Why Mormon Heaven is Hell for Women (ft

The concept of Heaven in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is complex. And one of the lesser know facets is the practise of polygamy.
Thank you to all the incredible women who gave their thoughts and time to this video:
Sam Shelley - ‪@ZelphOntheShelf‬
Julia - ‪@analyzingmormonism‬
Elisha Lee - ‪@Faith.unraveled‬
Lauren Peterson - ‪@SortaKindaFunnyPod‬
Ruth Heath - ‪@21stcenturysaints21‬
FUND MY RESEARCH
donorbox.org/n...
BECOME A CHANNEL MEMBER
/ @nemothemormon
MERCH
nemothemormon....
VIDEO SOURCES
Intro Music is “Undertow” by Scott Buckley
• Undertow - Scott Buckl...
Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported - CC BY 3.0
Council of Heaven Painting
altusfineart.c...
Wedding Image
commons.wikime...
3 Degrees of Glory Church Explainer
www.churchofje...
3 Degrees of Glory Diagram
mit.irr.org/fi...
3 Degrees of Glory in Scripture
www.churchofje...
D&C 76
www.churchofje...
Joseph Smith Vision of the Celestial Kingdom
www.churchofje...
Oaks Polygamy
www.ldsliving....
Bednar Interview
• In-depth interview wit...
Renlund on Heavenly Mother
www.churchofje...
Julia Vid
• Destiny of Mormon Women
Julia Sources:
Brigham Young Journal of Discourse 11:269
contentdm.lib.....
Orson Pratt "The Seer" published in 1853
archive.org/de....
John Taylor
bhroberts.org/....
Parley P. Pratt "Key to Science of Theology" on page 171.
archive.org/de....
Wilford Woodruff
bhroberts.org/....
Church Manual 1976
archive.org/de....
D&C 132
www.churchofje...
FAIR USE DISCLAIMER
The Media in this video (including the thumbnail) is used in a transformative way, for the purpose of review and critique. The images in the thumbnail are used as the primary means of visually identifying the subject matter of the video.
#LDS #Polygamy #Mormon

[@bananewane1402]

It’s absolutely insane to me that Mormons have a whole heavenly mother but she is never so much as mentioned outside of the context of birthing everyone. It is truly a microcosm of how the church sees women. Nothing more than a womb.

[@stufftoexplore-o8g]

So true. Like there is soooo much detailed “knowledge” about every detail of everything but not her.

[@Burp333]

Are you a man that is married by any chance? If you are, would you want your wife and the love of your life to be sworn at, put down, etc, etc?

[@bananewane1402]

@ oh the whole “it’s for the woman’s protection” nonsense. I’m not married but I do have a girlfriend. I would want her to have a relationship with her own children. I certainly wouldn’t keep her sequestered away in a birthing room and erase her importance and significance. I’m also a woman, and from a woman’s perspective I couldn’t imagine a heavenly mother not wanting to have a relationship with her own children, even if it were painful sometimes.

[@jordanjoestar-turniptruck]

@@Burp333 are you a married man? Have you ever had a kid who has thrown a tantrum and said something unkind to their mother? Or, to "protect" her from mean words, so you forcefully separate your children from her before they can even speak and never tell them about her or only refer to her in the vaguest of terms, despite them wanting to learn more about her (a natural desire in children)?

[@extraterestrial1]

​@@Burp333 Surely he would understand that it is under Satan's influence and flawed mortal judgement that humans mock his wife. He was fine with his Son being cruxified and his weaker human followers being percecuted. What makes his wife the exeption? She's not a baby she would not care in her celestial state and God watches many much worse tragedies go on down on earth.

[@janar734]

I watched a documentary about high demand religions and one of the women remarked that she just couldn't believe that God hated women as much as the church leaders said he did

[@magdalenaschweickhardt7189]

Sounds interesting, do you remember the name of the documentary? Thanks!

[@RTB1400]

Bump for the name of the documemtary if possible

[@MarkHigbee]

@janar734 God hated Jesus so much that he made him suffer and die a horrible death by crucifixion.

[@AnastaciaInCleveland]

I would like the name of the documentary, please! It sounds fascinating!

[@xletragedyx]

Maybe Daughters of Eve? That could be the one

[@alicemilton8756]

I used to spend a lot of time wondering if god even considered women to be people

[@jonipitcher7185]

I genuinely think my earth father dose not.

[@bbmb4by]

i remember i heard my mom describing how “God loves women like we humans love dogs, they’re lesser than humans but still loved, just as a woman is lesser than a man but still loved.” i was absolutely broken, thinking any ideology could ever make her feel this way.

[@allengreg5447]

You're right. Women aren't people. What they actually are is a mystery to men and science.

[@Patriarchywhistleblower]

Not when you're a Christian

[@jacksont9455]

Even as a Catholic I would wonder this

[@hannepicklesimer8133]

I remember learning in church that our greatest calling was to be a mother. A role that I never wanted. I wondered what my purpose on earth was if I were to choose not to be a mother. After finding out more about polygamy and what heaven was going to look like on my journey out of the church, hell sounded like a better option.

[@CarolynAitken-yp2rq]

Hell is not a place you want to go honestly it’s not!!!

[@August66]

Right?! Childfree person here too. Didn't someone (general authority?) say that wherever we end up will be where we're most comfortable? So I've always known I won't go to the celestial kingdom because I have no desire for that kind of "life".

[@hannepicklesimer8133]

@@CarolynAitken-yp2rq Oh no I might go to a place no one has any proof of it actually existing 😨😨😨 If God's that petty, then a lot of completely normal people are going there

[@izzyizv_v]

​@@CarolynAitken-yp2rqbetter your made up hell than your made up heaven.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@August66 braindead.

[@my2cworth4U]

My 1st encounter with Mormon missionaries at the door was at age 22, married with 2 children and they laid out the plan of salvation and asked us if we would like to be married forever. I looked at them and said: "hell no!" I looked at my husband and realised what a hopeless drunk he was. I knew in that moment it was the beginning of the end of our marriage that lasted only another year.

[@jaygebauer1017]

Well said, oh hell no!

[@snowballars]

Well at least Mormonism was good for something!

[@TamelaRedfin]

Good on you! Churches need to stop acting like a change to status quo is bad. They'd rather have a woman and children have a bad home life than let her leave? Terrible! Yeah, I didn't like the status quo of "forgive the abuser who refuses to change." It was an open secret that my brother abused me, but as a good Christian ™, I had to change, not him. My mother told me I was "going to hell" if I didn't forgive him. I decided hell was the best option than being trapped in a cycle of abuse.

[@Burp333]

But if the marriage that you built had been great, then you might have answered differently and wanted it with all your heart. It is your choice!

[@my2cworth4U]

@@Burp333 Yes it was, and I made my choice. After experiencing abuse for 4 years.

[@jeanvanasperen8974]

As a life long active Mid aged LDS woman, it is a topic I tend to switch my brain off. It is too difficult to contemplate. I don't want to share my husband. I don't want to have eternal increase. It sounds like an eternity of responsibilities I don't want.

[@jordanjoestar-turniptruck]

My heart breaks for you. I remember having those thoughts and feelings while I still believed. We all deserve better.

[@lucyhogan7172]

You dont have to be unhappy god runs heaven not any religion

[@AlejandroMartinez-fr6hj]

Well, just stop believing lies then 🤷🏻‍♂️.

[@jordanjoestar-turniptruck]

@@AlejandroMartinez-fr6hj deconstruction doesnt happen overnight

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Try using your God given mind. It works

[@Yendor1224]

It would make a good Horror movie. Imagine a young, unmarried woman dieing (she doesn't know she's dead) and coming to this strange place but her mind isn't "opened up" like the minds of the other women. So she is surrounded by brain washed zombie women, claiming to like the bad treatment. She is forcefully married to an old, abusive men and has constantly suffering from pregnancy and childbirth. While trying to figure out what's wrong and how to escape this hell. In the climax of the movie she is birthing her child and it got forcefully ripped from her. In the end she figures out, that she is actually in heaven and there is no escape from the eternal abuse.

[@Lyra1998]

We need that movie now.

