The Real Reason Guillermo Del Toro Left The Hobbit

When Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings Trilogy first came out, it was thought to be a perfect adaptation of the famous book written by J.R.R. Tolkien. When talks of going back and adapting the Hobbit, it seemed director Guillermo Del Toro was a perfect match to bring Middle Earth back to life. But as things turn out, Del Toro would soon leave the project after months of work, and Peter Jackson would step back into the directors chair for the Hobbit Trilogy we know today.
#thehobbit #lordoftherings #nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Nick Murphy

[@mbogucki1]

Somewhere, in the multiverse, there is an Oscar winning 3 hour Hobbit film directed by Guillermo Del Toro with a cameo from Ron Perlman.

[@francesco5594]

would've been cool seeing Perlman as Azog, but most of all seeing Mignola character studies for the monsters

[@HisameArtwork]

and Satoshi Kon never got cancer and lived to make 10 more amazing sci-fi gothic animations over 1.5h each.

[@DeemiGod]

Ron Perlman as Smaug

[@cheif9OO]

Ron Perman would've made a great Beorne I think

[@wanderinglizzy]

And a creature played by Doug Jones.

[@haileybalmer9722]

The way he put it when I saw him live was like this: he had a daughter at home, she was getting older, and they kept trying to tack extra years into the project. He was reluctantly okay with it being two movies, but three was too many. He felt like he was going to miss his daughter’s entire childhood, so he said, one movie. They said three. He said okay, but you’ll be doing it without me. They thought he was bluffing. He told them to call Peter Jackson and apologize, then he went home to spend time with his kid.

[@ericjohnson5912]

Nothing but respect for a choice like that. They can find another director, but your kid can’t just find another dad.

[@starleaf2795]

wow i never heard that before, where'd you hear this?! but that's pretty cool of him to tell the studio(s) to apologize to jackson, i respect him more for standing up to them and i wish jackson could've done the same...

[@varelion]

That's a story for another full movie ... or a trilogy.

[@OpalBLeigh]

It wasn’t their faults ❤ the studio was being ridiculous! They are both exceptionally talented directors and either would have made a wonderful movie if they had been allowed to:) (at most 2, not 3 for the love of God.)

[@NormanTiner]

And this is why Del Toro is such an amazing artist. He does not compromise his heart. Very few people in Hollywood have their priorities straight, but the ones who do stand out. David Lynch is another standout, and his greatest film regret is the one where he gave up final cut, Dune.

[@djinconroe]

"The new trilogy would be prepared in just 3 months..." It really, really showed.

[@rafaelc.c.]

Yeah, underneath there are three really great films (or two, whatever). But they're covered a bit too much by a cape of wrong studio decisions both in production and writing. I don't think Del Toro would have made them better than Jackson, had he been given enough time for preparation and liberty, of course, but it would have been interesting to see Del Toro's version. He's also a very good director.

[@isleohagger5455]

Jackson should've stood up to them and asked for the proper time with del Toro. This was obviously going to be huge and Jackson already in the desired seat missed a one-in-a-million opportunity to advance his career, knowing it wasn't right. Very stupid.

[@ZombieMorning]

@@isleohagger5455 I guess the studio would removed them and hired a new director. sometimes studios rush production because the banks are after them. or taxes.

[@isleohagger5455]

@@ZombieMorning They would look even worse with a product, unless they could find a better director. A good bet would've either been to cancel, or better give into the director/producer through advocation of funds, but not advance this gimmick of career death, a short death it will be.

[@bb1111116]

The studio made things even worse than what the video said. Jackson had only 3 months to prepare TWO Hobbit movies. Then in the middle of production, the studio demanded that Peter make 3 Hobbit films!! Jackson had zero lead time to create the ending of the Desolation of Smaug. He had not script, no story boards, nothing. He just had the actors do reactions shots and made up the fight sequence between the Dwarves and the dragon. It was a nightmare where everyone had to create the story, sets, effects, sound, music with no lead time.

[@StewartFletcher]

Jackson's fluctuating weight makes me so sad. You can see the toll The Hobbit took on him and it's just heartbreaking.

[@chakradarrat8832]

to be fair it was a hell of a mess at the start and he got sick for external reasons too

[@wattsnottaken1]

They nearly killed the man. When PJ is on a passion project like 2005 King Kong and the LOTR Trilogy u can tell he’s enjoying what he’s doing

[@CordeliaWagner]

Obesity is not exactly what is considered as healthy.

[@chakradarrat8832]

@@CordeliaWagner a drastic loss of weight in a short period of time is more worrying

[@mrcritical6751]

You can just see the difference if you compare how he looked BTS of his previous project. On Tintin he seemed super happy, enthusiastic and did silly photoshoots where him and Spielberg dressed up in hats and canes to look like Thompson and Thomson. On The Hobbit he just looks sad and depressed with the only joy from him being his cameo in The Five-ish Doctors reboot where it cuts to him filming the movie and noticing Sylvester McCoy is absent from set

[@originaozz]

I feel a deeper respect for Peter Jackson's now as him taking on the role in such a rush timeline would also save a lot of his crew jobs. Even when the end result wasn't best as it could have been, that still count for something.

