Negative Shadow of the Erdtree Review - Elden Ring

[@griegomas]

Final boss should have been Consort Patches.

[@phragmocone]

Jokes aside, Patches should definitely have been somewhere in the DLC.

[@voxfoxclips8684]

A kick to shatter the heavens.

[@ixiahj]

Was hoping Patches quest would continue in dlc. And new Miquela ending.

[@bofa722]

​@@ixiahj the Bill Cosby of Elden Ring

[@LanceLoverPartDeux]

honestly i wouldnt even be mad lol

[@LordDenning_]

I just think the Miquella aspects of the DLC were the least compelling. Everything relating to Marika and Messmer and the Hornsent was much more compelling.

[@Gungrave123]

Miquella being there at all felt shoehorned af, story wise.

[@Q35MM]

Nailed it. Everything having to do with Messmer and Marika was, unironically, masterful. I legit started crying when I got to Shaman Village, read the descriptions of the items, and put two and two together. That OST never fails to make me tear up and makes me feel a deeper appreciation for the Elden Beast half of the Final Battle OST While there are some interesting things regarding Miquella’s story, especially with the band and Mohg it just…didn’t feel all that compelling? Most already figured out months ago that Miquella wasn’t going to be the angel on earth he was portrayed as in the base game and it feels like the DLC narrative with him is guiding you to a conclusion you already anticipated, only surprise! Radahn’s here! For some fucking reason

[@Aerinndis]

The reveal about Marika's origin was by far more interesting than everything Miquella. As was Messmer in spite of his all too short of a role.

[@ZachStachelski13]

I agree 100%. Miquellas story is just the old cliche "maybe the nice guy with good intentions ISNT all that nice." And then they made him an incestuous femboi in a desperate ploy to make such a dull character more enigmatic.

[@ZachStachelski13]

​@@Q35MMlol I started crying from boredom when I got to Shaman village. "Aye yo are there any DUNGEONS in this DLC? No?

[@bdaniels4627]

Not sure why they didn’t just actually do it like Sekiro and attach the fragments to boss fights including side and mini bosses. At least the reasons for clearing dungeons would’ve been universal.

[@aryabratsahoo7474]

You'd be suprised you'd have to fight only 3 bosses to get to the final boss: Golden Hippo to enter the keep, Messmer for his flame, Romnia guarding the tree to be burnt. It would have been better if the other remembrance bosses would have dropped fragments, but instead you can get to a significant level without having to fight a single boss.

[@ssj4rit]

Yeah I understand incentivizing exploration, but who is gonna know to check behind pot #69 in village #32 for the 37th Scadutree Fragment? Makes more sense to have them as boss rewards, or make like 80% of all Scadutree fragments come from bosses and other 20% from exploration instead of the other way around.

[@itsinstinct_6756]

Idk if I fully agree with this. That worked in sekiro because it was such a combat focused game. Elden ring is focused more on the exploration so having them found by exploring makes complete sense. Sure some of them are very well hidden but if you keep your eyes peeled you’ll be fine. I found almost all of them without a guide and I’m generally not a very observational person lmao.

[@JellyJman]

I think it's because Elden Ring isn't just about the combat unlike Sekiro

[@spudermoth]

Because this would literally defeat the purpose that the base game set out to do, being able to explore and return to the boss when you're stronger. The Blackgaol Knight is the first boss in the DLC you come across. Imagine fighting him with zero fragments. How fun would that be? Players would be FORCED to fight him to progress and it would completely defeat the purpose that the original elden ring set out to do. I think Ratoskr lost the plot on this one...

[@RevanX77]

I think that Radahn is a symptom, not a cause. By which I mean the reason behind why people are dissatisfied with him is absolutely all over the DLC. That reason being that the DLC has almost zero integration with the main game. There is zero mention of Messmer anywhere in the base game. When people first heard about Rellana, they thought that it was a joke. The Scadutree and the Divine Gate and the veil over the lands are neither explained nor brought up anywhere in the Lands Between. In the vast majority of the new lore, we are adding complications rather than elaborations, with just a few exceptions. The base game did not hint at any sort of connection between Miquella and Radahn outside of the fact that Malenia fought him, which was the subject of rampant speculation. On the flipside of the coin, the DLC barely, if at all, touches on anything Miquella was doing in the base game. The Haligtree is not mentioned once. Malenia is only referred to by proxy as the mother of the forager brood and is only mentioned by name in the description of Radahn's armor. The Eclipse or what it was for is never mentioned despite Godwyn's Death Knights being present and on a completely inscrutable quest. You can have Miquella's Needle in your head and it goes unnoted. You can wear Miquella's tiara to Malenia's boss fight or her own armor to Radahn's boss fight and nobody says a word. You can have the Flame of Frenzy in you and Midra doesn't change at all, and you are still referred to as a Lord of the Old Order or of the Erdtree or of Marika by everybody. There's no explanation of whether or not the body in the cocoon is even Miquella. There isn't even a cutscene for entering the DLC, you just go through a loading screen and zone in. I've heard people, including you, say that the Godwyn stuff was always wishful thinking in the vein of Velka from DS1. Well to me the much more apt comparison to DS1 is Sif. If you went and did Artorias of the Abyss first and save Sif, then Sif's cutscene actually reflected that in the base game. To me that reflects a level of care which is so often absent from Elden Ring. In a lot of ways this DLC is the most polished and finely crafted piece of content FromSoft has ever put out, but it's also missing the polish and craft that I would most care about.

[@jaketinsley1987]

Well said. All factual observations

[@KingDarkness100]

No shit Messmer and Shadow land was hidden from the Lands Between you genius people

[@KingDarkness100]

@@jaketinsley1987 As factual as gods existing. I think you guys need Vaati to actually get anything from the new lore that is plentiful in the Dlc lmao.

[@jaketinsley1987]

Miss Chalice and SmoughTown are also pillars of lore knowledge. Stop simping for Vaati. Lmao

[@jaketinsley1987]

@@KingDarkness100 The author of the post explained his point in a clear well written well thought out manner. Its his opinion deal with it.

[@iamdoom9810]

I think if Radahn was the penultimate final boss that leads into a more original conclusion that people would have found that moment easier to swallow

[@josiahcmiller]

Where Godwyn at

[@thesexyshark1646]

@@josiahcmillerdead

[@abdieljove2011]

@@josiahcmillerDead. Literally had his soul erased. That boy is deader than dead.

[@socialjihad5724]

​@@abdieljove2011In a realm of magic and Gods, and an entire background story in the main game where Miquella was attempting to restore it through a Celestial event.... there's literally no reason they couldn't have followed through with that instead of, "I know we had plenty of breadcrumbs pointing to Miquella's affection and designs for Godwyn, but what if we just ignore all that and instead we decide he was actually obsessed with Radahn instead, even though that's not something even hinted at or that they even had any association with each other"

[@_thebigsteve]

100%

[@chandlerholloway3900]

I feel like after defeating Miquella and Radahn, he would at least say something? I thought it was weird there wasn’t any dialogue upon defeat, and then the cutscene is just a flashback and then… that’s it. That’s the end to this epic dlc? I still appreciate that cutscene lore-wise but it just felt off and didn’t stick the landing for me. Would have been interesting if the Tarnished did certain things or collected specific items like the Three Thirds Cords in Bloodborne, then we could walk through the Divine Gateway ourselves and leave it open to that. Still a great expansion.

[@dorianski4328]

I didn't even get a cutscene lol

[@Tengila]

That really sums up my feelings about much of the lore of this DLC. 'Wait, was that it?'

[@kenneyaf]

imo I just felt like Miquella is unable to say anything at that point because he doesn't exist without a consort. The silence presents itself in the middle of this massive arena as being a calm that's come to pass as a result of your efforts in the game.

[@plainluke722]

​@@kenneyaf meh

[@LAK_770]

I don't appreciate the cutscene, lore-wise or in any other way. It tells us and shows us basically nothing. The only thing you can glean from it is that Radahn is notably absent and doesn't give consent, but this is a stretch. It's not even visually interesting, it's just a pan around Miquella kneeling in an empty monotone room, there isn't even interesting set dressing. It's a flat, empty, low-effort piece of content that adds nothing and produces an enormous anti-climax.

[@DJosephRivas]

you can't throw in Song of the Ancients and expect to to listen to anything else thats going on. 10/10 review i'm sure

[@airhead4740]

Pling pling plong

[@LadyMoonboy]

Yeah right. Next time he’s probably gonna use Kainé Salvation or Weight of the World at which point I definitely won’t be listening to what he’s saying.😅

[@ufjbvhbk3313]

can anyone help me with the name of the ost playing in the last 30 s ?

[@leok4]

@@ufjbvhbk3313 Kings field ost, Dark reality I think

[@Kolket1389]

I want to get into that series, but I cannot. I watched a playthrough of Replicant, and bought Automata, but stopped playing it after about 10 hours. Gameplay felt too repetitive, and the story was ok.

[@epruno3583]

In the base game, Radahn presentation was amazing. The cutscene with the voice acting, the build up to the once strongest of the demigods, the overwhelming (at first) battle with the possibility to summon multiple allies on a full battlefield. I feel like it was a bad idea to bring him back. I can't help but compare the new version to the previous amazing fight. Worst, he was mad with rot, then we freed him, only for him to become a puppet zombie...

[@alexterieur8813]

exactly. He feels like he’s the most violated character. It would have been great that when we kill him, we got a murmur: « Finally free » from Radhan to expose how much he was tired of having his will stripped away. It would have been more tragic and impactful imo with just one line.

[@jprec5174]

Can't bring godwyn back because you're godwyn. *mind blown*

[@frewtlewps1152]

Here’s my idea for the final boss: If Miquella can control people to do things against their will, then I believe he could have manipulated a Demi God to be like Godwyn. Miquella could still use Mohg’s body and Radahn’s soul to make a consort like Godwyn, but not an exact replica. The lore could have been that Miquella wanted Godwyn to be his consort so badly that he’d rather have a fake Godwyn than no Godwyn at all.

[@epruno3583]

@@BulldogFromHell I mean he influences them to the point where when his influence vanishes they remember their purpose, as if they woke from a slumber. Take Thiollier for example, he was forced to follow Miquella instead of St-Trina. It does not seem to me as mere influence. When he grabs you during the fight, you get a sigil over your head. This is a magical power. Finally, maybe Radahn wants this, but since he doesn't talk more than when he was inflicted by rot, one could believe he his not himself, altough he could always have been a man of few words.

[@Cirkusleader]

@@BulldogFromHell Brother he quite literally has a move that mind controls the player.

[@alephnole7009]

Before I even watch this. From a lore perspective this dlc answered NOTHING. None of the questions I had going in where answered. All the bosses where just random people that came out of nowhere with zero reference in the base game. I don't even has an issue with the final boss being what it was, but it still came out of nowhere. Gameplay wise it's mostly good, but they weren't lying when they said they pushed the limits of what people and tolerate. Biggest complaint is that 90% of the open world despite being very pretty has no new enemies or even a good variety of old enemies. It's just shadow villagers and death birds in almost every new region/biome and nothing else outside legacy dungeons.

[@kadomaix8698]

Radahn’s story; from all of his lore we were given before and after the festival, to the festival itself was incredible and so well portrayed in the base game. The way that warriors from around the lands between gathered together to celebrate his life by giving him the honorable death on the battlefield the he deserved was near perfection. He is legendary. He didn’t need to have a place in the dlc, because his tale was already told.

[@socialjihad5724]

Yeah, I really don't know what this is supposed to tell us about Radahn or even (to a certain degree) Miquella

[@yawarapuyurak3271]

I have an "idea". It could be related to how George R.R. Martin wrote thr whole lore. Maybe everything was tied in a way that requires characters to reappear.

[@AWanderingSwordsman]

Yeah but we didn't get fight him in his prime and thats more important than the story IMO.

[@bofa722]

Yeah and the fact we got a prime Radahn yet didn't see what he was really capable of was baffling to me. I was so hyped to fight him, just to find out phase 2 is literally just him but with AoE spam and a couple more moves, and the twink on his back. It feels like a BS version of Twin Princes too

[@blumiu2426]

That would go under a personal opinion. I think too many people speculate and make their ideas canon instead of realizing the lore is always confusing in these games and DLC MIGHT clear things up. With so many more players now than in the past, there will be less takes focused on what's given and more fanfics and shipping from a more casual crowd. I figured many would grumble when things didn't pan out how they thought.

[@pattymikeb789]

My biggest issue with final boss is that we already fought Radahn in a super special and cinematic way in the main game. I want a final boss to be shocking and unique, ala Orphan of Kos or Manus. It cheapens the Radahn Festival for me and was an awkward note to end the DLC with.

[@Blaynkk]

i disagree. i think if you didnt get it spoiled you would've never seen it coming. miquella was in control the whole time and it was in the works from the first story trailer from the base game. u just dont appreciate the writing

[@SiphonRayzar]

@@Blaynkk Except, if you do the NPC quests, it's spelled out to you that Miquilla is reviving Radahn to be his chosen consort. Invalidating you're entire point.

[@TheChocoboWhisperer]

@@Blaynkk How can it be spoiled when the characters literally tell you it's going to happen? "Miquella was in control the whole time" is something I'd expect in a Star Wars prequel; it's just hackneyed. We also don't know whether the writers intended those words from Malenia when the base trailer released. There's no indication of it in the base game.