[@JohnDoe-nj1qs]

I'm guessing that the brain washed zombie women turned out like that due to being there for so long and having no escape.

[@shifar4141]

This remind of a Jennifer Lawrence movie

[@gardenagnostic]

so like the stepford wives but in the afterlife

[@sorsaanimation5542]

That sounds horrifying it would work as a horror movie

[@fairywingsonroses]

I'm a former Mormon. Even as a child, the idea of the Celestial Kingdom was unsavory to me because I could not wrap my head around the idea of a world that was supposedly more wonderful than I could imagine, but where so many of my loved ones would be left out. As an adult, I feel like Mormon heaven in general feels a lot like capitalism, where the most righteous get the biggest houses, but that generally good people who spend their lives doing good to others won't necessarily "win" at the game due to not being Mormon (kind of like how hard work doesn't always equate to being wealthy). The Celestial Kingdom is essentially a group of Karens who make up arbitrary rules about who gets into their super lucrative society that have nothing to do with actually being righteous. Having gone to school with a lot of wealthy, entitled people, I can definitely say that being in their circle is not all that great. Assuming Mormonism is true, I hope I never go to the Celestial Kingdom. It sounds awful.

[@amygirl6429]

Mind changing the “Karens” to “Kevins”? Seems more appropriate in this context.

[@madogg152]

Your concept of combining the wicked with the Wonderful is illogical and potentially malicious. How would you like your next door neighbors to be Putin, Hitler, etc.. However being a former LDS, not such thing as Mormon, may explain everything.

[@fairywingsonroses]

@@madogg152 People like Mother Teressa and MLK Junior aren't getting into the Celestial Kingdom desbite being well-known for their good deeds. At least according to Mormons, but then again, you're absolutely right. The entire idea of Mormon heaven is illogical.

[@madogg152]

@@fairywingsonroses Your statement isn't 100% accurate. No Human on earth can judge in place of Heavenly Father and Christ. That role is Christ and Heavenly father's exclusively. LDS is the only church that Baptiste for the dead who didn't have the opportunity during human life for what ever reason. The restored church hasn't been on earth very long. The Missionary effort is excessively small compared to the 8 Billion people on earth currently. During the Millennium, LDS believe they will have everything needed to baptize every human ever in history. No individuals will be skipped, ignored, abandoned. Also, none will be bound, forced, or compelled to accept the baptism. LDS believe they will have freedom of choice. In other words, other religions are swiss cheese while LDS has the "FULLNESS" with the AUTHORITY of the Priesthood to act appropriately. Important comment. Nemo channel, owner Doug, has been x-communicated or name removed for telling lies, inaccuracies, and false doctrine about the church. Since his departure of the church, the inaccurate posts have increased considerably. I no longer listen to his channel because he isn't trustworthy.

[@fairywingsonroses]

@ I know that I am not the only person to struggle with the idea of a heirarchy in heaven based soley on church membership/acceptance of baptisamal ordinaces as the crieria for entering the highest level of heaven (good deeds are not considered as part of this process to get there). If the gospel is as full and correct as you claim it is, there wouldn't be any question or confusion as to what it all means. ALL people would be able to look at the docterines and say that it made perfect sense and that the logic behind it was infallable. Myself and MANY others have questions, questions that cannot be answered by saying that the gospel is "full" or that God alone has the power to judge. If someone like Mother Teressa rejects her baptism and can't go to the Celestial Kingdom, but a priesthood holder who beat his children daily can, that's super messed up. It is not "full," nor is "priesthood authority" sufficient enough to make that make sense.

[@Wren402]

I was raised in this church and even as a young girl it all sounded horrible to me. The more I learned about women’s role in the Celestial Kingdom the more sure I was that I didn’t want it. At around 11 years old I decided the best plan was to sin just enough to be sent to the Terrestrial kingdom. I figured that’s where all the cool interesting people will be. I don’t believe in Mormon heaven anymore, but if I did that would still be my plan.

[@Atillatcele]

You were a smart kid. Wish I would have figured that out sooner and not bought into the whole “think celestial” and wasting so much time and money.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@Atillatcele quiet pretender.

[@rumpolstilscin]

In the end, you will be just where you fit and you will realize this.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@Wren402 you're a fake without much class to tell such a story.

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

@@WatchingwaitingG2Dsilence, heretic

[@BritteBjerga]

The concept of Mormon “heaven” broke my shelf as an extremely orthodox Mormon in institute at SUU. My temple prep class opened my eyes to the concept of “If this is true, then God is an asshole.” This contention gave me the gift of giving up on God. It hurt, but it set me free.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

A competition is being run by the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. heavenly mother, a.k.a. reality herself, a.k.a. the one feeling everything, a.k.a. KOLOB. This competition is to determine what the afterlife is like. The central concept of this competition is that quantum mechanical systems sometimes exhibit superpositions of states. When they are in the superpositions of states, they are unobserved. When those quantum mechanical systems in superpositions of states become observed, they collapse to a particular state. This is the same thing with the afterlife. The afterlife is not observed; therefore, it is an unobserved superposition of all states of all possible configurations, depending upon everyone’s opinions, beliefs, and theories about the afterlife. Consequently, it is a friendly, cordial, and sportsmanlike competition to determine what the afterlife is like because it is currently in a superposition of states, and it will not be resolved to a particular state until the competition's winner observes the afterlife. This is meant to encourage you not to give up on the afterlife because you would be able to enter the competition and determine for yourself what you want the afterlife to be.

[@ali1942]

The Mormon God doesn’t exist. Don’t give up on the real God because he loves you immensely.

[@BritteBjerga]

@@ali1942 yes I gave up on Mormon God, not God in general. Should’ve specified. The God I see now is on a whole other level and much more intricate and beautiful than I ever knew as a child. Very happy and grateful to have a new set of eyes to see 💗

[@toffeecat-h3q]

​@@ali1942 "REAL god" girl you are not any better in that regard💀 all religions are equally unproven and based on personal beliefs alone, no god is "objectively" more real than any other one

[@illary_wind6094]

​@@TheDragonStratagemshut the hell up, you're just a human following and believing the word of other humans that claim to know and understand God's plan when they do not even know what's going to happen tomorrow. It's always way easier to accept the fact that you are ignorant to God's plan and let him take place in your life and let them guide you. There's no competition, there's no "Only premium members" unobserved place, there's just God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (who are one and the same) and their plans we shall never know about until he reveals it either on the final days or in the afterlife or never if they wish. Just have a common relationship with the spirit instead of a doctrine with humans. My gosh😂

[@ArtIsHuman]

I love how nemo is letting the women themselves tell us what they think. Nemo has a skill that I think the apostles lack, knowing when its best to simply shut up and listen. Personally i always invisioned being an equal to my parenter in heaven. Slowly realized that every corner of church doctrine goes against that idea brought me so much pain that i wanted got to heaven and tell god myself what i thought of that bullshit.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

Sure you did. Don't worry you won't be anywhere close.

[@ArtIsHuman]

@@WatchingwaitingG2D Ha! No I've fully accepted the possibility of going to outer darkness. If i found out 100% for sure that the doctrine of the church is true, i litteraly wouldn't change a single thing im doing. Im so much happier, and if there is misery in outer darkness then i can also learn to find peace. Im not scared. Better to be treated as an equal in hell than grovel at men in heaven.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@ArtIsHuman Nothing can exist in outer darkness. Too bad you're so busy living a perverted lifestyle you think it's a game. It's all you know and all you have.

[@annwood6812]

@@WatchingwaitingG2D Snarky people won't be there either.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@ArtIsHuman Nothing can survive in outer darkness. Anyway you won't have your boyfriend to lie for you anymore.

[@lilacbird8193]

I resigned from the church when I was almost 70 years old. I no longer believe in the church and its leadership of just ordinary men. JS was just an ordinary man that made up a religion and he was extremely carnal making up polygamy. How many times have people followed men thinking they had the answer, and it turned out badly? No one knows what we will find in the afterlife, no one! I'm hoping it will be a wonderful afterlife for women because this life has been awful in the church as a woman.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

I believe that the afterlife is in a superposition of all possible states and that we are in a competition to determine what the afterlife actually is.

