, there is bell code 5 pause 3 for correcting the error, or 3 pause 5 if you want to cancel the erroneous code completely.

[@joechandler9765]

5-3 train incorrectly described, or if in doubt pick up the phone and agree a mistake has been made and start again.

[@NatRailwayMuseum]

'We don't use telephones in signal boxes!' -Phil Graham, 2024

[@rickbear7249]

Yesteryear's equivalent of an Air Traffic Controller, but with a far greater likelihood of a serious accident, should they get it wrong. Thank you for this fabulous insight video. As model railway enthusiasts, it makes us better informed in realistic running of our own layouts.

[@rickbear7249]

Fantastic possibilities for railway modellers. Not just operating the points/switches and speed control, but adding in the signalling will require exciting cooperation with more operators on the layout. Superb 👍

[@cedarcam]

@@rickbear7249 Something that annoys me at exhibitions is when shunting or running round most layouts will stop a loco just past a point end change the point and go forward again as if every point would have a signal, whist in reality in many places signals will be placed further back and route trains over a few sets of points. So watching a layout you would see more movement than everything in the distance at a busy show. eg Box A has 3 shunt signals together not one at each point end

[@pjeaton58]

Not a realistic comparison.

[@Deepthought-42]

Imagine doing doing this on a cold foggy winter’s night at the end of a long shift.

[@nick7076]

Originally at Manchester Victoria. The same principles still control the network, all be it with computers.

[@dianekivi5349]

I've seen an upper quadrant home and distant signal move into the lower quadrant! Why?

[@LordPhobos6502]

(0:00, intro) - OFF THE RAILS??? That's a lot of paperwork right there buddy!

[@00Zy99]

My mind can't help but go to Tom Scott's little German signalling adventure. Maybe it was a simplification for demonstration's sake, but the mechanical interlocking there looked more advanced than this. It reminded me of contemporary US practice. Does this mean that British practice was less efficient? This demonstration certainly makes it SEEM more labor intensive, requiring more people, and requiring those people to perform more actions for a given task. I think that the reason for this is that this system is not "interlocked". In the German demonstration, and what I know of US operations, mechanical interlocks allowed a single action to execute multiple events. I am pretty sure that this technology would have been available for some time when this layout was built. The reliance on bells and manual confirmations seems to be an additional burden on operators and a potential spot for mistakes and danger. Why was interlocking not implemented to the same degree as in the US and Germany? Even acknowledging the additional cost of machinery, the efficiency and safety improvements would seem to be enough to make it worthwhile.

[@sithlordofoz]

One day I'll make it over to the NRM when this is being demonstrated.

[@NatRailwayMuseum]

Link to demonstrations page on our website is in the video description. I'm trying to get hold of the 2025 dates. :)

[@GothicSteamEngine96]

One thing I want to know about is tokens/tablets. Can this layout demonstrate how those are used, too?

[@christophervalkoinen6358]

No, it can't. However, we do have a set of working token instruments in North Shed which we sometimes use for demonstrations on the same dates that the layout is operating.

[@nick-c]

Most heritage railways use tokens, and the signallers there would usually be happy to explain if you ask nicely.

[@James-o4p1e]

Brilliant video very interesting thank you

[@TravelJackJourneys158]

Fantastic video I found it very interesting

[@gtptvanbuuren3795]

Intense

[@ronfisher2-railwaytravelvideos]

I didn't see him write anything in the train register!

[@anthonycoulls7301]

Not everything we filmed made the cut

[@Kevin-go2dw]

I noticed that as well.

[@johnmartin4650]

A must must must see,go to,…..died and gone to heaven

[@Retirement_Life]

Really interesting video

[@levelcrossing150]

I think I would need some more practice.

[@hello-m8v]

First comment!