Netrunner Timing Structures - Paid Abilities, Priority, and Turns - Android: Netrunner

[@KrorNR]

Woohoo! Great video! I literally only have the most minor of nitpicks and they're probably not even that important, but I did say I would go at it. 14:09 - Actions are specifically a paid ability that STARTS with a click cost. The bioroid paid ability "Lose click: Break a subroutine" contains click but because it starts with "Lose" it is not an action. 40:18 thomasapplegate4370 has it right. "When your turn ends" and "When your discard phase ends" have the same timing. 46:23 Not a correction, but a note: The After-discard PAW is more often used by your opponent for things like double dipping on once-per-turn effects, but only relevant when it might change discard choice. 1:15:50 There is one last thing that happens during the run ends phase: If the run didn't reach the stage where the run is declared successful (5a) and the server still exists (No spin doctor popping or similar) the run is declared unsuccessful. Not a huge amount of relevance to it but Always Have a Backup Plan does exist. There's also a few moments early in the video where information is only half-given (like with which paid ability windows you can rez/score in) but it is properly fleshed out later in the relevant section, so I'll forgive that :P Once more, Great job with this one!

[@MetropoleGrid]

I was nervously but excitedly waiting for your response Kror. Thanks so much for taking the time to leave the detailed feedback. Cheers!

[@retronymph]

As a magic rules nerd, the specific distinctions paid to the differences between NR and Magic were handy. Great explanation 👍

[@leonguy1164]

So excited for this, i'm always paranoid i'm not playing 'politely' and offering actions when i should, thanks for the ever brilliant content.

[@alisons_here]

40:18 "When your discard phase ends" and "When your turn ends" are, if I'm reading correctly, actually the exact same timing. Comp Rules 5.6.3.e reads "The Corp’s turn formally ends. Conditions related to the turn or discard phase ending are met. " The reason some cards talk about "when your discard phase ends" is to make it more clear that their effects happen after discarding to hand size (Restoring Humanity can get a credit from a card that you discarded to hand size, and Chameleon/The Class Act can safely put you above the hand size limit without needing to discard)

[@MetropoleGrid]

Yo, huge. Thank you for pointing that out! Kror cited your response in the pinned comment, so I'm hoping that correction will be noted.

[@diegosantos8687]

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk about this amazing games. Your channel became my reference #1 to learn Netrunner. It's inspiring to see how much you are pationate about it and you inspire me to learn more and more about the game!

[@AlexMonas]

I'm so glad you're helping with focused educational content. Only recently I had a friend over whom I taught Netrunner that day. And we had a blast, but I realized that I dont know some of these details, so when he asked how Nico Campaign works exactly and why I can first rez and then start my turn, I was like... So this is highly appreciated. Thank you

[@paxgamer3003]

Simply amazing content. You are the GOAT of Netrunner creators, keeping the flame of this game alive. You are the ultimate resource for newbies like me and veteran alike.

[@willn9568]

This is a fantastic video and such a helpful and important contribution to the community. Keep churning out amazing content!

[@haloslippin6894]

Nice work! What a great video for a semi-noob. I’m actually glad I didn’t watch this when I was a total noob because it might have scared me away 😂

[@Lordpitcher_cl]

Great episode! Helps me explain better timing structures. I learned a lot. Thank you.

[@Baa_Ram_Wu]

Incredible stuff Andrej!! Also today I learnt that I have been playing around Marrow incorrectly (with exactly cards like Hybrid and Longevity!) so very glad to have that corrected!!

[@jonnmostovoy2406]

Ah, the between turns phase. As Garfield intended :D. Jokes aside, beautiful game, thanks for the video!

[@OGBaxder]

This helps clear up a question I've asked on GLC about Steelskin essentially preventing damage, which I was told it does not. Considering that damage would occur when the corp has priority, it makes more sense to me now. Steelskin's ability would have to fire when the runner has received priority back, at which point they've already received the damage and may be flatlined. Good stuff!

