Never buy an "FCC Certified" FPV video transmitter. Here's why.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

For those who want a more theoretical discussion of the "terrible range" claim: Free Space Path loss over 200 meters at 5.8 GHz is 90 dB. Assume the antennas used have about 2 dBc gain, for a total of 4 dBc, for a path loss of 90 - 4 = 86 dB. A transmit power of 0.4 mW = -4 dBm. Therefore, the sensitivity of the receiver would have to be -4 - 86= -90 dBm in order to achieve 200 meters range. Well, what a coincidence! The FatShark NexWave V2 modules have receiver sensitivity of -90 dBm! So this completely supports what I said. The 200 meter range is achievable under perfectly optimal conditions only. For example, the antenna used only has 2 dBc gain at 0 degrees elevation. As you go up in elevation relative to the antenna, its gain decreases significantly and its range decreases. Some of the channels transmitted at only 0.2 mW, which is -7 dBm, which is 3 dB less than the maximum transmit power. A transmitter operating on this channel would not be able to achieve 200 meters range. And let's not forget through all of this that we are measuring range down to the absolute bottom of the receiver's sensitivity, at which point the picture will be nearly unusable for flying, even though technically the signal is still coherent.

[@UAVfutures]

this was awesome. loved this video. Why did it take so long for me to see this one??

[@octapc]

UAVfutures Too busy happy flying? ;)

[@drabberfrog]

Thank you so much! Not only do I now know that I really do need to get that license, but also that I can search any consumer electronics product and get all this freely available information.

[@Emzy-87]

Holy crap i should have done more research. I just ordered this setup in a combo fatshark package. So disappointed now. GREAT VIDEO! Glad you cleared this up. Ordering a better VTX now thanks to you!

[@hiwayM9]

Break it open- I bet there is a transistor limiting the output that could be adjusted.... but no modifications allowed per FCC regs. I bet they use a 25mw transmitter governed down to meet the test.

[@BrandonBeans]

Don't need to break it open. Since it's FCC certified, there are photos available online for free. FCCID.io

[@Matttchew5]

I served in the USMC as a Radar Repairman. We pointed our AN/TPS 59 V3 radar directly at a dopplar radar that was about 1000 meters away. We got a phone call and had to stop doing it. We replicated a hurricane. 😁

[@furonwarrior]

Bwahaha

[@hsc1k]

In Germany the 25 mW rule applies, too. Not modifyable. You need a licence to use more power in this frequency band - BUT a drone is considered as an autonomous radio station, that needs a special permission, thus is not covered by the amateur licence.

[@RobinCernyMitSuffix]

well... then just screw it and fly anyways ;)

[@MessingWithCode]

Thanks so much for educationing us on this type of litter othing that could get some not nice stuff if we are not aware of .

[@g.z6161]

when using another calculator to find the EIRP for the tbs unify hv it gives out 30.29089987 dBm using the 1.26 dBic tbs triumph and 0 db connector loss on 0.8W or 800mW mode...compared to this transmiter which has -1.23 dBm.

[@RussellGilder]

I know Bruce at RCModelReviews had discussed prepping folks who are interested for getting out HAM license with a series of videos. I always thought that was a good idea.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Russell Gilder I used HAMstudy.org. The flash-card style suits my way of learning. I already have a good basis in RF fundamentals, so I mostly needed to pick up the HAM-specific stuff.

[@furonwarrior]

Before I had my ham license, I flew with this legal transmitter and it was enough to go 200 feet, but it started getting snowy half way across the field. As a ham, all you need is to put your full name/address/call sign printed on the transmitter and you're legal up to 1.5 KILOWATTS. hahaha Just joking, actually for remote pilots, ham radio operators can only transmit up to 1 watt which is lame, but still more than enough. What sucks is that these Chinese 1.2Ghz transmitters aren't true to their specs... so you'll be transmitting outside the ham bands easily.

[@arfyness]

Doesn't the mW rating, like 25mW, refer to the power the transmitter is delivering to the feed line? I certainly could be wrong but I really thought it is not the ERP value, but the antenna drive power. (Always ERP will be measurably less because even wonderful antennas have loss.) Still though, wow that's crap. ERP of 0.23mW = 0.00023W is far below the ERP of a 25mW transmitter driving even a real crap antenna - you should still achieve 10mW ERP. This though, this is orders of magnitude less.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

That's a great point.

[@DynaSpy]

I sell 10mW 2.4g and 5.8g micro and hidden cams..FCC approved..you'd be lucky to transmit 20m stable enough to FPV.

[@wowiezowiepowie]

interesting that tx power so low and bit out of line with other sections in the regs.... FCC has the Part 15 section that allows for non-registered non-licensed transmission in the AM,FM & TV bands .you are limited to 100mw . they like the unit to be "type approved" or "type certified" meaning they have tested them and they are right and ready to put in service .

