India's ancient caste system misinterpreted by modern historians?

On News Point, we discuss the debate sparked over the newly appointed ICHR Chairman Y Sudershan Rao's blog stating that the caste system worked well in ancient India. Historians discuss the matter of caste system that existed in India and whether the present day idea that it was an exploitative social system is a misinterpretation. (Audio in Hindi)
Watch full video: www.ndtv.com/video/player/prim...

[@prof.dr.4224]

My husband's ancestor was Ramram Basu, who was appointed as a Professor in Bengali and Sanskrit in the Fort William College in Calcutta in 1800. The Brahmins of that college objected that a Kayastha could not teach Sanskrit. His appointment was postponed for 4 years until Warren Hastings intervened. Thus, it is absurd to say that there was no caste system in India before the British came.

[@betadevb]

Proof is in your statement that caste system is modern. Your ancestor was a professor in a college setup by the British. Why would he allow other castes (ethnicities) to be eligible for his job? This is no different to people wanting less immigration to keep their wages higher. So do Donald Trump anti-immigration parochialists follow ancient Indian caste system? Both caste and modern versions of hinduism are positive orientalism. Neither existed in pre-modern India in a consistent way across India.

[@silentuniverse2401]

​@@betadevb ​ What you are saying is completely out of context and incomprehensible, make more sense while writing any answer. She has made perfect sense that caste system is inherent part of hinduism and has been going on since thousands of years, and has been a discriminatory tool against Dalits and shudras. Watch the video completely as the panellists has given several points that proves caste system existed in hinduism

[@betadevb]

@@silentuniverse2401 no my understanding is the modern academic understanding. Check out works of Nicholas dirks who is the leading expert on this or Gnana aloysius who is a Dalit activist. Both moder Hinduism and Islam in South Asia was institutionalized by the British in 18th century. There is no "thousands of years" here. British needed caste system to find unpaid labour for their plantations. You can say Brahmins benefitted but the "intricate feature of Hinduism for 1000s of years" is fake history.

[@silentuniverse2401]

@@betadevb keep your points based on facts and research. It's a sensitive issue so your own perception isn't sufficient. रविदास जन्म के कारनै, होत न कोउ नीच नकर कूं नीच करि डारी है, ओछे करम की कीच [ कोई भी व्यक्ति किसी जाति में जन्म के कारण नीचा या छोटा नहीं होता है, आदमी अपने कर्मों के कारण नीचा होता है. ] This was said by Saint Ravidas in 900CE and Britishers came in 1700CE and there are many proofs that caste was in hinduism since ages.

[@betadevb]

​@@silentuniverse2401 that's written in devanagri and modern sanskrit - developed in 17th and 18th century by the British - Fort William College is one of the major places where this happened. Likely transcribed during British period. Original text would be dated to 900CE - but that doesn't mean the text was in widespread use In 900CE most of modern day India did not speak or understand devanagari sanskrit. Were translations floating around for people in Kanyakumari and Bengal to understand this? Who was travelling across the subcontinent, risking confrontations with tigers, leopards and hostile tribes, to translate and spread this word? The history is the same with Islam - Urdu scholarship, much like modern Sanskrit scholarship, was institutionalized under the British. I am not saying caste based discrimination does not exist in India - it obviously does. But it is not an ancient monolothic practice. It was institutionalized in 17th century onwards. And this is not my stand - google who Nicholas Dirks is. It's his research. He is chancellor of UC Berkeley. Possibly world's most renowned expert on South Asian history.

[@kvshirke9538]

I am from the lower most caste. If the caste system is so good is any Brahman ready to exchange his caste with me.

[@smathias7840]

Why are u still following such a caste system.Leave ,be free and enjoy the free world.God loves everyone .

[@shashwatanand5397]

Bhai karlo exchange. Mujhe mil jyega reservation, Brahmin hone ka aise to koi fayada nhi ghata hi hai

[@datsrohan]

@@shashwatanand5397 wahi toh baat h bhai reservation k liye caste exchange kroge lekin jo real casteism usk liye exchange karoge ?

[@shashwatanand5397]

@@datsrohan Bhai sab paise se hota hai. I have Dalit friends who are from rich families having government jobs. Unke saath koi oppression nhi hota, why? Money and power, jiske bhi pas hai he becomes a social elite and no one gives a damn about caste samjhe. Sirf reservation ki wajah se differences hain. Everything else is just propaganda.

[@parblisful]

brother dont call yourself lower caste....call it a different caste ...and equal to them

[@bahujannayakkanshiram3465]

सच है कि जब तक रवीश सर जैसे ईमानदार पत्रकार हैं तभी तक लोकतंत्र बचा हैं।

[@babasolar7100]

Tu v gandu hai ravish ki tarah

[@poopsicklebumpkins]

@@babasolar7100toder moto sheyana howar theke bhai amra gandu e bhalo. shudhu proshno kori, karor khoti korina.

[@mohammadrafique5610]

Brahmin pareshan is only reason of support for cast system.

[@onlinebharat111]

@@mohammadrafique5610 very true

[@dodololo5586]

yes, we always need a ravis kumar. a anna...... and we r dump. yes . u r right

[@pradnyaadhav811]

Sinha is trying to justify caste system with the help of mythology. How can you say that at some age caste system was comfortable, were the lower caste people asked whether they were comfortable with it, which human will be comfortable in being treated in an inhumane way.

[@parvinder777]

actuly he knows the truth,but being a rrs member he can not say it openly.

[@StopFear]

It is because he is an immoral hypocrite. He is one of those ancient nationalist people who refuse to accept ANY criticism of India's culture or history. To people like him India is a perfect country whose modern problems are ONLY cause by someone from outside of India. Obviously there are some rooted cultural practices of India's people which perpetuate racism, discrimination, and mistreatment.

[@manjunathareddy6548]

Caste and jaati are different. Jaati is based on the profession. Jaati is a characteristics, skills of a person. Cast system exist in america too because normal man in USA cant expect the respect of president.

