Ned and Robert: a stormy relationship - livestream with Joe Magician

In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Game of Thrones, Westworld and more.
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[@magister343]

I think Robert calling Ned "more than brothers" mostly just indicates that he does not like Stannis or Renly very much.

[@Slechy_Lesh]

Or points to the particular bond people get with other soldiers in war. It gets complicated when that leads to romantic feelings though, which it seems to even in otherwise straight men - thinking of an essay I read about Tolkiens wartime experience

[@ThommyofThenn]

Bobby didn't particularly care for Stannis or Renly so its only natural that Ned wouldn't care about them much

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Robert peaked in high school

[@stephaniefromvirginia8744]

I just noticed today rewatching The Kingsroad when Ned angrily and confidently snaps back at Robert “but you can’t get your hands on this one can ya?” After Robert says he’ll kill every Targaryen he can get his hands on. I always assumed it was talking about Dany and Visery but the WAY he snaps back I think he means that Robert can’t get his hands on Jon. Ned loves Jon as his son knowing he is his nephew and Roberts hatred pissed Ned off in that short conversation.

[@a.j.stringfellow8989]

Stephanie Wise Love this as sort of a confirmation that Jon is a targ. Super early too

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Stephanie Wise whoa! Good catch!! You’re probably right!

[@littlechic0510]

Yep. I just rewatched this yesterday and noticed it right away.

[@Galvatronover]

No bed was also concerned for Cersei’s children even if he was concerned for Jon that doesn’t then imply he didn’t also care for Danny and viserys

[@D20AttackRolls]

I feel like men can have close and reverberating relationships and admire each other without being sexual or romantically involved. Just my thoughts on the whole Ned/Robert thing.

[@TheJohnnyf10]

I can think of a handful of my buddies where I simply had to admire things about them that were exceptional. And other guys voicing it referencing things about me. This is pretty spot on.

[@TheThezenith]

Yeah lads are pretty good at being like "hey bro your fuckin handsome bro" "yeahhhh brooooo"

[@ThommyofThenn]

Kinda I have a friend who is a "closer than a brother" and it's sometimes homoerotic but never in a serious "I wanna bang ya buddy" type way. He has a AFAB/woman fiance but that doesn't mean we don't send shirtless pics to each other just to "send some beefcake" or "admire our physiques"

[@TheTam0613]

I never picked up on the point that each was a semblance of each other's brothers!! I love it Joe!!

[@DSRJoker]

I don't think there was anything more going on with Ned and Robert then being friends. There's a line where Rober talks about his real brothers and how he never loved them, but Ned was the family Robert chose.

[@Slechy_Lesh]

Yeah that's Robert, though it's not proof. And Ned is different, as they mention in the video

[@WarriorGirl_113]

Robert... I would have to say that Robert's sadness derives from watching his parents die and he couldn't save them as well as his loss of Lianna's death

[@stephaniecasey9100]

I'm late to this video, but I really enjoyed it. I think that Robert's quote "more than brothers" has to do with the fact that he didn't have a close relationship with his own brothers. I think that Ned's description of Robert's appearance in his first POV chapter are through the eyes of someone who hasn't seen their friend in 9 years and the difference is shocking. Joe's comparison of the similarities between Robert and Brandon, and Ned and Stannis is a really good one. I hadn't made that connection, but as soon as he mentioned it, I completely saw it. Although I think that the Baratheons were more extreme versions of each personality. I don't think that Ned was asexual, just rare in that he didn't think about sex all the time, like a lot of the men in the books. He and Cat obviously shared a bed more often than not which isn't common for this world amongst those with arranged marriages.

[@Go-Dawgs]

I think this is silly about Ned "loving" Robert. I have heard guys talk about their "wing man" to many times. For Ned to think Robert was a maiden's dream just means he felt Robert would get the girls to flock to him & Ned felt second best looking always. Even with his brother Brandon he felt not great enough to get women's attention. Ned was not gay, Robert was not gay. George RR did easily tell us who were.

[@larryhoyt5834]

Exactly, if anything Ned feels inadequate compared to Robert and is the type of guy to think about it bc he's very introspective.

