Naval Group's Propulsion Systems: AIP for Submarines

[@watermirror]

One of the main goals of fuel cell tech is avoid dependence from petroleum but this one still uses diesel to extract h2. But performance wise, this might end up an exceptional tech for military use

[@GlenCychosz]

Thank you Xavier.

[@NavalNews]

My pleasure!

[@goodputin4324]

@@NavalNews excuse moi, how much to upgrade Scorpene with this new AIP? And will the length be longer than Brasil Scorpene?

[@alexis_ian]

If the Philippines those select the Scorpene-class submarine (assuming it gets funded and pushes through), i'm hoping the follow-up scorpene will have AIP for longer underwater patrol and make it harder to detect.

[@goodputin4324]

Philippines should just buy A26 Submarines from SAAB

[@namazlur78]

You have 9B usd can buy 2-3 units with training & ammo 😂😂

[@NT-ds8ic]

@@goodputin4324 Who is the enemy of the Philippines? Stop paying for the weapons as the people are very poor.

[@blue280485]

This is the video I was looking for as very few videos on Naval Group FC2G AIP were available thanks for this video Naval News! How much does this AIP module cost? Will Naval Group fit this FC2G AIP module + Li-Ion batteries on Scorpene Class Submarines? In context of Kalvari Class of Indian Navy.

[@goodputin4324]

I was asking the same for Malaysian Scorpenes as well. Last time DCNS recommended MESMA AIP

[@ScrapshipDemolishion]

Thanks for video

[@briananthony4044]

Ideal would be to go to snorkel depth occasionally when safe to do so, suck in air and remove the O2 and store in the cryo tank for another 3 weeks submerged.

[@jebise1126]

nah... you would need huge machinery and lots of energy for that

[@pieterveenders9793]

@@jebise1126 It would definitely add another 5-10 meters of length to a submarine, but I doubt much more than that. Either through the classic method of fractional distillation, though that is more bulky, but probably the more efficient and compact way is through membrane technology which selectively passes only oxygen. So nowadays its probably feasible.

[@camomiletea6708]

The French submarine order was sunk today. The US is supplying nuclear submarines to Australia.

[@georgepantazis141]

About time,don't no if it will be UK,or USA design ,put together in South Australia,🇦🇺

[@Karl-Benny]

@@georgepantazis141 we will be dead before they get them

[@montys420-]

Will we see this incorporated into the Australian sub contract? You would think that this was tailored for Australian and Indian requirements!

[@montys420-]

@Ozzie climate refo early AIP WERE CRAP if they can do 12knots submerged in a 15knot tide they go backwards hence why they were rejected for the collins we have to far to travel in operations and im glad the contract was terminated Turnball trapped us into a crap contract and the French took advantage and bled us for nothing

[@montys420-]

@Ozzie climate refo and lithium ion would of bought into the project a huge fire risks and they're not good for long endurance missions your believing the propaganda we've finally ganba get the subs Australia has always needed.

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

@@montys420- both the Japanese and Germans have been running Li-ion batteries in their subs for nearly a decade or so now. So I’d say that they have found a way to manage the risk. Furthermore, with the Li-Sulphur breakthroughs announced just in the last month, there is a further enhancement on the immediate horizon: no risk of those terrible Li-ion fires and a battery system that is 5 times more energy dense than Li-ion (which in turn is twice as energy dense as the old acid lead batteries). So there is that.

[@montys420-]

@@andrewmetcalfe9898 the Japanese only launched there 1st lith-ion sub last yr and was commissioned into service this yr and they launched there 2nd this yr and the rest are being built the germans do not run lith-ion batteries

[@jebise1126]

@@montys420- well... japanese are putting those to their submarines.

[@CannabisTechLife]

Heh, getting recommended this after the US swooped in and took the Australian contract.