[@pradnyaadhav811]

Ms. Reddy caste is the English word for जात in Marathi or जाती in Hindi. I think you got confused between caste and religion. Religion means धर्म

[@ak220880]

it is irony that now our respected govt is trying to play with history. They appointed a person at post of ICHR chairman, who do not even know the meaning of word "history". he continously stubborn to presenting things and claiming of time of ancient india, but failed to tell of what period and wat r the evidences. our hinduism have a beutiful line that "satyam sivan sundaram" i.e. truth is beutiful and truth is god. but these brahminism religions followers trying to forcing things as truth without giving proper evidence in support and in a way killing the sprit of finding & speaking truth. they r presenting mythology (and lame unconnected pseudo-science and pseudo-documentary by mythostorians in support of that) as history, and presenting history as mythology. Remember, those who dont respect their history, history repeats itself and give big punishment. this govt who claim about inclusive growth, now r appointing casteism supporters at its key posts. These very casteism/varna had become reason of foreigners did successful invasions on country.

[@vinay16011990]

Upa time me Bana tha

[@teeluckdharrysailesh8834]

Caste System is a Violation Of Human Rights

[@pramodgurjar7053]

@@teeluckdharrysailesh8834 how

[@mangeshppatil]

Sudarshan rao seems completely confused about his own article

[@aruneshkumar2522]

Exact

[@unanimousjandu1034]

Actually I think Hindi is not his mother tongue therefore he is kinda slow

[@Happiness.789]

Before I study sociology even after graduation I didn't know about the caste system. Such a hopeless thing.Most hopeless thing is that second generation Indian born and brought up in foreign countries like USA also follow the caste system.

[@sankrantis6622]

Mountstuart Elphinstone in a written reply to the House of Commons in August 5, 1832 on mobility in India despite the caste system : "Notwithstanding the institution of castes, there is no country where men rise with more ease from the lowest rank to the highest. The first nabob (now king) of Oude, was a petty merchant; the first peishwa, a village accountant; the ancestors of Holcar were goatherds; and those of Scindia, slaves. All these, and many other instances, took place within the last century. Promotions from among the common people to all the ranks of civil and military employment, short of sovereignty, are of daily occurrence under native states, and this keeps up the spirit of the people, and in that respect partially supplies the place of popular institutions. The free intercourse of the different ranks also keeps up a sort of circulation and diffusion of such knowledge and such sentiments as exist in the society. Under us [i.e. in Britain], on the contrary, the community is divided into two perfectly distinct and dissimilar bodies, of which the one is torpid and inactive, while all the sense and power seems concentrated in the other… " Source: Dow, Alexander, The History of Hindostan, vol. I, Today & Tomorrow’s Printers & Publishers, 1973, first published 1770., page 32.

[@NativeVsColonial]

In Hinduism, birth based caste is a superstitious system, however Varna was the original system, in Varna there was no upper or lower, people chose the work of which they are qualified for and according to Bhagavad Gita, anyone can be a Brahmin (Teacher, Scholar profession), Shatriya (Warrior, Army profession), Vaishya (Trader, Business profession), Shudra (Other social workers) based on as per their skills, knowledge, and capabilities: 🔹In Bhagavad Gita 4:13, Krishna says that he created different Varnas (Profession) on the basis of one's Karma (Activity) and Guna (Quality). 🔹Bhagavad Gita 5:18 "The truly learned, with the eyes of divine knowledge, see with equal vision a Brahmin, a cow, an elephant, a dog, and a dog-eater" 🔹Bhagavad Gita 9:29 "I am equally disposed to all living entities: there is neither friend nor foe to Me: but those who with living sentiments render divotional service unto Me, such persons are in Me and I am in them." 🔹Bhagavad Gita 18:41 "The duties of the Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras are distributed in accordance with their guṇas (quality) and not by birth. Caste is a Spanish and Portuguese word 'casta' which stands for 'Breed' or 'lineage'. During earlier times Caste use to be Varna (Profession) and based on merit and not merely by birth, I can give instances from the ancient times, where a so-called modern day "lower caste" moved to "upper caste", e.g. Guru Valmiki, Kabir Das was from a shudra family but became a brahmin based on merit, etc and btw Ravana, his younger brother Kumbhakarna all were Brahmins knowledgeable person from Northern India but because of their notorious activities all were punished by Rama (believed to be an OBC if we abide by today's caste categorization). Lastly, you have to understand the British motive behind imposing caste: The Caucasians (Europeans) created Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda, Africa, to divide and control the native population, and for this reason, the Rwanda Genocide occurred. The same attempts and inequalities Europeans also tried to create amongst Indians by separating Northern India and Southern India into "Aryans" VS "Dravidians" and further dividing Hinduism into 3,000 castes and 25,000 sub-castes. And also read about Herbert Hope Risley who created casteism, racism in Indian society by one's facial features and skin color, and Bishop Robert Caldwell who propagated the "Aryan Invasion" in Southern India to convert "Dravidians" into Christianity. Read the book 'Castes of Mind' by Nicholas Dirks

[@himanshusingh8414]

They are other form of supremists like white racism in West.

[@technext6272]

Because caste word comes from the roots of Portugese word Casta first used in 1569 and when Portugese came to India in 1628 they employed this word to divide people and spread hatred among us for political gains and facilated mass conversion. when the Iberians came to Asia and the Americas, they began classifying people by descent. The Indian society used to run on the basis of 'Gotram' and and their are ample examples around you to check that a Brahman and a person belonging to Sc/St category have the same gotram which makes them a family. So this caste system decided by birth and all that is a sham that has taken over to divide the people. One can also check the Bhagvad Geeta chapter 18 verse 41 where it is written that the duties of Brahman kshatriya vaishya shudra are distributed according to their qualities and not by birth. And in no scriptures Vedas Purana Upanishads it is written that varnas are based on birth. And also in chapter 18 verse 43 it is written that one's varna is decided by their own actions and capabilities and karma(also written in manusmriti adhyay 10). Caste system (based on birth) was never born in India and isn't mentioned in any of the scriptures

[@johndoejohnnydoe1477]

@@technext6272 caste is segregation based on genes. Brahmin is most intelligent No wonder ceo of google and Microsoft happen to be a Brahmin

[@colvjaiswal]

There is one important aspect about caste system has been awfully. In my opinion the caste system is directly and solely responsible for all the defeats, humiliation and destruction of this country. Because, The caste system debars the 2/3 rd. of population from learning art of war or use of weapons. It lays that except the Rajputs no one was to fight The Rajputs were responsible for protection of territory and all their subjects. This lead to a situation where when the invaders came the two third of population was just spectators. And gave birth to a belief that " Kou nrip hoi hme ka hani...cheri char na houb rani" It was felt that who ever may rule the Brahmin will continue to do puja, Vaishya will continue doing business and shudra will keep carrying out services. A nation so resigned and convinced that their fate will never change, they can become a king or rich businessmen slowly detoriated and fell easy pray to all invaders.