[@Slechy_Lesh]

Keep taking your copium. Gay people exist, now and in the past

[@belalsweepe1063]

Nice collaboration! Always good, fun, original or amazing new theories with Joe Magician in the house!! Ned+Robert=Jon hahah lol

[@YourLastGreatkNight]

Just watched the live stream one of the best ones yet. Keep up the great work fellas. However, I found it interesting on one of the early topics of Robert saying they are more then brothers. I think he says that because he has a very distorted view of brotherhood. He didn’t love/like his brothers, but he loved Ned so to him that made them more the just brothers.

[@larryhoyt5834]

That's ridiculous about Ned being gay. More than brothers refers to the fact that you can't choose your brothers. You're stuck with what your family gives you. Friends you choose. Therefore if you have good friends who you trust like family you say you're closer than brothers.

[@lostcinema5189]

People like you are ridicolous

[@tradzz5313]

No he’s not ridiculous. They were children who grew up together, were supposed to be family (brother in laws), they fought wars together. That creates a prettttyyyy strong bond between two people. It doesn’t mean they’re gay, just that they’ve been through hell and back together.

[@heatherd1583]

Awesome point that they Ned and Robert are similar to each other’s brothers.

[@JCftwZOMFGwtf]

If Robert dreams of killing Rhagar in his dreams, does this count as Robert having dragon dreams?

[@dangerouslycaffeinated6688]

In response to some comments, I think it's fine if you see Robert and Ned as close friends rather then lovers, that reading of the text is completely valid and informed by your experiences. But just keep in mind, other people are informed by different experiences. That's okay too.

[@Pomshka]

I've always thought how extremely lucky Nedd was that Baby John Snow was a dark haired/eyed baby and not blonde/violet eyed. Do you think Nedd would have glamoured him or dyed his hair IF he had been those colours? Surely even Robert would have put two and two together and realized?

[@moanamayer]

It’s just more probable for Jon to have the characteristics of a Stark because the Stark look is overall just darker and therefore more likely to be dominant over the Targaryen genes.

[@annaarwen4345]

It would probably add fuel to the Ned+Ashara rumours

[@FishBoneD14]

Moana Mayer Except Robert couldn’t apply that logic to his own kids so he actually may have bought it.

[@littlechic0510]

@@moanamayer genes don't work that way in this world. The children typically look like the father. Or should at least resemble his side of the family. Like Sansa having red hair is acceptable because that's a trait of a true northerner. If she had blonde hair people would begin to question things. Jon really should have had blonde hair at the least. Or at least pale eyes. Something!

[@lostcinema5189]

Ned s children look like Tully's. Jon look like a Stark because he is Ned and Asharas Son. Agon the son of Lyanna have blond hair

[@onewithnoname1818]

Great stream, sorry I missed it. Please have Joe Magician on again 😁

[@benjaminodonnell258]

I agree that, in the show, Jaime had a moment when he was pleased to discover that Ned was actually quite good, and then another moment of slight worry when he realised Ned was actually very good and that Jaime would have to take this fight seriously. I interpreted that as being the result of Ned being the absolute opposite of "flashy" as a fighter. He fought like a working soldier, with no clever tricks or flourishes - someone like that would be very easy to underestimate for a knight who'd grown up around the most famous and flashy knights of the age and associated a "workmanlike" style with the sort of soldiers and mercenaries he usually carved though like a knife through butter. (Note Jaime had a similar moment with Brienne when he commented that she had no "grace", but was actually very, very good.)

[@brettsgamingtavern7429]

Ned even states they dont do tournies in the north. When they fight, its to kill, in the North.

[@marcglenn]

Very simple explanation for the line more the brothers. Ned had brothers whom he’s not particularly close with, notice I said close with not hate, because it’s clear that Ned loved his brothers, but he wasn’t close with them, as in they were not friends. Now considering that, Ned made a bond with another man whom wasn’t blood, but they were true friends, then he would think of his friend as more then a brother because his relationship with his actual brothers, was not as close, which happens to a lot people with siblings.

[@stephaniepeer3787]

Hi guys! Great stream - I'm sorry I missed it live. One thing I wondered when listening was about Robert's obsession with Lyanna - I wonder if part of the reason for his obsession was because he hated his current life and he saw in Lyanna not only his 'dream woman', but also a means to get his dream life? Like maybe his obsession with his lost love was also connected with his lost life?

