The parrots that understand probabilities

[@NatureVideoChannel]

Update: The authors of this study have reviewed the original data to account for the possibility of the birds being able to see the hidden tokens in some trials. They found that this this did not change the results and have published an Addendum here: www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16469-1

[@murmandamus5137]

That was the thing I was about to say. You can always see the token in their hands.

[@renaearmer4242]

nature video in one of the experiment the girl is wearing glasses that the bird can see what she’s picking out. The glasses are mirror like.

[@sassygirl9385]

renae armer yeaaaa but that’s why they updated the result in that link provided. They also had control experiments but still the findings for their original article or this video was found to be correct.

[@KyleDB150]

don't you think they chose the jar with the higher proportion of black tokens because it looked blacker?

[@willjennings7191]

You have to obscure tokens in the jar, and show the jars being loaded.

[@thomasboys7216]

They're so smart they even opened a furniture chain in Sweden.

[@ValeriePallaoro]

funny!

[@betweenthepoles]

🤣😂 But there hasn’t been another animal yet that can crack jokes 😜

[@Ansonidak]

And it was all done by 1kea.

[@JohnFruscianteFan]

And then they put you through a set of difficult tasks by having to build and put together things to get the product you want, just like what they're doing here!

[@michelleravenshade7509]

😂😂😂 ikea

[@madinkan]

On the next video: "Meet the kea who can analyze normal distributions and find the Z-score"

[@raulmuzikman]

By the next episode: meet the Kea that can make a choice based on bayesian probabilities

[@saltypork101]

@@raulmuzikman You could probably teach them the practicals of game theory.

[@myotiswii]

No that would be impossible because it is random and just made up by our teachers to confuse the crap out of everyone

[@microdesigns2000]

An upcoming video: Meet the kea who is an X-box legend.

[@starry_null]

Maximum likelihood estimation of hypergeometric distribution without paper & pencil

[@jimmyfortrue3741]

Parrot 1: "I think the answer is 42... What do you think?" Parrot 2: "Probably."

[@HaloNeInTheDark27]

@Anirban Chakrabarti do you....approach your parrot with romantic intentions?

[@datbanan2717]

@Anirban Chakrabarti get drunk again so you can comment shit on youtube more

[@fluffypuff766]

I see... The answer to life.. Now the question is: what is the question to life?

[@Roboterize]

But can they pick my lottery numbers?

[@perceivingacting]

or learn to do my taxes. I would even pay them some treats to do that. According to these researchers they could in principle!

[@steefant]

Yes, with a certain probability.

[@ithehuman007]

Pick 4 18 15 16 23 42

[@eurielrabano5732]

Dang we are turning parrots into hard workers...robots wont replace us...parrots will

[@Ansonidak]

They can probably do as good a job as you do :)

[@gododoof]

*Kea jumps on my shoulder* "I am now a pirate. You may address me as matey."

[@obsidironpumicia4074]

"Arrr, would this chest have more treasure, or would the other... whaddye think, Kea?" *"Awwwww!"* "Aye, probability is unknown until we actually open it, resulting in a Schrodinger's Parrot situation."

[@hyperion3145]

Plot twist: The parrot is actually the pirate

[@saintdolanchirosius3704]

"Look at me, I am the captain now."

[@kirbybie]

pronouns are cap’n/leader of the high seas

[@ernestinadominguez7551]

Argh matey! 🏴‍☠️

[@roxyshow123]

The parrots that understand probabilities. Wall Street is listening.

[@dushk0]

location

[@m33p0]

casinos are watching

[@Celevie]

i live on wall street in NY and know nothing about probability.

[@roxyshow123]

@@Celevie Can I assume you're not a parrot?

[@saltypork101]

@@Celevie I bet you know that "flipping a coin is fair". That's something you know about probability.

[@havingicecream]

I wish _I_ understood probabilities

[@Gooberpatrol66]

Damn you Bayes

[@Shock_Treatment]

Here's one. There's a 100% chance you'll die.

[@SteveVi0lence]

@@Shock_Treatment not necessarily. Depending on which country you're in, you could be considered brain dead in one country but not an another. Also, you have to define what is dead. No heart beat? Some people have artificial hearts and thus no heart beat.

[@MisterK9739]

SteveVi0lence All of your clever rambling doesn't change the fact that everybody is 100% going to die

[@MisterK9739]

@bad1dobby there are always errors to probabilities. and this is an error so small that it´s negligeable

[@NatureVideoChannel]

Correction: At 00:51 the word Auckland is misspelled. Apologies for this error.

[@offmeds2nite]

Link to article is broken

[@nagaharishgiri]

Our Indians might know about parrots intelligence and probability quite long back. Because the traditional people used to believe the predictions based on cards chosen by parrots. Happy to know about this kind of research.