[@DipakBose-bq1vv]

The same system is still going on in every country. Soldiers have the responsibility to protect the country.

[@noname-oo7rd]

@@DipakBose-bq1vv abe dhakkan but everyone can become a soldier. It's not based on birth. Infact army sometimes forces citizens. Khajput chutiyo ne because of pride probably didn't let shudras and dalits prepare for war. Muslims and Christians dont face this problem. Ur denial and answer back shows how sick upper caste is

[@MAN-jz6qc]

@@noname-oo7rd Abe idiot kshatriyas had the responsibility to protect society not Rajputs, Rajputs and kshatriyas are two different things, Rajputs was a caste group which originated from different castes like jats,gujjars,Ahirs, and other similar castes during 11th century then after 15th century system got corrupted and it got based on lineage, so actually Rajputs are not even original kshatriyas because some Rajputs even came from lower caste such as kacchawahas, but you are an idiot you are confusing kshatriyas with Rajputs.

[@MAN-jz6qc]

@@noname-oo7rd lol I know caste system is bad and needs to be removed but I still think Varna system is good option, it was based on karma not birth, otherwise I endorse and agree and what you said above.

[@vinodmm6681]

The Upanishads are the highest authority on what Hinduism is. It doesn't mention the caste system we follow. Upanishads proclaim one God that is Brahman and all other life forms originated from Brahman and each life form has a part of Brahman in them called Atman. But due to ignorance the individuals are not able to realise this truth that they are part of Brahman. Once the darkness or ignorance is removed, the individuals can realise they are derivatives of Brahman itself. This is what the rishis realized in their deep meditation- i.e Aham Brahmasmi meaning I am Brahman. If each individual is derived from Brahman, obviously the whole world is one family- Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam! It's not very difficult to understand. But the so called priests/ Brahmins distorted this truth and devised caste system to for selfish reason. They degenerated the beautiful Sanathana Dharma for selfish reason and this resulted in the decline and conquer of India . It's high time we bring the truths of Sanathana Dharma, where the only merit is goodness.

[@tushkoli]

Please don't glorify caste system. It might be working in the past, but we do not need it now. We as a country have come far away from it, at a very heavy price. We must make an attempt to practice and protect our constitutional rights as far as possible to raise the standards of our people - physically, mentally, intellectually and spiritually! Never again shall we treat people shabbily, just because they are born in certain circumstances!

[@nikkukumari5132]

No dude it still happen in india.

[@raushanpathak4015]

nikku reservation is the cause of existing cast system now

[@nikkukumari5132]

@@raushanpathak4015 no dude actually reservation based upon caste discrimination.if we kill caste discrimination in our society then reservation will die naturally.

[@MohitSharma-cy4rv]

@@nikkukumari5132 you are obviously a lower caste person

[@nikkukumari5132]

@@MohitSharma-cy4rv sadar charanaspars apko🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️

[@r.kfilms3395]

क्या ये नहीं हो सकता कि सिस्टम से जाति का कॉलम को ही हटा देना चाहिए और किसी का भी प्रमाण पत्र नहीं देना चाहिए धर्म के कॉलम में सिर्फ भारतीय लिखना चाहिए

[@drsurendrabouddh4828]

And those are thousands of year deprived from everything..... You will not uplift for their development and dignified life?

[@tulsiramsonawane8023]

"भारतीय" राष्ट्रीयता Nationality

[@dodololo5586]

han bhai aisa hi br ambedkar ne socha tha aur lo ooper se chamatkar ho gya . roj bhagwan ki pooja karte raho aur chamatkar ho jayega

[@ayushmandhanrajpurohit8998]

सुदर्शन जी को सुनकर बहुत अच्छा लगा लगा एक महान इतिहासकार को सुन रहा हू।

[@bhartiharikant]

Baat Keval column bharne tak hi nahi hai sir.

[@amolbachhav367]

For people like Rao and Sinha - Caste system is very good system, but reservation is worst system. 😂😂😂😂

[@indrapratap9167]

Haa jis se jisko fayda vo Good system aur reservation se koi fayda nhi isliye wrong system

[@colvjaiswal]

it is shame to have this person as chairman of ICHR. He is not only confused but ignorant of facts and history. He has miserably failed to give any evidence of history and facts in support of his perception and writing. He will seriously damage the reputation, dignity and reputation of the chair he holds.

[@arpantellyou7971]

Cast system is biggest threaten to india...We should remove cast from name and System...

[@cool00blue]

Remove caste ... without caste there is no caste system .

[@dr.harishkumarkhatri2149]

You want to remove caste system and you're yourself presenting with caste. First remove your caste with your name then give lecture to others.

[@StopFear]

@@dr.harishkumarkhatri2149 Is that supposed to be a valid response to Arpan Patel? Do you realize how what you wrote is self contradictory and immoral? You are suggesting HE must change his name. WHY? Because you suggest that other people hear his name and treat him because of the caste the name is associated with. BUT WHY should HE be changing his name? Other people are obligated to not associate people's names with any caste and they must treat everyone equally as India's constitution requires. Are you also going to say the the people in the lowest untouchable case also simply have to "change their name?" How is a victim supposed to be responsible to change their name? It is the people who love the caste system who are obligated to stop discriminating.

[@dr.harishkumarkhatri2149]

Why would I suggest you to change your name. You are against Caste System and you are yourself mention caste with your name. That's why I wrote that. No where I wrote that I'm against caste system and for your kind information this is my mail id. Otherwise my name is Harish Kumar on every record. Hope you would satisfy now.

[@shantarambhosle553]

If Ram was purshotam and also Holy Spirit then he is not believed Sitamai but by listening of other how He doubted her and how killed Sambuka by following caste system

[@saivishwakarma1983]

it's my privilege to have Vishwa Mohan Jha sir as my mentor..great historian..

[@datsrohan]

Does he have written on history would love to read it. Or Any online class of him.

[@shishirkumar4932]

excellent debate. this is how a debate should be.

[@data_stats]

Correct

[@tingneihatkuki8337]

This is such a beautiful form of debate and discussion. We are definitely missing these kind of well mannered conversation.

[@swapniljadhav4070]

Caste system is the shame of India.and we all have to fight against it.and firstly we have to start it with our ownself .