[@scoople6]

For real. It's so heart breaking watching the behind the scenes and seeing just how stressed out and a wreck Jackson is the entire time he's working on it. It was clearly a torturous experience.

[@lilfish5124]

Right They make it in this video like he created this mess, when in truth Del Torrokept leaving for other projects and Jackson was brought on to save it.

[@lilfish5124]

Jackson and Phillipa boyens didn't start out writing this. They were brought on and denied the ability to change some non canonical elements like the Legalos/girl elf/dwarf love triangle that he wanted to.

[@bakoyma]

I thought of this too... I imagine (might not be true, just my imagination here) that all those jobs depending on the project was a huge motivator for Jackson/Boyens to continue when they must have seen at least parts of this trilogy was turning into utter crap.

[@dante6985]

Not to mention Billions (with a B) of studio revenue (which means something to shareholders) and a battle between FIVE Studios to produce this thing. No, it's not great, Jackson knows it's not, there's no way it really ever could have been. But Jackson deserves our respect for taking this thing on. Heck, George Lucas had all the time and money in the world to complete his vision of the Star Wars prequels and he only wound up with one good movie for it.

[@maevtr3922]

Del Toro leaving this project, and also by proxy leaving the mountains of madness to work on this, is one of the greatest tragedies in film. We missed out on an amazing series of movies

[@Lasershadow]

Yeah I felt like Del Toro had what it takes to really make the Hobbit movie or movies into something that could've been as close to the same as the original book.

[@lilfish5124]

Del Toro kept leaving for other projects and that is the reason they brought Jackson. they needed help saving it. Jackson wanted to remove the romance between the dwarf and the elf, but was not allowed. Making it sound like he was responsible for this catastrophe is truly innacurate. He did what he could to save it.

[@davidhimmelfahrt3732]

@@lilfish5124 true

[@CordeliaWagner]

Just too much fillers. One long movie would have been better.

[@joshuakarr-BibleMan]

The Hobbit could never be a great series of movies. The entire story fits into about 2 or 3 hours.

[@Borzogo]

I always thought Jackson had lost his touch, it's bittersweet to learn that was not the issue. What a missed opportunity, we lost not only a del Toro version but also a proper Jackson version of The Hobbit.

[@mrcritical6751]

We also potentially lost out on a Jackson version of Prisoners Of The Sun because Jackson got so burnt out and broken by The Hobbit that he couldn’t bring himself to start production on the second Tintin movie

[@chrisvongorstinger2142]

@@mrcritical6751 i thought tintin was a spielberg movie

[@mrcritical6751]

@@chrisvongorstinger2142 it was a joint Spielberg and Jackson collaboration, they had a deal where it would be three movies and directing/producing duties would rotate with each film. Jackson produced the first one whilst Spielberg directed, then Jackson was gonna direct the sequel and Spielberg would produce and vice versa for the third

[@kevinkingmaker7395]

We got a rushed, patched together version of the Hobbit which satisfied the studio's pressing financial needs at the expense of the audience. This trilogy will soon be forgotten.

[@babydemonlab]

It really is a sad tale, just watch the behind the scenes of the hobbit, no one I having fun. Everything is rushed.

[@rileydavidson207]

I think something people also miss is that you can see how it low it brought jackson. He looks physically and mentally drained in a lot of the behind the scenes after he took over. They didn't just ruin 3 movies but they nearly broke a man. His weight loss, they way he holds himself, he look he has on his face and in his eyes. It's really upsetting

[@stRemyMartin]

Youre kidding right? Fuckin joke if you think making tens of millions to stand around a movie set is hard. Yikes

[@Tawadeb]

PJ had no prep time. Very stressful I am glad PJ hot to make it in his own style similar to LotR

[@Tawadeb]

@@teldrah uou know what i think the Hobbit movies are excellent. Very similar to lotr in quality.

[@oneworldfamily]

I do love The Hobbit films. I knew about the pressure PJ and the team were under, and the speed at which they had to make them and, as a big fan, I can accept all that and know that if they were given the time then they could have been as good as LotR.

[@FairbrotherStudios]

​@@teldrah Speak for yourself. The Hobbit movies are fantastic. Not as good as LOTR obviously, but very good. Feel gutted for you that you don't enjoy them.

[@maybecole]

I feel if they had let Peter have the time with pre-production like they did with LOTR, these films would have turned out much different. Shame he was thrown in and put under immense pressure.

[@bakoyma]

Agreed. They would've found the essence of the Hobbit the way they found it for LOTR and they would have made something really, really good. Studios really do shoot the arts right in the face with a shotgun sometimes.

[@bakoyma]

@@Star-yz2rn True that

[@JDoe-gf5oz]

@@Star-yz2rn Their jobs are on the line too. They're not ogres sitting around wondering how they can mess up a movie today. If they don't keep the machine moving and the money flowing the shareholders will revolt.

[@IrishCarney]

The problem is that every single day was burning a huge amount of money. At some point a movie becomes so expensive to make that even huge ticket sales can't make it profitable, like Cleopatra or Waterworld. And The Hobbit trilogy was on track to blow past that and become a studio-wrecking catastrophe like Heaven's Gate, Titan A. E., or Cutthroat Island. This was why Jackson had to shoehorn in the already-filmed lackluster generic action scenes, why he had to rush so desperately to finish as soon as possible.