[@victoriasantoro6692]

Nice work Robert ..I think Robert could have defeat the Mountain in a great fight if he was younger than that we see in the show back in season 1 ....He could have crushed Mountains face with his epic VS hammer as he did with Rhaegar on the Trident Battle.

[@angelacarvalho7716]

Once again, a Wonderful livestream! Congratulations Robert on the subject, on the fantastic guest, and your comments and ideas!

[@jamesaaron7211]

To me the ‘more than brothers’ comment is easily explained; Robert said it, not Ned...and Robert doesn’t particularly like his brothers. Well, no, I think he’s pretty cool with Renly, just a lot older so it’s more like a quasi-parental relationship. But he doesn’t seem to enjoy Stannis at all...and I mean, is that surprising at all? So Robert just means that, compared with his own filial relationships, Ned and he are much closer.

[@Raeanne936]

Nicely done. Enjoyed it. Robert and Joe love both your channels. This has became such a wide and wonderful group. Love David’s and Kyle, Gemma, Helga, and SS, TT and GrayArea❤️❤️🍺❤️❤️

[@Jockeylotforfun]

Very Talented people! wonderful livestream, Thank you very much, Love QOT.🌹 Don't forget Order of the Green hand next Wednesday livestream!

[@jadonsmith3224]

Huh? Robert and Ned? While funny and meme-able, a lot of barrative is being twisted lol. Several people comment on peak Robert, Including Cersei. Ned isn't into Cersei when she comes on to him because he knows what she is and what she has done. He thinks she killed Jon as well. Remember also that in Robert's mind, the Targaryens are to blame for his parents' deaths. That's where his rage stems from. They continue to slight him. I think you become closer than brothers when you grow up together and go to war anf share victories and grief together

[@littlechic0510]

Renly tried to get Ned to go and sit the throne and have Joffrey and Cersei detained but he wouldn't do it. Renly had to save himself because he knew what Cersei would do and she did it. She plopped Joffrey firmly on the throne and that was that.

[@sunshinesilverarrow5292]

Such a great discussion, thank you both! ☀️

[@danishtasteele9272]

Indeepgeeks take on, Ben and Ned dealing with Lyanna is amazing. Imagine Ned going on his war mission just brainstorming and trying to figure out what to do next and when he finds his sister.

[@TheTam0613]

Thank you both for such a fabulous video! I appreciate how much time and effort you both put into such amazing content 👏😘😘👍

[@TheLucille7]

Enjoyed the discussion 👍

[@annaarwen4345]

That was a great stream x Lol I never really considered the Ned-Robert relationship as something more but now its out there I cant ignore it and its making sense........

[@totalnewb123]

I’m a Robert Baratheon fan and I was wondering when you’ll do a character summary on him

[@wanderbyy]

"Eh, not that into the subject but still gonna watch.........nevermind this is fascinating."

[@kaffeestark4750]

Joined late tonight. Caught the early conversation and speculation on the replay. I think we need to be careful about not placing the characters in the viewpoint of our time. Ned and Robert lived in a very different culture from ours, and I highly doubt their relationship was more or different than that of best buds and bros strengthened by the bonds they formed through battles and wars. People from all backgrounds form very strong non-sexual bonds and affinities by fighting through adversities together. The language and descriptions from this modeled medieval time are different than today's context. We really need "Fire and Blood" and TWOW.

[@joehunt390]

This is 100%. My take on the whole closer than brothers thing from Robert is Robert has a love for ned from their friendship. But whilst he accepts and acknowledges his brothers he has no love for them

[@JoeMagician]

Very possible! As I said during the stream, Ned could be asexual meaning his very strong love of Robert is more what you're talking about. Although his physical descriptions of how Robert looked as a young man are very detailed and kinda read like they're out of a bad romance novel. Eyes like blue lakes, how he smelled of leather and blood, muscled like a maiden's fantasy, etc. If ned did fancy Robert, it was almost certainly never consummated though.

[@samanthaa.6055]

Where in the books does it say that Jon's eyes look purple sometimes?????