[@adistalk1146]

This is 1st debates i see in peaceful nd informative

[@prashantmaurya5151]

😂😂😂 apne to what lga di.." कौन से काल में वर्ण व्वस्था अच्छा काम कर रही थी

[@raviard649]

Chanderbhan parshad aap keya dusare parmatma ne banaye the Jo tumhe padne ka adikaar hai Jo dalit ko nhi tha jawaab dijiye

[@DeepakJha-lt9ud]

@@raviard649 are Bhai Tu Ramayana Dekh usme tujhe pata lagega dalit padhta v tha or Brahmin, Rajput ke sath gurukul me padhte bhi the..or raja bhi the..

[@ishx_03]

@@DeepakJha-lt9ud that's a TV show

[@firstnamelastname1687]

@@DeepakJha-lt9ud Asli ramayan me nahi hain, Ramanand sagar wala ramayan mat dekho. South indians bandar aur bhalu hain ramayana me.

[@kaptaan_97]

Jaati matlab janm Varna matlab pratibha, kushalta It is clearly return in Indica by megasthenes was that their were non-discriminationat all in rig vedic era and and discrimination started when cast is imposed on the people by Britishers and Jawaharlal Nehru. Megasthenes also said that anyone change change his varna according to his choice.

[@songsforrefreshmentofmind1221]

सुदर्शन राव जी को सुन के नहीं लगा कि किसी ईतिहासकार को सुन रहा हुँ। एसी तथ्यहीन बातें जो बलाग में उन्हों ने कही है कोई रोड छाप भी नहीं करता ।उस के पास भी कूतर्क होते हैं।

[@ssursi3809]

तथ्यहीन बातें no, four varan not man made.

[@ayushmandhanrajpurohit8998]

सुदर्शन जी को सुनकर बहुत अच्छा लगा लगा एक महान इतिहासकार को सुन रहा हू।

[@indrajeetdas8565]

jab koi sudra ye bate bolta to kuch relevant hota

[@fazalahmed2112]

songs for refreshment of mind b

[@SKNayak-gl4xt]

@@ayushmandhanrajpurohit8998 phir toh koi history nahi aapko Nancy drew ki novels padhni chahye. Wahi kalpanik batein achi lagengi !!

[@kamtaprasadraj3839]

दुनिया के सबसे ज्यादा शिक्षित व्यक्तियों मे से एक बाबा साहब डा.भीमराव अंबेडकर को गुरु नहीं बना सकते,, पर जाति की बजह से अपमानित जरूर कर सकते हैं। भारत मे जाति व्यवस्था का इससे बुरा उदाहरण दुनिया मे कहीं नहीं मिलेगा।

[@SandeepVerma-bf1ry]

sahi kaha

[@nitinKumar-sy2ee]

Bbot hi sahi bola

[@aryakjsaaga2520]

GURU TOH HAI HI LEKEEN UNHE KIDNAP KAR EK KHAS TABKA KAR LIYA THAPPA LAGA LIYA

[@tejpalkaranrathore7646]

Kamtaprasad Raj आप ने गलत बात की है मेवाड़ की महारानी मीराबाई ने भगवान श्री कृष्ण जी की प्रिय भक्त थीं पर उन्हें सच्चे गुरु की खोज थी तब उन्हें पता चला कि सन्त रविदास जी बड़े सन्त थे तब मीराबाई ने अपना गुरु बनाया इसी तरह मारवाड़ मतलब राजस्थान के जोधपुर के पास बालोतरा उसके पास मालानी के राजा मल्लीनाथ जी उनकी पत्नी ने अपना गुरु सन्त धारू जी मेघवाल थे इसी तरह एक उदाहरण भिष्मपिताह ने प्रतिज्ञा ली थी उसके पीछे कारण था अपने पिता की शादी करवानी थी वो लड़की मच्छ कन्या थी केवट की पुत्री और शुद्र वर्ण को पढ़ाई का अधिकार नहीं था तो ऋषि वाल्मीकि जी ने संस्कृत में रामायण कैसे लिखी और ऋषि एतराये जी ने 16सस्कार कैसे लिखें उनको पढ़ने का अधिकार नहीं था तो ऐसे हजारों उदाहरण प्राचीन समय का है पर 3000हजार साल में कम उदाहरण मिलेंगे उस समय में उस समय भारत देश में भेदभाव बढ़ा हुआ था अत्यचार अधिक था उसके बाद भगवान बुद्ध ने जन्म लिया नेपाल में लुंबिनी राज्य में शाक्य वंश में राजा के घर में उसके बाद का इतिहास सभी जानते है

[@spa8596]

@@arpitchauhan8225 ji... But ambedkar ne esa kabhi nhi kahan ki iss reservation ko 200-300 salon tk chalana h... Ye hmari sari govts. Ki nakamyabi & votebank ki rajniti ki vjh se ab tk h....

[@sknagesh2006]

In the panel discussions, Mr. Y Sudarshan Rao did not seem confident on his view-point. Anyway ....

[@nikhilabhishek2]

Surendra Nagesh sahi kaha jhuth ke pair nhi hote

[@tubester4567]

India needs to end the caste system. Make it illegal.

[@thevloglife5899]

@@tubester4567 i want to end it too.. Standing in 2024 elections from MP..nirdaliye Motto - end a casteism in India. Replace surname with last 3 digits of aadhar card. If u support me plz vote or if u want to make a party contact me.

[@nishantnimish7825]

@@thevloglife5899 caste system is important

[@PlatypusPerry-]

@@nishantnimish7825 so are reservation based on caste system

[@RajendraSingh-dq3gb]

रविश जी आप की जैसी पत्रकारिता किसी की न सुनी न देखी, आप को दिल मेरा परणाम।

[@pramodpasi9154]

जयहिंद जय संविधान दोस्तों जो लोग अंधविश्वास में विश्वास रखते हैं वो ही इसतरह की बात करते नजर आते हैं चेयरमैन राव आप पुनरजन्म जैसी चमत्कार आपके साथ जरूर होगा 😁😁😁😁😁

[@shivam-yo5ie]

Sahi kaha ekdum

[@user-ru6ob9pk8m]

Team NDTV team what rumours about ndtv worried At any cost we want Ravish & ndtv

[@VirendraKumar-qz6xs]

It’s a Racism. Besides Shudras, untouchables and tribals are more sufferers in Hindu society.