[@X5J2UY]

I'm not sure those movies would've been THAT much better. The main issue was dividing the book into 3 movies. That was always going to lead to major fillers. The overall cinematic quality would've been better (less CG), but the main issue was the content itself

[@ramshacklerozza]

Honestly, because I’m unsure of what GdT’s version would’ve been like I’ll say this: I would’ve rather waited four more years for the perfected vision of Peter Jackson’s movies. But no, the studios in charge as always are so impatient that they believe that people won’t see movies so highly anticipated in a few more years. They didn’t trust in the ones in charge of making the magic real and the didn’t trust the love the fans had and still have for the source material. Most importantly, they disregarded the love that Tolkien’s heart poured into the books.

[@ForeverDegenerate]

" the studios in charge as always are so impatient that they believe that people won’t see movies so highly anticipated in a few more years." That probably wasn't it. WB had to have known how big this trilogy was going to be for them and that moviegoers would wait. No, this was more of a case, as it mostly is in business, of the investors threatening to pull their money out of the project if they didn't get their completed project on time, damn the quality. Basically, the studio was afraid that if they delayed the movie's release to give Peter Jackson the time he needed to make it right, money would start disappearing as investors began to pull out. And let's be honest, you want "Big Corporate" to do your bidding? All you have to do is threaten their finances. Which is why Investors, by and large, hold the majority power in Corporate Decision Making.

[@bradjensen4927]

Agreed. I think del Toro's vision would have been too bizarre and occult-based for Tolkien's story.

[@l.c.136]

@@ForeverDegenerate Thank you, this is the correct answer.

[@thomaskuzma4360]

you bet your bottom dollar he shoulda stayed. The Hobbit movies broke Peter Jackson, and when we could have had TinTin 2, we are now stuck with a man crushed from the weight of studio executives.

[@mrcritical6751]

It sucks so badly, although I will argue that if Peter has no intention of making Tintin 2 he should stop stringing the fanbase along and just either outright cancel the project or transfer directing duties back to Spielberg

[@NimbusAngelo]

But he went on to do two pretty good documentary films, The Beatles: Get Back, and They Shall Not Grow Old.

[@rocky8838]

I'm still waiting for that Tintin sequel and it's been 11 years since the first one.

[@wokeupinapanic]

Peter Jackson was broken well before this. He hasn’t directed a good film since LotR, and likely never will.

[@lilfish5124]

Del Torro is responsible for the mess, because he was torn between different projects and wasn't focusing on this movie. That's the whole reason they brought Jackson on in the first place...and Jackson and boyens didn't write this from the start. They wanted to remove someone cannonical elements and we're denied.

[@blythebrumleve7035]

The downfall of Hollywood can be explained from pointing to the patience of creating The Lord of the Rings to the urgency of creating The Hobbit to the inexperience of creating Rings of Power.

[@Helmutlozzi]

It's not just inexperience when it comes to the amazon show. Looking into the production you can tell they deliberately slaughtered the source material in order to get out the message.

[@IrishCarney]

@@Helmutlozzi They'd already started in the Hobbit trilogy with the eye-roll inducingly "diversified" Lake Town

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

After years of reflection, the lord of the rings has alot of issues too. Though I do agree with your statement.

[@-Believeinyourself-]

One day it will be widely accepted and well known that almost every institution in America including entertainment and Disney was infiltrated by an extreme group of people looking to radicalize enough people to uproot this society and have a controlled revolution to implement the final workings of what these people call a New World Order

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

@@-Believeinyourself- You have too much faith in people. They are too selfish to pull that off in secret and would sell each other out. Klaus and his cronies are just another group of people pushing an agenda like the thousands of other agendas our there, its no huge conspiracy.

[@captainmacmellon8909]

The fact that this films are still somewhat watchable with actual decent moments showd that there was passion in these films which just makes it even sadder. Toro was the prefect choice for director

[@someinteresting]

A very thorough edit of the three films into just one will do very well.

[@synthdott7954]

@@someinteresting Tolkien Edit does it’s best to fix a majority of the problems if you’re interested in looking for that edit online; I highly recommend it

[@chrisk1180]

3rd film was unwatchable

[@tomvernemusic]

The edits make it a much better film, but I still can't bare to watch the last film. Any edit of the third film is still polishing a turd. Sad because I really want to like it but can't.

[@brandonface917]

These films could have been so much more if studios don't look for that quick dollar. Tolkien's work deserves as much love and care than it got. This mindset studios have has only gotten worse. Rings of Power is a prime example of it

[@FlackNCoke]

Guillermo Del Toro’s Hobbit will forever be remembered as one of the great pieces of never made media. Somewhere in the multiverse it exists and it’s a masterpiece, along with Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man 4 and David Lynch’s Return of the Jedi.

[@sporkjuice]

don't forget Jodorowsky's Dune!

[@danielcarrilho5217]

You forgot Jodorowsky's Dune

[@karlwschipul5079]

meh, you might be right, but why would Raimi's Spiderman 4 be any better than 3? How do we know it would not be worse? 3 was clearly not as good as 2.