[@goodputin4324]

@Ozzie climate refo i miss Julia Gillard. Decent sheila

[@ronaldmarcks1842]

Please clarify that nuclear power is also AIP. You're really producing QUIETER AIP. Sensitive PASSIVE sonar (listening only) is the threat here. Lithium batteries alone are an even quieter form of AIP. The key question: what is the noise penalty for adding the FC2G to a lithium-alone solution?

[@jebise1126]

and cheaper than nuclear and smaller... yes but for lithium batteries you need different submarine because those are much lighter and if you just replace acid lead ones center of gravity of submarine will be much higher. not sure how they compare volume wise with lead batteries.

[@cesar2719]

How is the oxygen from the oxygen module recharged? in port or in snorkeling operation?

[@_R-R]

Port.

[@goodputin4324]

How much to retrofit the AIP into Scorpenes that's already running for navies?

[@namazlur78]

COD usd 450M self installed 😂😂 If want we install add another let’s say 150M usd including delivery 😂😂😂

[@legend_of_the_south_PH_24]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@watermirror]

This system might end up replacing the batteries in diesel-battery hybrid powered surface ships for low speed drive. No more recharging... 2 large diesel engines for high speeds + F2CG for low speeds...

[@ArnoA0230]

the argument against hydrogen is valid in a warship.

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

Not having a highly explosive gas that can leak through almost any container & needs to be stored at either very high pressures or very low temperatures is a valid argument in most situations.

[@camomiletea6708]

Australia should be mature enough to accept that nuclear power is the most appropriate power source for the size of submarine, not redesign the French submarine so that it is conventionally powered. If Australia accepted nuclear power, the US would have supplied the subs with a US combat system. The US has told the Australian government they will not put US combat system technology in the French design for security reasons. Australia was told not to order the NG design but the government ignored all the critical analysis.

[@canadafreeserena1873]

5 stars for you

[@goodputin4324]

Oz should have just ordered the Suffren subs

[@Karl-Benny]

cost of one nuclear sub could buy 4 AIP subs and they are quieter

[@ronaldmarcks1842]

It's essentially good, but please clarify that nuclear production is also AIP. You're producing QUIETER AIP. (Lithium) batteries are an even quieter form of AIP. PASSIVE sonar is the threat here.

[@namazlur78]

Problem with lithium batteries is risk of explosion during combat 😂😂

[@Robert66734]

Please ditch the terrible music in the background. It just makes it harder to listen to the interview.

[@georgepantazis141]

Australia to go nuclear submarines

[@shatteredstar2149]

No fuel cell no AIP

[@bfg1836]

You can’t put little lithium ion batteries in checked luggage on an airplane because of risk of fire, but you’re going to put a giant one on a sub with a great big tank of liquid oxygen? I spent 10 years on subs. No thanks.

[@jebise1126]

seems overly complicated and with so much steps i wonder how efficient all this is... seems sweden got better solution. much simpler and probably cheaper too

[@pieterveenders9793]

This should be considerably more stealthy because it doesn't use much if any moving components, but instead makes use of selective membranes and catalysts, which are completely silent. Sweden uses stirling engines, which produce vibrations and thus are less stealthy.

[@bbmw9029]

Any submarine propulsion system that requires tanked oxidizer is not AIP. Right now, the only REAL AIP system is nuclear propulsion. However there may be ways of building real AIP. I'd try extracting dissolved oxygen from the ocean water.

[@hectoraccented5312]

You only need to invent a new method of electrolysis that's practical and economical inside a submarine AND doesn't require a nuclear reactor.

[@bbmw9029]

@@hectoraccented5312 Electrolysis is not needed. There's plenty off oxygen dissolved in seawater. It just has to be extracted and used. Think about this: Some Tuna can make 40 knots underwater, completely air independent, extracting the oxygen they need from seawater. Why shouldn't a submarine be able to do that?