[@PuffnStuff117]

⁠@@Blaynkkyeah I think a huge problem is people are afraid to admit they spoiled it for themselves, and ruined it for themselves

[@DUNGSI27]

@@Blaynkk The game kinda threw it to your face half way into the Shadow Keep, if you follow Ansbach & Freyjas questline. The only thing that surprised me was that the final boss looked exactly like Radahn. I was actually expecting Mohg body with Radahn moveset. And quite frankly I might have prefered that.

[@SkullK---ht]

When it was revealed that miquella took mohg's body for the ritual I was expecting a more grotesque final boss, i think radahn looks too perfect and should have more mohg features

[@Plight_]

God damn the fight with Miquella's faithful was amazing though. A blood bath of everyone turning on each other fighting for what they believe is right. One of my favorite fights in the game for its lore alone

[@alexterieur8813]

yup

[@W1Robur]

The fight for me ended with me, my mimic, ansbach, and thollier all jumping Dane JJK style😂

[@ryankeith2712]

Yeah, easily the best fight for me in the game.

[@BulldogFromHell]

''Sad, forever?''

[@Plight_]

After the fight, after looting the dead for all their cool armor, ascending the stairs to stop Miquella there was a message that read "good work, monster" That's going to stick with me

[@38Jim]

Finding the Death Knight Armor set gave me so much hope man

[@BulldogFromHell]

Hope for a mermaid whose soul is gone and who died to a few human women?

[@thetimehascome874]

@38Jim real bro...

[@derekfrost7751]

@@BulldogFromHell the one who fought against the biggest ancient dragon and won

[@maniac7302]

@@derekfrost7751He fought Fortissax not Gransax

[@CyrodiilCome]

​@@maniac7302he defeated gransax as well. He's credited for defeating the dragons during their invasion. Fortisax just respected him for his strength

[@dustrose8101]

Radahn is such an odd choice for the boss because it feels like random areas of justification for him being the final boss are very sloppy for no reason. The memory after the fight is such a letdown because you'd think it'd be a lore reward for those who managed to pass the fight but like... nah??? Everything in it we already knew. And the godwyn/radahn debate is likely just bad signposting by fromsoftware. It's highly unlikely they changed the final boss from godwyn to radahn, especially since godwyn is explicitly permadead in the lore, but the associations with Miquella up against his at-present lacking connections to Radahn outside of the DLC set people up for a different payoff than was delivered.

[@Witness631]

I wish that the whole part of Miquella abandoning his flesh to ascend to godhood had ended with him placing his soul into Godwyn tobecome something beyond both life and death and really show the horror of his charm magic making people love a literal corpse

[@shreksmeatballs9435]

Yeah, I REALLY wanted to see a charm magic based boss. Imagine Miquella's soul in Godwyn's body, using both pure charm magic and corrupted death magic, would've been so cool. When I got the Rune of Miquella, which says "Has the power to resist charms", I got so hyped for the final boss. Got disappointed so bad. The only thing we had is that "Heart Stolen" grab attack from Miquella ( which is no joke the coolest part about the fight imo 😭 )

[@DisemboweII]

And then we fight them as a monstrosity - Miquella the Loveless / Godwyn, Prince of Undeath - after Miquella's tampering attracted the attention of outer gods... honestly, Metyr, Mother of Fingers was the most visually striking boss (and environment), and should've been the mandatory "Elden Beast" fight at the end of the DLC, not a hidden bonus boss fight.

[@thearchitectwarrior5409]

@@Witness631 That's so much cooler, and fits into the themes being set up by the new catacombs and gaols throughout the lands of shadow.

[@frewtlewps1152]

That’s an amazing idea! Since Marika lost her original body to become a god, then Radahn must’ve been another person that she now inhabits the body of. Miquella could do the same thing with Godwyn’s body, but because Godwyn’s body is still alive then it could go terribly wrong for Miquella.

[@gothxm]

I don't think this makes sense since Marika is aware of the powers Miquella is trifling with seeing as she was the first to ascend, why would she be on the brink at the start of the base game if she knew she could bring her son back

[@GoldenSunAlex]

"Somehow Radahn returned."

[@Hevvvyyy]

Stop it😂😂

[@shreddxxCA]

Too good 😂

[@narutofan4545]

I thought the same exact thing

[@arisumego]

literally though

[@chopsandtoots]

Literally my thoughts lmao

[@SkorBn]

I think that as a final boss, Radahn didn't fit the existing lore. Sure, Miyazaki pulled a bait and switch with Radahn and Godwyn, but it doesn't really work because of how Godwyn was built up. For example, it is established in Fia's questline that Godwyn isn't dead, but rather that his soul can't reincarnate into the erdtree- which is why deathblight is so problematic, because it's the reintroduction of actual death in a world where death has still been removed. Because of this, Fia- as a deathbed companion- sleeps with Godwyn so that he can be reborn via the mending rune. Furthermore, in Castle Sol and the Golden Epitath suggest that Miquella and Godwyn were close, which makes sense because Godwyn was akin to a sun, lightning, and gold deity via the Eclipse. Now in the DLC, we find out that Radahn promised to be Miquella's consort under a certain condition, most likely death, but this doesn't make sense. Not because it simply doesn't, but because there was no indication that Miqulla and Radahn spent time with each other. Whereas its made clear that Godwyn and Miquella were close, which made some believe that Godwyn was Miquella's first choice, Radahn second. But that isn't right either. The game is trying to demand that we believe Radahn was Miquella's first choice, which wouldn’t make sense because Miquella's whole thing was making the impossible possible. Miquella created the Haligtree from his own blood, rivaling the erdtree- he blocked the outer god of rot from hurting Malenia, he accepted the rejected of Marika's order within his group. It also tarnishes this very character: the only demigod that was actually good for mankind is instead another person hungry for power, using any means necessary to obtain it-- which includes cursing mohg, ordering Malenia to kill Radahn- which lead to the nuking of all of Caelid, and that everyone that had ever loved Miquella was under his spell. Sure, his charms were brought into question and was definitely a villainous trait to be introduced, but with the DLC, Miquella was essentially the worst of them all. And unlike Ranni, whose character was shafted due to the mistranslation of her ending, Miquella is just another horrible person we must face. Worst of all, people have begun to speculate that the night of the black knives was because of Miquella now. Specifically, Godwyn's death, which was bound to happen because of the lore this messes with during the DLC. Godwyn would’ve made more sense because of all these issues. Miquella, desperate to save his brother, charmed as many as he could to bring him back as his consort. Rather than suggesting that some of the worst atrocities being because of Miquella's desire for a consort- his helpful nature wants to save everyone, including Godwyn. It would’ve made more sense for the deathblight that ate away at Godwyn to do the same as Miquella, much how we all speculated that Mohg would corrupt Miquella. "Godwyn, Prince of Death" or "Godwyn, the Duskborne" would have been perfect for Miquella. In Miquella's journey, he finally managed to create bring Godwyn back, but the deathblight ate away at them both, maybe not leaving shells of their former selves- but rather both of them embrace natural death, or deathblight. Miquella's order is not only one of compassion, but one where death is properly restored. Is Radahn okay when you piece together the lore? Yes and no, it's not just about perspective but also about that it can only really make sense when you ignore the connections that are clearly Godwyn and Miquella (such as Castle Sol, that speaks of Godwyn and his Eclipse, holding a medallion to the haligtree). But perhaps more connections that weren't just retconned (like the Golden Epitath) or just added (like the battle of caelid) in the future.

[@SM-nz9ff]

No Godwyn can't come back b/c his soul is completely destroyed by the rune of death hence he needed Radahn now wtf how are you people so aloof.

[@SkorBn]

@@SM-nz9ff I'm going to assume you weren't being rude on purpose, so here: 1. "With this, Godwyn can take his rightful place as First of the Dead. And claim a second, illustrious life." -Fia 2. "I will soon lay with Godwyn. And it will surely stir within me. the new life of the golden prince, and first Dead of the demigods, as the rune of Those Who Live in Death." -Fia 3. "After Godwyn the Golden became the Prince of Death, the ancient dragon fought long and hard against the Death within its companion. Alas, victory was never achieved and its only reward was corruption." -Remembrance of the Lichdragon So, Godwyn is not dead in the way that we think. Marika's order is one where you literally cannot die. Also, Fortissax was not protecting a soulless corpse, but fighting off deathblight within Godwyn. His corpse is at the roots of the erdtree because they thought it would bring him back like everyone else, but destined death severs that connection. Because of this, he has to be reborn via the mending rune. Miqulla, who is quite literally creating a new order, could have totally found a way to bring Godwyn back. He literally put Radahn in Mohg's body, I'm sure he's smart enough to come up with something.

[@SM-nz9ff]

@@SkorBn Na its figurative like Marika living when you mend the rune normally. Its the world order. Marika isn't going to literally come back to life as your wife she is the embodiment of world order. That's what Godwyn "coming back" in his second life means. It means death is returning to the world. Also she is a Tarnished like us and just doing whatever she things is correct. doesn't mean the words she speaks is even true just like all sorts of NPCs who say things that we know are literally incorrect. The Dung Eater exists afterall maybe he's right In this case Godwyn is alive and is death root/death blight. His body is a part of the world order. He isn't and wasn't ever coming back like a boss his soul is totally gone.

[@DaimonasSupremi]

I think your way of presenting the problem is one of the most thorough and rings true with many of my own beliefs. You pointed out the whole caelid dilemma and this is the most jarring issue with the DLC lore, it just doesn't click. Also, many people say the DLC was good because it explained why Malenia fought Radahn. But that's specifically something that - in truth - we didn't need. Malenia fought Radahn in a time during which every demigods fought each other for power : Radahn vs morgott, Godrick vs Morgott, Malenia vs Godrick. And Malenia fighting Radahn was only logical. We didn't need a sorry excuse to explain why they fought. What is it going to be next ? Morgott fought Godrick so he could make him his consort ? The lore truly was a disappointment on many angles within this DLC...

[@societyman6591]

@@SkorBn I think this more or less hits the nail on the head. The DLC attempted to force Miquella into a mold that actively betrayed everything compelling about his character in the base game, and I’m not sure what benefit we really even got out of it. I think that the concept of a god so purely devoted to bettering things for the downtrodden that he actively overpowers the will of others, wounds himself, dismembers himself, and ultimately takes corruption unto what is left of himself is a fascinating concept with a lot of room for moral questions. Turning him into the catalyst for everything bad ever just feels like it’s worse than a waste. His current story detracts from the base game.

[@RevanX77]

"Easy to understand and easy to find" *Ymir looks at the camera*

[@DestructoVic]

Fromsoft needs to add some things to the plethora of empty spaces in these areas. It's a serious issue to scour every nook and cranny of an area and find absolutely nothing except maybe a smithing stone, or a glovewort.

[@43eyes]

You dont want thin beast bones and glass shards?!

[@FFFFPPPP]

@@43eyes We want all the glass shards.

[@erno6155]

Don’t forget the cookbooks

[@Gugu-Gaitan]

Definitely agree... The worst part of the DLC by far. Areas didn't feel rewarding enough to explore.

[@paullogan5627]

That’s entirely the issue with going open world. Huge scale but lots of useless empty space

[@BotBoy-un3pz]

You know the souls fanbase has turned into a cult when you need to preface any criticism with a preemptive "I think it's amazing, 10/10 and the best thing ever" before you say anything negative.

[@facundovera3227]

We can tell you're wrong because you can find mainly negative reviews of the DLC out there.

[@yourlocalhuman3526]

For real

[@opethmike]

@@facundovera3227 Now look at the reactions to them.

[@aaronapley258]

​@@opethmike Exactly! I love this series but not everything is 100% perfect and every game has something I would change if I could. FromSoft has built up a lot of goodwill with the fanbase, but stuff can still slip through the cracks because nobody is perfect.

[@finthechatboisqwq5602]

THANK YOU. I'm so tired of the 10/10 preface, because in a way it feels like a deflection of any meaningful critique past that point. It encourages the mindset of "criticism aside, the game is perfect", ensuring that those who actually take issue with the game are laughed out of the room. I take major issue with the general design philosophies of this DLC and find it to be a decidedly inferior experience to the base game, so it's incredibly frustrating to hear the endless onslaught of "best DLC ever made" in reviews and critiques. Not only that but calling something "perfect" or "10/10" inherently limits the scope of what's possible. It implies that we can't do better, and all issues you do find are just not significant enough to warrant exploration. It shouldn't be a hot take to hold one of the best-selling games of all time accountable for its mistakes (especially on the hardware performance side, which is borderline unacceptable)

[@mac2312]

The biggest issue with the story of the DLC is even after defeating Miquella, we aren't presented with any new ending, or meaningful story bits that sows everything together. You beat the boss, and are given a cutscene that doesn't tell you anything you havent figured out urself by doing the side quests in Shadow. It's disappointing and there are still loose ends that probably won't be tied up unless they are cooking another DLC

[@jjstraka1982]

No other From Software DLC adds a new ending. Not one.

[@victorprati7908]

Exactly. Newcomer to From titles​@@jjstraka1982

[@unknownredacted3513]

@@jjstraka1982 Would Ringed City count or no?

[@Jsch23]

which they arent and miazaki said himself they wont. so disappointed in that statement by him. i get it that its not all about the money with him and he wants to move onto other things...but elden ring IS his biggest cash cow yet AND people would go crazy for another dlc or elden ring 2 since there's so much of the story left untold and its just such a fun masterpiece of a game. i dont understand the logic in setting that aside.