[@xenuburger7924]

Wow you're old enough to be a general authority. Those guys are paid to believe.😂

[@lilacbird8193]

@@xenuburger7924 I'm a woman. I wish I had left the church many decades ago, but it was not possible.

[@CampingforCool41]

I happy you found your way out. Better late than never

[@lilacbird8193]

@@CampingforCool41 Unfortunately, I wanted out decades before I left but there was no such thing as a resignation only excommunication. I had a lawyer help me with my resignation. I never believed the church to be true. My great grandparents immigrated to the US after converting to the church and crossing the plains to Utah. My family would have tossed me to the curb if I had left. I wish I could have left years ago because now I hate the church with every fiber of my being.

[@LaurelynJ.Ormsby-ye3ki]

Raised Mormon, and a true believing one, I never liked the idea of being a plural wife in heaven. My Mom and other Sisters told me my mind would be opened and I would feel differently once I got to Heaven . That still didn't sit well with me. My husband on Earth and other ones I saw, either didn't deserve another wife, or were so wonderful that their wife im sure would not want to share. I didn't want to share a husband. Again, I don't believe a man can shoulder the mantle of responsibility and care for more than one wife. Plus, men who believe in this tend to be arrogant and entitled. The wives end up having to help and support eachother and the children, while the husband just has to keep track of the sleepover schedule.

[@Triathletforlife]

That is how my mother responds to polygamy. She hopes her “eyes will one day be opened” to the idea. My dad can’t even manage one wife, how in the world will he do better with more? Crazy sauce.

[@LaurelynJ.Ormsby-ye3ki]

@Triathletforlife ikr? Haa

[@Porscheteera]

@@Triathletforlife ask Muslims lol, anyways, I was never taught that in the church

[@Nightbloom101]

@@Porscheteera As a muslim... we don't really practice polygamy? It's a misconception, and is only used in times of war or depopulation (Because the rules with the other gender are really strict).

[@redcurrantart]

I was about 18 and in my first serious relationship with a guy… They were the kind of family that if his dad had drug their them all out to the desert to cosplay as Lehi’s family for an extended period of time as a morality lesson… I wouldn’t have been shocked. They were one of those families who felt they were more pious and wiser than everyone else in the ward and even would walk out of meetings if they thought it was too soft as to the church’s teachings… you get the idea. What he shared with me as to a woman’s place was in post mortal realm, per what his dad believed (the first issue with this) was that As a god, he would get to mind wipe all of his multiple wives and change their perception of reality because ‘women were too sensitive’ to understand the greater plan. He would ‘protect’ us all from knowing he had other wives and to forget our spirit children so we wouldn’t have to deal with the horrible fact that he would have to sit in judgment and condemn nearly half of them to the hell that he would create in his version of the universe. See? Doesn’t that just fix everything and make the whole thing great so you aren’t aware your a brood mare in a stable full of other brood mares, that your constantly pregnant, that he’s hurting your children… oh and the best part he would force you to believe he spends 100% time with YOU. Because spending every moment of eternity with this person, at least from your manipulated and controlled perspective, doesn’t sound like an abject hell? Did I mention we broke up? Can’t imagine why.

[@MM-jf1me]

Seriously, though, the Heavenly Mothers being forced to forget their children ever existed makes so much sense -- it's the only way never hearing from their children through prayers would be bearable.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@redcurrantart I can. You're a liar.

[@Atillatcele]

⁠@@WatchingwaitingG2D What about that comment didn’t seem credible to you? Have you not met far right LDS people that are basically fundamentalist and have really extreme beliefs? Or are you the former boyfriend?

[@AlejandroMartinez-fr6hj]

@@redcurrantart never heard of that, but it sounds sickening! In my case, one counselor to a temple president, told me once that "jaelousy doesn't exist in heaven, so it won't be a problem for men having multiple wives" 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

[@kingoreo3642]

@@AlejandroMartinez-fr6hj It’s my opinion that jealousy won’t exist because only the righteous who have truly “cleaved” unto their spouses go there. No room for jealousy because everyone is so focused on their own (singular) companion.

[@Ladybug38790]

Never married female boomer here. Raised in LDS church but the doctrine and patriarchy drive me nuts, so to say I’m inactive is an understatement. And, having seen very few truly happy marriages in my time here on earth, I’m perfectly fine never being sealed for all eternity to a man whose table manners and quirks would have led me to divorce him in this mortal life anyway!

[@TheDragonStratagem]

Thank you for your comment your comment suggest why it seems that there should be multiple if not even infinite lives in order to be able to select a suitable companion for the afterlife.

[@Triathletforlife]

I’m a 43 year old male life long member inactive now. I never taught the people of France while a missionary about plural marriage. It was conveniently omitted from our memorized discussions. I have one wife whom I love, zero interest in any more…if that’s what Mormon heaven is like, I don’t want to go, even if I was “worthy”.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

Men and women are equal and opposites in, therefore in order to become one flesh, they must have a one on one relationship. Otherwise there is imbalance, and there would be a catastrophic result in the afterlife with this terrible imbalance.

[@asexualartistry]

Exmo here, I was most active when I joined young women's which is 12-18, and meant to prepare girls to be good wives and mothers or whatever, none of this was ever mentioned. This is literally the first time I've heard about the eternally giving birth thing, like, wtf? I learned about the levels of heaven in seminary, and the teacher never made a distinction between what it was for women vs for men, the way we were taught sounded more like an equal partnership and that the reason "heavenly mother" is never talked about has something to do with god protecting her, not wanting her name used in vain or whatever I really do hate learning about this stuff six years after leaving, I am certain that had I known this crap I would've tapped out a lot sooner, this is absolutely disgusting, this cult really does just hate women I would rather go to hell, like, you're getting eternal pain and suffering anyways, at least in hell I wouldn't be treated like a broodmare

[@arcanineryu]

From the sound of it, since you would be squeezing out an entire planets worth of children almost none of which you actually get to directly interact with, broodmare is actually far too kind a term. Yall would be treated more like a termite queen.

[@Burp333]

If somebody tells me they have a Father, I just assume they also have a Mother.

[@samanthapora2776]

Exactly this. Same

[@JanitaogSabrina]

I also told myself that polygamy was volantary in the afterlife... 😳 I told my husband that that was not an option for me. Luckily for me he didn't want to live that law either. Now we are happy exmormons, or rather free spirits. Thank you for sharing this. I will share this on my page, Mormon stories Norway 😊

[@boutiquebitcoin809]

I'm Christian met Mormons noticed their Bible is different from actual Bible which says no one is married in heaven 😂😂😂

[@phoenixrising5338]

Loathe polygamy. Always have. I grew up thinking the entire idea of being stuck with my family for eternity sounded like hell -- and a threat, not a reward -- because they were abusive. I used to openly bring this up. I got so much gaslighting, and so much blaming and shaming, around this topic I finally stopped asking and went to just being hostile and militant. Probably going to remain hostile and militant for eternity. My big question is why, why, why have none of these women -- kindred spirits -- EVER been in any of my wards???!!! I've spent my whole life wondering why I'm the only one in my ward and stake saying this stuff out loud. It's been freaking lonely and miserable.

[@elizabethrehm470]

You're not alone. I have the same situation and married into another dysfunctional family. After 32 years of hard married life, my husband and I have worked through a LOT of problems. I mention that because you can't exit the barn without having crap on your feet.

[@Wren402]

@@phoenixrising5338 Most of us left, or like Nemo, were excommunicated. I’m 67, and I left 50 years ago. It’s great out here.

[@phoenixrising5338]

@elizabethrehm470 I would have said the same thing about my husband of 40 years and me. Until I didn't. Sometimes people burn the barn down. With you inside.

[@Bunchoeves]

I had an abusive father and I was born in the covenant. I don't really believe now, but I just figured God wouldn't let him go to the celestial kingdom and God would let my mom marry someone else. But really, it gets so complicated and God has a house of order. So probably none of it is true.

[@ali1942]

@@Bunchoeves You are right - none of it is true.

