Are Women and Men EQUAL in the Mormon Church?

‪@jubilee‬'s recent video raised the question, are Women and Men are equal in the Mormon Church? So I thought I'd take a look...
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Russell M. Nelson - Doughnuts
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FAIR USE DISCLAIMER
The Media in this video (including the thumbnail) is used in a transformative way, for the purpose of review and critique. The images in the thumbnail are used as the primary means of visually identifying the subject matter of the video.
#LDS #Equality #Mormon

[@rilum97]

Imagine there are 30 women in a sacrament meeting, and no men. Can they do a sacrament meeting? No.

[@Zodiacalesotericmatrix]

8 million women in the Church but without men there is no Church.

[@Homepageturned]

Then it wouldn't be a Sacrament meeting.

[@UVJ_Scott]

Since you don’t believe in the Priesthood what difference does it make whether there’s a sacrament meeting or not?

[@richharkness5942]

They can't even sit-up on the stand

[@UVJ_Scott]

The Melchizedek priesthood is a place holder till the Patriarchal Priesthood is implemented. Under the Patriarchal Priesthood it’s women who determine the birthright. Even now when a husband and wife divorce and they have children born in the covenant, the children are sealed to the woman, not to the man, assuming worthiness. Fair?

[@smallfairytales1231]

Your points on Keeron’s calling is spot on. Neither was he presented to the body of the church for a vote. We have now entered an autocracy.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Absolutely!

[@savannahthomson1174]

Not just Kearon. The other 5 most recent "Apostle" assignments were not presented to the membership for a sustaining vote until months after their ordinations.

[@cnpeck13]

I got my MBA from BYU. That honestly was the final straw. The thing that broke my shelf. Despite having a female dean, it was incredibly obvious that the women in the program were either 1) Just tolerated or 2) "Just so very special" -as in we were seen as an aberration.

[@dm-dk5lm]

This is exactly how it was when I went there.

[@Foghorn-tr1je]

I got into BYU but decided to go elsewhere. I am so glad I did. I was an engineering student and I suspect I would have gotten this treatment too. A friend went to law school there and guys in her class would tell her she was taking away a spot for a man who needed it to support their family. Well guess what. She is supporting her family.

[@learnenglishwithstories3571]

CRINGEY!!! That ending clip of President Nelson glorying in the fact that all their women were home "in the kitchen" makes me ill. Great research as always Nemo! Your content is amazing.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thank you kindly!

[@elliek5350]

​@@NEMOTHEMORMON Wonder what year that was

[@spencersessions]

Why is that considered cringy? It's a tradition they had in their home every conference, which they look forward to (this is now is no longer possible since the Saturday evening session is a joint meeting). Just because you've encountered chauvinistic men who used the term "women in the kitchen" as a derogatory doesn't mean President Nelson intended his wife belongs there.

[@dreibel]

To Rusty Nelson: if you truly love and honour your wives, mothers and daughters, give them a break from the kitchen and housework. And you and your fellow brethren can go to Tim Hortons and buy your own damn donuts!

[@LazarWolf07]

Ha ha ha

[@johnrowley310]

Right on....

[@alexavandongen847]

Thank you, Nemo, for this video. As a woman who grew up in this church, videos like this are extremely validating as to why I felt so out of place and uncomfortable at times with being in the church. ESPECIALLY when I was a sister missionary who served as a leader for 90% of my mission. It makes me sick to see how blinded I was to the oppression and sexism that surrounded me while I was actively participating in church. I can only hope that one day, things will get better for the women who are still actively blinded to the oppression around them in the church.

[@outsideinside5881]

@nemothemormon Nelson's body language when the interviewer asked the question was so odd, I noticed it. Glad you pointed it out in the video. That ending clip was 😂😂 you are the master at pulling up the cringey clips from the past.

[@Wren402]

No. Next question?

[@amyjudy33]

I 'like' your comment to express my shared sentiment. I hate that it's the completely true state of things.

[@Foghorn-tr1je]

Exactly

[@daleyglobal]

😂 clearly agreed. Great answer

[@DanA.-jo4sg]

If by the word 'Equal', you mean Subservient, then Yes.

[@lilatueller]

Wendy’s response seemed very rehearsed. And it was completely erroneous. Every one of those roles she mentioned are NOT run by women. Because the women in those callings are all overseen by and must answer to- men. The women are the peons. The workhorses, but are not “in charge” of anything. She’s flat out lying. Or she’s completely blind

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Very interesting point that they ultimately overseen by men at every level

[@aredesuyo]

As a hardcore cultist, she likely believes what she's saying. The Not Even Once Club is a product of her mind, after all.