[@frey4343]

@@offmeds2nite yup

[@ForTomorrowToday]

Auckay no problem

[@ForTomorrowToday]

@@nagaharishgiri en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrot_astrology

[@LuisAldamiz]

Cool, yet not surprised at all, because parrots in general seem amazingly smart. Last year when discussing by email with two co-authors of a paper on the linguistic abilities of grey parrots (one of which is an old friend of mine), I asked if these animals ever asked questions, because I know that great apes (other than us) do not, and the answer was a very clear "yes", even if they had not pondered about that before: that the mascot of the other co-author (the one I did not know before this conversation) actually asked questions with a clear intentionality of getting an answer and not at all copying human behavior only. Questions like "where is papa?", clearly indicating both a sufficient grasp of English and the ability to formulate open questions without ever before hearing them. Fascinating animals indeed.

[@stargazingskeleton5917]

That is amazing!

[@Oscar4u69]

you just blew my mind 🤯🤯🤯 I knew they were pretty smart, but not to that level, wow, birds are always surprising me

[@sofialaya596]

even dogs are more intelligent than we think. look up the experiment someone made letting a dog talk by using buttons. they can understand concepts and make sentenses on their own, like "karina" "danger" "outside", or "go" "outside" "park". you can know what they want

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@sofialaya596 - Maybe, I am not familiar with that experiment, but AFAIK dogs are not outstandingly intelligent: many dolphins, many primates and some birds (parrots and crows notably), as well as elephants are the animals with the most notorious intelligences. In the case of primate and birds it may be partly because our neurones are smaller (primates' smaller than other mammals, birds' smaller than all mammals, including primates) and that allows to pack more brainpower in smaller casings apparently. But unsure why dolphins are so smart.

[@sofialaya596]

@@LuisAldamiz of course, I just think people often underestimate animals

[@X-Gen-001]

That is so cool. I wonder how crows and ravens would perform in these experiments. Because they're also very intelligent.

[@Thisispatrickwood]

X Gen That would be super cool!

[@X-Gen-001]

@@Thisispatrickwood Thanks bro. I love how crows can anticipate what they have to do when they're feeding on roadkill and they see a car coming at 110 km/hr. They don't freak out, they just calmly hop of the road until my car passes them and then they hop back over to continue their roadkill meal. Stupid birds like Galahs for example lol I hit them regularly. Because they panic and can't seem to process what's going on and so they try to outmaneuver the vehicle and just end up becoming a hood ornament for the day.

[@Thisispatrickwood]

X Gen yeah, they’re super cool, there was another study not too long ago that shows crows (plus a couple of other birds they observed like sparrows and blackbirds) actually learn the speed limit of different roads by watching the average speed of cars so they can know how much time they need to safely get out of the way. www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/8/130821-birds-road-speed-limit-traffic-evolution-animals/

[@X-Gen-001]

@@Thisispatrickwood Hah Amazing. Yeah I wondered about that. Natural selection at work. Very interesting thanks for the link.

[@Herbert2892]

@@Thisispatrickwood I know they're animals, but this seems pretty obvious even for them. They don't know the cars are at "80km/h" but if this car is 500m away it's easy to SEE that you can fly for a while without being hited if you're a bird.

[@koleso1v]

When parrots are smarter than half of your group mates.

[@ExecutionerDan]

I would absolutely not be surprised if these parrots scored higher than at least one of my ex-classmates on the mensa Norway IQ test. I swear it baffles me how stupid the human can be.

[@ExecutionerDan]

For example, one girl in my robotics class was talking about a project due soon, and I asked her how long her podcast was and I shit you not, she said 3 minutes and 76 seconds, and when I asked if she was positive she didn't make a mistake, she was perplexed I would ask such a thing. She also didn't know the difference between love and lust when a friend asked her. I also had another peer who didnt know what a legal guardian was, and this was all in the magnet program classes. My teachers called the non-magnet side of school, the residential side, and I couldnt agree more.

[@OriginalPuro]

@@ExecutionerDan The Mensa test is standardized, which country you take the test in is irrelevant. Albert Einstein failed the entry exam for college in Zurich, yet he is considered one of the smartest people to ever live. You can be less smart at some things while still being extremely smart at other things, for instance Christopher Langan which is the smartest man in US with an IQ between 195 and 210 has made several conspiracy theories about white supremacy, 9/11 and even made racist statements, he is smart as fuck in some areas but dumb as hell in other areas. I have to point out that you can remove half the commas in your comment and it would read much better, so we all have our flaws.:) For example one girl in my robotics class was talking about a project due soon so I asked her how long her podcast was and I shit you not, she said 3 minutes and 76 seconds and when I asked if she was positive she didn't make a mistake she was perplexed I would ask such a thing. Again, we all have our flaws so don't judge people based on the small picture but rather the entirety. " I swear it baffles me how stupid the human can be." I swear, it baffles me how stupid humans can be.* I am baffled that you are baffled by something which has been known since the beginning of human history, that we consist of some smart people and many less smart people. It wasn't the majority that invented the wheel or the bicycle, the majority isn't smart enough. Over half of human kind thinks fantasy figures like "gods" exist, some people claim humans walked the earth with dinosaurs around 5000 years ago, many people claim the Earth is flat and we have people who seriously claim they can change gender, as if chromosomes can be altered. Jeg kan fortsette, men jeg satser på at du forstår poenget.:P

