NEGATIVITY in the Warhammer Hobby, is it Actually NEEDED? A Rant with Outer Circle!

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Күн бұрын

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@ClintOrris 2 ай бұрын

Toxic positivity is arguably worse because it's inherently attractive. It makes the victim feel like the abuser which is a lot harder to overcome then toxic negativity.

@jeradwood8964 2 ай бұрын

🔺💪 *_Mac,_* as always, has *_CLEARED_*_ The Area....(w/ _*_no traces👓_*_ __31:13__ i.e. __*_He Was RIGHT_* ) (▶21:23 = was that the 3rd time North *_Cut_*_ Macca _*_Off_*_ mid-sentence_ (?) or was it just the 2nd❓)

@Direwoof 2 ай бұрын

Yep absolutely hate it, reddit is awful for it. Made a post about my city with some very valid concerns and they just acted like I was crazy "ohh every city has that your just being negative"

@Daemonik 2 ай бұрын

Auspex Tactics is the most balanced reviewer I'm aware of. Not a shill by any means (seen him ciritcise many products and decisions from GW, and advocate for 3DP). Not unduly negative. Comes across as a nice, reasonable guy. Probably too dry and not enough depth for what a lot of people want, but his product reviews are pretty fair. He's also good at understanding his audience, frequently polling etc.

@kylethomas7473 2 ай бұрын

I do like Auspex Tactics. Bit of a monotone voice but I believe he knows his stuff and does his research

@TheOuterCircle 2 ай бұрын

I also like Auspex.

@Daemonik 2 ай бұрын

@@kylethomas7473 When I first started with him I did wonder if it was an AI voice!! 😄

@willlondon4964 2 ай бұрын

@@kylethomas7473 my wife recognises his voice as "the Warhammer man"

@DoctorEviloply 2 ай бұрын

We need to get beyond this shill speak of "negativity". It's not negativity. It's valid criticism and pattern recognition. If GW didn't keep doing anti consumer things whilst putting out bad minis and books, we'd all be more positive about them. If we were all just shills like a lot of the Warhammer you tubers then GW will be allowed to get away with far more. They can only do better if people tell them they're doing bad. GW have proven they won't listen. But it still needs to be said. At least for the sake of others trying to get into the hobby so they are well informed and not lied to.

@chezratte1357 2 ай бұрын

In my opinion the thing why the middle range of painters gets more credit than the top range is that you need a lot of practice and understanding to fully grasp the quality of the paint job. When you start with the hobby you take people like Duncan Roades (and similar channels) as influence, and if they just want to get an army painted so the rest of the hobby time is for playing, it is fine to stay at that level (not saying Duncan is a bad painter, but what he does is easier to achieve by someone who just starts to paint, than jumping headfirst into a slayer swrod winner tutorial). When you want to start with airbrush you switch to those people that put a big focus on those. And those where painting miniatures started an itch, go to the slayer swords and golden demon winners. I'd say those follower numbers pretty much reflect the people that are on similar (a bit lower) painting level. I mean when you look for advice or don't know how to paint certain things/ colors, look for a painting level a bit above you, something where you think 'I can achieve that' and not on a quality to crush your painting skills like 'how to freehand the mona lisa on a space marine shoulder pad' level. It is similar to the example that pops up every now and then where a young kid that has his first game against one of the powergamer neckbeards with an amrylist downloaded from the internet.

@piotrjeske4599 2 ай бұрын

I started building my army end of 8th edition. Saved up all extra money and by the end of 9th ed l had exactly the army l wanted . A White Scars biker army . I AM Tatar and loved the esthetic. 4+ Years of saving up and GW legends my army. I played maybe 6 games with it. I never reached the "if you paint long enough you will learn to like painting" . The army cost me over 1100$ l make just a bit over 500$ per month. I find no reason to be "positive" about what happened to me.

@kylethomas7473 2 ай бұрын

Regarding Discourse Miniatures I’m not sure how to take her videos most of the time

@Quole1234 2 ай бұрын

his channel is entirely clickbait.

