Negative Harmony - Lesson #1

[@RedzaMusic]

When June Lee and you explained G to C being the same as Fm to C in terms of polarity, shouldn't it be Fm to Cm? Why did he turn all the chords to their negative versions except keep the C chord major?

[@MarcoFiorini]

That's a good point, the negative polar chord of C is Cm, so actually the whole relative of G to C is Fm to Cm. The reason I'm considering Fm to C is because negative harmony lives together with positive harmony, so one of its more interesting applications is to switch between positive and negative chords resolving to the original key center (in this case I was considering C major); but of course you can choose to end up in Cm. I'll discuss some of these topics in my next video, talking about cadences and how every dominant chord can go to different key centers. Thank you for your comment!

[@mbaseconcepts]

Collier has some things mixed up. You are correct, the progression that that mirrors the voice-leading of G7 -> Cmaj is Fmin6 -> Cmin. On the cover of Levy's book he has Fmin to Cmaj (all as triads), but he is mixing chords from the so-called positive and negative worlds (Levy never mentioned the word 'negative', that's what I called it). Other than what is on our website, Marco's video does the best job of explaining these ideas, which are very old. I've been using this in some form for maybe 39 years, but I got the basics from older musicians. It has been written about in some form for well over 1000 years, and from the major-minor standpoint since at least Francois-Joseph Fetis and Moritz Hauptmann.

[@RedzaMusic]

Yeah, I've seen some newer videos that don't totally understand the concept. The newer videos use the negative 7th extention as the root of the chord, which doesn't feel right. This seemed to be the best video so far to explain it

[@MarcoFiorini]

Hi Steve, thank you so much for this comment, it means a lot to me. I learned a lot from your workshop in Bologna last november (I was the guy asking lot of things to you at the piano) and been studying these concepts since then; I've also based my graduation Thesis on your work. Hope to meet you again very soon.

[@mbaseconcepts]

Thanks Marco, yea, I remember you. You are one of the few that gives some credit, which I believe is important. Looking forward to your next video. It's funny how things blow up after many years, but in a kind of 'pop' version.

[@fifthape2119]

FINALLY! Someone who can explain negative harmony. Thank you!

[@Suoyung]

Wow, it is made so clear by your explanation! My harmony teacher explained slightly the concept to me when I was in school, but we didn't dig into it. Recently it was very popularized by Jacob Collier, but I didn't understand it well from his interviews, because I remembered it differently. Now everything became very clear to me! Thank you ^_^

[@JensLarsen]

Very thorough and clear Marco! Good work! 🙂

[@MarcoFiorini]

Jens Larsen Thank you! Keep up your great work!

[@DojoOfCool]

Excellent explanation of Negative Harmony, look forward to your future lessons.

[@alexbroughton2874]

thank u marco for taking the time to make this

[@rileymerino6340]

Thank you! Before the Collier interview it seems like nobody knew what negative harmony was, so I was researching it and couldn't find anything! I'm so glad there are real instructional videos and there's an actual way to learn as a non-academic musician!

[@JAIRODALLOS]

For me there are recycled concepts; 1) bimodality or modal interchange: something usual in contemporary music; here is clear the use of jonic (C MAJOR tonic) and 5th mode of paralel tonic (5th of minor paralel tonic - C MINOR NATURAL) 2) about melodic constructions, "retrograde" techniques are used from centuries ago

[@MarcoFiorini]

Hi man, what you are saying is true. The things that I present are not meant to be new, as concepts, but I want to share a different point of view, which is the one Ernst Levy studied and musicians like Steve Coleman or Jacob Collier are using in their music. I'm aware that Bach knew well this stuff, though I guess he didn't call it "Negative Harmony"; the same is true speaking about cats like Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, Dizzy Gillespie or Barry Harris. Fm to C will always sound as a Plagal Cadance to my ears but, again, the point here is to try different perspectives, and I think that in the world of music, where it seems that everything has already been done, different point of views could be fundamental. Thank you for your comment!

[@JAIRODALLOS]

Thanks for your answer Marco.

[@Triggs-Music]

recycling is good. just ask the ocean

[@ZabalaGuitarrak]

yeah , I saw it in the same way , C as I and C as vi

[@derycktrahair8108]

I can't understand why G =generator. A negative mirror image of C (retrograde) would give a similar effect. Anyway, it all sounds interesting and I like it. My ears hear it but my brain hasn't caught up yet.