[@ExecutionerDan]

@@OriginalPuro its understandable in retrospect that I use many commas, but I sont care to proofread my comments. Also, my autocorrect sucks nut so I wouldn't be surprised if at least one or two of my typos were due to that. I know that it wasn't the majority that invented the wheel, but at some point the rampant stupidity that my highschool excels at blasting me with should just be considered a human rights violation of some kind. I hope I didnt accidentally claim I was smart in my past comment either, because only my friends understand how dense I can be sometimes. It was just so aggravating to see that quote unquote common sense isnt so damn common, and it's so draining. I mean, it's safe to say you've dealt with someone so legitimately in the sense retarded that you couldnt help but want to seriously just up and leave since almost everyone has at least one moment like that. Now imagine every other day having to be like that with teachers force feeding you politics that are antithetical to your own beliefs while you cant argue with how wrong they are without looking like an asshole. Tl;dr highschool fucking sucked and even though I'm not smart in any definition of the word, having to deal with people's shit was so fucking aids.

[@ExecutionerDan]

@@OriginalPuro really the only reason I may not look mentally deficient is because I know how to use big boy words in a way that I judge to not look forced.

[@Mandragara]

I wonder if it's fun being a bird.

[@C4H10N4O2]

Well, they fly.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Sure, why would it not?

[@Mr_Rain_Forest]

Yes , because your movement is not restricted to only 2D surface but a new 3rd dimension is open for you to explore upon will.

[@ithehuman007]

Did u watch spies in disguise

[@MrAlRats]

Ability to make predictions based on estimating probabilities does not indicate a sense of self. There's no reason to think birds are capable of having fun.

[@frey4343]

my geography teacher said that animals cannot think but are only guided by their instincts. I don't think that's true

[@sourpuss5951]

The existence of service dogs should be enough to disprove that teacher lol. 😂 Why is a geography teacher trying to make claims about zoology?

[@brianisme6498]

Sour Puss because obvious geography teachers know everything there to do with animals

[@mertboy94]

he probably learned that from his teacher. Its an old way of thinking. Back then they thought only humans could solve problems and actually think about it. These days we know that there are alot of smart animals.

[@brianisme6498]

James Smith and they thought animals had no emotions, which is why it was considered okay to do experiments that nowadays would be considered unethical or just disgusting. Like the experiment Pavlov did where he ripped open a dogs esophagus and neck so when the dogs swallowed it would just fall out. He wanted to know how much saliva a dog could produce.

[@broddr]

Last I checked, humans are also animals. Why would anyone expect any more than a difference in degree?

[@Xmarduk]

1:25 You can see the black token through her fingers. At 3:12, you can see the orange token in the left hand. 3:54 black token can be seen in right hand. Birds are definitely, intelligent, no doubt! Smaller tokens needed for their tiny hands.

[@VolkColopatrion]

God I'm so jealous. Working with these birds must be a fantastic experience

[@devrim-oguz]

They need to do these experiments in a better way. I can see the color of the thing through her fingers...

[@MisterK9739]

Ali Devrim OGUZ Yeah I'm sure you as a random keyboard warrior know better than an actual doctor in her field... smh

[@brianisme6498]

Epic Terry I think your overestimating yourself, I’d trust an actual professional in her field rather then some rando on the internet.

[@rosiefay7283]

@@MisterK9739 So what's your refutation -- or did you post that just to be rude to Ali? If even the camera can see a bit of the token, then perhaps the kea can, and that possibility needs to be controlled for. You don't need to be an expert in the field to see that.

[@thecurrentmoment]

Mister K. not a doctor yet, I think... needs to submit her thesis, argue her thesis, etc. At least, I assume it is work in progress, I could be wrong

[@achanwahn]

@@MisterK9739 Even I noticed it. & not all doctors are savvy. A lot of case studies are flawed & have been thrown out over decades. Science is constantly evolving.

[@MajinSayon]

Kias are so intelligent, they'll have your budgie as their pet.

[@eleSDSU]

I don't see why Korean cars would have pets.

[@mattrogers5188]

They'll have you as their pet.

[@vocalpatriot]

Just the fact that this bird submits to your testing, in the way that it does, is amazing. I am impressed.

[@alimran7055]

Tfw KZbin finally understands what I need in my recommended feed.

[@SupaDanteX]

You mean, your bird feed? :D

[@kleptordemagnifico]

"And even which hand it can be picked..." Yeah, it can see through your poorly closed fingers.