[@stevesmusicchannel5310]

I used to use an FCC Tx on an Ultra Micro T-28 Trojan. The effective range was about 100 Yards before it became unreliable. If I used a Directional antenna with a little gain I could get 200+ yards before it started to break up. For what I was doing, and what I believe these small transmitters are designed for, it was fine. I rarely ever had the Trojan more than 50-75 yards from me anyway. With such a small plane and a 5-6 minute flight time, you don't need to go far. Same hols true for these tiny micro FPV racers. How far away do you need to go? I'm never more than 20 yards away from myself with those.. I recommend the Eachine tx01 or tx02 for ultra micro FPV now.. They are true 25mW or true 200mW. The FCC isn't going around bothering people for this yet. If you piss off or walk on any local HAMM operators in your area they will report you, so don't be a pest and you'll be fine..

[@derikdang8829]

another useful info. Thx. Joshua

[@rayikaikin]

this explains why my old nanoQX fpv transmitter is so much worse then the awesome chinese ones we get these days for our whoops. seriously i put it on my whoop after breaking the good one and i can't fly it out of my room

[@BladeScraper]

Yup the Spektrum VA1100 was downright horrid.

[@dr07828]

You said, "This operator is not ham licensed, so they don't know the in's and out's of RF." So.. That is really no reason to hardwire the antenna, because, just because a person has a ham license, doesn't mean they know anything about how the components inside that VTX works electronically speaking. It only means they know the proper way to operate RF equipment. And if someone doesn't have a Ham license, it doesn't mean that they don't know how RF works, or how RF electronics work. Josh, it sounds like you have real knowledge of electronics, and what you have said about your job, suggests a real understanding of RF electronics. You are also Ham licensed, SO YOU KNOW as well as I that there are A LOT of licensed Ham's that don't know JACK. All they do is learn the questions to the test..... The reason I am saying this.. Just to point out that , the reasoning for a hard wired antenna is ridiciulous... One doesn't need a Ham ticket to put a directional antenna on a home wifi router.. If I want to set up an antenna to receive digital TV over the air, I can choose my antenna. If someone buys a CB radio.. (we are going to pretend that it's not an animal house here and that person is going to run 4 watts) That person can choose what antenna they put on their car.... That is silly... I hope you agree.

[@Sethgolas]

A person with an amateur radio license should know enough about regulations to know when they need to look up regulations. They have enough training to understand that there are rules and that it is their responsibility to find out what they are and follow them. And that's what the FCC will hold them responsible for. And yeah, there are some limits on what antennas you could put on your router. There are rules about how much gain you can have.

[@taysfpv7646]

your an awesome dude thanks for the inside info

[@flyt129]

Ah that's interesting. Always wondered why all the FPV guys in the US have a HAM license. Here in Germany we don't need one, but therefore we are limited to max 25mw max. In theory with a HAM license you would be allowed to use more on that band, but not fore FPV. The super old law about all this ameteur RF stuff defines the purpose of using the license to communicate with people and watching the videofeed of your FPV transmitter is not communicating with other people. But I think I will get one anyway. Might get handy when traveling and gaining knwolege is always a good thing. :)

[@flyingby3703]

FlyT wie heißt die "ham license" in deutschland?

[@flyt129]

Patrick Reddy das Pendant in Deutschland wäre die Amateurfunklizenz

[@chrismeyer8315]

Damn it, Why is Germany alwas a step behind!? Where I fly (middle of the Contryside) it would not mater to use 200 or even 600 mW! Why not let me read up and be able to use it in Places THAT ARE SAFE, is'nt that the kind of knowledge you read up for!? Germany always makes me feel like a child...

[@KrotowX]

Try to find such safe place in Germany :D Been in Germany several times and even worked here. It is damn crowded - towns and cities everywhere. Access to large open spaces is pretty restricted too. And quite good chance to get noticed by some vigilant bystander who will not hesitate to report your "suspicious and probably terrorist like" actions to police. RF using monitoring is hard. So very little space to fly with 5" racing/freestyle quads even with 200 mW VTX or be limited in a little spot with 25 mW which is no fun at all. I actually can't imagine how FPV community are doing in Germany now.

[@rdh2059]

Which FCC License is needed? There appear to be several...

[@ronbo422]

Ah ha! I was curious as to why some folks are adamant about not needing a license for 5-8. By law, running one of these, they don't. But

[@dcfpv_3101]

Your videos are awesome

[@Doonit_hard_way_since_65]

First off, you can not convert ERP to actual transmitter output power with that bogus calculator, and the limited variables you inputted. Without knowing the antenna efficiency, and any device insertion losses you are just pissing into the wind. Here is a hint... that is why it is not legal to have a removable antenna on a pt15 device. A High gain antenna would exceed ERP limits for the classification. Just ask HobbyKing how well an argument with the FCC ends. FCC newsletters are showing a significant increase in enforcement actions taken for 12.5, and 5.1cm bands. Someone has to be complaining a whole lot.