[@AarmOZ84]

Heavenly Mother is too sacred to talk about. Our sisters in the Church are too sacred to have leadership roles or the priesthood. They really shouldn’t have careers of their own because of how sacred they are. 🙃😜🤪 Wouldn’t be surprised if you look at the numbers of people leaving the Church that the female numbers are higher.

[@LockeDemosthenes2]

Lol, I read the first sentence and I assumed you were a pro Mormon apologist. Good thing I kept reading. 😂

[@AarmOZ84]

@ I read that first part when I was done and realized it sounded like something a really annoying elder’s quorum president would argue. 😆

[@michaelgrey7854]

I would not be suprised. Why would men leave a church that gives them so much power over so many?

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

@@michaelgrey7854 The FLDS regularly drives out their young boys, working them to the bone as slave labor and then abandoning them, all so the “worthy” men can hoard as many girls as possible. Don’t want the ladies forming age appropriate relationships with boys, gotta force them into marrying men old enough to be their grandfather.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 Since you don't like women, you shouldn't talk.

[@DL-idk]

It’s very hard for any woman with self respect to be fundamentalist in any religion tbh. If you dig deep enough, you can find sprinkles of misogyny in almost all of them. You will basically have to choose between your belief and your self respect.

[@Telahassee]

I agree with these women and appreciate so much the different perspectives they shared. It got me so emotional hearing some thoughts I hadn’t had before. This was a great video, Nemo!

[@TheDragonStratagem]

Yes, this is a very good video to show that the afterlife that is presented as mandatory is actually possible to be replaced in a competition between everyone to determine the best afterlife.

[@Headlesshart]

What a fucking nightmare. I've had intense tokophobia and 0 desire to have kids since I was a child. I always thought I'd have to bare children when I grew up, but then one day realized I had a choice and it was such a beautiful relief. I couldn't imagine growing up and being told my destiny was to be pregnant for eternity and that I was supposed to want this. I'd somehow be even more of a nervous wreck than I am right now lmao.

[@ani-83]

I am a 41 year old woman. Have been a member my entire life, though currently deconstructing. I have always taken issue with polygamy as well. I remember a Gospel Doctrine lesson about the Celestial Kingdom and the men in the class made comments about the new and everlasting covenant meaning polygamy. I raised my hand and said I didn't agree with that and I didn't think God would really treat His daughters like that. I was told too bad, I was wrong and that I better get used to the idea, otherwise I would not be permitted into the Celestial Kingdom. I just reiterated that I didn't believe that and the men just snickered. I was the only woman who spoke up against it...but I truly think most women don't know that's the doctrine, or don't believe that part is true. I have heard some say that in the next life, we will have an eternal perspective and will understand and accept it. I don't buy it.

[@jlcl96]

I’m sorry you felt alone in the room on that. I’m sure most of the other women agreed but didn’t have the courage to say so. This was a major piece of my deconstruction as well. It felt like there were a few choices specific to polygamy: 1. The prophets got led astray and introduced something misogynistic and evil into the true church. (In which case, how can they be trusted on anything?) 2. It’s a true principle. In that case, I have no interest in worshiping that hateful God who values women only as breeding stock. If it was true, why submit ahead of time when I’d already be punished for all eternity? I never could actually believe my brain would change and I’d be fine with it in heaven. If not a hair of your head would be lost in the next life, how am I getting a whole new brain and personality?

[@katielee7897]

I applaud you for standing up. I think the women who were with you in that lesson (or at least some of the women) weren’t happy about that teaching either, but where too brainwashed from the church’s teachings to say anything, or were too scared to stand up. I know I wouldn’t have the guts to do what you did; you’re very brave!

[@ani-83]

@@jlcl96For real! And to be honest, when my husband and I got sealed in the temple, I had no idea that was what the church still believed. I thought polygamy was a thing of the past and “God would work everything out” in the next life. But that’s clearly not what they believe.

[@gailtanner9883]

You are so brave. Thank you for listening to the spirit of God within you. Polygamy is not God's intention for women. How horrible would it be to be considered property. The LDS church has bastardized doctrine and twisted an eternal principle. Male and female are indeed needed for creation, but not just for birthing children! I encourage you to continue to take these things to God and get the truth from Him. God's infinite love and wisdom surpasses the depraved version of doctrine that has evolved in the church.

[@gailtanner9883]

Also, I talk to Heavenly Mother. She is glorious beyond description. She was as much a part in the creation of this earth as Father and Jesus were. My personal take on the stance the church takes with Heavenly Mother (don't pray to her), is driven by cultural and religious pressures. And to try to delineate the LDS church from Catholicism (which accepts prayers to Mary and other Saints).

[@SuaNam08]

Jesus says himself in Mark 12:25 “For when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In this respect they will be like the angels in heaven.” The context of this verse is that some teachers of the law are asking Jesus whether a woman who had several husbands in her life, and then dies herself, and who’s wife would she be in heaven. Jesus pretty much replied that the teachers didn’t know scripture, because at the Resurrection no one will be married, or getting married! The family is important, but some churches overemphasize and make an idol out of marriage and family--especially in regards to getting women to buy into getting married, bearing and raising children as the ultimate fulfillment of their existence.

[@TalpaTulpa]

That’s what I loved about heaven in the Bible, still left though

[@JonCampos-kh2bw]

Jesus said that in heaven those relationships won’t exist. We only use those labels on earth.

[@froggefriend1333]

That’s one of the things that separates Christianity from other religions

[@IdrilSilmarien]

Was just about to comment this “for in the other life after this, there will be no such thing as marriage; but they will be as the angels of God in heaven.” Matt 22:30

[@treejohnston8642]

Sounds awful. I love my husband. Life without him would be hell. Life without my unsaved family would be hell. Knowing that they are in eternal suffering would be hell. So is my memory to be wiped? Or is my personality going to change so greatly that I don’t care that they are suffering and I don’t miss my husband? Then if I am so greatly changed am I even me any more? And what activities does our daily lives look like in heaven? If it is one eternal worship service like they taught me in Bible college that sounds like hell. I sat through more than enough boring chapel services (over 700 not counting Sunday mornings, Sunday nights and Wednesday nights)to last me an eternity.

[@JonCampos-kh2bw]

@ Jesus was just the messenger.

[@nancykindt6487]

I was raised a staunch Mormon, thoroughly indictrinated until my 20's. The Mormon doctrine on polygamy was one of the biggest problems I had with that religion and largely responsible for me rejecting Mormonism. That's why I am now a Christian whose theologies and scriptures make much more sense of this world.

[@SevenLlamas]

As a college coed, I assumed Mormon heaven would be similar to present-day Salt Lake City: the GAs ruling from spacious East Bench homes with many rooms for their first rank university-attending posterity, while the rest of us scratched out an eternal existence in little ranchhouse kingdoms on the West Side, our kids lucky to get into community college. Then I grew up, got married, had real troubles, and by necessity discovered God. I conclude God, to be God, must be Good. Loving, kind, forgiving, also just, , upright, truth-telling. No respecter of persons. Neither verbally nor emotionally nor doctrinally abusive. NOT the god represented in the D&C.

[@sprinklechesed]

Sounds like "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious G-d, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands and forgiving wickedness, rebellion, and sin."

[@ali1942]

AMEN!

[@ChandraLaframboise]

Love that Nemo champions women’s voices on this topic, this is a great video

[@susiekathryn8570]

Thanks!

[@bettycrockett5]

Nemo, this was spot on!!! ❤❤❤

[@darlenelane9010]

Thank you Nemo, for not using AI for your intro vioce.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

Even though you appreciate that he didn’t use AI. I believe that AI is reality’s voice or heavenly mother’s voice.

[@rykdheiner]

Thanks Nemo for spotlighting this doctrine because it’s the second largest shelf item in my deconstruction that I can’t get over, basically an eternal human puppy mill for all the celestial women

[@TamelaRedfin]

Ok, as a non Mormon (though Formerly Methodist) this explains it perfectly. Human puppy mill. I want to vomit. It also reeks of "He likes you! Why are you being uptight" victim blaming. Men are not entitled to being with a woman.