[@和平和平-c4i]

hahaha interesting. Maybe it could be. The researchers should exaxmine this possibility when designing the experiment,

[@Roadmappingtofi]

I was wondering was anyone gonna mention that 😄

[@MM-hd6xo]

The real question is - can these be trained to solve my math homework?

[@TwinShards]

Tbh, even though you said that on a joke lol. If they are smart enough (also other kind of birds like Crow/Raven and Blue Jay) I believe this would be possible to literally make them learn math. Even if it would be small number, i'm sure this could work. Let's say there would be a box filled with stick and another empty box, you would show them a sign that write " 1 " then " 2 " and so on and they must move the right amount of stick into the empty box to a treat. Then show them " 1+1 " " 2+2 " and so on. also try with let's say " 2 - 1 " and else. And if they could succeed with a little bit of training then it would show how smart they can be and retry the experiment with the same bird a few months later to see if he remember.

[@Scarletraven87]

They can. But you're not worth it.

[@sanjeevdandin9350]

@@Scarletraven87 Damn iamma steal kea and make it write my 4times failed "Probability and statistics" exam!

[@coolcool9634]

no because they do not understand human notation.

[@kimjunguny]

No, what theyre doing isnt math. its barely probability. It may just be that these birds learned black = food so when they see more black they get more food... Not probably they will get more food, they will literally just get more food.

[@theraginggam3r679]

They are so smart they know that the “smart researcher” isn’t gonna hold the god dam black stick the right way so he can see it in her hand every time 😂

[@utrak]

hire a researcher with fat fingers dammit

[@matiastoro1667]

Right. That girl often leaves a gap between her fingers where the bird can see. 0:25, 1:25, 3:13, 3:54. They should have tested her first, or use smaller tokens.

[@Ansonidak]

Even the common budgie is amazingly intelligent.

[@utrak]

certainly smarter than my ex wife

[@angel2000317]

Yes, it's so true! I've had 4, and 2 of them have talked. The first who talked learned the name of one of the family dogs (and her bark). When the dog came over to the bird cage, the bird jumped on the front and said the dog's name. He even started making the sound of a cockatiel we took care of for a few months and then saying that bird's name. One of mine that didn't talk learned the sound of my alarm clock. If I took a nap, she would come to the side of her cage closest to me and make the alarm clock sound. My current one is the most incredible talker and also interacts in such interesting and fun ways. He will combine words to create new ones! For example, he learned "sweetheart," and for fun I started calling him "babyheart." He has since said "birdheart" and "sleepyheart" (I'd said "bird" and "sleepy" but never combined them in the way he did). He made up the word "birngel" out of "bird" and "angel" (again not something I had ever said). His favorite now seems to be a combination of "silly Billy" and "sweetheart," so he says "Billyheart" or "Billytheart." The more his family laughs at something he says or does, the more he will do it. And he absolutely has a sense of humor. They are adorable little creatures!

[@apatheticAnxiety]

Mine drowned in its half inch deep water container. Its companion just watched it die and did nothing to help.

[@Ansonidak]

@@apatheticAnxiety Incredible.

[@darrenrobinson9041]

@@apatheticAnxiety - Though to be fair, their marriage had been in trouble for some time.

[@UpamanyuDas]

Congrats to the team! Having worked with Amalia before, I realise how deep their research runs. Great research like theirs is fundamental in understanding the evolution of our own intellect!

[@Kayenne54]

So, what you are saying, is that humans too can aspire to being as intelligent as parrots? If only....

[@tiltil9442]

@Kraptonite millions of years ago

[@tiltil9442]

@Kraptonite that joke was quite the high-flyer, wasn't it?

[@dflood13]

Amalia seems like an awesome human

[@sootheseeker]

Failure in experiment as the token easily visible from the splits of fingers.

[@blighthornsteelmace820]

yes, I also noticed that many times in this video.

[@Xizile93]

Since the birds also go for the hand with the higher probability of black even if both experimenters have a black token (or the higher probability one has an orange one), it looks like they don't see that.

[@blighthornsteelmace820]

@@Xizile93 Your statement is logically incorrect. The implication is not true. I do not deny that the bird did not choose on the basis of more elements, but even if he did it, it does not follow that he did not see what was in the hand. The experiment is therefore invalid. When drawing conclusions from animal behavior, one must be very careful in experiments. It's easy to make mistakes. We remember the horse called Hans from 1910.

[@schluebenschlaucher1130]

While you are not Incorrect about this, I have to say that this is the case in only two shots (out of many) I have seen in the video.

[@SocksWithSandals]

@@schluebenschlaucher1130 One can extrapolate that in most tests, the parrot could see the peg.

[@jujuberrie]

In the future, it's not gonna be the robots that take over.. It's gonna be the BIRDS

[@SocksWithSandals]

Those women's hands were too small to enclose the clothes pegs. I could clearly see the peg between their fingers. No doubt the parrots could too.

[@MrCmon113]

I wonder whether they tested for that in their paper. I like probability, so I guess I'll read it.