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

As the Prophets living wife she actually has far more control of the whole church as she supports her husband. The church is completely clueless when it comes to single adult members and single women who work.

[@sallygreenfield6991]

That ending was FIRE.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thanks!

[@LizaFergison]

Nelson smirking when he said that the women were at home in the kitchen, cooking doughnuts, which the men would eat made me want to scream. We are intellectually equal and not slaves to men.

[@BunnyWatson-k1w]

Why wouldn't women just go to Tim Horton's for their doughnuts? The men would still be grateful.

[@scandia67]

@@BunnyWatson-k1w The bros can just stop by the shop and pick up their own doughnuts on the way home.

[@ChrisS-dt3vq]

Yeah he was excited!! For the treat? Or knowing he didn't have to fix them,😂

[@marcus.H]

Why do you feel the need to have authority over other people anyway? Do you feel you need to have authority over other human beings before you are considered somehow valid? If you have just said that your goal is not to serve others, then what on earth would make you think that it's appropriate for you to hold authority within any organisation??

[@BrianTerrill]

I'm mean Paul did teach that women should be keepers at home, I wonder how many of you guys pretend to believe in the Bible if you hate the church so much on this issue. Also, why haven't you all flocked to the Community of Christ, they even have a woman prophet now but are totally dependent on selling us all their stuff.

[@jeffreyanderson6021]

‭‭Mark 12:38-39 NIV‬‬ [38] As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, [39] and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets.

[@Goobersnobber47]

Why did you stop? Verse 40:Which devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

[@PeaceOnEarth-d8h]

Everyone hit the “Like” button and donate if you can. Please continue to discuss this important topic, Nemo. Women keep the church running and should get paid for their work. It’s spiritual extortion, and it needs to end. Thanks.

[@andrewreed4216]

I noticed there's a lack of revelation even on a local level. A less active member and myself figured out the new person going for a primary position was actually a man not a woman (had a sex change in prison), which wasn't the worst part, he also had murdered 2 children. What happened to decernment? (Our leaders didn't pick it up without our alarm) I even noticed he had an Adams apple and when I shook his hand it didn't feel right, don't get me wrong, I'm not here to judge if someone's changed, I just didn't think it was safe or appropriate.

[@whitesalamander]

This story needs a dedicated episode.

[@claudiacampbell3948]

I don't think decernment in the church even exist. In a relatives ward/stake a young serial rapist within his own family advanced in the priesthood thru HS, went on a mission, started raping again when he returned home, and went on to a temple marriage. I don't believe Christ is involved in these processes at all. It's men, all on their own.

[@LopsidedLiahona]

100000%. Also note, to be rebaptized they had to receive FP approval. As if the FP can forgive murder. What, now they're playing God literally? The hubris. Look, ppl can change. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we discard common sense nor open the door to possible future victimization. Oh wait..... NM. (/s) But what do I know? I'm "just" a woman. Discernment, my ass. Convenience is more like it. Church, your desperation is beginning to show... 😬

[@user-ql2id3ml3i]

we noticed the turn off and disgust of Nelson right away, followed by Wendy saying nothing in her answer. Their attitude makes me want to puke.

[@truebloodnz]

Part time female general auxilliary leaders who dont receive financial support is part of the problem. Why can’t they be properly compensated like the men? Ridiculous!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Agreed!

[@sinisterhug1394]

God, the sexism is SCREAMING in these clips 😂

[@rooheath]

No, not equal in this life and definitely no promise of anything like equality in Mormon heaven. For many women, Mormon heaven sounds more like hell.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

I thank God that there will be no polygamy in heaven. It is like my husband says: "In monogamy you have equality. In polygamy you have a bunch of servants". We believe what Jacob2 tells us.

[@anitah2404]

Yes, the Mormon heaven would be hell for women, living amongst narcissistic men. D&C 132:52-55 threatens to destroy Emma if she doesn’t accept all of Joseph’s wives and concubines, and it promises hundreds of wives to Joseph. As a young girl, reading this scripture made me feel like women have no value and are a dime a dozen. It gave me low self-esteem, which I have struggled to overcome my whole life. I wonder how different my life would have been if the missionaries had never found my parents.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

@@anitah2404I am so sorry that you have been so traumatized by this evil that infiltrated the Lord's church. We are under condemnation and the people are so blind to it. The Book of Mormon tells us clearly, the D&C tells us clearly and Isaiah along with several others tell us clearly that in this, our, day we are going to get a big kick in the butt from Heavenly Father but they refuse to see that it actually means us. Don't let them win my dear. Push back. By that I mean you must believe in yourself and knowing that it was the wicked King Noah, oops I mean, King Brigham and not Joseph who instigated polygamy may help to set you free. I will share with you what my husband says about polygamy. "With one man and one woman you have equality. With polygamy you have many servants". We were always true blue Mormons, him more even than me. We accepted what we were taught. Then ten years ago I started investigating and finding many inconsistancies. Then in the past couple years I have started finding channels on youtube clearing up the lies we have been fed. Now I love Michelle Stone and her podcast 132 problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy. She has had some amazing guests on her show. If you haven't been there you should. I think you will find help and healing over there. Best to you my dear.