[@virtualmaza513]

There are no such thing like shudras , untouchables in India. It's in the mind of people . How can person be proud or pity on himself just because of caste.

[@aloksen626]

This is the problem with you people, you guys are so deep into victimhood that it stunts your ability to grow and overcome this oppression and become stronger. Unless this happens you are bound to stay the same.

[@garyfreeman4283]

@@aloksen626 Why don't you change names and show how it's done?

[@optimusprime5199]

@@virtualmaza513 Yes, it's in minds of people that's why there are still such thing as shudra and untouchables.

[@manjunathareddy6548]

Its all created by British education. Why would you expect others to touch you first of all? Respect yourself man. Why do you want others to acknowledge. Do your karma and be happy

[@sambhumishra7045]

In valmiki Ramayan, it is not mentioned that Sri Ram took fruits tested by Savari.

[@rutvikpatel1950]

Sambit patra: aaise kon debate karta hai..

[@vaibhavsingh9137]

VERY NICE TOPIC CHOOSED.....GLAD THAT RAVISH SIR THOUGHT OF DOING THIS.

[@vinodsarode8368]

He is the wrong man to be chairman of ICHR due to one single point that he is a completerly confused person .

[@sivaprakash7351]

Can anyone help me where can i find English subtitles for this video

[@abhishekvarma2119]

Bahut heavy debate tha..... Aadha to sar k upar se chala Gaya. Lekin fir se sununga aur samjhunga.....👌👌👌👌

[@samajikgyan-sudha8552]

Very good topic for discussion! Thanks to Raveesh ji for selecting the topic. Western interpretation cannot explain or understand this concept.

[@DevendraKumar-kj9ev]

Mr Rao must stdy Dr Ambedkar literature. He is suffering with complexity.and creating controversy. He is not atrue historian.

[@krishnarao7329]

Even Dr. Ambedkar is not an historian.

[@aruneshkumar2522]

Exact

[@aruneshkumar2522]

He was only mentally week because of he did feel untouchable castee himself, he did not proud of him that he is untouchable castee but not agyani so he felt mentally week and by the way of christianity he decided to make indian new const

[@shivam-yo5ie]

Yes you are absolutely right!

[@tussudas]

What a man.. What a journalist.. Hats off ravish kumar

[@TheDiamond1001]

is there a way i can get this in english subtitle ??plzz anyone ??

[@sagar8061]

The caste system is the curse of India. And still, it ruins everyone's life

[@dr.harishkumarkhatri2149]

Remove your caste with your name. If your want all this.

[@jimmatrix7244]

You have not understood it fully. The word "caste" itself is a foreign word.

[@biswajeetsahu4152]

@@jimmatrix7244 who cares Aslong it affects people.

[@ravi-gx2qc2qz4r]

Caste system is in every country but it is not groped like it is grouped in India and the peoples of different castes were discriminated. This is the only difference between India and other countries but unfortunately it is represented in such a way that it has created a huge problem

[@anveshkitti2835]

@@ravi-gx2qc2qz4r can you show me the caste system examples in other countries... go to any crime or jobs or politics or any social structure it is still based on manu...

[@pramodnarwade9151]

Very brave of Y. Sudarshan. He took everything, realised he was wrong and didn't throw any tantrums. I do disagree with his opinion though.

[@NERVIKRAMA]

SBI ka new account open karte samay jo form fill kiya jata hn usme cast bhi fill karna hota hn. Kya yah cast ko badava dena nhi hn?

[@bakkasur9614]

Historians should be responsible for their work..... They should hv integrity....

[@KAMLESHKUMAR-mv7su]

Nice topic this topic is very interesting, Is Rao historian prof h I can't believe because he is not describing his blog. Good job Ravish Sir.....🙏🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳

[@AdityaKadamMechanical]

Bhagavad Gita: 4.13 चातुर्वर्ण्यं मया सृष्टं गुणकर्मविभागश: | तस्य कर्तारमपि मां विद्ध्यकर्तारमव्ययम् || Translation The four categories of occupations were created by me according to people’s qualities and activities. Although I am the creator of this system, know me to be the non-doer and eternal. Current system on the basis of birth is dangerous.

[@ashokvijay1144]

It means they were created by GOD .. so a person is made shudra or Brahmin by god meaning born .. what was the ceremony which decided who was shudra or Brahmin after a certain age of karmas

[@priyaa0235]

Ravish ji aapka ye time prime ya aapka bolna Ek drug ki tarah hai jitna dekho or suno or dekhne ka sunne ka Mann hota hai...... U knw u r unique and most sensible and straight forward person I like uuuuuuu

[@Pradeep-ve5os]

I love to have this drug... Drug which clears my mind.. which makes the whole world view clear.... No Fakeness , only truth

[@SukhchainSingh-ob3yh]

Vishwamohan jha’s views are best😊

[@yogeshkumarleuva4147]

Sukhchain Singh Vishwamohan jha's Sir best History Professor in India.

[@anuragpinku88]

well said brother

[@stocktrader14]

No one is better than Ravish... excellent analysis, brilliant description and best facts

[@bhoorelal7812]

शूद्रों को ये कथित महानों ने संस्कारों और शिक्षा-ज्ञान से वंचित क्यों रखा..?

[@alpeshmittal3779]

No body liked competition , meritocracy and quality that comes with it. Thats why.

[@jackbond4453]

Mr Rao should study the Buddha period. Bhudhism cam as a revolution against the Brahmin ritualistic exploitation and caste system.

[@shashwatanand5397]

Brahmins created Buddhism

[@ex009adityarajsingh2]

@@shashwatanand5397 Brahmins created buddhism 🤣🤣🤣 joke of the year

[@sanilyadav1450]

@@ex009adityarajsingh2 75% Buddhas disciples were brahmins.

[@sanilyadav1450]

*Much of the Buddhism is so much exaggerated.But most of the Buddhas critic of brahmins instead he redefined who should be brahmin? Brahmin by talent not by birth. Beside he never was against anyone he reformed very much. At time of Buddha Caste heirarchy was not so much at its lowest level. It became worst later on. Read history fact base.*

[@shahidakhter180]

After giving example of Ram it’s not a historical discussion because Ram is a Mythological figure rather a historical figure

[@ashishkumar-hk4oq]

Brave statement....ofc it's mythological

[@stxfdt1240]

No he is real

[@nitinawachar2938]

Lord Buddha strongly opposed castiesm

[@yatharthagrawal1416]

Kha likha he?