[@FlackNCoke]

@@karlwschipul5079 3 was destroyed by studio meddling. One of the reasons 4 got canceled was Raimi refused to let them mess with his movie again and specifically wanted to end his run on Spider-Man on a high as “an apology to the fans for Spider-Man 3.”

[@SuperMoviemaster21]

@@karlwschipul5079 Personally, I love Spider-Man 3 way More than 2; People really need to understand the difference between story and movie, let alone overall experience with them, for there is always truly more then just one of those elements no matter what no matter how otherwise it may seem

[@jasonschlierman412]

This story is a textbook example of why the studio system as it exists today and modern copyright law have become counterproductive for the creative process. It wasn't always that way (completely), but it's gotten to a very bad place and only getting worse. Something must give at some point. I feel bad for both Del Toro and Jackson. Both were put in bad positions and as much as fans mock "The Hobbit" films, I say they were fantastic when one considers the pains behind the scene that forged them. They are not nearly as good at "The Lord of the Rings" films, but that trilogy had years to be shaped and crafted while "The Hobbit" didn't. It's a miracle that any part of "The Hobbit" is even decent. Further, while I understand why investors wanted it this way, turning "Hobbit" into a trilogy was stupid. It really hurt the films stretching the story out like that. Oh well, at least "Hobbit" is better than "Rings of Power."

[@GothPaoki]

Yes but these ridiculously stupid over the top action scenes were Jackson's idea. He has some fault in that.

[@sampamulenga8242]

Well said. The Hollywood system is totally broken. 8 years on Peter Jackson hasn’t directed a narrative film. I saw behind the scenes footage from The Hobbit. He looked miserable and tired most of the time. It is testament to his directing ability that the films were watchable. The lack of pre production time to polish the script and vfx hurt the Hobbit. All the ingredients were there to make great films. I am just stunned sometimes at the lack of imagination and quality of films coming out of Hollywood.

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

Basically Jason, the Hobbit trilogy is the 2010's version of the prequel trilogy for Star Wars. Anew trilogy that is just eh in quality and yet beats the next installment by miles

[@larrote6467]

it doesn't matter how hard they had it (as if you were talking about poor people anyways) what matters is that the films are nor very good, regardless.

[@JordanSmith-tl4pu]

saidas well we'llllew herewreh HereereH

[@sajunbecker3275]

I've thought about it quite a lot over the last twelve years and I still mourn the Guillermo del Toro Hobbit films we never got. I think del Toro's dark fairy tale sensibilities in partnership with the more grounded and earthy influence of John Howe and Alan Lee and a loving, practical effects-heavy production from WETA would have created something warm, timeless, and magical. I know the Hobbit trilogy we got was directed under duress from Jackson in unideal circumstances but those movies still haven't grown on me and they're pretty soulless and hollow. Amazon's The Rings of Power is (so far) even less charming than the version of The Hobbit we got. I think the conditions that allowed The Lord of the Rings trilogy to happen the way it did simply don't exist anymore, although I've seen flickers of that magic in projects like The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance, Dune (2021), and The Northman.

[@coltenhubbard163]

I’ve been so upset over the cancellation of the Dark Crystal. It was literally the most well done piece of fantasy I’d ever seen since lord of the rings..

[@adventuresinportland3032]

I mourn for the GT Hobbit films that could have been. When I heard he was first hired to do it I was psyched having just seen Pan's Labyrinth thinking he's the perfect director that can match Jackson's quality but bring his own flavor to it. I love Peter Jackson and I don't blame him for what happened, but the hobbit is just so messy compared to TLOTR. Don't get me wrong, it's impressive what was achieved considering the circumstance, but I don't find myself wanting to go back and re-watch as I do with TLOTR to this day.

[@VeteranVandal]

It's very simple: there simply wasn't enough time for a project the size it'd need to be to make a great movie or two great movies.

[@rafaelc.c.]

They still ended up pretty well. Not perfect, for they have their big bunch of wrong decisions, but very good I'd say (and the general consensus). It's incredible Peter Jackson and his team managed to pull it out so decently through the hardship.

[@knightinashes6934]

I guess someone just watched the new Mr. Sunday Movies video

[@ThatOrangeGhost]

I feel he does this all the time anytime a KZbinr makes a video he comes in a week later with the same topic

[@ThatOrangeGhost]

Also great to see a Great mate in the wild (I forgot what we call ourselves it’s too silly for me to remember)

[@brettc6132]

More like they both know ppl will be watching rings of power

[@Whiteythereaper]

Lmao I was gonna say the same

[@justinbell8510]

Me lol

[@cottonfluff1317]

Dang, greedy studios hit once again in the gut of creativity, prioritizing money over the humans who make the magic happen.

[@Tapionski]

The hobbit needed to be one movie. Adapted from the book without having to tie it to the original trilogy.

[@tinlunlau1]

Ten years ago, I got to work with Guillermo del Toro for Pacific Rim and he's been amazing to hang out with. What's mind blowing to me is that it's almost 11 years since we started work on Pacific Rim. Not sure if this was shortly after the whole Hobbit blunder though. Didn't really want to mention it in front of the guy if he was still sad about it.