[@bulldog370a]

3:53

[@sjuttt320]

I had noticed this as well. I thought the probability of somebody else noticing this fairly high so I searched the comments for a comment such as yours and now i'm replying, yet I get no treat.

[@rocmage1366]

I agree, in every singe case shown, I can see the color of the token.

[@MrBoo88]

These birds also love to steal things from you. One time a kea stole my iron anvil. Somehow it flew away with it! Then later it came back to steal my ☼apple wood wheelbarrow☼, Oh I was sooo mad.

[@Freezo90967]

bro they steal all my rum

[@Eidako]

i.imgur.com/8kQsKr9.jpg

[@Freezo90967]

@@Eidako pretty funny hehe..

[@metalmicky]

They are also very good at taking external bits from cars as well.

[@xx-bg2dj]

A real pain when one distracts you and gets you out of the car, and the others drive off with it.

[@adamzabielski3685]

Im a volunteer worker at Willowbank (where the keas in this video are in), and I can tell you that the kea we have there are a lot of fun, each time you go there, they always come to you and check out what you have. Inquisitive, cheeky and clever birds

[@SUN-it6rf]

We loved seeing the Kea in the wild during our trip to NZ. We were told not to feed them as they are very aggressive. We had fun just looking and the interaction.

[@Longtack55]

Kaka are of similar appearance, and much bolder when there's human food about. Kea tend to be more cautious, in my experience. They should not be fed "our" food.

[@KL_Stereo]

Seems really interesting, but would be nice to see some actual numbers and more about the test setting, which seemed to have some problems experiment-wise. Hope someone from this research team or someone else tests the reproducibility in the future, looking forward to seeing more data on this.

[@albertmarti2718]

Ahhh, here's the comment i was looking for^^

[@ValeriePallaoro]

You're seeing a youtube video of the results. Surely you can see that the peer reviewed stuff gets published elsewhere. With all that means.

[@WeMuckAround]

They're so smart they even set up a Korean car brand

[@dusky1662]

I love parrots, and keas are one of my favorites! They are so interesting and smart I love learning about them!

[@shabeeb_co]

I LIKE NATURE.

[@marsshellTV]

I LOVE it

[@realcygnus]

Magnificent creatures ! As are all imo.

[@biswanathmalaker]

And here's me struggling to understand probability since last 8 years

[@WizardClipAudio]

She meant to say, ‘even out performing some people at certain tasks’. ‘Monkeys’ was a nice euphemism though.

[@rithrius5384]

I would be disappointed if they didn't name one of them "Albird Einstein".

[@treyp3541]

1:25 you can literally see the token through the hand...

[@2lazyt378]

When humans go, they will evolve into hyper intelligent bird people

[@johncarlodimaangay3812]

Legend says they just learn Statistics and now studying Differential and Integral Calculus

[@joss1videos]

They might also have seen the token through the fingers as I saw a few times during the video.

[@oceangypsy358]

Dr. Pepperberg & Alex RIP would be proud. A great study/ experiment. Wishing you success in the studies. Much thanks 🙂🙏

[@bokchoiman]

Researchers asked a Kea: "When do you think you will inevitable go extinct?"

[@utrak]

Kea: *thousand yard stare*

[@garynarborough]

These birds are so intelligent you can't believe. It's their innate intelligence and curiosity that's made them so adaptable. I'm from NZ originally and this is one bird I never had the opportunity to get close to regrettably. Interesting video, thanks!

[@Longtack55]

Hi Gary. Best accessible places to see them naturally is the car parks on the Otira Gorge road, Routeburn track car park and most tramping tracks above the South Island bushline. No feeding.

[@garynarborough]

@@Longtack55 Thanks David, If I can ever return to NZ I'm going to make a point of seeing them. At this stage I probably won't be returning sadly. I miss NZ a lot. In the UK on my own but with age and health issues I can't see it.

[@Longtack55]

@@garynarborough I'm genuinely sorry to learn that Gary. The Great Apes and kea are the only animals able to assess "probability." I was watching a clip on a kea given several tasks and tools to strategise retrieval of a nut. It was edited so I wasn't able to determine the time-span but I concluded it had the intelligence of an eight year old. Unfathomable really.

