Neon Sign Troubleshooting

troubleshooting a free neon sign from the side of the road.
4k60 HDR

[@Bagooda]

Awesome! Free is the best. Not a beer guy but love the neon.

[@buckadillafilms]

Great video, very informative! Thank you for all the info. Just picked up one of the "FREE SMELLS" neon signs from Jimmy Johns for free the other day and found your channel as well. We have the same watch lol

[@NeonPreservation]

nice score, nothing beats free! enjoy your new neon sign! :)

[@kurtbarlow9402]

Awesome video. I'm planning on having a 3/8ths scale replica of a movie neon made. Currently I'm still trying to recreate the original 1960 studio blueprint from a blurry screenshot. I've worked out the majority of the measurements, the only major question I have is the color of the sign body, I know the basic neon colors used. The information I've gained from video such as yours will help immensely when im finally ready to have it built. I've learned that 3/8ths scale is the smallest I can go due to neon tube sizes, and that I probably don't want a neon that buzzes loudly like in the film. Anyway, thanks again. Cheers

[@christopherrasmussen8718]

Keep them going. Been bending glass (neon) 40 years, You can strip the paint (with paint stripper) and plastic based spray paint to coat it. Big pain but I been doing it for years,

[@NeonPreservation]

nice, thanks for the tip! i might strip & repaint those tubes sometime; or if i feel really industrious, i might remake them with classic glass! haha.

[@black94ta]

always good to see new content David!

[@drn0986]

What's the deal with the custom neon art piece in the background @4:11 could you make a quick vid about it sometime?

[@NeonPreservation]

its some scrap glass i threw together and processed... but yeah ill show some more detail on it

[@NeonPreservation]

for anyone interested, here is the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6Ovap1sq8lrb9k

[@NeonSignStuff]

Oh man I was scared you would break off an electrode when pulling those boots off. Been there...... Great clip, very entertaining

[@NeonPreservation]

i was just waiting to hear a snap! next time i think i'll warm them first 😆

[@gmeardi]

Thanks for the video! I recently bought a Dad's Garage neon sign, beautiful, but just after a couple of months it started failing (a flash on turning on, then off). Initially after some tries it stayed ON, but now... cannot switch on anymore. I was afraid of a bad tube, but... now I think that 99% is a bad transformer, to be replaced in warranty. I'd rather prefer changing the transformer 'cos... sending back the whole big sign is a bit of a mess... I'll buy on amazon a cheap coil tester to be 100% sure... Thanks again

[@NeonPreservation]

be careful and good luck!

[@gmeardi]

@@NeonPreservation yep... when I read thousands of volts... obviously this has to be taken with care :)

[@hariranormal5584]

If you don't mind more questions, in your newest video about the art thing how do you have your own colors in the tube? Sure, paint is a cheap way to do so, but are there specific gases which give out specific colors? or how does that work

[@NeonPreservation]

there are several factors that contribute to the color of light emitted from the tube: 1) the fill gas. in neon signs its usually either Neon (glows orangish/red) or Argon & Mercury (glows blue). other gasses have different colors & characteristics but are usually only used in special-effect/art tubes. 2) the powdered phosphor. it coats the inside of some tubes and glows a particular color (the fill gas contributes as well). e.g., Blue phosphor will glow blue when the tube is filled Ar/Hg, but will glow Pink when filled with Neon. 3) the glass color. in this video i showed an example of red & yellow glass tubes, but there a large variety of colored glass tubes available. they are made in Italy and are more expensive than regular clear/coated glass. a cheap (read: crappy) way to avoid the cost is to just paint the tube. painted glass isn't as vibrant as colored glass, and obviously, the paint doesn't last and peels off eventually, making the sign look stupid.