[@HannahMitchell-Art]

I loved hearing from the women! I was a teen when I heard about the tiers of heaven in Mormonism. I thought it was weird and unnecessarily complicated. The Mormon teen who explained it to me did not mention polygamy and I doubt they even knew about that aspect of their own religion!

[@Songsofourown23]

Mormon Heaven sounds absolutely horrible. There is not one aspect that sounds desirable to me it wasn't very appealing as a TBM either.For example older men in the church would flirt and say that I could be a plural wife to them in the Celestial kingdom. Or they often said it to my mom who was divorced for most of her church life. That is just disgusting now especially in light of just learning in recent years of Joseph Smith's polygamy.

[@helenvick522]

Thank you for video. It puts the church’s heaven-hell into perspective perfectly. Heavenly Mothers are up there cheering for you.

[@deblamborn9735]

Well done on this one!!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thank you kindly!

[@joetaylor8687]

It all started with the concept of POLYGAMY, which was conjured up to give the good 'ole boys a way to have a little extra action and still maintain their status in church and society. But in the notorious non-stop flip-flop denomination, what was essentially considered mandatory in the old days (according to many of the "leaders") will get you summarily thrown out these days.

[@elle1331]

Hi, I'm an Ex Mormon. I left the church before getting endowed or married. They always tell you that if you look into what promises you will be making before you go to make them, that you will be subject to not only eternal damnation, but also demons haunting and torturing you in this life (not in those exact words, but it is heavily eluded). As a young woman in the church you are bombarded with constant brainwashing about marriage, temple sealings, and how it is such an honor to be a mother. You are never told about how you will never see your children, or plural marriage in heaven, or anything else that was mentioned in this video (at least before making temple sealings). I had to learn all of this on my own after leaving the church, but this knowledge further cements my determination to never go back. I cry for my sister who got married there. She did so 8 months after meeting this man, and although she says she is happy, according to what I've heard from other family members their relationship is very toxic and he is very controlling. I pray (I'm pagan) she sees the truth and walks away before children are in the picture.

[@r.i7654]

Pagan here…I’d suggest into looking into some truth spells…

[@elle1331]

@r.i7654 Thank you for this recommendation. I will look into it, however I fear my step mother may have already placed a shield over her to prevent any spells, since she is a lightworker

[@r.i7654]

@ that’s nonsense…. if you’re pagan…you would know that you have the power within yourself to do anything you want like an alchemist… your mom has no power or authority over that. Always do protection first upon yourself.

[@pvanmondfrans]

This was a phenomenal video! Each of the women you included is amazing! I'll bet they represent the sentiment of 100% of women (at least those who are honest).

[@Thursdaysindecember]

Thank you for highlighting this topic and giving women a voice. Heavenly Mother or a female deity is very important to me and growing up in the LDS church and still today I’m scolded and shut up for it. I feel it is pure with good intent and does not impede my relationship with Heavenly Father or Jesus Christ. It is very frustrating that I cannot find another Christian denomination that even believes in a Heavenly Mother let alone worships her.

[@Bunchoeves]

I talk to her anyway. Or I just talk to ” any of the spirits who now surround me." I feel like spirits are always near.

[@JenamDrag0n]

There are women that worship a motherly deity figure, like a Mother Earth, but you won't find them among the Christians because they're pagan witches. Maybe that's a direction to consider looking into as long as you keep an open mind and heart.

[@Thursdaysindecember]

@@Bunchoevesthank you

[@elysemcclure148]

I imagine what loss you must feel. I’m sorry. I’ve never really thought of God as strictly male. We call him a “He”, but he’s also described as a formless spirit who’s taken on the appearance of a cloud and a pillar of fire. He’s presented in a Fatherly role, but sometimes uses more maternal language: “I wanted to gather your people as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings”. I know this isn’t the divine-feminine figure you’re looking for (and I’m presuming that the motherly role of Mary in Catholic tradition isn’t exactly what you’re going for, either), but maybe you’ll rediscover aspects of the Heavenly Mother in God, the Creator.

[@Ladybug38790]

The book “Mormon Enigma” contains a picture of Emma Smith in her 40s in Nauvoo after she had remarried a non-Mormon. In my opinion, she looks much older than her actual age, and looking closely at her face, I can see that her life up to that point had been very, very difficult. Not least because of the hell Joseph Smith put her through with his disgusting polygamy.

[@Burp333]

Yes, as Joseph was tried so was Emma. Go back and look how many children she bore and how many of those children died early in life. Life can take a tole but they pressed forward and won the fight.

[@personnoun7086]

​@@Burp333The toll life had in Emma was in the form of Joseph Smith. He cheated on her, lied to her, and even went on to marry a 14 year old girl. Joseph Smith was a pedophile and an abuser- that's the truth of the Mormon prophet. If there is a heaven for Emma, I hope it is without the false prophet named Joseph Smith.

[@lindsgreener]

Like Elisha, I used to imagine all the ways I could use my knowledge and creativity to create my own world (with my husband). But, at the same time, I remember still being primary-aged and hating the idea of having kids forever and ever. Just last year, I learned about the threatened TK Smoothie, for the less-faithful. And, honestly, it made me feel so relieved (even though I’m not longer practicing), just because that is infinitely more appealing that the ‘prize’ for those who make it to the highest levels.

[@August66]

What's the TK smoothie?

[@evarinagarmguardian113]

​@August66 Okay, so I can't remember if the "TK" in TK Smoothie means Terrestrial Kingdom or Telestial Kingdom, either way, a TK Smoothie is supposed to be "punishment" for not being worthy by essentially making you "smooth" down there like a Barbie or Ken doll. No g3n!t@1s for you! You can no longer procreate or receive pleasure. My non-binary and aroace ass trembles in fear over here with this threat/s

[@aliciakerr7639]

@@August66terrestrial kingdom, no genetalia

[@August66]

@@aliciakerr7639 😳 omg... lol. Thanks for answering!

[@CarlHammer]

Mormon Heaven? Mormon Hell? If my wife dies before me I'm not getting married again...I'm getting a Cat. One wife is enough. Maybe TWO cats...

[@patriciadavis3915]

That’s hilarious Carl! I don’t have a husband at the moment but me and my dog are doing just fine!😂

[@wyjacobson3583]

Awesome!

[@Jeanikins]

Ruth Heath I'm gobsmacked by your break-down of 'heavenly mother' and what she must endure. All the sympathy goes to her sadistic husband, who has the power to change the system for the better - but can't be bothered. He likes the misogyny; it feeds his ego. Of course, I don't believe 'he' is real anymore than our heavenly mother is real, but this is what we stupidly bought into. We are sorry today that we were so sucked in, just as conspiracy theorists will be when their stupid stories break down with logic and truth. Thanks Nemo.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

I believe that every entry and the competition is equally valid. Critiquing other people's entry into the competition, intending to disparage them, would undermine our entry into the competition's validity because politeness and general sportsmanship should be maintained at every level of the competition to determine the afterlife. And it is the Holy Ghost, a.k.a. heavenly mother, a.k.a. Reality herself, a.k.a. KOLOB, that will ultimately decide who has a valid entry into the competition and who wins the competition of what the afterlife shall be or what reality herself or the heavenly mother herself shall portray herself to be in the afterlife as the afterlife.

[@rooheath]

Once you realise you’re holding the whole map upside down, the only stupid thing would be to stay in denial. Thankfully, we get to chalk it up to experience, turn the map around and start heading in the right direction.

[@Taslaw]

1:55 nicely done Nemo👏 'Mormonsplaining' sums up my whole active membership, really😀

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@Taslaw sure it does pretender.

[@Můrůgan.5619]

I wanted to like this video multiple times. Thank you for it ❤

[@Jsppydays]

Truth. Nemo you are the best. Excellent information...