[@Zodiacalesotericmatrix]

In Mormonism, the Celestial Kingdom is equal because everyone has their procreation gear, and those who end up in lower heavems get equalized with TK smoothies.

[@Nesabyne]

​@@ZodiacalesotericmatrixI've paid to get my procreation gear yanked out. That shit was trying to kill me, and I don't want it back.

[@Liz-hr6hf]

Nope. Not at all. According to Mormonism, we have a mother in heaven, and we cannot even speak to her.

[@rebeccacall7348]

Heaven forbid you even mention her existence. All chaos breaks loose!

[@daleyglobal]

😂wow seriously psychological abuse WOW ‼️‼️

[@fannyfatale404]

Probably because she's in the kitchen and is not allowed to answer to you anyway?

[@afterdroid]

As Ward Secretary in the early 2000's, I was instructed to only select Priesthood holders to give the opening prayer in Sacrament Meeting. And as I am writing this, it is odd that the church calls their main service a 'meeting'.

[@whitesalamander]

Good point about meeting vs service!

[@Freerangemormon]

You “meet” with fellow Christians to partake in the sacrament, not everything is a conspiracy

[@Dutchess0909]

​@@Freerangemormonmeetings... Never understand that business wording

[@tezzerii]

@afterdroid That's like one of those "unwritten laws" that people assume. When I was on the bishopric years ago (before 2000) I sometimes assigned sisters to do the final talk in sacrament. They were surprised, and pointed out it's traditional for a priesthood holder to be last speaker. But I thought, why ? And they accepted. *Nobody told me I was wrong to do it.* There has been, and still is, a culture of male dominance in the church - just like there was, and still is, in the world. I think things are changing, but oh how slowly the wheels turn.

[@janedanced5117]

Nemo, thank you! This was really good and so unsettling at the same time. So glad to not be apart of such a strange and archaic organization.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MolyBDenum-lh3wy]

Don’t forget M. Russell Ballard also said that women should not talk too much in council meetings… definitely should’ve added this to your video. They conveniently removed it from the church’s official website. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYS6gaWwfqihorM&si=xic9FfIPazPJxmU6

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

That was his age talking. Once the current crop of older gernal authorities passes their will be some church program and handbook change again. The Wormns issues within the church will come around again. Notice at Childen, Youth, FSY and Missionary level the experience has become unisex apart from the worthy males getting the priesthood.

[@impossiblemel7]

Well done Nemo! Thank you for giving me such a short clear cut video to point to

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

My pleasure!

[@simeoncox8336]

That last clip of Nelson, man. I am usually totally fine with people who choose "traditional" (conservative) lifestyles. But damn, that clip was so offensive it's unbelievable.

[@jewelgazer]

I felt the same way! Nelson thought he was being so funny and charming - barf!!

[@daisymae4587]

The laughter from all the men is as bad as the statement from Nelson. It's sick what members will laugh at.

[@jamiepotts6102]

I don't think many of us Millenials (or younger) have ANY idea how recently some of these changes have been made. When I started looking into church truth claims, I was blown away with how NOT long ago women weren't allowed to do a lot at church

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Oh yes, it’s very recent!

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

100% correct, a lot of change has happened because most women in the church go to work as the norm now and most women will not stand to be talked done to anymore. The church is having to play catch up. Look at the new Children ad Youth program which is the same for both biological sexes.

[@heather2884]

Yes, women have leadership over the young women and children, but only under the direction of a man. Is that really considered a leadership when women can only follow the directions of the men over them? I also had a leadership position over the young women. I was not able to do anything without the approval of the Bishop. I literally had to ask for anything and everything. Only to be denied for most of my plans and funds for the young women.

[@Petros-v2u]

It is odd that as local congregations we are sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to Salt Lake yearly in tithing funds, yet can't afford more than maybe a couple hundred dollars a year for the young women or any other auxiliary to fund activities. So we just end up not doing, or paying out of pocket when requests are denied. Well at least we have the $150 billion war chest in Ensign Peak for the second coming, right. Though I'm still puzzled what we will need the money to purchase in an apocalypse as the world burns. 🤔 Maybe we could fund some charitable giving or even a Young Women’s activity to improve lives now instead.