@GrumpyGrognardGaming Ай бұрын

@@Quole1234 It is both a DISASTER and a SCANDAL

@stevenmcgrath5114 2 ай бұрын

Bud Light tried to give away FREE BEER and is STILL struggling for 3RD PLACE ! ! ! Let THAT serve as a warning to companies that loose respect for their customers ! ! !

@thelonelybolter8245 2 ай бұрын

I also think Macca's experience with injection mold manufacturing is invaluable when discussing GW.

@akumaking1 2 ай бұрын

Criticism? Definitely. Negativity? Depends how you frame it and the context.

@ironbomb6753 2 ай бұрын

Being the "best" at something doesn't instantly make a channel the best. For me, to make a channel a favorite, it has the be pleasant to listen to, flow comfortably (dont ask me to explain).and the overall feel of the video. I'm in the US and I prefer to listen to you lot in the UK, Down Under and Middle Earth when i put you tube on. Its a personal thing.

@drmwatson15 2 ай бұрын

speajing as a kiwi, when you're paying $160 for a single broadside from GW it's no wonder. And yet i can pick one up for between 80-100 from FLGS.

@hellvjumper 2 ай бұрын

If you're reading this, Macca, for what it's worth, I do enjoy your more balanced takes and I really liked your what's good HH series

@TheOuterCircle 2 ай бұрын

I read this.

@chadmrrsn 2 ай бұрын

@@TheOuterCircle what about that community conversion video you mentioned ages ago that, would be something awesome to watch and it might help insire you and others

@benjaminrogers8875 2 ай бұрын

Hatred was the best gift the emperor gave humanity.

@hopelessedgelord 2 ай бұрын

17:21 Careful now Mr, that's how you get sent to Istvaan III

2 ай бұрын

I think there are plenty of people who are willfully and more than ready to Stan for Warhammer 40k and Games Workshop. There needs to be more people who are willing to be honest about the problems and shortcomings. I have heard North at least rave and praise lore for instance. The Company Games Workshop, what is the last thing they have done that would honestly earn them praise. Simple question what has Games Workship as a company done that honestly made people feel like WOW that was really cool of them, or WOW what a cool thing to do for their audience who has stuck with them all these years and been so supportive of them. When it comes to lore, I use my old standard of separating the Artist from their Art. There are plenty of musicians out there for instance who I LOVE their music to death, but I think they are degenerate idiots with zero morals, ethics or values whatsoever. Love the music (or the art) but I have zero respect for the artist who made it. Access media is the worst place to look for honest reviews of anything. They are not going to risk their access by being negative about something that is wrong.

@john12644 2 ай бұрын

Yay, more tanks for 30k 😒. In my group just about nobody uses tanks. I wish imperial fists weren't so loved and good. I wanted to get into them and the sons of horus in first edition but couldnt afford it until the start of second and now i wont touch the imperial fists until possibly 2.5/3rd edition of horus heresy.

@House-Atreides 2 ай бұрын

Nerdrotic said it best; “Authenticity is the currency of the future”

@patrikandersson8054 2 ай бұрын

Sadly, the way things are going presently, I think it's a thing of the past.

@jeradwood8964 2 ай бұрын

🤔🌍 These Gents, all of them, are *_Authenticity_*_ personified:_ Fv*king *A1 5x★ §-Tier.*

@House-Atreides 2 ай бұрын

I love Discourse but I would agree with you guys…some (many) of her titles are click-bait non-issues.

@ironbomb6753 2 ай бұрын

I guess it depends on your own take if she is "click-baity". I love her videos because she has a sharp wit and some great zingers. She also covers more than GW, which is refreshing. 👍

@SuperDuperHappyTime 2 ай бұрын

Positive: Someone who enjoys the Hobby Positive Realist: Someone who weighs the pros and cons and leans positive Sunshine Pumper: Someone who intentionally ignores negatives/cons to pretend everything is sunshine and lollipops. Bad because those negatives could actually lead to something bad. Toxic Positivity: People who see negatives and say “THATS A GOOD THING. NEGATIVE PEOPLE NEED TO F*** OFF” I consider Kirioth and Valrak as Positive Realists, Valrak tends to not go negative, when he’s been put on GW’s Shitlist, so he can go off with no negative effects. Sunshine Pumpers are bad, but if your community is healthy, most of the community will tell them off. Toxic Positives will intentionally drive off any negative opinions, to the point where actual criticism is labeled as hate speech and said person, if not banned from the community, is driven to no longer care about being a part. There’s a Negative Scale as well. The difference between is that the Negative side tends to stop new people from coming into the hobby/fanbase, because “things are not good here”, where as the positive side attacks people who have already bought in.