[@MetropoleGrid]

Hey Jason! Steelskin Scarring does not actually interact with priority in any notable way. Luckily, it's much simpler: The rules simply state: *"The Runner is flatlined immediately if they suffer more damage than they have cards in their grip."* And that's it. If the runner has two cards in their grip and they suffer three net damage, they have suffered more damage than they have cards in their grip, and the are *immediately* flatlined. The game is over. It does not matter if any amount of those cards were Steelskin Scarrings, because the game is immediately ended before any conditional abilities could possibly resolve. However, true damage *prevention* abilities, like Caldera or Heartbeat, do resolve before any damage is actually suffered. Prevention effects always fire before their targeted effect resolves. Therefore the Runner could pay three credits with Caldera to prevent at least one of the net damage, and now survive. They would suffer only two damage, the game wouldn't end immediately, and any Steelskins in hand would now fire. The big takeaway here is that the game is over as soon as it's over. As a similar exmaple, the game is immediately over if either player has seven or more points of agendas in their score area. Imagine a Runner runs the HQ of Jinteki: Personal Evolution while holding no cards in their grip. They have already stolen six points. They breach HQ and steal a House of Knives. Now, Personal Evolution states that the Runner must suffer a net damage whenever an agenda is scored or stolen. That single point of net damage will flatline the Runner that is holding no cards in their grip. However, when the Runner steals an agenda, it is *first* added to their score area and *then* any conditional abilities fires. That means the Runner first has seven points in their score area, and the game ends immediately. The pending net damage does not fire, as the game is over. The Runner is not flatlined. The Runner wins. (There's a very similar example in how the Corporation can not forfeit Divested Trust to prevent the Runner from stealing the game winning agenda. The game is simply over once the winning agenda is stolen.)

[@KevinTame]

This video is a gift to the community! Thanks for doing this.

[@MetropoleGrid]

Thanks Kevin. That's very kind!

[@Toluvel]

Awesome stuff, thanks so much for this!!

[@ronja1378]

Thank you- a fantastic guide you made there! Greetings from Poland :))

[@MetropoleGrid]

Cześć! Glad you found it useful! Cheers!

[@maciejstachowski183]

Nice writeup! I think one thing that was missing (or I didn't catch) are the interrupt abilities - while they're reasonably intuitive, and I think weren't even explicitly included in the rules in pre-NISEI Netrunner, it's worth knowing that eg. "Do 2 net damage" is different from 2x "Do 1 net damage", or that you can use both Bio-Modeled Network and Net Shield on the same bulk of damage.

[@MetropoleGrid]

I went over 'interrupt' abilities in my first take of this video, but that section unfortunately got axed for time. Like you said, I think that they're relatively intuitive - prevention and avoidance effects fire before the ability of the expected effect. That triangular 'interrupt flag' was an addition by NSG, and it is now well codified in the rules (take that, nonsense Zaibatsu Loyalty). Also, always remember that if you prevent a cost from being paid, you haven't paid the cost. So if you avoid a tag when encountering a Funhouse, you haven't 'taken a tag', so you must end the run. The damage shout-out is great! Another often missed rule is that the Runner is flatlined as soon as they take more damage than cards in hand. Those Steelskin Scarrings aren't going to help you at that point.

[@Guyinkgo]

Great Video and Walkthrough! Thank you! 🎉🎉🎉

[@elqord.1118]

Oh man awesome!!! I needed this. This game in desperate need of a regular modern day rulebook.

[@redvex2114]

Just the usual timing stuff of the advanced gameplay. It's nothing compared to the good old Star Wars CCG 😀 (last time i checked rules+FAQ was above 300 pages iirc)

[@MetropoleGrid]

I think a conventional modern day rulebook would be really cool to see. Don't hesitate to send a quick message to the folks at Null Signal Games - while they obviously have a lot going on, I bet they'd be interested to hear what the community would appreciate.