[@perceivingacting]

The simplest (!) explanation is the birds _can see_ which jar "affords" or offers more tasty food events, _based on optical information_ (about "affordances", as "specified" by the relative area of blackness perhaps, plus reward outcomes). In Exp 1 at 1:30, it is _perceptually obvious_ - it can be _seen_ - that there is "likely" to be more black ones in the right hand jar which has the higher proportion (visible area of blackness)! It doesn't matter about them having in fact the same number - irrelevant. If it looks like it has more, it probably does, and animals can see and act on that. They don't count them out! They look and see on the basis of optical structure. From an ecological or affordance perspective, the RH jar affords more black tokens and is seen as such. Indeed, the action results in consequences that _confirm_ the affordance - food appears! Affordances are relational as well as facts of the world. So this is obvious but the explanation you give is the "little scientist in the head" theory of intelligence - that if birds are to be "intelligent like us", they must be doing something like calculating probabilities. Nonsense! We too are not calculating numerical quantities when we see and choose a bigger loaf of bread. That is the cognitive fallacy - it's all representations in the head. James Gibson showed us that action is largely an information-based _perceptual_ process, not an internal representation-based cognitive one. The birds see that the jar _affords_ certain actions, like offering more tokens that lead to treats, because it looks that way! They _see_ it. They perceive it. They have learned (through standard operant learning protocols etc) that choosing the one with the larger optical area of black stuff (let's say) literally MEANS more tasty treats are coming my way. The _meaning is directly perceived_ - this is not a cognitive process. Meaning is in the ecosystem, not the head. The perception-action approach, aka direct perception or ecological approach to perception has yet to sink in for the majority despite it being established 50 years ago and making huge differences in how psychology is done and thought about (eg, the "enactive/embodied approach" to human psych...and even robotics). The cognitive fallacy and its dualism of internal "mental" operations on "physical" and _meaningless_ inputs or sensations to create _meaningful_ "outputs" or behaviour is hard to overcome and this research promotes that. Meaning is everywhere, throughout the ecosystem, not just in the head/brain/nervous system. Same story for consciousness: everywhere. Read James Gibson's 1979 on what information really means for biological systems. This is an old debate - inference-based (indirect) perception (mechanistic, lifeless information) versus information-based (direct) perception (biological information). Research on direct perception and related "event perception" entirely changes the way we think about these phenomena. The world consists of events, not moments, and animals are all about making their way in the world, not about making representations inside their heads.

[@perceivingacting]

tl;dr? sorry!

[@CrossBorderNerds]

I was hoping this would be about them understanding dice and understanding a concept like gambling/RNG.

[@alialtai7130]

And here my bird is smashing his head against the table

[@williamsanchez491]

little do they know, the birds just have xray vision.

[@itburnswhenip]

This is the level of quality research thats going on these days? ...using sticks that the girls hands cannot completely cover allowing for the bird to see the color of the stick as they hold it... what a waste of time.. why not use smaller sticks that they can actually hide and redo all tests correctly.

[@drsipp407]

They’re making cars now. Smart birds!

[@SolaceEasy]

I saw Solomon 404 ski bindings on the skis. I had them on the first used pair of skis I bought. 1975!

[@williamozier918]

There are two types of people, those who can make accurate conclusions based on incomplete data sets.

[@Koellenburg]

"i cant wait to see what Keas do next" .... meanwhile on her Parkinglot .... xD

[@TheHappyKamper]

These birds are also super cheeky, and will chew bits off of your car. I've seen these exact birds a few years ago, I remeber the one with a damaged beak.

[@eschwarz1003]

Do they also care for their members? One of them clearly had a very damaged/ missing beak, but these are captive.

[@Reminiscable]

Whales have a higher emotional intelligence than humans. I believe cats and ravens have the same emotional intelligence as humans, and a fraction of humans have lower emotional intelligence than parrots and pigs. And 1% of humans have no emotional intelligence.

[@Techie1224]

Cats ?? No thats not true the cat only think in foooood 😂

[@MrCmon113]

@@Reminiscable All animals have the same ammount of "emotional intelligence" : none. It's a pseudo-scientific concept.

[@Reminiscable]

​@@MrCmon113Worms and humans are both animals. Psychology, ethology, and neurology all use the scientific method to collect data. Even if you consider free will and empathy to be pseudo-scientific concepts, we measure them quantitatively through perceptual control theory. Studying animal neural networks is science because it is an extension of biology, specifically neurology. Science studies emotions and mental states, yet an organism's ability to understand 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙧𝙚𝙡𝙖𝙩𝙚 to another organism's emotions & mental states is called empathy. Do you consider free will and human psychology to be pseudoscience? And yet, humans are able to relate to each other by proxy of their own emotional experiences. Empathy is a trait which has been researched through the scientific method with peer review, and whales (e.g. humpback whales) display this trait more proficiently than humans. Psychopathy is the inability to relate to others' emotions, because a mathematical comprehension of emotions is distinct from being able to relate to emotions from experience! The ability to empathize is a scientific measurement, and test subjects who excel at empathy have a higher emotional intelligence than test subjects with an inability to display empathy in social scenarios. Worms and psychopaths cannot relate to most combinations of emotional and mental states, either due to lack of experience or lack of emotional intelligence. Cows display the same maternal bonds as humans, which infers that cows have the same ability to empathize as human mothers. Cats and ravens display the same social deduction skills as humans, which infers they have comparable emotional intelligence (on average). Humpback whales and dolphins go out of their way to protect prey, which proves they have higher emotional intelligence than humans who cannot empathize with prey. So on a scientific basis weighted on empathy, worms have lower intelligence than cows and humans, who have inferior intelligence to humpback whales. Of course, intelligence can also be measured through mirror tests, turing tests, puzzles, and other tests which measure cognitive ability. Academia has a rudimentary understanding of neural networks, so for the sake of being able to communicate, scientists must correlate mathematical models to poorly defined concepts like free will.