[@ScottJB]

Oh boy. Finishing on that last clip was just mmmwah *chef's kiss* 👌🏻 Rusty really is a special boy

[@cathyjo5259]

Wendy Nelson’s response was completely inaccurate and false. Women are not in charge of any organization. That’s incredibly frustrating!

[@brycebarker1582]

Thanks!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

My pleasure, cheers to you!

[@annwood6812]

That doughnut story couldn't be more demeaning.

[@saoirse7167]

I’m not sure if the ending is painful or funny 😅. At least he’s consistent… 🤷🏻‍♀️😅 Never mormon, just here for the drama.

[@boysrus61]

Wendy forgot to mention that every decision a woman in the church makes in a leadership position has at least 3 men in the ward and 3 men in the stake who immediately have veto power over what she says. I remember one time being in charge of a Christmas lunch immediately following sacrament. We had several delicious soups and breads lined up. I went to the gym right after the last speaker to set out the soups on the tables. I had asked the male chorister to please play 3 sing along Christmas hymn after the meeting to give me that much more time. Bishop said I could. I sent in a helper to remind the chorister to play the hymns and he refused because the Priesthood had not asked him. Soooooo everyone came immediately into the gym while we were still carrying in food. I have been in charge of multiple events for some pretty big events... I was treated like a doof and I was pissed I admit.

[@jeangarde841]

Never Mormon here & NO

[@my2cworth4U]

Notice The 'prophet' is now not the P Seer and Rev but the President of the corporation. As now stated in the front of the Book of Mormon.

[@Dutchess0909]

CEO?

[@Robbie-sk6vc]

Sure sounds like a business, not a faith, to me!

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

To be fair, let's look at the Bible. It has always been a man's world all about the men. This isn't a recent problem.

[@ppgranja3]

Religion has always been the problem

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

@@ppgranja3Not really.

[@gladtobefreeagain7375]

Still its been over 2,000 years since Christ himself respected female followers. LDS church treats women like it's 1840 Victorian England. Women are dependent, non-property owners with less authority than their sons & soon may have no say over their own bodies in Utah, ID, WY, AZ. They live in a time warp. 😊

[@erin6784]

Oddly, there is Biblical precidence for female leadership. Check out Deborah the Prophetess and Huldah.

[@chaotickreg7024]

Lots of women were removed from the bible or changed into men. There could have been women at the origins of these stories, but we wouldn't know reading the KJV.

[@cynthiaejiogu8442]

Sorry I can’t do monthly! Peace and love!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

No trouble, thank you for doing what you can!

[@Jayjays964]

You sure know how to answer the question, Nemo.

[@TheSaintelias]

I think Nelson was looking down at set notes to help him answer questions he had been given before. They never get questions the spirit hasn’t already given them in writing before.

[@Zodiacalesotericmatrix]

No, he is never comfortable being authentic with his position about women. He knows he is wrong but his ego won't allow him to change his outdated view of women.

[@Dutchess0909]

He is so creepy. Little creepy man with an oversized ego? Cult anyone?

[@bipolarrambling242]

I think that the difference in the duration of missions for sisters and elders really needs to be discussed more. Everyone just seems to accept it. The leaders won't say WHY is it so (though we can come to our own obvious conclusions), and no one pushes for an explanation. It's a blatant example of the way Mormonism sees women, and where their worth lies. That extra 6 months at home sure did give me lots of time to master the art of making donuts though.

[@nerdyneighbor]

Holy barf that outro was so gross

[@plporter]

at 12:20ish Wendy says that Jesus was the best advocate for women that ever lived !!!!! Wow, so if you can get closer to God/Jesus by reading the BoM than any other book, then why are there just a hand full of women even mentioned in the book, let alone the great and precious truth that were dropped in the Bible where Jesus elevated the position of women in backwoods of Palestine, are found where in the BoM?

[@jac9366]

Nemo I love your content, just feel a need to give some grammar input... it's "fewer" women, not ,"less" women being countable, or possibly more importantly in this context identifiable individuals.... it's also a thing that always grates on me as a maths teacher - the distinction between discrete and continuous.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Noted

[@elliek5350]

I am very supportive of Patrick Kearon's being among the Twelve, but the whole story of the way it happened (both referred to here - i didn't know he had to answer immediately, and the fact he was called not around the GC) is weird.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

It’s really strange right!?!

[@kentthalman4459]

The Church will never own an embarrassment.

[@jewelgazer]

In 1978 my brother converted to the LDS church and subsequently went on a mission. At his farewell speech (in Provo UT) me and my mom and dad were told by my brother that we were required to sit in the front facing the congregation. It was soooo uncomfortable and we hated it. What I don’t understand is that we were not LDS and my parents were heavy drinkers/smokers. I wonder why the bishop wanted this to happen?