[@mistymathis257]

Ned has enough kids to show he at least did Catelyn quite a few times and isn't completely asexual. We even have a post coital scene when Cat gets the coded letter from her sister.

[@deehall3058]

We get Cat's resignation to do a females' duty to bear children. I think Ned also HAD to do the duty of the Stark family. Ned's life wasnot regulated being a second son and shy so he could have any girl as wife. Then to be forced by Jon Arryn to wed Catilyn, Ned felt his life spinning out of his control.

[@joehunt390]

@@deehall3058 where do u get he was force to wed cat by jon arryn???? He did it as his duty to replace his brother not because someone else made him

[@deehall3058]

@@joehunt390: Ned was shy and easily convinced by the Leaders of the rebellion [aka Jon Arryn] and following his dead Fathers' plan to join the Starks to all the Houses that opposed the Targ King

[@JoeMagician]

It's a common idea in medieval and renaissance periods, and even in ASOIAF, that these marriages are built on politics and not necessarily love or attraction. Many kings and lords who were not heterosexual married and had many children despite preferring the company of the same sex or little to no interest. Even if Ned is not particularly interested, it's very important that as the only sibling still available that he have children and lots of them to continue the line. Ned and Cat also don't share bedrooms and he always leaves quickly after sex. Ned always does his duty.

[@joehunt390]

@@deehall3058 I am more inclined to go with he followed his fathers wishes and replaced his brother. If anything jon arryn jumped on needs bandwagon to marry a Tully by getting wed to lysa at the same time

[@alexstewart9747]

Guys Ned was an alpha male and was smashing Catelyn just before the grey rat Luwin brought the mystery note into their bedroom in book 1.

[@stevenhetzel6483]

Jamie's face didnt change in a sudden realization that Ned was really good in their fight, i don't think. the opposite is likely, he realized he WASNT as good as he believed, and the fact Ned supposedly killed Sir Arthur didn't match with what Jamie was seeing. "How could this man have killed my idol? There's nothing special about him" is likely his thoughts when his expression took a turn.

[@AndrewK23777]

Great vid as always , well done IDG. Btw just a suggestion for next week if you are undecided on the topic or just for the near future in general ; with winter literally approaching for most of us viewers on these live streams , i wondered if you would consider doing a character study about House Stark , similar to how you did last week for House Lannister. Personally i think that would be fantastic , but its just a suggestion. I look forward to next week's live stream regardless of the topic you decide on.

[@juliebethstiles7779]

i will second this suggestion!!

[@AndrewK23777]

julie beth stiles , 👍🏻 , definitely hope we get a live stream about House Stark be it next week or in the near future.

[@victoriasantoro6692]

That was a nice livestream

[@vorthora]

Ned could've been a shy late bloomer, and that's all.

[@edpistemic]

The early exchange reminded me of those terrible reads of Captain America and Bucky in the Winter Soldier. It's a rather sad thing that it's often easier for commentators to reach to explain male/male relationships through sexual attraction rather than the 'awkward' situation that very strong friendships can develop between men just as much as between women.

[@misscherim]

I once heard a story of a man receiving a call from his gf who said a man was following her and asked for him to get her from a few blocks over. She suddenly screamed and then the bf jumped into his car and saw her in the back of a car- screaming. He began to follow the car when suddenly his car broke and the car with his gf drove on. He ran for two miles before he stopped and he never saw her again. He killed himself ten years later. I truly believe that Robert had ptsd from losing Lyanna. And was tormented by his thoughts of how Rheagar raped her. And how helpless he was. I cannot imagine how much pain he was in. I feel incredible sympathy for him.

[@HelenA-vz5wy]

He viewed her as his property. He has no empathy for women and children, especially if they get raped and/or killed. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@orphanedhanyou]

I think many people don't understand that those that have a high awareness of morality, honor, control, discipline, also recognize & see the world in the way of function. Sex is a function, it's not a pastime as it is for many people, to create families & bond marriages for long term. While drive can be part of it, I think for people like Nex it's about having sex when it matters, because sex matters, it shouldn't be casual, and that many other important things can be done for the family & community during the time many others are trying to get with another partner or are repeatedly getting casual sex.