[@TyKats34]

Outstanding presentation, Marco! Can't wait for lesson #2

[@williamidakwo2953]

Thank you very much brother. This stuff is already driving crazy, I love it. I can't wait to stary improvising with these...

[@J3unG]

Great video that is presented well. Thanks. I'm not familiar with this concept until now. I appreciate your attention to detail and thoroughness.

[@paladin17t]

Very good. This actually started to make sense for me. Thanks.

[@jimhendricks88]

From a purely functional standpoint, the negative harmonic theory and bases make great sense and is good for study. But aurally, I believe what is what is ultimately perceived is still simply borrowed harmonies from c minor (using your C Major example).

[@SoloGuitar1000]

Thanks for the great video. Very clearly explained. Can't wait for Lesson #2 !

[@felipsis]

This is what I was looking for, Gracias de corazón Marco! Un abrazo de Medellin Colombia!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you Felipe! Stay tuned and share, more videos will come soon! Un abrazo!

[@Bekirkursunet]

Hi dear Marco, thank you so much for your video. This concept is amazing ❤️

[@zzzyzzzyzzzyxxx]

Thanks Marco - this helped me understand some of the other videos I have watched on the topic.

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you Stefen, I'm very happy this helped. Stay tuned, more videos will be out soon!

[@MrBrynstar]

Thanks heaps, Marco! Great, concise explanation. Can't wait to hear more

[@stelisklados]

Really looking forward for your next lessons :)

[@MarcoFiorini]

I'm working on it! Thank you!

[@alisonalencar361]

Obrigado por compartilhar seu conhecimento conosco meu amigo, depois que assisti sua aula, comecei a entender o assunto, agora é estudar, e mãos a obra!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you Alison! Share and stay tuned for more videos! Cheers!

[@alisonalencar361]

Yes. Very good..!!!

[@ajadrew]

Thank you very much for this...time to watch it again!

[@limawhisk7752]

Very clearly explained. I wish I could read your thesis.

[@rmarques8156]

Nice job! I had a really hard time figuring this out by myself with other videos, but you made everything very clear now. Keep up the good work!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you very much, I'm happy this helped! More videos will come soon!

[@arturoelmamiferoz]

very clear Marco, thank you

[@michaelcabrera6210]

Good video, very clear and easy to understand.

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you! Stay tuned, more videos will come soon!

[@lorenzschaetti8292]

very clear and understandable explained! thanks marco! great job!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you! I'm happy this helped!

[@greywrath]

That was very neat! Hope you do a 2nd lesson too!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thanks! More videos will come soon, stay tuned!

[@nielsoldin1]

Great stuff! Thanks Marco

[@D.NogueraMusic]

Very well explained, thanks for sharing

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you! More videos will come very soon!

[@LittleHarryBrother1]

Wow, thank you so much Marco! Really looking forward to the next video! ^_^

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you! I'm working on the material for more videos!

[@kasperdreyerdd]

Thank you for making things clear! Very good video!

[@SokratisVotskos]

Steve Coleman is a real innovator!

[@y34r]

Very good video; Clear and easy to understand. Thx alot

[@LeandroCelleri]

Hi Marco! Thank you very much for your video, It's amazing! I have one simple question i hope you can answer. I still don't understand exactly why you take G (perfect fifth) as your starting point to construct your negative Scale

[@deLeonGuitarStudio]

Best explanation I've seen yet. Marco can you comment on the concept of the axis? Everyone else seems to make this the central point of their (bad) explanations, but you didn't even mention it. PLEASE make more videos on this topic, with examples of it applied!

[@deLeonGuitarStudio]

The other thing I just don't understand is why do we do all the intervals down from G to get the "negative" of C? Why don't we do all the intervals down from C, to get the negative of C? Or I guess another way of phrasing it is, why is -C major not the reverse of C major?