[@soraich]

Great info! Keep it up!!

[@mallle18]

thaaank you! super useful stuff :)

[@davidwood8800]

Interesting thanks

[@rpetersonphone]

The DMU spec was per volt. How many volts does the transmitter run on (5v, 12v, vbat)?

[@jasonkass3563]

Thanks Josh, Could you help me by explaining how you knew to at 3 meters vs at 10 meters? It's not a huge difference but aren't we typically traveling further than 3 meters away? Thanks so much for your awesome content!

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Jason Kass the distance to measure at is just a reference standard. As long as the measurement is taken at the same distance every time, the comparison will be valid. I believe the FCC paper specifies @3 meters. RF energy dissipates according to the inverse square law so if you know the energy density at one distance, you can calculate the energy density at any distance.

[@jasonkass3563]

Joshua Bardwell thank you, I'm starting to prepare for my Ham, I'll examine that FCC paperwork and see if I can locate it. I appreciate to super quick response!

[@t395delta]

you're assuming 250mw of power in to a tx = 250mw of signal output, if that were true we wouldn't need to worry about cooling our Tx's

[@exidous6831]

This is not accurate. Most 250mW VTX do transmit at or near 250mW. The power INTO the VTX is where the heat loss is accounted for.

[@t395delta]

So they suck a lot more out the battery then?

[@Vousie]

@@t395delta Yup. Looking at the Eachine TX01's product listing, it is a 25mW VTX, but it draws 200mA of current at 3.3-5v so something like 800mW of power & what's not going into the RF is heat. 600mW VTX's use much more power which is why they can fry themselves if they don't have the cooling of a flying quad.

[@TheDejakal]

So, once upon a time, RF was my jam. Frankly, I didn't do FCC anything, but now I am. At less than 1mw, you'll be lucky a dog barkin doesn't cause snow...

[@Kcy101]

being a licensed ham i agree the details of the video. And people who buy non certified transmitters need to take to time and do i little research, because if they cause interference with police, gov, ect. it can lead to heavy fines.

[@nunyadambidniss]

Is there a way to tell if one might be stepping on police toes? I figure I can just do a scan with my VTX and see if any of the channels are currently in use and pick another channel:)

[@imacracker515]

I think most TX power rating are what you would read if you connected a power meter or spectrum analyzer directly to the SMA connector. Those specs for the FCC certified device are the radiated power yes? So if you were to measure a 200mW TX radiating from the antenna with the same method the FCC testing does it would be MUCH lower than 200mW. So I am not entirely sure this comparison is fair. Correct me if I am mistaken.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Tim Evans you can convert the FCC radiated power back to dBm or mW EIRP which is what I've done.

[@imacracker515]

OK. I think I misunderstood the conversion. I thought it was straight unit conversion. I looked up EIRP and think I understand now. Thanks for the response.

[@Politicallyhomeless957]

Oh my lord one Mw? Great vid

[@luispina4012]

Your good.

[@rogermiller6049]

The problem I having it is getting harder to get non fcc transmitter. Hobbyking is not selling them anymore in the U.S.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

It makes sense to only sell FCC transmitters into an FCC domain.

[@nunyadambidniss]

Banggood, Banggood, Banggood?

[@waterdropmusic]

Very interesting... but why would they restrict this to such a low output and mention a usable range of up to 200meters...home routers have way more power than this......this seems like a setup for a potential failure and to crash your UAS should you be using one of these..... an actual power range up to line of sight would be more logical to allow on a fcc approved device such as this

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Because marketing.

[@Donatillo1961]

Sooo, witch is the best to buy ?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

www.fpvknowitall.com/ultimate-fpv-shopping-list-fpv/#video-transmitters

[@BLINKFEED]

what is the maximum range what u get with these goggles

[@whatabouttheearth]

You dont need any liscensing to transmit to/from your own property, just know the specs.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

There is no exemption for being on your own property. Radio waves don't stay on your property.

[@whatabouttheearth]

@@JoshuaBardwell Yes they can, radio waves dont automatically shoot half way across the world do they? You can easily have devices which only emit signals weak enough to remain on your own property, and some people have hundered or thousands of acres. There are plenty of unregulated radio spectrums because they are low power like FRS (and the government really doesnt give a shit about GMRS regulation) In "Real estate" the owners property ends at a certain level underground or above unless the owner has wjat is called a "real title", amd many people dont have "Real Titles", hence why the government has authority for Eminent Domain, so for most people drones will not technically be om their property anyway

[@furonwarrior]

This is wrong. Radio waves can move infinite across every direction. Transmit poorly on the 5.8Ghz band can effect your neighbor's or even your own wifi.