@TheOuterCircle 2 ай бұрын

Interesting take. I might borrow some of this scale!

@darko-man8549 2 ай бұрын

What’s crazy is that there are players who think the IF deserve to get 5 times everyone else. “IF are the best, they carried the HH” They’ll say “oh just wait for your turn” - but when will that be? 4the edition of HH when they finally get around to focusing on the RG or IH or WS or IW? It’s like they only read IF propaganda for plastic toys and now worship them. Shattered Legions deserve more attention and more respect.

@spnked9516 2 ай бұрын

I think what makes discussing GW so difficult is that it's always one step forward, one step back, with them, and people tend to only ever focus on the step that feeds their personal narrative. GW has undeniably made some serious improvements over the last two decades, but they've also made some disastrous and overtly hostile decisions as well. Unfortunately, this also makes supporting GW difficult as the the good behaviours a reasonable consumer might wish to reward are often tied to the bad decisions GW makes.

@WhatThe40k 2 ай бұрын

Great discussion here!! Unfortunately I think most people are too tribal and seek creators / videos which validate their lens. I think trailer reaction videos (🤮) are a great example of this. Though it did give us RLM's Nerd Crew videos😂

@Lord_Aussem 2 ай бұрын

It would be good to have more discussions like this. I have a small following but I only upload once in a while. My main interest was making 40k animations, but GW's legal team has made me hesitant.

@jdstudios1912 2 ай бұрын

Could be worse, if you dare to criticise star wars for any reason you're immediately attacked and labelled a bigot for daring to criticise a massive corporation known for its awful practices

@kylethomas7473 2 ай бұрын

Tried watching some of Gamzas videos but his voices just grates on me

@DBWave94 2 ай бұрын

His voice is what bothers you? It's not the fact that he's a black-pilled incel freak who encourages some of the most damaging mindsets about women and dating?

@stevenmcgrath5114 2 ай бұрын

As far as the long neglected XENOS players are concerned, it amazes me how GW spawns it own competition ! ! !

@jester7162 2 ай бұрын

Despite not owning/playing 90% of the game systems brought up here, this is grade A comfort listening whilst painting. May I ask what the track name is in the background? Edit: I'd love a channel that went through all the components of a boxed set, stage by stage until the final, finished product. I'm sure they're out there.

@jeradwood8964 2 ай бұрын

🔻💪🔺 *_Mac,_* as always, has *_CLEARED_*_ The Area....(w/ _*_no traces👓_*_ = __31:13__ = i.e. __*_He Was RIGHT_* ) (▶21:23 = was that the 3rd time North *_Cut_*_ Macca _*_Off_*_ mid-sentence_ (?) or was it just the 2nd❓25:05)

@vostroyanfirstborn9834 2 ай бұрын

£32 for 2 Knights Of Arnor I'd say its needed

@mandasity 2 ай бұрын

reminds me of dunkeys video on video game reviewers

@hopelessedgelord 2 ай бұрын

2:44 Thats my number too for that There is the Commissar who is not to be named, but I had to stop watching her years ago. Like sure most stuff she's not necessarily wrong about but its at its worst when its the subjective opinion stuff and acting like the first circle of hell has just opened up. 32:43 Rho Mu 31 best boi

@thelonelybolter8245 2 ай бұрын

I think the biggest shame with Discourse is once you get past the thumbnail, her content is generally pretty excellent. Especially when she's interviewed. I feel the packaging is bringing everything down.