[@MarcoFiorini]

Hi! Thank you for your kind words. These are really good questions, I'll try to answer. First of all I suggest you to download the annotated PDF related to what I say in the video (www.mediafire.com/file/sr2bvoon9bhldn8/Negative_Harmony_%231_ENG_Fiorini_Marco.pdf). - About the axis, I think this is actually something Jacob Collier came up with; I don't remember Ernst Levy mentioning this axis in his book, but I should check. I can try to explain it in this way: if you think of the notes contained in a perfect fifth, they are 8: C C# D D# E F F# G. Being 8 an even number, you can divide the perfect fifth in two blocks of 4 notes each: C C# D D# - E F F# G. Now if you assign simmetrical numbers to these notes (and this is something you can do because of the gravity each note has inside the perfect fifht) you end up with: C(1) C#(2) D(3) D#(4) - E(4) F(3) F#(2) G(1). The notes with the same number have the same tonal polarity, so C corresponds to G and D# (or Eb, as Collier says) to E. This is your axis, but I think that it would be more correct to say that the axis is composed by both D# and E, rather than saying that the axis is in between the two notes. That's because an in-between axis is something theoretical, while considering two tones together as an axis is more practical and, in a certain way, true. Steve Coleman works in this exact way in his melodic improvisations, but this is a really big topic and it would take too much time to explain properly. Anyways I'm pretty sure that Ernst Levy didn't think too much about this axis, while he was more interested on the importance of the perfect fifth, hence the negative G major scale. - This lead us to your second question. Levy's book starts from a philosophical and mathematical point of view, as he wants to show that musical norms are psycho-physical facts, not conventional fictions. So he begins his study with the monochord and the Pythagorean table. Moving forward, when we play a tone, let's say C, we know that this note contains all the overtones, yet that tone is one. Its unity is guaranteed by spatial and dynamic remoteness of the partial tones. The fifth here occupies a special place, being the only tone present in the second octave. In absolute conception, the generator C (ratio 1/1) produces G (1/3); the generator G (1/3) produces C (3/3 = 1/1). So the chances for each tone to be considered the generator are equal. Also we want a scale that has the same tonal polarity, the same structure T-T-ST-T-T-T-ST and the same perfect fifth C-G as the C major scale does: that's negative G major. Negative C major scale is the relative negative of F major. I hope this is clear, I've tried to resume as much as I could but these topics need quite a long time to get mastered. Stay tuned as new videos will come soon, talking about cadences and their applications to jazz standards!

[@FilipeSousa97]

Great video. Very didactic! i have one main recommendation. I've never read the Ernst Levy book, but I'm studying with some friends about negative harmony and I discovered something interesting. You can't use, for example the same "reflector" sort of speak for C and E. But you can use for C and F# because they are tritones. The reflection doesn't change. This way, you can have 6 different mirrors C - F# C# - G D - G# Eb - A E - Ab F - B Approach that in one of your future videos, if you want to

[@JoseHerrerapiano]

U are right. I have been digging a bit more about this matter and ur explanation is very accurate. Maybe is better just to make clear, that this works better for TRIADS and some 7ths and majors and minors. The way u look at it, gives space to think about it. Now i understand it better. Thnx

[@darcivieira8298]

Maravilha, obrigado Mestre!

[@brandonreevesmusic5408]

This has been bugging me since I saw that Collier interview. So well explained, thank you!

[@je-pq3de]

Hey there tank you, could you get into cadences and voice leading? thank you!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Jakob Empacher these are exactly the topics of the next video! Stay tuned and share, thanks!

[@TomOConnorBassGuitar]

Thanks for this great explanation, of tried understanding a few different interpretations of negative harmony, but didn't find anything I could get to work well. The missing piece was the realisation that the scale is numbered backwards. I was trying to make a 2-5-1 by individually flipping chords 2 5 and 1, when the correct one as got from this video ends up being more of a 7-4-1. Looking forward to the next one!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Right, you cant think of a negative 2-5-1 as b7-4-1. Dm7 G7 C --> Bb6 Fm6 C I'm working on new videos talking about candences and jazz standards, stay tuned and thank you for your interaction!

[@SamyDaussat]

@@MarcoFiorini i don't understand. Why the negative harmony is not Fm-Cm-Gm ? Why négative of C is C in your exemple ? Why if the negative C = G is not the same with chords

[@bocho999]

Thanks for your explanation...

[@SheddingRoomSessions]

Great presentation Marco!! Greetings from Greece!!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you very much! Stay tuned for more videos!

[@SokratisVotskos]

Hey file!!!

[@afairbien]

Well done Marco

[@leviandades777]

Obrigado Marco

[@MarcoFiorini]

You're welcome! Stay tuned for more videos!

[@relaxingchannel3928]

awesome lesson! grazie mile!

[@b1ch0f30]

Bellissimo!!! Mi sto intrippando!