[@te9591]

Animator?

[@tinlunlau1]

@@te9591 background actor

[@myfuneralismytimetoshine]

To be honest you can see hints of De Toro's style, tone and aesthetic in the first movie. That is why is the best out of the three.

[@DeCapitanOG]

And it's completely garbage

[@DaimonAnimations]

They just said they rewrite scrapped anything Del Toro had.

[@jetuber]

It's by far the worst of the three.

[@vermilion7777]

I'm glad De Toto left the project. I like him, but his style is too iconic for Tolkiens work. Would be like if TIm Burton would make The Hobbit.

[@airixxxx]

@@jetuber First time I heard that one.

[@Han-rw9ev]

I kind of wish Jackson and his people had time to prepare for the Hobbit in the same way they were able to do with Lord of the Rings. Taking over after Del Toro left couldn't have been easy. In the end we ended up with a sort of Del Toro/Jackson hybrid. Throw in the studio interference/'suggestions' and Jackson's health issues at the time, it's kind of amazing the movies turned out the way they did.

[@isaacthemonke233]

I remember learning about how Del Toro was on board with a Wind in the Willows adaption some time in 2003 (By Disney) It was gonna be stylized fully cg characters against a live action set and interacting with live actors Production was going well until one of the executives asked Del Toro to "modernize the characters" as in giving Mr Toad a skateboard and having say stuff like "radical dude" and other modern (then early-2000s) stuff To which Del Toro saw cringe and left

[@BOSS.Productions]

3 months instead of 4 years to prepare for Peter. He did an amazing job given these circumstances. I could only imagine how much better the Hobbit wound have been with years of more prep. Thx for the informative vid 👍

[@kr4ftt]

I Introduced my gf to the LotR history by watching with her the first hobbit movie, then explaining what happened to the next two movies, then going into the LotR trilogy, because god damn I will not have that Legolas in my Hobbit movie

[@NimbusAngelo]

You should watch the M4 Hobbit fan edit for a great version of the hobbit. Legolas only appears when he finds the dwarves in Mirkwood. It's the version I watch when I do my marathon.

[@luisn642]

@@NimbusAngelo Where can I find that

[@Richard_Nickerson]

Legolas is the least of the bad additions. Tauriel and her Dwarf love, the overly excessive waste of time that was essentially everything in Erebor (though the whole Smaug chase sequence and the terrible gold CGI at the very end of Desolation stands out particularly), and all the Alfrid BS. THESE are the real issues. Legolas has always done crazy things... the way he gets on his horse in TTT in the Warg battle scene, sliding down the stairs at Helm's Deep, the whole Oliphaunt thing. Legolas isn't above being unrealistic.

[@lucaskp16]

@@NimbusAngelo thank you for this downloading it now. looks amazing

[@witchhazel4135]

@@lucaskp16 Dang! Where did he tell you to find it? His reply isn't showing up for me.

[@HisameArtwork]

Del Toro is so good at fantasy, no matter what he would do it would be amazing!

[@daweedpotrawa3042]

I definitely recommend The M4 book edit of the hobbit. Atleast PJs version had most of all scenes of the book in the movies and with a compelling edit of over 4 hours you get one movie experience that is atleast storywise a faithful adaptation of the novel

[@laurencelikestopgun]

One of the biggest tragic in movie history is we never got to see Del Toro version of the Hobbit

[@GreenFalcon926]

Just imagine how amazing these movies could have been if Jackson had more time. Del Toro's vision would have been epic too.

[@graefx]

I still wonder what a more Del Toro faerie tale take on the Hobbit would have been like. Ian McShane as Thorin maybe. More in camera practical effects. Could have been special

[@dihyaneverforget5163]

it's a double edge sword, studio interference can be a good thing sometimes... the last two season of GOT are a result of giving total creative freedom to the show runners.

[@FreaquedeMusique]

Fantastic video!! Tragic, tragic tragic story :(((

[@davidhoracek6758]

What's ironic is that the studios would have made a lot more money if only they gave Jackson the time to make these movies correctly. The low quality clearly hurt sales and revenue, a perfect example of how greed can cost you.

[@creategreatness8823]

There is an alternate reality where a Hobbit movie was made BEFORE The Lord of the Rings Trilogy...and it was awesome.

[@jmcmontanheiro]

I personally love the movies because PJ and the actors are fantastic. But I do see a lot of issues and some subplots could have been cut entirely, while others could have had better conclusions.

[@strombolibones]

Shameless plug for my Hobbit edit "The Battle of the Five Edits"

[@ian_b]

For me, his visual style is second to none. I've never been so bowled over by costume and colour as by his Crimson Peak. I would love to have seen (literally) his take on The Hobbit.

[@Xxpavement_angelxX]

This is actually heartbreaking to listen to whyyy whyyyy

[@Craxin01]

The shortest story in the series get a three-movie treatment with SOOO much bloat while the other three are each constrained to one film each. They did a good job within the constraints of three individual movies for the main Lord of the Rings books (technically 6), but did a poor job stretching one story into three.

[@tylerbrown5526]

I am so sad we never got to see his vision. He described his wargs as 'beautiful.' It would've been different, but it would've been great.