[@gluelake]

@@Jsch23 we live in a world where companies milk franchises to death against fans' wish, and then there's Miyazaki

[@namirakira7138]

Let’s say Miquella x Consort needed to happen rather than a standalone Miquella boss. I can list a few candidates who have more precedence than Radahn as a consort. Imagine the imagery of an angelic Miquella on the back of Mohg’s satanic appearance. Or maybe introduce Miquella’s shadow. Or maybe Leda, who refused to die out of loyalty to Miquella, and reflecting the player and Ranni, Miquella picks a tarnished as his consort. Or as everyone is saying, Godwyn. Those would be better than Radahn just appearing out of thin air, with no established connection between the two. Radahn being alive does nothing for me, because they do nothing with him being alive again. Him being made from Mohg means little to nothing except some horns and one blood attack. The value of a ‘prime Radahn’ fight comes from a Radahn not ravaged by the scarlet rot, and yet this Radahn felt no different. He is supposedly revived, and yet he has even less personality than base game Radahn. He seems somehow more brain dead than the actual brain dead one. He has no personality, he has no dialogue, so what was the point?

[@sanjaychhetri5399]

Hack, they could have made his sister as his consort. I am talking about Malenia the blade of Miquella. sorry, for any grammer or spelling mistakes.

[@namirakira7138]

@BLVCKCVT-jc3vz Yeah, they sound like fanfics, but Radahn also felt like fanfiction, I’m just listing candidates who had more precedent

[@bearmtn7]

1. Fragments definitely should've been either more plentiful, or standardized like in Sekiro where you get power-ups from killing bosses. I personally had to use a guide from level 14 to get enough to get to level 20. 2. Absolutely, 100% agree. It was more confusing than mysterious. Also doesn't help that it's rehashing an old boss, which is annoying at first glance. It'd be like if, instead of fighting Slave Knight Gale at the end of the Ringed City, you instead fought a variation of Yhorm. In hindsight, the lore makes sense. However, in the middle of the fight, it's a bit jarring and unsatisfying.

[@FlyingFox86]

1. I agree. You really need to explore every corner of the map in order to find all the Scadutree fragments. This is not a big problem for me, as I tend to do that anyway. But in the base game you don't have to do that to make a viable character. Almost any weapon will work, and you can gain runes for leveling wherever you go. In the DLC, you really need to go everywhere.

[@cameronmcginley]

Exactly my thoughts. Sekiro is in my opinion the best game FROMSOFT have ever made partly because of how well balanced the game is. Killing bosses to get stronger gives you that feeling of satisfaction aswell as a universely useful reward for all builds that allows players to always be scaled properly. Another thing that frankly frustrates me to no end is the abscence of a feature in sekiro that allowed you to replay major bosses from checkpoints. Now i can understand it would be difficult for us to replay EVERY SINGLE OPEN WORLD BOSS but there is simply no excuse for not giving us the ability to infinitely fight rememberences/ major bosses. It just baffles me, since people including myself have wanted this feature since day 1 and considering they were releasing the DLC and a quality of life update a day before it would have been the perfect time to do it. As harsh as it is they either 1. Couldn't be bothered despite being able to incorporate it into Sekiro no problem or 2. They believe for whatever reason its not appropriate for Elden Ring specific style of play. No matter the reason, boss replay mode and the ability to perfect block should have been in the game from day one, nevermind 2 years after the fact.

[@bearmtn7]

@@cameronmcginley agreed, especially because Elden Ring is so massive. Running from boss to boss takes an extremely long time compared to Sekiro or the other souls games

[@thedoomslayer5863]

@@cameronmcginley Agreed. Sekiro is simply the superior game. Now i dont care about getting stronger stat wise. I find that boring. But sekiro didnt do the whole stat thing you either got good at the boss and mastered the parry system of that game or you did not. The combat was faster, more fluid, both you and the bosses had the same freedoms and restrictions, not having a stamina bar was a godsend, i could go on. What's funny is even if they add a sekiro like deflect mechanic in the form of that deflect tear it is still inferior to sekiro's version. In sekiro it didnt take stamina and your posture bar would never break if u kept perfect parrying. Also in sekiro you could see the enemy's posture bar unlike elden ring and perfect blocking also got their posture up so you could break their posture purely by perfect blocking them. It's a crying shame we went from sekiro to ER imo. ER is a step back in so many ways while Sekiro is their magnum opus. I hope myazaki is all tired out of souls like games and goes on to give us sekiro 2 or at least some sekiro adjacent game.

[@shaifs5072]

Outside of remembrance bosses, I lost a lot of excitement for bosses because there wasn’t much reward for bosses other than accomplishment.

[@russian_knight]

For me personally a big issue was how a lot of the items were just smithing stones or something else i dont really care about. There were parts I thought I'd find a cool new item or consumable and it just ended up being a couple +6 smithing stones

[@darealdovahkiin3652]

Great expansion but by far my largest criticism

[@epsilon1275]

That's ultimately a you problem though. They can not guarantee that the player has the smithing bell bearings, and with the quantity of the new weapons and ashes they HAVE to give you those materials, they've done it for every one of their DLC's thus far.

[@Frozenkex]

@@epsilon1275 No its not a "you problem" , the problem is that exploration is unrewarding and fromsoft knows most people dont need those resources. It's easy to just add the stones to merchants instead of undermining exploration. Although honestly they just probably have nothing better to put there, and that's an issue too.

[@geordiejones5618]

Am I the only person who appreciates the smithing stones? I upgrade everything, even what I can't use because I'll respec in NG+ so I felt like they did that for fans like me who wanna upgrade a lot. It was nice to not have to always buy 12 of every smithing stone and have some spare somber stones.

[@takubear88]

It felt weird going along a branching side path and picking up Somber 3s, but keep in mind there are a ton of new weapons and they all need to be upgraded too. I actually really didn't mind this thing at all. Elden Ring exploration was already very subpar, this was just more of the same. Very glad they didn't put items at the finger ruins or in the woods honestly, but it feels shit having a giant completely empty area.

[@jon040192]

One of the biggest issues I have with the reveal is simply a lack of interest in Radahn... He feels like the character I would have loved when i was 12-14 years old "he's the biggest and the strongest and the baddest- look at his character, he is HUGE and wears BADASS armour and is this great general" etc etc. This legendary warrior you have to put down in an honourable tournament. But as an adult, I'm just less enthraled with memetic badassery than I once was. I'm not saying they re-wrote it but it does feel like they at least went "Everyone loves Radahn, so let's give them what they want". It was fine as it was, we didn't need more of him- his story was well-told and nicely contained. You have enough hints to a deeper character and story to keep lore squirrels rooting around and with some grandiose visuals for enjoying smashing your face against. It felt unsatisfying to revisit a boss in that way and it is impossible to remove it from the knowledge of countless posts over the years about "what it would be like to fight prime Radahn". I hate the term fanservice, as it is overused, but it certainly smacks of that. It was narratively disappointing, which I found especially frustrating as I actually found myself becoming quite invested in this new world and story. I've played all the games and I have always enjoyed discovering/being told about the lore but it was never really a big part of my first playthrough experience- gameplay tended to be my main focus and then I would spend far more hours reading/watching lore info afterwards. But in this DLC i was excited and speculating as I went- I actually cared more about the world design and worldbuilding than the gameplay but as soon as I had the ending spoiled for me, I lost so much interest in getting to the end because I no longer cared for where it was going. It feels like the bad joke ending to the story.

[@djbeema]

I agree 100%. I think unfortunately a large contingent of the souls fan base has the emotional maturity of 12-14, so this will be satisfying to them. "Yooo we get to fight Radahn again? Badass!" I mean going by the neverending plague of finger but hole messages, or just an immature sex joke at literally every statue and dead body. There's a meme and then there's whatever this is. (And this is likely an issue with video game fans as a whole and not just souls fans, I don't mean to make it out like this community is worse than any other fan base)

[@anonymous01201]

I half agree because I like the new Radahn fight but I didn’t like that he was the final boss of the dlc for those reasons, wish he was the penultimate fight and there was something after that

[@tinminator8905]

The story is not about him, it is about Miquella. The only reason he was chosen was because he was the strongest and has no afflictions. That made perfect sense to me.

[@pileofcheese5017]

The biggest problem I have with the final boss is that there is too little surprise, not too much. Halfway through the game Ansbach & Freya basically say "Hey they're resurrecting this guy for Miquella" and from that point onwards you know exactly what the final boss is going to be. I expected a phase 3 to the boss, but there just wasn't, there was only anticlimax. Remember how in the base game , you know you're going to have to fight Radagon, that's a given. But then you're surprised by the Elden Beast (unless you paid AMAZING attention to some very fine details). Yeah, the fight against EB is god-awful, but the inclusion there is amazing. It hits that perfect balance between "I could've seen this coming" and "I didn't see this coming", and it raises some intriguing questions that get you thinking. Final boss dude over here, achieves the opposite. You can perfectly see them coming, but they don't make much specific sense. Anyone could've been Miquella's consort, and they don't really provide a reason for them to be, aside from "Miquella liked them I guess". And then afterwards, you don't get anything; it's just over. No second health bar, no nothing. And this just raises questions of the frustrating kind; what was this ritual even about then? Did Miquella just need one consort and one divine gate and that's it? Then what was all that business with the corpse with the stitched skin in the trailer about? Guess that doesn't matter anymore. Imagine if we had to, idk, fight that corpse that Marika pulled the Rune/Hairs from in the trailer. That would've been a fun twist. Anything at all would've been better.

[@socialjihad5724]

I think it's weird they didn't choose Godwyn given that there was so much lore pointing to Miquella trying to restore his soul/grant him a true death. As an aside, I actually think Radagon's reveal could be pretty surprising for most players... after all, the "Radagon is Marika" is hidden behind a pretty obscure and high intelligence puzzle.

[@Tyanus2]

Yeah and after you defeat them, nothing happens? Like you get a memory that they were in accord and I am like yes we know that, that's why we fought you to stop you xD, his circlet boosts intelligence, faith, and arcane by 1 (is that a joke?), and increases the power of Miquella's incantations by 10%, compare that with DS2 or DS3 DLC rewards and it's really weak

[@KingDarkness100]

No, it could not be anyone else. Radahn is literally the strongest demigod, and he is a kind person, not like most of his delusional siblings. Godwyn was the only other perfect Consort, but his soul was completely destroyed, so Miquella had to use Radahn instead. Also, Marika needed the same things as him to ascend to Godhood. The divine gate and her consort Godfrey, who did the same things for Marika as Radahn would have done for Miquella (deleting everything that stands against his new Order), I would go as far as to say that Radagon is Marikas version of St. Trina(Radagon and Trina are the opposite genders of Marika and Miquella which would explain how Radagon can be Messmers and Melinas father, besides Godfrey being Marikas first Consort). I mean, I get it. We don't know who or what that thing was that Marika pulled the hair strings from, but she betrayed the Hornsent people and sacrificed them to activate the Gate because the Hornsent tortured her people, the Shaman and Metyr and her Two fingers guided her, besides not getting any new messages from the Greater Will at all. They misguided her I would say.

[@AndrewTheUltraBoss99]

tbf it's the same for elden beast. radagon is a surprise, but if you did explore and found the stars spell you know about the beast. same for the other souls too: gwyn is a dead giveaway, gherman too, nashandra is obvious (not her being a skelly). soul of cinder is incredible tho.

[@AndrewTheUltraBoss99]

@@KingDarkness100 we do know. check the innards item (the one dropped by the vase blobs, idk how it is in english), it has strands of hair in the sprite. they ammassed people, tons of them, to ammass divinity. somehow, all that concentration is enough power to become a god.

[@Dark-Law420]

I haven't hit play yet, but here's the one problem I have. There are enough Golden Seeds in the game to max upgrade your flask without getting every single one. There are exactly 50 Scadu fragments while 50 are needed to max upgrade the blessing. I don't think I need to say why this is incredibly stupid. I think you all know.

[@TheFondalizer]

I will say the 1st 10 upgrades do way more for you than the next 10 so don't worry about getting them all. 15 should be more than enough and if you explore everywhere you'll probably find more than that. I agree though there should have been more.

[@vyor8837]

@@TheFondalizer ... 11-20 do almost the exact same though?

[@budafuka]

@@TheFondalizer That's after the first patch. The stat spread was way worse before they scaled it better until 14 and dropped off after that. Even the original spread wouldn't be so bad if they game had more than you needed or they didn't do that dumb thing they did with golden seeds where you need an x amount more than last time to upgrade. Just put only 20 of them on the map in obvious places like shrines/churches and make like 5-10 of them only acquirable as catacomb or gaol rewards. Please don't put them on hard to see mob enemies in the middle of a forest that run away before you even notice they were there.

[@chidori0117]

@@budafuka The first patch happened very fast though and changed exactly what you described just in another way o.O you now have the leeway of about 20 fragments that dont really give you much anymore. In practice its basically the same thing as having too many golden seeds exept that for people that DO like to explore the additional fragments actually do give a small benefit and are not useless. Why are you still complaining about stuff they fixed almost instantly. OK if you played the entire game during the first 2 days then maybe you were affected but did you really not want to explore during your first playthrough?

[@kokorochacarero8003]

If Ubisoft did this with their collectibles in open worlds, they would get clowned on for months (and rightfully so)

[@thegreatlemonman5209]

I feel like if the final boss actually said something it would've been a bit easier to accept

[@DrnMontemayor]

I wanted the Scadutree Fragments work more like Beads in Sekiro, and less like Golden Seeds, and that more bosses and super enemies drop them. I also wanted them to be more. I also wanted St. Trina to be more active, even though I like that Miquella's denial of her makes it about how childish and unwilling to grow up he is. And I do think that there was something missing from Miquella during the final battle.

[@cosseybomb]

Unwilling to grow up? Dude sacrificed everything to become a god..