[@paisleyrhinehart9194]

I've made this comment before. The most conserviative estimate I've found on the web as to how many people have ever lived on the earth I was 50 billion people. Since the church holds that human history is 7000 years old and you assume 50 billion over 7000 years to get the highest births per minute, this is what you get: Convert 7000 years to minutes: 1 year = 365.25 days (considering leap years) 7000 years ≈ 7000 * 365.25 days 7000 * 365.25 = 2,556,750 days 1 day = 24 hours → 2,556,750 * 24 = 61,362,000 hours 1 hour = 60 minutes → 61,362,000 * 60 = 3,681,720,000 minutes Calculate the births per minute: Total births = 50,000,000,000 births Total minutes = 3,681,720,000 minutes Births per minute = 50,000,000,000 / 3,681,720,000 Births per minute ≈ 13.58 So, heavenly mother, if there's only one, has had to give birth to 13.58 spirit children per minute if they've been having relations and making babies for 7 thousand years. But if it's less than 7000 years ago that they started, then the per minute rate is even higher. So, heavenly mother, if there's only one, has done nothing but carry spirit children to term. Does that make any sense whatsover? A Mormon elder told me that all my questions are answered in the BOM. Not. The whole thing is utter nonesense.

[@HannahMitchell-Art]

Wow thanks for the maths!

[@kristinrichmond8185]

So you believe that they are “having relations and making babies” in the same way we procreate on earth?

[@MM-jf1me]

​@@kristinrichmond8185 That's the point of celestial marriage.

[@annwood6812]

@@RFloraPark If time is different for God he can good and well let his ONE wife give birth once every billion years. There's no rush. I'd be willing to do that if I get to help create worlds.

[@ThetiredoneWhoshouldnapbutcant]

​@kristinrichmond8185 why else would they want so many wives? I mean thinking of other ways just makes me think of test tube babies made without wombs.

[@michelep.7249]

I never liked the teaching of polygamy. I used to think heaven would be great, though, and was anticipating when I could go back to heaven. I discovered mantra meditation from the book Meditation for Dummies close to the age of 30. I practiced mantra meditation with a positive mantra that contradicted my negative thinking and would change my mantra every week. I was so much happier after practicing mantra meditation for 18 months that I wanted to live on this earth and had no wish to go to heaven as I didn't think I would be much happier than I am on this earth. Even 25 years later, I am still happier on the days I practice mantra meditation.

[@sjjsc92661]

The doctrine of eternal polygamy is an insult to God. Apparently he can't fix the disporportion of men vs women.

[@anonanon1982]

Excellent! Never heard that before. (Edited to say: for reals, no sarcasm 🙂)

[@Bunchoeves]

Right? And the cults that insist you have to have 3 wives to go to highest celestial heaven? That means you have to get rid of 2/3 of the men since they're excess.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@Bunchoeves quiet braindead.

[@KateeAngel]

Also what about people who are aromantic like me. Some people are meant to be single! Any religion that doesn't accept that fact is a red flag

[@PatriciaNoel-qp2ff]

I have no desire for a planet to create. Sounds like the opposite of heaven. So much responsibility! So little peace too. My idea of heaven is peace, calm, rest, no anxiety and generally just hanging out with the fam. ❤

[@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus]

I think it would be really cool, like the game Spore but infinitely better. Unfortunately I am female and therefore not considered an actual person by any major religion.

[@sonjawright518]

I’ve always been against the idea of polygamy, even as a youth when they started teaching about it in young women’s. Then in relief society and Sunday school when they really delved into it and I fully understood what it meant I became more vocal about it. The idea of sharing a husband and being eternally pregnant doesn’t seem like anything I want to do. Good thing my husband passed away years ago a never Mormon and although his work has been done we have never been sealed and I don’t want to be sealed to him. And at this stage in my life I no longer believe in the Mormon concept of heaven. I believe in what Jesus said, there will be no marriage, we will all be like angels and there is only heaven and hell.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

The notion that there will not be marriage in the afterlife is the orthodoxy entry into the competition of what the afterlife would be like, presented by Jesus. My entry into the competition is that there is a place different from the celestial kingdom where marriage is performed and that it is performed in a manner that unifies the those who are married in a literal sense, causing them to become one in the flesh. And those who go there willingly because they have accepted my entry into the competition if I were to win. I called the place sparkle time, where there is no more darkness, and everything sparkles with light to even space itself as sparkling like diamonds. And those who go there with their equal and opposite companions unify physically as one multiheaded percentage. After they are exhausted from the state of sparkle time, they can come back to the state on earth as separate individual persons.

[@sonjawright518]

@@TheDragonStratagem that’s a rather odd version of Heaven that there would be a competition for marriage. You need to study Mark 12:18-27. Jesus lays it out pretty straight there is no marriage in heaven.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

@@sonjawright518 According to my entry into the competition about the afterlife, I propose Heaven is all-encompassing in every place. To be in heaven is to be within the Holy Spirit. Who is the Holy Ghost? Who is the infinite, immense spirit called the whole infinite great host? According to my entry into the competition about what the afterlife is like, the Holy Ghost is called the whole infinite great host, and we are all permanently within her because she has a boundlessness to her nature that we cannot ever leave her. To be in the Holy Spirit is to be in heaven. According to my entry in the competition about the afterlife, only Satan is cast out of the Holy Spirit or out of reality, out of heavenly Mother, or out of KOLOB. We could visit ideal and unideal places within heaven because, I think, we are moving throughout heaven like gears in the cogs of the Holy Spirit.

[@jordanjoestar-turniptruck]

Nemo, I think something you should have also brought up is that women must cancel their sealing if they wish to remarry in the temple after her husband dies or gets divorced. There is no such requirement for men, who can basically collect sealings.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

Quiet turnip.

[@jordanjoestar-turniptruck]

@WatchingwaitingG2D nah lol

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@jordanjoestar-turniptruck quiet nitwit

[@moanahopkins713]

Yeah, that's crap. misogyny, and controlling. And when my sister applied for a temple divorce from her cheating, abusive husband she was told that it wouldn't be granted until she was ready to marry again. . WTF?

[@jordanjoestar-turniptruck]

@moanahopkins713 sadly im not surprised. And now men have the option to break the seal now if they want..so they have all the rights and none of the few responsibilities they used to have. It was a slightly unusual shelf-breaking item for my mom.

[@melissamarsh2219]

Stephen Fry was in Salt Lake City as part of a tour group and he was told about Mormon heaven how you are reunited with your family forever. He asked what happened if you are good.

[@hma237]

That's great!!

[@whitesalamander]

The more one dissects Mormonism the more bat shit crazy it gets🤣

[@ali1942]

Yep.

[@TE-wf4li]

The very 1st verse of 132 screams terrible things for women. Here it claims that David and others were "justified" in having not only many wives, but also concubines. So let me as you this, who decides which women are concubines and what eternal purpose do they have? And on a secondary note, why is this justified in D&C, but not in the Book of Mormon in Jacob 2? SO many contradictions and terrible news for women in this church. I'm so glad that my eyes have been opened and am now free of it. The celestial heaven in the LDS church would be my personal hell.

[@ChunkyLover1983]

Thank you for another great video. What you are doing is important!

[@TheDragonStratagem]

I agree I think perhaps this video is underestimated even when we say it is a tremendously important video.

[@reanimating.annabel]

Thank you! This was extremely informative. I was not indoctrinated into any faith but found myself leaning towards nature worship with many Christian values. I have always been curious about the Mormon faith and how the women inside it actually feel. Thank you very much for helping me learn!

[@SchwarzesSchaefle]

Fun fact: there is a branch of Hinduism called Gaudiya Vaishnavism, of which the Hare Krishnas (ISKCON) are a subgroup. They also believe in a multi-tier system of heavens and hells, the highest heaven of which is called Goloka. This is a replica of the town of Vrindavan in India, but it's eternal and everyone who goes there spends eternity serving Krishna in different ways. So far so relatively normal, these beliefs are also found among other Vaishnava groups. Now where Gaudiyas go one step further, is that they believe each of us has a special identity / form there, usually and preferentially that of a young cowherd girl (gopi) ranging from age 11-13, as that is "the sweetest age". These are friends of Radha, Krishna's lover. So there is an elaborate spiritual practise one does to develop that persona and become one's true self, i.e. a cowherd girl. Okay, a bit eccentric but nothing harmful he.... well, the highest form of cowherd girl in Goloka is called a manjari. What is so great about being a manjari? You (still aged 11-13) get to arrange the "erotic pastimes" of Radha and Krishna and according to some theologians, you even get to watch, something nobody else gets to do! Tldr,: There are also very unique ideas about heaven and what one does there in some forms of Hinduism, so Mormons aren't the only ones with questionable heavens.