[@Yacovo]

Thanks for the explanation

[@TheRealMGN001]

43:15 I've definitely scored a Breaking News at the start of my turn while playing the 2016 Worlds deck. It was a pretty nasty turn: Closed Accounts, Exchange of Information to shuffle off the Breaking News and get a Global Food Initiative, then a Hard-Hitting News to leave him with 6 tags and no credits. He decided he was done for the night.

[@MetropoleGrid]

I'd bet that you actually scored the Breaking News out during the first paid ability during your Action Phase, after you took both you start of turn triggers and mandatory draw. :p You still have a window there to score an agenda before taking your first click, so there's almost no reason to score out during your Draw Phase before you see your mandatory draw. Those Closed Accounts into Exchange of Information plays were so memorably absurd. Well played.

[@Nerd_Rage255]

Yes!! Been waiting for this one!!

[@RuvenCH]

This was great, thanks!

[@LazyCB]

New 1 hour timing video meta just dropped.

[@MrKikke2]

You are great my man!

[@Ezghoul1]

44:22 How does priority work on this Paid window? Doesnt the Runner have priority since the Corps Turn officially starts after this window? 😅

[@redvex2114]

The PE/Reaper example is a scoring triggered during corp's draw phase (1.b), corp is active player and its beginning of turn effect isn't firing yet, the runner could trigger a draw ability between the first net (PE) and the following 2(Reaper during 1.d). It's a weird scoring window but the agenda could have been advanced due to the runner jumping into some ice during his previous turn (correct me if it's BS, i'm kinda rusty)

[@MetropoleGrid]

Heh. The Corp will always be the active player during this window, as we are within the Corp's Draw Phase. It is the Phase that defines the active player, and hence priority. It is wild that here it is both technically "the Corp's turn", while we haven't yet hit the "the Corp's turn begins" trigger yet. Keep in mind that this distinction can matter - the Jinteki identity Saraswati Mnemonics states that the Corp can not score or rez a card that they Saraswati'd out until 'your next turn begins'. This ability does truly care about "the Corp's turn begins" trigger, and so you won't be able to rez or score Saraswati'd cards during that 1(b) window. So in short, it's easier to associate the active player, and therefore priority, with whoever's Phase we are currently in.

[@SimonDouville1]

I know nothing about netrunner. But i do play Magic. This seems heavier than the stack. I like it.

[@pouchsurfer997]

This video is fantastic! Great work as always. When are we getting the 2h45m extended edition? :D

[@MetropoleGrid]

Cheers Pouch! I have sadly since destroyed the footage in the name of hard drive space... I got half an hour into editing the thing before realizing what I had built.

[@mudskipper1234]

Great work

[@RyokoYoichi]

Amazing video 👏

[@marcob-225]

very usefull video for a noob like me! About Clot discussion: Does the Corp need to announce he is going to score after putting last advancement? I mean: can the Corp put last advancement token needed to score, passing priority to the runner, runner doesn't know this is last advancement so do not play Clot giving back the priority to Corp who scores? Thanks

[@Maffenl]

Maybe good idea for corrections: A lot of Boardgame content creators add corrections to their video by adding 'Klingon Subtitles' (that only show in case of corrections) in the places where corrections are needed.

[@fluter27]

Thank you

[@paulremy3083]

Cool video! Do I understand correctly that the corp is able to spend Kusinagi counters after the runner has broken subroutines?

[@MetropoleGrid]

Totally! However, it's important to keep in mind that after the Corporation uses the Project Kusanagi counter within the paid ability window during an encounter, they have to pass priority back to the Runner. The Runner can now simply break the added subroutine. Also, keep in mind that icebreakers implicitly retain strength for the remainder of the current encounter, so the Runner won't have to reboost.