@theendofmyropemydude 2 ай бұрын

For me, one of the big problems is that everyone wants KZbin to be their full time job, when that's just not possible for most creators. I don't even like the term creator, though I admit it's accurate, because it creates (lol) this air of nobility or an elite status. "I'm not a guy who talks about Warhammer online, I'm a *content creator*". My brother in Christ your channel has 2k subscribers, you have a second hobby. When everyone tries to make KZbin their job, you'll see a boom and bust cycle like we're seeing now. Tools like Patreon can artificially inflate budgets for KZbin channels, but people don't subscribe to that sort of thing forever. Tl;dr don't turn a KZbin channel into a company with paid employees unless there's a really, really good reason to do so.

@hoger19 2 ай бұрын

Holy God. What music is playing in the background? This is really good

@stevenmcgrath5114 2 ай бұрын

59:25 I would LOVE to join THAT panel ! ! !

@AgeofSilver 2 ай бұрын

As Thanos said “Perfectly balanced, as all things should be”.

@patrikandersson8054 2 ай бұрын

Negativity is sometimes justified. But in the case of Discourse, I think she is doing it for the clicks. She lacks the right kind of nuance in her criticism.

@Daemonik 2 ай бұрын

@@patrikandersson8054 I've not watched many of her videos. Each time I have, I've regretted it and not finished the vid. I'm someone who has _massively_ fallen off the GW hype train and even I have considered the ones I've seen to be clickbaity nothingburgers. Some of the specific things she's said have really rubbed me up the wrong way (and others too, judging by the comments in the vids in question). Maybe I've just had a bad selection, but I've not been inclined to watch more to find out. Plus cosmetically, perhaps unfairly, her voice really grates on me.

@doomsmythe 2 ай бұрын

Dude. I am literally right in the middle of making a video about this person specifically. Yes, that exact channel. Ladies and germs, meet "that guy." Let's just do what we always do and kick them out of the store.

@Endme264 2 ай бұрын

Negativity, is basically a sooks word for real...

@stevenmcgrath5114 2 ай бұрын

When GW hits it out of the park, they REALLY hit it out of the park . . . When GW fucks up the REALLY fuck up ! ! !

@GrumpyGrognardGaming Ай бұрын

This is more or less exactly what GGG was set up for, to champion the good stuff and to call it out when GW fuck up. (as they often do) Sadly that means that GW will likely never send us stuff, and i can't afford to pick up enough regular releases to review. (only the Heresy stuff is worth it anyway)

@boycottwarhammer6016 2 ай бұрын

Id love to put my voice out there, though it wont be well recieved 😅

@ch-sqpopay9949 Ай бұрын

the channel "the warhammerman" makes always reviews of new upcoming kits. He doesnt buy them, but he still gives his oppinion on the kits and prices. Also does he alwasw compare it to older kits and prices. thats a point

@drfishynooooo881 2 ай бұрын

Opinions, either negative or positive, should always be welcome. However, when someone is consistently negative, without offering a solution/alternative, I find that really hard to side with. To me, being consistently negative is just complaining - it's immature, it doesn't improve anything and ultimately it's a waste of everyone's time.

@piotrjeske4599 2 ай бұрын

Ok.what is the solution to GW made my army legends, l can't play or afford to buy/rebuy a new army. Where do you find the positive ? Especialy when online you get told that marines are great. And you have or rather had a White Scars biker army.

@19Crusader91 2 ай бұрын

If GW does only bad things, how are we supposed to say anything positive? If i ask you to feed me, and than you shit in my mouth, what am i supposed to say? Oh i dont like the taste of it but you fed me at least.

@drfishynooooo881 2 ай бұрын

@@piotrjeske4599 get creative cuz. You'll work it out.