[@notsorrystory]

Yeah finding an item on the ground shouldn't be the level up system. I think have guaranteed drops from big enemies and bosses, like you say, but I'd also add in random drops from strong enemies, too. That way people don't get stuck. You can still powerlevel up to a point. Maybe beating bosses as a summon has a random chance, too.

[@clokken]

@@BusinessSkrub they would only drop the first time so it can't be farmed

[@bofa722]

​@@clokken wtf is that guy on about 😂

[@Cy8erTron1x]

Idk, i grabbed the majority of scad frags as quickly as possible, about a third-half way through the dlc (story wise not exploring, i did as much of that as possible without fighting bosses) and i was at about 16 and I was still getting rocked by the bosses after, the damage increase is nice but the way they do resistance i felt like i wasn't getting anything but maaaaaybe one extra hit i could take.

[@Birbucifer]

BOSS SPOILERS: what really disappointed me was a lack of cutscenes for important bosses. bug lady and ESPECIALLY rellana deserved cutscenes. avatar, finger momma and bayle didn't need them tho, they were cinematic enough

[@bugsisland3061]

It was weirdly anti-climatic stepping into Rellana’s fog gate for the first time and she’s just there. I guess Castle Ensis isn’t really the most spectacular dungeon compared to Belarut anyways..

[@Birbucifer]

@@bugsisland3061 yea and don't get me wrong, the fight is AWESOME. but it just... feels weird without some sort of introduction

[@EraVulgarity]

Rellana not having her own cutscene I can understand. But Romina just having a simple cutscene a la Quelaag would’ve been warmly welcomed since they went the fan service route with her and all.

[@AgusSetiawan-mx1vq]

Not only cutscenes dude. As well as voice over. They just dont talk and sit there like random bosses. Especially Romina that showed up in the story trailer.

[@EraVulgarity]

@@AgusSetiawan-mx1vq I don’t think romina would be able to speak if she wanted to tbf lol

[@spreaknessi]

If there was a route where WE became miquellas consort it wouldve made his story far more compelling imo. That along with godwyn replacing radahn as his default consort given all the buildup. A prime Radahn being the boss just feels like fanservice.

[@AeneasReborn]

Cerulean coast and its accompanying red flower area were both needlessly empty and absolute slogs that showed the worst of the flaws of open world in the souls formula

[@Sohelanthropus]

Right on, right fucking on

[@Frozenkex]

I think the DLC has unusually large amount of those areas, i mean almost every area is like that besides legacy dungeons. I feel like they have an obsession with trying to make everything gigantic and big, its purely for visual and aesthetic reason. They want you to feel like an ant in the world and putting content there is afterthought.

[@Mo167ose]

@@FrozenkexI disagree, the only locations that felt “empty” were Charo/Cerulean, the Abyss and Jagged Peak. The latter two are excusable though because they’re designed as more linear segments, not fully open like the rest of the game, and they both do it well

[@Zyckro]

@@Mo167ose Yeah I agree with this. Charo's Hidden Grave and Cerulean Coast were the only two that seemed unnecessary. The other areas felt like they had substance and at least some visual variety.

[@duewest1987]

​@@ZyckroThere are more dungeons in Limgrave alone than the entire DLC.

[@jtdavis2393]

It may be because I have gone through the game a half dozen times, or due to the dlc just being big, but as much as I adore the expansion I cannot see myself putting in another playthrough to traverse the DLC. As cool as the intertwining map is, I feel as if it will be a chore to traverse in subsequent playthroughs.

[@travisgeorge1553]

I thought so too, as I was going through it the first time. Knowing how these sections connect through multiple pathways, actually makes navigating it easier than the base game. Also, sadly, there's a lot less you have to go out of your way for, since anything you forgot, can easily be looked up.

[@RedWolfenstein]

If I play it again Im using a mod that will just give me all the items like shadow frags right away

[@blackbomber72]

It is very fun a second time though, it isn't as big as you think it is

[@helmento]

Just started my second playthrough of the DLC, the scadutree blessing does actually carry over which was a big sigh of relief for mer

[@barrybones3166]

This is exactly the same feeling i had with the base game, but with the sacred tears and seeds. I really don't like the trade-off of extreme tedium in repeat playthroughs in exchange for better exploration ion your first playthrough. Having to go on a collectathon for each new character makes me feel like i'm playing an MMO, where i just turn my brain off with a video on my second screen. Maybe I'm just approaching it from the wrong perspective, but knowingly gimping my healing to do the stuff I wanna do like bosses and legacy dungeons also feels bad. There being a total of 20 scadutree levels is also insane to me.

[@eanderson9599]

They made radahn the final boss for meme purposes

[@valued_mussel0349]

Agree with all this. I wish, lore and story wise, it answered more questions but we all know Miyazaki is a "leave them wanting more" guy. I wanted more information about Miquella as well. And yes the final boss just didn't work at all. A head scratching moment for sure. I also think that putting Messmer on the cover and then he's just another story boss, I wanted more with him as well. But you know it's an excellent dlc when you start to get a little sad when you realize you're at the last legacy dungeon and that it's almost over.

[@Mango-cp1im]

To be fair From Soft never shows off their final boss in DLC promotional content. At least from what I remember

[@soarel325]

I think the issue with the story is less "didn't answer enough questions" and more "presents the final boss as the good guy and all the base endings as crapshoots, but doesn't let us join him".

[@elididde3377]

Malenia is the face of the base game, despite being a secondary boss as well. No one expected messmer to be the main focus of the dlc, it was made clear that the story was about miquella

[@hassanrao470]

Even if you don't think there were rtcons, I think it's safe to say there was some cut content that would've expanded the lore. Particularly with the Gloam-eyed queen, Melina, and potentially Malenia

[@jjstraka1982]

There is a massive amount of Miquella information if your brain is more than a bowl of oatmeal.

[@orzosobjective386]

I share your sentiment about the presentation of radahn. He is badass and I love the fight mechanically but I couldn’t help but feeling a little confused when meeting him there. Having already fought him in the base game also takes away some of the excitement as opposed to fighting someone new.

[@socialjihad5724]

He's also just basically a puppet/lackey of Miquella here, so it's hard to really feel something here... Radahn's real fight tells such an epic story of heroism and closure, and honouring Radahn with one last great fight. For the final battle, it's just Miquella we're trying to stop and we don't even know whether Radahn is a willing participant or not. Just falls flat

[@duvetboa]

​@@socialjihad5724we don't know if he's a willing participant or if he's been brainwashed. It's all up to player interpretation currently and I'm of the belief that the final cutscene is trying to imply the former.

[@socialjihad5724]

@@duvetboa I mean, the end of my comment literally specifies that we don't know if he's a willing participant or not. But I find both answers unsatisfying: either he has no autonomy(which is boring for obvious reasons), or he does, in which case I just don't believe this is in line with the character they established and whose story they ended.

[@duvetboa]

@@socialjihad5724 Fair enough, sorry I just woke up and have poor reading comprehension

[@FA-M-S]

My problem with the new leveling up system is that I personally took the words "Sekiro Like" by heart. I thought that by defeating bosses it would make me stronger, and not that I would NEED to search for them in (many times) obscure locations. I like to aimlessly explore the games that I play, when I NEED to explore to get stronger is no longer a pleasure, is a chore. Your suggestion of increasing the number of scadutree fragments can be easily applied by making bosses drop them (both main and side bosses).

[@boshwa20]

Doing this repeatedly with new characters is going to be a pain in the ass. Just entering the dlc and pulling out the grocery list

[@FA-M-S]

@@boshwa20 It is, I just started a new playthrough and the need to find all the upgrades again is ass. But to be fair, the new patch really made a difference on the return u get from each scadutree level

[@Red-nl4lk]

Agreed. I already said this under a lore hunter video. But the satisfaction of beating bosses is inherently tied to progression. The progression and satisfaction of beating bosses being so divided, aside from Golden Hippo and Gaius, i found jarring. Getting a measly level up from Dancing Lion after almost 2 hours of attemps was frankly painful.

[@FA-M-S]

@@Red-nl4lk It is quite baffling that from all of the DLC bosses, that freaking Hippo is the only one who drops a scudtree fragment

[@Red-nl4lk]

@FA-M-S Gaius also stores 5 of these things behind his arena. If they didn't want scadus to drop from bosses. The least they could have done is have more bosses that guard areas where scadus are available.

[@DUNGSI27]

While I actually understood why Radahn would be the final boss, and I actually enjoyed and understood Miquella's story before facing Radahn, there is no denying that the final boss should never be someone we have fought before, period. I think what they should have done is concluding the Miquella's story midgame,i.e. Having Radahn as a midgame boss, and focusing the second half of the DLC on Messmer. Other than that, my biggest criticism with Shadow of the Erdtree is the lack of weight I feel with many of the main bosses. Whenever I fought a base game boss I always get the feeling that I was fighting someone important. DLC bosses like the Dancing Lion, Rellana, Romina, or the Putrescent Knight are all solid fights themselves, but none of them has the presence & the impact that Maliketh, Godfrey, Rykard, (base game) Radahn ,etc. had. What hurts the most, in my opinion, is the lack of a cutscene, or even a name, for many of these bosses. This severely devoids them of a personality. Before fighting Godfrey for example, we got to hear the man talked, and we learnt what kind of a person he was, that he loved his son Morgott, and that he was an honorable warrior. Phase 2 cutscene adds even more, showing us deep down hes a babarian who lusted for combat, and that he believed only those with strength deserved to rule. The same can be said about other base game bosses. This makes me feel like I was fighting a real person, with a distinct personality. I cant say the same for, say, Rellana, or Romina, or the Putrescent Knight. As far as Im concern they are roadblocks with cool design & neat moveset.

[@Jbswe]

Romina was extremely forgettable and nothing special. I do agree we should have had more voice lines and cutscenes.. but I guess that’s what we get for a $40 game with two years of development vs $60 game with 5 years of development

[@kfaraujolake992]

The absence of cutscenes was really a letdown; it seems like this DLC was rushed and left unfinished.

[@DUNGSI27]

@@Jbswe I do hope they will add cutscenes in soe future updates

[@LayDownAndRot]

@@DUNGSI27 Add cutscenes in updates? There's stupidity, and then there this...

[@SyphoDiaz66]

@@LayDownAndRotLook, it’s a pipe dream that won’t happen ofc, but come on, it’s a nice as hell thought. Is it probable? Hell no, they would never do it. But fuck, it would be a significant improvement.

[@Mozzylver1]

I think the biggest missed opportunity here is Miquela's crosses. Imagine if, instead of just saying "here i left my right big toe", it was Miquela leaving notes about what he is finding in the shadow lands and how it's changing his philosophy. The cross that (in my opinion) adds the most to Miquela as a character is the one in stone coffin fissure. Where he abandons his love. Imagine if throughout the dlc Miquela talks about how bad he feels for the hornsent initially or his brother Mesmer, and then he slowly realizes what Marika went through and why she was so vengeful. But then maybe he gets more angry because it was Marika's order, her neglect, etc. That caused so much pain to Godwyn, Malaenia, the people of the lands between, and THAT is when he decides that he will create an order of compassion, even through compulsion. I just feel like the lore presented is done in the weirdest places (almost no boss cut scenes or dialog, that weird ending cut scene which almost feels like it should have been the intro to the dlc, not at the very end). I've got other problems with the emptiness of areas and the Scadu system but I got into Elden ring because of the lore (which is a nerd ass thing to say) so that's what I'm most disappointed in. Again, all the Hornsent, Marika and Mesmer stuff is awesome, so I'm glad for that. I don't know. We should let it simmer for a couple months, let Vaati, Smough, Zullie, Queelag and everyone else do their research and see where it stands then.

[@jeremytewari3346]

Dude the “I abandon here my love” cross was such a good moment because it really was like oh shit… he’s gonna be the bad guy. Torn on whether I would have wanted more on the crosses. On one hand, I think the love cross works so well because you’ve been reading a bunch of bullshit like “I abandon here my appendix” so when that one matters it hits, but yeah more characterization for them woulda been nice.

[@viljamtheninja]

@@jeremytewari3346 I think you nailed it. Letting Miquella just explain his thoughts in detail would rather go against the always somewhat sparse FromSoft lore drops. They're just doing what they've always done, giving you little hints and letting you put things together yourself. Even before that he abandons his *doubt and vacillations* - already in this tiny tidbit is contained everything that MozzyIver was asking for. It shows that he has learned a lot in his travels, that he has doubts about the justness of his cause, but that he lets his ambitions overshadow his doubts, his moral intuition. Abandoning his love is merely the final act of this. He has given up himself, not only in body but in spirit, in order to become a God - Miquella, like everyone else, strayed from his beliefs in the pursuit of power. And this is probably why he chose Radahn as consort. Not because he was more suited for his philosophy, but because he was the most powerful.

[@robertwalton434]

Sunbro here. The scadutree system is pretty bad for co-op. The boost from blessings are massive, but the team gets scaled down to the host’s blessing level. At low blessing, the host is getting wiped by putrescent knight before I can land in the arena. But at a higher blessing level, the host might not even need help. I don’t like 7 versions of the same fight, where it’s a dice toss if the boss is getting nuked or our weapons are made of foam and everyone gets 2-shot.

[@slaphappy-qb3jb]

I see this as an absolute win. Far too many hosts being carried through the game by level 709 phantoms

[@crestfallenhussar895]

​@@slaphappy-qb3jb That's not how co-op with randoms works. you get level matched. This is a whole subset of players we are talking about that just like to lend a friendly hand to strangers because "sunbros" were inspired by how Solaire helps you. not that people need help anyways these days with mimic tear.