[@thedon-e6514]

My take away from this is that if not for all the rights issues, Peter Jackson would have started with the hobbit and then LOTR. Imagine this with the love care and attention the LOTR trilogy got - now that’s the best of all timelines!

[@WibblyWobbly]

I dont think hobbit was bad, its just wasnt great. Anyway I loved seeing same characters, glad that it was basically same crew. I was crying my face off at the theatre at the words "in the hole in the ground there lived a hobbit". I also can imagine how upset i would be at del toro version with considerably changed desighn and spirit of a franchise.

[@Food4thought1234]

Honestly they should do it now. I mean, I don’t think the general public even remember The Hobbit movie anyway. The fans wouldn’t be mad about another remake for once, LOL

[@skjaldulfr]

I wish we had that practical Azog. That looks so much better.

[@SamuelMorales1]

Best video yet! Do one on Duel of the Fates

[@teammartin95]

Remember when we were all expecting Peter Jackson's Hobbit to be a masterpiece? Those were good times.

[@tigadirt]

Ouch. That hit right in the feels. I never looked into why they ended up being such disappointing films. I had instead simply thought he hacked them together as a mere cash grab. Now i'm nearly tearing up to know they could of been amazing.

[@lutilda]

I SO wish we would have gotten the Del Toro version! It would have been SO wonderful!

[@Backwoodsandblades]

Bravo and thank you for the information. I love Tolkein and his stories. A shame that greed and politics got into "The Hobbit, " but that is show "business."

[@mrc4912]

It came down to the sad reality of 'doing battle with the army you have, not the one you wish you had'.....

[@stevezilla99]

The Hobbit was a very enjoyable trilogy. Loved every minute.

[@namenotfound8747]

Overtime Hobbit has grown on me. I did not feel that way when it came out though.

[@HarvestStore]

Great video.

[@creaturalshade7054]

I think this was my original timeline... The world where the Hobbit was directed by Guillermo del Toro.

[@LinoWalker]

Another great video! But I just don't understand - why didn't Guillermo return after the business with the studios was settled? He could have finished his vision for the films in that time...

[@oliverhardy9464]

I think he had other projects and I've heard that he wanted to spend more time with his daughter. With the studio pushing for 3 films instead of 2 that would have been impossible for him. He basically didn't want to miss his daughter's childhood

[@LinoWalker]

@oliverhardy9464 Hmmm... Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good reason! In any case, I don't think ANYONE could have made a good trilogy out of the Hobbit, especially on such a tight deadline.

[@billc5433]

This is in my list of "movies that I wish we could see".

[@Shark0115]

Nice Rocko's Modern Life reference there at the end

[@JossCard42]

I was stoked when the Fellowship came out because I thought that I might get to see them adapt the Hobbit, which was my favorite book growing up. It makes me sad that the Rankin & Bass animated feature is still the best adaptation of the Hobbit out there.

[@NimbusAngelo]

The M4 hobbit fan edit is a great single film version of the hobbit! I watch it for my Middle-Earth marathon, and I highly recommend it!

[@samsampier7147]

That Rankin & Bass film still holds up today. The only part I dread watching is the Battle of the Five Armies. I was hoping the Jackson version would be better and I was disappointed.

[@whatsinthebox9732]

I’ve learned to love the Hobbit trilogy (extended) for what it is. I find much joy in it as a Tolkien fan. But unlike the LotR trilogy there are some real blunders. Oh what could have been if Jackson had more time

[@guusama3404]

very nice...still great movies...

[@clarisd]

Final answer, NO! While PJ and all others pulled hard in that three months, and many say it's not as good? Well for myself alone perhaps 😌 the films handed me the same taste, favor and tone as the first trilogy had. Although the changes in both were expected, I found a reconnection to the entire lore. A rekindled interest to submerge myself into those realms again and again. What was added or left did not determine my connection to the original works. At base the single most import aspects were elevated in the friendships that were bathed in loyalty. Had there been a loss in that core component, than all the films would have been an epic waste all-round. PJ saved these films through understanding at the core was those deep and very human desires of loyalties.

[@nitsugazemag]

If only studios had more backbone to seek quality instead of quantity allow adequate time and insure the director’s vision wasn’t compromised, but that’s Hollywood for you 😒. With what Guillermo was able to do with his prior films like Hellboy 2 and his critically beloved Pan’s Labyrinth, his vision for The Hobbit would have been a feat to see. Peter Jackson is an incredible visionary who gave us the Lord of the Rings trilogy, a cinematic behemoth and masterpieces, but he had the allotted time to make that happen. It’s a shame that behind-the-scenes politics, court drama, and studio interference made The Hobbit trilogy subpar. I didn’t hate it, but there were numerous baffling things that felt that the filmmaker was stretching thin the adaptation of a single book. They were entertaining, to say the least, but lacking the power Peter Jackson’s previous outing to middle earth had with spades.

[@TheBrokenSword]

What I would give to see that Del Toro version of The Hobbit 😢 Although, I would never say no to them just starting it again with him again and giving us another attempt!! 😂

[@rhozenheyo9045]

This explains a lot of things that happened in the Film.