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

That wards tradition, most likely. I've never heard of that "requirement" before and have been to lots of farewells over almost 50 years

[@jewelgazer]

It may not have been a requirement. I’m thinking that maybe my brother made us feel like we were obligated to go. I was thinking about the bishop as well - since it happened in 1978 he must have been pretty progressive!

[@gunterschott1]

Very informative thank you

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Very welcome

[@kathrynclass2915]

Oh… Is that why the women in the ward I’ve been in in California, at least, make desserts, or provide desserts for the men to have, and serve them to the men after their priest session? For most of my adult life, I’ve been in ward where the relief Society women are, asked to come and serve ice cream or pie or whatever kind of dessert to the men at the end of their priesthoodsession

[@jacobopstad5483]

I despise their obvious attempt to try and save face by making slow changes that they seem to hope no one will notice

[@georgegarwood6043]

For many years in the Ogden Tabernacle both men and women set on the, stand in stake conference in front of the presiding leaders.

[@daisymae4587]

The recent push (~6mos) has been for children to offer prayers at Sacrament meeting. Our recent stake conference with a visiting AA Seventy had children praying while the Authority smiled on. I don't think it has anything to do with the journey women have been in to experience more representation, but it's still notable. I believe the Church is trying to put younger and younger people forward in positions and experiences that endear them to the church with an eye toward retention.

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

100%

[@lcutie36]

There’s certain callings that doesn’t require the priesthood or males to perform but is only reserved for men with the priesthood such as Sunday School Presidency and Bishopric Secretary callings. Women can’t teach better than men ? Women can’t count attendance or fill out a deposit slip for the bank ?

[@kathleenwharton2139]

The Mormon church so encourages narcissism! Two evils..almost more than you can bear. I was married to a narcissist Mormon man and sucicidal for most of it. God Saved me from the man and the church Both! If you take a close look at Jesus life..He Saved and Freed humble people from the Pharisees Church of His Day! 😊❤

[@Dutchess0909]

Youre brilliant. So much factual info, well explained

[@Petros-v2u]

There's truth here, and as a father of two teenage daughters its my hope for the church to open up full equality to women including the priesthood. But Nemo, your argument at 8:50 from 1Cor 14:34 seems a bit disingenuous as the source of the LDS problem of falling behind (once again) with respect to women. Even attributing this particular gem to Paul in the context of the chapter is a stretch for new testament scholars, let alone acting as this is 'mormon' scripture, which I suppose is why the reference wasn't included.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

I think you’ve maybe misunderstood why I included that scripture. It was to point out that what Spencer W. Kimball said about there being “no scriptural prohibition against sisters offering prayers in sacrament meetings” was not true, and to say I think being a prophet who claims to speak for god requires more than just “checking the scriptures” as his position seemed to indicate.

[@Petros-v2u]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON Misunderstanding or not, I appreciate your journey. Dehlin will often talk about the courage of those who resign or have these incredible exit stories as bishops, etc. That definitely a path when the shelf breaks, I'm not judging as I considered it myself in 2014. Another courage though is the understanding while the church isn't what we were taught it was, it is something that can change if there are people willing to move the leadership in that direction. Which I feel your attempting to do right now. I would like to see the women in the church issue turn out like the 1978 proclamation, in the 'better late than never' category with the membership greasing the skids of inspiration. Though at this point I'd take allowing the young women to pass the sacrament as a win. Its sad to see my 16 year old really want to participate more actively on the ecclesiastical side with really no options than to 'stay in your lane'. This wasn't the case in Paul's churches in early Christianity, women were active in the leadership. 1Cor 14:34, appears a late addition, and the garbage in Timothy is more obviously deuteropauline from well past the time of Paul. You would think some of these people at FairMormon could let the leadership in on that basic New Testament knowledge.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thanks for your follow up, I feel I understand your point better now. Cheers!

[@dallenford9592]

I'm a bit appalled at how blatantly Wendy lied about the status of women in the church. "In the Church... women actually do ALL the things that it requires a minister to be ordained in other churches." She then gives examples that, in some churches, anybody can do.... And also ignores the fact that in some of the churches that do require ministers to do those things, those ministers can be women! (Christianity is very broad, and she's incorrectly painting everyone with an extremely broad brush.) But if you think about things that most churches actually require ministers to do: perform weddings, receive confessions, dedicate graves, lead worship services (not just speaking, but actually planning, conducting, etc), perform baptisms (for those churches that require or encourage it), perform faith healings (again, not universal), etc.... yeah, Mormon women can't do any of that, as you have to be an ordained priesthood holder! So "women do ALL the things that it requires a minister to be ordained in other churches" is a complete lie.