[@ZabalaGuitarrak]

So , can you do the same negative scale for another tonality , for example G major ? Nice video

[@themodernshoe2466]

Awesome video thank you!

[@damiantiderecha]

This is just a modal interchange (C major and Cminor) but with some pretty concepts to make it seem complicated.

[@shlongtown3000]

Thank you it's very helpful!

[@zcvs-x9k]

Grande Marco, ben fatto!

[@woytd6435]

makes sense! Thank You!

[@jazzguitarsimplified5944]

Yes, awesome!

[@graysonwilson-cacciapalle7989]

Maybe I missed it, but why wouldn't the negative scale start with the same tonic then descend from there WWHWWWH? How does G come into play?

[@MarcoFiorini]

HI! Thank you for your comment! First of all I suggest you to download the annotated PDF related to what I say in the video (www.mediafire.com/file/sr2bvoon9bhldn8/Negative_Harmony_%231_ENG_Fiorini_Marco.pdf). As I've said in a previous comment, Levy's book starts from a philosophical and mathematical point of view, as he wants to show that musical norms are psycho-physical facts, not conventional fictions. So he begins his study with the monochord and the Pythagorean table. Moving forward, when we play a tone, let's say C, we know that this note contains all the overtones, yet that tone is one. Its unity is guaranteed by spatial and dynamic remoteness of the partial tones. The fifth here occupies a special place, being the only tone present in the second octave. In absolute conception, the generator C (ratio 1/1) produces G (1/3); the generator G (1/3) produces C (3/3 = 1/1). So the chances for each tone to be considered the generator are equal. Also we want a scale that has the same tonal polarity, the same structure T-T-ST-T-T-T-ST and the same perfect fifth C-G as the C major scale does: that's negative G major. Negative C major is the relative negative of F major. Feel free to share and stay tuned, new videos will come soon!

[@myopicman]

Im not quite sure but I think it is because G is the 5th of C and when Ernst Levy came up with the idea he said that the 5th and tonic should be the axis that you mirror off. Jacob Collier mentioned it in the now famous interview.

[@Ocean8881]

Wow!! Exactly what I was thinking !! I kept missing the point where G became the point of descending departure!!

[@Asalgod]

Excellent

[@francescopinter4046]

grazie Marco

[@dirkvanduijn1073]

Most clear explanation..but does this also works with scales other than the major scale?

[@alfbarroso]

Does Okazaki’s Book also talks about negative harmony, tonal polarity, etc? Thanks for sharing.

[@220musicschool]

Ok, Jacob Collier blew my mind... but you just helped me understand why and this is pure genius (*_*)

[@omertabach9794]

Thanks!

[@sidneyrichard5319]

Thank you very much for this clear and concise explanation. On a non-theoretical basis I've been trying to extend backwards through the cycle of 5ths, but Bb6 - Fm6 - Cmaj doesn't sound that great to me, plus I feel there's some voice leading tricks I'm missing. Looking forward to the next video. Can you construct negative harmony chords to Happy Birthday and still make it sound nice?

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you for your comment, I'm really glad this helped! In my next videos I'm going to talk about cadences and voice leading so stay tuned! On Happy Birthday: yes you can, maybe I'll show them in my next video but you can try by yourself. Negative chords are Cm Fm and Gm (as positive ones are C G and F). About the cycle of 4ths (Bb6 Fm6 C∆) maybe you need to develop your ear and get used to these cadences. Backdoor cadance (Bb6 or Bb7 to C) and minor plagal cadence (Fm to C) are very common in many genres. I can think of many jazz standards having these candences, like There will never be another you, Lady Bird, Cherokee, Stella by starlight, as well as many brazilian tunes by Jobim.

[@JazzGuitarForum]

Bravo!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Grazie mille!

[@AtarrayaProMusic]

Thanks for share..

[@bongosock]

That was really helpful! Thanks very much :)

[@ClaudioCirillomusic]

Grazie sei stato chiarissimo !

[@alparbalazs]

Great explanation, Marco, thank you! What for me still an open question is, why do we perceive C as the tonic in the negative G major scale? In that scale we can also hear G and D, so it is possible to perceive it as if D was reinforcing the tonic: G. Can you please elaborate more on that? Thanks a lot for your work!