[@hariranormal5584]

​@@NeonPreservation Aha! Thanks for the info, all this should be written down in a site. Honestly, these things look so beautiful... I don't even recall when is the last time I actually saw it, it brings weird eerie memories however, heh. Usually Colorful Gaseous Tube lights (dang! I came up with my own name c: ) can be put in the era of 2000's to 2005 ish, I think I remember seeing some "Leminal space" videos with neon on them, they just give that ambiance out, could just be that it's old and no one uses them, hence a memory

[@farmsteadfun5227]

Awesome videos!! I’ve been trying to get into neon for a while but can’t seems to find the equipment needed. Any tips for locating equipment?? Thanks for your help!!

[@NeonPreservation]

indeed, finding used equipment can be challenging... keep an eye on craigslist, ebay, and FB marketplace, you never know when something might pop up. rarely, you also might find an auction house liquidating a sign shop. in the mean time, you could read through some informational/instructional books to familiarize yourself with the necessary equipment, what it's called, and how it works. Neon Techniques, Neon Superguide, and Neon: The Next Generation are all excellent sources of information. if you can't find a "whole setup bundle," buying just the torches first is a good way to "get your feet wet" and see if you like it, while saving the expenses of all the processing equipment until later. you should be able to find a local(ish) sign shop that can process your pre-made tubes if you dont have a processing setup initially. good luck!

[@sweetd711]

Same here. Hard to find the equipment and even harder to find someone to teach you. Love your videos. Thanks for making them.

[@troia2]

Awesome! I just picked up this exact sign but one of the tubes is broken. Is it worth it to find someone local to repair or not.

[@NeonPreservation]

well, it depends on what its worth to you and what you have in it already. a neon bender would be able to tell you exactly how much they would charge for a replacement tube (most benders won't repair the Argon/Mercury filled tubes that this sign has); i would expect to spend maybe $100-$150 or so, depending on the complexity of the unit. these signs were mass produced so they aren't particularly rare. while that doesn't make them worth a whole lot, it does increase the odds that you might find someone parting out another broken sign. obviously, it would be best if they are within driving distance since shipping neon tubes is risky.

[@joshbrekke6374]

Very nice video, sweet score! Where can I find one of those testing spark coil tools to test the neon sign I was given today. Or can I make one? Please and thank you.

[@NeonPreservation]

i made a video about the different tools you can use to test neon tubes! check it out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHqsl42LYtCWedE

[@NeonPreservation]

i made a video about the different tools you can use to test neon tubes! check it out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHqsl42LYtCWedE

[@drn0986]

I use a hair dryer to soften up end caps.

[@NeonPreservation]

after i finally got them off i thought, "man, that would've been a lot easier if i had just used my heat gun..." 🤣

[@drn0986]

@@NeonPreservation I've seen heat guns crack electrodes if the shop is cool

[@NeonPreservation]

indeed! slow, gentle warming on the lowest setting to avoid stress fracturing of the pinch seal or nearby welds.

[@1unaffiliated1]

I have a Icehouse Neon sign that I had for years. I moved and noticed the ICEHOUSE tube is broken.

[@NeonPreservation]

sorry to hear that! you could try checking FB marketplace or Craigslist to see if anyone locally is parting out a similar sign, or try your luck on ebay (shipping neon is difficult to do properly). alternatively, you could contact your local sign shop/neon bender to get a quote from them. depending on the type of tube, it may be possible to repair the break; otherwise they would just make a replacement.

[@markoldani4433]

If wire nuts are not rated, what should you use as a permanent connection?

[@NeonPreservation]

the wires should be twisted together and covered with a properly rated boot/cap that is specifically designed for use with neon. of course, always follow your local electrical codes.

[@jbrettcarver]

I recently picked up a similar light. How do you know the switch wasn’t bad and the transformer is working? The pull string was missing on mine. Do I need a specific kind of pull switch or can I use something from Lowe’s made for a ceiling fan.