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

I think she is talking about women giving talks and teaching gospel.

[@patbrain913]

I joined at 17, to me now, an exmo nothing has changed since the 60s. It was one of my shelf breakers

[@lynnjohns4650]

Laughable to hear RS women’s bday fireside video claim that Mormon women hold priesthood power- RMN & Oaks slide quotes specifically. If so, let’s make it official. 😊🙏

[@egriffiths8993]

Talk about women know your place. Stay home at conference cook for the men make sure they can inform you of what select parts they choose. This is why 99y olds shouldn’t be running anything. With best will in the world he was out of step with society back in the 1990s. As someone who’s never married and to late to have kids I’m so glad I’ve left. Hearing about a women’s place multiple times a week when you don’t have a place or a roll not being a mother would have sank me.

[@nomollyshere]

1978 women were allowed to pray in sacrament mtg??! 🤯🤯another reason I’m glad I left!!!

[@jeanmcguire9206]

Not even crumbs from the table.

[@robdidur11310]

What the h-e-double-hockeystick was on Elaine Q Cannon's shoulder...?? 👊🇨🇦🤔

[@codename495]

A corsage of Lilly’s

[@jordanjoestar-turniptruck]

Its so nice to feel vindicated after a lifetime of getting gaslit about how valuable supposedly I was in this "honorable" subservient role, whilst pushing this role on me and simultaneously telling me that im "encouraged to be educated." So may women in my family have been told to keep the peace with their abusers, and robbed of the financial independence to leave them. Others are proudly saying that "Heavenly Father won't let me have a mental breakdown." A clear cry for help! But it goes unneeded and laughed off as the norm. Its not about how many women are in leadership or how well represented we are is only the tip of the iceberg that indicates a much darker reality--whether correlated or causeated by our "separate but equal" role.

[@MustangWriter]

If any are ... they're as mean af!

[@my2cworth4U]

That last speech 😝😝😝😝😝😝 incredible.

[@SevenLlamas]

Oooh has Wendy learned to play the game...

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

Wendy is a smart cookie and everyone is aware that Prophet is at the passing on stage. I wonder how things in the church will change after he passes.

[@ShulaMG]

I’m an old feminist so the first thing that came to mind was from many decades ago, what mcp’s, ie male chauvinist pigs. The last speaker, whose wife and daughters were home cooking donuts, just blew my mind.

[@dystoniaawarness3353]

Id little girls are made to do things, raised to be a wife, it's in your soul. I call this ocd for me lol. I was forced to iron, knit, sew ect ect ect ect while my 8 brothers did whatever or as I call it have fun. Many a day with tears feeling this is unfair. Yes some was fun but all it did was make me not want to be married just to be a robot for a man. My gay brother did what he knew was right didnt go to the torture gay shock therapy. Now stil with his husband 50 years later. I'm old to. BTW spread rare, no cure Dystonia Awareness. I hate tremors

[@farronrice858]

Come on dude this isn't just the Mormon church. In general this is the way Christianity is. As far as the Mormon Church goes don't they say equal but different. That's what I heard growing up in the church and I'm 63.

[@jewelgazer]

In the current day many, many Protestant churches have female pastors who have gone to seminary and have been ordained.

[@Ambermerith]

Could you please give the time stamp for where he claimed in this video, or in any other video, that *only* the mormon church is this way

[@Foghorn-tr1je]

Equal but different is not equal by definition.

[@kristinrichmond8185]

@@Foghorn-tr1jeagreed. Maybe equally valued is a more true statement.

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

Modern Christiantiy in the western world has changed a lot and many positions women can hold now.

[@lorawhitfield6995]

That ending though…oof!

[@markh.harris9271]

Of course not; isn't this obvious? No, women are not equal to men in the mormon church, very obviously. marcus

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Sometimes the obvious needs laying out I suppose 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@TheRastacabbage]

Polygamy hasn't ended

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

It has on a temporal sense. However you’re correction, that a part of it still goes on. Maybe I should have said “altered polygamy”?

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

Joseph Smith had priestesses and matriarchs. What happened?

[@debbieshrubb1222]

He was pascifying women just as when he said Emma was an elect lady (while she towed the line) but then in D & C 132 threatens her when she objects to polygamy.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

@@debbieshrubb1222If you actually believe that section 132 was a revelation given to Joseph or that Joseph wrote it, you have problems. That section was faked by Brigham and company to justify their hormonal wickedness and keep the power in his own dirty hands. Joseph never practiced or preached polygamy. That was Brigham and his buddies. If you have ever read the D&C then you have read section 101. That is completely different from the 1835 and 1844 printings done under Joseph's direction. That was later taken out by Brigham and changed to what it is now. In the original printing under Joseph section 101 defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. It should make a person wonder why that was removed and 132 was added when you see the bitter fruits of polygamy.