[@3allz]

Such a shame it turned out like this. More respect to Jackson though, was unaware how supportive he was of Del Toro and I knew he was basically handed an impossible job with 0 time.

[@elichilton7031]

It is too bad that we did not get the Guillermo Del Toro Hobbit films, however, we did get Pacific Rim and The Shape of Water.

[@Novastar.SaberCombat]

I remember closely following the entire situation when everything was still in the early stages of preparation, and GdT was going to direct while PJ prepped, experimented with 3D cameras, and produced. Poor PJ. 😓 He must have felt a HUGE amount of stress and exhaustion. "The Hobbit" was visually gorgeous, but it was clear how terrible the storytelling ended up. "Rings of Power" obviously did NOT heed the warnings. 🤮

[@kasession]

I never thought there was enough material to make 'The Hobbit' a trilogy!!!

[@ballsthatclank]

thank heavens the original trilogy was created before amazon

[@StonedHunter]

It's so sad to see what happened to the movies vs what they would have been. Del Toro would have done a much better job of merging the tones of Hobbit and LOTR than poor Jackson ended up doing.

[@TROONTRON]

No fucking way would del toro be able to make anything even watchable in the time Jackson got to create it. I hate Hollywood so much

[@D0MiN0ChAn]

I mean, even Jackson himself would have done a much better job if he had gotten more time.

[@StonedHunter]

@@D0MiN0ChAn while true, Jackson himself was on record saying he didn't want to direct Hobbit out of fear it'd end up with too much of LOTR's tone to it (which is what ended up happening and would have still been a problem with more time). Del Toro is a little better at balancing whimsy with darker tones, so I think when trying to balance the tone of the Hobbit and LOTR he was the best choice.

[@mintspears6714]

THE HOBBIT FILMS ARE GOOD MOVIES AND I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL that said, they are very flawed and I often fantasize on what Del Toros vision would have looked like. I still really enjoy what we got though. The first film especially really captures alot of the feeling I got reading the first few chapters of the book.

[@triconcert]

I loved those Hobbit movies! End of text.

[@thomasbowman3579]

I will NEVER get over this. EVER.

[@Squishcat]

i still love the hobbit films, flaws and all, but it is really unfortunate what happened behind the scenes that resulted in the half baked-ness of the final films :(

[@jasonblalock4429]

I've never bought that line about Del Toro voluntarily walking away, and then the production just happened to get the greenlight a few weeks later. That timing sounds so suspicious. But then, SO MANY of the official stories about WTF happened with these movies sound sus. Not to mention how utterly miserable Jackson looks in all the docu footage. I really hope we get the actual story someday.

[@stephenstewart2280]

The real reason for del Toro walking from 'The Hobbit' was because MGM always wanted Peter Jackson back in the director's chair and didn't like the idea of del Toro helming their crown jewel project, they thought his films were odd and strange and uncommercial, not understanding why Jackson had handpicked him in the first place.. The administrators running MGM at the time, steering it through it's bankruptcy process, did not come from the movie business, the guy at the top used to run Krispy Kreme or something like that... every time Peter Jackson and Warner Bros needed MGM to sign off on something relating to 'The Hobbit', the answer was always the same, "we'll get back to you in a month"... it was an impossibly frustrating and unnecessarily laborious task to get MGM to agree to anything. WB even tried to buy MGM's rights to 'The Hobbit' from them (for a very substantial sum) to get things moving quicker, but MGM refused to sell them. del Toro was fully aware of all of this as it was happening, and that is why he took the very painful decision to leave... falling on his sword out of frustration at the continued lack of a greenlight and also so it could go forward with someone who would be able to get things moving quicker with the 'suits' at MGM. It's no coincidence that when Jackson started negotiating to direct a mere month after del Toro left that the wheels started turning very, very quickly indeed. I would have loved to have seen del Toro's 'Hobbit'...it was going to be two films and two alone, shot in glorious 35mm (with a production schedule of over 300 shooting days!), no HFR or 3D, with as much in-camera physicality as could be achieved practically with sets, locations, creatures, etc. The scripts were more or less done, everything was designed, all the big setpiece sequences were planned and pre-viz'd, locations scouted and chosen, and a casting list already drawn up. del Toro himself said that once the greenlight was given, they were "very, very prepared" to hit the ground running immediately... but he ultimately left because he knew that while he was at the helm, MGM would continue dragging their feet until they got what they wanted... Peter Jackson back in the director's chair... and they got him. Jackson himself didn't want to do it especially, but WB threatened him that if he didn't, they would shut the project down, write off the pre-production costs already incurred, and all the NZ crew members relying on the project for their livelihoods would be out of a job... so P.J. did it for them out of obligation, not any kind of passion for the project... and it shows onscreen; 'The Hobbit' films lack the overall soul of the LOTR trilogy... Jackson made 'The Hobbit' because he HAD to, he made LOTR because he WANTED to, that's the big difference. Bloody studio politics.

[@destinyhntr]

@@stephenstewart2280 Honestly if I had already put in all the work, I would have let Peter Jackson say he directed it so the dumb suits let it through, but then had Toro direct it anyway with a little input from Jackson at the most. After all, the project was already prepared to go

[@starleaf2795]

@@stephenstewart2280 wow... i've never heard this information before, but it explains everything... it's so, so SO SAD... guillermo and peter were both the victims of the studio and now i finally respect and understand what they had to do. guiilermo's motivations for leaving never made sense to me but this explains it... it's just so upsetting though...