[@ryanmcdonald4401]

Could we get a video on an indepth look at theon and his relationship with ned and the starks and what ned had in mind when raising theon i.e to raise him as an honorable child who could one day bring the northern values to the iron islands?

[@Quazi-moto]

I think you pretty much summed it up.

[@Midorikonokami]

I always had this one big question in my head, and since you're doing hypotheticals ... What do you think would have happened if Robert was captured or killed during the Battle of the Bells?

[@SouperSaiyan96]

It's like listening to Derren Brown talk about GoT. It's awesome.

[@JRHightower1987]

You guys are reaching with this one... down the rabbit hole we game of thrones fans have gone... lol

[@shannoncampbell9276]

If you are looking for video ideas and topics to discuss, I think a conversation about Old Nan would be interesting. Was she just a minor character only there to introduce the connection of Bran and the Long Night, or more. She disappears when Bran and Rickon go into hiding and both Bran and Theon note that she is not among the dead at Winterfell in their point of view chapters. Where do you think she went and do you think she will return now that Bran is back in Winterfell?

[@ackidack]

this community is so lgbt friendly i love it! much better than a lot of other geeky communities

[@lindamadden789]

Do either of you think you have figured out the ending? GRRM said we could figure it out from book one.

[@benjaminodonnell258]

Robert Baratheon vs Arthur Dayne is the bull vs matiador...

[@FatherhoodAndFitness]

11:00 Ned actually does comment on having intimate relations with Cat. Read Game Of Thrones again.

[@kathleenrogers6750]

Robert, the facial hair really is attractive. Good choice!

[@darrenfromwales7978]

Did Leanna die after childbirth. The tv show seems to present this. However it would seem he was born whilst Ned was in king's landing, so she survived whilst Ned found out where she was and then journeyed to her.

[@missymoo8348]

I think robert has more love and trust for Ned than Ned does for robert.is it only me that see a pain and miss trust towards robert , what and how ned talks to robert on the kings road and the cripts ...neds not so obvious interest in sex or women etc just proves the weight of the world on neds shoulders. I think these men did not really know each other as adults so well and they were fighting different wars! Robert was in love if the IDEA of lyanna abd being king ...it was about the glory of getting there. I think robert is the key to alot of the true story! He is not what he appears. Bran 111 coma dream he saw the blue green rush of the trident(where was the red) i saw my father begging with the king , eyes full of grief!! #RhaegaristheNK

[@himynameisrev]

Ok, I don’t listen to the podcast Joe mentioned, there’s just too much stuff out there, but where in the text does it mention Rickard at the Stepstones? Based off what I read, he was in Kings Landing winning favor at court during the Wo9PK. It seemed like Tywin won the most acclaim during that war. His dad kind of sucked at war, he stepped up, became the man, and led all these Lords, Arryn, Tully, Littlefingers Dad, Baratheon...I never saw a mention of Rickard. What I read almost seemed like the point was to show Tywin assuming supremacy, all these lords winning this war without any kind of Targaryen figurehead, and that sowed the seeds for all the moves made before and during Roberts Rebellion. Where is this Rickard information coming from?

[@joshuastephens3141]

Yeah I think Ned being sexually interested in Robert is a bridge too far and bordering on ludicrous. But the discussion was fun. It’s also strange that Ned’s son Robert was a great warrior, but lost his kingdom and life in the bedroom as his namesake did, albeit in very different ways. So does anyone have any idea why Ned NEVER told his wife that Jon was his nephew and not his bastard? I understand he barely knew her when he first brought him home... but they obviously had a great love later and it would have made EVERYONE’s life so much easier! I know, I know...”promise me Ned”, but still it doesn’t make sense to me

[@wanderbyy]

"Once 2 people know something, it's no longer a secret" Also, I feel like his vague, uncomfortable question to himself when he compares Cat to Cersei as a mother, even for a second, says he knew better than to trust her with Jon's life.

[@joshuastephens3141]

Thank you so much. I had never thought about it from that perspective.... I was always thinking wtf it made his life hell... and Cat’s as well.... so why doesn’t he just tell her??? She can keep a secret and she’s clever and long sighted enough to understand.... except she’s not where Jon is concerned. All she can see from Jon is a usurper to HER children’s birthrights. I should have seen that sooner as it’s a major theme in the series. Whenever the characters put love and feelings in the forefront they always make mistakes. Poor Tyrion.... thanks again

[@WarriorGirl_113]

I just got out of work. I'm curious what were Ricard's plan for Ned's future? He had betrothed Brandon and his sister.. does anyone know? Was he betrothed to someone?