[@slaphappy-qb3jb]

@@crestfallenhussar895 nobody plays with randoms anymore, or at least very few people. Most people password match their max level friends. I invade a lot, and 90% of the fights are against gank squads with their near max level friends, which you can determine from how many souls you get from them. Stats such as damage reduction and fp are completely unaffected by being summoned by a lower level player, which trivializes the base game. The fragment being based on the host is how matchmaking should have always been.

[@crestfallenhussar895]

@@slaphappy-qb3jb I ain't reading all that because you can't even read. Op told you how they were playing and why they were dissatisfied.

[@slaphappy-qb3jb]

@@crestfallenhussar895 I did read. They're mad because they can't carry as a high level phantom and the host actually has to git gud. If you're expecting me to feel bad because all the casual shitters can't hack it, you're going to be waiting a long time. $100 says you're one of the shitters that was crying about how hard the game was because your blasphemous blade or moonveil spam didn't work anymore. Sit down kiddo.

[@roberto9270]

My biggest complaints are: 1: The location of some skadushs are not intuitive, especially the ones dropped by shadow guys 2: No new dialogue with characters from the base game. How does Melina have nothing to say about what happens there??? Edit 3: I just remembered the red place. WHY does it exist??? There are only repeated bosses and nothing interesting or new. Loved the last boss

[@nicolaslabra2225]

also they can bug and you can be left with 19+ and your even increasing OCD haunting you for eternity

[@FSVR54]

Mine are boring open world, should've been all DS/BB style, no torrent. Some shit bosses like Putrescent Knight and Scadutree Avatar Not a fan of the scadutree system Enemy reuse and spam

[@FSVR54]

Also subpar legacy dungeons and a lot of boring DS3 grey aesthetic

[@QuantumTelephone]

Wait, what shadow guys?

[@Beemur]

@@FSVR54 seems like you just don't like fromsoft games...

[@Sari36YT]

The final boss has killed a lot of my hype for an otherwise surprisingly good DLC. It's not a git gud situation, it's a...this boss just isn't fun to fight situation.

[@Jbswe]

I found him so fun to learn to dodge his moves, he has some of the most satisfying moves in the whole game

[@AliAlkhodari]

I had a blast figuring him out, way easier than malenia but more satisfying imo.

[@Sari36YT]

@BLVCKCVT-jc3vz Who said he was hard?

[@Komod1no]

I agree I think is an ok fight but there are certain questionable design choices mostly in the 2nd phase but I still love the dlc is an easy 10/10 for me this dlc

[@tinminator8905]

I had to look up the cross slash, but once I got that it easily became my favourite boss of all time. It helps that I have a powerful PC though and didn’t have many performance issues.

[@bs7257]

For me the worst thing about Radahn fight is you expect the final boss to be a strong representation of the themes and concepts of the game. I think this is a massive part of why Slave Knight Gael is so loved, his character perfectly embodies the struggle and perseverance you yourself have gone through all to get to this point at the end of time. Godwyn as a character would’ve been such a poetic final boss to Elden ring. A powerful, sacred and revered lord and is now an empty husk who is the physical manifestation of death infecting everything he touches. His presence in the dlc even would’ve added another element to Messmers character with him presumably being Marikas 1st child but in the land between Godwyn being considered the 1st, literally the golden child. In the grand scheme of Elden Ring lore Radahn is a cool side character and even if the lore can explain him being Miquellas consort that doesn’t change the fact that it feels like extremely misplaced fan service.

[@KingDarkness100]

Godwyn can not be his Consort his Soul was destroyed with the Rune of Death there is no way to bring him back atleast not his true self unlike Radahn whos soul just got back to the Erdtree.

[@bs7257]

@@KingDarkness100 Elden ring has so many plot points that come out of nowhere and the community accepts them. Miquella was able to put Radahns soul into Mohgs body and everyone just accepted it as a possibility. If fromsoft wrote extra lore for the sake of plot convenience no one would care, something like the stars actually carried a material with them that if crafted into a needle could return a slain soul to its body. It’s already real lore that souls that suffered all manners of death go to the scadu tree

[@petercottantail7850]

Goodwyn would have been so much better as a final boss, the whole point of miquella was to get him a proper burial, a Frankenstein husk of him that failed could also work. but its just a repeat boss yaaaaay but this time has no adorable horse. really anyone new would have been better but they wanted a demon king/akuma looking final boss and radahn assets were sitting there for them to asset flip

[@OGking831]

@@bs7257 Fun fact Marika was able to put back Godfrey's body after he died. This is not the case where Miquella putting Radahn's soul in a body makes no sense

[@OGking831]

@@petercottantail7850 Fun fact Godwyn can never returned, and the only thing that keeps Godwyn from dying is the death rune inside him

[@a-man7422]

I'll reserve judgement on whether it was a retcon or not until Miyazaki inevitably gets asked about it. I'm not saying I expected Godwin as the final boss, but given his weird faces show up in dungeons, along with Death Knights, I feel like there may have been something more planned. My biggest complaint is it's basically confirmed Melina and Messmer are siblings, and she has no new dialogue or input on the story.

[@Mo167ose]

If anything Godwyn would’ve been even more of a retcon since it’d completely ruin Fia’s quest and the Age of Duskborn ending, since Godwyn was already brought back as the Rune of the Death Prince. They can’t just bring him back again and have two of him existing

[@mytsw]

@@Mo167ose Ending sequence did not actually happen during the events of DLC, see Midra

[@leighsimmons2663]

This also messes up Melina being the GEQ. Now that whole story makes no sense to me. Cause she was meant to be before Merika and we get nothing about her rule. Feels like a cope out and they backtracked.

[@Mo167ose]

@@mytsw that doesn’t inherently decanonize the Frenzy ending, there’s nothing saying there can’t be multiple lords of frenzied flame. If anything it’d be beneficial for the frenzy to have multiple, since it means there’s a greater chance one of them takes over the world

[@BulldogFromHell]

@@leighsimmons2663 Melina was never the GEQ.

[@YashMeasure]

Man the fact that they didn’t have it be Godwyn, just imagine the divine gate, with an eclipse looming over it. Not very original I must admit, but would have been infinitely better.

[@SM-nz9ff]

Godwyns soul is completely destroyed by the rune of death/ Imagine paying attention to the base game and understanding what completely destroyed means.

[@TehCakeIzALie1]

@@SM-nz9ff Godwyn's soul isn't "completely destroyed", it's _dead._ This is the whole point of Fia's questline and ending: his soul lives ('lives') in death.

[@SM-nz9ff]

@@TehCakeIzALie1 Uh no you don't understand what's happening in that. Godwyn does not come back in Fias questline like huh. You just put the rune of death back together and death is now apart of the world again. It says so right in this Mending Rune of the Death Prince. Godwyn has no soul his body is apart of the world now spreading death root. You aren't bringing his soul together you are bringing the rune of death back together. He's gone gone, hence he can't be resurrected by Miquella or anyone else. If he could then grace could have just brought him back like the Tarnished are resurrected.

[@SM-nz9ff]

Also to live in death is just what happens when the rune of death is removed from the world order. Its not supposed to be this way so that is what manifests like the undead in Dark Souls. Gwyn tried to have eternal fire but the world state is fighting against him. Same thing here.

[@YashMeasure]

@@SM-nz9ff everyone keeps saying that, since when does he need a soul for us to fight him?

[@ndroidryan7659]

I am PRAYING that this isn’t what Elden Ring ends on, especially after Miyazaki said there are no plans for a sequel. If this truly is the one and only Elden Ring, ending the game with this would be kinda disappointing. There are way too many things that don’t have an answer to, and too many loose ends. This DLC, while answering plenty of questions, was mostly just a “here’s an end to on specific plot point”, that point being Miquella and his quest for godhood. What about the giant death plague under Lyndell? Who is Melina, and what’s with her eye during the frenzied flame ending? Who was the gloam eyed queen? So many unanswered questions, itd be so sad for them to end without anymore dlc, lore, or content.

[@rangopistacho6928]

first things first melina is now believed to be messmers sister, secondly there are lots of mysteries that go unawnsered in from software games thats just how it is, three the gloam eyed queen was clearly someone whos rebelling against the erdtree and bringing them back would make maliketh and their destined death power look like a joke. some parts of the lore are better off not being awnsered and better left to be speculated over, for instance in dark souls 3 aldritch had this dream about the "deep sea" thing and we never really got to see more of it in the dlcs, from usually does not awnser everything in their dlcs

[@amysteriouspersonintophat1458]

@@rangopistacho6928 I think even when fromsoft leaves mysteries unanswered in their other games, at least the story is complete. I still think after the dlc elden ring's story isn't. I think for example knowing more about the gloam-eyed queen or about the plague under leyndell would fundamentally change your interpretation of the events of the main story in a way unanswered mysteries in other games wouldn't.

[@ndroidryan7659]

@@rangopistacho6928 the thing abt Melina is I saw a post saying that they removed the mention of a sister from Messmer’s kindling (haven’t been able to fact check this), so is that even canon anymore?

[@Mo167ose]

As for your Melina critique, they probably wouldn’t have given an answer that only pertained for one ending, and the DLC all but confirms Melina is Messmer’s sister through an item description (I forget which one)

[@ndroidryan7659]

@@Mo167ose It’s Messmer’s kindling, but according to a post I’ve seen, as I said, I haven’t been able to fact check this, they got rid of the mention of Messmer having a sibling. Can we even count that as canon anymore?

[@SlippySouls]

I agree with everything you said ! There should be ATLEAST ONE item description that is about radahn and miquellas connection in the base game

[@valentinchappa6702]

I like the cookbooks too, but in the base game cookbooks, gave you at least 2 recipes. In the dlc the they have artificially stretched out the cookbooks, by having many of the cookbooks give you 1 recipe. So that they could distribute a good chunk of the blessings past Shadow keep. Which is ass.

[@chrizzlyx]

Why did Miquella ride Torrent? Or was it a different spirit horse?

[@aldrichunfaithful3589]

i haven't played the dlc yet but wasn't torrent miquella's horse? i remember that being a thing

[@amwazdraws6890]

I think it was a different one. It doesn't have the bags on its back like ours.

[@chrizzlyx]

@@aldrichunfaithful3589 it was speculated since we saw promo art of miquella riding torrent a year ago. But no mention ingame and in the DLC no reference either. Also no cosmetics for torrent :(

[@unipachu]

The DLC also didn’t really touch on Marika’s rise to godhood even though it was a major part of the story trailer. I also wish they had told us more about Messmer since now I feel like he’s the least developed demigod even though he was a major part of the dlc’s marketing.

[@abdieljove2011]

@@unipachuThe DLC revealed a lot about Marika’s motivations though. Even if it left massive, massive questions.

[@infintypotato495]

The blessing system feels like you regress to then regain your power from the base game and I hated it, I'd rather not feel like I'm weak with an endgame build. As well as the fragments themselves made me stop caring about anything that wasn't them and I ended up beating the dlc and not wanting to go back since it all just felt like a waste of time and in every other souls game I always kill all bosses (main bosses in elden rings case). The biggest issue is there is zero replayability with this system as I'm not going to run around for multiple hours to collect shit in order to fight bosses in a fair state, anyone who compares it to Sekiro has never played it more than once if at all since you don't ride around for hours at a time to collect prayer beads, since the game is much smaller, the detours don't feel bad at all and you don't need to get all of them to feel like the game is sufficiently balanced. The final boss being... spoilers ...Radahn is so disappointing it's not funny, personally I think his second phase is stupid difficult not remotely fun but if it had been a new character I'd be way happier even if it was the same mechanically. It felt like they reused a boss from the base game and made the dlc not feel worth it at all. Game mechanics-wise his second phase just feels like spam in general which isn't fun, we've had bosses that had similar mechanics but the way it was done with Radahn felt like just pure spamming of light to blind me and piss me off. It took me 272 deaths to beat him solo with no cheese and I might never fight him again because it's not fun to go through his first phase to then die 10 seconds after his nuke from everything he (once again) spams. Also probably the most disappointing ending to a boss fight ever, every single boss in DS1, 3 and maon bosses in base game ER feel satisfying after besting them but Radahn started and ended with disappointment. Overall the DLC at its best which is just Messmer is a 10/10 but at its worst is 4 or 5, the dlc is a 6 or 7 depending on my mood. Every DLC fromsoft has released before this is better and I hope they never make something like this again. I will be using cheat engine to give myself fragments if I ever play it again and will be killing Messmer then leaving, the best thing about the DLC is the new weapons that I will also cheat engine into my inventory so I can actually use them before the end of the base game. My expectation that a fromsoft DLC will be better than the base game is now completely false and I will have lower expectations from here on out.

[@rodrickstark8516]

@@infintypotato495 Exactly my thoughts. I have played every Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro, I am a FS and Miyazaki fan. I think some fans just cannot accept when a genius makes a mistake, the ending of this dlc was the mistake. I literally had no problem whatsoever with anything in the dlc other than the extremely empty open areas and the ending. Like, seriously? Not even a single line of dialogue for Miquella addressed to the Tarnished after we beat him? Nothing about us killing his sister? After he tried pretty much evrything to cure her???

[@The300Player]

If Radahn was a secret optional boss like Malenia people would be extremely hyped but as a final boss it just feel so disappoiting that the final boss is a guy we already fought, yes this is him in his prime but it is still Radahn. I also really hate his second phase i think its really bad because you can't see anything most of the time since you're constantly getting flashbanged by the rays of light.