[@rajeevkamra9120]

@@yatharthagrawal1416 लिखने का क्या ......उन्हीने सबसे पहले हिंदू धर्म के वर्ण व्यवस्था को खुली चुनौती देकर ज्ञान का दरवाजा अछूत, वैश्या , खुनी , डकैत, हर जाती के इन्सान को खुला किया ,समानता का संदेश दिया जो हिंदू धर्म मे नही था क्यूकी हिंदू धर्म का बेस असामानता थी ....तो उन्होने जातिगत भेदभाव को खुली चुनौती दि तो थी

[@yatharthagrawal1416]

@@rajeevkamra9120 jhuth fail rahe he aap

[@rajeevkamra9120]

@@yatharthagrawal1416 आप बुद्ध धर्म के बारे मे ज्यादा जानते होंगे. कितने 'किताब पढे हमे भी बाताओ

[@soulbabashiv5889]

@@yatharthagrawal1416 br Ambedkar ke books pado

[@vjj6258]

I agree with Y sudarshan Rao 'By Birth Everyone is Shudra' this is is true! There was never term called 'Jaathi' it was always 'Varna' .. it is nothing type, color or practise one who adopts, being born as Shudra a human has right to choose his path, he can become a Warrior(Kshatriya), do a skillfull job (Vyshya), reach divine eternity(Brahmin). A shudra can choose himself to be Shudra too (non skilled person). In short we can be anyone, this caste is created by Brahmin just to distinguish themselves and to keep them at top of rank. I agree our modern day has misinterpreted caste system.

[@MaximBardin]

Why would you type the title and description in English when the content is in Hindu WITHOUT subtitles?

[@mohinderkumar7298]

Kashmiri Pandits have culture of eating cow beef even today. In 20133 my village survey in Kashmir showed Pandits served cow meat to muslim guests in marriage function.

[@imsarojkumar14]

Sare karmkand gupt kal me hua modikal jaisa

[@shyamakantyadav2424]

He is actual a historian?????

[@samuraijack2611]

Part 2 link?.,anyone?

[@arena1316]

Sudershan Raoji please would you be kind enough to tell us whether caste system was existing before Verna system or vice versa. if there were castes earlier than Verna system then what is the exact history behind it and how they developed into upper and lower castes. Whether they were the outcome of the economic conditions and the then existing production methods and technologies as well as the differences in human capabilities.

[@sandysarker]

watching it in 2019. this man has been a legend, we didn't recognise him till the 2016 JNU incident. Bravo Ravish ji.

[@nishantnimish7825]

Molvi

[@technext6272]

Jnu ke jihadi jo ho tum 😂 chutiye saale ibarians ne birth based casta system banaya gunas based varna system se aur aaye chale missionary

[@dr.sujeetk.mritunjay8471]

November 2023

[@Rajeevkumar85]

Aarakshan khatam krna hai to sabse pahle jaat-paat khatam kro, Desh ke har nagrik ko saman rup se jamin ka batwara kr do, desh ka hr wo nagrik jo padha-likha ho or ved puran padha ho ya padhne ki ichha ho use v moka do or mandir me us nagrik ko v pujari banne ka moka do. agar wo SC st cast ka ho or fir v ved padh sakta ho. sanskrit padh sakta ho to use v sankracharya ya fir koi bada mahant bnne ka moka do. jaat- paat khatam kro, bhed-bhav khatam kro. sabko barabar bhago me jamin ka batwara kro. uske baad aarakshan khatam krne ki baat krna !...

[@PremSingh-qx9zc]

भाई जब तक भूतकाल को पकडे रखोगे तो आप वर्तमान और भविष्य का कुछ भी सोच नहीं सकते और न ही आप समझ सकते हो

[@PremSingh-qx9zc]

चींटी दो तरह की होती हैं एक लाल और दूसरी काली ऐसे ही हमारे भारत के नेता हैं? एक आप का अनाज खाती है और एक आपका जिसम ........?अब आपको समझना है के आप् को किसे चुनना है .....?

[@biebersucks27]

Agree with everything except land re distribution

[@technext6272]

caste word comes from the roots of Portugese word Casta first used in 1569 and when Portugese came to India in 1628 they employed this word to divide people and spread hatred among us for political gains and facilated mass conversion. when the Iberians came to Asia and the Americas, they began classifying people by descent. The Indian society used to run on the basis of 'Gotram' and and their are ample examples around you to check that a Brahman and a person belonging to Sc/St category have the same gotram which makes them a family. So this caste system decided by birth and all that is a sham that has taken over to divide the people. One can also check the Bhagvad Geeta chapter 18 verse 41 where it is written that the duties of Brahman kshatriya vaishya shudra are distributed according to their qualities and not by birth. And in no scriptures Vedas Purana Upanishads it is written that varnas are based on birth. And also in chapter 18 verse 43 it is written that one's varna is decided by their own actions and capabilities and karma(also written in manusmriti adhyay 10). Caste system (based on birth) was never born in India and isn't mentioned in any of the scriptures. Being woke is your problem , woke people like ravish and all comments are also responsible for breaking india forces

[@rashidrazakhan9153]

Bro caste in Hindi called jati, Nirlamba upnishad had critisized caste system. Bro because society was divided into jati, portugese used the words caste

[@technext6272]

@@rashidrazakhan9153 jaati is not used in any scriptures. Jaati means breed which is used for type of animal , plants , etc. Scriptures, Upanishads had Varna system which was based on gunas. Iberians , britishers are the ones who was creating casta around the world for rasism and proving their superiority.

[@henriquefigueiral7771]

Did anyone nows the name, of the participants?

[@wilddoggamechanger7591]

I am indian, but i am feeling very shameful to say i am indian because of caste system in india. this caste system came from illiterate people in india. I am failed in love because of i am low caste, My girlfriend has to leave me since it may shame her family because of i am low caste. I Loved her very much since two years but she has caste feeling she leaves me from then. In my day to day life I experience discrimination, my close friend also not interest to talk with me, from when he knows i am a low caste person. high caste people feeling that, they are gods, kings rulers of india. what is your proud? how can you judge these is low caste people and how can u judge these are untouchable persons. who gives this rights to you all? see in this world who ever born they have equal rights to live there own fashion, but how high caste people in india treat some ones are untouchable person. this is bad indian culture. i am very shameful to say i am indian. i ask question to you all who ever feels that we are high caste.... 1) what is caste ? (ans: it's just a name ) 2) why caste system only appears in india? (ans: because illiterate people and they ego) 3) which god tolds you someones are untouchable person? (ans: no one told, it just man maded virus) 4) how did you consider as low caste peoples are servents? you illiterate high caste people wake up this is 2015 not 1800's. who ever has caste feelings just go and die. In this world each and everyone has a soul just respect that soul. respects the person, don't respect the names like caste.