[@carolyearsley]

@@icecreamladydriver1606 Smith definitely did practice polygamy. Fanny Alger's uncle, Levi Ward Hancock, quotes Smith in his autobiography. His son Mosiah Hancock was in charge of placing this remaining section into his father's autobiography in 1896. I will quote just a small part of Smith's original statement to Levi. As early as the Spring of 1832 Joseph said, "Brother Levi. The Lord has revealed to me that it is his will that righteous men shall take righteous women, even a plurality of Wives that a Righteous race may be sent forth Uppon (sic) the Earth preparatory to the ushering in of the Millennial Reign of our redeemer. For the Lord has such a high respect for the nobles of his Kingdom that he is not willing for them to come through the loins of a careles (sic) People--Therefore, it behoves (sic) those who embrace that Principle to pay strict attention to even the least requirement of our Heavenly Father." My shortened retelling of their plan here---Then Levi and Smith made a deal where Smith would get Clarissa Reed for Levi if Levi would get Fanny Alger for him. Levi did so by helping Fanny to escape her home through a bedroom window in the middle of the night. They both married the women not too long afterwards. One more thing. This is my take on why polygamy was started, in the first place, which I think is valid, from reading Smith's statement above. These men in the inner circle had descended from British royalty. Levi and Mosiah, for example, were related to John Hancock, the signer of the Declaration of Independence. They were in a very great hurry to pass on those genes before all the unwashed masses coming into the country watered them down. They had to do it rapidly, so chose polygamy as the most efficient way to accomplish their goal. If you would like, I will send the site where I found this information, so that you can read it in its entirety. It has some very revealing information that was too long for me to provide in this reply.

[@ChrisS-dt3vq]

Joseph added "scriptures" to control and for his needs and wants. First and foremost!!!

[@marebear6727]

So if "those particular" scriptures are fake, it's all fake!! Church is not true!!

[@giotrucking4115]

I bet that last clip from Nelson was in a Priesthood meeting, so no surprise women were at home.

[@sdfotodude]

Mr Burns loves the women folk

[@claudiacampbell3948]

After 6+ decades in the church, I can say, no way, no how. There is a pervasive attitude that their "priesthood", somehow "elevates" them above women. In the church and at home, to the extent that your comminucations with the Lord are in error, when not in line with theirs. Never the other way around.This attitude was reinforced when studying Ephesians. The 1 verses telling women to submit to husbands as to the Lord was taught, while totally ignoring the 3 verses telling husbands to love their wives as themselves and as Christ loved the church. Did I feel equal? No. I feel that Sis. Nelson did not actually answer the question.

[@jwoolleymn]

Wow. The ending word by President Nelson are cringeworthy. Maybe 1950s acceptable, not 2024. Sad.

[@suthatheplee2777]

A prophet’s USP 👍🏼👍🏼. A perfect term. Nelson has no USP to be sure

[@johnrowley310]

Women, Don't mess around with a priesthood holder. You will never get called out of the grave.

[@dorimosher9800]

Spoiler Alert: NO

[@jamesstevens504]

Men and women are not equal in or out of the church.Are they supposed to be. One is an apple one is an orange. Both are nice.

[@IcelanderLight]

12:42 The root cause of misogyny in the quorum of 12 comes from the domestic turbulence in the marriages of polygamist Mormon Jesus ... it colors the whispers and dreams he sends to the apostles...I think he needs a therapist

[@georgegarwood6043]

We all have our free agency

[@MegaJohn144]

I have a suggestion to give women a greater voice in the church. D&C 121:41 "No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood" If you hold the priesthood you have no business exercising positions of power or influence. " only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;" If you are going to exercise power or influence, do so, using these character attributes. Women would be the perfect choice to exercise power and influence. (1) They do not hold Priesthood, and (2) Women excel at persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, and love unfeigned. Problem solved. You're welcome.

[@jaymecarter8578]

I think it's a little dishonest to not reference what book the women not speaking in church is from. It's from the Bible.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Apologies, I thought it was fairly obvious from the visual that it was scripture.

[@jaymecarter8578]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON I could tell it was scripture, but I think it's important to distinguish which book. 😀 Section 132 is complete garbage, but there are troublesome passages in the Bible.

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

In short that would be a no. The Church outside of the Utah bubble is very different.