[@ZachStachelski13]

Also, nobody else has mentioned this. But Promised Consort Radahn isn't well animated. He slides around on his feet and looks stiff as a board. A real farcry from the original.

[@djbeema]

Would've been nice if "Radahn in his prime" felt any different than rotted Radahn.

[@GamingSlippers]

Many of my top games of all time are open world, and Elden Ring is one of them. But I think From's strengths just shine brighter in a more linear style. I am not against them re-visiting this style by any means. I really liked Shadow Keep and how it led to many different areas. I hope they build on that DS1 style design that they had at points in the expansion.

[@Sohelanthropus]

The thing with how From did the open world is that, it's peak gaming at first, but after a couple of hours it becomes a chore, and even more so on consecutive playthroughs/characters Meanwhile, I never get bored of making a new build on DS3, BB or DS2, never - but ER however, its open world is just so damn boring and empty after your first playthrough

[@eliasfigarzon9813]

I agree with you on this one completely my dear friend. I would love to see an elden ring 2 but with a better and most sustainable open world that can hold itself up after the first play through, just one play thorough and on your second run, there's almost no replay value unlike the other games. Overall the dlc is still fun and enjoyable, along with the base game. 8.5 is the best score the dlc deserves.

[@tombadil64]

​@@SohelanthropusInteresting, I had the opposite experience. I've beat ER at least 15 times, way more than I ever replayed the other souls games. Only beat DS1 twice, BB once. Maybe I'll go back and play them, but I never understood why people said ER wasn't replayable. It was literally the most replayable game I've ever played.

[@bofa722]

​@@Sohelanthropus this would be solved if there were more and faster ways to get around the map like the teleporters in Caelid and the Physick church Make them be behind very difficult challenges like enemy gauntlets or platforming sections so most ppl can't cheat progression until they're high level or really good (i.e. after your first playthru at least)

[@jamesn0va]

This exactly. Ds3 ect you are always playing the game. Eldenring you are running to the next small bit of content you need to engage with.

[@carlucioleite]

I am unhappy with the lack of answers for many of the questions we had. The scooby doo system was a questionable idea at first and the implementation surprised me for how bad it was. The final boss is not satisfying as they prioritized spectacle over mechanical enjoyment. I hate that Radahn can unleash super poweful combos at the player and, even if you deal with it perfectly, your reward is a light attack with a rapier. Some of his attacks can't even be punished at all unless you are using things like raptors of the mist. What is the point of those explosions at the start of phase 2 and 3? There is no gameplay to them at all.

[@KhangNguyen-ij4xh]

And he hit like a truck for someone who is as aggressive as a kangaroo. Usually if bosses hit like a truck they are sluggish as fuck but also tanky as well (see Nameless King or Fume) to draw out an endurance fight and if bosses are aggressive like a kangaroo they either hit like wet noodle in a single hit or they are squishy or they have no poise to force a race to the bottom Radahn just said fuck it, bake the cake and eat it as well. That’s why he’s unfun to me

[@thetimehascome874]

Ngl phase 1 was a 9/10 then phase 2 came and I was just like "why" so much shit is happening on the screen felt like a modded version of phase 1

[@dynamicflashy]

@@KhangNguyen-ij4xheat the cake and have it as well* But you’re right. Things also why I like Maliketh: he does an obscene amount of damage but he’s squishy.

[@ZachStachelski13]

Waiting for long combo strings only to get a single attack off in retaliation is something I really hope they move away from. I like doing damage sometimes!

[@Vashetrockner]

@@ZachStachelski13only if you have a parry mechanic like in Sekiro , super aggressive enemies make sense and are a joy to fight. My stance on elden ring is, that they don‘t get that people want to play builds and not want to counter mechanics. All should be reasonable doable with walk/run/dodge. Opting for guard and parry (or the spontaneous block bottle) should be optional but advatagious, if you invested in them. And Radhan also has other problems. His miquella cloak obscures his body and movement together with the aweful camera. Slave Knight Gael is the go to boss in terms is peak difficulty. But fromsoft have to invest in talent to make their camera smarter. This is just not acceptable anymore. Monster Hunter for example is peak camera.

[@chan4est]

I’m also upset that there’s no extra equipable Great Runes that you obtain from the DLC. Surely they could’ve made Messmer and Miquella have them. Final fight should have been Godwyn too.

[@fernandofaria2872]

I have many other complaints: - No underground/sky map 😢 - New weapon types, but only 3-4 of each - Throwing fire pots at furnaces with armored legs is not fun - Ensis castle was very bland. - Performance issues - The way to kill winter lanterns is dumb - I don't want to play the whole base game again to get everything in the DLC, because you have to play it twice to get everything. Let me NG+ the DLC separetely. Why is that so hard FromSoft? - Finger ruins were lame - Still many many many lore questions left unanswered. - Things in the trailers that are not in the game (the dancer fight is now in the mausoleum, for example) - Extremely unerwhelming ending. I cant even climb the freaking stairs to the divine gate to enjoy the view 😩 - No interesting torrent upgrades - No new great runes - Reused lion dance fight in the ruins - Probably more that im not remembering 🤔 9/10, I still enjoyed the DLC a great deal, but Old Hunters is still king.

[@Moody.Smiruai]

Old hunters was not that good. Ringed city and SOTE are much superior. Bloodborne didn't even have an invasion boss and reskinned one of the DLC bosses (Laurence) making one of the worst fromsoft bosses. Stop the glaze.

[@fernandofaria2872]

@@Moody.Smiruai Lawrence has the best OST from any FromSoftware game EVER. Now, I _could_ count how many reskinned bosses Elden Ring has, to make a fair comparison, but there are so many... it would take hours 🥱

[@MrSignman65]

@@Moody.Smiruai It has the best music FromSoft has ever made. Orphan, Maria, Ludwig, Laurence, even the LIVING FAILURES are impeccable. Hell even Living Failures, a pretty mediocre fight, has a moment of pure beautiful cosmic spectacle during the Phase 2 transition. Ludwig, Maria, and Orphan are some of the best bosses From has ever made. There's basically no empty space or reused fights. And, most importantly, it's satisfying narratively. It sets up and pays off important parts of the lore, Gehrman's apprentice, the first Church Hunter (who was massively foreshadowed in the base game), the founder of the Healing Church, Kos and her importance, and putting the tormented souls of the Hunters to rest. Calling Laurence (an optional lore focused boss) bad when Radahn, Consort of Particle Effects, exists as the required final boss and actively retcons and messes with the established story for fanservice is particularly hilarious. (The music is good though, at least!)

[@thegodofsoapkekcario1970]

Throwing fire pots at the furnaces takes like 4 seconds bruh, the finger ruins are lame and should be smaller, and FromSoftware always changes enemy locations like the Dancer. If you look at the original Elden Ring gameplay reveal, you can see that you fight Elemer at Stormveil and fight the chariot on top of a castle wall, which you don’t do in the final game.

[@slipperyslim6805]

I find it so out of left field to see Radahn again. Not only are Ansbach’s and Freyja’s quest missable, but if you do not pay much attention to the game, you may not put the pieces together as to why a boss the player HAD to kill to enter the DLC is back.

[@duvetboa]

Idk man when I play these games basically every boss I meet is out of left field. Just killed the sunflower dude because I stumbled randomly into his mansion and I'm not even sure why I had to do that.

[@Blacksmith__]

Whether or not the part was ever intended by any of the developers to go to Godwyn, seeing him restored to his prime would've been much more interesting than seeing Radahn restored. Radahn doesn't even get any dialogue, he just grunts like a beast the same way his rotted husk did in the first fight.

[@JayJayYUP]

Finally someone makes the proper critique of the last boss. And that no one cares if the lore actually ends up lining up, the problem is, no one finds this apparent, or pleasantly surprising, thus a first run playthrough is a failure at that point.

[@SyphoDiaz66]

True, but upon further analysis, it does recontextualize a lot. For some, it wilm be for the worse, but to me, I do see how it thematically lines up with even the Base Game’s themes.

[@eser8167]

@@SyphoDiaz66 I'm interested, which themes do you mean?

[@jmell458]

I've said it elsewhere, but I think my main problem with the final boss is that they gave Miquella the power to make anyone do anything, which essentially removes all tension from every character moment in the game. Because we've had no demonstration of the limits of Miquella's control, everything can potentially be retroactively explained with 'Miquella made them do it'. I think that's why, for me, Radahn feels so out of place, even after hearing Ansbach's dialogue beforehand. It's not a twist to see Radahn paired with Miquella when we remember that Miquella can make anyone do anything. It could've just as easily been any capable warrior in Radahn's place. What I think might have been better is if we had some limits to Miquella's power so that it leaves us questioning whether Radahn actually wanted to go along with it and whether defeating Miquella is the 'right' thing to do. In this way, Miquella more accurately reflects the player as we more than likely share the same goal of ending the current order for something better. I think that then puts us in a similar position as the previous end bosses like Soul of Cinder and Gael, where it's a reflection of the player and their journey. I think thematically the game and the DLC seems to be making the point that becoming a god/leader always costs something of ourselves, no matter our intentions. As the player character, we kill a lot of beings to become stronger, even though our broader intentions may be positive. This is parallel to Miquella who wants a gentle rule, but in the process commits several atrocities like mind controlling people, and resurrecting Radahn in a humiliating way to Mohg for (possibly) conquest and war.

[@cyclic_infinity]

I'm going to play through again and not mess up NPC questlines like in every Fromsoft Game with semi-arbitrary lock points and triggers, however I do think that limits are reasonably laid out. We have to be actively touched by Miquella twice, after ascension, to be charmed in the boss fight. IIRC from NPC dialogues, he cannot fully subvert people's will or personality, only guide their existing tendencies into aiding him. Notice he has no converted Erdtree faithful in his entourage, other than maybe Freyja though she is a Redmane first and all else second. All others are heretics in one way or another, which is perhaps why he is associated with outcasts. That is who he can charm, since they are already abandoned by the existing order.

[@jmell458]

@@cyclic_infinity I think the physical contact is the only requirement, which is a weak limitation. Radahn was also the most devout Golden Order fanboy though, so although I like the heretic part, I don't think it's necessarily correct.

[@metalface_villain]

they could have done anything and it would have been better than the radahn story. miquella could have just tried to get us as his consort and we could have an lsd-fueled mind battle or some crazy stuff to beat his charm. miquella could have tried to resurrect godwyns soul in mogh's body but things could have gone sideways since godwyn can't be revived and maybe we get some cosmic horror type of battle with the undead god of naivety.

[@jmell458]

@@metalface_villain Personally, I think I wanted to see Godwyn's body used instead of Mohgs since Godwyn's soul is gone and that would be technically 'ethical' for Miquella to do. Then the soul he uses for the body doesn't really matter, but the final form should look way more like its body (there's no reason for Radahn to look mostly like Radahn imo). Then everyone wins, we get grotesque Godwyn, we get someone's soul manipulated by Miquella, and we don't necessarily get Radahn Pre-Alpha

[@cyclic_infinity]

@@jmell458 Absolutely fair, I think it's something that will get the Lore Video treatment once we're far enough out. I definitely think it's a nebulous point with multiple interpretations that work.

[@lylepapps541]

What’s interesting is the item description on the double axes you get from the death knight. It explicitly states that Godwyns body is a surrogate, not his real dead body. So there is more to uncover for sure

[@balthasarirvine1295]

Woah, that's a massive piece of lore to drop Really makes me think maybe Godwyn was planned to be the final boss after all, and they just left this reference in, I honestly can't think of anything else that "surrogate cadaver" could mean

[@AC-hj9tv]

Yooo 😲

[@justin8865]

I absolutely agree. To add they did nail the marika lore though. That was awesome

[@kurtgardner7152]

I enjoyed the first half of the video, I won't be watching the second half yet as I haven't finished the DLC and have been enjoying being fully blind so far, I look forward to coming back

[@bofa722]

Dude delete your comment before some POS spoils it for you 🤦‍♂️

[@GG-ou7it]

Final boss is Torrent

[@bofa722]

@@GG-ou7it Patches*

[@GG-ou7it]

@@bofa722 my apologies it is technically patches and torrent fused together after patches tried to consume him to reach godhood very deep lore. “Aaaaa torrent you were at my side all along” patches does say in the beginning of the fight.

[@bofa722]

@@GG-ou7it yeahhh. Now onto the more pressing matter. Would the fusion be named Parrent or Torches?

[@PurpleIsAmazin]

12:30 The problem with this is that we didn't need an explanation for what Malenia was doing in Caelid. It was the Shattering War. They were on opposite sides of said war. This was never some sort of mystery, we didn't need any justification beyond that. Like the rest of the final boss lore introduced in the DLC, the armor set is just another bit of text written explicitly to justify a forced and nonsensical plot twist.

[@mrdeanypants]

This was what I was thinking. I never had any questions around that - the Shattering was a war where the demigods fought for control, and because Malenia and Radahan's final bout ended at a stalemate, no one ascended to the throne. That's how I always took it, and it now being part of a bigger mystery that we didn't have any evidence of earlier feels... confusing.

[@bardiatalebi3649]

You're completely wrong because there would be a GIGANTIC plothole, and that's the fact that on the way to Caelid, Malenia defeated Godrick yet she let him keep his Great Rune. So she couldn't have been there for that. She was there for Radahn and Radahn only.

[@joeyg1315]

​@@bardiatalebi3649 bingo

[@SyphoDiaz66]

@@joeyg1315Yeah, agreed. That was actually a massive mystery that did not make sense in the Base Game. Edit: To add on, it would actually conflict heavily with Malenia’s Established Motives. I don’t really believe she would have any reason to even partake in the Shattering War without this DLC, because she wasn’t after the Elden Ring or any individual Great Runes.