[@joehunt390]

Ned was not, some say Brandon getting ashra dayne yo dance with ned was a way of getting the two of them betrothed at some stage

[@JoeMagician]

No betrothal, but his fostering in the Vale implies that perhaps Rickard was hoping Ned would find a bride there.

[@WarriorGirl_113]

Joe Magician Thank you very much!!!

[@WarriorGirl_113]

Joe Hunt-Thanks!

[@larryhoyt5834]

I think Ned falls in love with Ashara at Harrenhall and she's not very far away from the Eyrie while she's with Elia at Dragonstone. I think she's with him heading to Brandon's and Cat's wedding to meet his father. That never happens bc of Lyanna & Rheaghar elopement & Brandon & Rikard's death and I think she's the "fisherman's daughter" that Ned puts the babe into the belly of as he tries to take her to the safety of the North. I think he marries her bc he's going off to war & knocks her up or reverse that. He then leaves her at the Wolf's Den visits her while the banners are gathering. Then goes to RiverRun to get Tully's men & is forced by Hoster to marry Cat to get the forces. Ned says I'm already married & Hoster says idgaf. Ned needs those RR men and puts aside his honor to save Robert & the Rebellion. I think this is why the Blackfish disowns Hoster. Ashara goes back to Starfall to give birth bc she knows she and Ned are now done. Then later Ned brings her Rheagar & Lyanna's son Aegon bc he can't be seen with a kid with purple eyes & blonde hair and takes their son Jon with him. She becomes Septa Lemore, Ned's Maester goes with her to raise Aegon with Connington until he's ready to come back.

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Joe the Magician has street cred 👍🏾

[@darrenfromwales7978]

In the world of ice and fire LOVE is very misrepresented. Robert wants to own Leanna. Ned lives with catelyn. Cersai does not know love but thinks Kenny Jamie is love. Sansa dreams of a chivalrous knight. until Jon and ygritte the only real example is tyrion who falls in love but gets destroyed by his dad. The women seem to put up with what they have.

[@acendiatstudios6517]

Lol no one in there right mind would take on a war hammer with a sword. 1.A sword is ineffective against armor a war hammer is not. 2. A war hamer has a reach advantage. Swords where secondary and self defense weapons. A sword is easily carried at the waist that's why they where common.

[@cleftlannights2881]

Could Robert have been mind control 2 have that many children with so many? Like somebody Warg into him or green seared

[@Slechy_Lesh]

12:37

[@emilywilliams6683]

Cersei tells Euron on the show that Robert “never learned his way around a woman’s body” despite all the whores he had every day.

[@kevinscottbailey8335]

Spartan warriors often had gay relationships

[@acendiatstudios6517]

You do know that there is such a thing as platonic love right. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship

[@panzercount]

Please get a grip Ned and Roberts as gay! The have that kind of friendsship blod and war brothers have i have a Friend se grew Up together we joind the army and still 10 years later se can more or less read each minds.

[@JoeLouis628]

Just a shot in the dark.. is Joe magician gay by any chance?

[@asharadaynedragonblood1803]

I missed this Live but I really feel I need to say things: 1. Rhaegar said 'a womans name' NOT Lyanna. 2. Ned clearly trusts Robert, even later when Robert asks him to come to Kings Landing. Cat warns Ned that Robert had changed. But Ned replies "Robert would never harm any of my blood" - that includes Jon. He even tells the kids, how heroic Robert killed Rhaegar and what a great man Robert was. He does that to Jon as well. When Robert finally comes to Winterfell, Jon is disappointed by Roberts appearance. I really doubt that Ned would brag about Jon's fathers death in fron of him. We still make the big mistake: we assume as FACT that Lyanna and Rhaegar were together. I say: they were NOT. They never were. It is a clever misled by George. We fall in the same trap as all the people of Westeros. I won't go unto this any more deep but I say: Jon is Lyannas and Arthur Daynes child. Dany is Rhaegars ans Asharas daughter. The Tower of Joy, as described in the fever dream, did not exist. There is a lot of dream symbolism in that scene, just how fever dreams are. The real ToJ was the Palestone Sword at Starfall. I think, there Jon was born. How can this all be? Believe me, it CAN. I made research and I strongly believe in Lyanna and Arthur =Jon. There are incredible hints to that in the books, IF you cast aside the R+L cemented thought. If you want to know about it more, then feel free to read my blogs I have written on my Amino account. Jon has sometimes purple-ish eyes? Guess why!