[@MarcoFiorini]

That's a good point, but what you need to do is to listen really carefully to the scale as it descends and consider its application as a mirror image of positive C major. Negative harmony is not a thing by itself, as it lives together with positive one. Also, when you consider the harmonization of this scale, C is the attraction point of those chords, not G. Hope this makes sense, it's going to take some time to get our ears used to this! Thank you very much for your comment, stay tuned, more videos will come!

[@nezkeys79]

Marco Fiorini why didnt you use negative C major and start on the top C so it would have been a truer mirror image?

[@mbaseconcepts]

nezkeys79 Because mirror image is a different concept. This is inversion around the fifth (C:G) and not inversion around only C.

[@TomasMikaX]

Is the difference between common inversion and negative harmony that in n. h. the axis can be theoretically anywhere whereas inversion is always reffering to one note?

[@stjacquesremi]

so... basically, it's just exact inversion?

[@EthanMckennaMusic]

THE HYPE IS REAL. People won't shut up about negative harmony recently lol. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it thoroughly :)

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you! Let's spread the word! Stay tuned, I'll talk about cadences and jazz standards very soon!

[@cesaraltamirano3736]

Excellent video!! I have a question, this is the negative version of C major scale, so if I am in D major scale, the negative version is Am frigian?

[@MarcoFiorini]

Talking about notes, yes, but you should be aware to call it Negative A major. The notes are the same as A phrygian but, as I say in the video, calling it this way is not correct because phrygian is an ascending scale, while a negative scale is descending. This is very important in terms of polarity and gravity. A Phrygian: A(1) Bb(b2) C(b3) D(4) E(5) F(b6) G(b7) Negative A major: A(1) G(2) F(3) E(4) D(5) C(6) Bb(7) Hope this makes sense, thank you for your comment!

[@mbaseconcepts]

Marco Fiorini The big difference is functional. D is the tonic. So functionally, neg A Major = D Aeolian (not A Phrygian).

[@gianfallmusic]

Oe man! Complimenti per il video, veramente lineare, continua così.

[@yveskyauta5150]

Ciao Marco! video interessantissimo su un argomento che sta infiammando il web, devo dire che il tuo approccio mi ha aiutato enormemente a capirci di piu e per questo ti ringrazio :) una domanda però: come mai sei partito a formare la scala discendente proprio dal sol (v grado) ? cioè cosa detta che sia necessario partire proprio da li e non dal fa o dal la? grazie ancora!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Ciao! I motivi sono diversi; se non sono stato abbastanza chiaro nel video ti invito a scaricare il pdf annotato in allegato (www.mediafire.com/file/urcf9p216t59a3e/Negative_Harmony_ITA_Fiorini_Marco.pdf). Come spiego lì, la relativa scala negativa di C maggiore sarà quella che mantiene gli stessi caratteri di Polarità Funzionale, la stessa struttura e lo stesso intervallo di quinta C-G, di modo che C rimanga la tonica. In più, approfondendo i concetti dei primi capitoli di "A Theory Of Harmony" si può capire l'importanza strutturale dell'intervallo di quinta; è il primo intervallo, dopo l'ottava, che compare nella serie degli armonici e crea una sorta di "corrente circolare" (pag 22). Sarebbe necessario leggere bene il libro di Levy per capire gli aspetti più profondi di questa relazione: già dagli esperimenti sul monocordo risulta che le proporzioni tra fondamentale e tonica sono reciproche, in altre parole le possibilità che ognuna delle due note risulti generatrice sono identiche. Infine, se si considera la tabella delle proporzioni derivanti dal monocordo e si selezionano le prime 8 note della serie degli armonici, sviluppandole verticalmente, la frequenza degli intervalli di quinta è pari a 113 occorrenze, seconda solo alle 125 della fondamentale (se scegliamo 9 note della serie la frequenza degli intervalli di quinta diventa perfino superiore a quella degli intervalli di tonica: 139); in altre parole è un sistema per sua stessa natura "dominantic" (pag 26) che tende ad espandersi per quinte. Spero di essere stato abbastanza chiaro! Grazie mille dell'apprezzamento, ogni commento è ben accetto, così come ogni condivisione!

[@dankleffmann2473]

Grazie

[@MarcoFiorini]

Grazie a te, ogni condivisione è ben accetta.

[@flavy1000]

Amazing!! And what happens if you put along the two harmonies together? May this theory be used to construct basslines or bass harmonies? let´s see! Thks for sharing!