[@enchorialdude2721]

I like how every video where somebody is making a minimum of negative criticism about Elden Ring has to start with praising the game so the hive-mentality mob doesn't come out with the torches +10 and the pitchforks +25.

[@lokengarviel5742]

Right on.

[@Enigmata23]

I dont think you can rate something a 9.9/10 when it has such obvious issues as you've mentioned. People need to be okay with rating a game a 7 or an 8

[@Caleb-u3u]

Feels like people are scared to admit that criticisms warrant a lower score.

[@Niyariii]

@@Enigmata23 Something I’ve noticed from fromsoftware fans is that they always preface any criticism with “Oh I love this game, it cured my depression, saved my marriage, and cleansed my acne. A true perfect kino masterpiece beyond all, but I have this teensy weensy problem with [Core game mechanic]” It’s a community completely adverse to criticism, they’re too busy smelling their own farts and calling themselves god gamers

[@ZeroRulz0]

I think most would agree that it isn't a 9.9. but most fromsoft sluts are too busy sucking each other off to ever acknowledge it. Like the tree fragments...the reason why most people found the DLC "too hard" is because the game never actually explains how important these fragments are. And as for his last point. I don't think he understands the lore lol. Like the whole reason why Malenia and Radahn fought was because Miquella wanted to sleep with Radahn And the whole point of bringing Radahn back using Mohg's body was for that purpose lol

[@eser8167]

@@Niyariii I've noticed that this is generally what happens with any community that is both huge and adores the thing they are interacting with while also having a large number of haters that don't give the game/show/musician a chance. Basically the moment someone inside said community raises a point of criticism, the other members identify the critic with the external haters, possibly because they see the thing they adore as part of themselves, and whoever says something bad is invalidating them. This is when exclamations like "you are just too stupid/bad/gatekeeper", "you are just a salty [different thing] fan" or "you are blinded by nostalgia" start flying. I have seen this with things like One Piece, Souls, Monster Hunter and some bands and rappers. It is truly awful to try to engage in a legitimate discussion without declaring your undying devotion or being as roundabout and vague with your arguments as possible.

[@kokorochacarero8003]

​@@Niyariiibecause every minuscule instance of criticism gets smeared and strawmaned as comming from a lack of mUh SkIlL, even when the criticism has nothing to do with difficulty and more so with narrative, pacing, overall enjoyment, etc You have to present your soulsborne credentials as a preface everytime you want to say anything that isn't 100% blatant praise of the game, and even then, some impbrains would come up and swat it all aside with git gud before fully reading the first sentence

[@iago9711]

"Somehow General radahn has returned..."

[@gg2fan]

You're tripping if you think the final boss was okay. It is inexcusably bad. If Fromsoft continues to design bosses this way in the future, god help us all.

[@SM-nz9ff]

No need for God to help you just use the mimic tear and understand you're been surpassed. Its ok its why its in the game

[@SM-nz9ff]

@@AEIRSTO Bed of Chaos isn't hard

[@SM-nz9ff]

@@AEIRSTO Nope just mocking you 💀💀

[@cloudbloom]

1:54 agreed, I love all the fromsoft dlc's but think the original Dragon's Dogma had one of the best dlc progression systems I've played

[@Uriseph]

Dark Arisen is probably the best dlc/expansion I’ve ever played next to Wrath of the Chosen.

[@minespatch]

@@Uriseph Finished Bitterblack Isle a week ago. I love how the island has a ng+ feature in base game. You get to fight the same final boss but with a second phase. It's really rewarding in both exploration and lore. It's a shame that people question me "playing a old game" when more people should play Dark Arisen. I also recommend finishing both modes of Bitterblack Isle before finishing base game, the added context to the lore helps makes the ending of the base game way more meaningful.

[@naota909]

Most reviewers: "Game can be cheesed so its not that hard" = 10/10 wtf

[@pattymikeb789]

Lore wise for final boss, my thinking is that Miquella did want to revive Godwyn like we see in Golden Epitaph and Castle Sol, but ultimately could not. Makes sense he would choose Radahn but it comes out of nowhere in this DLC with no hint of Miquella and Radahn interaction in main game

[@Areis1997]

Talk to other npcs they all hint at it throughout your journey

[@bpmfj5422]

​@@Areis1997 he said "in main game". Talking with the NPCs that are new and appear on the DLC is not the main game.

[@Molimo95]

The writers just arbitrarily decided that Miquella couldn't revive Godwyn. Nobody would have betted an eye if in the DLC we find out that he found some new, different way that actually works.

[@antobatta1551]

Miquella never wanted to revive Godwyn. Castle Sol has NOTHING to do with Godwyn. Let's not confuse things. Godwyn had its ending and the Eclipse was about Marika's unwanted children set to be sacrificed

[@antobatta1551]

​​@@Molimo95You can't revive something destroyed. Godwyn's soul did not go to the Greatroots, it was destroyed. We already had these cringe retcons with Dark Souls 2 Lord Souls reincarnation and people complained because of it

[@goreycarousel9689]

I totally agree with the number of Scadutree Fragments. I want to replay the DLC with all my other characters, I do, but I also *dread* the thought of having to collect each and every fragment and spirit ash.

[@SubiKinubi]

Grand or glorious merchant, you’re welcome, oh unless you’re on console…

[@TheSeth256]

Tbf, after 13th level the progression is minimal, and it's not that hard to get to 13. I got to 17 with no guides for where these fragments are.

[@Kurppalumppu]

Damn, empty areas truly are essential to the best DLC created by human hands. If only I could have seen it sooner, thanks for enlightening me. The boredom I felt as I traversed across the pointlessly large and mostly empty areas of the DLC must have been my fault, for I failed to properly appreciate "the best DLC created by human hands". I truly apologize.

[@grimquest5054]

After beating the DLC a few days ago and let it sink it, I still dislike the final boss. Storywise, it should have been Godwyn. The base game gave us quite some information on how close Miquella and Godwyn were and traveling to the realm where the souls of the dead are kept to make a final attempt to resurrect him would have made absolute sense. Radahn felt like a fanfiction insert

[@TheKataykan]

One thing that I don't see many people mention is that we know that Radahn's people, and consequently Radahn too, love and celebrate war, which is something that only brings death and misery to the people, and they put him as the chosen one of Miquella to be the lord of an era of compassion because now they decided that Radahn is a kind guy with a good heart? one thing doesn't match the other...

[@zx9203]

Which makes me believe that they brought him back as fanservice since his fans are so loud.

[@hesserk]

they don't celebrate war lmao. the festival was to end radahn's suffering.

[@sirvilhelm2775]

"A celebration of war, the Radahn's festival!" ​literally says Jerren, Radahn's friend. @@hesserk

[@hesserk]

@@sirvilhelm2775 you only take words at face value, without grasping what the festival is. Ending Radahn doesn't mean they love war

[@sirvilhelm2775]

@@hesserk if Radahn didn't love war why did he fight Morgott near Leyndell? Besides, Radahn was a big fan of Godfrey, who has been doing literally one thing his entire life - war

[@malek0093]

With Scadutree Fragments, they could have taken inspiration from how Sekiro handled its progression system, you increased your attack power naturally as you defeated each major boss, and you upgraded your health by defeating minibosses and exploring. They could have made Scadutree Fragments rewards for completing dungeons, and each remembrance boss gives you a larger reward, maybe 5 fragments for example. That way they'd ensure you wouldn't be overleveled for bosses and it encourages you to explore dungeons and fight more minibosses.

[@ElektronikGirlEpic]

Elden Ring: Criticised for reusing bosses over and over Also Elden Ring: Let's make the final boss a reused boss.

[@Pelayum]

To be fair, the Promised Consort fight is very, very different from his original encounter

[@kirayoshikage7630]

Reused boss,not character. When people talk about reuse - it's normally about the same boss with same moveset(Godrick and Godefroy) ,but radahn is completely new boss from fight perspective

[@elia0162]

no you guys are wrong more than half of his moves are recicled from weapons and past bossfights

[@A-Rune-bear]

@@elia0162like? There is only one inspired move which is starcaller cry, even then it is totally different

[@elia0162]

@@A-Rune-bear did u ever used the radhan weapons from caelid bossfight? A bunch of them are there,then there is the stomp on the ground it is from Godfrey,the on ground gravity attack is from the previous fight,the meteorite attack is the same with extra light particle,second phase is the first phase moves but with light particle

[@JLHoskins]

Personally, my only disappointment is that we got NOTHING new about the Gloam Eyed Queen or Godskin cult. I'm not the biggest lore guy or anything, but from my understanding- The GEQ was basically Queen Marika's rival. Someone who heralded the Godskin hunt against her demi-god children. Yet... we know nothing more about it? Like, we know what she did against the hornsent, and why- but not more information on a cult who WORE HER CHILDREN'S SKINS?!?!!

[@MrGrimlock1]

Remember the few days before the DLC launched and the final boss leaked, no one believed it not cause it was the most hype moment of the DLC, nope, no one believed it cuz it sounded ridiculous how they reused Radahn

[@roohni2226]

The memory after the final boss should’ve started a dream fight with miquella or something. It just ended very abruptly and randomly imo.

[@andycarroll3403]

I’m so glad the overall consensus on this is that it is incredible, because it is. Also agree with your points and have enjoyed the hell out of your live streams. Thanks Rata!

[@Atmo-music]

1. Scadutree fragments should’ve been dropped by every boss IN ADDITION to having locations in the game world. Would give that feeling of reward after beating bosses, which is somewhat lessened because runes are less meaningful. Also would’ve added fragments at nearly every grace. The game feels artificially difficult for some people because the HP pools of the bosses are insanely high. 2. Godwyn would’ve made much more sense and would’ve been super surprising in a good way. 3. No new dialogue in the base game is super strange and gives off a feeling of lack of polish. Still a 9.5 out of 10 IMO

[@aryabratsahoo7474]

1. Highly agree 2. I know Godwyn is pretty much dead but I would've preferred something that explores more into base game lore. We needed more lore about Messmer, St. Trina, Frenzied Flame Lord, Mother of the Fingers. Bayle's lore was perfect. Heck, we might have gotten something more from the outer gods or greater will or star creatures. 3. I feel it's pretty much the fault of the scope of the game and the dlc. ER is a Massive game and same goes for the dlc. It's easily possible that they preferred more on the players experiencing the spectacle instead of relying on the replayability and multiple choices because of it's huge size. And a few more mechanical things to add: 4. The dlc's bosses pretty much highlight the shortcomings of the player, the camera and boss movesets. My worst would obviously be Rellana(Difficult to read combos, constant fakeouts, similar combo patterns leading more different combos), Putrescent Knight(Constantly running away), Divine Beast(CAMERA) and Radahn(specifically his 2nd phase attacks that cause fps drops, visibility issues and plenty more but still more fair than others). 5. Deflecting Hardtear: pretty much proves my point that ER definitely need a sekiro like deflect system proper. It's inclusion pretty much feels like a band aid solution approach. 6. Questionable loot: Why are there beginner tier smithing stones in a dlc that is pretty much accessed during late game? Even with the inclusion of bell bearings? 7. Pretty much more consumables that are literally wasted potential: It's a decisive matter and I think I need more time to think about it. Overall it's a great game and the dlc is excellent as I found myself enjoying a lot. But it also feels like a game that I won't ever come back to after finishing it. Every other souls games made by FS has a weird charm but in this game, it feels like a chore to play second time.

[@johannesschrammen2612]

I actually really like Radahns introduction in the DLC, we can finally fight him when hes at full power but also beeing stripped of his free will and a consort to miquella something he refused.

[@TheGreatGoddessFreya]

Given that we know it was Ranni that orchestrated the Night of the Black Knives, I assumed that she targeted Goldwyn specifically to deny him a "true death", and to deny Miquella. I think she knew Miquella was mad as a brush, and that denying him godhood was imperative. I think that Miquella then pivoted to Radahn, and sicced Malenia on him. It didn't go as planned, but then we came along and killed Radahn and Mohg, and godhood was back on the menu.

[@TheGreatGoddessFreya]

*Godwyn. JFC autocorrupt.

[@SM-nz9ff]

Almost like you're smart and these people are being severely unintelligent lol. Good on y a I love the self snitching going on. People doing Ex-pose-ehs on themselves its greatly amusing to me

[@imperialspence5106]

there isn’t a single area in the dlc that is properly populated except for maybe the middle section. everywhere else, while beautiful, is almost completely empty. there are no secrets, barely any caves, nothing that actually rewards exploration. it’s just empty. The worst offenders are the cerulean coast, the abyssal woods, charros hidden grave, and rauh ruins. The only area that actually benefits from this is Marika’s village.

[@marchmelloow]

As I played through the DLC, I figured out that Miquella was trying to revive Radahn, so getting the reveal that I was right was great and I was pretty hyped to fight him. A shame others seem to have not.

[@dankbuster2181]

I personally loved the arena and entrance of radahn as the final boss, it feeling like an epic final bout at the heavenly skies and a warriors presence, but that all came out of nowhere, with little reason or setup as to why this deserves such a glorious presentation, the story finale climax doesnt make the player feel anything satiating of the tale they just journeyed

[@ZachStachelski13]

I think it's the Miquella stuff that I don't like. If Radahn just showed up like "I'm so badass I resurrected myself just to rematch you in my prime." I'd be like yooooo.