[@paulremy3083]

@@MetropoleGrid that's neat! I was thinking about the interaction between Kusanagi and breakers that break subroutines in bulk. Like MKUltra cost 9 to fully break a vanilla Anansi, 9 to fully break an Anansi with a spent Kusanagi counter if spent before subroutines were broken, 12 to fully break an Anansi with a spent Kusanagi counter if spent after subroutines were broken.

[@SparkSign]

I want one of those timing cards so bad.

[@MetropoleGrid]

I need to dig around more and see how these can be sourced. They're great.

[@tmkfnetrunner]

Are the timing structure reference cards tournament legal? You’re not allowed to bring pre-written notes, are you allowed the rules of the game? 😂

[@PosIntSyndrome]

From the NSG Organized Play Policies: 2.4.2. The only notes players are permitted to have when a match begins are rules references. Additionally, you may always ask a judge about specific rules and the current official card text of any card.

[@MetropoleGrid]

Thanks for digging that ruling up. I worry that I didn't stress that enough in the video - if you have ANY questions regarding timing, just call a Judge. They're around to facilitate a better game experience for everyone.

[@redvex2114]

A bit off topic but i'm skimming through the changes, you can still use icebreaker abilities even if the matching ice type isn't there? eg: Can I increase my Corroder strength while running and there's no barrier on the corp side.

[@xiaat]

Yes, you can use that ability even outside of a run (to duck under 4 credits for Econ Warfare for example). It's just another paid ability. The strength increase will drop off at the next checkpoint (i.e. immediately).

[@redvex2114]

@@xiaat Good to know, my most common use was to dump unused stealth creds into a Net Mercur with something like laundry,sucker and the likes.

[@PosIntSyndrome]

This is a great video, just a minor nitpick: You're misusing the term "checkpoint" slightly. The checkpoint is not "the point in time at which the trigger occurs"; it's a bookkeping step that happens at some point *after* the actual trigger event. The checkpoint checks whether any abilities have met their conditions in the timespan since the last checkpoint, and opens the reaction window and all that. There are all kinds of rules about exactly when checkpoints occur, but I don't don't think we need to get into that here. This does not affect the gameplay correctness of the video, everything happens as you describe it, just wanted to mention it since the term does have a specific meaning which differs from how it was used here. But you don't need to care about that to play the game correctly. :)

[@PosIntSyndrome]

Update after having watched all of it: This is a fantastic video. This community is lucky to have you.

[@MetropoleGrid]

That's totally true! The 'checkpoint' as mentioned in the 'checkpoint rule' is a much older turn of phrase, from long before NSG formalized 'checkpoints' within the rules. Those formalized 'checkpoints' are unfortunately not the same thing at all.

[@miltonfrey7274]

oh boy i love this

[@davidbrunger4172]

The flowchart states that there is a paid ability before every action, not after, so if followed step by step there is no paid ability window between the last action and discarding cards. Have I got this correct? Please can someone point out where the rules say there is a paid ability window between the last action and discarding cards.

[@MetropoleGrid]

I think this is a pretty large pain point in the way the flowchart is displayed! While the flow chart is technically correct (there is a paid ability window before and after every action), it's not a very intuitive conclusion. This is the Action Phase of a Corp's Turn: a) Paid ability window: (P) (R) (S). b) Does the Corp have unspent clicks? i) If no, go to (3). ii) If yes, the Corp takes an action. c) Return to (a). If we walk our way through an entire Action Phase, things look like this: - *First Paid Ability Window* (PAW) - b) is checked. We have *three* unspent clicks. Therefore: - The Corp takes an action. This is *Click One*. - We return to (a) - *Second PAW* - b) is checked. We have *two* unspent clicks. Therefore: - The Corp takes an action. This is *Click Two*. - We return to (a) - *Third PAW* - b) is checked. We have *one* unspent click. Therefore: - The Corp takes an action. This is *Click Three*. - We return to (a) - *Fourth PAW* - b) is checked. We have *no* unspent clicks. Therefore: - We go to our Discard Phase. The Corp took three actions, and four paid ability windows. It totally works, but again, it's not super intuitive the way it's displayed. That's largely because the 'action' is spent at b)ii), which is deeper in the loop than I reckon most people might think it would be. I struggled with this exact issue when prepping for the video, and had to ask the Rules team to explain it to me. I'm hoping that the Action Phase summary will be reworded in the future so that it can be a lot a lot more intuitive to grok. Hopefully that helps. Cheers!