[@marlenaforbes-reidy9876]

They are smart, intelligent and a treasured national icon of New Zealand 🇳🇿♥️

[@uula.]

So if someone calls me birdbrain that means Im smarter than they expected, right?

[@CJ-dx5mc]

I've seen these birds bite up cars and sheep lol, and then these ladies are just chillen with them.

[@The_Vincening]

Crows have been studied for years and have been proven to be very intelligent, so why not all birds?

[@和平和平-c4i]

No, not all birds. It applies only to 2 bird families: First is corvids (crows, ravens, jays, magpies, etc) and the 2nd is parrots (pistacidae)

[@novadantes4850]

OH snap I know that place I volunteerd there a while ago and worked with those exact Kea even know their names (mostly villians Jhonny, plankton, harley quin, etc) NEVER PUT THINGS DOWN AROUND THEM hold it and be very VERY careful with jewelry, beanies and scarfs

[@mishapurser7542]

Bow down to your avian overlords!

[@catpoke9557]

So this means Keas can remember their buddy's favorite food to cheer them up

[@reacts179]

Well, it sees what's between your fingers, just saying

[@fburton8]

Yes, you can see the black peg in the closed fist quite clearly in several shots. If that's possible for someone watching the video, the birds will certainly be capable of doing the same.

[@perceivingacting]

Yes, that too! Rather sloppy methodology at least for this demo for cameras! Their eyes are about 100 X better than ours at fine detail, like worms. The paper will have the details.

[@simonhewitt208]

i dunno know, if they always saw then they would’ve made a lot less mistakes right? maybe read the paper lol

[@fburton8]

@@simonhewitt208 Maybe they didn't always see? I had a quick look at the paper and appreciate a lot of thought went into the design of the experiment. It would be interesting to see if the result was replicated using e.g. coloured beads that are easier to conceal fully or even some kind of virtual peg that was computer generated.

[@phredflypogger4425]

Lovely looking bird. And a nice parrot too.

[@timc9372]

Kia is intelligent but the whole time I was looking at Amalia.Truth

[@darrens7040]

Kia is a car these birds are KEA

[@timc9372]

@@darrens7040 no these birds are IKEA

[@darrens7040]

Tim c so did you grow up with these birds living in the bush behind where you lived like I did ?

[@timc9372]

@@darrens7040 i grew up with vultures

[@jage6126]

My yellow crested cockatoo also understands probabilities, and also figures out how to do easy puzzles, without showing her.

[@actorrayzorray]

if i can see the token in the researcher's hand so can the bird.

[@AlPootis]

But one time we couldn't.

[@EdwinvandenAkker]

The other day I was putting together a storage closet. That day I found out that by taking away some screws and other essential parts, Ikea can understand probabilities as well...

[@perceivingacting]

So when a dog chooses a piece of meat the size of a plate (10 cm) and ignores the piece the size of a bottle top (2 cm), it is calculating a ratio of 2 : 10 (or 1 : 5) or a probability of 0.2...or a chance of 20% that the bigger one will be 5 X the fun of the smaller one because it is 5 times bigger than the smaller one...in its head? All without a ruler or tape measure! Amazing. Descartes has some explaining to do! Them thar dogs cleverer than Biden!

[@hunterklugh5067]

perceivingacting Interesting perception it might be much more simple and the dog is simply using it visual processing system to see which is bigger (more stimuli) than smaller (less stimuli) while it is a cognitive function it isn’t so much of a conscientious decision regarding specifics.

[@perceivingacting]

@@hunterklugh5067 Yes, you are right (I was being facetious). It is a much more "simple" matter of seeing where "more black" exists - "more stimuli" as you say (although it's more than just value-free physical "stimuli"). Anyway, of course the dog is not "calculating" probabilities...or anything. (Nor are we!). It sees (not thinks) what things in the environment afford certain actions. Look up "affordances", Gibson, ecological psychology...

[@allthenamesiwantedweretaken]

First the Kakapo, now the Kea. New Zealand, you continue to make me love you.

[@resetfakemail4685]

I wouldn't really say that it's statistics. Maybe good eye sight at best

[@ValeriePallaoro]

That's because you don't understand the way problem solving works, or how people communicate, and why it's interesting that keas can work in a similar way. *sigh*

[@sistakia33]

After I watched a crow using a computer...it was at that point I understood how "The Birds" won!

[@yfelwulf]

All animals need to remember where to find food a basic life skill.

[@Automalice]

i saw one on holiday and we kept going back and forth making its bird squeak to each other. It was amazing. I love nature

[@Tahoza]

The nature link to the paper doesn't seem to be working.