[@ericjensen7580]

One issue that is creeping up after replays is that there just aren't that many cool items to find in the open world. There are a lot of cookbooks for stuff that is just never going to be used. Finger consumables? Spirit consumables? 19 different greases. Hefty Pots are cool at least but we have like 8 variants or something. Some of these should have been fragments, arterea leaves, and rune arcs. There are hardly any rune arcs. I get that the elden ring was shattered after and we have like, some iris' that do the same thing but they're tied to quests and we get like 4 of them. Also, elden ring, can we please add an item filter when we're equipping items please.

[@Mango-cp1im]

i thought this as well when playing. i hardly ever went to a hidden away ruin and got surprised to find a neat spell. I think the only memory i have of this was the shaman village and he rings of light spell near some deathbirds. and i also dont remember finding super unique weapons in the open world that werent very obviously in the open like the backhand blades and the great katana

[@juanbarb57]

Exactly, this DLC needed way better rewards for exploration, more rune arcs, more larval tears and for the love of GOD more ancient dragon/somber smithing stones, You know, the only ones I CANT buy from the shop in the roundtable hold?

[@KingDarkness100]

I found many new Items in every area maybe you guys didnt explore carefully enough?

[@robertl7334]

You can sort items in the menu with 4 options, and you have the item box at graces. I normally carry 7-10 weapons max. Greases are great for pure strength and dex builds. The pots and all usable items carry over to your mimic so you can spam rot, poison, healing stones, and etc. Plus items are great for covering weaknesses in pvp. I agree we needed more items of higher rarity in the wild, but co-op helped me farm 100 rune arcs. I believe that was the design intent for the lack of rune arcs; getting others to work together.

[@petercottantail7850]

them splitting a cookbooks recipes from 4 to 1 in the dlc was a huge redflag they ran out of stuff to reward us with, and the worst part was that everytime i saw what the recipe was for i said to myself, great so people who hack unlimited items in are gunna abuse this against me when i only have a scares amount if i don't grind forever. they needed to shrink the map instead of make it monotonous at the very least and make the cook book item have more things in it, the key items list is way too long now 😅 and they could have copy and pasted so many enemy items or spells as ashes of war instead and no one would complain, id love albuneric cartwheel or skeleton spinning lunge as an ash of war

[@mrpotch]

Near the end of the dlc, from what all the npcs have said to that point, i was speculating if it was radahn coming back in his prime but as a spirit somehow (like godfrey in spirit form) before we face miquella. While godwyn (mohg) and miquella would be the final bosses and it would become the holiest of boss fights to ever exist. Now that i think about it, godwyn in mohg's body would make more sense since theyre brothers.

[@kaingates]

There's nothing in this world that won't convince me that the original plan for the DLC/cut content was that we would help Miquella chose between Radahn and Godwyn. The story is based on releasing Radahns soul into Mohgs body and who is the opposite? Godwyn. I do agree that after the initial shock of Radahns reveal it falls flat at the end and drops it from a 10 to a 9 IMO. I would also like the Scadutree to have been implemented differently. Maybe instead of a general buff you could apply the seeds to talismans and increasing their buff. Then it would have been more choices for the player what to buff instead of a flat dmg neg and boost. That's the reason it drops from a 9 to a 8.5 The final problem is that there's so much extra story content that is both detached and important. Like the fingers, the madness, the hornsent/Shaman. All those things being kinda dismissed because the story is "follow miquella" oh and the St. Trina? Yeah you have to luck out to find that aspect. It's what drops it to an 8 for me. Overall I believe this was their most ambitious DLC but I don't think it belongs in the echelon of Night City, Hunters Nightmare, Fire & Wine. It's a good even at times amazing dlc and brings more Elden Ring than before but didn't make the game better.

[@horacevonbergamot5093]

While I think that Radahns Second Appearance cheapens his character quite a bit, I would argue its even worse for Miquella. There are a lot of people who hoped that he would be good or atleast a compelling villain, a benevolent machiavallian pursuing his utopia so to speak. Now though, were ever I look, I see confusion. On the one hand, all his benevolent ambitions seem still canon - which he weirdly just abandoned - on the other hand he is far from the villain sacrificing all his followers in some kind of eclipse Griffith Type that people made him out to be. There is some interesting cut content on this though, you should look definitivly into it. Its especially sad, since every other boss is complete and utter kino.

[@TheSeth256]

Huh? You seem to have missed the majority of lore behind Miquella. He didn't just "abandon" his previous missions, he failed to complete them and then tried to find other ways to accomplish them, leading all the way to what happens in the expansion as he now thinks he can only succeed by throwing away everything he previously cherished. At last, he thinks that the only way to fix the world is by becoming its god and controlling it this way.

[@DANBAN119]

I'm honestly surprised you didn't complain that there weren't enough weapons in the new weapon categories. That's another big one I've seen thrown around, and one I agree with. There are only around 1-3 weapons for each new category, with perfumers getting like 5 for each status effect.

[@jakesteinberg5902]

I don’t think this is a legitimate criticism, almost all of 100+ weapons they added are of good quality. The perfumer arts all use the same animation, and realistically I don’t see how they could have added many more without making them boring. You wanted a third beast claw with the same move set? Reminder that this is a dlc and they’ve given us way more than other game companies have

[@DANBAN119]

@@jakesteinberg5902 I’m not complaining that any of the new weapons they added are bad or disappointing, just that I wanted to see more of what they could do with the new weapon categories. I think you are completely wrong with that if they added anymore then they’d get boring, they added weapons to the old categories and still found ways to make those weapons interesting, so I don’t see that as a valid rebuttal. They introduced many new possibilities to weapons and combat in the dlc, I mean they introduced the idea of WEAPONS BEING USED AS CATALYSTS, and only put that on 2 of the 100+ weapons. As an example of what I would’ve liked them to do, Rellana’s light greatswords, while amazing as is, feels like they would’ve been cooler if they were two separate weapons. The blue glintstone sword being an int/dex weapon catalyst, and the fire sword being a fai/dex or fai/str sword. I’m not saying that they needed like 10 weapons in each of the 8 new categories, just maybe like 2 more? At MOST 5 in each category. Which would have been 40, not even half of the weapons in the dlc, you could afford to cut back on any additions to the older categories, them being as vast as they are in the base game. They were a huge selling point of the dlc and they just weren’t as prevalent as expected. I think it is valid to criticize when you introduce new ideas and just don’t use them enough.

[@Tengila]

@@DANBAN119 Not to mention, there are a lot of empty-feeling corners of the map. A couple of more weapons to put in them would have helped a lot with filling that out, as well as round out the rather incomplete-feeling lore.

[@jakesteinberg5902]

@@DANBAN119 people would still complain that there aren’t enough, even if they added 5 more in each category. Most weapons they’ve ever added in a DLC and ppl still complain

[@TheAjmos]

I agree with you on Radahn. He's a great character in the base game but fighting him again is just not very interesting. Godwyn was such a no-brainer slam dunk of a last boss, idk why they dint take it.

[@Blindcontroller]

They could’ve had scadu smithing stones instead of regular ones.

[@nickb7704]

Isnt that just the same effect with just an extra step of having to go to the roundtable lmao

[@Jazod]

@@nickb7704 ye

[@Blindcontroller]

@@nickb7704 to me it’s a better placebo of loot than finding a smithing stone [1] x2 when you have bell bearings lol.

[@bofa722]

Nah fuck that half the new ingredients are literally just name changes from their vanilla counterparts; we don't need any more lazy, artificial barriers to progression

[@Blindcontroller]

@@bofa722 it would be more rewarding than finding regular ones all the time especially if you have the miner’s bell bearings.

[@Alexxf35]

FromSoft has to move on from the dodge roll. JFC.

[@wuwei473]

I want their next game to be all about shields, tbh

[@kiramaticc]

I liked what Lies of P did. It built upon the mechanics from Bloodborne, Sekiro, and Dark Souls and combined it into a combat system that felt very satisfying and rewarding. Perhaps FromSoft can learn a thing or two from Lies of P in some aspects for whatever their next project is.

[@chrisnguyen126]

I didn't feel Radahn's presence throughout the entire DLC like I did with other bosses. To me, Messmer is still the best boss of the DLC. His presence could be felt across the shadow realm with how almost everything in the environment links back to Messmer. A bit of me felt Radahn was there to be a surprise factor. Even though there were hints from the NPC's lines, I didn't get an "Ah ha" moment when he showed up. Perhaps it would have been too obvious if Messmer was the last boss. But again, like you said, the presentation was what made the lord of cinders such a great boss and gave you that "ah ha" moment. Even Midra was well presented, and he's an optional boss. The atmosphere and build-up when you traverse the Abyssal Woods to the mansion set the right tone for Midra. I can't really think of a way to make the Radahn's fight better except maybe as you traverse Enir-Ilim you see the stars or if we witness the cutscene of Mohg's body being transmutated into Radahn. Something to make him feel more present.

[@darealdovahkiin3652]

@@chrisnguyen126 Yeah honestly, his model felt really soulless. Despite not being rotted, no dialogue or anything. I think this may be entirely intentional a la Miquella’s crazy enchantment and that he only really seems to care about Radahn for his power, but I don’t know, I agree with Ansbach. Feels like a spit on Radahn’s character just like it is on Mohg’s

[@petercottantail7850]

​​@@darealdovahkiin3652only reason they made it radahn was so they could have a demon king looking final boss. 100% retconned because his body fit the bill for all the right notes of a final fight like this. and very weird miquella doesn't say anything as a salty final words for us winning, like we technically only killed radahn, he's on the back the whole time, but just phases out of existence simultaneously??

[@justifano7046]

It’s always funny how people can point out dozens of issues with the game and dlc but then go “but actually it’s game of the year and a masterpiece” I swear fromsoft is holding some of you hostage lol

[@bmocbruhistotle339]

You can criticize something you love, how is this so hard to understand. Have you never criticized your friends or family, I'd feel bad for you if you didn't.

[@justifano7046]

@@bmocbruhistotle339 I think you’re confused. 1. This is a video game not a person. Comparing the 2 is kinda dumb. Loving a person isn’t the same as giving a person a review. 2. The amount of criticism people have for this game doesn’t matchup with the “this is a masterpiece 10/10” reviews that it consistently gets.

[@bmocbruhistotle339]

@@justifano7046 sounds terrible

[@justifano7046]

@@bmocbruhistotle339 bro blink twice if Miyazaki is holding you hostage

[@bmocbruhistotle339]

@@justifano7046 nothing is above criticism

[@MohidPvE]

I have 49/50 fragments, I looked through all the lists and I swear I have every single one of them, I fought Radahn 107 times but I’m not willing to manually check each scadutree fragment, I wish there were just a few more and I could’ve been the max blessing…. It’s a shame in my opinion the golden seed system was very well done I wish they did the same here

[@Slow1337ex]

I think Radahn being the final boss is unsatisfying because his character and presence in the main game was already pretty fleshed out, there wasn't any particularly big mystery or anything that demanded a resolution. His role in the game is well thought out enough, everyone enjoyed it and didn't expect much else (in fact, we loved that we already did get something that normally we would never see in Souls, that being the Radahn festival). Some people used to say it would be cool to fight Prime Radahn, but that was a purely fanservice thing, not exactly a tangible desire. The fact that we fight characters way past their prime in Souls games was never something that was considered unsatisfactory, much the opposite, we appreciated and still appreciate this unique approach to storytelling. And this connection between Radahn and Miquella wasn't even slightly hinted at all. Maybe if there was even the tiniest hint, something that would be enough to make people scratch their heads but not enough to spoil what was going to happen, it would be great.

[@Leeches-]

I entered the DLC at lvl 230 and think it ruined it for me a bit. The logic is as follows: In the base game, dying matters. When you're level 90 and holding 80k souls, you want to go to a grace right away to level up. If you die, you risk not growing in power, so you pay more attention to things and get better. In the DLC for high lvl players, power comes from items on the floor, not enemies. Once i realised my souls were worthless, i stopped caring about dying. I would leave 900k souls on the floor regularly and not pick them up. I realised i was playing the game as if i had a 'dont lose souls on death' hack enabled. The game loses a lot of its atmosphere when death doesnt matter. In my opinion instead of scadu fragments we should have just had mobs drop both runes and shadow runes, and let you spend the shadow runes on upgrading your shadow blessing. This way, bosses dying and dropping 400k runes is still cool, and dying still matters. But alas, we got smithing stones 2.0 instead. Another aspect to this is that mobs become worthless to kill. I hate skipping mobs. I love killing every single enemy everywhere i go. I love collecting souls, i love knowing if i kill that big guy i can get stronger. In the DLC, i just run past. If i die doing so, i do it again. Brain off.

[@Thixico]

They should have just had it be more like sekiro once again, maybe have a couple laying around the map but most are from the hardest enemy in a group or from bosses/field bosses.

[@petercottantail7850]

shadow runes would have been a perfect thing to do, maybe a bit tacky and an eye roller at first glance. i have no will to play the dlc with others characters because of this alone.

[@Eizengoldt]

This is a really good point, there was very little jeopardy for me as well. I thought this would actually be a good thing as I'd be more free to explore but when the rewards are mostly just smithing stones and cookbooks.... Well, it got a bit tedious.

[@ZachStachelski13]

I felt the same way at level 200. Levels not mattering means that runes don't matter, runes not mattering means that most content doesn't matter and also dying doesn't matter.

[@JF-vz1ju]

I mean that's just what playing at high level has always been like in Souls. Your build is set, you don't need more levels, so who cares about souls? It's not exclusive to the DLC. But I do agree with the shadowrune idea. It would've helped make up for scadu fragments that people might have missed without making them feel like they need to go scavenge or look up locations.