[@AmirKhan-jv7uw]

+mahesh sam IF YOU HAVE MONEY THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT CAST AFTER THAT>>>>lol

[@wilddoggamechanger7591]

we r low caste that's why still middle class condition...

[@preetidas9511]

@Suraya Khan But Islam has failed in India! Even muslims here practice caste. If the message of Islam is all humans are equal in the eyes of god then why muslims here practice caste? Why there are 'dalit' muslims? A religion is known by its followers and in this case Indian islamic followers are doing the exact opposite of what your phrophet said. Your prophet proved weak, your god's message proved weak. Islam couldn't stand the test of social evil that is caste system. The caste system infected Islam like cancer. Same goes for christianity and sikhism.

[@Jothi555]

Read about Brahmins how occupied India? Learn who are they

[@FollowersOfPrabhupada]

Mr. Rao, you should quote Srimad BhagvadGita... "Caturvarnam Maya Srishtim GUNA KARMA VIBHAGASA". 4 Varans comes from Guna - qualities and Karma- Activities. By birth everybody is sudra.. means in ignorance.. based on the aptitude of the individuals they become one caste or other.

[@chiragmoily5802]

+Ram Nangunoori whom are you teaching this things. Irrelevant and ignorant people.

[@DipakBose-bq1vv]

+Ram Nangunoori "By birth everybody is sudra" Bhagwat Gita or Rig Veda which describes the Varnas never said that. Varna system is not caste.

[@seemana26]

Bhagvad geeta was written after Buddha periods hence it talks about equality, (Buddhism was a dominant religion) Manusmriti was a civil code, how society should function , hence they are discussing manusmriti The origination of Varna system is in Hindu religion where your religion states everyone is born unequal ..now you get the logic? Don't bring Bhagvad geeta every time, that wasn't civil code, or eternal laws, Everyone knows Bhagvad geeta has a influence of Buddhism

[@FollowersOfPrabhupada]

Seemana Mahale It is stated in the Skanda Purana, 'kalau sudra sambhavah' - in Kali-yuga everyone is basically a sudra. It is only by brahminical qualifications and acceptance of panca-samskara diksa from Sri Guru that one can actually attain the status of a brahmana in the age of Kali. Therefore, the Mahabharata states: na yonir napi samskaro na srutam na ca santatih karanani dvijatvasya vrttam eva tu karanam "Neither birth, nor samskaras, nor learning, nor progeny are the qualifications to be a brahmana. Only brahminical conduct is the basis for brahminical status." (Anusasana-parva 143.50)

[@gunzogunzo6959]

Just shut up. Who the hell are you to judge the people? B.Gita teaches that these are "innate" qualities (read it as when born) and that it comes from previous birth. This is the cruelty. People had simply no fighting chance at all. Whatever you wrote is from a casteist's manual and Krishna (and you) are the casteists apologists.

[@anilrao5999]

रवीश जी मैं बहुत सारे मुद्दों पर आप से सहमत नही होता हूँ, फिर भी आप मेरे पसंदीदा पत्रकार है। आप बिना चेहरे का भाव बदले एक सांस में सरल हिंदी में क्रमवार एक के बाद एक तथ्य रखते चले जाते है, ये आपकी बहुत बड़ी विशेषता है।

[@akhilchandra1876]

THIS IS HOW A DEBATE SHOULD BE CONDUCTED. THIS IS HOW A GUEST SHOULD BE RESPECTED REGARDLESS OF THEIR VIEW POINT. I HOPE THE SO CALLED JOURNALISTS OF 2020 SEE AND LEARN FROM THIS.

[@eatright131]

New generation should abolish cast system.give your Intro by your initial name only.go for more and more intercast and out of religion marriages.visit regularly other's religious places.

[@Happiness.789]

Even second and third generation Americans born Indian do follow caste system rigidly. So no hope.

[@sameeryadav4333]

in ancient time it was not caste system it was varna system

[@ex009adityarajsingh2]

@@sameeryadav4333 doesn't matter anything which depends on birth must be removed

[@vinodukey6049]

I hate this attitude , every one is trying to present their religion the best why should you tell other to accept your religion. Let them which they want to follow .we should tell every human just follow humanity .keep your religion at home.long live humanity

[@yogimoviemaniac]

You are the only one i have found here who is not talking bullshit.

[@darali568]

True

[@rupamchettry2700]

Ye hui na TV ka debate, nailed it....

[@dhananjoymistri5066]

রবীশ বাবু আপনি সর্বদা সত্য অনুধাবন করার চেষ্টা করেছেন । ধন্যবাদ জানাই

[@viswaghosh1]

Rao answers exactly like the Republicans - "my opinion" has no place in scientific research. Rao needs to present evidence to show that it worked well. Also present counter evidences and explain why we should disregard those counter evidences.

[@chiragsharma5050]

Why because he is saying their is no castism In ancient time .

[@chiragsharma5050]

He was a director of ihrc.which is top most position for historical research

[@manmeetkaur05]

Ravish ji caste system ke lye smajshastri bulao, historian nahin. Iske plys minus wahi bataynge. We at our young age wanted to do away with caste names thinking that this the only way we can bring people out of this unjustified hierarchical system. But people labelled us what not. My daughter is still struggling to explain why she uses her first name and second name as the same. Its difficult to be out of this system.

[@ex009adityarajsingh2]

Galat iske basis pucho kya hai janamana kaise hai

[@mayursahariah5636]

To Ravish Kumar (NDTV and all the viewers) First and foremost, thank you a lot Mr. Ravish Kumar for indulging us in a healthy debate or I would prefer to say a healthy argument. I believe a person should have their space to put their beliefs in front of the world and with that I prefer a space where they can be questioned. You have successfully provided with a panel where I'd not reject or disgrace any opinion but think about each and every point forwarded by the literates and move on to make a self opinion. I believe this is the best way to forward towards a brighter and bigger future.. Regards.