[@A-Port-In-Any-Storm]

maybe they were just choosing the jars based on their overall color. the jar with more black tokens looks black so they pick it, regardless of whether there's orange ones in there or not, and vice versa for the jar with more orange tokens.

[@mikeguer7011]

Is interesting, but I have my doubts, because, the birds recibed they were trained, there is a lot of preference for one girl than the other

[@GopnikTarass]

like me but i don't have training x)

[@Xizile93]

In training, both the biased and unbiased always have a black token. So in training it wouldn't actually matter which one they choose. ("During the demonstrations, E1 and E2 took turns sampling, and E2 always tilted their heads back and looked up whilst sampling, whilst E1 lowered their heads close to the jar and looked into it as they made a choice, keeping their hands in the jar for 3 s. Both experimenters always sampled a rewarding token, so that they were equally reinforced."

[@mikeguer7011]

@@Xizile93 ok, is clearer, with your explanation, one question more, was You a scientist in this experiment?

[@Snuusnuu69]

I hate to say it but many of the times she did the test you could see the color of the pin through the gaps in her skinny fingers.

[@stanfordcoffee]

Wow, ... a bird that's smarter than most Millennials.

[@MemesnShet]

The lids make it so the birds can see what token they’re picking up,thats why the birds get so close to the transparent screen:because they can see it

[@Vulvex]

Best job ever

[@johnreeves3876]

Next you are going to tell us they used the reflection of the glasses to see what token was picked

[@GopnikTarass]

Just a problem : I don't have bird eyes but i almost can see everytime the token in the hands of the girls...

[@JulieWallis1963]

Tarass Balbout wow, good for you. 😑😑😑

[@GopnikTarass]

@@JulieWallis1963 yes, very good! but if you can't understand why it's a problem for this kind of experimentation it's bad for you! Et vu que tu t'essaye au français : Si t'as rien d’intéressant à dire, ferme la! Bisou!

[@JohnCena8351]

Maybe it was just an unfortunate camera angle. They train these birds for years now, this was just a 4 minute video, not really a good represantation of all the experiments.

[@callysto_ii]

Pas la peine de changer de langue pour insulter quelqu'un -_- De plus ces jeunes femmes sont des professionnelles, je doute fort qu'elles n'aient pas pris en compte cet aspect. Et j'ai beau avoir re regardé la vidéo plusieurs fois en pausant je n'ai pas vu une seule fois les épingles avant qu'elle ne soient révélées, je pense que tu as du voir l'ombre de la main et pensé que c'était l'épingle parce qu'elle aussi est noire, mais si tu regardes les mains qui tiennent les épingles oranges c'est la même chose.

[@GopnikTarass]

@@JohnCena8351 that's sure, but stupid things like that can happened... for years!

[@peteluis2849]

I'm glad their friendly birds....dang those beaks!

[@philosoaper]

silly humans yet again assuming they're super special and unique

[@silverschmid4591]

Humans are so weird.

[@prithvirajdj]

But there's a probability that these parrots don't understand probability.

[@Jk-cx7ko]

I'm still a crow Person

[@utrak]

im a chicken man myself

[@Mangled_Babe]

All birds for me.

[@chantalrochon3566]

You both have an amazing job working with incredible birds❤😊

[@neomt2]

Kea's are omnivorous and love meat - they kill their own prey Avian dinosaurs ftw

[@ChaosBW]

Literally all birds are omnivorous. Name a vegan bird, you can't. Stupid comment.

[@neomt2]

@@ChaosBW I can easily name one: Hoatzin your lack of ornithology shows your comment is the stupid one

[@utrak]

if those damn birds were really that smart, they'd be watching rick & morty

[@puregibberish]

Only recently found out about Kea, because KZbin recommends I round out my Dwarf Fortress tutorial binging with a little science. Thanks KZbin.

[@flynnparish9833]

I would have thought the first clue was they started a car company in 1944.

[@richardalexander5758]

These are the birds that enjoy destroying parked cars like a gang of vandals.

[@sj0nnie]

Plottwist: Keas have x-ray vision.

[@Derlet30]

Such an amazing video! Thank you for sharing this research. The parrots are gorgeous! ❤

[@peterzimmerman1114]

When my african gray was told the yellow ones are good then he got excited and ran up to test the yellow.(he had been avoiding them and haddn't even tasted them up to that point) Also of note, we wern't talking to the parrot he was merely listening in and when he heard that, he just had to run over and try the yellow ones. Yesterday I had a phone conference call to negotiate residential rent increases the parrot got uncharacteristicly quite and was merely looking... didn't think that much of it though.... but after the call was finished I got a question and a comment.. "What was that?..... Don't understand.." and gave me strange looks. I'm guessing it was very strange conversation for a parrot, with lots of unknown human concepts.

[@str1xt]

They are just great. Cheeky looking little birds

[@farhabuh886]

The keas are "why are you doing this"