@chadmrrsn 2 ай бұрын

@drfishynooooo881 that is one of the takes of all times

@mayofrench5170 2 ай бұрын

You can tell a 40K product reviewer is being fair about a product when they are called a shill and a hater in the same comments section. The issue with creating content for GW's new releases is getting the content out in a timely fashion. The channels who receive a copy early from GW get the views before other channels can get the product. Because so much of GW's new product sells out immediately, the value of these review videos has a very short shelf life. A review of a game does me little good if I can't get the game. I enjoyed this Rant. I want GW to make better products and serve the consumer better as well. I watch Discourse mainly for the shtick. The videos have a very repetitive quality that has gotten stale. She makes some valid points but her critique of GW's marketing model is static. There are only so many ways to say "FOMO bad" and "costs too much." Guerilla Miniatures Games seems pretty fair in their reviews. I like it when the creator discloses they received a free copy for review.

@Azrael.87 2 ай бұрын

Yea Hatty is a bit of an alarmist, still she has some pretty interesting takes sometimes

@andrewlaidlaw7975 2 ай бұрын

Would be good to see a channel giving an honest opinion. As a couple of tech channels I'm subscribed to have said that at times X company wasn't so happy about the review they did just for giving an honest ballenst review.

@Sjakkel 2 ай бұрын

I think you'd love the Worth A Buy channel here on yt

@benmorin1284 Ай бұрын

Great duo

@akirakasinata-fk8qy 2 ай бұрын

Yours discord link doesn't work

@hazemangames 2 ай бұрын

No! next question!

@chaosisbaeos 2 ай бұрын

Discourse minis is a meme 😂😂😂

@luuidz1966 2 ай бұрын

Seen that sloptuber in my reccs before, intollerable personality and presentation Coming from a cynical person

@Ng-zg4dq 2 ай бұрын

🎉

@stevenmcgrath5114 2 ай бұрын

Cynicism or Vigilance ?

@RazielLordOfSecrets 2 ай бұрын

I wonder how many complain, because they are unaware of other companies or too scared to go elsewhere?

@mandasity 2 ай бұрын

You can find your answer by looking at how many people would buy a 35 GW hobby knife or 50 dollar flush cutters. I was one of those guys once and my lamen logic was that it must be somehow better or designed to work with their other products. I imagine that brand loyalty and sunk cost fallacy has something to do with it for a number of people. I was around 15 at the time and didn't know any better, less sources of information back then combined with youthful ignorance (and parents' money instead of my own). Life taught me that I can buy a pack of 5, repeat 5, flush cutters for 10 bucks on amazon. It's a real shame just how much of the GW fanbase is oblivious to the tabletop gaming and the crafting hobby at large. Just out of curiosity, what other sort of table games do you play or crafting hobbies do you have?

@Daemonik 2 ай бұрын

@@mandasity sunk cost and a belief in "more expensive = better" is _huge_ for preventing people looking elsewhere. You can see similar effects in other industries where a specific brand name dominates the market despite being more expensive and not really much better (sometimes objectively worse) than their competitors, but still having that brand loyalty.

@mandasity 2 ай бұрын

@@Daemonik why do I get the feeling you had apple products in mind when you said that? lol

@Daemonik 2 ай бұрын

@@mandasity "My lawyer has advised me to neither confirm nor deny that supposition...." Apple's a good example tbh. They redefined many elements of their target industry with the iPod, iPhone and iPad especially and brought new ways of interacting with tech to the masses. Stores to bring people into "the experience" as much as selling products. Closed ecosystem that's very hostile to anything outside that serves a similar purpose. Well-known for price gouging and planned obsolescence. You can't fault the quality of the hardware most of the time, but many users find the software and ecosystem not quite what they want. A lot of that sounds eerily familiar... 🤔

@richardcahill1234 2 ай бұрын

That's a man, right?

@tommoolenaar3901 2 ай бұрын

I feel like the way your videos are named and their thumbnails communicate a lot of negativity. Some of them don't but the majority do as it's mostly hobby nightmares.

@Lordvader1212 2 ай бұрын

The key difference to both of you and Discourse, is you always say “this is a problem and this is what I would do to fix it” as opposed to a constant stream of negativity

@rockstar450 2 ай бұрын

I do have to say this guy is a whinny beach. North has constructive criticism who demands quality but is looking to have fun but this guy sounds like the guy who complains that stopped getting invited years ago...