[@hectoraccented5312]

@@bbmw9029 Because we use engines/fuel cells, not muscles, 1 liter of sea water has around 8 cubic cm of oxygen IN TOTAL. Even at 100% efficience, you would need to process 32 liters of water every 74 grams of petrol, a 8000 hp diesel sub consumes 1911000g of fuel/hr at max /74 x 32 =826 tons of water /hour. So you need to invent silent, ultra-efficient, self-cleaning "artificial Gills" that can process a dozen tons of water every minute.

[@bbmw9029]

@@hectoraccented5312 There are oxygen / CO2 permeable synthetic membranes that can be used. And a double hulled submarine could put a huge surface area of such between the hulls. And I'm not burning the oxygen, I'm running it through a fuel cell.

[@jebise1126]

AIP use LOX not air so it is air independent

[@camomiletea6708]

Are you putting this propulsion in Australia’s Barracuda Class when you deliver them in 50 years , over budget and too late to use against the Chinese?

[@toddc2788]

Hopefully you can translate to Australian, but this youtube channel is not going to build anything, for Australia or anyone else. You should forward your question to the Australian Navy.

[@nerdbane9376]

@@toddc2788 Naval Group is the company building Australia's attack class submarines. There has been a tonne of public and political debate over the this new submarine. The batteries and fuel cells it will use is one of the points of debate.

[@abrahkadabra9501]

Wasn't it the Australian government that signed on the dotted line? Naval Group made the offer and it was up to YOUR government to accept or refuse this offer. Shouldn't you be directing your bitching to the Australian government?

[@nerdbane9376]

@@abrahkadabra9501 The Australian government did get a whole heap of heat over the submarine deal. Still are.

[@abrahkadabra9501]

@@nerdbane9376 Blaming Naval Group for the poor decisions of the Australian government was a bit much for me. This is the level of dialog in the land of Oz over the sub controversy.

[@markjmaxwell9819]

A real shame that Australia bailed out of the French submarine contract. The one billion plus it cost Australia was a bit of a blow but the French submarine was the best option for our country. How to win friends and influence people is not a book that is mandatory reading for Australian politicians especially in defence deals. Using the FC2G AIP which uses diesel fuel reformation to create power paired with GS YUASA Lithium-ion submarine batteries or the new South Korean lithium-ion submarine batteries or fuel cells with the diesel engines used for charging the batteries or fuel cells when snorkeling and surface running I had calculated around two to four weeks submerged at cruise speed without snorkeling or surfacing. Using a direct drive electric motor and a new design for the dual contra-rotating propellers on the same axis for propulsion with anechoic tiles on the hull for noise reduction. I have a few new ideas for the way the submarine propellers and or propulsion systems can be built that hasn't been tried before. A Thales sonar system and decoy launchers could be used to help finish the design. Three types of weapons can be launched from the torpedo tubes. An F21 torpedo an Exocet SM39 missle and an extremely fast MdCN cruise missile with the option to lay sea mines also available. The AIP has no depth limitations and the submarine design is slightly quieter than a nuclear submarine when submerged and well suited to Australian requirements. The AIP module shown above is sized for retrofitting to existing french submarines but custom sizes can be built. The overall design is a little bit more complicated than I have described but the engineering is sound. The price has ended up increased to eighty billion for french submarines with the current estimates at three hundred and sixty billion for all the AUKUS nuclear submarines plus through life costs. Nuclear power has been banned in every state and territory in Australia for many years. The decision to cancel this contract and go with nuclear submarines is not popular with the majority of the Australian general public. The decision is purely to appease the UK and US with an extremely expensive price tag required to sit at the big boys nuclear table. The performance increase a nuclear submarine brings to the table compared to the design described above is not worth the extra money. The UK or the US can't start building Australia a custom nuclear submarine for at least a decade and leasing any from the USA is unlikely at this stage. A huge mistake from Australia with US and UK ass-kissing leaving a big capability gap and making us look like idiots. I am sure many countries will be interested in this AIP and french submarines going forward but a bit more warily than before after the furore with Australia. I hope the new submarines that the Netherlands are having built are of a very similar design to how I have described them above with similar performance. 😎🇦🇺👍