[@flavy1000]

Somehow it sounds as if we were turning the Malor into Minor...

[@sdjtlch]

Is the generator always the 5th of the positive scale?

[@michaeldumas4907]

the generator of the negative does not always have to be a 5th correct?...

[@elgatorolo]

thank you so much! :)

[@johnnywhyayou]

this is amazing!! thanks for explaining :D

[@mrcndrn]

I studied the same concept with Steve Rochinsky at Berklee a few years ago. There is one point that I don't understand in your logic. If I reverse c major, its negative series would be C phrygian, not G. Why are you starting the negative desc. form the fifth?

[@ParsevalMusic]

Porca miseria fatto davvero bene complimenti

[@derycktrahair8108]

Thank you for sharing your ideas. I have heard what you're playing & it makes sense, but your explanation is confusing. The rel minor of Eb = Cm. I hear the min3rd connection. In C we go up min3rd & think in Ebm? That's the approach I'd take to play over it, or am I confusing Relative m with Tonic m? I have missed something & will work through it again. Thanks for giving us something to think about. This is an important idea.

[@lassegitz5170]

Hi Marco! Love your video! I'm currently writing on the subject as well, and all this work you've done is so amazing and interesting! There is no way that you have an english version or your Thesis or maybe some sort of abstract or summary? I would love to read it, but my italian skills are very poor. :)

[@lassegitz5170]

or do you have suggestons for interesting articles or other sources on the topic that would be worth a read? except from A Theory Of Harmony i have acquired that one :)

[@josearangomusic]

What's exactly the difference between this and modal interchange?

[@mbaseconcepts]

Jose Arango The functions, meaning the way the tonalities work out. For example, the negative of E7 A7 D7 G7 Cmaj is Abm6 Ebmin6 Bbmin6 Fmin6 Cmin This is not modal interchange and it’s not simply inversions. You would not arrive at this using those concepts. Also, once you understand the two worlds, you get to the point of realizing that it’s really one world. And once you get more into it, you can start mixing your paths us, some examples: Abmin6 Amin6 E7 Fmin6 Cmaj or D7 Ebmin6 Ebdim Abmin6 Cmin Again, this is not the same thing as only inversions. You are only thinking structurally, but when you extend the functions this is something else. Also, you have to think melodically, modally, etc.

[@InvertedSonicFNF]

Can you do negative harmony mario music please

[@malthescheel1680]

When will lesson #2 be out?

[@MarcoFiorini]

I'm working on the material for lesson #2, stay tuned!

[@addressadam]

Hay I commented the other day confused by this. I have since figured out where i was going wrong so thought i would share what i learned. I was flipping the chord around the key centre. Instead I should have been flipping the whole key around the key centre. Classic confusion about the word interval. You download really helped so i appreciate it a lot. Thanks. :)

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you for your comment! I'm happy this helped and let you think more about it. This is fundamental to understand better the concept. Stay tuned, more videos will come soon!

[@eyvindjr]

"Negative harmony" assumes that the iv7 chord has the same tension to the tonic as the V7 chord. It doesn't, as there is no tritone in the former. There is nothing wrong about using this technique, but don't expect any magic.

[@YodasPapa]

everything in its right place

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you! More videos will come soon!

[@fritz3802]

So I think I understand more now than I ever did about this, but there's still some things I need to understand on a basic level. So, first, I know the way you form the negative g major scale is by having the same intervals at the c major but reversed, my question is , is there any kind of formula to find these things quickly. In this case I know you aren't to think of it as g Phrygian , but perhaps that's just a good way to find the negative scale on the spot, take the 5th chord of whatever the key your in, make it Phrygian , flip it, and then you have the negative scale? And if you wanted a negative minor scale you would just for instance , take the relative minor of c ( a minor) and do what to find the negative minor scale? I'm just trying to find the quicker ways to learn this and also if any body has advice for quick ways to memorize the negative chords I'd appreciate

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thank you for your interaction! Trying to find some personal formulas is always good in these circumstances. About the melodic aspect, I use to think of mirror degrees around the axis, knowing that the scale I'm going to use is a major scale built on the minor third of the Tonic (Eb), or you can think of C aeolian, but keeping in mind that my generator is G and I have to consider it descending. On the harmonic side (negative chords) I'm somehow used to think about degrees around C, so to me the negative of a V chord is a IVm (Fm), negative of a IIm is a bVIIM (Bb) etc. About relative minor harmony, this is a big and tricky topic I'm still exploring. Negative harmony is minor by itself and it's intended to be a complementary of the positive one; also formulas are ok but when you move through different key centers things become complicated very fast. I suggest you to take some time dealing with the II V I in major and the melodic aspects, then things will come! I hope this make sense!