[@NeonPreservation]

good question! TL;DR-on this transformer it's probably just way easier just to replace the whole thing. but..... transformers that are "dead" or "bad" could possibly still be working, but something may have shorted internally. however, during manufacture, the internal components are potted in tar or epoxy, so troubleshooting anything inside the transformer case ranges from extremely difficult & time consuming to practically impossible. that said, i was wondering the same thing as you, so i opened mine up to see if i could replace just the switch. from what i could tell, the switch input goes to a circuit board that provides the ground fault protection as well as cycling the dim/off/bright/off. i guessed that something on the circuit board had died, so as an experiment i depotted the whole thing, removed the circuit board, and wired the switch directly to the primary coil. the transformer did work after that. i dont remember if i used a new switch or if i kept the original one. i put it back in the metal box without the potting tar and riveted the box closed. the sign now works with the original transformer, but it no longer has the dim feature or ground fault protection. was the circuit board really bad, or had internal arcing caused carbon traces through the tar that was shorting out the windings and removing the tar solved the problem? i dont know. would i ever do it again? debatable. it took HOURS, and it was a horrible, disgusting mess. also, one wrong move and a wire in the transformer windings gets broken and all the work up to that point is a waste. i was honestly amazed when the transformer actually buzzed to life after the whole ordeal. also, old transformers can contain PCBs, which are carcinogenic. i think this one was *probably* new enough to be PCB-free. if you want to see what is involved in just removing a transformer from the case, (not trying to rehab the old transformer), check out this video from NeonSignStuff: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6Owo5Roqrpnj8k

[@jbrettcarver]

@@NeonPreservation thanks for the reply! When I opened mine up the switch was easily accessible. It looks just like a ceiling fan pull switch with 3 wires. I tried swapping it out with one from Lowe’s and the light came on but it just had the faintest glow.

[@NeonPreservation]

ah yes, i thought i remembered the switch having 3 wires... but its been over 2 years since i did that experiment and i couldn't remember for sure, so i just omitted that particular detail to avoid providing false information. also, i just found a picture in my photo library with notes confirming that i replaced the switch with a simpler 2-wire on/off pull chain switch. the original one was all gross and tarry anyway. i even load-tested the core-and-coil guts of the transformer and it was outputting the correct amount of current, so that worked just fine. since your new switch didnt fix the issue, id be willing to bet that circuit board is the culprit. i dont really know much about electronic circuitry & components, so i just got rid of it all together. someone more intelligent than i could probably have replaced whatever failed component on the (gross) circuit board, but eh, at least i got it working again.

[@stoneschanify]

And just out of curiosity ... i always wondered why regular civilians use military time? Like what purpose does it serve vs standard?

[@NeonPreservation]

who said i was a regular civilian? maybe im a secret covert ops agent! lol 😆 military time is a more succinct way of displaying time. it can be quite useful if you live in a location where seasons cause extreme shifts in the amount of daylight, if you do shift work and sleep weird hours, if you have an occupation that requires timestamping and operates 24/7, etc.

[@joeoliver9223]

I have a neon sign that needed a transformer, my sign is old and I was unable to fine a match for the transformer. I reached out to Neon preservation providing my transformer specs asking if I could purchase one from them. They do not sell transformers but I was provided with a EBay link for a transformer that will work with my sign. I mean how nice was that???? Thanks

[@NeonPreservation]

glad i could help! good luck and let me know if you have any more questions. cheers!

[@joeoliver9223]

@@NeonPreservation You are the man

[@cotaz67]

Got a monster sign for free but one tube doesn’t turn on the rest will turn on for a second then turn off just barely found this video was wondering if you have a video or info on a way to repair or even just bypass that one tube so at least the rest light up.

[@NeonPreservation]

yes, if a tube is causing issues you can bypass it. neon is wired in series so all you would need to do is connect a wire from one side of the bad tube to the other. you need to use high voltage wiring (GTO) and be sure it is unplugged before you start messing with it; high voltage can be dangerous.