[@burtpanzer]

Meanwhile, they have systems that can emit half a billion watts... no joke.

[@gewema-makkum]

Ok...very interesting video ..... question to you Joshua ...do you have a Hamradio licence ? if so... 73 de PA0GDW ( Netherlands ) :)

[@PandaFPV]

So what do you guys recommend?

[@furonwarrior]

Get yo ham license.

[@weston3303]

i cant get certified because the nearest test center is 150+ miles away, anything i can do or just use and hope for the best?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

There's no way to get certified without presenting in person at a test center. You have to decide what to do from there.

[@weston3303]

Joshua Bardwell I think we both know the outcome 😂

[@HeilRay]

ROAD TRIIIIP

[@christopherlivingston339]

So how exactly would I go about getting a low level HAM license

[@JoshuaBardwell]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/opzJmKd4g7aWlc0

[@christopherlivingston339]

+Joshua Bardwell thanks for the super quick reponse

[@jasonhowe1697]

This is a receiver only it is an rc remote control unit

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Jason howe I think you commented on the wrong video. This is an FPV video transmitter.

[@jasonhowe1697]

looks like the same hardware used in high end remote control cars prior to viewing this video I saw this used in remote control vehicles, this why the output is so low, because it is a receiver not a transceiver...

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Jason howe This is a video transmitter. This is not a receiver. Look at the product listing, for goodness' sake.

[@Cornflakes691]

what country do these rules apply to?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

FCC is a U.S. entity.

[@mrphucyoo8281]

US but UK is also s**ting on us from a great height too, I can imagine EU will be on side also, would be surprised if Australia was already restricting/reducing freedoms! And just watch, all change again sooner or later!

[@mindaugaszu]

did you ever tried to use gopro composite output as a feed for TS5823 ( shop.gopro.com/accessories/combo-cable/ANCBL-301.html )

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I've never owned a GoPro.

[@AwakeningsDigital]

The go pro's have way too much latency for proper FPV. This is why low res analog cameras are always used.

[@mrphucyoo8281]

That would be like buying anti gun lobby ammo for your ar15!!!!

[@Sam-w9des]

W9DES

[@TheAarowsmith]

Never seen anything in any manual or document saying you need to get a Ham radio license to use FPV. I have a stock FPV transmitter that transmits up to 600 milliwatts. Which is nothing in terms of making any interference problems with anyone anywhere on Planet Earth. Have fun FCC catching me, I always fly away from cities and crowded areas anyways. Everyone's cellphone's generates more interference in one millisecond than FPV does in a lifetime of use. Whether or not you're licensed makes no difference in the safe use of a FPV 5.8ghz transmitter. Because you are transmitting in such low milliwatts, it affects nothing or it will not interfere with anything, period. Having to have a Ham license is extremely Stupid unless you modify your FPV transmitter which no one does. Everything is factory and factory transmitting power will never cause any problems or interference. If in the super rare chance it did, it may effect some rabbit in the woods watching TV? Really ? Power lines will transmit more interference in 5 minutes than anything transmitted from R/C in a lifetime. FCC get into reality and go and get a real job !!!😬

[@PorcupinePunched]

i.imgur.com/bdgvUMM.jpg

[@weatherdevil9029]

They do an awesome job, it's a shame that some manufactures can't care less, like driving on roads, without discipline it becomes dangerous. If you don't know about what problems you could cause using illegal equipment, don't let any ignorance make you feel invincible. It can stop signals being received at listening stations, even briefly, could cause a potential issue that completely ruins months work.

[@Sethgolas]

Cellphones don't generate interference because the are licensed to operate on their bands, and must prove that emissions on other bands are below a certain threshold. While you'll probably get away with it, technically you are causing interference if you are operating near anyone with an armature radio license.

[@weatherdevil9029]

Cellphones don't generate interference because the are licensed to operate on their bands

[@Sethgolas]

I don't sweat spelling too much when I'm on my phone. And no, cell phones are certified by the FCC to emit only on the bands that they are allocated, and to filter all spurious emissions outside those bands to an acceptable level. If they are not capable of acceptable performance, the FCC will not certify them or allow them to be sold. Little hobby devices can get in under the radar, but not cell phones.

[@MatthewTaylor3]

I'm transmitting at ~600 mW at ~5945 MHz. FCC, come find me.

[@Doonit_hard_way_since_65]

That is a fixed ground station to satellite up-link frequency. If you happen to interfere with a protected operator, I guarantee they will file an FCC report. How many does it take, and how serious they get in finding you are open to debate. Poke the wrong bear on the wrong day...

[@furonwarrior]

At least lower the frequency to less than 5925. I have mine at 5.840GHz where it's just above wifi, but still within the ham bands.