[@fritz3802]

Marco Fiorini so you're saying you find the negative scale by taking a major scale based on a third away from the tonic? I am sort of understanding what ou say about negative harmony in the chords sense. I'm just trying to find a quick way to know this rather than sit and think- okay c major , the negative 135 is bla bla bla...

[@Thediegmyster]

This is just a relabeling of harmonic parallelism. At the end of the day this is the same as pulling chords from C Ionian to parallel minor Cm Aeolian.

[@arnautorne]

Hi! Why does the negative scale start at the fifth?

[@MarcoFiorini]

HI! Thank you for your interaction! First of all I suggest you to download the annotated PDF related to what I say in the video (www.mediafire.com/file/sr2bvoon9bhldn8/Negative_Harmony_%231_ENG_Fiorini_Marco.pdf). As I've said in a previous comment, Levy's book starts from a philosophical and mathematical point of view, as he wants to show that musical norms are psycho-physical facts, not conventional fictions. So he begins his study with the monochord and the Pythagorean table. Moving forward, when we play a tone, let's say C, we know that this note contains all the overtones, yet that tone is one. Its unity is guaranteed by spatial and dynamic remoteness of the partial tones. The fifth here occupies a special place, being the only tone present in the second octave. In absolute conception, the generator C (ratio 1/1) produces G (1/3); the generator G (1/3) produces C (3/3 = 1/1). So the chances for each tone to be considered the generator are equal. Also we want a scale that has the same tonal polarity, the same structure T-T-ST-T-T-T-ST and the same perfect fifth C-G as the C major scale does: that's negative G major. Feel free to share and stay tuned, new videos will come soon!

[@arnautorne]

Marco Fiorini Wow, thanks man! But the negative C major also has that perfect fifth. Doesnt it have the same tonal polarity?

[@MarcoFiorini]

Good point, but, as you said, in the case of Negative C Major the fifth C-G doesn't have the same tonal polarity, as C is degree 1 and G degree 4 (descending), hope it makes sense!

[@arnautorne]

Marco Fiorini Yeah! Thanks.

[@Acroma69]

nice!

[@MarcoFiorini]

Thanks! Feel free to share it!

[@DeimosError]

What is a Generator? do you mean the dominant?

[@NotRightMusic]

Jacob - what have you done!

[@wardm4]

I know watching a youtube video doesn't give the same enlightenment I'd get from contemplating a book on the subject deeply, but there is something about this that bugs me. If I were to create a "negative happy birthday," I'd number from the tonic not the generator, since the numbers really "ought" to convey "function" rather than distance to the generator. This way I'd get GGFG etc. I'm confused about why it is done the way presented.

[@JoseHerrerapiano]

never the less, the 7th interval in a major scale, is a half diminish chord. Even is is just a TRIAD

[@pianojazztooo]

why -G7 is Cm6 and not Am7(b5)

[@nezkeys79]

Isnt that negative G major scale just the notes of Cm melodic minor descending?

[@MarcoFiorini]

nezkeys79 No, if you want to think in the key of C it's C Aeolian. C Melodic minor is C D Eb F G A B.

[@nezkeys79]

Marco Fiorini thats ascending. Descending it takes its natural form which is C D Eb F G Ab Bb (which are the notes you posted for negative G major scale just not in the same order but thats kinda irrelevant when youre just thinking of all 7 notes)

[@MarcoFiorini]

nezkeys79 sorry, I meant C aeolian (G phrygian). What you are saying is technically right but this theory wants to stress a different point of view in using those 7 notes. It's a bit more complicated than just saying "play Cm over C major". I'm working on new videos to explain better certain concepts.

[@nezkeys79]

Marco Fiorini yeah i mean ive never really understood modes and in the melodic minors case the change of scale descending. I dont view scales as ascending and descending just as a collection of 7 notes so when i solo i dont start thinking i must start my C major scale on a D to get a dorian sound if that makes any sense...i just play the notes in C major which may or may not start and finish on the D

[@alexyan1333]

The same *gravity rather than the same polarity?