[@raj-nz4bj]

Whether caste system was good or not. Really does it matter. What matters is, it should be finished by now.

[@korashortss]

Bygod, Ravish Kumar argument or journalism is just another level..... 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@DineshKumar-kz6tv]

Koi samjhayega ki asli me varnas system kya tha?

[@sarvajanhitaay]

There is far difference between rights and duty. So duty defines for people doesn't mean rights forbidden.

[@rajdhar327]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1395">23:15</a> Eklavya ka angutha katwana ek political decision tha. Kyonki Dronacharya kisi ko bhi Arjun se jyada kushal nahi banane dena chahate thaey.

[@biswajitdebbarma2672]

Pachhim Bharat se jhara khara bad bhab youtube main prasaron itna kio?

[@luciferking5933]

Bhakkk...... he was a "SUT-PUTRA" lower caste.. so he was denied... STOP misleading people. 😤😤😤

[@sanilyadav1450]

@Cheems Doge True....

[@lazarjosephc5915]

Not only misinterpreted but also mis utilised over the ages.

[@olivefash3603]

Ravish Sir, why no news channel are talking about India-Myanmar Border issue in Manipur... Is Manipur less important than Kashmir or Arunachal? I request you to kindly raise this issue through ur channel.

[@hundal2222]

The cast system, whether you call it Varuna or Jati, doesn't it come from Vedas itself ?

[@sameeryadav4333]

Varna system is good, but the caste system is bad. Varna system comes from vedas, not the cast system. They are two different things. The caste system says that lower castes are inferior and the work they have to do is by birth. Varna system says that all of them are equally important and is based on a person's skill and not by birth.

[@piariva9662]

So why practice what is already ancient?!?!

[@ShyamSunder-yk8zj]

Because India is full of dickheads😂😂

[@sunitachoudhary4502]

Mr.Rao has less knowledge on varna system and jati vyavastha.

[@sumitsingh7835]

things were and still are misinterpreted and twisted for one's own convenience, it is the case which is reprehensible,sad and deplorable

[@smrutibodhi3284]

wayyyyyy better than arnab.

[@bhim_warrior482]

Hiii....

[@YashuAdarsh]

For sure

[@abhilashb.9126]

Who else finds Mr chandarbhan sir cute?? I just watched him for whole of the debate. Loved his style too. Also reaction of ravish from 5.25 to 5.30 is priceless 😀

[@mangeshppatil]

Such zero knowledge ppl are being given position now a days.. We can imagine how bad days for institutions

[@BharatSingh-xp8jq]

Mr Rao is not honest to history and culture of85% indian people of sudra in thought he is the manubadi castiest person

[@broken_forever4435]

Who are these people... Even manusmriti give right to education to all including kshudras.... Manusmriti also says about varnas are defined by character and gunas. It never ever uttars the word jati.

[@PankajSingh-bp7wt]

आजकल कोई भी जाति का वयक्ति अपनी मर्जी से कोई भी कार्य चुन सकता है। जाति आज की राजनीति और मिडिया की जरूरत मात्र है

[@kamartaj3010]

Pankaj Singh sharm karo jhut mat bol.sewer me utro na fir uppercaste waha lowercaste hi kyu yaad ata h

[@wanderlustwanderer9258]

Shadi kar sakta h

[@dodololo5586]

but metality pehle ke log apne baccho me phir vo apne baccho me transfer kar rahe hain uska kya sir ji.

[@ganeshtarate7558]

पूजा पाठ नही कर सकता

[@SantoshKumar-uy2tn]

Your mind set is just Priggish castist person. U don,t want to know the situation of caste system in our socity. U just want skip to this issue and remain system as it is. Shame on it and help the socity to out from caste system so as to grow up of country and socity equalize.

[@pardeeptandon6730]

Cast system in India is a racist practice and should be legally banned in India. But many of our laws have an element of Cast in them.

[@irfanmanzoor1909]

I ws reading Swami Parthasarthy bfr watching this vdo and nw it just feels amazing to smhow understand this system they have in hinduism... As Ravish Kumar says tv debate b hona chahye... I wud say aisa debate hona chahye ❤

[@indicphilosopher8772]

Haan. Muslims me jo casteism hpta hai ashraf aur ajlaf wala uski bhi debate ho

[@RajendraSingh-dq3gb]

राकेश सिन्हा जी की बात से मैं सहमत हूँ।

[@sachinmajhi_]

Professor of University of Delhi (Arsd) (Atma ram sanatan dharma college)

[@anilkumar-gk7uj]

VishavaMohan jha have good humour communication skill knowledge👌

[@shashanktripathi3398]

Mr ravish should also make a report on dr ambedkar's view on Islam enshrined in his book "pakistan or partition of India" where dr ambedkar criticised Islam without mincing words. specially chapter 12 of that book.

[@user-wd6ou4xv9c]

I m watching in 2022 . Still like a fresh news

[@wasimshaikh1665]

Rakesh Sinha back then was a rational human being. Now he is just a BJP spoke person

[@ramprakashchowdhary4607]

No body knows about Ramayan before in 1573_77 AD as Tulsidas Dubey was translated into Hindi as he was insulted by his wife in presence of Sudra so he written against them.

[@sameeryadav4333]

Then who wrote valmiki Ramayana? You fool

[@ex009adityarajsingh2]

@@sameeryadav4333 there are 200 versions of ramayan not only 1 or2 second valmiki ramayan as historian say was written around 1st or 2 nd century and sanskrit itself is new because in ivc the sanskrit have not been found and the lipi is devanagri lipi which is around 9th century sanskrit granth cannot be written in anyother lipi dhamma lipi or kharosthi the oldest manuscript of veda itself is 1464 ad and is of devnagari lipi

[@sameeryadav4333]

@@ex009adityarajsingh2 Sabke apne apne views hote hain

[@ex009adityarajsingh2]

@@sameeryadav4333 ye views ka baat hi nai hai ye fact hai क्ष त्र ज्ञ ऋषि etc likhe hi nai jaa sakte hai try kar lijiye

[@AM-xu6sd]

Now the importance of truthful media has been felt

[@Mindfulnessthink]

Yeh... video....2019 mein...Kon Kon...dekh raha hai...??

[@slowturn5279]

I really think you have lost it. You do not understand the deference. And your hun hun is so irritating. Magsesay award . Hunhun.