[@FishBoneD14]

AsharaDayneDragonblood interesting thoughts for sure

[@asharadaynedragonblood1803]

@@FishBoneD14 aminoapps.com/p/o2swf1

[@robertjulianoph.d.1423]

+AsharaDayneDragonblood 1. The vision that Daenerys had in the House of the Undying did NOT say that it was Rhaegar who uttered a woman's name with his last breath. It said "Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name." It is very likely that the dying Prince in the vision was Rhaegar, just as it is very likely that the woman's name he uttered with his last breath was Lyanna. But, as this is a vision, we don't know if it is even factual. 2. I am sure you know the story of how the show's creators got GRRM to allow them to make the show - GRRM asked them who Jon's mother is and their answer seemed to please GRRM. Furthermore, the show's creators believe that they gave the correct answer as they have said so many times in interviews. It is certainly possible that WoW will go a different direction on this than the show, but that would be strange given what the creators have said.

[@robertjulianoph.d.1423]

+AsharaDayneDragonblood Tower of Joy - Part I: I must ask what part of the Tower of Joy experience do you think did not happen. In "Game of Thrones," chapter Eddard X, it is true that we see Eddard Stark dream the battle at the Tower of Joy. And, because it is a dream, we should be careful about considering it as fact. But, we have the following from an AWAKE Ned and other sources: A. When Ned is fully AWAKE, he remembers that "Ned pulled the tower down afterward ... It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the Tower of Joy ... They had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away; Eddard Stark and the little Crannogman, Howland Reed. He did not think it omened well that he should dream that dream again after so many years." Given that he is awake when he thinks this, it is important to note that he does not think that the dream was incorrect.

[@robertjulianoph.d.1423]

+AsharaDayneDragonblood Tower of Joy - Part II: B. In "Game of a Thrones," chapter Eddard I, when Ned is talking to the King in the crypts of Winterfell in front of Lyanna's crypt, he remembers "Promise me, Ned, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned." C. In "The World of Ice & Fire," page 234, we know there was a Tower of Joy in Dorne. D. On page 239 of the same book, it is stated that Eddard Stark killed Ser Arthur Dayne in single combat. So, once again, what part of the Tower of Joy experience do you think did not happen?

[@timothyattah8110]

He wants them to be gay so bad 😂

[@janetlyn6697]

This is the first time I've heard of the Ned might be gay theory. Interesting evidence. 🤔

[@benjaminodonnell258]

While I'm pretty certain Robert wasn't gay or bi, the more I look at the evidence, the more I think Ned might have been... (Or asexual as you suggest.)

[@aniko7125]

Well it could be possible that Robert’s show of hyper masculinity (whoring, drinking, fighting to excess) could be a cover for whatever homoerotic feelings he has for Ned (or anyone else). For all the sleeping around he does he is never able to connect with a woman in any meaningful emotional way, which is really unusual and suggestive of something else. I don’t think they were ever involved though. Robert probably just transferred some of the feelings he has for Ned onto Lyanna ,pretty much seeing her as “Ned+boobs” (But obviously she was nothing like Ned).

[@tradzz5313]

Kara W just no. They grew up together, fought wars together, grieved a person they loved together. That creates a pretty strong bond between two people.

[@aaronweers8697]

Me: ok there is NO way Robert and Ned are gay. Me 5 minutes later: ok they were DEFINITELY gay.

[@moshak1455]

this Joe guy is reaching way too much. its annoying actually

[@bigdunc91]

Sorry but bit of a silly an desperate stream.

[@JoeLouis628]

I'm starting to think they want it to be gay fan fiction.