[@oliverhardy9464]

​@@starleaf2795 I've also heard that Del Toro had creative differences with the studio. He only wanted 1 or 2 films but the studio pushed for 3. And from what I've heard he was also worried that with 3 films the project would take too much time, so he wouldn't be able to see his daughter growing up

[@hunsler1006]

Jackson gets nothing but stick for the hobbit when in reality, it's testament to his talent and passion the films were made at all, let alone half as good as they were

[@sathdk79]

A fan for decades now, I just realized Bilbo and Gandalf blowing smoke rings was foreshadowing the ring he would find in the goblin tunnels.

[@roberttreacy8271]

Unpopular opinion: I enjoy The Hobbit films. They’re not as good as the LOTR trilogy, but I still like them.

[@frankiekl87]

Sorry no

[@Novusod]

Most likely there was a backroom dealing that forced Del Toro out. The investors wanted a guaranteed hit on their hands so they would only finance the studio and the production if Jackson was the director. Notice how fast the movie got green lit as soon as Jackson became the director. When it was Del Toro the studio was like "well maybe we will do movie in the future, but not soon." Then weeks after Jackson takes over the studio does a complete 180 green lights the film and demands the movies start production immediately. Such a turnaround would not happen unless the investors will demanding Jackson be the director behind the scenes. Since they were the ones paying for the movie they got what they wanted. It was Jackson or bust.

[@lazyartiste_2357]

True. Greed indeed destroys art

[@Deadlift4chips]

Man is beyond top notch as a director.

[@arieltd78]

Be that as it may, I loved the movies... they were a great ADAPTATIOM of the original novel, which I love dearly.

[@NanoScream]

Del Toro should have stayed but I also understand his reasoning for leaving. It wasn't his fault.

[@teddyfurstman1997]

Del Toro is a true Master. The Hobot movies are nowhere near as iconic as the LOTR trilogy. They are not bad, just lacking what made the Movies strong.

[@Account.for.Comment]

The Hobbit movies are bloated, one great movie is enough. Three bloated movies are too much. LOTR, are long, but they are superbly edited. Even the Extended Edition, had little fat.

[@sorenjelik]

Well I really like what Peter did together with who knows how many strong, but I admit if we had a chance to see it all done with Del Toro that would be totally different experience , unforgettable fire...I like atmosphere he creates, I like his monsters and how he slowly approached do dark side in Pan's Labyrinth which is work of art and yet I still didn't see of him what I have been expected in the past. Let's hope we will see it in the future. He is proven master chief of dark realm and monsters. We need to see him in front of really big Dark project !

[@davidcoleyart5526]

Still so disappointed this never got made.

[@GenghisClaus]

Rings of Power makes the Hobbit look like a masterpiece.

[@Luke_Go]

Both the Hobbit and Rings of Power are great examples how studios and inexperienced stakeholders (i.e. Simon Tolkien) ruined a great franchise

[@papalaz4444244]

The Hobbit films are like Shakespeare compared to Rings of Fanfic.

[@markgrehan3726]

I thought Simon Tolkien was for the film whilst his Dad was the one causing problems.

[@jasonluery1111]

The recent director influence in a creator’s material shows it’s better to defer to a production that makes envisioning the creator’s story the primary goal above the director’s tricks.

[@dmen0563]

I sort of admire the fact these movies were not even worse than they ended up being under the circumstances. I think these movies can really be great if they re edit them down to 2 movies

[@stupidfathobbit4262]

Not sure about anyone else but Rings of Power makes the Hobbit look like Lord of the Rings. In retrospect The Hobbit wasn’t bad it had its moments wasn’t breathtaking as LOTR but nearly not as bad at what they have done to Tolkien’s work now.

[@mrgreatbigmoose]

Should Guillermo Del Toro have stayed? No. He needed sanity in his life. Would the world have loved to see Guillermo Del Toro stay? Absolutely yes! He had passion and had invested the preparation that history did not get to see. Thanks Nerdstalgic!

[@SG_TRAW]

Love these movies, even though they were made in such a rush. Way better than anything that marvel has been putting out recently

[@theimaginist3310]

I think it’s speaks to what a great director Peter Jackson is that The Hobbit films, while far from perfect, are still as watchable as they are. They’re still much better than most of the movies we’ve gotten lately.

[@JetFalco]

Wait.... the Hobbit movies weren't "good?" I thought they were frickin' fantastic.

[@YodaOnABender]

I don't care what anyone says, I love the Hobbit movies. Would they have been better if Guillermo/Jackson were left alone instead of being given stupid limitations and deadlines? Obviously. But thanks to Jackson working himself nearly to death (literally), the movies still rank in my top three trilogies of all time

[@Irodeapentaceratopstoragnorok]

I wonder if one day we'll get a documentary about Del Toro's version, like "Jodorowsky's Dune"

[@spencen686]

What scene is 5:16 from with the other version of Azog? Is this from the extended edition? I can’t seem to find it anywhere