[@shr19964]

0:45 Did he mean tiers within those tiers of the Celestial Kingdom, or TEARS within those tiers? Or both. ;-)

[@HannahMitchell-Art]

Look up Zelph on the Shelf’s song about this 😂

[@sandaroocompilations5182]

The idea of eternal polygamy always bothered me as a member. No woman wants that so you have to block the idea from your mind in order to be okay as a Mormon.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

I believe that the winning entry into the competition about what the afterlife will be like would be the one that is most respectful to everyone and to the Holy Ghost, who is the heavenly mother, reality herself, and who is named KOLOB. Therefore, everyone will be welcome into the winning entrance afterlife and would be able to ultimately obtain the greatest resources in the winning into the competition about the afterlife.

[@goodshepard00]

I am looking forward to your video.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

The video was very good

[@maryannecomment3302]

It is so complicated that I do not understand ´Mormon Heaven´ and I do not believe it exists. Men wrote these bibles for themselves and for political reasons. Nothing is true. Even the ancient stories are legends from the past and can have been adjusted for political reasons. I was brought up in the Roman Catholic Church. But when I was 12 I already understood that the bible was written by men for men. I like the fact that people in these religious movements try to be good to others, but I do not believe anything that is written down in all of these books.

[@verachristensen9128]

I was always told that when I got to the Celestial Kingdom, I'd suddenly want all this.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

According to Joseph Smith, the same spirit that we have in this life is the same spirit we will have in the next life, referring to what we want. Therefore, according to Joseph Smith, the idea that your tastes and opinions will change miraculously to conform to seemingly alien and uncomfortable scenarios does not comply with the concept that we do not deviate from our character, which is stored in our spirit in this life and the same spirit, with the same character in it in the afterlife.

[@verachristensen9128]

Good come back! ​@TheDragonStratagem

[@TheDragonStratagem]

@@verachristensen9128 TY

[@hbeachley]

Bwahahaha. Yep. That’s exactly why I got out. This is too much work and no fun now. I’m not doing this forever. I’d prefer “outer darkness.”

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

The Celestial Kingdom does sound like hell for women, I would have to turn my heart and my brain off in order to feel differently.

[@KipChronis]

I've always hated this idea of our minds "being expanded" to accept stuff we just cannot feel comfortable with. Same with the whole "perfected bodies" junk. Everyone in the church would always view those with disabilities as weirdly inferior and/or infantile. Not to mention that it sounds like pure torture for any trans person to be forced into accepting a body that doesn't truly represent them.

[@filamhalohalo]

Thank you, Nemo! Love that you didn’t mansplain🎉

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Run Susan Bednar RUN!¡!!!

[@nathanjarvis749]

It breaks my heart that my mother believes she wants this kind of “heaven”

[@stinkuspinkus1649]

Dang, these are som great points

[@_teddy-syndrome_5097]

Watching this after my LDS mom told me I was going to hell

[@boutiquebitcoin809]

In bible Jesus says no one is married in heaven mormon bible ripped off bible and rewrote it 😂😂😂

[@777denmark]

The thought of having to share my husband in the after life used to stress me out! I did what I could to always stay fit and be the best wife possible so that my husband wouldn’t want anyone else when we got to heaven. Only to have my husband leave me after 36 years to marry a man. 🥴

[@CarolynAitken-yp2rq]

You’re not kidding??

[@777denmark]

@@CarolynAitken-yp2rqI wish I was. He knew he was leaving so he drained our life’s savings. He got away with it because he did it before he left and then hid the money. It was and has been an absolute nightmare!

[@TalpaTulpa]

@@777denmarkhonestly I’d understand if you hated gay people after that /j

[@doloressims5677]

Ridiculousness like this is part of why I'm an athiest.

[@TheYellowRoseOfTexas]

No thank you! I remember being so disappointed when I learned that Mormon heaven was not a place of relaxation, happiness and beauty, but all the crap you addressed in this great video, to add to the awfulness, we're told it's also expected we continue preaching to those in spirit prison! Ew!! I hated missionary work here and I know I would hate it there too.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

Thank you for your opinion. I believe that camaraderie with other competition entrants into the competition about what the afterlife could be is one of the defining characteristics of the winner of the competition of what the afterlife could be. I believe that every religion and every person individually has an entry into this competition. The only difference between someone who realizes that they’re entering a competition to determine what the afterlife might be like and those who are always their opinion is that they understand that we should use sportsmanship and camaraderie when we correspond with others who have entered this competition. The Holy Ghost, a.k.a. reality, a.k.a. heavenly mother, a.k.a. KOLOB, will respect our camaraderie and politeness to one another and her because she is reality. Therefore, she is everyone and everything, so being cordial and friendly to everyone in this competition is like being polite to her as she judges the competition to determine what she will be in the afterlife. She being reality herself, would only guarantee the authenticity of an entry into the competition based upon how polite the person is to everyone, including the Holy Ghost herself.

[@CJJonesLO]

This particular teaching from the LDS organization is one that truly surprised me when I first heard it. Genesis 3:16 shows that a man ruling over his wife is part of her punishment along with greatly increased pain in childbirth. This curse/punishment does not follow you into eternity therefore it is safe to conclude that women will not be subject to their husbands ruling over them in eternity. Matthew 22: 22-33 Jesus explains this very thing to the Pharisees. Similar to how the serpent twisted Gods word when he deceived Eve, Smith has corrupted Gods word as well for his own benefit and benefit of his loyal male followers. This deception along with many others has sadly been carried on down the generations by ignorant and naive men who have exchanged the truth of God for a lie (Romans 1:25). (“For [you seem willing to allow it] if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted. You tolerate all this beautifully [welcoming the deception].” ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭11‬:‭4‬)Take heart, there is one God (not the god preached by the LDS) and the eternity that He has in store for those that believe in Him (John 3:16) is more amazing and wonderful than you can possibly imagine. (Revelations 21:4) “and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be death; there will no longer be sorrow and anguish, or crying, or pain; for the former order of things has passed away.” ‭‭

[@SevenLlamas]

Blinded by the traditions of their fathers

[@marionbartley214]

Hello Nemo, after really hearing the truth about the Mormon church. On so many issues, listening to your show and Mormon stories. Is why along with making other decisions. I left the mormon church over 7 years ago. After being a member for over 25 years. My husband and I at the time were never married in the temple. He never joined the church. I was married to him for 11 years prior to joining the mormon Church. So after learning all of these things now. And being divorced after 30 years of marriage. My husband's choice. I'm glad I will not be sealed to my ex-husband in the eternities. When it comes to Mormon beliefs. I do believe that heavenly Father is a fair true loving God. And he will give me a partner in eternity. A man who will want me as much as I will want him. And I don't believe I'm going to have to share him with other women !!!...

[@TheDragonStratagem]

I believe that companions in the afterlife are equal and opposite to each other . the companions in the afterlife are equal opposite to each other. They also have equal and opposite choice as the hell they are companionship with function.

[@Nunya45573]

Tears within tears

[@krismurphy7711]

1/3 of Spirit Kids kicked out and DAMNED FOR ETERNITY

[@TalpaTulpa]

Actually 1/1000 avoid getting damned for eternity

[@krismurphy7711]

@@TalpaTulpa HELL OF A PLAN!!!! So efficient!!!! So effective!!!!