[@staaniach21]

Hmm so I cannot install Chisel from SMC after corp rez the ICE to use Devil Charm and trashed it (for example Tootbolth) I approach Ice, corp Rez Tootbolth I use SMC install Chisel + Devil CHarm an trash it without losing 3cred. That's how I plyed it but now it seems I should install Chisel before rez.

[@redvex2114]

When corp is done doing its rez, you can pop the virus and the hardware kills it when the encounter starts (runner is the active player)? Seems the same as the older sucker+parasite combo (in this case you're not even bothered by surprise purges)

[@cold1ava]

You can because after they rez the ice they must pass priority in the paid ability window back to you allowing you to do that before it closes and you move on to encounter.

[@staaniach21]

@@cold1ava Thanks KZbin didn't show me that you've already anwsered and I've spam this question on GLC also ahah

[@wissen5410]

Is there a side deck in netrunner ?

[@GameOfDroids52]

Nope. Decklists remain the same for the entirety of tournaments. But there is the shaper Ayla, that has a side board like ability.

[@wissen5410]

@@GameOfDroids52 why is there so side bored I mean would this not make the game just better

[@MetropoleGrid]

I think the ability to sideboard would detract from the game. The current card pool contains a handful of incredibly potent tech cards that can produce one-sided matchups if they are appropriately deployed. Is the Runner playing a tag-me archetype? That archetype simply can't exist if every NBN deck has sideboard access to Market Forces or Shipment from Vladisibirsk. Is the Corp playing any strategy that cares about tags? Too bad the Runner sideboarded in Citadel Sanctuary, Misdirection, and No Free Lunch. Is the Runner a Criminal with no program recursion? Best of luck with the Trojan Horses and ZATO City Grids. There would definitely be some interesting decisions regarding which sideboard cards you'd want to include, but I think overall you'd simply see a less interesting game.

[@PosIntSyndrome]

​@@wissen5410 Aside from value judgements around whether you think it's good for the game or not, the fact that we don't play best of X type matches in tournaments means sideboarding doesn't slot into the tournament structure in an obvious way. You play your one game with a given deck against a particular opponent and then you're done. You'd have to call your shot before that one game, introducing additional issues like not actually knowing what deck they're playing yet. (Do you get to see their ID? Do you get to see the rest of their decklist? Currently, decklists are open in the top cut of tournaments, but not during swiss.) It would also take additional time. Rounds are already 65 minutes long; adding sideboarding for two separate decks to that would at least add a few more minutes. But also as Andrej already said, it's a game with a lot of powerful silver bullet type cards and quite potent tutoring, especially on the runner side. Sideboarding would heavily skew the focus of the game towards those cards, rather than their inclusion in a deck being a meta call where you have to weigh the benefit of the tech card in certain matchups against it being a dead draw in others.

[@paxgamer3003]

So you can use paid ability, rez, and/or score agenda all in the same window, but not in that specific order? (P) (R) (S)

[@MetropoleGrid]

100%. The 'order' is not actually an order, but just a designation of what types of paid abilities you can perform in that given window. You can perform as many as you want, in whatever order you want.

[@paxgamer3003]

@@MetropoleGrid I finally got a couple of decks onto the table Monday night and played with a friend. We had a great time. We'll continue exploring netrunner, in no small part thanks to your vids which made all the rules questions clear.

[@asphyxiaVR]

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