[@sideburn]

I have an old OPEN sign and the transformer has gone out. It says it is 4.5-0-4.5 kv 30ma. I tried a 3kv 30ma I found on Amazon and the sign is partially lighting up and not as bright so I’ve ordered a 5kv 30ma. Do you think that will solve the issue and will it be ok at 5kv?

[@NeonPreservation]

assuming there are no tube issues, then yes, a 5kv transformer *should* be able to run the sign, no problem. i imagine you will be buying an electronic transformer? electronic transformers are self-regulating, so it will adjust the output to whatever the sign requires.

[@sideburn]

@@NeonPreservation ahhh it does say electronic. That explains why the first one I got, when I put the wires close it would cut in and out of sparking and I though it was defective!

[@NeonPreservation]

yes, electronic transformers have short-circuit & overload prevention features... typically an electronic transformer will 'try' to light a sign 3 times and if it doesn't sense the correct output/current draw it will go into safety shut down mode which usually requires it to be unplugged and plugged back in (or switched off/on) before it will try again.

[@sideburn]

@@NeonPreservation ahh now it makes sense. Thanks for the info. I assume it’s normal then that the 3kv only lit part of the sign since the original transformer says 4.5kv

[@NeonPreservation]

correct, transformers are selected based on the length of tubing there is to power. a 3kv doesn't have enough 'juice' to run a sign designed for a 4.5kv, but the 5kv should have enough, and an electronic transformer will dial itself down to 4.5kv to match the required output.

[@crystalyonko]

How can I get in touch with you? I have a few questions

[@NeonPreservation]

hello, my email address is in the "About" tab on my channel page: NeonPreservation (at) gmail (dot) com

[@midnightwind8067]

The jarflies (cicadas) in your area sing the same way they do in southern Ohio. They sing differently in central Ohio. The sounds of summers in my youth.

[@NeonPreservation]

i've lived in other places in the country where they sing differently as well; but i too have fond youthful memories of those summers!

[@580banderas]

what would cause a tube to flicker once each time you try to turn it on?

[@NeonPreservation]

sounds like an electronic transformer going into safety shutdown mode. the circuitry detects continuity & resistive load, and if something isn't right it shuts down. the question is, what is it detecting? for example: it could be one of the tubes is broken and the circuit is incomplete, or perhaps a tube is going bad (increased internal resistance), or perhaps the wiring is grounding out somewhere.

[@580banderas]

@@NeonPreservation where would you recommend i start troubleshooting?

[@NeonPreservation]

you could try testing each tube separately by wiring them to the transformer one at a time; that could help you find if a single tube is bad. please note that neon transformers are high voltage and can give a nasty shock, so make sure it is unplugged before working on it, and be mindful of where the wires are when turning it back on to test.

[@580banderas]

@@NeonPreservation this sign has 2 transformers. 😲

[@NeonPreservation]

many larger or animated signs have more than one transformer; if you test the tubes individually, i would use the transformer with the longest leads because it will be easier to reach. unplug the other transformer while you're testing so it doesn't accidentally shock anything. also, it might be a good idea to take a picture of what all the wiring looks like before you unhook it all, for future reference when you're putting it back together

[@rumpoh8039]

like.......... WAY OUT....... MANNNNNNNNNNN.

[@stoneschanify]

The guy lets you take the neon sign worth maybe a few hundred and of course you leave the other stuff. Couldn't you do him a favor and at least take the other stuff for him and trash it? Did you at least email him back to let him know you got it? lol

[@NeonPreservation]

if he wanted the stuff trashed he could've just put them in his large trash bin that was a couple feet away on the driveway; and since the other items were useable i left them for someone else who might find value in them.

[@SubscriptionToLife]

Will a bad transformer only power half the sign or what is wrong with a neon light that has a dead top half lettering but a lit bottom lettering

[@NeonPreservation]

if part of the sign is still lighting it sounds more likely that it is a bad/broken tube

[@SubscriptionToLife]

@@NeonPreservation thanks !