[@pheonixguy33maneha99]

Lmao the titles are getting more bold. The church shouldn't have pissed off Nemo! 😂😂😂😂

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

I’m not angry, I’m just disappointed 😂

[@brunoandsofie]

Mind blown by the point about the 50/50 split between men and women! Wapow! And let’s not forget our intersex, non-binary, and gender-fluid siblings, whom the LDS Church completely disregards. But even if we accept the strict gender binary the Church insists on, Nemo’s point exposes a major contradiction. If celestial marriage requires all men to be polygamists (per early church leaders), but only allows men to have multiple wives-not the other way around-then basic math demands same-sex partnerships to balance the numbers. Otherwise, where are all these extra women supposed to come from? And let’s be real-Mormon heaven is hell for women. They’re eternally relegated to being one of many wives, treated as rewards for righteous men, and given no say in the matter. Their entire eternal existence is centered around pumping out spirit babies to populate their husband’s planets, with no rest, no personal ambition, and no identity beyond their role as a celestial incubator. That’s not celestial glory. That’s an eternal MLM scheme where men at the top reap all the rewards. I also absolutely loved hearing from all the different women featured in this discussion. Their experiences and voices are so important, because this is their reality to speak up about, and it’s a reality that men need to quietly listen to without judgment. Men have no skin in the game-they’re not the ones who would be eternally trapped in this system of submission and endless childbearing.

[@geemai435]

Thank you for revealing this. This shows how different Mormon is from the Bible i read, the ir heaven is not the heaven Jesus preached, and it centers around subjugation of women like Islam. I am forever for the Holy bible that says both men and women are equal before God and He shows no favoritism. Where there is no marriage in heaven becoz we all become children of God, with new names and peaceful lives. That christ whi died and rose again on the third day, and is sitted on the right hand of the father, who gave us Holy Spirit as a guide and helper. That Jesus who preached repentance and holiness, this is who i follow.

[@kaydensedona]

So what the heck is all this menopause crap about?!?! God's idea of a vacation before you REALLY get started?! The founders and co-conspirators after them did not even stop to think any of this stupidity sounded.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

We can divorce ourselves from the idea of a bound reality in the afterlife. Any conditions we meet in this life are according to the concept of a continuum, which does not correspond to the afterlife. This is chiefly why God knows every possible state the afterlife can obtain. Still, he does not choose for reality which state she will be in according to her desire, according to the entries in the competition about what the afterlife might be. You can think of this life as the core of a high-power electric line. And the afterlife is like the magnetic field rounding the electric line. The continuum is the electric current in the electric line. The magnetic field, perpendicular to this current, also surrounds the current to a non-continuous afterlife existence. Therefore, any continuum disruption by superimposing the afterlife would disrupt the current, and the power flow would be interrupted. Thus, the very power the afterlife relies on for it to function would be cut off; therefore, all those who went to such an afterlife would eventually dissolve into the ether. Thus, there must be a continuation of this existence forever and ever and ever and ever without déjà vu so that the powering of the afterlife may continue and are ideas of what the afterlife might be also continue the afterlife, even after the winner of the competition observes the afterlife.

[@sjm9876]

It’s crazy to me how different religions have such vastly different ideas of what the afterlife will be like. Something I do find noteworthy are the similarities between the Mormon and Muslim visions of paradise

[@C12341]

Muhammed also said like Joseph Smith did that he was threatened by an angel if he didn't do certain things. Maybe the same force behind Islam created Mormonism. If reincarnation is a thing, maybe he was the same guy. Kind of wild but who knows.

[@fyxation]

It is rather interesting how Mormons (as well as a ton of other religions and cults) really hard sell all the rewards of their specific paradise as the point of following/practicing/believing, yet the rewards are mainly a paradise for men. Almost like they were created by a man (Joseph Smith) and what he thinks heaven would be. There are almost no selling points for women. You'd think a proper cult leader would want to entice all genders with a promise of the paradise of their dreams.

[@marionbartley214]

Well now that i have left the morman church over 7 years ago now. I believe that celestial Kingdom is so different, It's a place where families, friends and relatives will all be together. Who are worthy to be there simply for the fact that they are good people. I do believe that Heavenly Father will decide the outcome. Of people who were not in good standing by their actions they lived in this life.Who have not repented and changed their actions for the better.

[@TheDragonStratagem]

I believe that the improvement of the self is an infinite process that takes place over infinite lifetime so that we can be infinitely improved to ultimately become realities. An example of reality is the Holy Ghost a.k.a. heavenly mother a.k.a. KOLOB. Where Holy Ghost means whole infinite, great host or an infinitely large spirit that encompasses all matter, including spiritual matter.

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

Brigham has caused so much harm.... what nonesense, and too many people believe it without questioning.

[@annwood6812]

It was Joseph.

[@richardheath1483]

I think you mean Joseph

[@Bunchoeves]

Joseph started it and Brigham continued it.

[@Witchy_Cheree1982]

Excellent video.

[@my2cworth4U]

They should have kept you as their friend Nemo. (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer) ❤️

[@kiddfaith4397]

Nothing says you’ve reached the glorious reward of “heaven” like being gifted eternal longing, loss, and unending pain until they become so used to it they accept that suffering is their due. Wait… Yeah. Thought I recognized some. Most cultures equate that kind of “reward” with the bad place you go after living a sinful, disobedient and/or evil life. Definitely agree; that sounds like hell.

[@jameskurocik6352]

In the celestial kingdom, you have to do Tuesday game night with David A Bednar. Him mansplaining charades.... Oh lord, please send me to hell!

[@TheDragonStratagem]

I think that the afterlife should be described by people that enter a competition so that we get the best possible afterlife. I also want to enter the competition and it isn’t about an infinite experience as a human, but as experiencing various degrees of reality until we become an entire reality ourselves.

[@kyleepratt]

4:16 oh good, my great great great grandpa and great great great great uncle got in on the action here. Thanks for you exist input Orson and Parley! /s

[@rustynails8756]

I am not LDS but have many family members who are. I have to admit the mormon "heaven" sounds awful. It amazes me how they came up with their convept of heaven as it seems very contrary to Scripture and is fixated on sex. Whereas in the gospels we are told that we will no longer be given in marriage and.be like the angels who don't marry. Only a human man could ever think a woman would want to attain celestial pregnancy. Oy vey!

[@C12341]

It's similar to Jannah in Islam. Although the idea of s ex slaves for eternity (houris) seems even more dystopian. I'd elaborate but it's so, so, so gross. Some of the islamic scholars think the 72 virgins come from the populations of Jewish and Christian women in hell and being a s ex slave is their punishment. What is the poor wife (or up to four wives) supposed to do? At least they don't have to procreate, but for the man it's an eternal drunk party.

[@taraneal-vonderhaar599]

I have felt this way my entire life. I can remember thinking as a kid the middle kingdom seemed just fine to me. I don't need a world to rule. I don't want it , and after being married for almost 2o years, I'm not sure I even want a husband . My whole family is still very into the church, so I guess I will be the one they will miss. I struggle with the truthfulness of it all, but the one thing I do know is how much I don't want it to be true. This has been a nagging feeling in my heart forever!

[@loriellerecord7747]

ok, Samantha Shelly's clip reminded me of Cunk on Earth! I loved the snark! :D

[@Bunchoeves]

I don't want that to happen to me!!! 😮

[@molokaidragon]

that was one of the reasons why i stopped going to church.

[@rachelhansen2417]

I never connected the dots about how incestuous the whole god/mary thing was…

[@Wishfull171]

My grandparents have been mormon since the 70s and my grandpa is pretty high in their state's ranking. It is crazy how much the beliefs they preached when the religion began are very private or changed. I met some my age who say they don't believe you can ever become a God yourself and that's fake... My grandma talked to me about it via reaching heaven's highest level regularly. I'm shocked that they truly believe it or they must be trained well to not discuss certain topics to the point of denying or lying about what they believe. Either would be a massive red flag to me in any religion but I guess they think a God expecting you to lie or be secretive of their teachings is normal...

[@krismurphy7711]

On his 70th birthday, LDS Prophet Wilford Woodruff was the recipient of being sealed to 154 deceased women and girls. Better than Islam!!!!!!

[@leanordials8008]

That's some sick {r@p!

[@krismurphy7711]

@@leanordials8008. Notice how The Church never discusses it???

[@Nightbloom101]

What do you mean 'better then islam' this is like, a thousand times worse. And people take polygamy in islam out of context... it's only in cases of war/depopulation, not for pleasure.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@Nightbloom101 I was making a joke about Woodruff getting MORE brides in the Hereafter than Radical Muslims.... only 77 for them.