[@SirBonovox]

I have read through many of the comments here and feel the need to address what I think is the main issue many of the feminists posting here fail to see. Priesthood leaders preside in the church. Period. This is the way Christ set it up when He established His church 2000 years ago. Priesthood leaders have always occupied an office of authority concerning the things they have stewardship over. Women in the church have callings that give them stewardship over specific areas of responsibility, but it's not the same office of authority that a priesthood leader has. Things can be equal without being the same. Men and women are different, inside the church and outside the church. Here the scriptures and biology agree. In many ways women and men are equal, but not in all ways. Again, scripture and biology agree. Both are children of God and have equal value and worth. My wife and I are equal in many ways, but not all. I can do a lot of things she can't, and she can do a lot of things I can't. We're both equally important to our marriage and family and we both have equal power to destroy it or build it up. But she is not the husband and father, I am. And I am not the wife and mother, she is. She does NOT preside over the entire family, I do. And not just because I'm a priesthood holder. All husbands and fathers preside (occupy an office of authority) over their families, even if they don't want to, even if they're really bad at it. That's my responsibility and I'll be held accountable for it. My wife has her own areas of responsibility in our marriage and she'll be held accountable for that. I'm the head of the household, I'm the head of the family, and I'm the head of my wife. I know that last part really burns you feminists up but I agree with the scriptures even if most people are too afraid to say it. I know this seems too simple for most people but this is what the scriptures (and biology) make clear. It's NOT just a social construct. When people talk about wanting the church to change to accommodate a new social norm (i.e. a new social construct) they're really asking the church to abandon the bible's (and other scripture's) teachings. They're asking the church to abandon revelation. God made men and women different for a reason. It's NOT just a social construct. If you don't believe what God has reveled, then I can understand why you would want the church to change. But to all of those who say they believe the scriptures but still think there's no reason for the differences between women and men, think about what you're saying and why you're saying it.

[@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus]

Easy to say when you happen to be part of the group that gets to be considered an actual person.

[@deborahharding1248]

Nelson, is cringe worthy.

[@markkrispin6944]

Nelson is the Anti-Christ.

[@RyannJoyRule]

When rusty cringes at the question lololol

[@jimscott1246]

Not even close.

[@rebeccasirrine947]

Short answer? Nope.

[@paulbrungardt9823]

Mormons typically deceive---They will not be truthful about their cult behaviors inside the Temple--even between spouses, they will withhold knowledge about baptizing the Dead--Ceremonies for themselves to become Gods...CULT

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@paulbrungardt9823 you...BRAINDEAD.

[@johns1834]

If Jesus is the ONLY Son of God. Per John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, 1 John 4:9. Why do LDS think Lucifer is a son of God..ie..Jesus's brother?

[@marebear6727]

I didn't know this, but, apparently, many churches/religions believe this that Both Jesus & Lucifer were made as angels (brothers) & Christ was chosen or chose to come here to earth & set the example how we are suppose to live while Lucifer rebeled & then Christ goes from Angel to A new body & becomes God now himself! Ridiculous!

[@johns1834]

@@marebear6727 Yep. Ridiculous, but that is what the mormon religion is all about and mormons are absolutely convince they've got it right.

[@johns1834]

@@marebear6727 The mormons think that, not sure about other churches. Not only did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, but during his ministry, Jesus proved over and over that He is God and that is what His Church has taught for 2000 years. Now Satan would love you to believe he is Jesus's brother.

[@marebear6727]

@@johns1834 I'm exmormon & exeverything else! Exreligion, I chose a different path! Thanks!

[@johns1834]

@@marebear6727 I am an exmormon also and now realize Jesus Christ built one (1) 'universal' Church (not churches) to stand against the gates of hell and He promised to be with us until the end of the age. Meanwhile there are thousands of other false churches out there which Satan is using to trick souls to not look for the truth. LDS might not be as bad as some of the protestant baptist churches, but it definitely has it's own problems. Jesus gave us one universal Apostolic Church and he never abandoned his flock 'twice' like the mormons believe. St. Ignatius was a disciple of the Apostle John and would later become the Bishop of Antioch. In his writings, dated 107 AD, Ignatius affirms Jesus's Church as 'universal' (the Greek word for universal is; καθολικός which is pronounced catholic). God Bless You

[@johnrowley310]

Nemo is one COOL dude...

[@whitesalamander]

Nelson’s donut story pokes holes in women priorities of Mormon men 🍩😂

[@kentthalman4459]

Women, who we can give assignments to

[@ngatihine6072]

How ridiculous feasting on doughnuts? Nah, that is not acceptable. How many LDS women does it take to make doughnuts?

[@debbieshrubb1222]

Wendy is comparing apples and oranges.

[@marthagodivala6726]

oh my god.

[@cherry_lips_asmr]

Short answer, no